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View Full Version : Inner City Violence: Are You Responsible For It?


oaklander
09-03-2007, 7:49 PM
An Oakland newspaper columnist wrote a column about gun violence. I wrote him back. Then he wrote me back and here is part of what he said:

I believe if law abiding gun owners joined with those of us
concerned about urban violence, we could make some
progress. I am not suggesting that its all up to gun
owners, I have also written recent pieces about the culture
of crime, but everyone has a roll [sic] if we are to make a
difference on a problem we all agree exist.

I disagree that I have a "role" in solving this problem. I wrote him back and said that I shouldn't have to pay the price for the failure of inner city communities.

What do you guys think???

LAK Supply
09-03-2007, 7:54 PM
I did it. I got the inner-city "poor" hooked on social handouts and drugs and then helped them to create a network of narcotics dealers that double as street-corner gun dealers. :D

oaklander
09-03-2007, 8:05 PM
:lurk5:

chris
09-03-2007, 8:14 PM
in one word NO i'm not responsible nor do i have any duty to solve the issue.

bulgron
09-03-2007, 8:26 PM
I help to solve the problem by paying taxes which are then supposed to be applied to law enforcement activities, outreach activities, etc. That the city's government can't seem to spend my tax dollars in a wise enough manner that gun violence in the inner city is eliminated is hardly my responsibility.

However, I do agree that as a gun owner I have the responsibility to reduce gun violence -- by carrying a firearm concealed and therefore causing those who would commit offensive gun violence reason to pause and consider their actions. So give me my CCW already and I'll get on with the little bit of responsibility that I have in this area. :D

Paul
09-03-2007, 8:43 PM
The problem with liberal and progressive thinking is that there is no accountability for one's own actions. Luck, prejudice, faith, angry gods ... whatever - it's never their fault.

Experimentalist
09-03-2007, 8:44 PM
The quote from the author states that "everyone has a roll [sic] if we are to make a difference on a problem we all agree exist." Nowhere is there a statement that law abiding citizens are responsible for causing lawlessness.

in one word NO i'm not responsible nor do i have any duty to solve the issue.

Whether any of us has a responsibility to help quell the crime rate in any locale is up for debate; This is a personal issue and I'm not going to weigh in on this moral question.

However, I assert that we all have a fantastic lot to lose from the crime that does exist, and we have a stake in bringing it under control.

Once upon a time the shooting sports were immensely popular in the United States, and enjoyed a strong positive public image. While it remains very popular today, the image isn't nearly so popular. The nightly news, and the urban crime behind it, is a big reason for this.

Most of us are politically active to some degree; we make phone calls, send emails and faxes when an important issue is before the legislature. Perhaps taking a visible role in the public eye as part of the solution would help to positively change the image of the gun owning public. Perhaps there is an opportunity to help ourselves here, by helping others?

Dont' misunderstand me, I am fully aware of the huge problem here. I know that it will never go away completely. I don't have the magic solution, as much as I wish I did. All of that is irrelevant for our purpose.

Being perceived as an engaged part of the community, working towards a solution, could be useful in the long run.

SemiAutoSam
09-03-2007, 8:50 PM
SO the midnight basketball isn't working out the way they had planned huh ?

taloft
09-03-2007, 8:52 PM
Does he live in the community in question? What has he done personally to correct the situation besides shoot his mouth off? Ask him to define the problem. Ask him who he thinks created the problem that he is speaking of. Get him to back up his response to those questions. Then tell him to have those people fix it. IMO, meddling in the affairs of a community that you don't live in is an excellent way to foster hatred within that community. Kinda like how anti-gunner's like to decide public gun policy without input from the gun culture. Yet, we should feel obligated to do the same to another culture? Horse crap. IMO, it is a cultural issue and can't be changed from the outside. Oh, what roll did he have in mind for you? Apparently, he is aready doing the roll of socialist liberal busybody.

If we don't do anything, we're told we don't care and are just writing off the inner cities. If we come into an urban community to help clean it up, we get blamed for Gentrification of the area resulting in a community that the poor can no longer afford to live in. Even though, we created jobs doing so. Either way we get blamed for all that is wrong. I say let them clean up their own mess. I'll worry about my own community.

