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View Full Version : Virginia Tech is blamed in rampage report


WolfMansDad
08-30-2007, 10:42 AM
WASHINGTON -- A panel investigating the shooting rampage at Virginia Tech on April 16 that left 33 people dead and a campus in turmoil issued a report today criticizing the university for a lack of communication and school officials for failing to "connect the dots" on gunman Seung-hui Cho's mental instability.

"During Cho's junior year at Virginia Tech, numerous incidents occurred that were clear warnings of mental instability," the report said. "Although various individuals and departments knew about each of these incidents, the university did not intervene effectively."

...


Link: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-vtech31aug31,0,7343820.story?coll=la-home-center

The more I ponder this, the more convinced I become that ccw on campus, combined with armed campus police, is the right way to handle this kind of problem. If you start locking up all students who act odd, you're going to lock up a lot of kids. There will be civil liberties problems, etc. Obviously, banning weapons from campus doesn't work, nor will trying to restrict who gets access to them.

Campus ccw has the wonderful property that it need not even be excercised to work (exercised in the sense that shots need not be fired). These nut cases are usually also cowards. If they knew somebody might shoot back, they would be less likely to go on a spree.

mecam
08-30-2007, 10:49 AM
If I were to go back to college, I would be packing my HK40 whether it's illegal or legal. You never know now these days.

ghostwong
08-30-2007, 11:08 AM
+1 to that. The Virgina Tech admin should be blamed, and held responsible or their lack of insight and lack or duty to protect te students. I say CCW's to who qualify.

If I were to go back to college, I would be packing my HK40 whether it's illegal or legal. You never know now these days.

mecam
08-30-2007, 11:22 AM
Let say if there was another student who had his gun with him, bought legally and he ended up killing Cho when he busted in his class. Do you think he will be charged with manslaughter? I wouldn't think so because it's self defense.

Now, But if he went after Cho to another class trying to save other people and killed him. He may get charged for Manslaughter.

What would you guys do if you were there and carrying illegally? Would you wait for him to come to your class or would you try to save others?


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Sutcliffe
08-30-2007, 11:31 AM
My university still sticks it's head in the sand and wants to pretend that the city police department will be able to mobilize a force and interdict if anyone goes on a similar rampage.

bulgron
08-30-2007, 12:26 PM
What would you guys do if you were there and carrying illegally? Would you wait for him to come to your class or would you try to save others?


I'd wait for him to come to me. That puts me on the best possible footing from a legal defense point of view once the shooting is all over and done with.

I'd feel bad, of course, that other people got killed who I could have saved if I went after the gun man, but the fact is that we're all supposed to be responsible for our own self defense. If others don't or won't get that and so aren't prepared to deal with the crazies, I ultimately can't believe I'm morally required to help them.

tlillard23
08-30-2007, 12:33 PM
Yea right, BWO didn't even carry. Where's he????
Someone will see your carry piece and drop a dime on you.

mecam
08-30-2007, 12:53 PM
Yea right, BWO didn't even carry. Where's he????
Someone will see your carry piece and drop a dime on you.

You can only get in trouble if you get caught. It's your responsibility to conceal your weapon so noone will ever see it. I say loaded mag but empty chamber so if you get caught, it's a lesser charge. My co-worker works late at night and rides BART. He's been carrying illegally for 4 years now for protection. Just don't do anything stupid like showing it off and you'll be fine.

StukaJr
08-30-2007, 1:11 PM
Yea right, BWO didn't even carry. Where's he????
Someone will see your carry piece and drop a dime on you.

You concentrate on "Carry" and miss "Conceal" - conceal carry does not just include "not visible on the person", it also includes not bragging to people that you carry or even hint on the fact that you can...

DedEye
08-30-2007, 1:17 PM
Blaming the admininistration of VT is wrong. It was the moronic psycho's fault for what he did and he alone is to blame.

Also, UCPD is an armed and sworn department.

WolfMansDad
08-30-2007, 1:19 PM
You guys advocating illegal carry, be careful. Check out ajax's post one level up.

Media attention aside, school shootings are relatively rare. I would guess your chances of getting caught carrying illegally far outweigh your chances of using your gun in self defense. That is, unless you have some glaring reason to think a specific person is about to go nuts, and you have already notified the proper authorities.

