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SpaceMan
01-07-2013, 2:54 PM
I (SpaceMan) DID NOT WRITE THIS.

I believe Montezumaz, a fellow MarlinOwners(.)com member wrote it. It will be split up into 2 sections as its too long for one post.


"I feel a tremendous responsibility to write this article though I am a little apprehensive. Thinking about the possibility of rising up against our own government is a frightening thing for many of us. I am not Johnny Rambo and I will be the first to admit that I do not want to die. The reason I feel compelled to write this, however, is simply because I don’t think the average American is equipped with the facts. I feel that a lot of American citizens feel like they have no choice but to surrender their guns if the government comes for them. I blame traditional media sources for this mass brainwash and I carry the responsibility of all small independent bloggers to tell the truth. So my focus today is to lay out your constitutional rights as an American, and let you decide what to do with those rights.

About a month ago I let the “democracy” word slip in a discussion with a fellow blogger. I know better. Americans have been conditioned to use this term. It’s not an accurate term and it never has been a correct term to describe our form of government. The truth is that the United States of America is a constitutional republic. This is similar to a democracy because our representatives are selected by democratic elections, but ultimately our representatives are required to work within the framework of our constitution. In other words, even if 90% of Americans want something that goes against our founding principles, they have no right to call for a violation of constitutional rights.

If you are religious you might choose to think of it this way… Say that members of your congregation decide that mass fornication is a good thing. Do they have the right to change the teachings of your God? The truth is the truth. It doesn’t matter how many people try to stray from it. Did I just compare our founders to God? In a way I did, but please note that I am not trying to insult anyone. For the purpose of the American Government our constitution and founders who wrote it are much like God is to believers. It is the law. It is indisputable.

Our founders did not want a “democracy” for they feared a true democracy was just as dangerous as a monarchy. The founders were highly educated people who were experienced in defending themselves against tyranny. They understood that the constitution could protect the people by limiting the power of anyone to work outside of it much better than a pure system of popularity. A system of checks and balances was set up to help limit corruption of government and also the potential for an “immoral majority” developing within the American People. We have forgotten in this country that we are ultimately ruled by a constitution.

Why is a democracy potentially just as dangerous as a monarchy? Let’s look at something that Benjamin Franklin said because it answers that question more fully and succinctly than I can. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. -Benjamin Franklin

Even 230+ years ago our founders were perceptive enough to realize that democracy was a dangerous form of government. How so? Because the citizens of a country can become just as corrupt as any government. We have seen evidence of this throughout history. Ask Native Americans and African-Americans if this population can become corrupt.

I think in 2012 we are seeing evidence of what Franklin was trying to tell us. Just because a majority of people may support certain ideas it does not mean that those ideas are just. In simple terms, just because most Americans love our president and voted for him, it does not mean that he has the power to go against our constitutional rights.

Next I’d like to review the text of the second amendment. It is very clear. This is the law of this land. So when Senator Feinstein or President Obama talk about taking your guns, you need to think about something. Are they honoring their sworn oath to uphold the constitution? A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

This is a pretty clear statement. The fact is that it took 232 years for the Supreme Court to even rule on this amendment because it has never been successfully challenged. In 2008 a case of Columbia v. Heller the Supreme Court ruled that a handgun ban in Washington D.C. was unconstitutional. One also has to take this into consideration. The Supreme Court supports your right to own guns. If you want to research this decision further you can start here.

For those who try to debate the spirit of the 2nd amendment, they are truly no different from people who will try to take Biblical quotes out of context to try to support their immoral decisions. The founders were very clear on the intent of the 2nd amendment. Let me share a few quick quotes here:
The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -Thomas Jefferson

Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable ... the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference ... they deserve a place of honor with all that is good. -George Washington

The Constitution shall never be construed..., to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -Samuel Adams

I could find hundreds of quotes like these. This country was built on the right to bear arms. It was built on the rights of an individual to bear arms, regardless of what his government or neighbor happened to think. This is crystal clear. Ironically the people who voice their opinions against this right have their free speech protected by your guns. Without guns in this country, all other amendments become null and void, simply because “We the People” will lose our power of enforcement.

We need to keep this in mind as our “representatives” try to push gun bans. I don’t care if 99% of people are in support of gun bans (which is far from the case), it is a violation of our constitutional rights, plain and simple.

A constitutional republic protects the rights of the individual even when their ideas are very much in the minority. If I were the only person in America who believed in the 2nd amendment, I would still be within my rights to call upon it. You would all think I was insane and possibly celebrate if I was gunned down, but in the end I would be the only true American among us. Our framers were very clear on this. If my government comes to take my guns, they are violating one of my constitutional rights that is covered by the 2nd amendment.

It is not my right, at that point, but my responsibility to respond in the name of liberty. What I am telling you is something that many are trying to soft sell, and many others have tried to avoid putting into print, but I am going to say it. The time for speaking in code is over.



...................continued..............

SpaceMan
01-07-2013, 2:54 PM
If they come for our guns then it is our constitutional right to put them six feet under. You have the right to kill any representative of this government who tries to tread on your liberty. I am thinking
about self-defense and not talking about inciting a revolution. Re-read Jefferson’s quote. He talks about a “last resort.” I am not trying to start a Revolt, I am talking about self-defense. If the day for Revolution comes, when no peaceful options exist, we may have to talk about that as well. None of us wants to think about that, but please understand that a majority can not take away your rights as an American citizen. Only you can choose to give up your rights.

Congress could pass gun ban legislation by a 90%+ margin and it just would not matter. I think some people are very unclear on this. This is the reason we have a Supreme Court, and though I do not doubt that the Supreme Court can also become corrupt, in 2008 they got it right. They supported the constitution. It does not matter what the majority supports because America is not a democracy. A constitutional republic protects the rights of every single citizen, no matter what their “elected servants” say. A majority in America only matters when the constitution is not in play.

I just wrote what every believer in the constitution wants to say, and what every constitutional blogger needs to write. The truth of the matter is that this type of speech is viewed as dangerous and radical or subversive, and it could gain me a world of trouble that I do not want. It is also the truth. To make myself clear I will tell you again. If they come for your guns it is your right to use those guns against them and to kill them. You are protected by our constitution.

Most of the articles I am reading on the subject are trying to give you clues without just coming out and saying it. I understand that because certain things in this country will get you on a list that you don’t want to be on. I may well be on that list. This blog is small and growing so I may not be there yet, but I have dreams. I also have my own list of subversives and anyone who attempts to deny my constitutional rights is on that list.

I am not the “subversive” here, it is the political representatives who are threatening to take away my inalienable rights. If they come to take my guns and I leave a few of them wounded or dead, and I somehow survive, I have zero doubt that I will spend a long time in prison and may face an execution. But I would much rather be a political prisoner than a slave.

If I go down fighting then I was not fighting to harm these human beings. I was simply defending my liberty and yours. It is self-defense and it is what our country was built on. We won our freedom in self-defense. We would not be ruled by a tyrannical government in the 1770′s and we will not be ruled in 2012 by a tyrannical government. There is no difference.

This is a case of right and wrong. As of now the 2nd amendment stands. It has never been repealed. If Feinstein or Barack have a problem with the constitution then they should be removed from office. They are not defending the constitution which they have sworn an oath to protect. It is treasonous to say the least. They would likely say the same about me, but I have the constitution, the founders, and the supreme court on my side. They only have their inflated egos.

I am not writing this to incite people. I am writing this in hopes that somehow I can make a tiny difference. I have no idea how many of my neighbors have the will to defend their constitutional rights. 2%? 20%? I am afraid that 20% is a high number, unfortunately. When push comes to shove many people may give up and submit to being ruled. I believe that our government is banking on this.

What I do know is that this country was founded by people who had balls the size of Texas and Patriotic Americans take crap off of no one, especially our own government. For evidence of that, you might research the Revolutionary War. My question is how many Patriots are left?

I would hope that our officials come to realize that, regardless of our numbers, we still exist because they are calling Patriotic Americans to action. They are making us decide if we want to die free or submit to their rule. I can not tell you where you should stand on that. I do know that it may make the difference between living a life of freedom or slavery.

You must start thinking about this because I believe that the day is coming soon and I personally believe it has already been planned. Not all conspiracy theories are hogwash. They may throw down the gauntlet soon and my suggestion is that you prepare yourself to react.

I mean no disrespect to our elected officials but they need to understand that “We the People” will not be disarmed. If they proceed then it is they that are provoking us and we will act accordingly. We are within our rights to do so.

For those who are in support of taking the guns, you need to ask yourself a very important question, and I am not just talking about the politicians, because if you support them, you have chosen your side.

Are you willing to die to take my guns?"

- Dean Garrison

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/rkba/106372-if-they-come-your-guns.html

OneAvgWhiteGuy
01-07-2013, 3:00 PM
If it came right down to it and people had to choose between their guns or going down in a blaze of glory, I think most people are going to give up their guns.

skyscraper
01-07-2013, 3:02 PM
^ yup. And I think this thread goes in OT with the other 200 confiscation threads

stix213
01-07-2013, 3:04 PM
IBOT
IBFP

There will be no confiscation bill signed into law

dieselpower
01-07-2013, 3:05 PM
the last samurai....

SpaceMan
01-07-2013, 3:07 PM
This isn't just about the AWB... I didn't believe this to be off topic but please move it mods after you have read it and decided what's best.

xSoCALx
01-07-2013, 3:12 PM
:clap::clap::clap:

MikeinnLA
01-07-2013, 3:14 PM
Nobody is coming to your door to get your guns. Sigh. :facepalm:

Write Winger
01-07-2013, 3:15 PM
Dupe

DTOM CA!
01-07-2013, 3:19 PM
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”

― Edward R. Murrow

JoshuaS
01-07-2013, 3:21 PM
You may disagree with my reasoning here, but I believe it would be a sinful waste of life to pointlessly resist.

By this I mean, if you draw and fire what is likely to happen? You are dead, and you also hurt the cause. It screams to the general populace, see gun owners are dangerous. Much smarter to take legal action where appropriate. Also if you have any guns under the radar, keep those separate and just give them the ones they know about. When it comes down to it, a bunch of cops and just you, your life is not worth your guns.

And frankly, most people who write this stuff, when it comes down to it, will reason the same way. If not out of moral considerations, then out of love of their own life.

OlderThanDirt
01-07-2013, 3:23 PM
Nobody is coming to your door to get your guns. Sigh. :facepalm:

Not when we have the IRS to cut off your balls financially.

moleculo
01-07-2013, 3:25 PM
Most of those "quotes" are bogus, btw.

SpaceMan
01-07-2013, 3:31 PM
Most of those "quotes" are bogus, btw.

Not to say that I don't believe you, or to even say I believe the quotes for that matter, but can you provide some sample of credible proof that would show they are bogus? I'm sure a few people would want to know as well.

stix213
01-07-2013, 3:35 PM
You may disagree with my reasoning here, but I believe it would be a sinful waste of life to pointlessly resist.

By this I mean, if you draw and fire what is likely to happen? You are dead, and you also hurt the cause. It screams to the general populace, see gun owners are dangerous. Much smarter to take legal action where appropriate. Also if you have any guns under the radar, keep those separate and just give them the ones they know about. When it comes down to it, a bunch of cops and just you, your life is not worth your guns.

And frankly, most people who write this stuff, when it comes down to it, will reason the same way. If not out of moral considerations, then out of love of their own life.

This ^^^

If they are really coming for your guns, they are going to be a team with guns drawn. You're going to die if you resist, and your dog will even if you don't resist.

That doesn't mean you just roll over and let the unconstitutional run wild, but there is smart resistance and dumb resistance.

winnre
01-07-2013, 3:37 PM
Most of those "quotes" are bogus, btw.


http://www.likecaptions.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Abraham-Lincoln-Internet-Quote.png

xSoCALx
01-07-2013, 3:47 PM
You may disagree with my reasoning here, but I believe it would be a sinful waste of life to pointlessly resist.

By this I mean, if you draw and fire what is likely to happen? You are dead, and you also hurt the cause. It screams to the general populace, see gun owners are dangerous. Much smarter to take legal action where appropriate. Also if you have any guns under the radar, keep those separate and just give them the ones they know about. When it comes down to it, a bunch of cops and just you, your life is not worth your guns.

And frankly, most people who write this stuff, when it comes down to it, will reason the same way. If not out of moral considerations, then out of love of their own life.


I'm certain there are many that agree with your views JoshuaS.

Unless people learn to turn off their TV's they will continue to feel the way you do. Most all freedom loving American's don't want any sort of confrontation, let alone a violent one. I have no doubt the 3% that stood up against the red coats & began the revolutionary war 230+ years ago did not want to have to resort to violence.

At what point do you draw the line? How much of your freedom, as an American citizen are you willing to loose?

I know we live in different times. I know the quote I will end this with may be considered to be "out of date"...... I also know this man Mr Franklin, knew damn well what the hell was speaking about.....


“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

― Benjamin Franklin

X-NewYawker
01-07-2013, 3:50 PM
Nobody is coming to your door to get your guns. Sigh. :facepalm:

Really?
And SKS owners that registered theirs after the CA AWB and then the state changed their mind? No one came and got those guns?

Grow the hell up. We are in a WAR.

X-NewYawker
01-07-2013, 3:51 PM
This ^^^

If they are really coming for your guns, they are going to be a team with guns drawn. You're going to die if you resist, and your dog will even if you don't resist.

That doesn't mean you just roll over and let the unconstitutional run wild, but there is smart resistance and dumb resistance.

We're talking about when the legal methods have FAILED. When O's new SCOTUS throws out the 2A...

xSoCALx
01-07-2013, 3:52 PM
Really?
And SKS owners that registered theirs after the CA AWB and then the state changed their mind? No one came and got those guns?

Grow the hell up. We are in a WAR.


:iagree:

myk
01-07-2013, 3:53 PM
Really?
And SKS owners that registered theirs after the CA AWB and then the state changed their mind? No one came and got those guns?

Grow the hell up. We are in a WAR.

