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Bushtree
08-29-2007, 2:56 PM
Hey guys, I tried searching but wasn't able to find anything that answers what im looking for. I've tried reading the CA Laws but an throughly confused.

Anways, I am a CA resident, but living in AZ for the time being.

Could i purchase an M1 Garand (C&R Rifle) from an AZ resident while living here in arizona even though im a ca resident? If so could i do a face to face sale, or go though an AZ FFL? I wont be back in CA for some months, so transferring it to a CA FFL doesnt really work. And if so, in a couple of months when i come back to CA what would i need to do, to bring it back legally?


My second question is, could i go into a Gun Shop here in AZ and purchase an OLL then put a Maglock with a 10rd mag in it, yhus making it CA legal (fixed mag) and then bring it back into CA in a couple of months. If so, what are the steps to bring it back legally?

Thanks for all your help,

blkA4alb
08-29-2007, 3:47 PM
As a resident of California you cannot purchase a firearm out of your state of residence (there are a few exceptions I believe.)

If you were to become an AZ resident and then wish to move back into California with the Garand you bought then all you have to do is drive it across the boarder. There is no registration process or such to go through. Same goes for the California legal AR lower.

hoffmang
08-29-2007, 3:52 PM
Older than 50 years and not a handgun can probably be transacted out of state as long as it is legal in the state you're in.

I'd want to double check the PC, but I can't think of any problem specifically with a transaction that fit those details.

-Gene

ghettoshecky
08-29-2007, 5:27 PM
I'm curious about this too. It seems Hoffmang and Blk are contradicting each other. Blk seems to say no dice, while Hoffmang says there are exceptions with a C&R. Can someone please give more input.

hoffmang
08-29-2007, 5:34 PM
OP's second question wasn't there when I posted.

Here is the way I understand it (and as an 03 FFL, I may get this wrong because I don't have to focus on not being an 03 FFL.)

1. Longguns under 50 years old and all handguns can not be purchased and taken delivery of out of state if you are a CA resident. You can buy the firearm and have it transferred to your favorite CA 01 FFL for transfer as if you bought on gunbroker.

2. Longguns over 50 years old are elligible for face to face, cash and carry inside California. My understanding of Federal Firearms law is that longguns can be sold by a state resident to a resident of another state as long as that sale is legal in both the state of residence of the buyer and the seller.

3. Handguns can only be sold to a resident of the same state.

So, no dice on the OLL but you could - with a co-operative AZ FFL - install a mag lock so it can be sent to a CA FFL. If the Garand is old enough - you can probably do the transaction but it is a federal law question that I'm too busy right now to go look up. If you had an 03 FFL you could buy any C&R anywhere.

-Gene

BrianK_73
08-29-2007, 7:04 PM
For the most accurate information, call a gun shop. They are usually a lot more knowledgable.

If you are going to be in AZ a while, think about getting a driver's license and CCW (I highly recommend John Hanson http://www.blackwolfccw.com/). AZ doesn't distinguish between resident and non-resident for our CCW's and it's good everywhere I want to go and a few places I don't.

EOD Guy
08-29-2007, 7:34 PM
For the most accurate information, call a gun shop. They are usually a lot more knowledgable.

If you are going to be in AZ a while, think about getting a driver's license and CCW (I highly recommend John Hanson http://www.blackwolfccw.com/). AZ doesn't distinguish between resident and non-resident for our CCW's and it's good everywhere I want to go and a few places I don't.


Or get an Arizona ID card with your Arizona address.

Mssr. Eleganté
08-29-2007, 10:13 PM
2. ...My understanding of Federal Firearms law is that longguns can be sold by a state resident to a resident of another state as long as that sale is legal in both the state of residence of the buyer and the seller.

It's true that unlicensed individuals can buy long guns while they are in another state, but Federal law requires that they buy them only from an FFL in that state and only at the FFL's licensed premises.

And since the transaction has to be legal in both states, out of state FFL's can only sell C&R long guns over 50 years old to visiting Californians.

hoffmang
08-29-2007, 10:15 PM
AII, Thanks for having my back. As I said, my 03 FFL means I don't pay as close attention.

-Gene

Bushtree
08-30-2007, 12:11 AM
About getting an AZ ID card/drivers license.. This really wouldnt help anything right? Since i would still be a CA resident, just with an AZ ID?

It's true that unlicensed individuals can buy long guns while they are in another state, but Federal law requires that they buy them only from an FFL in that state and only at the FFL's licensed premises.

And since the transaction has to be legal in both states, out of state FFL's can only sell C&R long guns over 50 years old to visiting Californians.

What if a FFL in AZ were to sell a visiting Californian a long gun (non C&R). What should be done if that were to happen?

Bushtree
08-30-2007, 12:14 AM
2. Longguns over 50 years old are elligible for face to face, cash and carry inside California. My understanding of Federal Firearms law is that longguns can be sold by a state resident to a resident of another state as long as that sale is legal in both the state of residence of the buyer and the seller.


