View Full Version : 25 and 3/4", longer with a muzzle break...OK?

08-26-2007, 10:27 PM
At theoretical question for the internet lawyers here....

Barrels less than 16" need a permanently attached device by fusion welding or such to be over 16"

.....so a boat load of Chinese AKs just missed the CLINTON's GANG deadline so were converted to MAK's, they were folding stock so that was removed and a BUSH-HOLE STOCK Installed.

One or more were converted back to folding stock and should have been legal as is....

Federal ban ends and all....

And my neighbors dog got one....Hypothetical question and all....;)

And put in a FCG that is USA stamped, but darn it, it is only 25 and 3/4' with that welded on thing over the threads, so it is cutoff and an AK74 type screwed on.....

so now it is over 25 & 3/4".......but if you google this you will find two folks who were prosecuted for having a MAK with a 25 & 3/4" rifle,......and she said if you only were 1/4" more longer to penetrate me I would be satisfied...

So for a barrel it needs to be fusion bonded to be permanently over 16"

And these things were imported to be sold as folding stocks...

And so is a easily removed AK - 74 device legal enough, or will some stupid copper say it is to easily removable and not fusion bonded thus does not count for the 26 inch rule......The world wonders, and I wonder...

It seems stupid that you could be persecuted, yes not prosecuted, for having a to short by 1/4" rifle after they take things off of it.....but someone recently warned the neighbors dog about this at the range the other day...

Now before you pessimist jump in, some of these events were stated out of order, and yes this dog had his paw print taken and paid $25 in doggie biscuits to the DOJ....

So is a threaded on device sufficient for an at least 26" rule or is a fusion welded thing needed......????

The world wonders,....I wonder,.....the neighbor's dog wonders????

LAK Supply
08-27-2007, 12:42 AM
When length requirements are being adhered to, the device that is attached to meet sufficient length must be permanently attached. If you can unscrew your brake and be shorter than the minimum length you're asking for problems.

A friend of mine does a lot of barrel work.... one of the things he does is cut Mini barrels down to 13 5/8" to replicate the AC-556 barrel pressures. All of these 5" brakes are pinned and TIG welded to comply. A covered (welded or epoxied) pin would work; so would silver solder. The solder would be the way to go if you ever want to be able to easily change the brake out for another one..... you could heat the barrel up and remove the solder.

I would recommend threading the brake on and securing it with a set-screw that seats into a small dimple. Once the set screw is secure tack weld over the top of it or hit it with marine epoxy. Both a weld and epoxy can be ground down if you ever want to swap your brake for another.... otherwise there is zero chance of your part coming off for anyone who might want to attempt to remove it.

08-27-2007, 6:41 AM
I would recommend threading the brake on and securing it with a set-screw that seats into a small dimple. Once the set screw is secure tack weld over the top of it or hit it with marine epoxy. Both a weld and epoxy can be ground down if you ever want to swap your brake for another.... otherwise there is zero chance of your part coming off for anyone who might want to attempt to remove it.

ATF requires muzzle devices be 'permanently' attached. Methods they agree are 'permanent' are blind pins or welding or soldering using a material that melts at a minimum of 1100 deg. F (silver solder or welding). Silver solder is easier than welding.


08-27-2007, 8:57 AM
I believe to be CA legal it must be 30". Federal is 26". You can be 26" but still be an AW in CA if I remember correctly.

08-30-2007, 10:10 PM
Thanks for the replies.

So to summarize:

Firearm is in the original condition as imported from China but got caught in the Clinton Ban and had that Butt hole stock installed over the folding stock so that it was there but could not be operated and was in the closed position. So the possibility is that this was short a tad bit and maybe not legal.

As I have only one AK folder I do not have anything to measure against other folders to see if the barrels were 3/8" longer as that would be the only way to make it longer and folding stock AK's were imported and sold legally from Norinco for quite some time.

The barrel length appears to be the same at 16.5+" and is the same as my Maadi with the thinner European style barrel and my Polytech milled receiver-both fixed stocks. As I stated I have read of two arrests and conviction for a MAK 90/7.62 folding stock rifle that was 25 & 3/4" long but could not tell if they had a threaded muzzle device that made it longer and was disregarded or had the short slant muzzle device but was certain by description they were those folding stock AK's converted to butt hole stock then converted back.

The one thread I read where the poster stated he did not understand either and that they all came that way as far as he knew (the other that came up on google was actual legal mumbo jumbo stuff about court action against somebody). I can't comprehend how this is possible in that it appears these were sold legally (or not) but apparently slightly less than 26 inches.

This firearm along with all those that my neighbors dog owns that fall under the assault weapon provision were all lawfully registered in 1989 and/or 2000 and he had his paw prints taken for the 2000 registration process so the 30 inch rule does not apply. (as they say at the beginning of every episode of dragnet, the names have been changed to protect the innocent from overzealous anti-gun Islamic neo fascist sometimes communist fanatical law enforcement agents, especially that infamous anti-gun stalker known as iggy who is even more famous to the firearms enthusiast than the other California urban legend known as Bigfoot)

Seems you folks feel that to comply with the provision that the attached muzzle device needs to be permanently attached to meet the 26" requirement like is accepted by all as a requirement for devices attached to short barrels to make them acceptable for LE in meeting the 16" barrel length.

Many parts were changed to US parts to make compliant.

Existing welded on threaded piece of thin wall pipe barely covered the threads and was like having no muzzle brake so when stock was folded weapon was only 25 & 1/4" long. This also meant that in the as sold condition by just removing the butt hole stock the weapon was not over 26" in length and the stock was easily removed with a screw driver similar to using a bullet to depress the detente to remove the muzzle brake and so why is a removable stock OK but a removable muzzle brake not OK.

Since I don't have allot intimate experience with other folding stock AK's and since it is a standard/generic design for receiver and barrels I was wondering what was done to legally import folding stock AK's since apparently by just removing or even putting on a short slant muzzle brake would less than 26". Is there a possibility that folding stock AK's had a 17.5" instead of a 16.5" barrel or that the muzzle device was permanently attached. Funny that I don't ever remember such offered or stated on these internet sites

None the less it looks like I will take this to work and put two tack welds on it. Don't mind this on the brake but don't like doing that to the front site. Yes it is metal and not wood so it is easy enough to weld build up and machine/and or file to return to pristine condition.

Hey everyone thanks for reading and considering responding, and most of all to those that posted and expressed their opinion, knowledge, or expertise in this subject matter.:jump: