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View Full Version : OBAMACARE AMENDMENT FORBIDS GUN AND AMMO REGISTRATION


smogcity
01-09-2013, 1:59 PM
It seems that in their haste to cram socialized medicine down the throats of the American people, then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and Barack Obama overlooked Senate amendment 3276, Sec. 2716, part c.

According to reports, that amendment says the government cannot collect "any information relating to the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition."

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/09/Backfire-Obamacare-Forbids-Gun-and-Ammo-Registration

From the comments:
The key phrase, "...nor shall such data be collected on individuals." That means, the government cannot collect information about lawful ownership of firearms or ammunition.

Just when I think nothing can suprise me anymore...

SilverTauron
01-09-2013, 2:01 PM
The FOPA already bans that practice since 1986 . They'll ignore this rule too.

Intimid8tor
01-09-2013, 2:03 PM
Wouldn't that be the ultimate irony. Not that it will stop him from doing it.

NytWolf
01-09-2013, 2:07 PM
Read Ken M's and Tom Caso's comments in the comments section. It has nothing to do with 2A. Pinch yourself and wake up.

Ken M says:
This is a restriction placed on health care providers NOT the government. It neither strengthens or weakens the 2nd Amendment. It has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment.

Tom Caso furthers:
The section goes further to prohibit government collection of data -- but it is limited to government action pursuant to the health care law.

SmallShark
01-09-2013, 2:11 PM
Obama boosts gun sales and Feinstein is helping the industry maxing profit margin.

LibertyDeath
01-09-2013, 2:13 PM
Which in turn is providing funding for pro 2A causes, right?

safewaysecurity
01-09-2013, 2:14 PM
How would that make him the defender? You think he's going to veto his signature legislation because of a little almost insignificant clause about doctors being a backdoor to gun registration?

Sarde
01-09-2013, 2:33 PM
The FOPA already bans that practice since 1986 . They'll ignore this rule too.

I had wondered why Feinstein's bill wants to make EBR & other common arms NFA items. But reading up on the FOPA, I see that the FOPA allows for a registration only under the NFA. Tricky!

Marthor
01-09-2013, 2:36 PM
Holy Smokes!
It's the law of the land!
Yes!
There was somethig good in that bill afterall!

smogcity
01-09-2013, 2:47 PM
How would that make him the defender?

The thread title says Obamacare, not obama

komifornian
01-09-2013, 2:51 PM
What the "F" are you talking about??? I smell a troll and it smells like Palosi's ***

Rusty_Rebar
01-09-2013, 2:57 PM
I get really worried when we write laws that say what a doctor can and cannot do with regard to patient care.

I am utterly against using health professionals to collect data on people for government use.

But for a doctor to have a discussion with their patient about guns does seem like a legitimate medical discussion. Just like talking about driving habits, eating habits, use of drugs (legal and illegal).

It seems especially important for a mental health provider to have this kind of conversation. I am not advocating for them giving that info to the government, but they should be able to have a conversation about legitimate medical concerns without government interference.

smogcity
01-09-2013, 3:04 PM
I get really worried when we write laws that say what a doctor can and cannot do with regard to patient care.

I am utterly against using health professionals to collect data on people for government use.

But for a doctor to have a discussion with their patient about guns does seem like a legitimate medical discussion. Just like talking about driving habits, eating habits, use of drugs (legal and illegal).

It seems especially important for a mental health provider to have this kind of conversation. I am not advocating for them giving that info to the government, but they should be able to have a conversation about legitimate medical concerns without government interference.

Uh, no.

Check the prostate, but please don't ask what books i read, if I go to church or not, if I have a gun or not, etc. Since you have a +/-50% chance of a gungrabber for your doctor, why don't we not give him the power to put you on a 2A "no-fly" list because of his personal feelings. Now take your finger out of my ***. ;)

CBruce
01-09-2013, 3:14 PM
Maybe this is all part of a secret plan to boost the lagging economy.

22browning
01-09-2013, 3:17 PM
Obama boosts gun sales and Feinstein is helping the industry maxing profit margin.

How's this for a conspiracy: What are Obama's and DiFi's stock positions in relation to all this? :) Sorry, too hard to resist.

safewaysecurity
01-09-2013, 3:18 PM
The thread title says Obamacare, not obama

Woops my bad.

YubaRiver
01-09-2013, 3:19 PM
Uh, no.

Check the prostate, but please don't ask what books i read, if I go to church or not, if I have a gun or not, etc. Since you have a +/-50% chance of a gungrabber for your doctor, why don't we not give him the power to put you on a 2A "no-fly" list because of his personal feelings. Now take your finger out of my ***. ;)

Asking is different than teaching. Doctors shouldn't ask if you have a gun,
belong to a particular religious group etc. They shouldn't collect data without
permission.