What happened with that situation, anyway? Did the DOJ send out letters saying turn them in "or else?"

Extra411
01-07-2013, 3:54 PM
Not to say that I don't believe you, or to even say I believe the quotes for that matter, but can you provide some sample of credible proof that would show they are bogus? I'm sure a few people would want to know as well.

http://saf.org/pub/rkba/general/BogusFounderQuotes.htm

Also, the constitution of America can be changed/amended. Thus if truly 99% of the people wanted to repeal something in the constitution, it can be done legally. For example, the 18th Amendment of the constitution banned alcohol, then the passage of the 21st amendment repealed the 18th amendment.

stix213
01-07-2013, 3:55 PM
We're talking about when the legal methods have FAILED. When O's new SCOTUS throws out the 2A...

You fail at reading between the lines. Trying to fight off an entry team is resisting on their terms, and suicide. If you are going to, resist on your own terms at a time & place of your choosing, and don't just throw your life away out of principal when they show up.

moleculo
01-07-2013, 3:58 PM
Not to say that I don't believe you, or to even say I believe the quotes for that matter, but can you provide some sample of credible proof that would show they are bogus? I'm sure a few people would want to know as well.

Just google them. Most of them show up on sites that look into this type of thing. It really isn't difficult to spot a phony, anyway; If you've ever read any published material from the time period in question, you'll see that our "version" of the English language is quite a bit different than theirs.

jonnyt16
01-07-2013, 4:01 PM
You may disagree with my reasoning here, but I believe it would be a sinful waste of life to pointlessly resist.

By this I mean, if you draw and fire what is likely to happen? You are dead, and you also hurt the cause. It screams to the general populace, see gun owners are dangerous. Much smarter to take legal action where appropriate. Also if you have any guns under the radar, keep those separate and just give them the ones they know about. When it comes down to it, a bunch of cops and just you, your life is not worth your guns.

And frankly, most people who write this stuff, when it comes down to it, will reason the same way. If not out of moral considerations, then out of love of their own life.
Just a question for you and to everyone else who thinks its a waste of life to "pointlessly resist". At what point do you resist? After your guns are taken away?? I'm not knocking you or anyone for where they stand, but, at least be honest and admit that you'd rather live on your knees than die on your feet.

Green Ice Dragon
01-07-2013, 4:10 PM
I would like to think it would start something along in these steps:

1) Initial give little to no resistance. Arguing with the confiscators, at best.
2) Some start to resist with deadly consequences. The people begin to get pissed.
3) Those who have not had their guns taken will start to organize to fight back.
4) It becomes one big bloody mess from both sides.

But it's doubtful it will ever get to this because, unfortunately, THERE ARE WAY TOO MANY GUNS. It would be unrealistic and an absolute mess. The best they can do is another AWB which will prevent sales of certain firearms for about 10 years and then it'll expire and we'll be back where we are today... possibly slightly better.

warbird
01-07-2013, 4:12 PM
the point i think all of you might be missing is that you will not be fighting the men and women who voted to take your guns but only the minions who were told to go get them. Should you protect yourself and your legally owned property? Yes but every person determined to fight should converge on your legislative capitols to deal with the people who passed the laws. to win a fight you have to take down those who created the laws and overruled the majority to support the minority and special interests.

Dr Rockso
01-07-2013, 4:43 PM
Ugh it's like someone put every bogus founder quote in one rambling blog post that completely ignores the anti's strategy of incremantalism in favor of some completely unrealistic mass confiscation scenario. Entirely uninformative.

I really wish that every gun owner with a blog or a sig-line would read this
http://saf.org/pub/rkba/general/BogusFounderQuotes.htm

obiwan
01-07-2013, 4:45 PM
Fights not with you law dawg

tcd511
01-07-2013, 4:46 PM
Nobody is coming to your door to get your guns. Sigh. :facepalm:

:twoweeks: Better Hide your Sh*T!!!

Bobio
01-07-2013, 4:52 PM
If the US Government with the support of the Supreme Court decides to confiscate your firearms it is your responsibility as a US Citizen to give them up. If you don't like it renounce your citizenship and move to a country more to your liking. Period.

tcrpe
01-07-2013, 4:52 PM
What happened with that situation, anyway? Did the DOJ send out letters saying turn them in "or else?"

California Demands All SKS
Rifles Be Turned In
Y2KNEWSWIRE.com
6-24-99


Y2KNEWSWIRE has confirmed with the California State Attorney General office: certain firearms are now under a confiscation order. This, also posted on a state-run web site. California residents must turn in their SKS rifles by 1/1/2000 -- precisely the Y2K rollover date -- or face criminal prosecution. Recently-enacted legislation mandates this confiscation, calling it a "buyback" program and offering to reimburse gun owners $230 per "relinquished" rifle.



YMMV, never owned one. I suppose the SKS owners just complied.

Or, click, here. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-584798.html)

Dragunov
01-07-2013, 4:55 PM
Just a question for you and to everyone else who thinks its a waste of life to "pointlessly resist". At what point do you resist? After your guns are taken away?? I'm not knocking you or anyone for where they stand, but, at least be honest and admit that you'd rather live on your knees than die on your feet.Bravo! I agree 100%. Molon Labe!

GunnerB
01-07-2013, 5:20 PM
Who lights the wick?

kcbrown
01-07-2013, 5:23 PM
You fail at reading between the lines. Trying to fight off an entry team is resisting on their terms, and suicide. If you are going to, resist on your own terms at a time & place of your choosing, and don't just throw your life away out of principal when they show up.

In the situation in question, there is no time and place of your choosing. The only means of resisting are at a time and place of their choosing.

Which is to say, you can either resist on their terms when they come for your guns, or you can resist on their terms when you attempt to sue the government. Since the situation we're talking about is when Supreme Court has turned the 2nd Amendment into a dead letter in the same way Slaughterhouse neutered the 14th Amendment's PorI clause, suing the government amounts to resisting on their terms.

What, then, is left? Protesting in the streets? We've seen how well that works these days (ever since the Vietnam War protests, not a single protest in the streets has had the slightest effect on government action that I know of).


No, in the scenario in question, there are no options. If you're going to resist in any truly meaningful way, it'll have to be before they come for your guns.

OneAvgWhiteGuy
01-07-2013, 5:24 PM
Just a question for you and to everyone else who thinks its a waste of life to "pointlessly resist". At what point do you resist? After your guns are taken away?? I'm not knocking you or anyone for where they stand, but, at least be honest and admit that you'd rather live on your knees than die on your feet.

You resist now, before it ever gets to a point where you have to make a choice between your gun or your life.

Proclaiming a willingness to go down as a martyr is easy when sitting comfortably behind a keyboard, but if it actually became a real life or death decision I still maintain most hardliners would change their tune real quick. Even quicker if family gets involved.

SpaceMan
01-07-2013, 5:30 PM
One word to answer a lot of these posts.

REVOLUTION!

ewarmour
01-07-2013, 5:31 PM
Those who take it upon themselves to write the laws by which the rest of us must live should fear the wrath of the people they seek to govern. For the nation to be truly free, those who seek to exceed the limits on their power imposed by the Constitution must be made to live in mortal terror of the consequences.

"It doesn't matter what they pass, enough of us will defy it to make the choice mandatory for the rest of you. Fight or disarm."

choprzrul
01-07-2013, 5:34 PM
This:
http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/646651904/12_inch_pvc_pipe.jpg

PLUS this:
http://img0078.popscreencdn.com/102624074_amazoncom-lasco-sch-40-12-inch-pvc-pipe-caps---10-pack-.jpg


Placed in a spot like this:
http://blueridgebluecollargirl.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/woods-alight-blog.jpg?w=450

with 80% of your stash means that you will be able to resist on YOUR terms after they break down your door.

.

reznunt
01-07-2013, 5:34 PM
:twoweeks: Better Hide your Sh*T!!!

Now this thread isn't completely worthless. At least I lol'd

Moonshine
01-07-2013, 5:39 PM
If you feel you do have a responsibility to fight it would be prudent to not publically discuss it on a forum the DOJ is known to read... Jus sayin!

epilepticninja
01-07-2013, 5:51 PM
If the US Government with the support of the Supreme Court decides to confiscate your firearms it is your responsibility as a US Citizen to give them up. If you don't like it renounce your citizenship and move to a country more to your liking. Period.

Uh, no...on all counts.

Hippies_Have_Guns_Too
01-07-2013, 6:24 PM
As the first video points-out. History is one example as what to do.

Also I believe if there ever was a confrontation. I think the first confrontation it would be important to 1) be in a non aggressive but defensive formation and armed like at Lexington green. 2) not be the aggressors. 3) not dressed up in battle fatigues. In this first case it would be best to be dressed up as respectable looking as possible. I think this is important. And also have the U.S. flag and the Don't Tread On Me flag. 4) have as much video surveillance as possible. Then add more video surveillance. Both live streaming and recording.

Of course none of us would ever want to see anything like this. I know I certainly would never want to see anything like this. And like all you folks here and throughout our country, I know I certainly would never want to see anyone get harmed. I joined the Army as an infantryman back in the mid 80's when I was 17yrs old because I wanted my presence to help make sure no one would be foolish enough to harm my country or my countrymen. But if evil men desired to harm my country or my countrymen, I was ready to defend it and us. I'm not saying its going to come to this, but the question we have to all ask ourselves is: If its our turn will we band together and defend our country, our constitution, and our inalienable rights like so many of our forefathers before us? Or will we cower and fall into authoritarianism or worse? That's the question that we might be confronted with at some point in the future. And if we are confronted with it. What will our answer be?

One thing is for certain. An unarmed populace is ripe for the picking.



IqgY8EQTJfs


HcDvizGJ2jg

Bobio
01-07-2013, 6:25 PM
Guys IT IS NOT going to happen. Too many gun owners, too strong a lobby, too many guns. But this talk influences a dangerous albeit small percentage of gun owners.

Rimjim
01-07-2013, 6:26 PM
I agree with this verifiable quote:

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes....Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in Chapter 40 of "On Crimes and Punishment", 1764. Chapter. Whole Book. http://saf.org/Quotes.html

GunnerB
01-07-2013, 6:48 PM
If the US Government with the support of the Supreme Court decides to confiscate your firearms it is your responsibility as a US Citizen to give them up. If you don't like it renounce your citizenship and move to a country more to your liking. Period.

So if they passed a law that anyone on an internet forum with a user name of Bobio is a enemy of the state, your OK with that because its the law. noted.

tcrpe
01-07-2013, 6:52 PM
So if they passed a law that anyone on an internet forum with a user name of Bobio is a enemy of the state, your OK with that because its the law. noted.

Works for me . . . . .

Findout
01-07-2013, 7:07 PM
...When it comes down to it, a bunch of cops and just you, your life is not worth your guns.

My life may not be worth the mere firearms, but should it ever really come down to it, my life is worth the freedom. The only reason you and I have the freedom we have is because someone else put their life on the line, knowing that it's not just about the guns.

Bobio
01-07-2013, 7:15 PM
So if they passed a law that anyone on an internet forum with a user name of Bobio is a enemy of the state, your OK with that because its the law. noted.

I guess I would have to deal with our legal system and resolve that issue.

JoshuaS
01-07-2013, 7:16 PM
I'm certain there are many that agree with your views JoshuaS.

Unless people learn to turn off their TV's they will continue to feel the way you do. Most all freedom loving American's don't want any sort of confrontation, let alone a violent one. I have no doubt the 3% that stood up against the red coats & began the revolutionary war 230+ years ago did not want to have to resort to violence.

At what point do you draw the line? How much of your freedom, as an American citizen are you willing to loose?

I know we live in different times. I know the quote I will end this with may be considered to be "out of date"...... I also know this man Mr Franklin, knew damn well what the hell was speaking about.....


“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

― Benjamin Franklin

There is a world of difference between an armed resistance, even if a small minority, and one man being shot down for resisting a "lawful" search and seizure.

If it ever came down to the question of actual rebellion against the government, if the government so vitiated its duty to the common good (the true common good, not the fancy of some liberals) that it lost legitimacy, then one must act still with prudence and reason in resistance. I am not saying confiscation of say semi-autos would by itself justify such rebellion. We can leave aside what would. But just say that if it came to that, you would be better off stashing weapons harder to trace than resisting them individually over a single gun.

The opening shots at Concord and Lexington weren't by people being roused to the front door by the red coats ("cops") and making solo stands. It was by a group of militia. If they had simply said let them come, and stayed individually in their homes, what do you think would have happened?

Even unjust laws, provided they do not require you to do what is morally wrong, or forbid what is morally necessary, should at times be followed, at least in public, according to prudence. Don't be your own worst enemy and resist stupidly and uselessly. Resistance must be cunning and directed to the end of justice, of righting the wrong.

Findout
01-07-2013, 7:18 PM
This ^^^

If they are really coming for your guns, they are going to be a team with guns drawn. You're going to die if you resist, and your dog will even if you don't resist.

That doesn't mean you just roll over and let the unconstitutional run wild, but there is smart resistance and dumb resistance.

Dumb resistance is willingly giving up your primary means to defend yourself from tyranny. Smart resistance is fighting for your rights before they're taken away.

LBDamned
01-07-2013, 7:19 PM
-NZwcxTTwKo

Findout
01-07-2013, 7:29 PM
You fail at reading between the lines. Trying to fight off an entry team is resisting on their terms, and suicide. If you are going to, resist on your own terms at a time & place of your choosing, and don't just throw your life away out of principal when they show up.

That's not a realistic option. Whoever comes to your door to collect your firearms isn't going to agree to meet you at the local reinforced bunker or shooting range. They're going to come to your home and surprise you. Yes, there will be more of them and they will be more heavily armed, but the elements of surprise and cover are formidable weapons for anyone willing and able to take advantage of them. Any well-prepared individual is still in a position where they could take out several armed "agents" before being taken out themselves. Repeat this a couple hundred thousand times over in this country and all the sudden the manpower required to take the guns has shriveled. On top of that, the medical and other support resources will be tied up as well.

