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FireSuperiorityComplex
01-07-2013, 4:29 AM
I finally thought I was going to fulfill my moral imperative as an American and own a Firearm.

I find out I got denied by the CALDOJ from my gun shop owner and he has no idea why.

I call the DOJ and they say they have no idea why and the people who do know are so busy that until the middle of the month or so, they can't help me.

I finally receive a letter that reads I was denied because of Under California Welfare & Institutions Code 8103.

"person who has been adjudicated by a court or any state to be a danger to others as a result of a mental disorder or mental illness, or who has been adjudicated to be a mentally disordered sex offender"

Okay....

That's weird. I don't ever going to Court for anything other then for my job when I was a legal assistant or when I had to pay a traffic ticket.

There are some other possibilities, assuming I'm not so crazy that I completely wiped out the experience out of my mind.

I'm 21 now, but when I was 17 my father found what he believed was a "Suicide note". My version of it? It was a note written in the style of a letter to the people of this world after I am gone. It was about as arrogant as the rest of this post will probably sound. "The world has lost its greatest mind" etc....

He called the Police because my Dad is an idiot and the Police officers happened to agree with him. The cop came to my place of work, and told my Dad if he didn't take me to the hospital, they would. So my dad drove me to the hospital and the Social Worker did what I believe is called a "5150". Despite my protests that I was being held against my will, and that I was not crazy, and that I didn't want to kill myself, I was sent to some contracted mental health facility.

Basically I was wheeled off to the crazy house with a bunch of drug addicts and fools who are so incompetent, that they can't even kill themselves.

I talked to a shrink there, I talked to him calmly until I noticed in his folder he had some sort of contract where I would purportedly sign away that I would not purchase a firearm.

I asked him about this and very sternly informed him that I would not sign anything of the sort. That I was a law abiding citizen and I could own a firearm if I damn well pleased.

He asked me why I would need a firearm and of course I told him that it was my Constitutional right to do so. He awkwardly changed the subject after a monologue about the importance of the right to bear arms.

Anyway, he was so cautious he said "Yeah, I don't want to release you because I'm on the fence on this, just wait until your judicial hearing."

Then I got my hearing in front of a judicial officer. Presumably a judge or something. I had an advocate who worked for the hospital. Which I immediately stated was a conflict of interest, but was told if I wanted my own advocate it would delay the hearing several days, so I reluctantly agreed because I was already being held prisoner for days, being fed drugs that made me feel like I was dying.

Anyway, the "prosecutor" lied during the hearing, made up things that were not even in the "suicide note", and I was given no opportunity to speak for myself.

My advocate presented my case after her, and after that the Judicial Officer said I no longer had to be held there and I was to be released.

This nightmare was over.

Or so I thought? When were my rights rescinded? Where was my trial among my peers? Why was I not notified about this? Has Habeas Corpus been suspended without me knowing it? As far as I know...a 5150 can be declared on anyone by the Police or Medial field. So...whats stopping the Police from declaring a 5150 on anyone they want. Anyone they think is "dangerous".

the86d
01-07-2013, 4:41 AM
...When were my rights rescinded? Where was my trial among my peers? Why was I not notified about this? Has Habeas Corpus been suspended without me knowing it? As far as I know...a 5150 can be declared on anyone by the Police or Medial field. So...whats stopping the Police from declaring a 5150 on anyone they want. Anyone they think is "dangerous".

Yup, I read this is happening quite a lot these days...

I read that one of the questions that the VA docs are asking is something like "Do you own any firearms?"

harmoniums
01-07-2013, 6:58 AM
So you wrote a suicide note, got put on an involuntary hold and are now prohibited by the state of CA from owning a firearm?
I assume you could still buy one if you became a resident of another state, 5150 is a CA only thing.
Beyond moving, it sounds like you need a lawyer.

Scott Connors
01-07-2013, 7:06 AM
So you wrote a suicide note, got put on an involuntary hold and are now prohibited by the state of CA from owning a firearm?
I assume you could still buy one if you became a resident of another state, 5150 is a CA only thing.
Beyond moving, it sounds like you need a lawyer.

Unfortunately, this would be a life time disqualification under federal law, because the OP was adjudicated before a hearing officer. However, something stinks because he was released at the end of the hearing. Did the OP get a copy of the decision? He needs to contact the facility where he was held and request copies of his records, specifically the legal portion.

Decoligny
01-07-2013, 8:10 AM
Unfortunately, this would be a life time disqualification under federal law, because the OP was adjudicated before a hearing officer. However, something stinks because he was released at the end of the hearing. Did the OP get a copy of the decision? He needs to contact the facility where he was held and request copies of his records, specifically the legal portion.

Depends upon how long ago the 5150 involuntary hold occurred.

A 5150 INVOLUNTARY hold initiates an automatic 5 year prohibition in CA.

Based on what the OP stated it doesn't look like he was adjudicated as mentally incompetent, so the Federal lifetime ban would not apply.

GrizzlyGuy
01-07-2013, 9:01 AM
My advocate presented my case after her, and after that the Judicial Officer said I no longer had to be held there and I was to be released.

This nightmare was over.


OP, what I bolded above is super-duper important to your situation. You or your parents should have received some type of form or other documentation that states the outcome of that hearing. You need to find that documentation, or if you can't, contact the hospital and see if they can get you a copy. Here is the deal:

If you did indeed prevail at what the law (http://law.onecle.com/california/welfare/5256.html) calls a "certification hearing" (meaning you won and the judicial guy said you were to be released from the hold) you have a 5-year firearms prohibition beginning on the date that you entered the hospital. Once the 5 years is up, your firearm rights will be fully restored. There are no implications under federal law.

However, if you actually did not prevail at the certification hearing and perhaps are remembering things incorrectly, you would be subject to a lifetime firearms prohibition under federal law, and there is no means at all to appeal it. By law, there would be documentation of this as described here (http://law.onecle.com/california/welfare/5256.7.html):

The person certified shall be given oral notification of
the decision at the conclusion of the certification review hearing.
As soon thereafter as is practicable, the attorney or advocate for
the person certified and the director of the facility where the
person is receiving treatment shall be provided with a written
notification of the decision, which shall include a statement of the
evidence relied upon and the reasons for the decision.

So... do your best to confirm exactly what happened at that point. If you end up speaking to someone at the hospital, tell them that you are trying to determine whether you were or were not "certified for intensive treatment" and would like to receive a copy of the document that specifies the outcome of your certification hearing.

FYI, it may help you to read Welfare and Institutions Code Section 5250 (http://law.onecle.com/california/welfare/5250.html) and continue reading at least through 5258 (http://law.onecle.com/california/welfare/5258.html) as those sections describe the hearing process that you went through.

Armed24-7
01-07-2013, 10:04 AM
As far as I know...a 5150 can be declared on anyone by the Police or Medial field. So...whats stopping the Police from declaring a 5150 on anyone they want. Anyone they think is "dangerous".

Actually, you are misunderstanding 5150 WIC. 5150 is only for holding you for 72 hours for evaluation and observation. This evaluation period can only be done at a hospital with a psych unit or at a psychiatric hospital. At the end of that observation period, the psychiatrist handling your case can hold you longer for further evaluation under 5250 WIC. If they believe you are definitely a danger to yourself or others, they can take further actions. These actions can sometimes involved the courts, but not always.

When a police officer 5150's someone, he is not declaring that you are a danger to yourself or others. He does not have the authority, nor training to do that. The officer is simply stating that there is enough evidence or reasonable cause to believe you are a danger to yourself or others and can order the 72 hour hold, pending evaluation by mental health professionals.

Your firearms restriction was probably under 8103(g)(1) WIC which states you cannot buy or possess a firearm for 5 years, but I would verify that if I were you. Also, look up 8103(I) WIC that states if you possess a firearm, you could be charged with a crime and go to jail. Do your homework so you don't get into any hot water.

I have seen many people get released from a 5150 hold only after a day or two of evaluation, with no further action taken. Most people get released from a 5150 hold with no further action taken. Only a small percentage of people go through the process that you went through.

Unfortunately, more often than not, people who are truly mentally ill and are a danger to themselves and others are let go without proper treatment. People who are truly a danger to others should never be allowed to walk the streets whether it's due to mental illness or just plain savagery.

Scott Connors
01-07-2013, 10:28 AM
[snippage]Your firearms restriction was probably under 8103(g)(1) WIC which states you cannot buy or possess a firearm for 5 years, but I would verify that if I were you. Also, look up 8103(I) WIC that states if you possess a firearm, you could be charged with a crime and go to jail. Do your homework so you don't get into any hot water.

I have seen many people get released from a 5150 hold only after a day or two of evaluation, with no further action taken. Most people get released from a 5150 hold with no further action taken. Only a small percentage of people go through the process that you went through.

[snippage]

If the disqualification is the five year one for being on a 72hour hold, the OP's firearm rights may be restored upon reapplication to the court. The holding facility is supposed to provide this information on discharge. I know that we did at the PHF where I worked.

lilro
01-07-2013, 10:57 AM
Sounds like OP got the David Sarti treatment. I fear this happening more and more often.