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View Full Version : Is the CA DOJ Breaking the Law by Not Issuing Machine Gun Permits?


HiPower
09-03-2007, 8:53 PM
1. NRA/ILA Firearms Laws for California (As of February 2007); "Machine Guns and Other Firearms": "Upon a showing of good cause, a permit for possession and/or transportation [of a machine gun] may be issued by the Department of Justice. It has been reported that the Department of Justice refuses to grant such permits."

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/
Select "CA"

2. Salute v. Pitchess: A court "may direct [a public officer] to exercise [] discretion. . . . To determine, in advance, as a uniform rule, that only selected public officials can show good cause is to refuse to consider the existence of good cause on the part of citizens generally and is an abuse of, and not an exercise of, discretion."

http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/legal/salute.html
Paragraph 21

The legislature, by making the statute "may issue," obviously intended that some permits are issued. But if the DOJ regulations that were made are so onerous such that permits are not in fact being issued, that *may* violate Salute. (Actually, it may be even more fundamental than a Salute case, one where admin dept regs violate the very law they were meant to implement.)

So there are three questions: (1) whether apps from mere mortals are accepted and processed? (2) Are apps all judged against the same standard (e.g., same "Good Cause" has same outcome (approved/denied))? And (3) are the DOJ rules for GC so severe that they go against legislative intent and in effect make CA a No Issue state re machine gun permits when the legislature wanted CA to be a May Issue state? A PRA might be revealing. ;)

Any pro-gun lawyers want to have fun and possibly earn some money? :D

hoffmang
09-03-2007, 11:33 PM
My understanding is that mere mortals don't get them, but that there are a number of permits issued each year and quite a few issued and outstanding.

-Gene

C.G.
09-04-2007, 12:37 AM
My understanding is that mere mortals don't get them, but that there are a number of permits issued each year and quite a few issued and outstanding.

-Gene

And I imagine go to the movie industry,

hoffmang
09-04-2007, 12:41 AM
And I imagine go to the movie industry,

That seems to be the driver from what I understand. Also note that we do have some "contractors" that have offices in our state.

-Gene

jdberger
09-04-2007, 1:12 AM
Steel Corp. (or something like that) is a contractor in SF.

wilit
09-04-2007, 6:33 PM
Steel Corp. (or something like that) is a contractor in SF.

Steel Foundation. Actually a buddy of mine works for them. You can make big bucks if you do work for them over in Iraq. He said he was pulling in $12k a month. Nevermind the fact he almost got killed a few times, but I guess getting paid $12k/mo makes up for what he was getting paid as an E-3 and getting shot at. :D

Anthonysmanifesto
09-05-2007, 7:05 AM
The movie industry can just as easliy rent machine guns in arizona.

no machine gun permits, no movie industry.

DrjonesUSA
09-05-2007, 8:19 AM
The movie industry can just as easliy rent machine guns in arizona.

no machine gun permits, no movie industry.


Yes, I actually heard (FWIW) that not even our movie industry gets permits for any new full-autos or the other cool toys we always see in films (suppressors, etc).

I heard that rather than deal with the BS in this state, they shoot big gun scenes in other states or countries.

Makes sense to me.

I'd be interested in learning the facts rather than just hearsay, though.

tiki
09-05-2007, 8:26 AM
Let's start Calguns Productions and film some documentary films on the 2nd Amendment, CCW issuance in California, the stupid AW laws, and the ineffectiveness of laws and ordinances like requiring people to give thier names when buying ammo.
Oh, and a documentary on firing automatic and suppressed firearms. :)

stator
09-05-2007, 9:02 AM
My BIL owned a media company which produced short videos, advertising video, and print media. It was common for any producer who wanted to own FA to obtain a DOJ permit. The DOJ has since crackdown on film industry permits and it is now difficult to get one. If you are a small producer, they will usually deny stating that you can easily rent one. Times have changed.

However, there is another way to obtain one. One of our members here who is also a member on other similar boards, obtained one using a different approach. I cannot do this at my present location as I cannot obtain the necessary permits that are a precursor to the DOJ application.

I am surprised that some have not picked up on this here. It is somewhat obvious. One of the secret lies with the federal government. <- this will probably send people off on a tangent but it is true.

adamsreeftank
09-05-2007, 3:33 PM
Is there a reason you are being so vague?

...
However, there is another way to obtain one. One of our members here who is also a member on other similar boards, obtained one using a different approach. I cannot do this at my present location as I cannot obtain the necessary permits that are a precursor to the DOJ application.

I am surprised that some have not picked up on this here. It is somewhat obvious. One of the secret lies with the federal government.

McMadCow
09-05-2007, 4:12 PM
Is there a reason you are being so vague?

Seriously. I'm on pins and needles here! :mad:

dw1784
09-05-2007, 5:06 PM
My understanding is that mere mortals don't get them, but that there are a number of permits issued each year and quite a few issued and outstanding.

-Gene

if I hadn't seen it I wouldn't believe it either.
Saw a guy at the local range and the RO is hanging around him. During the break I went to admire his collection. I was more interested with his piston uppers and that was all I was interested in...until I saw the extra weight added to the carrier and asked the RO about it. He went "psst, notice the 3rd pin on the lower?".

LAK Supply
09-05-2007, 5:22 PM
Probably talking about a corp or a trust that allows the absence of sign-off by LEO...?

bwiese
09-05-2007, 6:27 PM
Probably talking about a corp or a trust that allows the absence of sign-off by LEO...?

That gets *Federal* NFA matters sorted out but does not deal with *CA* exemptions for NFA items.

ghettoshecky
09-05-2007, 6:42 PM
yeah Stator, can you PM me info. on how to get a permit if you don't want Iggy to find out?

Piper
09-05-2007, 9:33 PM
I assume a federal permit doesn't trump state law?