If the inner city community doesn't like the status quo, then they need to get off their butts and correct the situation. After all, who is ultimately responsible for what happens in your community? Don't like the youth gangs in your neighborhood, who raised the little monsters? Why do you tolerate them? Perhaps if every legal adult in the community owned and was trained with a firearm, the gangs could no longer control through fear and intimidation. You want to cut crime? Reduce the number of criminals. Hmm, just a thought.

.22guy
09-03-2007, 8:56 PM
SO the midnight basketball isn't working out the way they had planned huh ?

I don't care who you are, that's funny. :D

M. Sage
09-03-2007, 9:04 PM
IMO, the role he has set aside for us is the role of the victim, sacrificing our rights to his (and others') righteousness.

Then again, maybe he wants us to bring our guns into those high-crime areas and go vigilante? He's being kinda vague in what our role could be.

As far as a general role, I do my part: I don't commit crimes. I was always taught that was what we were supposed to to. Silly me.

In context, though, this is a response to a response (yes, that's what I mean) to an article he wrote questioning why you and I need our guns, especially "assault weapons" (whatever the hell an assault weapon is.) Going by what he said in there (he said the two people killed in self-defense was a BAD thing!!!!), I'd say my first guess is the truth.

I agree with Oaklander: I'm sick of people trying to make me pay for the evils of others. I didn't do it, don't effing blame me for it. I'm willing to work on real, feasible solutions, but I'm really sick of people painting me (for whatever reason) as a bad guy, despite the fact that I'm obviously not... and using that as the lame excuse to take rights away from me.

wilit
09-03-2007, 9:05 PM
Got a link to the editorial?

M. Sage
09-03-2007, 9:07 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=67910

Oh, and don't judge all pastors too harshly just because this guy's retarded. My dad just became one, and still likes his guns and loves to hunt. :D And gives me zero Sierra about my building an AK.

MaceWindu
09-03-2007, 9:21 PM
The problem with liberal and progressive thinking is that there is no accountability for one's own actions. Luck, prejudice, faith, angry gods ... whatever - it's never their fault.

Well said.


Mace

MrTenX
09-04-2007, 8:33 AM
I don't see what the problem is.
In most cases it appears that it's mostly criminals killing each other.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-08-31-criminal-target_N.htm?csp=34

Criminals target each other, trend shows

VICTIMS AND CRIMINALS

A look at Baltimore homicides reveals that a large percentage of victims have criminal arrest records -- and have for years.

Year, Murders, Victims with arrest records

1997, 303, 74%
2007*, 205, 91% (* through Aug. 28)

Source: Baltimore Police Department

By Julie Snider, USA TODAY
By Kevin Johnson, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON A spike in murders in many cities is claiming a startling number of victims with criminal records, police say, suggesting that drug and gang wars are behind the escalating violence.

Police increasingly explore criminal pasts of homicide victims as well as suspects as they search for sources of the violence, which has risen the past two years after a decade of decline, according to the FBI's annual measures of U.S. crime.

Understanding victims' pasts is critical to driving crime back down, police and crime analysts say. "If you are trying to look at prevention, you need to look at the lives of the people involved," says Mallory O'Brien, director of the Homicide Review Commission in Milwaukee.

In Baltimore, about 91% of murder victims this year had criminal records, up from 74% a decade ago, police reported.

In many cases, says Frederick Bealefeld III, Baltimore's interim police commissioner, victims' rap sheets provide critical links to potential suspects in botched drug deals or violent territorial disputes.

Philadelphia police Capt. Ben Naish says the Baltimore numbers are "shocking." Philadelphia also has seen the number of victims with criminal pasts inch up to 75% this year from 71% in 2005.

In Milwaukee, local leaders created the homicide commission after a spike in violence led to a 39% increase in murders in 2005. The group compiled statistics on victims' criminal histories for the first time and found that 77% of homicide victims in the past two years had an average of nearly 12 arrests.

While it was common in the past for murder victims to have criminal records, the current levels are surprising even to analysts who study homicides.

