PDA

View Full Version : Bear Country


Firehawk3
09-02-2007, 1:22 AM
What can you guys tell me about open carry or concealed carry while backpacking in the sierra mountains? Since its bear country I have seen few people walking around with holstered weapons and was wondering the legality of it. I haven't taken any firearms but would like to for self defense in the event I become compromised with a bear since I have seen them. I usually hike in around the borders of mono and fresno counties. Thanks.

otteray
09-02-2007, 6:22 AM
What I learned from previous posts (at this and other sites) as well as my own investigations on this topic :

National Forest open carry loaded is fine.

Concealed carry only when traveling to or from or actively engaged in hunting or fishing trips.

Go to the Tahoe Nat'l Forest website and search their FAQS; I believe it is there.

BLM is generally okay but check with the district office first.

Get a copy of "How to Own A Gun and Stay out of Jail"

emc002
09-02-2007, 3:05 PM
National Forest open carry loaded is fine.

True, but NOT in National Parks or designated Wilderness Areas (John Muir, Ansel Adams for example). Note that a goodly portion of the PCT runs through these areas as does the John Muir Trail.

Concealed carry only when traveling to or from or actively engaged in hunting or fishing trips.

I know you can open carry for these two activities (excepting the areas discussed above), but concealed?

Librarian
09-02-2007, 3:48 PM
I know you can open carry for these two activities (excepting the areas discussed above), but concealed?
Yep, concealed:12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he
or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.


12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:

...

(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or
other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while
engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms
unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
expedition.Remember, applies only with respect to state law.

metalhead357
09-02-2007, 3:59 PM
Yep on the hunting bit.....but that ALSO INVOLVES A LICENCE AND VALID TAG AND THE PROPER SEASON.

You could open carry as already said in those places but for concealed carry under the hunter exemption you'd definitely need to have a tag AND IT BE BEAR SEASON. Might argue that you could be hunting squirrels with only a licence and not a bear tag....but anything less than .44/.45/.357 on ya' for bear and you're asking to just piss the bear off...but hunting squirrel with one of those is definitely going to get ya' another couple minutes talk time while they try to figure if yer' serious or not.

Ya' CAN have it concealed at your campsite though (still just not in Nat parks & monuments, etc.)

Sleepy1988
09-02-2007, 4:00 PM
Another poster mentioned that bear attacks almost never happen in Cali anymore. However, mountain lion attacks are still an occurrence and would warrant carrying a weapon in areas where you may encounter them IMO.

otteray
09-02-2007, 8:24 PM
...but anything less than .44/.45/.357 on ya' for bear and you're asking to just piss the bear off...but hunting squirrel with one of those is definitely going to get ya' another couple minutes talk time while they try to figure if yer' serious or not.


I don't think any caliber is mentioned in the law.
Is the regulation based on what species is being hunted or fished?
Hmm, what concealed weapon should I carry when fishing for brook trout?

emc002
09-02-2007, 9:23 PM
(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing...

Ok, I know I'm being a word-miser here and am parsing, but I read that to say that the hunter for fisherman can carry a weapon capable of being concealed, not that it can be carried concealed...
I need to log onto Westlaw now and read the PC in its entirety... argh.

Dont Tread on Me
09-02-2007, 9:29 PM
Note jack rabbits are always in season.

One point. I think the definition of unloaded is more generous while hunting. A magazine can be in the gun but no round chambered. Anybody know if this is correct?

Librarian
09-02-2007, 10:09 PM
Ok, I know I'm being a word-miser here and am parsing, but I read that to say that the hunter for fisherman can carry a weapon capable of being concealed, not that it can be carried concealed...
I need to log onto Westlaw now and read the PC in its entirety... argh.
That -is- the PC.

12025, which I included, says it is illegal to carry a concealed firearm.

12027(g) is an exception to 12025.

Adog5
09-03-2007, 9:45 AM
Really, if you are concerned about Bears, it's better to get one of those BIG CANS of MACE! They shoot over 20 feet and will be much better at stopping a bear than a handgun. Also, it's much safer and your liability goes down considerably. Don't know if there are any endangered bears, but it would be horrible if you shot one to save your life and old find out in court that you're going to jail for killing an endangered species. HAHAHA

But mace you can use without fear and you can run from the bear knowing he can't see or smell you very well (if he's still stupid enough to chase you).

Simple Advice from Adog5

Desert Rat
09-03-2007, 9:56 AM
Note jack rabbits are always in season.

One point. I think the definition of unloaded is more generous while hunting. A magazine can be in the gun but no round chambered. Anybody know if this is correct?

While you are out of a vehicle, you can have a full magazine plus one in the chamber. While in a vehicle, you need to remove the round from the chamber on semi-auto pistols, rifles and shotguns and from the next chamber up on a revolver. Otherwise, rounds in magazines and other revolver chambers is permitted.

Dont Tread on Me
09-03-2007, 10:05 AM
While you are out of a vehicle, you can have a full magazine plus one in the chamber. While in a vehicle, you need to remove the round from the chamber on semi-auto pistols, rifles and shotguns and from the next chamber up on a revolver. Otherwise, rounds in magazines and other revolver chambers is permitted.

Many thanks. I appreciate it. Do you have any pointers to the legal codes so I can carry a printout on my next hunting trip?

metalhead357
09-03-2007, 10:28 AM
I don't think any caliber is mentioned in the law.
Is the regulation based on what species is being hunted or fished?
Hmm, what concealed weapon should I carry when fishing for brook trout?


:p You missed my point entirely.....but actually YES, there are minimum requirements for hunting big game...MUST be centerfire and use soft nose or expanding bullets. MY point is/was that you're probably not going to be hasseld if you're hunting wabbitts with a .22 pistol...but you're going to do 'some 'splaining if you're gofer hunting with a .50 BMG.

Ask just about any duty cop and they'll tell ya' 9 outta 10 times its what people say that gets them incriminated and hauled off rather than <just> what they did......

So while hunting any particular game species doesnt require caliber specific....I would venture to say whatever you are hunting the weapon/caliber need to be PROPORTIONATE;) Walk around the high altitude woods (with no rabbits or squirrels) with a shotgun and 7 shot and you're going to get looked at a lil' harder....tell them you're hunting coyote and they're going to stare even harder....tell them that 7 shot is for your protection against Big bad black bears and you might just have to explain yourselves back at the office so everyone can laugh while they cite you.....

