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BOOGIEMAN
01-17-2013, 9:33 AM
:rolleyes:
I am thinking of stashing firearms and ammo in my BOL by burying them. What would be the best way of doing it? Can I just wrap it in plastic and put it in a sealed container and then bury it or do I have to cover the firearms with some kind of grease or something?

paul0660
01-17-2013, 9:40 AM
Glued pvc or abs pipe. Dessicant, and oil the guns like you would use them. If you are storing surplus ammo or cheap Russian new ammo, make sure it works.

Decoligny
01-17-2013, 9:41 AM
Clean and thoroughly lube the firearm.

Wrap firearm in clean cloth.

Place firearm into appropriate length/diameter piece of PVC pipe.

Drop in several packets of dessicant. This will suck the moisture from the air inside the sealed PVC pipe.

Drop in several "oxygen absorbers". Rust is oxidation. No oxygen, no rust.

Using the appropriate PVC glue, attach end caps to PVC pipe.

Bury in ground where you will be able to find it later, but nobody else will stumble across it.

Store ammo in same manner in seperate PVC pipe but leave out the oxygen absorbers. Not sure how the powder will react to a no oxygen environment for a long period of time.

BOOGIEMAN
01-17-2013, 9:50 AM
Yes sir! Thanks PAUL0660 and DECOLIGNY for your input. I am going to Homedepot right now to buy materials.

winnre
01-17-2013, 9:53 AM
Bury deep or satellites can see the temperature differences. I know Customs finds drugs with thermal imagery. Anything that is nearer the surface and is not ground temperature can show up.

paul0660
01-17-2013, 9:59 AM
Bury deep or satellites can see the temperature differences. I know Customs finds drugs with thermal imagery. Anything that is nearer the surface and is not ground temperature can show up.

I think pretty much anything in the ground for a few days is ground temp. There may be other methods to find buried stuff.

I like the idea of using a post hole digger and burying the container vertically.

BOOGIEMAN
01-17-2013, 10:01 AM
Thanks winnre! I also need to buy extra cleaning kit to put away. Wish that the field kits and spare parts that is backordered would arrive already,

Sunday
01-17-2013, 1:44 PM
No one will use their guns when SHTF . Look at the posted reactions now when there is talk of confiscation.

rberger2_99
01-17-2013, 1:48 PM
I do agree with the recommendations on prep to inhibit rust, however, you may want to consider not gluing the ends of the PVC. How will you open it when SHTF??

Rather, prep the firearm, and seal it up in a food saver bag (with a descant and O2 absorber). When you need it, you won't need tools to open the pipe, only a knife to cut the food saver bag.

xgi1991
01-17-2013, 2:34 PM
I do agree with the recommendations on prep to inhibit rust, however, you may want to consider not gluing the ends of the PVC. How will you open it when SHTF??

Rather, prep the firearm, and seal it up in a food saver bag (with a descant and O2 absorber). When you need it, you won't need tools to open the pipe, only a knife to cut the food saver bag.

^this and the same with the ammo, you also might want to consider a Pelican case for the rifle instead of a PVC pipe, with 6 inch PVC you will have to remove the pistol grip off your AR/AK, 8 inch PVC is alot more expensive and by the time you buy all the parts to close it, you could have afforded a Pelican case. When you bury it, as you cammo up the spot, make sure to through some scrap metel around nails/screws what ever, anyone searching with a metel detector will find that stuff and keep moving

Decoligny
01-17-2013, 2:57 PM
Bury deep or satellites can see the temperature differences. I know Customs finds drugs with thermal imagery. Anything that is nearer the surface and is not ground temperature can show up.

The satellites pick up on the temperature difference in the TUNNELS used to smuggle drugs across the border. This is because the tunnels have people, lights, and other things that cause the tunnel to be a different temperature.

Leave the gun and the PVC outside for an hour and it will be the same temp as the ground. This time of year, probably colder.

Southwest Chuck
01-17-2013, 4:50 PM
I do agree with the recommendations on prep to inhibit rust, however, you may want to consider not gluing the ends of the PVC. How will you open it when SHTF??

Rather, prep the firearm, and seal it up in a food saver bag (with a descant and O2 absorber). When you need it, you won't need tools to open the pipe, only a knife to cut the food saver bag.