Out of the 80 million or so firearm owners in this country, I'd absolutely believe that at least a few hundred thousand would be willing to fight to the death, and that's probably enough to stop the process. It would also very likely launch us into civil war.

I don't believe for a second that anyone dying to defend their firearms has lost their life in vain.

dls
01-07-2013, 7:35 PM
Since they'll be stoping at every fourth or fifth house to collect guns, we'll all see them coming from a long ways off.
When they finally get to my home, my response would be "what guns?"

Findout
01-07-2013, 7:40 PM
the point i think all of you might be missing is that you will not be fighting the men and women who voted to take your guns but only the minions who were told to go get them. Should you protect yourself and your legally owned property? Yes but every person determined to fight should converge on your legislative capitols to deal with the people who passed the laws. to win a fight you have to take down those who created the laws and overruled the majority to support the minority and special interests.

I am not alone when I say that those minions who choose to serve against the constitution do not deserve the liberty that I am fighting for. If the situation allowed me the opportunity to warn someone attempting to take my firearms, I would. Yes, I know it's quite unlikely, but it's part of a thought experiment. I would tell them, more or less, "I do not wish to fight or harm you, but I will not turn over my weapons. If you leave me be, I can promise the same in return, but if you continue this, I will have no choice but to resist with any means I have at my disposal."

If enough people had this kind of resolve, we'd never have to worry about it. Unfortunately, as has been said, most will simply turn in their weapons without a fight, which I believe is the worst possible thing you can do.

Dragunov
01-07-2013, 7:41 PM
So if they passed a law that anyone on an internet forum with a user name of Bobio is a enemy of the state, your OK with that because its the law. noted.That would be ok, because I lost my Bobio in a tragic boating accident on Pyramid lake while in Nevada.

Findout
01-07-2013, 7:45 PM
If the US Government with the support of the Supreme Court decides to confiscate your firearms it is your responsibility as a US Citizen to give them up. If you don't like it renounce your citizenship and move to a country more to your liking. Period.

This kind of mindless thinking is very, very dangerous. The Man absolutely adores people like you.

Just as this country's constitution protects your right to speak such absurdity, it also protects my right to tell you just how foolish you really are.

Findout
01-07-2013, 7:52 PM
I guess I would have to deal with our legal system and resolve that issue.

Send us all a postcard from solitary once a month and let us know how that works for you ;)

LoneYote
01-07-2013, 7:58 PM
I guess I would have to deal with our legal system and resolve that issue.

An enemy of the state has no rights and thus no legal recourse. You would be arrested by swarming federal agents then shipped in a head bag to the middle of no where to be tortured for information....

SonoftheRepublic
01-07-2013, 8:04 PM
Those of you who do not have a relationship with God won't understand. You will most likely succumb to the comforts and material things of this world and refuse to fight. Those who know that this is a spiritual fight, and who have already gotten themselves right with God, will not hesitate, when the right moment comes, to do the right thing and take out the evil bastards who would try to destroy our freedom and everything that we hold dear. Say what you will. That's the realilty as I see it, (and as many of the founders did as well).

The semi-automatic rifle and pistol are the heart and soul of our Second Amendment, and the protectors of our freedom. If we were to loose them, our Second Amendment will be mortally wounded, and they know it. If there was ever a line in the sand, it is now and this is it!

Those who have studied history know what comes next after the guns are taken!

". . .What would you do without freedom? Will you fight?……… Ay, fight and you may die, run and you’ll live. At least a while.
And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they’ll never take our freedom!”

sparrow
01-07-2013, 8:16 PM
If the US Government with the support of the Supreme Court decides to confiscate your firearms it is your responsibility as a US Citizen to give them up. If you don't like it renounce your citizenship and move to a country more to your liking. Period.



Not to be disrespectful to the victims of the holocaust, but its people with this kind of mentality that made it to their last shower.

Lc17smp
01-07-2013, 8:25 PM
I agree with SotR. Well put.

Lc17smp
01-07-2013, 8:41 PM
If MY WIFE with the support of the FEMINIST decides to confiscate MY BALLS it is MY responsibility as a HUSBAND to give them up. If I don't like it I'LL renounce MY LEADERSHIP ROLL and move INTO THE GARAGE and LIKE IT. Period.


This is how I read Bobio's post.

stix213
01-07-2013, 8:44 PM
Those of you who do not have a relationship with God won't understand. You will most likely succumb to the comforts and material things of this world and refuse to fight. Those who know that this is a spiritual fight, and who have already gotten themselves right with God, will not hesitate, when the right moment comes, to do the right thing and take out the evil bastards who are trying to destroy our freedom and everything that we hold dear. Say what you will. That's the realilty as I see it, (and as many of the founders did as well).

The semi-automatic rifle and pistol are the heart and soul of our Second Amendment, and the protectors of our freedom. If we were to loose them, our Second Amendment will be mortally wounded, and they know it. If there was ever a line in the sand, it is now and this is it!

Those who have studied history know what comes next after the guns are taken!

". . .What would you do without freedom? Will you fight?……… Ay, fight and you may die, run and you’ll live. At least a while.
And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they’ll never take our freedom!”

A deep respect of the US Constitution and the 2A is not restricted to those who are religious. That is simply religious bigotry.

DCVR
01-07-2013, 8:46 PM
Even though this would be considered very far fetched by many, think about it for a second. If a government that is willing to strip away constitutional rights as blatantly as mass disarmament, what makes you think you have a sliver of a chance in a legal system that has become corrupted beyond all faith?

IMO a full blown gun-grab (taking away ownership of ALL firearms) is the ultimate SHTF apocalypse scenario in which there is absolutely no alternative.

Even though it sounds extreme (tin-foil-hat worthy), I'd much rather stand my ground under a "Death Before Disarmament" motto than gamble my rights and freedom to the mercy of a likely corrupted legal system.

MindBeyondAverage
01-07-2013, 8:48 PM
After reading Bobio's cowardice posts, I nearly couldn't bare to read further, before replying with a firm piece of my mind. I am glad I read along though. You guys handled that foolishness a lot better than I could. I might've even gotten myself banned. In times like these, when a coward is willing to live on his knees, I can't help but take the coward's weakness personally. THAT JUST HAPPENED TO RHYME HAHAHAHA.

USMCM16A2
01-07-2013, 8:53 PM
Folks,



Wait until the battle lines are drawn, the battle must be within the confines of the legal system. IF THEY COME............................A2

Hippies_Have_Guns_Too
01-07-2013, 9:09 PM
This
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|
v

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvsjd5EL6S1qm5ws0o1_500.jpg

JoshuaS
01-07-2013, 9:16 PM
One thing to bear in mind too; the OP phrased it as a question of obligation. Is it your responsibility to fight? Assuming he means armed resistance, the answer must be at least "depends". Pick your battles, look to the end.

Even when one has a right to do something, doesn't mean they have a responsibility to do it. I have a right to defend my life. I have a duty to defend the life of those who depend on me. I may even have a duty to defend my life if others depend on me (as say children). But say I am just a single man, no attachments. A monk, a hermit. A beatnik even. What then? Well different circumstance, by offering no forceful resistance, I am not committing suicide, I am showing mercy. And I can do so since I am free of obligation to others. But if I am married, have children, etc, I probably have a duty to fight.

I think the question of whether you, personally, should fight is just as varied. Some people are better for moral support and winning hearts and minds, than fighting anyways.

stix213
01-07-2013, 9:29 PM
That's not a realistic option. Whoever comes to your door to collect your firearms isn't going to agree to meet you at the local reinforced bunker or shooting range. They're going to come to your home and surprise you. Yes, there will be more of them and they will be more heavily armed, but the elements of surprise and cover are formidable weapons for anyone willing and able to take advantage of them. Any well-prepared individual is still in a position where they could take out several armed "agents" before being taken out themselves. Repeat this a couple hundred thousand times over in this country and all the sudden the manpower required to take the guns has shriveled. On top of that, the medical and other support resources will be tied up as well.

Out of the 80 million or so firearm owners in this country, I'd absolutely believe that at least a few hundred thousand would be willing to fight to the death, and that's probably enough to stop the process. It would also very likely launch us into civil war.

I don't believe for a second that anyone dying to defend their firearms has lost their life in vain.

Another failure to read between the lines..... :facepalm: Here let me spell it out for those who are a bit slow:

* If they come to your door, do exactly what they say. You lost all your semi-auto's in that boating accident last week anyways, so they aren't going to do anything.

* If you choose to take up armed resistence it will be against targets of your choosing (soft, high value, high profile), at a time of your choosing (as in any time there isn't an armed team at your front door ready to go).

Dumb resistance is willingly giving up your primary means to defend yourself from tyranny. Smart resistance is fighting for your rights before they're taken away.

Dumb resistance is dying for no reason or gain against a superior force, which is exactly what would happen if you shoot at the SWAT style team that would be at your door there to collect your firearms. No one will know of your "heroics" anyways, since the media will portray you as a crazy nut hording guns and the poster child for why these guns should be banned, that is assuming you get a mention at all.

Smart resistance is not engaging a superior force, and instead attacking your enemy where they are weak.

2Fowl
01-07-2013, 10:01 PM
My life may not be worth the mere firearms, but should it ever really come down to it, my life is worth the freedom. The only reason you and I have the freedom we have is because someone else put their life on the line, knowing that it's not just about the guns.

Spot on!....:iagree:

2Fowl

pardou
01-07-2013, 10:18 PM
Possible Scenarios:

1: nobody is coming to take your guns

2: lets say they do come to take them: SHTF soo bad by then you'd better have alot of ammo!

3: If Government comes to take guns: "I sold them as parts years ago" or "I sold my AR to..." or play dumb, that usually works :)

NoHeavyHitter
01-07-2013, 10:25 PM
Nobody is coming to your door to get your guns. Sigh. :facepalm:

That's right! :clap: obama's our friend - he's not going to take anyone's guns, sheesh already...:rolleyes:

If Government comes to take guns: "I sold them as parts years ago" or "I sold my AR to..." or play dumb, that usually works

At least until you're into your first 90 seconds of waterboarding..:)

SpaceMan
01-07-2013, 11:10 PM
What makes anyone think a simple lie to an agent at your door collecting firearms is going to make this person just say, "Oh? You sold/lost ALL of your firarms? Ok we obviously have the wrong house here honest citizen. Have a joy joy day good sir". I don't think so.. Get real.. there will be a swift boot to the chest, followed by a violent slam into the wall or door and your arms twisted in a knot. Your house would be flipped upside down. They would either find your stash or take you in for god knows what kind of interrogation. Well that's how I see it happening. It's not like their looking for a pack of bubble gum.

MattyB
01-07-2013, 11:20 PM
Another failure to read between the lines..... :facepalm: Here let me spell it out for those who are a bit slow:

* If you choose to take up armed resistance it will be against targets of your choosing (soft, high value, high profile), at a time of your choosing

Smart resistance is not engaging a superior force, and instead attacking your enemy where they are weak.

Edited and bolded for clarity.

You will never win a battle when you are surprised and you'll only survive if you're lucky. Lucky to survive, unlucky to be a prisoner.

Some of the Gung Ho types here need to read The Art of War. It is VERY easy to read and is like the Proverbs of tactical combat.

The Art of War with margin notes, Read it, Live it, Love it (http://suntzusaid.com/)

Tac driver
01-07-2013, 11:38 PM
Just think of the crime increase that will occur if criminals know that everyone is fair game. Kind of crazy to think about!!!

X-NewYawker
01-07-2013, 11:41 PM
I would like to think it would start something along in these steps:

1) Initial give little to no resistance. Arguing with the confiscators, at best.
2) Some start to resist with deadly consequences. The people begin to get pissed.
3) Those who have not had their guns taken will start to organize to fight back.
4) It becomes one big bloody mess from both sides.

But it's doubtful it will ever get to this because, unfortunately, THERE ARE WAY TOO MANY GUNS. It would be unrealistic and an absolute mess. The best they can do is another AWB which will prevent sales of certain firearms for about 10 years and then it'll expire and we'll be back where we are today... possibly slightly better.

You know why that's not true? Because that's ANOTHER generation that will grow up not knowing they have a right to own these things. The left is playing a long game. They are not going to confiscate our guns tomorrow -- they are going to make it harder and harder to get guns -- and ammo -- and all the while continuing in the media to say that guns are bad -- and kids that never shot a real gun (like my daughter's 20 year old friends) will just believe the hype, believe guns are bad -- and within ANOTHER ten years the old fart gun owners will be too old to fight and they will have won.

What have we lost in Ca? 50 calls. CertainSemi-auto rifles. In Los Angeles small handguns. (and they will be coming for Saturday night specials and "cheap handguns" this time too.) a limit on available handgun models… And with every one of these "types of weapon" no logical reason. "we're not coming after your hunting gun."
Each ban -- another gun lost.

Damn it -- I don't hunt -- I protect my family!

X-NewYawker
01-07-2013, 11:43 PM
What makes anyone think a simple lie to an agent at your door collecting firearms is going to make this person just say, "Oh? You sold/lost ALL of your firarms? Ok we obviously have the wrong house here honest citizen. Have a joy joy day good sir". I don't think so.. Get real.. there will be a swift boot to the chest, followed by a violent slam into the wall or door and your arms twisted in a knot. Your house would be flipped upside down. They would either find your stash or take you in for god knows what kind of interrogation. Well that's how I see it happening. It's not like their looking for a pack of bubble gum.

See: when they came for that Cuban kid Elian Gonzales.

stix213
01-07-2013, 11:50 PM
What makes anyone think a simple lie to an agent at your door collecting firearms is going to make this person just say, "Oh? You sold/lost ALL of your firarms? Ok we obviously have the wrong house here honest citizen. Have a joy joy day good sir". I don't think so.. Get real.. there will be a swift boot to the chest, followed by a violent slam into the wall or door and your arms twisted in a knot. Your house would be flipped upside down. They would either find your stash or take you in for god knows what kind of interrogation. Well that's how I see it happening. It's not like their looking for a pack of bubble gum.