Bear aint always in season.... PIG is, coyote is, jack (not cottontail) always is, so are a few others and some 'non game' species. Cross paths with a warden while carrying a .44 with 300gr loads and go ahead and tell him you're hunting song birds:rolleyes:...just have a good wife or lawyer to be able to come pick you up when you're done at the DFG office....... THAT is all I'm saying.

You CAN carry openly in the proscribed places and not even be hunting....target shooting *may* be valid in a lot of areas. But the moment you cross over into CONCEALED territory you better be LEO, have a CCW, be in your own campsite (only), or be a hunter With a VALID licence and appropriate tags (if in season) or get a year round tag for pigs...or be hunting coyotes (but HOnestly...who is going to belive you're hunting coyotes with a *regular* pistol? ...I'm not talking some 8+ inch hunter magnum or T/C contender with a 15 inch barrel). There ARE some other exceptions to the ccw-mode but most aint relevant here-- like with an enetertainment permit....or security guard with proper training/certification WHILE ON DUTY

Do CCW right or dont do it; it just gives fodder to our enemies and thier blasted stats. Know what the laws are...including the Game ones

Now WHY I said .45/.44/.357 minimum for Bear is quite frankly anyone who's anyone thats ever shot a bear will tell ya' they Big-Arsed critters and anything 'smaller' quite simply is NOT going to penetrate...not even your 38+P+P or your 9mm...while your .40 might work on a smaller one it sure as spit aint gonna bring down a charging full grown adult bear......

As always YMMV........ just do it right or dont do it; the woods are fun but they aint no place to go 'playin' if bears are around and you are actually concerened about running into one; HIGHLY unlikely but it does happen. One of the BEST methods yet mentioned is to simply BE LOUD IN THE WOODS and most (incl. bears) will simply avoid you.

metalhead357
09-03-2007, 10:31 AM
Many thanks. I appreciate it. Do you have any pointers to the legal codes so I can carry a printout on my next hunting trip?


The hunting regs book.............it does cite it in there.......

Dont Tread on Me
09-03-2007, 10:56 AM
Go to: http://www.dfg.ca.gov/regulations/index.html and download this year's mammal hunting regulations: http://www.dfg.ca.gov/regulations/07-08-mammal-regs.pdf

Turn to page 48. It reads:

"It is unlawful to posses a loaded rifle or shotgun in any vehicle or conveyance or its attachments which is standing on or along or is being driven on or along any public highway or other way open to the public.

A Rifle or shotgun shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section where there in an unexpended cartridge or shell in the firing chamber but not when the only cartridges or shells are in the magazine."

There is an exception to the exception:

"Except as provided in subdivision [PC 12031] (b), (c), (d), every person who carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory is guilty of a misdemeanor (PC 12030(a))."

My notes
* No mention of handguns, just rifles and shotguns
* No mention of revolver solution
* Looks like you are out of luck when you hit an incorporated area.

metalhead357
09-03-2007, 11:14 AM
There at least USED to be also the section usually grayed in about what constituted a "loaded" gun to....Need(s) to have a round IN THE CHAMBER for it to be considered loaded, but its not loaded with a clip/mag/enbloc attached and one NOT IN the chamber

Dont Tread on Me
09-03-2007, 11:50 AM
There at least USED to be also the section usually grayed in about what constituted a "loaded" gun to....Need(s) to have a round IN THE CHAMBER for it to be considered loaded, but its not loaded with a clip/mag/enbloc attached and one NOT IN the chamber

That is exactly the section I've pointed you to above. It is clear with the case of a magazine but not with a revolver. I'm looking for text that makes this clear if such exists.

metalhead357
09-03-2007, 12:43 PM
That is exactly the section I've pointed you to above. It is clear with the case of a magazine but not with a revolver. I'm looking for text that makes this clear if such exists.


WHOOPS... My bad...I can honestly say I missed yer' post:chris: teach me to read!!!!! my puvlibk edumikation der' failing me!!!!

magsnubby
09-03-2007, 4:21 PM
The areas you hike in Yogi ain't likely to bother you. In all the years i've been hunting those areas i've saw bear sign, and occasionally a bear, and never felt threatened by them. They usually go the other way. They don't much care for people. Same with the big cats. They're there, you might find some tracks, but it's very rare to actually encounter one.

What i worry about is running across a marywanna garden or a meth lab. It's happening more than you might think. Several years ago my niece's boyfriend ran across a pot garden. He has a nice scar to show for it. He said it wasn't any fun being shot.

Years ago i would carry a .357 wheelgun "just in case." Now i carry a Glock .40 with a couple extra magazines.

jmlivingston
09-03-2007, 4:43 PM
Some of these Mary-Jane busts are in places you might not expect, places you'd think are relatively safe from this type of activity. I would have never guessed that one of the largests drug busts in California history would have occured near Independence earlier this summer. Farms were found near Hogback Cr (between Lone Pine and Mt. Whitney - used to hunt cottontail over there as a kid!), Shephard Creek, Baxter Pass, and Little Lake.

http://www.inyoregister.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1326&Itemid=27

John

magsnubby
09-03-2007, 5:05 PM
Some of these Mary-Jane busts are in places you might not expect, places you'd think are relatively safe from this type of activity.

Scary ain't it?

Desert Rat
09-03-2007, 5:17 PM
Many thanks. I appreciate it. Do you have any pointers to the legal codes so I can carry a printout on my next hunting trip?

These guidelines are contained within the California Fish & Game rules, much more simple and well defined than California Penal Code. Look on their website or even a hunter safety pamphlet. The average hunter safety class only costs a Saturday and around $25 and covers all the rules. Most instructors can answer your questions with chapter and verse. Good investment in time and money.

metalhead357
09-03-2007, 5:35 PM
Some of these Mary-Jane busts are in places you might not expect, places you'd think are relatively safe from this type of activity.


True, so very true and yet (no offense meant) I've never understood when/where/how the mentality of americans changed that it was somehow *safe* to trek into the woods. From the time I can remember and camping with my family~ most were packing and always instilled the fear of Bigfoot <cough> I mean a healthy respect for the dangers of the woods:D.