Naw......Glue / Seal that sucker up. then bury a hacksaw (broken down with extra blades) greased in a vacuumed food saver bag, next to it. :D

Chameleon Loco
01-17-2013, 9:27 PM
There was a bank robber called the Friday night bank robber who hid his money firearms and other supplies in forests and creeks. He made over a few million and was on the run for over a decade before he was caught.

BOOGIEMAN
01-17-2013, 9:38 PM
I think it won't hurt if I combine all of the above suggestions, I can use my wife's Foodsaver thingy, vacuum seal it. then put it inside PVC pipe with dessicants. Then stuff the PVC pipe inside long wooden munition box.

Tripper
01-17-2013, 9:59 PM
^this and the same with the ammo, you also might want to consider a Pelican case for the rifle instead of a PVC pipe, with 6 inch PVC you will have to remove the pistol grip off your AR/AK, 8 inch PVC is alot more expensive and by the time you buy all the parts to close it, you could have afforded a Pelican case. When you bury it, as you cammo up the spot, make sure to through some scrap metel around nails/screws what ever, anyone searching with a metel detector will find that stuff and keep moving

a box of steel shot shotgun shells, cut open and scattered, around the area

Tripper
01-17-2013, 10:10 PM
get the clean out screw in things, i forget what they are actually called, you basically make it a screw top, its still air/water tight too, maybe put a pair of good size cheap pliers next to it.

but first, get a 6 inch pvc, dig the hole big enough for that, put the 6" into the hole, then insert the 4 inch inside the 6, otherwise you have to dig dang near the wholle thing back up to get it out in 10 years, once everything settles it doesnt just slide out of the ground by grabbing the top. increase the outer pvc for whatever pvc you use for the storage part.

I cant see PVC ever exceeding the cost of a rifle size pelican case. not to mention that makes it wider than a pvc. unless you buy it pre cut or something, buy it in 10 or 20 foot lengths and its fairly cheap, then cut to what you want

cheaper than dirt does have some burial grade ziplock type bags btw, but they are like 80 bucks for rifle size as I recall.

BOOGIEMAN
01-17-2013, 11:23 PM
Thanks Tripper but not going to patronize CTD.

.22guy
01-18-2013, 12:04 AM
This is a good read on the subject.

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/wood115.html

the86d
01-18-2013, 8:22 AM
I found this:
On the other hand, I think this bit is probably true:

If you think it's time to start burying guns, it's time to dig them up.

jbohon
01-18-2013, 9:00 AM
Thanks Tripper but not going to patronize CTD.

can you elaborate as to why not? :confused:

BOOGIEMAN
01-18-2013, 9:15 AM
Thank you for the links VictorFranko and .22guy. I prefer the one with no paper trails and on the cheap side.

BOOGIEMAN
01-18-2013, 10:13 AM
Oooooppppppsssss!!!!!!!!!

KevinB
01-18-2013, 10:20 AM
False wall in the back of a closet.

Texture it, paint it and your done, all you need is about 4 in to stack things in.

Need your stuff in a hurry and just kick in the wall.

Pilgrims.

sully007
01-18-2013, 10:23 AM
Yes sir! Thanks PAUL0660 and DECOLIGNY for your input. I am going to Homedepot right now to buy materials.

Oh no, run on HD materials also!

ExAcHog
01-18-2013, 12:09 PM
a box of steel shot shotgun shells, cut open and scattered, around the area

^^^^This is important!! Cache rule#4...Metal detectors are your enemy!
Toss a bunch #16 penny nails in the area and a handful of steel washers.

johnthomas
01-18-2013, 12:19 PM
This is pretty long with lots of great information.
http://www.pssurvival.com/PS/Group_Defense/Long-Term_Firearm_Storage_2004.txt

steadyrock
01-18-2013, 1:18 PM
I have occasionally wondered about the legality of doing this exact thing on public land. Assuming a legal but untraceable firearm such as a bent AK, can anyone comment on the legality of this in CA?