"Anecdotally, the detectives on the street knew" victims with prior police contact were being killed, "but we wanted people to start to look at this" in the community, O'Brien says.

In Newark, where three young friends with no apparent links to crime were executed Aug. 4, roughly 85% of victims killed in the first six months of this year had criminal records, on par with the percentage in 2005 but up from 81% last year, police statistics show.

David Kennedy, a professor at New York's John Jay College of Criminal Justice, says the rise in criminals killing criminals has escaped policymakers' attention.

"The notion that these (murders) are random bolts of lightning, which is the commonly held image, is not the reality," says Kennedy, who has examined the backgrounds of murder suspects and victims in multiple U.S. cities. "It happens, but it doesn't happen often."

The slaying of truly innocent victims is so unusual in Baltimore that the chief prosecutor says the city has become dangerously numb to the carnage. "If we don't put human faces on the victims, we will become desensitized," State Attorney Patricia Jessamy says.

AKman
09-04-2007, 12:39 PM
I believe if law abiding gun owners joined with those of us
concerned about urban violence, we could make some
progress. I am not suggesting that its all up to gun
owners, I have also written recent pieces about the culture
of crime, but everyone has a roll [sic] if we are to make a
difference on a problem we all agree exist.

I agree that we all have a role.


Guns and Ammo - check
Hunting License - check
Deer Tag - check
Pig Tag - check
Gang Banger Tag - still waiting...
Elk Tag - maybe next year


Problem solved!

And don't give me any cr@p about human rights. I've met wild boar that are more human than gang bangers (they taste better too!). With all excellent OLL builds out there, it would be nice to put them to good use to benefit society.

tyrist
09-04-2007, 12:48 PM
Seems the inner city problem is a crimminal problem, perhaps they should actually make some of these guys serve their whole sentence instead of the revolving door of parole.

Hoop
09-04-2007, 12:58 PM
The whole solution of taking guns out of "rural" areas because of "city" crime is ludicrous & anyone who thinks that way has no business writing a column in a major paper. It's simply stupid.

You have people with stolen or otherwise illegally acquired guns shooting it out over drugs (which are already illegal).

Seems the inner city problem is a crimminal problem, perhaps they should actually make some of these guys serve their whole sentence instead of the revolving door of parole.

It's more than that. Communities like these need a big investment in their schools, infrastructure, and industry. Until people are actually willing to clean up the inner-city schools that produce todays "gang banger" we're going to have to deal with bull**** laws.

The scary part is these people actually think that if you make another law against X, it'll magically go away. And they are always searching for that next law or cause because the previous one didn't work.

jumbopanda
09-04-2007, 1:19 PM
SO the midnight basketball isn't working out the way they had planned huh ?

HAHAHAHAHA! It always makes me laugh when idiot legislators think they can show gang members the light with crap like that. Prisons exist for a reason fellas.

chico.cm
09-04-2007, 1:21 PM
"read my lips: No new taxes...." GHWB

CalNRA
09-04-2007, 3:08 PM
SO the midnight basketball isn't working out the way they had planned huh ?

resisting hard to not turn this into a family guy appreciation thread...

M. Sage
09-04-2007, 5:23 PM
It's more than that. Communities like these need a big investment in their schools, infrastructure, and industry. Until people are actually willing to clean up the inner-city schools that produce todays "gang banger" we're going to have to deal with bull**** laws.

That's just throwing money away. Do you honestly believe that gang bangers could or would benefit one bit from the best schools out there? They don't have a desire to learn that stuff. They don't care. They feel that society owes them so they're going to go take it.

Mute
09-04-2007, 6:52 PM
I'm already fulfilling MY role by being well armed and trained. It's now the governments responsibility to not hinder me from being a responsible gun owner by creating and enforcing idiotic gun control laws that are a direct contributor to this problem.

Hoop
09-04-2007, 7:05 PM
They feel that society owes them so they're going to go take it.

No they don't. They just live in a culture where gang membership & prison are the accepted routes to adulthood.

And they don't pop into this world @ 17 years of age, either.