*back in the day* I had a friend with access to some big plot-o-land and was warned repeatedly that it was in *one of those areas* and if we were to stumble across ANYONE on his land, or find plants, or even a bucket...to get the hell outta there and call him and the cops...... well, we DID stumble upon something once.... some nutjob had been laying PVC that had been sprayed green and brown in a corner of his property, some holes dug but nothin' planted yet. I'm telling ya' STACKS of painted PVC and couplers, etc~ nutjob easily had a $1000 of set up there and then some......................... So what did we do??????? We Shot the place to absloute bloody hell...what we couln't shoot we broke, what we couln't shoot or break we burned with my buddy's 5 gallon gas can we sent one of the guys back to the rigs to get. ANYONE in that area woulda been Absatively friggin nutts to have come near the scene at the time with 5 guys going hog wild ape-crap with (yes...now registered) Maadis and Bushy rifles. We got gone, called him and the police....dude was craking up up when we told him what we did! Laughed so hard he dropped and broke the phone! So after he called us on his other phone we gave him the skinny and he kept on laughing. Gave my buddy his own key (to keep this time) for *forever* access to his property. Cops never showed best we could ever tell by other outtings. NEVER did see any other *set ups* after that.:D

I DONT reccomend that route.... was certainly one of those live & learn experices and I'm sooooooooooooo glad we never had to see another soul on that property as that mighta been scarier than any bear.

Dont Tread on Me
09-03-2007, 5:38 PM
These guidelines are contained within the California Fish & Game rules, much more simple and well defined than California Penal Code. Look on their website or even a hunter safety pamphlet. The average hunter safety class only costs a Saturday and around $25 and covers all the rules. Most instructors can answer your questions with chapter and verse. Good investment in time and money.

I've posted a pointer to the fish and game book back up at post 18. It raises quite a few questions. I took the two day hunter safety training at near Morgan Hill and while the instructors were good they were confused on the legal side.

metalhead357
09-03-2007, 5:45 PM
I've posted a pointer to the fish and game book back up at post 18. It raises quite a few questions. I took the two day hunter safety training at near Morgan Hill and while the instructors were good they were confused on the legal side.


BAD instructors....but then again I've ALWAYS gotton a different response from wardens in the field, in the office, and office peeps in person and on the phone when asking about 2 items repeated ly over the years; the legality (yes it is legal) to hunt with a mag larger than 10 rounds of RIFLE OR PISTOL ammo, and what is *proper* if you manage to somehow hit a deer~~~~ leave for road sausage:eek: or allowable to take home ((always get the NOT legal to take)) though NO ONE has ever been able to point me to a code/pc section directly forbidding it. Out of season hunting kill yeah...definitely illegal...but I mean a complete blunder on the driver part. It HAS happened to my buddy THREE freakin' times! His car has more carnage-counts (with more than deer) than my deer hunting rifle!!!!

edwardm
09-03-2007, 5:52 PM
FWIW, all you're going to find are black bears. I've run into them more than enough for one lifetime, in camp sites, and deep in the forest on trails. The word "Boo" seems to send them running, so I'd not be too worried about them bothering you and needing a sidearm. And truth be told, unless you're packing a 454 or 500S&W, a sidearm is just going to annoy them.



What can you guys tell me about open carry or concealed carry while backpacking in the sierra mountains? Since its bear country I have seen few people walking around with holstered weapons and was wondering the legality of it. I haven't taken any firearms but would like to for self defense in the event I become compromised with a bear since I have seen them. I usually hike in around the borders of mono and fresno counties. Thanks.

M. Sage
09-03-2007, 6:56 PM
Some of these Mary-Jane busts are in places you might not expect, places you'd think are relatively safe from this type of activity. I would have never guessed that one of the largests drug busts in California history would have occured near Independence earlier this summer. Farms were found near Hogback Cr (between Lone Pine and Mt. Whitney - used to hunt cottontail over there as a kid!), Shephard Creek, Baxter Pass, and Little Lake.

http://www.inyoregister.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1326&Itemid=27

John

That's reason enough to carry right there. No telling who you can run into in the middle of nowhere, either.

Sure.. nobody's been killed by a bear in CA in over 100 years. That just means two things: we're due, and it'd be damn embarrassing to be the one who breaks that streak!

Yankee Clipper
09-03-2007, 7:01 PM
What can you guys tell me about open carry or concealed carry while backpacking in the sierra mountains? Since its bear country I have seen few people walking around with holstered weapons and was wondering the legality of it. I haven't taken any firearms but would like to for self defense in the event I become compromised with a bear since I have seen them. I usually hike in around the borders of mono and fresno counties. Thanks.
As indicated in the story below Firehawk, it's not just the legal ramifications you have to be concerned with.

So the newbie ask the old trapper: “Will this 357 magnum, I just bought, keep me from being chewed on by a 300 pound bear?”
“Maybe” the trapper answers, “but you better file down the front sight.”
“Why” the newbie ask, “do these hollow points shoot to low?”
“No” said the trapper, “that way it won’t hurt so much when he shows where he thinks you should keep your pistol.”

Hunter
09-03-2007, 7:44 PM
True, but NOT in National Parks or designated Wilderness Areas (John Muir, Ansel Adams for example). Note that a goodly portion of the PCT runs through these areas as does the John Muir Trail.

I know you can open carry for these two activities (excepting the areas discussed above), but concealed?


You are correct on National Parks not allowing firearms, unless cased and put away. BUT you are incorrect on wilderness areas. One can indeed have firearms in Wilderness areas and even hunt in them. What is prohibited in those areas is target shooting and plinking. Otherwords one can only discharge a firearm in an emergency or in taking legal game. So packing a sidearm will hiking thru John Muir Wilderness is 100% legal.

edwardm
09-03-2007, 7:46 PM
More appropriate for brown bears. Black bears are timid critters by comparison. Though if you did end up on the wrong end of a pissed off sow, I have firsthand evidence that something as mild as 150gr 30-30 will take care of her.

The rule of thumb is (IMO) give them a wide berth and they will do that same. Black bears have no desire to confront humans.

As indicated in the story below Firehawk, it's not just the legal ramifications you have to be concerned with.

So the newbie ask the old trapper: “Will this 357 magnum, I just bought, keep me from being chewed on by a 300 pound bear?”
“Maybe” the trapper answers, “but you better file down the front sight.”
“Why” the newbie ask, “do these hollow points shoot to low?”
“No” said the trapper, “that way it won’t hurt so much when he shows where he thinks you should keep your pistol.”

LAK Supply
09-03-2007, 7:51 PM
So the newbie ask the old trapper: “Will this 357 magnum, I just bought, keep me from being chewed on by a 300 pound bear?”
“Maybe” the trapper answers, “but you better file down the front sight.”
“Why” the newbie ask, “do these hollow points shoot to low?”
“No” said the trapper, “that way it won’t hurt so much when he shows where he thinks you should keep your pistol.”