Lone_Gunman
01-18-2013, 1:42 PM
There's one way I would bury a firearm that I wasn't going to need instant access to. I've thought a little bit about it, and this is what I've come up with, IDK if it would actually work. I would seperate the stock from the receiver etc, I would put the barreled action, bolt, any other metal parts into a 6" PVC tube with a glued cap on one end. I would then fill the tube with synthetic motor oil, filled as full as I could. Then glue a cap on the other end. Then I would insert that sealed pipe into either an 8" or 10" PVC pipe with a glued cap on one end. I would then fill that tube with silica gel, put a PVC saw in it, and cap the other end with a gasketed screw on cap.

It's probably total overkill, but I think it would work.

What do you guys think?

Lone_Gunman
01-18-2013, 1:43 PM
I have occasionally wondered about the legality of doing this exact thing on public land. Assuming a legal but untraceable firearm such as a bent AK, can anyone comment on the legality of this in CA?

Sounds pretty illegal to me. The rule of thumb I use is if its cool or fun it's probably illegal in California.

k1dude
01-18-2013, 2:07 PM
can you elaborate as to why not? :confused:

They have been price gouging badly during this gun run - amongst the worst offenders. They are also very anti-California in their business practices - leaving gun owners in the state high and dry. They should be supporting us, not abandoning us. We live in occupied territory afterall. We are in effect, the resistance.

aznwolf118
01-18-2013, 2:14 PM
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=304917


Read this link, I spoke to wingman31k at length and his system works, you have to put in your mind that your protecting an investment, be it firearms, ammo, or food storage.

Wingman31k actually will answer questions even though his thread is years old and he has tested it over time. Give him a shout on arf

stix213
01-18-2013, 4:23 PM
What are some ideas on places to bury them?

Whoneedsafety?
01-18-2013, 4:35 PM
The whole or should I say "hole" things seems like a STUPID IDEA.

paul0660
01-18-2013, 4:44 PM
The whole or should I say "hole" things seems like a STUPID IDEA.

Funny. Why do you say that? You ARE aware that if a temporary restraining order is filed against you you will lose your guns without a sniff at other due process?

Whoneedsafety?
01-18-2013, 4:51 PM
Funny. Why do you say that? You ARE aware that if a temporary restraining order is filed against you you will lose your guns without a sniff at other due process?

Maybe, but they need a warrant to enter my home. I have R-49 insulation in my attic, they don't own a metal detector big enough to find them.

I think the police arresting me, someone filing a report against me, or someone going to court would tip off they may be interested in my guns. In which case I take all my long arms, load them in my truck and park it in a trusted neighbor's drive way. Then I load my pistols into my safe, hide the key which de-activates the combo and claim it's empty.

steadyrock
01-18-2013, 4:54 PM
Funny. Why do you say that? You ARE aware that if a temporary restraining order is filed against you you will lose your guns without a sniff at other due process?

I could file a TRO against him with just a tiny bit of prodding. Especially now, with ban and confiscation bills running amok, not having backup arms is what seems like the stupid idea.

paul0660
01-18-2013, 4:56 PM
So your complicated answer to paranoia is better than burying? They don't call you from Starbucks to let you know they are rolling over with a warrant.........I think.

Thank you for playing.

Whoneedsafety?
01-18-2013, 4:56 PM
I could file a TRO against him with just a tiny bit of prodding. Especially now, with ban and confiscation bills running amok, not having backup arms is what seems like the stupid idea.

True! However you would need to show compelling evidence to get a RO. A TRO will not equal someone knocking on my door and taking my firearms.

Grizzled Bastard
01-18-2013, 4:58 PM
Just an FYI, there are 2 excellent products for metal preservation during severe storage. One is called Eezox for guns, the other CorrosionX HD. They are like a modern day Cosmoline but it cleans up very easily when sprayed with CLP. Great to use in a marine environment, too.

Whoneedsafety?
01-18-2013, 4:59 PM
I've been there done that! I kicked the sh*t out of a neighbor (he hit me with a beer bottle first) and had a TRO. I got a deputy at the door telling me to stay 500' away, which I stated was impossible since I live in SoCal and he lives next door. Basically it was a no contact order, which he later rescinded when his wife reminded him that he started and before the altercation I asked him to get out of my garage.

kb58
01-18-2013, 5:57 PM
I've been there done that! I kicked the sh*t out of a neighbor (he hit me with a beer bottle first) and had a TRO. I got a deputy at the door telling me to stay 500' away, which I stated was impossible since I live in SoCal and he lives next door. Basically it was a no contact order, which he later rescinded when his wife reminded him that he started and before the altercation I asked him to get out of my garage.