They are going to do that to all of the 20,000,000 gun owners that had boating accidents? The guns they will be after aren't registered, so aren't easy to track, so they won't have a complete list of what you have.

Don't have them in your house to be found.

MattyB
01-07-2013, 11:58 PM
What makes anyone think a simple lie to an agent at your door collecting firearms is going to make this person just say, "Oh? You sold/lost ALL of your firarms? Ok we obviously have the wrong house here honest citizen. Have a joy joy day good sir". I don't think so.. Get real.. there will be a swift boot to the chest, followed by a violent slam into the wall or door and your arms twisted in a knot. Your house would be flipped upside down. They would either find your stash or take you in for god knows what kind of interrogation. Well that's how I see it happening. It's not like their looking for a pack of bubble gum.

Let me make it UBER clear for you.

If your home is raided at 3am by a group of pre-armed and pre-planned professionals, You dont have a snowballs chance of walking away the victor.

Some of the more subtle are trying to make it clear that you wont win playing a defensive game when the SHTF.

You pick your time.

You choose the place

You fight when YOU are Ready, YOU are Armed and YOU have a plan.

The Colonists didnt fight their battles in front of their house.

A smart soldier is a lethal soldier and A FREE AND LIVING soldier.

Icy
01-08-2013, 12:20 AM
Did somebody make the LE and politician interactive map, downloadable and printable by geographical area, with martial status and number of children yet?

Until that is done, I won't take any of you "confiscation defenders" serious.

OneAvgWhiteGuy
01-08-2013, 1:51 AM
My guess is maybe 1-2% of the general population has the knowledge and skills to survive a true SHTF situation. Most people can't run 50 yards without hyperventilating, yet they're gonna arm up and go on some super tactical defensive mission against trained individuals who outgun them? Yeah, right.

stix213
01-08-2013, 1:53 AM
My guess is maybe 1-2% of the general population has the knowledge and skills to survive a true SHTF situation. Most people can't run 50 yards without hyperventilating, yet they're gonna arm up and go on some super tactical defensive mission against trained individuals who outgun them? Yeah, right.

They probably said that about the Syrians.

Also 2% of the US population is 6 1/4 million people, which is over 4x the size of the entire active US military, all branches, including non-combat personel worldwide.

OneAvgWhiteGuy
01-08-2013, 2:02 AM
What I'm saying is the vast majority of keyboard warriors who have fantasies of going out like some movie hero are going to fall in the 99%.

stix213
01-08-2013, 2:12 AM
What I'm saying is the vast majority of keyboard warriors who have fantasies of going out like some movie hero are going to fall in the 99%.

I'm sure 99% of them fall into the 99% :cool2:

socalbud
01-08-2013, 4:42 AM
What about the responsibility to obey laws?

Sent via tapatalk 2

aalvidrez
01-08-2013, 5:28 AM
These sort of topics came up during the first ban except I saw it on AOL. It begot the militia movement. It was used to propel the anti gun movement and to vilify the pro gun groups

taloft
01-08-2013, 5:45 AM
These threads are comedy gold.

Do you really think they are going to come bursting into your house at 3:00 a.m. and risk getting shot to take your firearms? They are smart enough to see that for the losing proposition it is.

For one thing, they don't have the man power to do that successfully. They'd lose through attrition. 80 million gun owners are vastly more than all LE and military combined. Even if they only lose one guy for every 50 owners they won't have enough people to complete the task.

What they will do is use technology to recon the owners. John Q. Public heads off to the salt mines at 6:00 a.m. and doesn't return until 4:00 p.m. So, they wait until you're at work then kill your dog, bypass your alarm system, waltz into your home and take it all without firing a shot. The only guns they won't get are those that are not there to be gotten. They wait until you return, or pick you up at work, and haul you off for further discussion about where the rest of your firearms are hidden. Once word gets out that this is happening, that is when it will get bad.

Of course, this will only occur after they chip away as much as possible via legal means. There is still plenty of chipping to do. Within two generations, they will have brainwashed the masses sufficiently to make their task so much easier to accomplish. Our Government is not in the habit of using losing strategies. Thinking that they will just start kicking in doors is mental masterbation at it's finest.

tcrpe
01-08-2013, 5:57 AM
What about the responsibility to obey the Constitution?

CDFingers
01-08-2013, 6:07 AM
The premise of the two part OP is weak because it relies on the .gov violating not only the Second, but the Fourth, the Fifth, and the Fourteenth Amendments.

Certainly any .gov doing that much violation should be opposed. Yet the facts do not exist to support the claims made in the OP.

The OP also claims that both DiFi and Obama said they were going to take your guns. This is not exactly the case. There is no record of Obama ever having said it (insert the not proven "under the radar" heresay), and DiFi said that they don't have the votes to ask Mr. and Mrs. America to "turn them in."

At the Fed level, gun grabbers would need more than 25 Republican votes in the House to pass any gun measures. Does anyone think the gun grabbers would get any Republican votes, let alone over 25? I don't. And that idea does not take into account that there are pro gun Dems who do not want to get dis elected in 2014.

While I respect the opinion posted, folks posting opinions on internet boards have to realize that some folks out here in cyber space actually read and critique such opinions.

I find the assertions in the OP weak and under supported.

CDFingers

IemCaMiengMy
01-08-2013, 6:12 AM
the point i think all of you might be missing is that you will not be fighting the men and women who voted to take your guns but only the minions who were told to go get them. Should you protect yourself and your legally owned property? Yes but every person determined to fight should converge on your legislative capitols to deal with the people who passed the laws. to win a fight you have to take down those who created the laws and overruled the majority to support the minority and special interests.

I don't think the red coats were the people writing the legislation either but the arm of the people doing it, if your not against it tab your with it, so if your out confiscating guns you have obviously made a choice to risk your life for your job, sadly I understand people don't want to lose there job

Sent from your moms phone using Tapatalk

tcrpe
01-08-2013, 6:15 AM
If they come for your rights, do you have a responsibility to fight?

infringed711
01-08-2013, 6:16 AM
If the US Government with the support of the Supreme Court decides to confiscate your firearms it is your responsibility as a US Citizen to give them up. If you don't like it renounce your citizenship and move to a country more to your liking. Period.


Really depends, if they properly write an ammendment to the Constitution then I agree, if they pass some bull**** mass confiscation law then I do not and actions will be taken. At this point all we can do is wait to see what they have up their sleeve and prepare ourselves for the worst

IemCaMiengMy
01-08-2013, 6:16 AM
What about the responsibility to obey laws?

Sent via tapatalk 2

Yeah our founding fathers definitely thought this before fighting the British

Sent from your moms phone using Tapatalk

chaunbot
01-08-2013, 7:36 AM
Say hello to my little friend

SpaceMan
01-08-2013, 8:20 AM
Me personally, I do not think this will happen, but it's not farfetched. I just think it should be brought to attention.

Right now as it stands, it's not going to start a civil war or anything. But later down the line when they really start stripping your rights I'm sure a lot more than just firearm owners would be involved. Would it be our responsibility as firearm owners to protect our firearms (our only form of defense) in the name of freedom and protecting your fellow American? Not all of us have unregistered (legally owned) firearms. People who aren't dedicated forum members or internet savvy from my experience have no idea what 80%'s are.

SpaceMan
01-08-2013, 8:20 AM
Me personally, I do not think this will happen, but it's not farfetched. I just think it should be brought to attention.

Right now as it stands, it's not going to start a civil war or anything. But later down the line when they really start stripping your rights I'm sure a lot more than just firearm owners would be involved. Would it be our responsibility as firearm owners to protect our firearms (our only form of defense) in the name of freedom and protecting your fellow American? Not all of us have unregistered (legally owned) firearms. People who aren't dedicated forum members or internet savvy from my experience have no idea what 80%'s are.

wecf
01-08-2013, 8:42 AM
Why would they come to your house? Wouldn't they just make them illegal and wait it out? If they come to get them they will just make martyrs and give people something to rally against. I believe they will not do anything. Forced registration if you do not comply too bad, now you are now a criminal and part of the reason guns should be illegal. No one will loose their guns just wont be able to transfer them and those that refuse will not be able to shoot them. Why would the government choose to start a CWII? Nope they will just continue to cut into our rights just enough so that we do nothing to stop them until they are gone.

Uxi
01-08-2013, 8:43 AM
lol Bobio has gotta be trollin'

SpaceMan
01-08-2013, 8:49 AM
Let me make it UBER clear for you.

If your home is raided at 3am by a group of pre-armed and pre-planned professionals, You dont have a snowballs chance of walking away the victor.

Some of the more subtle are trying to make it clear that you wont win playing a defensive game when the SHTF.

You pick your time.

You choose the place

You fight when YOU are Ready, YOU are Armed and YOU have a plan.

The Colonists didnt fight their battles in front of their house.

A smart soldier is a lethal soldier and A FREE AND LIVING soldier.


You think busting into an armed persons house at 3am is the smart choice of a professional? Specially if there are kids in the house? No... That's just asking for people to be hurt and killed. If I heard someone bust into my house at 3am announced or not in the daze of sleep I may not understand d what they are saying. Instinctually I'd grab my bedside pistol, and if I saw a firearm I'd be shooting for my life. And that right there has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with them coming for my guns. They just put me my family and their own lives at risk.

I don't believe every single person would have the opportunity to fight on their own terms in those circumstances.. If you give up all your means of defense, what are you to do? Hope that someone else who probably risked/risking their lives to protect their firearms is just going to hand you over a firearm? At that point firearms will be scarce and worth more than its weight in gold. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Like I said before I'm not saying this will happen or is happening. It's just a worst case scenario. Fighting back with deadly force is absolutely last resort.

I'm not a supporter of blowing holes through your door when they come knocking. But if its so bad to the point that like you said, they are literally breaking down doors into houses in tactical teams to come for you're stuff and its owner at 3am I think there is quite a bit if a problem. Just going by what you're saying, how can one sleep knowing that at any night a tactical team is going to raid your house, guns drawn risking lives. Grabbing a flash light or your glasses or reaching over to turn on your light risks being shot in site for reason to believe you were pulling a gun.. You wouldn't see the need to fight back?

Once a line is crossed how far will you go? How far back is that line drawn?

Sierra57
01-08-2013, 9:19 AM
If the US Government with the support of the Supreme Court decides to confiscate your firearms it is your responsibility as a US Citizen to give them up. If you don't like it renounce your citizenship and move to a country more to your liking. Period.

Does that apply to all citizens of the US, or only "evil right wing gun nuts"?


In the event that the government eventually sees fit to initiate a program to confiscate firearms from the citizenry, then Obama should ask the left to lead by example. He should request that the following demographics/groups to relinquish their firearms -
*Gang bangers and other inner city criminals
*Union members, especially those with a violent history
*Members of the American Communist party
*Members of the Black Panthers
*Occupy Wall Street and other far left anarchist organizations, many of whom are armed
*Any other liberal who is an otherwise law abiding citizen, but owns firearms
*Most of all, confiscation of firearms from the security details of leftist politicians and celebrities, and confiscation of firearms from leftist politicians and celebrities themselves.

Those listed above, being "good citizens" and faithful followers of the president, will cheerfully submit and peacefully turn over their firearms, correct?

No?

In that event, let the president initiate a program to forcibly confiscate
weapons from his kindly but erring followers. Let the government surround cities like Oakland and Detroit with National Guard troops, and send in the ATF, FBI, DEA, etc. with assistance from state and local law enforcement. Let them do house to house searches, kicking in doors if necessary. Dispense with nonsensical technicalities like warrants, Miranda rights, due process - hey, this is a national emergency and an urgent public safety issue, by Gawd!! Undertaken in the name of safety, security and civility!!

Like that would happen!! For one, if such a thing happened, the already thick airwaves would be blue once again with phony screams of racism and wails about having civil rights violated - aided and abetted once again by the media misinformation mafia. Besides, we know who this is really aimed at, that being "evil, right wing gun nuts".

But, but - the spirits of the children murdered in Connecticut cry out for justice! Disarming the citizens of America is the just and proper way to show that we hear them - right? Yes, indeed, you could make a case for that - if those calling for firearms confiscation hadn't stood silently by while far left dictators in other countries murdered – repeat - MURDERED over 125,000,000 of their own citizens. In truth, many on the left were not silent – no, they openly supported these dictators, and defend them to this day, with lofty dismissals of the slaughter such as "mistakes made in the name of progress".

But hey, this is America !! We're civilized!! That would never happen here!!

It is said that the shock of a tragedy or other mind numbing event, such as the horrendous murders in Conn. a few weeks ago, brings out the best and worst in people, including their innermost feelings. Since the shooting in Conn. many on the “civilized” left have made public their true feelings by going on Twitter, Facebook and other electronic public forums and calling for the murder of NRA members and other responsible gun owners, "*********s", conservatives, Christians, etc. I for one am happy we got to see the true thoughts of those who claim to be civilized. Even though many of these posts have since been deleted by their authors, many of their fellow citizens have made sure these comments have been enshrined for posterity by the simple act of copying the screen or page and pasting them to their computer files. These calls for the murder of fellow citizens number in the thousands.

It is sad to see so many fellow citizens willing to be totally enslaved to the will of the government and its flawed agenda - not that many already aren't. Apparently they never read 1984 or Brave New World. Then again, maybe they look at those books as the height of human "evolution" and the perfect model for civilization.

__________________________________________________ ______________

While we are at it, let's use the same "logic" and scenario and project it to the 1st Amendment, m'kay .....

Let’s see if the government would apply the same type of limitations, restrictions, and sanctions to the 1st Amendment as they are trying to do to the 2nd. This can be applied by the same standard that they are using to restrict (and eventually repeal, I would guess) the 2nd Amendment. That would be condemning the many for the actions of the few, in the name of safety and civility. This should be aimed specifically at all groups and demographics who are known to continually invoke the 1st Amendment as their right to perpetrate myths, misinformation and resultant envy and collective greed, in spite of the fact that only a relatively few of them actually invoke the 1st as a cover for their mayhem and violence.

