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TackLess
09-07-2007, 11:32 AM
I need advice on a bad situation that I'm responsible for. This is that type of action that hurts our community as a whole, and for that I'm sorry.

About 20 years ago, when I was younger and more immature, I thought it'd be cool to have a FFL, so I got one. I had plans to sell to friends, but I was relocated out of California and never followed through on those plans. but bwefore I shoved all the paperwork in a box I did make one purchase using the FFL. It was a surplus imported pistol, nothing too valuable or exotic.

I moved out of state, moved back, moved out again, moved back, and here I am. Somewhere during those moves I lost the box with all my FFL paperwork. I have nothing left, don't evn know the dealer number.

So now I have an unregistered pistol, and unfinished business with Uncle Sam.

What would be the best way for me to close this up and get the pistol registered, or should I just keep it locked up and let my estate deal with it after I'm in the ground and the Feds can't hassle me?


Thanks.

schizrade2
09-07-2007, 11:41 AM
I need advice on a bad situation that I'm responsible for. This is that type of action that hurts our community as a whole, and for that I'm sorry.

About 20 years ago, when I was younger and more immature, I thought it'd be cool to have a FFL, so I got one. I had plans to sell to friends, but I was relocated out of California and never followed through on those plans. but bwefore I shoved all the paperwork in a box I did make one purchase using the FFL. It was a surplus imported pistol, nothing too valuable or exotic.

I moved out of state, moved back, moved out again, moved back, and here I am. Somewhere during those moves I lost the box with all my FFL paperwork. I have nothing left, don't evn know the dealer number.

So now I have an unregistered pistol, and unfinished business with Uncle Sam.

What would be the best way for me to close this up and get the pistol registered, or should I just keep it locked up and let my estate deal with it after I'm in the ground and the Feds can't hassle me?


Thanks.

Most smart FFL's shred/burn papers after 20 years. There is no requirement to keep them past a certain amount of time, and is probably a bad idea anyway.

hoffmang
09-07-2007, 11:41 AM
1. I would expect that you will be able to clean this up, but you need an attorney to do it on your behalf. It should not be exceedingly expensive, but its best handled by a third party who is familiar with CA DOJ and ATF.

Depending on where you're located you should contact one of:
TMLLP - http://www.tmllp.com/ - Long Beach/San Diego
Bruce Colodny - http://www.gunlaw.com/ - San Bernardino/Orange
Don Kilmer - http://www.dklawoffice.com/ - San Jose

-Gene

SemiAutoSam
09-07-2007, 11:43 AM
You might need to do some research on the A and D of the items that came through your hands. DO you still have a valid FFL ?

on the BATF website there will be a place that you are supposed to send all of your records when you stop doing business and or stop having a FFL.

I'm sure I have a address in my old FFL paperwork if no one else can supply it.

metalhead357
09-07-2007, 5:50 PM
You might need to do some research on the A and D of the items that came through your hands. DO you still have a valid FFL ?

on the BATF website there will be a place that you are supposed to send all of your records when you stop doing business and or stop having a FFL.

I'm sure I have a address in my old FFL paperwork if no one else can supply it.


+1000 on the attorney...cant be too careful in these days

And +1000 on Sam's... I always was under the impression all records needed to be kept and "obsolte" and/or closed business ones sent off to ATLANTA......

It WILL be interesting though to see what's what in the long run....not only with you, but for allllllllllllllll the FFL's that lost everything in Katrina....

artherd
09-07-2007, 6:39 PM
I belive after 7 years if you are still IN business, you may shread old records. However if you go OUT of business before then, you must turn over any papers to the fed.

Also, I don't think handguns were even registered 20 yrs ago; check on this too. You are looking for the requirements of the time, not those of today.

Check with an atty.

metalhead357
09-07-2007, 7:17 PM
I belive after 7 years if you are still IN business, you may shread old records. However if you go OUT of business before then, you must turn over any papers to the fed.

Also, I don't think handguns were even registered 20 yrs ago; check on this too. You are looking for the requirements of the time, not those of today.

Check with an atty.

Good point...IIRC the FFL provision for transfers (at least PPT) was Jan '91; and 20 years now would be '87...... and I dont think/recall there was any before specific to handguns:confused: DOJ Had once a statement about voluntary registration due to thier computerized records only going back to ...like 91 with 100% certainty...and were/had been entering handgun registration info from PAPER records back to something like '78....with a lot less than 100% certainty......

SemiAutoSam
09-07-2007, 7:21 PM
The info here should shed some light on how long an FFL still in business must keep records.
Page 5 of the PDF below.
(4) All FFLs shall retain each Form 4473 and 4473(LV) for a period not less than 20 years from
the date of sale or disposition of the firearms. Forms 4473 obtained by FFLs where the NICS
check was initiated, but the sale, delivery, or transfer of the firearm was not completed must be
retained for a period of not less than 5 years.200

And it goes on to say.
(5) Licensees are also required to retain the ATF Form 3310.4, Multiple Sales or Other Disposition
of Pistols and Revolvers, as well as ATF Form 3310.11, Federal Firearms Licensee Theft/Loss
Report, for a period of not less than 5 years.201

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/chapter12.pdf

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/enroll.htm

http://www.usdoj.gov/archive/opd/AppendixC.htm




I belive after 7 years if you are still IN business, you may shread old records. However if you go OUT of business before then, you must turn over any papers to the fed.

Also, I don't think handguns were even registered 20 yrs ago; check on this too. You are looking for the requirements of the time, not those of today.

Check with an atty.