Edited to add: It's not the rare individual carrying illegally that deters the school shooter, unless that individual happens to be there and be armed when the bad stuff starts. Much more important is the fear that someone might be carrying in the class he targets. Public knowledge that people routinely carry in schools, whether legally or illegally, will prevent many tragedies from even getting started. Remember the old saying, "Society is safer when criminals don't know who is armed."

virulosity
08-30-2007, 1:21 PM
Let say if there was another student who had his gun with him, bought legally and he ended up killing Cho when he busted in his class. Do you think he will be charged with manslaughter?
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If it was in CA, YES.

mecam
08-30-2007, 1:51 PM
If it was in CA, YES.

I would rather battle it in court than be dead..

SuperSet
08-30-2007, 3:50 PM
+1 to that. The Virgina Tech admin should be blamed, and held responsible or their lack of insight and lack or duty to protect te students. I say CCW's to who qualify.

Exactly my thoughts too. Because the school administration chose to define and enforce their own local policies and strip CCW-ers of their own state-granted rights, they bear the consequences of those actions. Either the school officials are responsible for the students' safety or they are not. There is no in-between there.
Having said all that, I think it's a mistake for us to assume that CCW is a panacea. I view CCW like they having a sky marshal on airplanes. They really are the very, very last line of defense so somebody screwed up already if that sky marshal has to draw his weapon.

Roo
08-30-2007, 4:07 PM
If I were to go back to college, I would be packing my HK40 whether it's illegal or legal. You never know now these days.

And if that firearm was found on you while at school you would not only be kicked from the school but may have a hard chance finding a school to attend.

KenpoProfessor
08-30-2007, 4:09 PM
What I find odd is that no one has even mentioned if a CWP holder was in the group that got shot or killed. If there was, and he was disarmed at the time, I can see no reason why they wouldn't be able to sue the University.

If I go into Costco or Fry's Electronics without my weapon and I'm assaulted, you can bet your a ss that I'm suing the pants off the corps..

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

mecam
08-30-2007, 4:43 PM
And if that firearm was found on you while at school you would not only be kicked from the school but may have a hard chance finding a school to attend.

That's the chance I'm willing to take. Not being able to go back to school is not the end of life, but a bullet can. Even though getting shot at school by a psycho is very slim to none, I would feel more comfortable knowing I can defend myself. So many damn school shooting now a days.

FWIW, My cousin and my friend were both arrested for having a firearm under their driver's seat. Both charges were dropped to misdemeanor because they had good records. But they never got their firearms back though. Ironically both incidents happened at South San Francisco with SSFPD.

SemiAutoSam
08-30-2007, 6:04 PM
Link states collage shooter could have been treated.

Parents knew of his condition at a young age and did nothing to help.

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/usa/features/article_1349965.php/A_chilling_thought_college_shooter_could_have_been _treated

tlillard23
08-31-2007, 2:53 PM
What I am saying is THIS!!!
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=67652

have a day

Californio
08-31-2007, 3:01 PM
My kids College has a new text message system and I am trying to get her to get one of the backpacks that have a ballistic shield built in, at least it would give her a chance if she was hiding from a shooter.

http://www.mychildspack.com/

mecam
08-31-2007, 3:10 PM
My kids College has a new text message system and I am trying to get her to get one of the backpacks that have a ballistic shield built in, at least it would give her a chance if she was hiding from a shooter.

http://www.mychildspack.com/


The VT shooter was walking up to the victims and blowing their heads off. I think your best bet is to run. If you get as far as 20 yards from the shooter, your chances of getting shot at that distance is slim to none with a handgun. Unless the shooter is a competitive shooter.

Californio
08-31-2007, 3:30 PM
The VT shooter was walking up to the victims and blowing their heads off. I think your best bet is to run. If you get as far as 20 yards from the shooter, your chances of getting shot at that distance is slim to none with a handgun. Unless the shooter is a competitive shooter.

First she is a girl, doesn't have the big T to help her out, and is a liberal at this stage in her life, sadly swallows the preach of the Profs, makes for some tense times around the dinner table during the summer.:D So I doubt she would run, so we do what we can. My other just turned 10 and shoots my childhood Remington 512, she would do battle.

I remember my first life and death, a fire in an apartment building when my parents were building a house, I was 16, myself and a merchant mariner were the only ones out of about 30 people that stepped up to the plate and fought the fire before the FD arrived 20 minutes latter, the other 28 including my father walked around like Zombies - in shock. I was so high on the big A, it took 48 hours to calm down. Most people talk a big story but usually freeze, when the SHTF without prior training.