First off, because of violent actions by members of groups like Occupy Wall St. and fringe members of organized labor, the following legislative action should be taken in the name of safety -
• All who plan to protest for any cause or organization shall register with local police and will submit to being fingerprinted and photographed by local police and the FBI, at the prospective protesters expense.
• A $200 tax shall be levied upon each protester for every organization they belong to, or are affiliated with.
• A $200 tax shall be levied for each protest, rally or any other event issues oriented event attended by registered demonstrator.
• Protestors will not be allowed to carry signs over 10 millimeters.
• Protestors will not be allowed to raise their collective voices over 10 decibels. Noise level monitors and decibel meters will be placed at intervals of no more than 30 apart along the route, rally and/or scene of the protest, paid for by the protesting parties/organizations
• Right to protest under the 1st Amendment will not be grandfathered in, or otherwise conferred upon, the descendents of individual protesters upon their death.
• All protesters who are not registered and attend any protest, rally and any other issues oriented event are subject to immediate arrest.

Let’s apply the same standards to all who post on internet forums, write letters to the editor, or express an opinion anywhere in public that may offend someone else.

__________________________________________________ ______________

Sounds pretty ridiculous, right?

That is exactly what they are doing to the 2nd Amendment.

If you don't like it renounce your citizenship and move to a country more to your liking. Period.

WeiseGuy
01-08-2013, 9:22 AM
So where's the sign up roster for the militia to defend our guns with our lives?

hammerhands32
01-08-2013, 10:04 AM
http://bellinghambabycompany.com/babystore/image.php?type=D&id=4409


So where's the sign up roster for the militia to defend our guns with our lives?

The Shadow
01-08-2013, 10:17 AM
Did somebody make the LE and politician interactive map, downloadable and printable by geographical area, with martial status and number of children yet?

Until that is done, I won't take any of you "confiscation defenders" serious.

Do you realize that it is ILLEGAL to post the address of a Peace Officer ?

LBDamned
01-08-2013, 10:37 AM
A deep respect of the US Constitution and the 2A is not restricted to those who are religious. That is simply religious bigotry.

I agree. and I feel it's important NOT to bring religion into the equation. If we want to look at history as a lesson learned - there are plenty of instances that show the bleak outcome of mixing religion with social freedoms.

Fighting for freedom as an American is important... dividing that fight by bringing religion to the table is a disaster.

LBDamned
01-08-2013, 10:43 AM
What I'm saying is the vast majority of keyboard warriors who have fantasies of going out like some movie hero are going to fall in the 99%.

it's amazing what people can accomplish when survival is on the line... don't sell people short.

morfeeis
01-08-2013, 10:48 AM
Pvf7wVsAp60
It's my hope that those that would come for my guns wouldn't.

donw
01-08-2013, 10:48 AM
when, and IF, this scenario ever comes to life, it will be because of a government that has become dictatorial and the situation will be much worse than just 2A rights...

JoshuaS
01-08-2013, 11:17 AM
What about the responsibility to obey laws?

Sent via tapatalk 2

We have to obey all laws. Agreed. But an unjust law is no law at all. It is only called a law by analogy.

The way I see it (and some classical/medieval scholars may know who I am essentially quoting) a law is an ordinance of reason, for the common good of a community, duly promulgate by one/ones having authority to do so.

A law that commands you to do something morally wrong, for instance, is not a true ordinance of reason, and certainly not for the common good. It must not be obeyed. But even laws that command something not in itself wrong, may be unjust.

1. A law that is unduly burdensome and harmful to the common good. Maybe, say a law that makes a minor difference in public health, but severely hurts the economy.

2. A law that is for the good of a certain class over another, rather than the good of all insofar as they belong to the same community

3. A law that may even be great, but commanded by one without the authority to do so.

At the very least, a law banning all guns (highly unlikely) would fall afoul of number 3. They have no authority to make such a law. Even if such a law was great in itself. The 2nd amendment, even if not rooted in natural law, or natural rights, is still the law of the land, if for no other reason than positive human law. To disregard it, is to disregard the rule of law.

Hence there is no obeying it, as it isn't a real law. One may, depending on circumstances, observe it externally. But they may also civilly disobey, if reasoned deliberation says that can right the injustice. And sometimes they may even resist with force, if done so with counsel and thought to the end of justice.

Nothing above is unique to me. Heck it is the classical doctrine of the West, going back at least 800 years, and really much more than that

LBDamned
01-08-2013, 11:59 AM
Pvf7wVsAp60
It's my hope that those that would come for my guns wouldn't.

Great video!

I've said it (way prior to current panic) that LE and Military will be pivotal if it comes to worse case scenario... there will be some on each side... but I believe the ones that are true Americans will be on our side.

TBA Tactical
01-08-2013, 12:31 PM
I am reading this thread and was wondering if all firearms in CA are registered in some way?? I am from NH and we have no reg. at any level for any firearms. I do realize that the Feds can eventually find out about the serialized firearms I own but they would have to pull all the paper records in the local gun shops in order to compile a list. ( I see that as being extremely labor intensive).

Icy
01-08-2013, 12:44 PM
Do you realize that it is ILLEGAL to post the address of a Peace Officer ?

Really, do you have the law on that? Can you post it here?

goodlookin1
01-08-2013, 12:44 PM
What about the responsibility to obey laws?

Sent via tapatalk 2

Laws that are unconstitutional are null and void :oji:

domino
01-08-2013, 12:47 PM
The premise of the two part OP is weak because it relies on the .gov violating not only the Second, but the Fourth, the Fifth, and the Fourteenth Amendments.

Certainly any .gov doing that much violation should be opposed. Yet the facts do not exist to support the claims made in the OP.

The OP also claims that both DiFi and Obama said they were going to take your guns. This is not exactly the case. There is no record of Obama ever having said it (insert the not proven "under the radar" heresay), and DiFi said that they don't have the votes to ask Mr. and Mrs. America to "turn them in."

At the Fed level, gun grabbers would need more than 25 Republican votes in the House to pass any gun measures. Does anyone think the gun grabbers would get any Republican votes, let alone over 25? I don't. And that idea does not take into account that there are pro gun Dems who do not want to get dis elected in 2014.

While I respect the opinion posted, folks posting opinions on internet boards have to realize that some folks out here in cyber space actually read and critique such opinions.

I find the assertions in the OP weak and under supported.

CDFingers

You are correct with your insertion that it would need 25 votes to get passed. But lets face it - OBOZO is not talking about getting new laws passed through the house at all. He plans to bypass the house and senate. He plans to sign an executive order - Biden said today that he will have new laws that will be ready to be signed via EO immediately by the end of this month. Ron Paul has said for so long that EO's are unconstitutional and that had he been elected he would have signed just one EO and that would have been to end any future EO's.

This is more scary than anything else to me. This president has said he will do what he wants. To me this is a dictatorship with him making these comments. He has even said recently that he will not negotiate this and several other important items such as the debt ceiling with republicans anymore. When he doesnt get his way he is a baby and he calls it negotiating but beware of the pen - he will be signing many EO's this term and we will look more socialist than ever.

arslin
01-08-2013, 12:47 PM
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”

-Samuel Adams

Cnynrat
01-08-2013, 1:49 PM
I am reading this thread and was wondering if all firearms in CA are registered in some way?? I am from NH and we have no reg. at any level for any firearms. I do realize that the Feds can eventually find out about the serialized firearms I own but they would have to pull all the paper records in the local gun shops in order to compile a list. ( I see that as being extremely labor intensive).

All handguns purchased in CA since 1991 (I believe that's the correct date) are registered.

We have a new law starting 1/1/2014 that requires registration of all new long gun purchases/transfers.

stix213
01-08-2013, 2:03 PM
True wisdom, excellent point.. Seems you have experience in these matters.;)

My interweb commando skills are at level 20, thanks ;)

Chatterbox
01-08-2013, 2:08 PM
That would be ok, because I lost my Bobio in a tragic boating accident on Pyramid lake while in Nevada.

Sigworthy!

cruising7388
01-08-2013, 2:24 PM
My guess is maybe 1-2% of the general population has the knowledge and skills to survive a true SHTF situation. Most people can't run 50 yards without hyperventilating, yet they're gonna arm up and go on some super tactical defensive mission against trained individuals who outgun them? Yeah, right.

This thread is suffering from mass delusion. What purpose would be served by refining some tactical defensive mission when there will be no tactical offensive mission. Why assume that there would be any threats of force when no threat of force is necessary? All that is required by a government minion is a polite request for you to turn over your weapons in compliance with the current law, whatever that is. If you tell them you refuse, they will undoubtedly studiously avoid any further confrontation and they will politely withdraw.

Then, (in no particular order) the following events will take place:

A boot will be placed on your vehicle(s) tire.

Your house power will be turned off

Your natural gas/propane will be turned off.

Your fresh water/well pump will be disabled.

Your sewer line will be blocked off.

Your internet access will be disabled.

Your cable service will be terminated.

Your mail will be diverted.

Your cellphone service will be terminated.

Your landline telephone will be turned off.

Your garbage service will be canceled.

Your bank account will be frozen.

Your credit cards will be canceled.

Your driver's license and registrations will be suspended.


Odds are, you'll eventually see the wisdom of their ways.:rolleyes:

cruising7388
01-08-2013, 2:25 PM
My guess is maybe 1-2% of the general population has the knowledge and skills to survive a true SHTF situation. Most people can't run 50 yards without hyperventilating, yet they're gonna arm up and go on some super tactical defensive mission against trained individuals who outgun them? Yeah, right.

This thread is suffering from mass delusion. What purpose would be served by refining some tactical defensive mission when there will be no tactical offensive mission. Why assume that there would be any threats of force when no threat of force is necessary? All that is required by a government minion is a polite request for you to turn over your weapons in compliance with the current law, whatever that is. If you tell them you refuse, they will undoubtedly studiously avoid any further confrontation and they will politely withdraw.

Then, (in no particular order) the following events will take place:

A boot will be placed on your vehicle(s) tire.

Your house power will be turned off

Your natural gas/propane will be turned off.

Your fresh water/well pump will be disabled.

Your sewer line will be blocked off.

Your internet access will be disabled.

Your cable service will be terminated.

Your mail will be diverted.

Your cellphone service will be terminated.

Your landline telephone will be turned off.

Your garbage service will be canceled.

Your bank account will be frozen.

Your credit cards will be canceled.

Your driver's license and registrations will be suspended.


Odds are, you'll eventually see the wisdom of their ways.:rolleyes:

SpaceMan
01-08-2013, 6:45 PM
"Let's not dear friends, forget our dear friends, the cuttlefish."

-Capt. Jack Sparrow

guntrust
01-08-2013, 7:55 PM
Yes, this is every republican's responsibility. Every one who is able.

Anyone who does not fight back deserves to be ostracized.

guntrust
01-08-2013, 7:55 PM
Yes, this is every republican's responsibility. Every one who is able.

Anyone who does not fight back deserves to be ostracized.

Alan Block
01-08-2013, 8:05 PM
If the police come to get them, turn them in. You will be able to get more. Think of how the French partisans equiped themselves during WWII.

3006
01-08-2013, 8:41 PM
I been reading this thread and getting more pissed by the minute is hard to turn a blind eye and not notice the police are becoming more and more like a military special forces units!
In the medium to small town I live in everyone used to know all the local officers by name no more they fired all of them and hired ones from the big city.
Anyone that thinks they wont take away the second admen t better pull there head out of the sand and look California (you can have a gun you just cant ever take it out of your safe much less go out side with it) :confused:

The way to fight them is the second Obama signs an any kind of executive order is for every gun owner in the USA TOO WITHDRAW EVERY DIME FROM ARE BANK ACCOUNTS (and let them know that we will do it)
There isn't even close to enough cash to even begin to cover it! They pay us no interest to keep in the bank anyway.

dchang0
01-08-2013, 9:12 PM
Your house would be flipped upside down. They would either find your stash or take you in for god knows what kind of interrogation. Well that's how I see it happening. It's not like their looking for a pack of bubble gum.

What they will do is use technology to recon the owners. John Q. Public heads off to the salt mines at 6:00 a.m. and doesn't return until 4:00 p.m. So, they wait until you're at work then kill your dog, bypass your alarm system, waltz into your home and take it all without firing a shot. The only guns they won't get are those that are not there to be gotten. They wait until you return, or pick you up at work, and haul you off for further discussion about where the rest of your firearms are hidden. Once word gets out that this is happening, that is when it will get bad.

Sad to say it, since I have friends in LEO/military, but it would behoove the revolutionaries to BOOBY TRAP things in their homes such that if agents did turn the house upside down in enough homes, they'd lose enough lives to stop and reconsider their approach. That would work for a while, until they start capturing the inhabitants first outside of their homes and torturing them for the locations of the guns and booby traps, but this would inevitably net some falsely-accused gun owners who would be tortured with no booby traps to reveal and then some supposed gun owners that actually don't own any guns and who would then become rallying points for the rest of the revolution.

Asymmetric warfare is nasty, but that's what many revolutionary groups have had to deal with for thousands of years. Any new revolutionaries should examine the Arab Spring and other recent uprisings for tips on how to use social media to organize rapidly and effectively. Any new revolutions will all have a viral component to them, with martyrdom playing a huge part.

remington
01-08-2013, 9:44 PM
I read all these responses. The one thing that I may have missed is that their is an assumption that all Leo and military would do it if ordered. Even in NYC not every cop would do it. Same with military. Now look at it regionally. Montana, Alaska, utah, etc. Good luck. The second amendment already succeeded in a way. All it would take is three or more civilians to create major issues times 1000. This is not Afghanistan. It not possible for the government grab them. Wanna bet some agency already has a study and loss estimates?

That said it does not mean that if you don't have an ar15 now, you may not get one or pay thru the ***. May not even be able transfer them. But if you got it, no one can come get them...nationally.