So... your point is that if you had applied oil to yourself and sealed yourself inside a PVC pipe, you wouldn't have gotten into the fight? Just trying to keep it on-topic, lol.

steadyrock
01-18-2013, 5:59 PM
So... your point is that if you had applied oil to yourself and sealed yourself inside a PVC pipe, you wouldn't have gotten into the fight? Just trying to keep it on-topic, lol.

Don't talk to him about oiling up and sliding in somewhere. He may get the wrong idea. :chris:

chris
01-18-2013, 6:09 PM
I found this:

On the other hand, I think this bit is probably true:

If you think it's time to start burying guns, it's time to dig them up.

that makes perfect sense.

kel-tec-innovations
01-18-2013, 6:16 PM
I think it won't hurt if I combine all of the above suggestions, I can use my wife's Foodsaver thingy, vacuum seal it. then put it inside PVC pipe with dessicants. Then stuff the PVC pipe inside long wooden munition box.

Exactly what I did. I use Mobil 1 bearing grease, lubed up the rifle, threw a few desiccant bags and Oxygen absorber into a food vaccum bag and had the machine pull all the air out. Make sure its the heavy duty bags, the thinner bags punctures when it gets vacuumed up against any metal edges. I also threw in a few hundred rounds of ammo in the vacuum bagged rifle.

... I would put the barreled action, bolt, any other metal parts into a 6" PVC tube with a glued cap on one end. I would then fill the tube with synthetic motor oil, filled as full as I could. Then glue a cap on the other end. Then I would insert that sealed pipe into either an 8" or 10" PVC pipe with a glued cap on one end. I would then fill that tube with silica gel, put a PVC saw in it, and cap the other end with a gasketed screw on cap.

What do you guys think?

I like the idea of fully submersing the rifle in motor oil in a sealed tube, its a lot simpler and the PVC is stronger than the vacuum bag.

Don't talk to him about oiling up and sliding in somewhere. He may get the wrong idea. :chris:

Calguns is so entertaining lol

BOOGIEMAN
01-18-2013, 7:38 PM
Thanks AZNWOLF118! Will PM WINGMAN31k.

johnny1290
01-18-2013, 7:55 PM
FWIW I'd also venture that any kind of cap or seal will be a ***** to remove after a year or two and it will *not* be fun to dig the whole thing out.

I like the idea of a tube in a tube or something along those lines. I'd like to hear more about anybody with suggestions on where to bury one. Not everybody has a back yard :(

Thanks for the links , I'm checking them out now

OIFVet03
01-18-2013, 11:17 PM
Personally I wouldn't bury it. I would keep at least one near me with ammo near it for defense and the rest would be locked up in a safe.

BOOGIEMAN
01-19-2013, 7:43 AM
Actually the reason why I wanted to stash at least one of my firearms ( preferrably my stainless Ruger mini 14 with Hogue overmolded stock) in my BOL, is that I wanted something to have something to protect me and mine when SHTF, and I am away from my home and almost impossible to get there.

TommyGun
01-19-2013, 10:51 AM
Just an idea:

When you are done burying and its time to throw camouflaging nails and things, do not just stand over the cache and throw it in a circle outward.

It seems that in the hypothetical scenario where someone would be searching for a cache, what they would learn to do is scan the area with a few man metal detector team and place stakes whenever they get a "beep" or hit. In a little while they will have a general circle then go to the middle of that circle and start digging.

Using that thought throw your nails and things tactically.

TommyGun
01-19-2013, 10:52 AM
Just an idea:

When you are done burying and its time to throw camouflaging nails and things, do not just stand over the cache and throw it in a circle outward.

It seems that in the hypothetical scenario where someone would be searching for a cache, what they would learn to do is scan the area with a few man metal detector team and place stakes whenever they get a "beep" or hit. In a little while they will have a general circle then go to the middle of that circle and start digging.