The .357 with appropriate ammo is more than adequate to take down any blackie in CA. :rolleyes: 200 gr hardcasts out of a .357 will work just as well as a .44 mag. I'm NOT saying that the .357 is on par with the .44, but either one will penetrate enough to take out anything on a CA black bear.... the .44 will have a larger wound channel/better sectional density and will penetrate a little farther, but once you're past a certain point it doesn't matter (unless the bear is rolling around on it's back and you're trying to hit CNS through it's ***).

If you can hit what you're aiming at with .357 shooting a 180 or 200 gr hard cast lead bullet that won't deflect off of bone and such you will be fine. Hitting what you're aiming at is the most important factor. You can hit a bear in the wrong spot with a .500 that you can't control and it will be less effective than hitting it in the right spot with a much smaller handgun that you can control.

otteray
09-03-2007, 8:59 PM
:p You missed my point entirely
.....but actually YES, there are minimum requirements for hunting big game.

You didn't address my question about fishing, which is an exception, along with hunting.
Nowhere in the regulations discussed here do I see a requirement for a specific caliber.
I see nothing about the concealed weapon being the firearm used for hunting or fishing. Big trouble if using a gun for fishing!
Besides that, using your argument, could not a concealed caliber revolver, like a .22 .32, .38, .40, .41, .44., .45, be used as the "coup de grâce" if needed for suffering prey?
That makes more sense to me than a finishing close-up shot with a 45-70 405 grain bullet out of my ported-barrel Marlin Guide Gun.
Please, metalhead357, don't think I'm being argumentative- I'm not.
This is a valid discussion of our confusing laws!
I'm grateful for this forum and your input so we can try to sort this kinda stuff out.

metalhead357
09-04-2007, 4:52 AM
You didn't address my question about fishing, which is an exception, along with hunting.
Nowhere in the regulations discussed here do I see a requirement for a specific caliber.
I see nothing about the concealed weapon being the firearm used for hunting or fishing. Big trouble if using a gun for fishing!
Besides that, using your argument, could not a concealed caliber revolver, like a .22 .32, .38, .40, .41, .44., .45, be used as the "coup de grâce" if needed for suffering prey?
That makes more sense to me than a finishing close-up shot with a 45-70 405 grain bullet out of my ported-barrel Marlin Guide Gun.
Please, metalhead357, don't think I'm being argumentative- I'm not.
This is a valid discussion of our confusing laws!
I'm grateful for this forum and your input so we can try to sort this kinda stuff out.


I tend to NOT speak up on subjects I'm not so versed in. I have not been fishing for close to what..... 16 years or close to that; so while I know there are exemptions~ I dont recall Fishing being one of them. As I noted above there ARE a lot of them....and none of them ever seem to have remotely come into play for me & mine, nor anyone I know-- as too with the retired LEO, entertainment permit, bank guard, and so on and so forth down the laundry list. So while fishing may indeed be one (Still foggy in d' head here at 5:45 am!!!) I would have instantly thought that that was open carry only.

The fishing regs as opposed to the hunting regs are a set of rules I've not ventured into in a long long time. I was seriously hoping someone would speak up more knowlegable than I on THAT specific part....... since no one is-- let me track down some of those exemptions again and/or go browse the online regs and see what I can find.

The two things I've got to say is that 1. Cali laws are NOT designed to make sense and 2. All our discussions on the matters dont amount to a hill of beans if we/someone is wrong and they get cited or hauled off. As I DO recall though there a bucket load of FISHING places that specifally do not allow guns....unless you fall under one of the *big* exemptions of Hunting/LEO/ or CCW. Conversely said- there are a Helluva alot more fishing places than there are places you can carry~ at least in my meager opinion.

I'll be back and try to find out more specifics to yer question. It is a good one...and one I dont/havent really run across before.........

grywlfbg
09-04-2007, 11:03 AM
Really, if you are concerned about Bears, it's better to get one of those BIG CANS of MACE! They shoot over 20 feet and will be much better at stopping a bear than a handgun. Also, it's much safer and your liability goes down considerably. Don't know if there are any endangered bears, but it would be horrible if you shot one to save your life and old find out in court that you're going to jail for killing an endangered species. HAHAHA

But mace you can use without fear and you can run from the bear knowing he can't see or smell you very well (if he's still stupid enough to chase you).

Simple Advice from Adog5

+10000 A handgun is only going to piss off a bear. I still bring my Glock w/ me when hiking but that's to stop people. For bears I carry "Bear Spray" which is pepper spray. I also wear a bear bell (both available from REI). The bell annoys my wife but I haven't had any problems w/ bears on the trail - hardly even see them. I'll occasionally hear one sniffing around at night but they're just looking for food which as long as it's properly stored you have little to fear.

Diabolus
09-04-2007, 12:07 PM
+10000 A handgun is only going to piss off a bear. I still bring my Glock w/ me when hiking but that's to stop people. For bears I carry "Bear Spray" which is pepper spray. I also wear a bear bell (both available from REI). The bell annoys my wife but I haven't had any problems w/ bears on the trail - hardly even see them. I'll occasionally hear one sniffing around at night but they're just looking for food which as long as it's properly stored you have little to fear.

+1 - I carry a sidearm for protection for the two legged predators and bear spray for the four legged. I read a few articles and bear spray is extremely effective in an attack.

Glock22Fan
09-04-2007, 12:34 PM
"Yep on the hunting bit.....but that ALSO INVOLVES A LICENCE AND VALID TAG AND THE PROPER SEASON."

Yes on the licence, but I would point out that there are a number of species, such as coyotes, jack rabbits and ground squirrels, that have no season and require no tags.

'Yep, officer, I like shooting ground squirrels with my .44 because they make such a nice big "SPLAT!"'

On the other hand, for real, I did shoot a gopher with a .44 (shotshell) the other day because, and I'm serious, my sheep had it cornered and it was biting their noses. I thought it must have been a rattler at first, from the noise they were making, which is why I grabbed the .44 instead of the .22.

And this, my friends, is why we in the country (or some of us at any rate) do not lock up all our guns when we are home.

StukaJr
09-04-2007, 1:20 PM
"Bear Country" in California? What's that?

I don't know, if you summed up all the brown bear attacks on Humans in Sierra Nevada - you might as well start carrying guns for "shark protection" in the forest as well... Brown bear won't attack unless you get between it and its cub, or just happened to be smeared in bacon grease while eating a powdered donut... Rangers are taught to chase the brown bears away, while waving their arms and yelling - unless they are nursing mother bears, that is...