MattyB
01-09-2013, 12:17 AM
I read all these responses. The one thing that I may have missed is that their is an assumption that all Leo and military would do it if ordered. Even in NYC not every cop would do it. Same with military.

I have overwhelming confidence that the military will not just disregard orders to disarm the nation but they will also fight on our side if it came to that.

I have less faith in the LEOs. That faith however has improved as I talk with them online where they arent on duty and arent subject to the typical scrutiny. With that said, there is a large contingent that are very gung ho and will rationalize that as long as they have theirs, you dont matter.

IF they come for every ones guns, expect the police and expect them to target those with known quantities first. They will want to reduce the amount of guns as fast as possible and will target those that have the most (and dont think they cant figure that out, they figured it out in NY regarding the firefighter shooter around Christmas).

There will be a few that will be disarmed and then we will hear about it. At that point it will be up to each individual if they are going to stand watch, get the hell out of town or give up their guns. I expect most to give em up and the rest to hide them or hide themselves. The rest may be a few percent of gun owners and that is what will make or break a forcible confiscation attempt.

With all that said, I have a feeling that they will just use monetary penalties up to putting you on the street if you do not comply. Its effective and is in use now. Just think about what happens when you dont pay your taxes long enough, the lien your home and then ultimately take it.

dc2integra
01-09-2013, 2:03 AM
As a ARMY soldier if I was ordered to confiscate weapons from civilians I would say **** you and take off my uniform I will take a dishonarable discharge to protect the rights we have fought for and earned.I am currently in afghanistan too.

dc2integra
01-09-2013, 2:04 AM
Hearing about all this bs while im in afganistan really pisses me off.

badicedog
01-09-2013, 2:06 AM
If it came right down to it and people had to choose between their guns or going down in a blaze of glory, I think most people are going to give up their guns.

^^^This especially if you have a family with kids involved...

dc2integra
01-09-2013, 2:12 AM
^^^This especially if you have a family with kids involved...

You my friend need to change your avatar ASAP.

dc2integra
01-09-2013, 2:15 AM
^^^This especially if you have a family with kids involved...

Hypocrite.

stix213
01-09-2013, 2:19 AM
I been reading this thread and getting more pissed by the minute is hard to turn a blind eye and not notice the police are becoming more and more like a military special forces units!
In the medium to small town I live in everyone used to know all the local officers by name no more they fired all of them and hired ones from the big city.
Anyone that thinks they wont take away the second admen t better pull there head out of the sand and look California (you can have a gun you just cant ever take it out of your safe much less go out side with it) :confused:

The way to fight them is the second Obama signs an any kind of executive order is for every gun owner in the USA TOO WITHDRAW EVERY DIME FROM ARE BANK ACCOUNTS (and let them know that we will do it)
There isn't even close to enough cash to even begin to cover it! They pay us no interest to keep in the bank anyway.

Welcome to Calguns

badicedog
01-09-2013, 2:32 AM
@dc2integra... How am I hypocrite? I'm not a keyboard commando !

Extra411
01-09-2013, 3:31 AM
"They" won't "come for" your guns.

I'm not sure why so many people believe that "they" will. Yes, some of the gun-control people are vocal about radical solutions, but those fantasies are unrealistic and unfeasible on a wide scale in America, at least today.

What they are currently pursuing is already the most effective method - by limiting firearms over long periods of time, after some point there will no longer be many firearms left to regulate. They'll continue to restrict firearms little by little, and allow you to keep your grandfathering, while seeking opportunities to restrict your ability to transfer them. After a couple decades, what you own will have become non-transferable antiques/relics, and no new supply of firearms will be added to the population. Once you are dead, your firearms die with you. Think NFA but worse - without new additions, the supply of legal machine guns will keep dwindling until their quantity is irrelevant.


Now, look at this long term strategy:

Step 1: Regulate a group of firearms (such as machine guns, "assault weapons", "large caliber weapons" what-have-you). The purpose of this step is not to "ban" those firearms but to restrict supply, and to add legitimacy to a potential future ban. It's important to allow "grandfathering" to placate as many gun owners as possible. This will naturally reduce supply even without an outright ban ever taking place. Also, they'll need to make sure the public can never get their hands on new weapon developments. "Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watts range"? Obviously not for civilian acquisition. Hey, you might laugh about this now, but it won't be so funny in another 50 years. AR15? Who the hell cares when a phased plasma rifle can cut a building in half, and new body armor developments completely nullify conventionally propelled projectiles.

Step 2: Continue to demonize firearms and discourage civilian contact with firearms as much as possible. Make it cumbersome for people to own/acquire firearms legally to discourage familiarity and knowledge with them. Do whatever is necessary to make firearms culturally unacceptable, particularly to newer generations of people.

Step 3: Assuming step 2 is successful, or that firearms regulated in step 1 are sufficiently diminished in the hands of the public - push for non-transfer regulations. Think about it: how many "average Americans" would care about a new law proposed today, making say, machine guns non-transferable? The vast majority would either say, "I thought they were already banned anyway" or that "I don't own one so I don't care" (after a couple decades very few people will own one), so there will be little resistance to this. And by enacting this legislation, it will effectively ban legal ownership of said group of firearms within another few decades.

Step 4: Repeat Steps 1 to 3 for as many groups of firearms as possible, in a progressive manner. Don't just limit it to firearms either - also make similar regulations regarding ammunition, magazines, and other firearms related materials.

Step 5: Pursue more drastic measure/legislatures when opportunities arise. Or, when the time is right (the majority of the population is for gun-control over years of propaganda), demand "mandatory turn-ins".

If they would just follow this strategy, it would eventually be successful over a long period of time. The key is in incremental victories. If they can have even a minor victory in 10 years, of saying, a permanent "assault weapon ban", then it would be counted as a success. There will be no need for confiscations or "uprisings". It's akin to a "constrictor" - they don't have to bite you to kill you. They'll just make sure each breath you exhale is air that won't return to your lungs, and kill you by methodical asphyxiation. No blood spilled.

There are two real threats against this strategy:
1) The threat that the incremental laws they enact might be overturned. This is obviously no good and counterproductive to the cause.
2) The restriction on firearm supply is ineffective. Of course the "bullet button" is a loophole exploit, because it renders the supply limitation ineffective! And then there's the fact that the total amount of estimated firearms in America keeps climbing at a fairly rapid rate, which is again, a reflection of the ineffectiveness of the current regulations. To truly utilize this strategy they need to slow the rate of firearm influx. But rest assured they are trying their hardest.

I believe this approach is a far more plausible scenario to reducing firearms in America than an outright confiscation. Just look over the past 100 years at the progress they already made, particularly in California. If in another couple decades, they can bring the rest of the nation to Californian levels, and move California to Chicago levels, then it'll be a win for them. In another couple decades you can wave your non-existent 2A good bye.

javalos
01-09-2013, 4:31 AM
Nobody is coming to your door to get your guns. Sigh. :facepalm:

They will simply threaten you with jail and people will meekly comply.

javalos
01-09-2013, 4:37 AM
You may disagree with my reasoning here, but I believe it would be a sinful waste of life to pointlessly resist.

By this I mean, if you draw and fire what is likely to happen? You are dead, and you also hurt the cause. It screams to the general populace, see gun owners are dangerous. Much smarter to take legal action where appropriate. Also if you have any guns under the radar, keep those separate and just give them the ones they know about. When it comes down to it, a bunch of cops and just you, your life is not worth your guns.

And frankly, most people who write this stuff, when it comes down to it, will reason the same way. If not out of moral considerations, then out of love of their own life.
Glad the Founding Fathers didn't think this way.

javalos
01-09-2013, 4:44 AM
If the US Government with the support of the Supreme Court decides to confiscate your firearms it is your responsibility as a US Citizen to give them up. If you don't like it renounce your citizenship and move to a country more to your liking. Period.

Really? Roll over like a dog with his tail between his legs. Don't wait, turn them over now.

Sierra57
01-09-2013, 7:52 AM
Sad to say it, since I have friends in LEO/military, but it would behoove the revolutionaries to BOOBY TRAP things in their homes such that if agents did turn the house upside down in enough homes, they'd lose enough lives to stop and reconsider their approach. That would work for a while, until they start capturing the inhabitants first outside of their homes and torturing them for the locations of the guns and booby traps, but this would inevitably net some falsely-accused gun owners who would be tortured with no booby traps to reveal and then some supposed gun owners that actually don't own any guns and who would then become rallying points for the rest of the revolution.

Asymmetric warfare is nasty, but that's what many revolutionary groups have had to deal with for thousands of years. Any new revolutionaries should examine the Arab Spring and other recent uprisings for tips on how to use social media to organize rapidly and effectively. Any new revolutions will all have a viral component to them, with martyrdom playing a huge part.

"No, Officer Jackboot, why would I hide my firearms in a garbage can?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8v10pPmwt8

Wherryj
01-09-2013, 11:52 AM
Just google them. Most of them show up on sites that look into this type of thing. It really isn't difficult to spot a phony, anyway; If you've ever read any published material from the time period in question, you'll see that our "version" of the English language is quite a bit different than theirs.

Thiis most typically used by antis to twist the meaning of these writings as well. Militia had an entirely different meaning when the Constitution was framed than it has currently. Somehow that seems to be THE controversy about the 2A and why it is the ONLY amendment in an entire Constitution and Bill of Rights written to LIMIT government that is expressly written to protect the government's right to have an armed militia.

Wherryj
01-09-2013, 11:53 AM
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTUzMzg4MTg2M15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNDM4OTk4._V1._ SY317_CR6,0,214,317_.jpg
"No, Officer Jackboot, why would I hide my firearms in a garbage can?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8v10pPmwt8

stix213
01-09-2013, 12:10 PM
"They" won't "come for" your guns.

I'm not sure why so many people believe that "they" will. Yes, some of the gun-control people are vocal about radical solutions, but those fantasies are unrealistic and unfeasible on a wide scale in America, at least today.


Yes, I agree, gun confiscations are a complete fantasy

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=California+SKS+Confiscation

:facepalm:

Extra411
01-09-2013, 3:28 PM
Yes, I agree, gun confiscations are a complete fantasy

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=California+SKS+Confiscation

:facepalm:

I'm aware of incidents on a small scale, Katrina, etc. On a national scale, especially in states that aren't like California, it's highly unlikely.

QQQ
01-09-2013, 3:35 PM
I'm aware of incidents on a small scale, Katrina, etc. On a national scale, especially in states that aren't like California, it's highly unlikely.

Guess where most of us on this web site live?

Extra411
01-09-2013, 3:51 PM
Guess where most of us on this web site live?

We're already screwed in California; this should be news to no one.
But at least on the national stage, there are some saner states that won't tolerate this kind of crap here. If that wasn't the case, and every state had senators like DiFi, then 2A would've been gone a long time ago.

But again California is a good example of what I said in my earlier post - that the best way to get rid of guns in the public without bloodshed is by incremental regulations, and not confiscation, until a "critical mass" time when they have the support of the public majority/opinion to apply more caustic measures. Right now is not that time on the national level.

RJohnson
01-09-2013, 4:00 PM
99.99% will submit and hand over their firearms. The 00.01% who shoot at law enforcers will most likely fail miserably.

WeekendWarrior
01-09-2013, 4:26 PM
You may disagree with my reasoning here, but I believe it would be a sinful waste of life to pointlessly resist.

By this I mean, if you draw and fire what is likely to happen? You are dead, and you also hurt the cause. It screams to the general populace, see gun owners are dangerous. Much smarter to take legal action where appropriate. Also if you have any guns under the radar, keep those separate and just give them the ones they know about. When it comes down to it, a bunch of cops and just you, your life is not worth your guns.

And frankly, most people who write this stuff, when it comes down to it, will reason the same way. If not out of moral considerations, then out of love of their own life.

Either that or you become a Martyr for the cause . Your friends and family will be on the news, on social media, etc. telling stories about how good of a person you were, how much you loved our Country, and how you were willing to give your life to protect the Constitution's guiding principals that made our Nation great. A few incidents like this and it will be clear that the Government is causing the bloodshed. Keep in mind, it would be Government knocking on our doors that results in deaths, not the other way around. Remember what happened after Waco? The number of Militias sky rocketed. Now imagine what would happen if these incidents were occurring across the country as the government blatantly trampled the rights outlined in the Constitution... I'm pretty sure people would rise up and take a stand if such events ever came to pass. Seeing story after story about the government kicking in peoples doors and killing them to get their guns would motivate people in the same way 9/11 did. America, the People, would be under attack by our own Government.

BTW, I don't think a confiscation is going to happen. At least suddenly (if it happens at all). But I do acknowledge the possibility it may occur based on what we have seen happen in other countries - a gradual erosion of gun rights that led to eventual confiscations, despite repeated promises and assurances by those governments that such confiscations would never occur. Oh, and by the way, long gun registration starts next January... just saying.

:confused:

kbenson
01-09-2013, 4:53 PM
I still remember when the authorities seized the little boy in Florida. His dad (living in Cuba) wanted him returned. Local citizens formed a watch group to keep him in a local home.
They stormed the home and took the boy in a late night maneuver, with little resistance.

resistance is futile and could cost u or a loved one serious injury (or worse)

Tarn_Helm
01-09-2013, 4:55 PM
I (SpaceMan) DID NOT WRITE THIS.

I believe Montezumaz, a fellow MarlinOwners(.)com member wrote it. It will be split up into 2 sections as its too long for one post. . . . continued . . .

:facepalm:

It is way too early for this kind of rhetoric.

Right now your responsibility is to write to your congressmen, state legislators, governor, the POTUS, etc.

No one should not be posting stuff like this online anyway--unless he wants a visit from men in black helicopters.

:cool:

3006
01-09-2013, 5:38 PM
I'm aware of incidents on a small scale, Katrina, etc. On a national scale, especially in states that aren't like California, it's highly unlikely.