Using that thought throw your nails and things tactically.

maybe even make the shape of a raised middle finger just for fun!

olhunter
01-20-2013, 1:04 PM
... I'd like to hear more about anybody with suggestions on where to bury one. Not everybody has a back yard :(

You can use mine. :D

swruger
01-20-2013, 5:26 PM
Sorry, not good at posting links yet. Mylar bags before you put into the pvc. Had a number burried in a 55 gallon drum, 8' below surface for over 10 years. Came out in perfect condition. They were broken down, oiled, wrapped in wax paper, then in the mylar bags, moisture obsorbers, heat sealed, then in the 55 gallon drum.

[http://www.shop.optimumpreparedness.com/11-x-60-Mylar-Oxygen-Barrier-Bag-for-Guns-Rifles-2-pak-H12MGB60-2.htm

postal
01-25-2013, 1:53 PM
Maybe, but they need a warrant to enter my home. I have R-49 insulation in my attic, they don't own a metal detector big enough to find them.

I think the police arresting me, someone filing a report against me, or someone going to court would tip off they may be interested in my guns. In which case I take all my long arms, load them in my truck and park it in a trusted neighbor's drive way. Then I load my pistols into my safe, hide the key which de-activates the combo and claim it's empty.


Sounds like a great plan, and you got all your bases covered!:laugh:

Gun_Owner_901
01-25-2013, 11:34 PM
I am thinking about picking up one of these to package my handguns and ammo then place in a PVC pipe, don't think it would work to well for a long gun.

http://www.foodsaver.com/product.aspx?pid=9902

jbohon
01-26-2013, 12:47 AM
I am thinking about picking up one of these to package my handguns and ammo then place in a PVC pipe, don't think it would work to well for a long gun.

http://www.foodsaver.com/product.aspx?pid=9902

It actually works quite well. You can get rolls of pleated bags that will fit a full rifle. If you seal the bag on the moist setting, it won't puncture the bag. Throw in a couple of desiccant packs before sealing it and you're good to go.

cdtx2001
01-26-2013, 8:19 AM
Wherever you guys decide to bury your G&A, remember this:

Never ever ever ever ever ever EVER EVER bury your guns and ammo in your backyard. That's what your neighbor's backyard is for.

BOOGIEMAN
01-27-2013, 7:56 PM
Yes!!!! My next door neighbor a very good friend of mine is going to take a month vacation next month. Wink, wink wink!!!!!!

Tripper
01-29-2013, 8:03 PM
Just found this
So, You Want to Bury Your Guns?
http://www.guns.com/2013/01/28/bury-your-guns/

BOOGIEMAN
01-29-2013, 10:06 PM
Thanks Tripper! So I am better off using Mylar instead of my wife's food saver.

Tripper
01-30-2013, 10:14 AM
Thanks Tripper! So I am better off using Mylar instead of my wife's food saver.

Both
Use the food saver to do the work, just on Mylar instead of the food saver bags

murphf21
01-30-2013, 10:07 PM
I think it won't hurt if I combine all of the above suggestions, I can use my wife's Foodsaver thingy, vacuum seal it. then put it inside PVC pipe with dessicants. Then stuff the PVC pipe inside long wooden munition box.

Don't make my mistake, put away the wife's foodsaver!!! :D

gimmejr
01-31-2013, 7:24 AM
Thanks Tripper! So I am better off using Mylar instead of my wife's food saver.

Dont forget to put the gun and mylar bag in the freezer for 3 days to kill all the bug larvae, before you bury it. :D

atticRR
02-03-2013, 11:02 PM
you guys mentioned scattering bits of metal around to discourage metal detector enthusiasts from finding your cache. I have a couple points to bring up about this. Current gen detectors can cancel out ferrous signals, the shot/washers/firearm, right? sounds like good news, but actually large ferrous targets can be picked up pretty deep and will override the cancelling setting. I strongly suggest bringing some thick rebar to bury as randomly as possible (without centering your stash) around your hole. After digging a few pieces of rusted rebar I would ignore any large targets, without it, in the middle of the forest i would totally dig out one massive anomalous target-and end up with your gun. On second thought maybe cable or chain would be better, i would assume there was some logging trash there.....

anyway, thats my two cents...

wpage
02-04-2013, 8:31 AM
Liking the idea of the back wall of a closet or attic better then in the ground...