AKman
09-04-2007, 3:46 PM
Carry a valid hunting license and a pig tag. Then you can easily carry a concealed weapon and say you are currently hunting wild boar. I've never seen a wild boar in the Sierras, but there isn't a law against being a stupid hunter. Also, there is no season for wild boar, so this should work year-round.

magsnubby
09-04-2007, 6:04 PM
...if you summed up all the brown bear attacks on Humans in Sierra Nevada - you might as well start carrying guns for "shark protection" in the forest as well...

That's just great. If the bear doesn't eat me, the marywanna grower doesn't shoot me or i don't get killed by the meth cookers toxic chemicals, i gotta worry about being eaten by sharks. I think i'll sell my deer rifle and take up knitting.

metalhead357
09-04-2007, 9:52 PM
"Yep on the hunting bit.....but that ALSO INVOLVES A LICENCE AND VALID TAG AND THE PROPER SEASON."

Yes on the licence, but I would point out that there are a number of species, such as coyotes, jack rabbits and ground squirrels, that have no season and require no tags.

'Yep, officer, I like shooting ground squirrels with my .44 because they make such a nice big "SPLAT!"'

On the other hand, for real, I did shoot a gopher with a .44 (shotshell) the other day because, and I'm serious, my sheep had it cornered and it was biting their noses. I thought it must have been a rattler at first, from the noise they were making, which is why I grabbed the .44 instead of the .22.

And this, my friends, is why we in the country (or some of us at any rate) do not lock up all our guns when we are home.


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

But hey, Clock......you got a take on the FISHING inclusion I was being asked about?????? I aint had a chance to looksie yet at the fishy regs yet, lonnnnnng day at work and 5+ hours past my usualy posting time(s).

Rumpled
09-04-2007, 10:38 PM
As far as the concealed carry - get a hunting license. If you're carrying a .22 you are after ground squirrels. If you have a centerfire - you are after coyote.
They both are virtually everywhere in the state and have no tags, seasons, or limits other than possessing a license. Oh and stay out of parks while carrying.

In a pinch, a .22 would discourage a bear somewhat.
Also, many people take bear with archery equipment; if you think a .357 isn't enough, what do you think a razor on a stick will do?

(Hint: A .357 is sufficient and I'm sure many bear have been taken with them)

Hunter
09-05-2007, 9:37 AM
"Bear Country" in California? What's that?

I don't know, if you summed up all the brown bear attacks on Humans in Sierra Nevada - you might as well start carrying guns for "shark protection" in the forest as well.....

Hmmm, I agree as there are no brown bears in CA! :D

Now, there are black bears that are brown, cinnamon, blonde, and even tan colored ones. But there are no brown bears here (by definition of what is a brown bear... aka "coastal grizzly"). You will need to go about 1000 miles north to find those fellows.

StukaJr
09-05-2007, 9:41 AM
^^ Haha, my fault :)

What ever the proper name for Kalifornian Liberal Bear would be then?

Glock22Fan
09-05-2007, 11:30 AM
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

But hey, Clock......you got a take on the FISHING inclusion I was being asked about?????? I aint had a chance to looksie yet at the fishy regs yet, lonnnnnng day at work and 5+ hours past my usualy posting time(s).

Sorry, Metalhead, but the only thing I know about fishing licences (inland, at any rate) is that you need one to hunt for snakes! Goodness know why. Like all of the regs, there are exceptions to allow you to protect yourself and livestock, so I don't let (lack of) fishing licences worry me when the rattlers attack my dogs, sheep, other livestock or me (this usually happens once or twice each year - the last one inside the garage, right by the door into the house).

metalhead357
09-05-2007, 4:41 PM
Sorry, Metalhead, but the only thing I know about fishing licences (inland, at any rate) is that you need one to hunt for snakes! Goodness know why. Like all of the regs, there are exceptions to allow you to protect yourself and livestock, so I don't let (lack of) fishing licences worry me when the rattlers attack my dogs, sheep, other livestock or me (this usually happens once or twice each year - the last one inside the garage, right by the door into the house).


Amen to that...you hit about the far reaches of my memory extent with the snake bit. I'll head on over tonight and do some reading...actually made it home earlier tonight:)

metalhead357
09-05-2007, 6:19 PM
Ok, I'm stumped...but I've always readily admitted my PDF- Google-FU SUXXXX big time.

After perusin' the DFG website's PDF of all things related to freshwater FISHING.... there's only TWO mentions of firearms...both relating to Sturgeon:rolleyes: none related to "concealed"

MULTIPLE hits on the .gov crapola under JUST the F&G code but nothing that I can see related even remotely to fishing.......:cool: nuttin' with "concealed"

Looks like its back to the Penal code(s)...((BARF, cough cough)) Jeepers I hate trudging through the mire..... SOMEBODY's gotta have something more substansive on the fishing aspect of this.......

But I shall return with either something or nothin':eek:

metalhead357
09-05-2007, 6:29 PM
12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or
affect, any of the following:....................

(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying
pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being
concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or
fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when
going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
expedition


THAT is the ONLY 2.5 times "Fishing" is mentioned in all of the 2007 Dangerous Weapons Control Law:kest::stupid:


So there ya' have the extent of the exemption for FISHING. Somebody once told me common sense aint to common and I'm tending to agree. So while it certainly SEEMS logical..... I REALLY think you're gonna get a stare down going under the <wrong> circumstances.

So I aint above saying I dont know, I'm amiss, and/or I made a mistake. There aint no claiber specifics on/with fishing....seems strange though at least to me as there is soooooooooooo much crap on guns.....

Desert Rat
09-05-2007, 6:47 PM
is the question "What happens when I defend against a bear or other dangerous critter when I do or do not have a hunting license, the critter I just shot is out of season, I don't have a tag if in season or, heaven forbid, it is an endangered, protected species?"

I asked a DFG Captain that very question and got a very informative answer. She said, in essence:

Call 911. Ask for DFG. Tell them you have defended against a critter. Tell them where you are, and stay there until they arrive. DFG will examine the scene and determine if your story is straight. Do not gut, skin and take a trophy head prior to their arrival.

metalhead357
09-05-2007, 6:51 PM
VERY good points Desert......

Same hold true for just about any of the predator critters though I suspect with bear and Cats you better have some kind of something resembling proof of where you stood and how close they were while you were in fear for yer' life......I'd like to hope they wouldn't hassle you.

emc002
09-06-2007, 3:49 PM
One can indeed have firearms in Wilderness areas and even hunt in them. What is prohibited in those areas is target shooting and plinking. Otherwords one can only discharge a firearm in an emergency or in taking legal game. So packing a sidearm will hiking thru John Muir Wilderness is 100% legal.