So with the Seller being AZ and the Buyer being CA it wouldnt be legal correct?

hoffmang
08-30-2007, 12:42 AM
You could go through an AZ FFL for the over 50 year old long gun.

If you are in AZ long enough, its relatively easy to become a resident for Federal purposes as long as you're a resident in the eyes of AZ.

-Gene

tenpercentfirearms
08-30-2007, 6:23 AM
For the most accurate information, call a gun shop. They are usually a lot more knowledgable.

I don't think this is a good idea. I have no clue how this works because I have a Class 01 FFL and I know I can buy guns in and out of state all I want, so I don't pay attention to what you guys can do. Second, I don't care as much about keeping you out of jail as you should. :p

If you want a good answer, trying calling the CA DOJ. As much as some people dislike them, their job is to answer questions like these. You just might want to call back three times and ask three different people to see if the majority agrees! :D

chico.cm
09-02-2007, 10:17 PM
Not to hijack, but is it legal for a relative of another state, (e.g. Mom or Dad), to purchase a weapon and transfer it to me and then I bring it home to CA? (This assumes that the weapon is legal to own in CA)

hoffmang
09-02-2007, 10:20 PM
Mom or Dad can transfer things to you in CA as long as you follow Federal Law in completing the transfer and fill out the transfer by operation of law form with the CA DOJ.

-Gene

chico.cm
09-02-2007, 10:35 PM
Thanks Gene.
PM on the way.

EOD Guy
09-03-2007, 7:00 AM
Not to hijack, but is it legal for a relative of another state, (e.g. Mom or Dad), to purchase a weapon and transfer it to me and then I bring it home to CA? (This assumes that the weapon is legal to own in CA)

No, it is not legal. The transfer must be made through a California dealer. Federal law forbids firearms transfers between unlicensed residents of different states. Family relationship has no bearing.

Dump1567
09-03-2007, 10:18 AM
From the ATF FAQ:


(B12) May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State? [Back (http://javascript<b></b>:history.back(1))]
If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.
[27 CFR 478.11]


Per the ATF, if your currently residing in AZ, you can buy guns their. You just need to comply with the states requirements (AZ requires an AZ I.D. card or DL, 4473 and instant check or CCW to waive instant check).

Anything brought back to CA, must comply with CA law.

tjgroves
09-03-2007, 11:57 AM
Anything brought back to CA, must comply with CA law

Does that include being on the Roster of Handguns? I ask because I am planning on attending my last 2 years of college in a free state, and figured as long as I am there why not get some more toys I can not get here?

I guess if push came to shove I could drop my CA residency completely, but I would rather not have to update my C&R address, etc.

Bushtree
09-03-2007, 12:05 PM
From the ATF FAQ:
Per the ATF, if your currently residing in AZ, you can buy guns their. You just need to comply with the states requirements (AZ requires an AZ I.D. card or DL, 4473 and instant check or CCW to waive instant check).

Anything brought back to CA, must comply with CA law.

Does this mean, that although a CA "Resident" i can legally purchase guns in AZ seeing as i live in AZ. (legally on paper im a CA resident, but i currently reside in AZ).

And then as long as their CA-legal i can bring them back to CA? No need to transfer them to a CA FFL when moving back and all that?

Dump1567
09-03-2007, 1:06 PM
Does this mean, that although a CA "Resident" i can legally purchase guns in AZ seeing as i live in AZ. (legally on paper im a CA resident, but i currently reside in AZ).

And then as long as their CA-legal i can bring them back to CA? No need to transfer them to a CA FFL when moving back and all that?

These are my opinions, and others will vary.

First off, I'm not a lawyer, but if the federal agency that governs the sale of firearms (BATFE) says you can buy guns in AZ because your residing their, I don't see how CA has jurisdiction over what you do in AZ. (As long as your complying with AZ law to buy guns.)

I haven't seen anything in the C.P.C. that prevents legally aquired firearms from being brought into the state. New residents to the State are required to register handguns, but your not a new resident based on the Penal code requirements for new resident. I would recommend doing a voluntary registration on any handgun brought into the state.

Dump1567
09-03-2007, 1:10 PM
Does that include being on the Roster of Handguns? I ask because I am planning on attending my last 2 years of college in a free state, and figured as long as I am there why not get some more toys I can not get here?

I guess if push came to shove I could drop my CA residency completely, but I would rather not have to update my C&R address, etc.

If your going to be gone for 2 years, just become a resident of that state. Bring back whatever handguns you bought, and register them as a new resident.

Why not change your C&R address? Than you could have C&R handguns mailed directly too you. 2 years is a long time.

hoffmang
09-03-2007, 1:16 PM
Does that include being on the Roster of Handguns? I ask because I am planning on attending my last 2 years of college in a free state, and figured as long as I am there why not get some more toys I can not get here?

I guess if push came to shove I could drop my CA residency completely, but I would rather not have to update my C&R address, etc.

ATF particularly agrees that college students become residents of both their home state and the state they attend school in. All you'll need to do is whatever the state you are in requires of you to buy firearms. It may be that you have to apply for a non Drivers License ID.

-Gene