Believe me theirs lots of guns and gun lovers in CA
CA is just like the rest of the Nation meaning its the vote is all controlled by the big city's we happen to have 3 very large blue city's but most the state is red just like rest of the nation .
If we could just get the bay area, New York city Los Angeles Detroit and last but not lest the district of Columbia to secede form the nation we would be good to go

DragRag
01-09-2013, 5:58 PM
Do I think the Gestapo is coming? Short answer, no. Would I fight a smart calculated fight? Short answer, yes.

DragRag
01-09-2013, 5:58 PM
Do I think the Gestapo is coming? Short answer, no. Would I fight a smart calculated fight? Short answer, yes.

jamesob
01-09-2013, 6:14 PM
If they come and try and take mine, I'll give them some old piece of crap. I then know who to " talk to" about righting the wrong.:43:

TheWhopper
01-09-2013, 8:14 PM
Yes, you should or eventually will have to fight IF it happens...but pick your battles.


Could gun confiscation happen?
ANSWER: Absolutely. It's happened throughout history, it's happend in the 20th Century, and it's going to happen again....just a matter of time.

https://www.intellectualrevolution.tv/wp-content/uploads/What-Happens-When-GUN-CONFISCATION-Is-Forced-On-People-By-Their-Government.png

Don't think the U.S. Government is capable of disarming people and imprisoning U.S. citizens on U.S. soil with no crime being committed?
(see ANSWER above)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__hspjzfC024/TRl_wP8rXpI/AAAAAAAACZs/dcVIRVT5BmA/s1600/internment-camps-for-muslims.jpg

Would soldiers shoot innocent people if ordered?
(see ANSWER above)

http://commentisfreewatch.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/holocaust-nazi-shooting-mother-holding-child.jpg

What should someone do?
Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape (SERE) Many of us have families we have to protect. Wouldn't be helpful throwing away our lives with guns blazing. However, you don't need to 'completely' disarm yourself...and there are plenty of inexpensive firearms....ahem.

Probably take a martyr to rally people together. Someone will eventually have to make the ultimate sacrifice....It sounds cheesy, but that's what usually happens.

If nothing happens...GREAT....but...luck favors the prepared. (my 2 cents)

bocada
01-09-2013, 11:14 PM
Come on, guys. Would you ever have imagined rifles you owned would require a 'tool' to eject the mag and load another? Would you have believed that you would live in a state where a law restricting you to purchasing 50 rnds a month would almost pass? That in the 90s they would do something as knee-jerk as 'banning' something based on cosmetics? Why do you underestimate the sliminess of your politicians? I don't get it.
Probably nothing major will probably happen at the federal level but there is nothing stopping states from going ape-sh*t. (See the current Governor of NY, various CT politicians and Illinois.) Its not all paranoia. There is momentum and a willing media with a 24/7 drum-beat on their side this time. Dismissing it all as hysteria is just going to catch you unaware if it does happen. You have insurance for everything else in your life, how about making sure you think about how to insure your rights? You know, just in case.

bocada
01-09-2013, 11:17 PM
Also, reading through this, its true you don't want to get into a gun battle with the folks coming to take your guns if that ever did happen. It will obviously be some agency at the state or federal level. All you need to do is continually divert their attention elsewhere if a confiscation started. No one on either side has to be hurt. I won't go into any details (who knows who reads this site!) I'll let you all think about how to do it.

Guns4ever
01-10-2013, 5:13 AM
There is an excellent book out there called "Essential liberty" which covers the what if scenario on this thread. In my opinion a great read.

Findout
01-10-2013, 10:27 PM
Come on, guys. Would you ever have imagined rifles you owned would require a 'tool' to eject the mag and load another? Would you have believed that you would live in a state where a law restricting you to purchasing 50 rnds a month would almost pass? That in the 90s they would do something as knee-jerk as 'banning' something based on cosmetics? Why do you underestimate the sliminess of your politicians? I don't get it.
Probably nothing major will probably happen at the federal level but there is nothing stopping states from going ape-sh*t. (See the current Governor of NY, various CT politicians and Illinois.) Its not all paranoia. There is momentum and a willing media with a 24/7 drum-beat on their side this time. Dismissing it all as hysteria is just going to catch you unaware if it does happen. You have insurance for everything else in your life, how about making sure you think about how to insure your rights? You know, just in case.

Excellent post right here. People who dismiss the idea of government-ordered full disarmament are as naive as all hell.

GREASY357
01-11-2013, 2:49 PM
People who dismiss the idea of government-ordered full disarmament are as naive as all hell.

YES

SpaceMan
01-19-2013, 9:14 AM
Lets hear some more thoughts!


BUMP

Lone_Gunman
01-19-2013, 10:37 AM
I have a question. Who exactly is going to do the disarming? There are somewhere around 100,000,000 gun owners in the USA. If even 1/2 of 1% of these gun owners refused to turn in their guns that's 500,000 homes that would have to be raided to confiscate firearms.

Now, does the Federal government have the resources to execute 500,000 swat style raids in a short time? It would have to be in a short time, before word got out and resistance started to build. The answer is no, they don't have the resources, so it would fall to local agencies to do the raids. So, how many local guys are going to go breaking down their neighbors doors to take their guns? Maybe some, I'll grant you that. There would be some guys willing to do it the first day. So how many swat raids can a local agency perform in a day? 10? 15? 20? I certainly don't think there is any way they could perform more than 10 in a day, but lets say they're superior SWAT guys with amazing skills, and they can do 20 SWAT raids in a day.

Ok, so day one, local agency X gets the word that there are to be mass confiscations of weapons. 1/3 of the guys say "no, I won't do it", and turn in their badges. The rest decide they're on board and roll out to execute the raids. How many raids do you figure they'd get through before word gets out and somebody starts shooting? Lets be generous and say they make it through the ENTIRE day without anyone shooting back, say they made 18 successful swat style raids. Now they're exhausted and need to go home and rest. Home to the suburbs, where there is no extra security for them. How well is the officer going to sleep that night? Every car that drives through the neighborhood is now a threat because he spent the day stomping on liberty, every second is a second a Molotov cocktail could come through his front window, or smash on his roof. How well is he going to sleep that night?

Day 2 how many officers come back for another day? Lets say only a couple guys drop out, but now the word is out, and there is armed resistance. On the second raid of the day some "gun nut" starts shooting back, and he's not shooting a pistol, he's shooting a rifle, and has enough sense to go for the upper legs where there's no ballistic plates. Two officers down, "gun nut" is dead. How many guys go on to raid number three? They make it through another 3 raids without incident, but they're exhausted, and on what's going to be the last raid of the day another officer gets shot. It's only a shoulder wound, but he's shot none the less. Now counting the guys that turned in their badges, the guys that didn't come back after day one, and the guys that got shot there is a pretty big dent in the personnel, and this super hotshot agency has managed to do 24 raids in 2 days. The officers are exhausted, and have to return home to sleep.

How many officers come home to burned down houses? To cars with slashed tires? See, no one is protecting their homes while they're out trampling on people rights, and people will fight back. Maybe on night 2 some Molotov cocktails actually get thrown, or there is a drive by or 2.

How many guys come back for day 3?

And on it goes. They're outnumbered, they know it, we know it. They would have to be suicidal to try to confiscate our guns. It is not going to happen. They are going to try to legislate our rights away, but we hold the trump card, WE HAVE MORE GUNS THAN THEY DO.

thefitter
01-19-2013, 11:06 AM
Do you realize that it is ILLEGAL to post the address of a Peace Officer ?

Penal code?

Bhobbs
01-19-2013, 11:48 AM
Very few gun owners would resist. The few that do will be quickly killed off and labeled extremist. They will also be used the justify removing the 2A.

Anchors
01-19-2013, 11:52 AM
If the US Government with the support of the Supreme Court decides to confiscate your firearms it is your responsibility as a US Citizen to give them up. If you don't like it renounce your citizenship and move to a country more to your liking. Period.

No. There are literally no other first world countries that still trust their citizens with arms.
If they don't like guns, they can move to any other country in Europe or Asian.
I'm not going anywhere.

jpigeon
01-19-2013, 12:07 PM
:gun_bandana: If attacked you gotta fight.

SanPedroShooter
01-19-2013, 12:18 PM
I have a question. Who exactly is going to do the disarming? There are somewhere around 100,000,000 gun owners in the USA. If even 1/2 of 1% of these gun owners refused to turn in their guns that's 500,000 homes that would have to be raided to confiscate firearms.

Now, does the Federal government have the resources to execute 500,000 swat style raids in a short time? It would have to be in a short time, before word got out and resistance started to build. The answer is no, they don't have the resources, so it would fall to local agencies to do the raids. So, how many local guys are going to go breaking down their neighbors doors to take their guns? Maybe some, I'll grant you that. There would be some guys willing to do it the first day. So how many swat raids can a local agency perform in a day? 10? 15? 20? I certainly don't think there is any way they could perform more than 10 in a day, but lets say they're superior SWAT guys with amazing skills, and they can do 20 SWAT raids in a day.

Ok, so day one, local agency X gets the word that there are to be mass confiscations of weapons. 1/3 of the guys say "no, I won't do it", and turn in their badges. The rest decide they're on board and roll out to execute the raids. How many raids do you figure they'd get through before word gets out and somebody starts shooting? Lets be generous and say they make it through the ENTIRE day without anyone shooting back, say they made 18 successful swat style raids. Now they're exhausted and need to go home and rest. Home to the suburbs, where there is no extra security for them. How well is the officer going to sleep that night? Every car that drives through the neighborhood is now a threat because he spent the day stomping on liberty, every second is a second a Molotov cocktail could come through his front window, or smash on his roof. How well is he going to sleep that night?

Day 2 how many officers come back for another day? Lets say only a couple guys drop out, but now the word is out, and there is armed resistance. On the second raid of the day some "gun nut" starts shooting back, and he's not shooting a pistol, he's shooting a rifle, and has enough sense to go for the upper legs where there's no ballistic plates. Two officers down, "gun nut" is dead. How many guys go on to raid number three? They make it through another 3 raids without incident, but they're exhausted, and on what's going to be the last raid of the day another officer gets shot. It's only a shoulder wound, but he's shot none the less. Now counting the guys that turned in their badges, the guys that didn't come back after day one, and the guys that got shot there is a pretty big dent in the personnel, and this super hotshot agency has managed to do 24 raids in 2 days. The officers are exhausted, and have to return home to sleep.

How many officers come home to burned down houses? To cars with slashed tires? See, no one is protecting their homes while they're out trampling on people rights, and people will fight back. Maybe on night 2 some Molotov cocktails actually get thrown, or there is a drive by or 2.

How many guys come back for day 3?

And on it goes. They're outnumbered, they know it, we know it. They would have to be suicidal to try to confiscate our guns. It is not going to happen. They are going to try to legislate our rights away, but we hold the trump card, WE HAVE MORE GUNS THAN THEY DO.

We need to fight now so we dont have to fight later.

Keep your powder dry.

spetsnaz
01-19-2013, 12:34 PM
if they come for your guns you've already failed. stop them before it gets to that point. do research on the candidates before you vote for them

HBrebel
01-19-2013, 1:18 PM
Just a question for you and to everyone else who thinks its a waste of life to "pointlessly resist". At what point do you resist? After your guns are taken away?? I'm not knocking you or anyone for where they stand, but, at least be honest and admit that you'd rather live on your knees than die on your feet.

+1111

RobertSmith
01-19-2013, 2:00 PM
It's not going to happen. Stop asking the question.

Paltik
01-19-2013, 2:20 PM
...And on it goes. They're outnumbered, they know it, we know it. They would have to be suicidal to try to confiscate our guns. It is not going to happen. They are going to try to legislate our rights away, but we hold the trump card, WE HAVE MORE GUNS THAN THEY DO.

That's a nice theory. Now consider the reality:

In the aftermath of Katrina, LEO's were ordered to confiscate guns. They did. Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4. There was no effective resistance, no general uprising by gunowners across the country defending the 2nd amendment. Just people saying it was wrong--people no longer possessing guns, people lobbying their representatives, people on Internet forums.

But you're right--why risk a confiscation? Just do to AR15s and M1As what the government has been doing for years to Tommy Guns, M16s, M14s, Uzis, and other full-auto guns--regulate them into a virtual ban. Then, when people only own shotguns, might as well regulate them as well to close the loophole. Where is the public outrage over not being able to own an Uzi? Aren't M16's covered by the 2nd Amendment? Why don't .50 caliber sniper rifles have to be pried out of anyone's cold dead fingers?

Do we have a responsibility to fight? No we do not. Nor does anybody owe us any of our freedoms. The founding Fathers put their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor on the line; most people in history, and certainly most people today, would be happy to give up liberties for the continuation of their lifestyle. How many gun-owners, contemplating their careers, their wives, their children, would literally take the life of a local LEO over possession of an AR15?

anthonyca
01-19-2013, 2:22 PM
Nobody is coming to your door to get your guns. Sigh. :facepalm:

If you have a RAW, what happens when you die? It is just delayed confiscation or confiscation from your family.These people don't ever stop and they look to the future.

What just happened in New York? Turn in you legal standard capacity mags to the government in less that a year or sell out of state. What is that? Sounds like a form of confiscation to me. Imagine if they did the same for a painting.

jonnyt16
01-19-2013, 3:29 PM
Very few gun owners would resist. The few that do will be quickly killed off and labeled extremist. They will also be used the justify removing the 2A.
I disagree. I believe many will resist. And even if only 5% of gunowners resist, that is still millions.

But go ahead and give up your guns. I will do what the Constitution instructs me to do in the face of tyranny.

ARsiple
01-19-2013, 4:09 PM
Does that apply to all citizens of the US, or only "evil right wing gun nuts"?


In the event that the government eventually sees fit to initiate a program to confiscate firearms from the citizenry, then Obama should ask the left to lead by example. He should request that the following demographics/groups to relinquish their firearms -
*Gang bangers and other inner city criminals
*Union members, especially those with a violent history
*Members of the American Communist party
*Members of the Black Panthers
*Occupy Wall Street and other far left anarchist organizations, many of whom are armed
*Any other liberal who is an otherwise law abiding citizen, but owns firearms
*Most of all, confiscation of firearms from the security details of leftist politicians and celebrities, and confiscation of firearms from leftist politicians and celebrities themselves.