Oops, you are correct!
I was recalling when I got stopped when coming off the John Muir Trail through Devil's Postpile National Monument. I was dog tired, left my sidearm on and guns/hunting there is a no-no. Ranger was actually pretty nice, just had me remove it and stow it.
Thanks for clarifying.

bigiron
02-23-2010, 1:57 PM
Just came across this thread because I am interested in open carry of a wheelgun in the John Muir Wildnerness while backpacking...seems legit if you have a hunting license and can make a case for game species w/appropriate tag or nongame species.

BUT....

The portion of the JMW in Fresno County is also in the nonlead ammo area covered under the Ridley-Tree Condor Preservation Act, so an additional piece of red tape is possessing only certified nonlead ammunition:

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/

Checked the list of ammo for 357/44 mag and the pickings are pretty slim.

Federal now makes copper hollow points for each. Not the best for bear protection, where a soft point would be preferable. Remington and Winchester have no handgun rounds certified at all.

bigiron
02-23-2010, 2:18 PM
During long through backpacking trips every ounce counts, and a firearm is a pretty heavy tool to be lugging around, given the lack of any real threat from black bears.

A S&W Model 60 kit gun w/5-inch barrel is pretty darn light.

Seesm
02-23-2010, 2:40 PM
Really so confusing where you can and where you can't I think we should be able to legally carry if we can legally own a gun... CCW and LOC... Whichever feels right for you.

GrizzlyGuy
02-23-2010, 3:20 PM
During long through backpacking trips every ounce counts, and a firearm is a pretty heavy tool to be lugging around, given the lack of any real threat from black bears.

+1

From the forest service's Wilderness Regulations page (http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sierra/recreation/wilderness/wildregs.shtml):

Do not discharge firearms, air rifles or gas guns, except for emergencies and the taking of legal game, as per the State of California fish and game laws. Target practicing is prohibited and is disturbing to others who seek solitude in the wilderness.

Similar info here (http://www.wilderness.net/index.cfm?fuse=NWPS&sec=wildView&tab=Area%20Management&WID=278):

You may not discharge a firearm, except for emergencies and the taking of game as permitted by State law.

If discharge is prohibited, then carrying loaded is prohibited per state law 12031 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html). See the Firearms in Forests and Parks thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457) for more info.

YubaRiver
02-23-2010, 3:46 PM
You mean concealed loaded carry in wilderness areas is not allowed.

LOC of hunting rifles etc. shouldn't be illegal in wilderness areas.

GrizzlyGuy
02-23-2010, 4:02 PM
You mean concealed loaded carry in wilderness areas is not allowed.

LOC of hunting rifles etc. shouldn't be illegal in wilderness areas.

CA state law 12031 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html) (loaded firearms) takes precedence over CA hunting regulations, whether you are carrying openly or concealed. See here:

Can I carry a concealed weapon while hunting? (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#Can_I_carry_a_concealed_weapon_while_hunting.3 F)

If the feds have prohibited firearm discharge in some part of a wilderness area, then you cannot carry loaded, even if hunting.

joshb
02-23-2010, 5:38 PM
If discharge is prohibited, then carrying loaded is prohibited per state law 12031 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html). See the Firearms in Forests and Parks thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457) for more info.

For clarity however, from what I can tell from the regs (and as I recall, how they're interpreted in the "Firearms in Forests & Parks" thread), they aren't necessarily prohibiting discharge, as they allow it in case of emergency. Which, in turn, means that loaded carry is allowed as long as all other pertinent conditions are met as well.

Am I correct in that line of thinking?

timdps
02-23-2010, 5:46 PM
+1 Just make a lot of noise (pots and pans are good) and chase them away... and yes, I have done that, at night, to a momma bear...

Knew it was a momma bear because when I shined the flashlight down the hill where it went I saw one big set of eyes and three little sets of eyes.

Tim


FWIW, all you're going to find are black bears. I've run into them more than enough for one lifetime, in camp sites, and deep in the forest on trails. The word "Boo" seems to send them running, so I'd not be too worried about them bothering you and needing a sidearm. And truth be told, unless you're packing a 454 or 500S&W, a sidearm is just going to annoy them.

ElvenSoul
02-23-2010, 6:00 PM
Carry Pepper Spray for when you run outta ammo.

yelohamr
02-23-2010, 6:07 PM
...
Hmm, what concealed weapon should I carry when fishing for brook trout?

It would depend on the size of the barrel the fish are in.:D

Meplat
02-23-2010, 6:14 PM
I hunt ground squirrels jackrabbits and varmints with my large handguns and big game rifles. It's great practice.

I thought that National Park thing just went away.:43:

Yep on the hunting bit.....but that ALSO INVOLVES A LICENCE AND VALID TAG AND THE PROPER SEASON.

You could open carry as already said in those places but for concealed carry under the hunter exemption you'd definitely need to have a tag AND IT BE BEAR SEASON. Might argue that you could be hunting squirrels with only a licence and not a bear tag....but anything less than .44/.45/.357 on ya' for bear and you're asking to just piss the bear off...but hunting squirrel with one of those is definitely going to get ya' another couple minutes talk time while they try to figure if yer' serious or not.

Ya' CAN have it concealed at your campsite though (still just not in Nat parks & monuments, etc.)

Meplat
02-23-2010, 6:19 PM
It's up to you but in my experience they don't require quite as much gun as Rainbows or Goldens.:p

I don't think any caliber is mentioned in the law.
Is the regulation based on what species is being hunted or fished?
Hmm, what concealed weapon should I carry when fishing for brook trout?

loather
02-23-2010, 6:33 PM
whoa. someone fed a zombie necrothread!

Meplat
02-23-2010, 6:37 PM
If you are actually hunting the chamber can be loaded. According to the fish and game code a weapon is unloaded if the chamber is empty. The mag can be loaded, but this mostly comes into play while transporting. As in if you are traveling in a vehicle from one field to another while pheasant hunting you must unload the chamber for safety, but the mag can remain loaded also for safety. It avoids excessive manipulation of firearms thus reducing the odds of a mistake.

You haven't lived until you have watched a half dozen nimrods from SF or LA standing in a circle at the end of a central valley maze field unloading their shotguns by repeatedly cycling the actions with a finger in the trigger guard. We locals try to be on the other side of a pickup at times like this.:eek:


Note jack rabbits are always in season.

One point. I think the definition of unloaded is more generous while hunting. A magazine can be in the gun but no round chambered. Anybody know if this is correct?

Meplat
02-23-2010, 6:40 PM
It's for the children!:pReally, if you are concerned about Bears, it's better to get one of those BIG CANS of MACE! They shoot over 20 feet and will be much better at stopping a bear than a handgun. Also, it's much safer and your liability goes down considerably. Don't know if there are any endangered bears, but it would be horrible if you shot one to save your life and old find out in court that you're going to jail for killing an endangered species. HAHAHA

But mace you can use without fear and you can run from the bear knowing he can't see or smell you very well (if he's still stupid enough to chase you).

Simple Advice from Adog5

GrizzlyGuy
02-23-2010, 6:50 PM
For clarity however, from what I can tell from the regs (and as I recall, how they're interpreted in the "Firearms in Forests & Parks" thread), they aren't necessarily prohibiting discharge, as they allow it in case of emergency. Which, in turn, means that loaded carry is allowed as long as all other pertinent conditions are met as well.

Am I correct in that line of thinking?

I don't think so, I agree with Gene's interpretation (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3850986&postcount=66) even though he is talking about national parks instead of wilderness areas. If you are walking around LOC in an area where the feds only allow discharge in an emergency, you would be violating 12031 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html) since an emergency does not yet exist.

12031(j) (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html) allows you to load in such a case:

Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the person or property of himself or herself or of another is in immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property...

However, it doesn't allow you to LOC just in case an emergency situation arises. My read is that the feds intend the same thing with their no-discharge regulations: you wouldn't be allowed to LOC in normal circumstances, but would be allowed to load and fire in an emergency.

7x57
02-23-2010, 6:56 PM
I don't think any caliber is mentioned in the law.
Is the regulation based on what species is being hunted or fished?
Hmm, what concealed weapon should I carry when fishing for brook trout?

I'd suggest not carrying a weapon that won't pass the laugh test for the purpose.

7x57

Meplat
02-23-2010, 7:02 PM
:p You missed my point entirely.....but actually YES, there are minimum requirements for hunting big game...MUST be centerfire and use soft nose or expanding bullets. MY point is/was that you're probably not going to be hasseld if you're hunting wabbitts with a .22 pistol...but you're going to do 'some 'splaining if you're gofer hunting with a .50 BMG.

Ask just about any duty cop and they'll tell ya' 9 outta 10 times its what people say that gets them incriminated and hauled off rather than what they did......

So while hunting any particular game species doesnt require caliber specific....I would venture to say whatever you are hunting the weapon/caliber need to be PROPORTIONATE;) Walk around the high altitude woods (with no rabbits or squirrels) with a shotgun and 7 shot and you're going to get looked at a lil' harder....tell them you're hunting coyote and they're going to stare even harder....tell them that 7 shot is for your protection against Big bad black bears and you might just have to explain yourselves back at the office so everyone can laugh while they cite you......

For What, hunting ground squralls? Gray squerals, mountain quail, marmonts, brush rabbits, band tailed pigions, or just being dumb enough to hunt cyots with #7 shot. Oh, silly me I thought that was #1 Buck.

:

Bear aint always in season.... PIG is, coyote is, jack (not cottontail) always is, so are a few others and some 'non game' species. Cross paths with a warden while carrying a .44 with 300gr loads and go ahead and tell him you're hunting song birds:rolleyes:...just have a good wife or lawyer to be able to come pick you up when you're done at the DFG office....... THAT is all I'm saying.

You CAN carry openly in the proscribed places and not even be hunting....target shooting *may* be valid in a lot of areas. But the moment you cross over into CONCEALED territory you better be LEO, have a CCW, be in your own campsite (only), or be a hunter With a VALID licence and appropriate tags (if in season) or get a year round tag for pigs...or be hunting coyotes (but HOnestly...who is going to belive you're hunting coyotes with a *regular* pistol? ...I'm not talking some 8+ inch hunter magnum or T/C contender with a 15 inch barrel). There ARE some other exceptions to the ccw-mode but most aint relevant here-- like with an enetertainment permit....or security guard with proper training/certification WHILE ON DUTY

Do you not see the real world value of real life unpridictable training with full power weapons? I thought so, so will the warden. FUD.

Besides in these circomstances you can carry for self defense, frome bears or humans or whatever. I would be more conserned about lead free ammo than carrying. I would carry open anyway even though I have a CCW as it is expected in these environs and will not rais an eyebrow, .


:
Do CCW right or dont do it; it just gives fodder to our enemies and thier blasted stats. Know what the laws are...including the Game ones

Now WHY I said .45/.44/.357 minimum for Bear is quite frankly anyone who's anyone thats ever shot a bear will tell ya' they Big-Arsed critters and anything 'smaller' quite simply is NOT going to penetrate...not even your 38+P+P or your 9mm...while your .40 might work on a smaller one it sure as spit aint gonna bring down a charging full grown adult bear......

As always YMMV........ just do it right or dont do it; the woods are fun but they aint no place to go 'playin' if bears are around and you are actually concerened about running into one; HIGHLY unlikely but it does happen. One of the BEST methods yet mentioned is to simply BE LOUD IN THE WOODS and most (incl. bears) will simply avoid you.

p_shooter
02-23-2010, 7:02 PM
Some of these Mary-Jane busts are in places you might not expect, places you'd think are relatively safe from this type of activity. I would have never guessed that one of the largests drug busts in California history would have occured near Independence earlier this summer. Farms were found near Hogback Cr (between Lone Pine and Mt. Whitney - used to hunt cottontail over there as a kid!), Shephard Creek, Baxter Pass, and Little Lake.

http://www.inyoregister.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1326&Itemid=27

John

Whoa! I hike/camp all over in there (hogback creek). That's the only place I've encountered a bear face to face. I can't believe that place would be considered for a garden. It doesn't seem remote enough for covered with enough foliage to disguise the operation.

I've encountered both Mountain Lion (once) and black bear (once) in the mountains, both times it was a fleeting glimpse as the animal beat feet away from us. I pack heat outdoors more for defense against two legged animals, since I've had far more frightening encounters with them.

Another place I used to frequent was Sierra Azul above Lexington in Los Gatos. They had a huge bust there not too long ago and during the raid ended up killing one of the "farmeros" who took a shot at a Ranger.

bigiron
02-23-2010, 7:10 PM
However, it doesn't allow you to LOC just in case an emergency situation arises. My read is that the feds intend the same thing with their no-discharge regulations: you wouldn't be allowed to LOC in normal circumstances, but would be allowed to load and fire in an emergency.

The reason the Forest Service doesn't allow discharge in Wilderness Areas except for emergencies or taking game is to preserve the "wilderness experience." In otherwords, the plinking and target shooting might infringe on the solitude of other users. In practical terms, less thoughtful shooters would probably leave brass/shell casings/target material trash laying about, which is definitely something the USFS wants curtailed in the wilderness.

They are pretty strict about what kind of hunting you can do in the wilderness, too. No ATVs, or even wheeled travois to get carcasses out to your vehicle--you either need to pack it out on foot or use pack animals.

From the Sierra National Forest (which admins JMW) website:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sierra/recreation/wilderness/wildregs.shtml

Do not discharge firearms, air rifles or gas guns, except for emergencies and the taking of legal game, as per the State of California fish and game laws. Target practicing is prohibited and is disturbing to others who seek solitude in the wilderness.

It would stand to reason that if you are hunting on foot in the wilderness with the aim of taking legal game that your firearm would be loaded.

GrizzlyGuy
02-23-2010, 7:17 PM
The reason the Forest Service doesn't allow discharge in Wilderness Areas except for emergencies or taking game is to preserve the "wilderness experience." In otherwords, the plinking and target shooting might infringe on the solitude of other users. In practical terms, less thoughtful shooters would probably leave brass/shell casings/target material trash laying about, which is definitely something the USFS wants curtailed in the wilderness.

They are pretty strict about what kind of hunting you can do in the wilderness, too. No ATVs, or even wheeled travois to get carcasses out to your vehicle--you either need to pack it out on foot or use pack animals.

From the Sierra National Forest (which admins JMW) website:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sierra/recreation/wilderness/wildregs.shtml

Do not discharge firearms, air rifles or gas guns, except for emergencies and the taking of legal game, as per the State of California fish and game laws. Target practicing is prohibited and is disturbing to others who seek solitude in the wilderness.

It would stand to reason that if you are hunting on foot in the wilderness with the aim of taking legal game that your firearm would be loaded.

Yes, if you are in an area where hunting is allowed, carrying loaded would be fine: loaded but not chambered (per the DFG hunting regs). If discharge isn't prohibited and you aren't hunting, then loaded and chambered would be fine.

Mitch
02-24-2010, 6:40 AM
A S&W Model 60 kit gun w/5-inch barrel is pretty darn light.

Seriously, the same weight in extra socks would be far more useful.

bigstick61
02-24-2010, 11:36 AM
Personally, I think that if you're carrying a weapon for potential use against a dangerous animal, it shold be a decent rifle, not a handgun, but that's just my opinion.

YubaRiver
02-24-2010, 11:50 AM
Yes, if you are in an area where hunting is allowed, carrying loaded would be fine: loaded but not chambered (per the DFG hunting regs). If discharge isn't prohibited and you aren't hunting, then loaded and chambered would be fine.


So you're saying if I am hunting wilderness areas, I cannot have my single shot
rifle loaded, but have to wait till I see game?

Meplat
02-24-2010, 1:57 PM
You want confusing? You can finnish off a big game animal with a pistol. Except when bow hunting. You cannot have a pistol when bow hunting during bow season, however you can still carry to and from bow hunting.


You didn't address my question about fishing, which is an exception, along with hunting.
Nowhere in the regulations discussed here do I see a requirement for a specific caliber.
I see nothing about the concealed weapon being the firearm used for hunting or fishing. Big trouble if using a gun for fishing!
Besides that, using your argument, could not a concealed caliber revolver, like a .22 .32, .38, .40, .41, .44., .45, be used as the "coup de grâce" if needed for suffering prey?
That makes more sense to me than a finishing close-up shot with a 45-70 405 grain bullet out of my ported-barrel Marlin Guide Gun.
Please, metalhead357, don't think I'm being argumentative- I'm not.
This is a valid discussion of our confusing laws!
I'm grateful for this forum and your input so we can try to sort this kinda stuff out.

Meplat
02-24-2010, 2:09 PM
+10000 A handgun is only going to piss off a bear. I still bring my Glock w/ me when hiking but that's to stop people. For bears I carry "Bear Spray" which is pepper spray. I also wear a bear bell (both available from REI). The bell annoys my wife but I haven't had any problems w/ bears on the trail - hardly even see them. I'll occasionally hear one sniffing around at night but they're just looking for food which as long as it's properly stored you have little to fear.

That reminds me of an old joke. the punch line of which is:

" Well.... Grizzly scat is usually larger, and full of little bells!":eek::p

Meplat
02-24-2010, 2:16 PM
That's just great. If the bear doesn't eat me, the marywanna grower doesn't shoot me or i don't get killed by the meth cookers toxic chemicals, i gotta worry about being eaten by sharks. I think i'll sell my deer rifle and take up knitting.

:rofl2:

Meplat
02-24-2010, 2:23 PM
It's not in F&G code, it's in PC, a nod to the Eddy Bauer types.

Ok, I'm stumped...but I've always readily admitted my PDF- Google-FU SUXXXX big time.

After perusin' the DFG website's PDF of all things related to freshwater FISHING.... there's only TWO mentions of firearms...both relating to Sturgeon:rolleyes: none related to "concealed"

MULTIPLE hits on the .gov crapola under JUST the F&G code but nothing that I can see related even remotely to fishing.......:cool: nuttin' with "concealed"

Looks like its back to the Penal code(s)...((BARF, cough cough)) Jeepers I hate trudging through the mire..... SOMEBODY's gotta have something more substansive on the fishing aspect of this.......

But I shall return with either something or nothin':eek:

Meplat
02-24-2010, 2:28 PM
Do not gut, skin and take a trophy head prior to their arrival.

:rofl2:

GrizzlyGuy
02-24-2010, 4:44 PM
So you're saying if I am hunting wilderness areas, I cannot have my single shot
rifle loaded, but have to wait till I see game?

Check the hunting regulations, I may be remembering a DFG restriction that only applies when you are in/on a vehicle and not while you are on foot as you would be in a wilderness area.

hawk84
02-24-2010, 8:16 PM
Really, if you are concerned about Bears, it's better to get one of those BIG CANS of MACE! They shoot over 20 feet and will be much better at stopping a bear than a handgun. Also, it's much safer and your liability goes down considerably. Don't know if there are any endangered bears, but it would be horrible if you shot one to save your life and old find out in court that you're going to jail for killing an endangered species. HAHAHA

But mace you can use without fear and you can run from the bear knowing he can't see or smell you very well (if he's still stupid enough to chase you).

Simple Advice from Adog5

the only bears in CA are black bears- they aren't endangered- not even close