High and dry baby!

ghostly7
02-04-2013, 10:01 AM
Cut a rip of drywall out next to where your water pipes or plumbing is ran in the wall. Place item next to pipes oiled and bagged. Re drywall area. Item is now safe and dry for years to come and metal detectors will not notice an anomalie, just the pipes where they should be in the wall.
If burying in the earth. Try to bury as vertical as possible. Also dig at the edge of a thick concrete slab and get your item vertical underneath it. Most well poured slabs have rebar in it that would drive any metal detector insane. If you are really paranoid, throw down loose nails or steel bearings in all your surrounding soil. In a few month s all those decoys will naturally sink below the surface level.
In a truely free country we would still be able to keep our rifles in a beautiful hardwood cabinet with glass doors. If we taught our children not to play with them and gave them a good moral upbringing they would not need so many governing laws when they became adults.

KevinB
02-04-2013, 1:52 PM
Don't like the idea of having guns in the wall next to pipes. Too much heat change and sweat.

Back or side of a large closet and re-texture and paint it. You can store most AR based guns between the studs and you are good to go. Add a fire block between the studs and drill a hole and you have a rifle holder. Lots of room to stack mags and ammo also.

shocknm
02-04-2013, 7:42 PM
Make sure it's an AK !

?v=RgrJElGOMMg

ghostly7
02-08-2013, 10:28 AM
Don't like the idea of having guns in the wall next to pipes. Too much heat change and sweat.

Back or side of a large closet and re-texture and paint it. You can store most AR based guns between the studs and you are good to go. Add a fire block between the studs and drill a hole and you have a rifle holder. Lots of room to stack mags and ammo also.

I like the hole in the fire block idea.

iron cannon
02-14-2013, 10:52 PM
deleted

12voltguy
02-17-2013, 9:42 AM
Store ammo in same manner in seperate PVC pipe but leave out the oxygen absorbers. Not sure how the powder will react to a no oxygen environment for a long period of time.
it is already in no ox, if it were not sealed, powder would absord moister....

smle-man
02-17-2013, 11:54 AM
This cache kept the stuff secret but not dry! Found in Israel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6WLdHRkA5U

problemchild
02-20-2013, 9:50 AM
Bury deep or satellites can see the temperature differences. I know Customs finds drugs with thermal imagery. Anything that is nearer the surface and is not ground temperature can show up.

They actually can see "disturbed" dirt so making a hole is the problem. Make sure your hole is under trees or in a cave or maybe under a large rock.

mofojoe
02-20-2013, 10:24 AM
I do agree with the recommendations on prep to inhibit rust, however, you may want to consider not gluing the ends of the PVC. How will you open it when SHTF??

Rather, prep the firearm, and seal it up in a food saver bag (with a descant and O2 absorber). When you need it, you won't need tools to open the pipe, only a knife to cut the food saver bag.

Buddy I'm pretty sure the guy will have a saw next to his shovel when he starts digging.:oji:

BigBamBoo
02-20-2013, 11:34 AM
Ok....a looonnngggg time ago I knew of a certain person...cough,cough....who's resemblance to me is purely coincidental...who went away...on "vacation" for a a couple of years.

Prior to his "vacation" he choice to bury some items for safe keeping until he could recover them when needed.

Lessons learned:

Deeper is better (this can apply to many things!...but I regress). Some of the storage tubes that where only a foot under the dirt sweated/condensated badly. Caused by temp fluctuations.
The items three to four feet down did not have this problem.

Any metal items....even stainless steel need to be covered in oil or grease then wrapped in plastic and placed in the storage tube (10" PVC is what was used).

Use LOTS of desiccant packs! They now have anti rust paper and "chips" (often seen in reloading dies) that I would look into as well.

Make sure you KNOW EXACTLY where you bury your stuff. LOL....trust me...being off by a few inches can cause panic! And even after just a year or two, things can look different when it is time to try and dig them up.

Good luck to you. I personally can understand the desire to want to have something put away "just in case".

A better solution IMHO is go out of town or out of state and rent a long term storage unit. DO NOT use a credit card to pay for it. A indoor one if preferable to outdoor ones for firearms.
DO NOT store inside rifle/gun case for any long term and again use lots of oil/anti rust products.

Along with a few guns and ammo you might stash some money, MRE's,etc. Chances are if you NEED to get to your guns in that type of situation, you will need food,water, and money as well.