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View Full Version : Interesting info on Microstamping


Prc329
08-28-2007, 2:34 PM
I found these vids on youtube and I am not sure if you guys have seen them. The technology is interesting but after viewing these videos I can definately see how this can cause more problems then they can solve.

Click here (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&search_query=microstamping&search_sort=video_date_uploaded&search_category=0&search=Search&v=&uploaded=)

The good stuff is in vids 4, 5 and 6.

bulgron
08-28-2007, 3:42 PM
Interesting videos.

I only watched 4, 5 and 6. Interesting that he didn't talk about people salting crime scenes with cartridges picked up from firing ranges. Also, how long before they figure out there's 10's of millions of semi auto hand guns out there without microstamping, and that crime labs just aren't going to have the financial wherewithal to go examining brass in what amounts to a wild goose chase.

He talks about wanting to catch straw purchasers. But are straw purchasers really such a problem that it's worth asking the entire firearm industry to re-tool just to catch them?

What this is, is a giant financial giveaway to the guys holding the microstamping patent. And that's all it is.

MrTuffPaws
08-28-2007, 3:42 PM
Yeah, here is the MS wiki article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_microstamping

Dubious at best.

Charliegone
08-28-2007, 3:58 PM
"Republican, gun owner, NRA member, ..yeah RIGHT!" Todd Lizotte..funny how he has a Brady campaign person there as well a hardcore lefty...:rolleyes: on the technical part, there is still a lot that can be done to completely circumvent this technology (brass catcher, revolver, replace the pin, throw a different casing at the crime scene, etc..)..and like I said, most of the guns used in crime are stolen..so this isn't going to help much. Straw purchasers will just NOT have their friends buy it for them, they'd probably buy a stolen one anyways if they really want one.

markymark
08-28-2007, 4:24 PM
What happens if firing pins, extractors, ejectors are mixed and matched? Which marking do they focus on?

nhanson
08-28-2007, 4:25 PM
Interesting videos.
What this is, is a giant financial giveaway to the guys holding the microstamping patent. And that's all it is.

It is call a "monopoly" and I'd bet the promoters of this are in for a piece of the pie!

AKman
08-28-2007, 4:42 PM
So you buy a gun with microstamping technology. Does the law then ban the modification of such weapons by individuals or the importation of all relevant non-microstamped parts into CA? I don't think so. The scary part seems to be:

The Attorney General may also approve a method of equal or greater
reliability and effectiveness in identifying the specific serial number
of a firearm from spent cartridge casings discharged by that firearm
than that which is set forth in this paragraph, to be thereafter
required as otherwise set forth by this paragraph where the Attorney
General certifies that this new method is also unencumbered by
any patent restrictions.

Is it my tinfoil hat, or could this mean requiring people to buy serialized ammo?

StukaJr
08-28-2007, 5:22 PM
Crass tie in to Virginia Tech tragedy with Microstamping - what would it help solve in a case of senseless violence by a psychopath that did not hide his identity or intent?

Said to see Virginia Tech another "9/11" slogan for senseless prohibitions and loss of Personal Freedoms...

"32 homocides a day" quote seems a little high - is the US homocide rate is as high as 11,500 on average?

Rivers
08-28-2007, 5:54 PM
I took the time to watch the videos and about midway through #5, I caught Todd Lizotte, co-inventor of the microstamping process here, in this quote:

"For myself (Todd Lizotte) as an engineer, we're trying to extract technology to generate profit."

So, if he's giving this away, where's the profit? Or maybe he isn't QUITE giving it away as he's suggesting...

M. Sage
08-28-2007, 6:26 PM
Heh, the UC Davis test was "flawed" because they didn't use a SEM. Umm.. do local forensics have access to SEM!? I kind of doubt it. With the kind of workload that just LAPD is going to have... Is that even reasonable?

StukaJr
08-28-2007, 6:55 PM
Hehe, as someone who did some "High Technology" presentations in his life - these guys (especially, co-creator) has left enough holes for "detractors" to drive a train through... It's not really "detractions", when it's more of a series of "observations" based on the demonstration itself(in which the demonstrators have complete control over their materials)...

Prc329
08-28-2007, 11:00 PM
I watched the videos again and that comment where the guy basically admits criminals don't buy weapons I find ammusing. This technology only has the purpose of linking a gun to a crime. if a criminal does not buy a gun new but steals it then what the hell is the point? Tracking straw purchases?

Please. I had a friend from the underbelly offer to get me something I really want, guess what, he didn't buy it. I told him to get rid of it unless he wants his third strike. He damn sure didn't walk in to turners and buy it, he is prohibited from owning.

Gun-control in cali is really working.

bulgron
08-29-2007, 12:49 AM
Iif a criminal does not buy a gun new but steals it then what the hell is the point? Tracking straw purchases?


Actually, that guy went out of his way to say that this technology is for tracking straw purchases. Which is interesting. Are straw purchases really so much of a problem that it's worth asking the entire firearm industry world wide to retool over it? Are there any statistics anywhere that show the majority of guns used in crimes enter the criminal world via straw purchases?

The really funny thing to me was when he talked about how criminals aren't smart enough to modify a firearm so as to erase the microstamping technology. He implied that gang members aren't smart enough to do it, and don't care anyway, so the technology won't be tampered with.

But then he said that this technology is intended to catch straw purchasers.

Look, I think a straw purchaser MIGHT be a little smarter than your average banger, especially if being smart is what's needed to keep him out of jail.

Nothing good can come of this technology. At best we can hope for this stuff to be neutral. But in reality this bill puts us on yet another slippery slope to full-on gun bans, and for no good reason EXCEPT to put us on that slope.

The Antis suck.

StukaJr
08-29-2007, 11:16 AM
I was just watching the video again and noticed that you can see the markings in the picture of the open breach of the test firearm - in the Video of a projector screen, optimized and downresed to play on YouTube... That would suggest, that the markings are pretty freaking noticeable - so you can see them with naked eye! That kinda defeats the purpose of stating that criminal won't know about these markings and won't know where to file - unless that criminal just happens to be legally blind!

Criminals have been filing off the serial numbers off handguns (I don't know if they still do, seeing that it's a big time felony now a days) - now, they are going to leave identifying marks (that are clearly seen) and not file the off with a cheapy dremel (when it's not a crime to remove those marks)? As if...

Oh, yeah - apparently, gangbangers never heard of dremels, either.

AKman
08-29-2007, 11:59 AM
Heh, the UC Davis test was "flawed" because they didn't use a SEM. Umm.. do local forensics have access to SEM!? I kind of doubt it. With the kind of workload that just LAPD is going to have... Is that even reasonable?

Do local forensics even know what an electron is?

paradox
08-29-2007, 4:08 PM
I was just watching the video again and noticed that you can see the markings in the picture of the open breach of the test firearm - in the Video of a projector screen, optimized and downresed to play on YouTube... That would suggest, that the markings are pretty freaking noticeable - so you can see them with naked eye! That kinda defeats the purpose of stating that criminal won't know about these markings and won't know where to file - unless that criminal just happens to be legally blind!



Ever hear of brail?