They should teach all their patients about health issues and safe
living. IE if they want to hand out a paper on safe gun storage or the
health hazards of tobacco use to everyone, fine.

Rusty_Rebar
01-09-2013, 3:22 PM
Well, I don't see what books I read, or my religious affiliation (or lack thereof) has any bearing on health, but if it did somehow, I would not object to my doctor talking to me about the subject.. I do see how talking to patients about being safe and responsible with firearms (especially if there are children, or mentally disturbed people in the household) does have a bearing on health.

I am not talking about delivering this information to the government. That I would see as a clear violation of my privacy, just as if they were to give the government information pertaining to my indigestion.

To tell a doctor how to practice medicine seems ill advised.

And since when is our side against talking about gun safety?

chiselchst
01-09-2013, 5:28 PM
Harry Reid has been given credit (in 2010) for allowing the NRA to insert the following text in to the 2,800 page Health Care Initiative ([Obama Care] although as a Politician, Henry has "modified" his position recently"):

Senate amendment 3276, Sec 2716, part C:
``(2) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION.--None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the collection of any information relating to--
``(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition;
``(B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or
``(C) the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/09/Backfire-Obamacare-Forbids-Gun-and-Ammo-Registration

http://www.examiner.com/article/gun-control-executive-order-could-conflict-with-provisions-passed-obamacare?cid=PROD-redesign-right-next

http://times247.com/articles/obamacare-term-forbids-gun-ammo-registration

http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolynmcclanahan/2012/07/23/gun-owner-rights-and-obamacare-yes-it-is-in-the-law/

http://www.examiner.com/article/gun-control-executive-order-could-conflict-with-provisions-passed-obamacare?cid=PROD-redesign-right-next

dustoff31
01-09-2013, 6:00 PM
Probably not. I can't see how this law would matter much to a person prepared to ignore Congress and issue EO's to do whatever he wants to do.

JochenWeber
01-09-2013, 6:01 PM
By golly, Nancy Pelosi was right ó they didnít know what was in ObamaCare until it passed! Of course, in this case all she needed to do was ask her buddy Harry Reid, who apparently sandbagged his partyís gun-control wing by inserting an interesting clause in the 2800-page bill that no one in Congress bothered to read before voting on it. CNNís Jim Acosta reveals the restriction on firearms-registration data collection built into the 2010 law:

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/01/09/video-secret-gun-rights-provision-in-obamacare/

berto
01-09-2013, 6:01 PM
The Secretary is the cabinet official under whose supervision Obamacare is run. That cabinet department can't collect the barred info as part of any Obamacare program. Nothing prevents DOJ or some other .gov agency from collecting said info under an AWB or other legislation. The Obamacare restriction is to keep HHS or whatever dept runs the program from collecting the info during medical screenings. Unless I'm wrong. Which could be the case because I, like most of congress, never read the entire document before or since it was approved.

Heatseeker
01-09-2013, 6:29 PM
Whether or not it helps our cause, this is classic! The Washington clowns don't have a flippin' clue what these bills contain when they vote for them. Absolutely classic...

Calplinker
01-09-2013, 6:41 PM
Yes!!!! This is exactly what we need right now!!!!

Let's make sure to post this useless and outdated informaton yet again in another post very, very soon!!!!!!!!

HINT: This whole issue is 2A neutral. ;)

gimebakmybulits
01-09-2013, 6:43 PM
What the "F" are you talking about??? I smell a troll and it smells like Palosi's ***

I'd probably stop while you're ahead, BTW proof reading is your friend.

gruntbull
01-09-2013, 6:49 PM
It appears as it only applies government health offices/ACA related entities... It is in there, if you download the entire document in PDF it is on pages 2037-2040. But I dont see how it is going to save us from these scoundrels.

Marthor
01-09-2013, 7:33 PM
This is relevant for the "mental health" angle of the current debate.

kaligaran
01-10-2013, 9:42 AM
Regardless, I just added a note in my phone of the senate amendment number so if I ever fill out a health care questionnaire at a doctor that asks a question about firearms I'm going to write down the info there!

Good stuff.

dustoff31
01-10-2013, 10:49 AM
Regardless, I just added a note in my phone of the senate amendment number so if I ever fill out a health care questionnaire at a doctor that asks a question about firearms I'm going to write down the info there!

Good stuff.

Bingo. Whether legal or not, they can't report what they don't know.

CBruce
01-10-2013, 10:58 AM
It seems that in their haste to cram socialized medicine down the throats of the American people, then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and Barack Obama overlooked Senate amendment 3276, Sec. 2716, part c.

According to reports, that amendment says the government cannot collect "any information relating to the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition."

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/09/Backfire-Obamacare-Forbids-Gun-and-Ammo-Registration

From the comments:
The key phrase, "...nor shall such data be collected on individuals." That means, the government cannot collect information about lawful ownership of firearms or ammunition.

Just when I think nothing can suprise me anymore...

Would this have any affect on state-level registration of firearms or ID tracking ammo purchases?

I honestly didn't used to have a problem with registration. But after seeing all these asshats have free and easy access to that information and publishing maps of gun owners names and addresses...I have a pretty big problem with making my family a specific target for criminals looking for guns and ammo.

dr16o49
01-10-2013, 12:06 PM
Look it up. There is no part c. Stops at b. sen amend 3276 is not available at the bill lookup pages. Although that amendment was amended with 3277.

I always fact check. Someone send me a link to the actual text in the bill as written I would appreciate it. Cause as far as I could check, not there.

dr16o49
01-10-2013, 12:07 PM
Oh, and also, ALL republicans voted against that amendment. I could get that much.

troysland
01-10-2013, 12:31 PM
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smogcity
01-16-2013, 7:56 AM
Asking is different than teaching. Doctors shouldn't ask if you have a gun,
belong to a particular religious group etc. They shouldn't collect data without
permission.

They should teach all their patients about health issues and safe
living. IE if they want to hand out a paper on safe gun storage or the
health hazards of tobacco use to everyone, fine.

Now in New York, if you have a anti gun doctor that has a "feeling" that you have guns and seem sad/angry/anything; you might get the swat treatment and lose your guns.

Coming soon to a state near you.

smogcity
01-16-2013, 8:00 AM
Now on Drudge:

W.H. readies 23 'executive actions'... Developing...
Press doctors to ask patients about guns in home...
'Health care providers' to offer gun safety tips...
'Counselors' in schools...

abishai
01-16-2013, 9:05 AM
List of Executive Actions. See #16:

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/16/list-executive-actions-obama-plans-to-take-as-part-anti-gun-violence-plan/

He's already ordering Doctors to disobey the law by deputizing them into his police state. I've already read anecdotal accounts that the American Academy of Pediatrics is asking their Doctors to do as much.

Is there any way Calguns/CGF or other groups could put together a list of Pro-2A Doctors in the state?

NoJoke
01-16-2013, 9:16 AM
Rush Limbaugh was saying there's something in the EO's that counter the Obamacare language.

Sakiri
01-16-2013, 10:50 AM
Just remember, you don't have to tell them *anything*.

twinfin
01-16-2013, 6:56 PM
Your doctor does not need to know if you have a gun in your home to talk about gun safety.

It makes me curious as to why some are so insistent that the doctor produce a written record indicating you are a gun owner and always under the pretext that it's just to talk about gun safety. Why do you have to own a gun for this conversation to take place. Can't it just be discussed wether you own a gun or not?

Riderguy
01-17-2013, 3:56 PM
The amendment:
Senate amendment 3276, Sec. 2716, part c. 2nd Amend. Related Legal & Political Discussion.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr3590/text

(search on phrase "limitation on data collection")

Prohibits the collection of gun data as a part of Obmacare. The relevant sections are:

(2) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION.--None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the collection of any information relating to--
``(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition;
``(B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or
``(C) the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition.
``(3) LIMITATION ON DATABASES OR DATA BANKS.--None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used to maintain records of individual ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition

AND

(5) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION REQUIREMENTS FOR INDIVIDUALS.--No individual shall be required to disclose any information under any data collection activity authorized under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act relating to--
``(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or
``(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition.''.

As specific as those restrictions are, and I am sure at the time Harry Reid thought he was forestalling any NRA objections, given Obama's speech and attempt to recruit MD's into his policing, it now seems it could be important after all!

Obama said clearly that he wanted MD's to be a part of the data collection and ask questions about gun ownership. When he now claims that there aren't any Obamacare regulations prohibiting the asking of these questions he is being disingenuous. I suppose it doesn't prohibit ASKING, just prohibits writing down the answer!

furyous68
01-17-2013, 4:14 PM
(5) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION REQUIREMENTS FOR INDIVIDUALS.--No individual shall be required to disclose any information under any data collection activity authorized under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act relating to--
``(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or
``(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition.''.


That part reads to me that we as individuals have no obligation to answer the question at all. They can ask all they want, but we can tell them to pound sand. This will surely affect the CDC's ability to do a thorough study of gun violence, right? I mean, don't they get most f their stats from doctors & the medical field? Seems even an amendment made by the Act to correct this "mistake" would be null & void according to this language.

woodnsteel
01-17-2013, 4:54 PM
This subject is pretty close to Real Important for me-I would like to discuss some glasses with an optometrist.For shooting...But how do I know this one or that one isnt saying to themself "very interesting" and making notes to file their report with the new Minister of Safety at the Dept of Take Your Guns?

O'Brien
02-25-2013, 10:04 AM
So does that mean if all this goes through, that the registering of long guns for 2014 will not happen, or will California just do whatever the hell they want (as we know pot is illegal federally but Cali allows it with a "medical" card)