Those listed above, being "good citizens" and faithful followers of the president, will cheerfully submit and peacefully turn over their firearms, correct?

No?

In that event, let the president initiate a program to forcibly confiscate
weapons from his kindly but erring followers. Let the government surround cities like Oakland and Detroit with National Guard troops, and send in the ATF, FBI, DEA, etc. with assistance from state and local law enforcement. Let them do house to house searches, kicking in doors if necessary. Dispense with nonsensical technicalities like warrants, Miranda rights, due process - hey, this is a national emergency and an urgent public safety issue, by Gawd!! Undertaken in the name of safety, security and civility!!

Like that would happen!! For one, if such a thing happened, the already thick airwaves would be blue once again with phony screams of racism and wails about having civil rights violated - aided and abetted once again by the media misinformation mafia. Besides, we know who this is really aimed at, that being "evil, right wing gun nuts".

But, but - the spirits of the children murdered in Connecticut cry out for justice! Disarming the citizens of America is the just and proper way to show that we hear them - right? Yes, indeed, you could make a case for that - if those calling for firearms confiscation hadn't stood silently by while far left dictators in other countries murdered – repeat - MURDERED over 125,000,000 of their own citizens. In truth, many on the left were not silent – no, they openly supported these dictators, and defend them to this day, with lofty dismissals of the slaughter such as "mistakes made in the name of progress".

But hey, this is America !! We're civilized!! That would never happen here!!

It is said that the shock of a tragedy or other mind numbing event, such as the horrendous murders in Conn. a few weeks ago, brings out the best and worst in people, including their innermost feelings. Since the shooting in Conn. many on the “civilized” left have made public their true feelings by going on Twitter, Facebook and other electronic public forums and calling for the murder of NRA members and other responsible gun owners, "*********s", conservatives, Christians, etc. I for one am happy we got to see the true thoughts of those who claim to be civilized. Even though many of these posts have since been deleted by their authors, many of their fellow citizens have made sure these comments have been enshrined for posterity by the simple act of copying the screen or page and pasting them to their computer files. These calls for the murder of fellow citizens number in the thousands.

It is sad to see so many fellow citizens willing to be totally enslaved to the will of the government and its flawed agenda - not that many already aren't. Apparently they never read 1984 or Brave New World. Then again, maybe they look at those books as the height of human "evolution" and the perfect model for civilization.

__________________________________________________ ______________

While we are at it, let's use the same "logic" and scenario and project it to the 1st Amendment, m'kay .....

Let’s see if the government would apply the same type of limitations, restrictions, and sanctions to the 1st Amendment as they are trying to do to the 2nd. This can be applied by the same standard that they are using to restrict (and eventually repeal, I would guess) the 2nd Amendment. That would be condemning the many for the actions of the few, in the name of safety and civility. This should be aimed specifically at all groups and demographics who are known to continually invoke the 1st Amendment as their right to perpetrate myths, misinformation and resultant envy and collective greed, in spite of the fact that only a relatively few of them actually invoke the 1st as a cover for their mayhem and violence.

First off, because of violent actions by members of groups like Occupy Wall St. and fringe members of organized labor, the following legislative action should be taken in the name of safety -
• All who plan to protest for any cause or organization shall register with local police and will submit to being fingerprinted and photographed by local police and the FBI, at the prospective protesters expense.
• A $200 tax shall be levied upon each protester for every organization they belong to, or are affiliated with.
• A $200 tax shall be levied for each protest, rally or any other event issues oriented event attended by registered demonstrator.
• Protestors will not be allowed to carry signs over 10 millimeters.
• Protestors will not be allowed to raise their collective voices over 10 decibels. Noise level monitors and decibel meters will be placed at intervals of no more than 30 apart along the route, rally and/or scene of the protest, paid for by the protesting parties/organizations
• Right to protest under the 1st Amendment will not be grandfathered in, or otherwise conferred upon, the descendents of individual protesters upon their death.
• All protesters who are not registered and attend any protest, rally and any other issues oriented event are subject to immediate arrest.

Let’s apply the same standards to all who post on internet forums, write letters to the editor, or express an opinion anywhere in public that may offend someone else.

__________________________________________________ ______________

Sounds pretty ridiculous, right?

That is exactly what they are doing to the 2nd Amendment.

If you don't like it renounce your citizenship and move to a country more to your liking. Period.

:D:D:D:D:D 5 thumbs up!!!! i agree 1000%

BTW I've read both 1984 and Brave New World....it's eerie how its all actually happening.

LBDamned
01-19-2013, 4:19 PM
:D:D:D:D:D 5 thumbs up!!!! i agree 1000%

BTW I've read both 1984 and Brave New World....it's eerie how its all actually happening.
wasnt there a part in 1984 where a guy was sitting in the corner of his house (out of camera view) drinking a bottle of vodka?

It's been more than two decades since I've read it (maybe three)... but I seem to remember that detail - (obviously in addition to the entire Big Brother watching concept).

I'm gonna find the right corner to hide in, but with a bottle of Scotch in one hand and as many guns as I can fit under the other arm :D

Tarn_Helm
01-19-2013, 4:32 PM
I (SpaceMan) DID NOT WRITE THIS.

I believe Montezumaz, a fellow MarlinOwners(.)com member wrote it. It will be split up into 2 sections as its too long for one post.

"I feel a tremendous responsibility to write this article though I am a little apprehensive. . . .
...................continued..............

(Truncated by me.)

I have a responsibility to myself to not alert a tyrannical government bent on gun confiscation to any intention I might harbor to refuse to surrender them without resistance.

Posting such an intention on a publicly accessible internet forum seems just a tiny bit un-strategic, don't you think?
:facepalm:

IBTL

Rimjim
02-18-2013, 7:49 PM
I know this is an ugly thought, but if it ever came to forced confiscation the government doesn't have to fire a single shot or kick down a single door to win their victory. All they must do is garnish your paycheck, freeze your accounts, turn off your utilities, phone, cable, internet service and you'll get tired of hearing your wife and kids begging you to get rid of your guns so they can watch the academy awards or some vampire show on TV and live in a warm house. It all within the power of the federal/local government. I think this approach would work on 99% of the city dwellers and most of the country folk that own weapons and it requires no monetary expenditure by the government. Most will then march to the gun depository and hand over their weapons because they value their comfort (and their families) over the 2nd amendment. See? A bloodless victory and a society that is disarmed. All they have to do is sit at a keyboard and punch a few keys and it's over.

LBDamned
02-18-2013, 7:59 PM
^^^ it would never happen.

1) they are too inept to get it right - they would be shutting off the wrong residents multiple times resulting in massive law suits and extreme pannic.

2) everyone doesn't reside at the same address their entire life. So again, gov would shut off wrong address - or simply miss a boatload of gun owners at new addresses.

3) even most anti's wouldn't support such tactics.

Bassin&blastin
02-19-2013, 1:59 AM
Good thread . You can all doubt the possibilities of it all happening , but it's getting pretty crazy . It's only a conspiracy theory till it happens . And the threats have been made . Federal law enforcement ,dhs, and many local levels of l.e. have been training to disarm citizens for quite a while now . Hundreds of officers have leaked info and documents that say just that . The fed annoying purchase's , militarization of the police state , military armored vehicles for dhs , and some even say NATO on them . C'mon don't be nieve ! It's in the works , weather it happens tomorrow or years from now . The fed seems to be pushing the issue more and more with its constitutional over reach! Why not talk about it or fight it peacefully while we still can ??

kimber_ss
02-19-2013, 3:06 AM
There will never be a mass confiscation. There will be a smaller scale attempt to test the water.

It will be bloody and will fail because the result of the blood shed will highlight the family members who have been maimed/killed of which the court system will create injunctions to stop further confiscation violence.

Then the courts will uphold 2nd amendment rights. Acknowledging the futility of the confiscation and "the right to keep and bear arms".

GM4spd
02-19-2013, 3:14 AM
We are a nation of LAW,this I believe, and I believe it is my duty to obey
the law whether I agree or not. If a situation came where confiscation
of my guns/property were to happen,I would imagine that there would be NO
law as we know it---at this point,it's my duty to do something else! Pete

zonerdck
02-19-2013, 12:16 PM
There will be time to make all these decisions once they decide to confiscate if that is the case. So prepare now so that all you have to do is make choices if SHTF. There is no way that at the exact same moment they are going to confiscate all the guns. So use your time wisely and take the appropriate action. What you should anticipate however is a martial law scenario where any activity on the streets will be monitored and most common forms of communication will be turned off I.E. The Internet, Your phone service and so on. So prepare now and be ready to execute any plans you might have without communication and under a prying eye. Assume for the worst and you wont have to worry if something really bad does happen.

mt4design
02-19-2013, 1:07 PM
My barometer is this...

If this were 1775, and our brethren were standing on Lexington Green as the Red Coats marched - intent to make way toward Concord - then the shooting would already have commenced.

They would never stand for the kind of tyranny we already suffer under.

And, they didn't have the kind of guidance that came as a result of their actions in defiance of tyranny.

They gave us the best guidance they could to help us secure the freedom they fought and died to win.

So, if the United States Constitution and the rights enumerated and affirmed by the Bill of Rights, are not enough to guide your moral compass, how can what I write make any difference?

I will stand with Hamilton and Adams and Hancock and Jefferson and Madison and Washington and Franklin and John Parker, etc., etc., etc...

It comes down to this bit of wisdom found in our own Declaration of Independence...

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Humans define themselves through their suffering.

When the suffering becomes too great, the rebellion begins.

Typically, history shows that suffering becomes too costly when death becomes to easy a sentence for TPTB to wield upon their citizens.

5 died in Boston in 1770.

7 died on Lexington Green, in 1775.

I am unsure about how many died in between.

But, by the time the British made it to Concord Bridge after Lexington, the ranks of Minutemen and militia had swelled and the war was on.

"Don't fire unless fired upon. But if they want a war let it begin here." - Captain John Parker

Think now so you wont have to later. It isn't about us, it's about our children. Lose the skirt.

SpaceMan
02-19-2013, 1:12 PM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/la-now-live-california-seizing-guns-from-disqualified-owners-.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=649324

It's already happening

RJohnson
02-19-2013, 2:50 PM
Those who take up arms and will be put down and put six feet under or in prison.

skyscraper
02-19-2013, 3:11 PM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/la-now-live-california-seizing-guns-from-disqualified-owners-.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=649324

It's already happening

Taking them from prohibited persons.

Lx408gt
02-19-2013, 3:34 PM
Those who take up arms and will be put down and put six feet under or in prison.

Foolish, go and be a serf for the government. Let them take your feedoms. Have you EVER experienced life with someone telling you what to do ALL the time. NOT work, NOT recomending, FORCEING you to watch, eat and NEVER enjoy luxerious we have today.

whlgun
02-19-2013, 3:45 PM
Those who take up arms and will be put down and put six feet under or in prison.

Those who troll a gun forum with the anti gun agenda get banned.

tcrpe
02-19-2013, 3:47 PM
Jefferson said it was our duty.

tcrpe
02-19-2013, 3:49 PM
Guns should be taken from prohibited persons. From psychos and criminals.

That's just good herd management.

morfeeis
02-19-2013, 3:54 PM
I'll just say if they come, look for me on the news.....

thomashoward
02-19-2013, 3:55 PM
It's not going to happen. Stop asking the question.

my sig line says it

highbrass
02-19-2013, 3:56 PM
It's not going to happen. Stop asking the question.

Don't get this wrong. They are coming for your guns. That's the goal, and all they're working on is timing and tactics.

If Californians want help to come across those hills, Californians need to stand up and do the initial work.

highbrass
02-19-2013, 3:57 PM
Taking them from prohibited persons.

Everyone is a prohibited person, and everyone is a felon.

You can't let them get away with drawing the lines on freedom.

mt4design
02-19-2013, 4:03 PM
Everyone is a prohibited person, and everyone is a felon.

You can't let them get away with drawing the lines on freedom.

Absolutely.

Ex post facto.

They make illegal what was purchased legally and if you are in possession you are a criminal.

It is illegal for them to operate in that manner, but they are.

When TPTB operate outside the rule of law, then logically should we hold on to any hope or expectation that they will abide by the rule of law?

tcrpe
02-19-2013, 4:06 PM
^^^ it would never happen.
3) even most anti's wouldn't support such tactics.

Oh, yes, they will. The CHP beat the **** out of a little old lady in New Orleans, remember.

Her pistol has never been returned. They say they "lost" it.

Bruceisontarget
02-19-2013, 4:12 PM
Here's part of a speech from a founder... not a fake...

They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance, by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations; and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable²and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace²but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
Patrick Henry

skyscraper
02-19-2013, 5:41 PM
Oh, yes, they will. The CHP beat the **** out of a little old lady in New Orleans, remember.

Her pistol has never been returned. They say they "lost" it.

There's nothing like bringing up the same story over and over again as an argument for relevancy.

Bluesami
02-19-2013, 5:56 PM
Those who take up arms and will be put down and put six feet under or in prison.

What's your point?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

rsun
02-19-2013, 6:49 PM
It's not going to happen. Stop asking the question.

Not now it wont....... but after the brainwashing :sleeping: has happened in the schools long enough, your children will be happy to do "the right thing " and turn them over
And if you are in the way then they;ll turn you in to,...... in 2 generations this can happen, then it will be easy as well to repeal the 2A

Fight now and everywhere, teach your kids so you don't lose them ....and as responsible gun owner's we should all pledge to have at least 6....kids :King:

rsun
02-19-2013, 6:56 PM
[QUOTE=spetsnaz;10256361]if they come for your guns you've already failed. stop them before it gets to that point. do research on the candidates before you vote for them[/Q

Exactly!!!!!
But don't forget we need the kids behind us, get as many involved in this as you can, recruit , recruit, recruit:oji: