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View Full Version : Can you buy a legal AR lower in CA?


gspam1
08-25-2007, 7:54 PM
Based on continued reading here, I could bring my AR uppers to CA from AZ. My lower receivers are not on the DOJ list however, they have evil features like detachable magazines and collapsible stocks so I guess they stay in AZ.

Is there such a thing as a CA legal lower I could buy to mate with my uppers? Also, is it true I don't need to register my uppers as AWs?

Thanks!

hoffmang
08-25-2007, 8:14 PM
Since your lowers are not listed you have two choices. Either buy a magazine fixing kit like the Bullet Button which will allow you to use non detachable 10 round magazines and therefor keep the evil features or remove the evil features including the pistol grip and use a Monsterman Grip or a U-15.

You do not need to register (and can not) any uppers.

-Gene

metalhead357
08-25-2007, 8:14 PM
Welcome.

You've got LOTS of reading in your future. And Search IS thy friend;)

But NO, dont have to register uppers.

NOTHING gets registered anymore; but cant have anything on the list that aint already been registered.

If you have an OFF list then ya' can build it up one of several ways....just not the "good ways"....

I'll let the others 'splain it.

Party on.....But mannnnnnnnnnn are you gonna miss AZ........;)

LAK Supply
08-25-2007, 8:51 PM
Somebody offer you a $1M/yr job or something? That's about the only thing that would keep me here..... and then only for a few more years. Why do you want to live in CA? :confused:

Based on continued reading here, I could bring my AR uppers to CA from AZ. My lower receivers are not on the DOJ list however, they have evil features like detachable magazines and collapsible stocks so I guess they stay in AZ.

Is there such a thing as a CA legal lower I could buy to mate with my uppers? Also, is it true I don't need to register my uppers as AWs?

Thanks!

bwiese
08-25-2007, 11:04 PM
Somebody offer you a $1M/yr job or something? That's about the only thing that would keep me here..... and then only for a few more years. Why do you want to live in CA? :confused:

Prob a better job, better chance of future jobs, better schools (in certain areas). Family ties also play in the matter.

There's not much in Indiana or Montana, etc. for people like me.

gspam1
08-26-2007, 9:48 PM
Somebody offer you a $1M/yr job or something? That's about the only thing that would keep me here..... and then only for a few more years. Why do you want to live in CA? :confused:

I don't, I left 10 years ago for a job and grew to like AZ much better. I don't dislike CA, I grew up there, but I never planned to go back. Moving back for a few years due to a family situation. Then adios.

gspam1
08-26-2007, 9:50 PM
Thanks hoffmang and metalhead357!

Cato
08-27-2007, 1:37 AM
Somebody offer you a $1M/yr job or something? That's about the only thing that would keep me here..... and then only for a few more years. Why do you want to live in CA? :confused:

Because this is MY state!

socalguns
08-27-2007, 6:17 AM
Exactly, WTH kind of question is "Why do you want to live at home?"

glockman19
08-27-2007, 7:27 AM
gspam1,
Welcome.

The answer to your question is YES yo just need to do some simple, reversable modifications. either pin a 10 round mag in with a prince 50 or otherkit to render the magazine non-detachible or replace the pistol grip with a monsterman grip. because you can NOT bring hi cap mags into thestate your best option IMHO is to fix a mag.

gspam1
08-28-2007, 6:01 PM
Thank you Glockman19!

mcubed4130
08-28-2007, 6:50 PM
gspam1,
Welcome.

The answer to your question is YES yo just need to do some simple, reversable modifications. either pin a 10 round mag in with a prince 50 or otherkit to render the magazine non-detachible or replace the pistol grip with a monsterman grip. because you can NOT bring hi cap mags into thestate your best option IMHO is to fix a mag.

I don't, I left 10 years ago for a job and grew to like AZ much better. I don't dislike CA, I grew up there, but I never planned to go back. Moving back for a few years due to a family situation. Then adios.

Gspam1, since you used to live here 10 years ago, it should be noted, it would be legal for you to bring any magazines of any size, that you legally purchased when you were a resident of California (since that would have been before the 2000 - ban on magazines that have a capacity of over 10 rounds).

However, you can only use a detachable magazine system, on rifles that have no "features"; collapsible M4 style stock on the lower, pistol grip on the lower, flash-hider on the upper, etc... But the option for doing this type of build would be. Used a fixed length stock, remove your flash-hider replace with a compensator (or thread protector), replace pistol grip with a Monsterman grip, the picture is worth the thousand words on this one:
http://www.monstermangrip.com/

Now, if you did not own any AR magazines from the time you lived in California (before 2000), then you have no magazines over 10 rounds that you could legally bring into CA anyway... So in that case, just bring in your 10 round magazines (or buy a few in CA) and then I would also suggest you do the 20 min or so, modification to your AR lower, and remove the magazine release button, and install a "bullet button".

http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=265

When you leave CA, remove the "bullet button" and reinstall the normal mag release.

-M3

balisong
08-29-2007, 6:43 AM
I am just planning to start building my first AR. I wanted to start with a 6.8mm. I have a few choices. Buy one of those fixed Mag stripped lowers or buy the regular lowers with a bullet button. I could not find 6.8 fixed mag lowers.

If I go with the regular lowers with a bullet button, can I load the magazine from the top of the gun ( with out removing the magazine)? I know I can simply use a bullet to release the magazine and load but, as to my readings, I have to remove the evil features first before releasing the Magazine.:confused:

Please point me toward a better solution?

Thanks

mcubed4130
08-29-2007, 7:31 AM
I am just planning to start building my first AR. I wanted to start with a 6.8mm. I have a few choices. Buy one of those fixed Mag stripped lowers or buy the regular lowers with a bullet button. I could not find 6.8 fixed mag lowers.

If I go with the regular lowers with a bullet button, can I load the magazine from the top of the gun ( with out removing the magazine)? I know I can simply use a bullet to release the magazine and load but, as to my readings, I have to remove the evil features first before releasing the Magazine.:confused:

Please point me toward a better solution?

Thanks

Well, looks like I'll be the first to say, welcome to Calguns!

Details of your questions can read here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=56818

But in short, you are confusing 2 different products:

1. The "Prince 50 Mag Lock" requires that you top-load, as the method to install and remove mags, with this system (unscrewing the allen screw) - once you release the mag, means the firearm now "accepts detachable mags". Which is illegal, if you have features on your rifle. Therefore you *must* top load, unless you want to remove all your features first! :(

2. The "Bullet Button" allows standard "attachment of magazines" but prevents anyone from "detaching a magazine" - therefore when you use a bullet tip or other type of tool, to insert into the button, to release the magazine, after you remove the magazine, your rifle, still does NOT accept detachable mags. Therefore everything stays legal, when you drop your magazine. :D

As for your 6.8 questions, off the top of my head, I recall 6.8 being the same size as the normal 5.56/223 lowers, the only difference on the lower, is whatever they print on the side; however magazines and uppers are different. Do some searching in the Rifleman's Forum.

Welcome aboard!

-M3

balisong
08-29-2007, 10:07 AM
Well, looks like I'll be the first to say, welcome to Calguns!

Details of your questions can read here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=56818

But in short, you are confusing 2 different products:

1. The "Prince 50 Mag Lock" requires that you top-load, as the method to install and remove mags, with this system (unscrewing the allen screw) - once you release the mag, means the firearm now "accepts detachable mags". Which is illegal, if you have features on your rifle. Therefore you *must* top load, unless you want to remove all your features first! :(

2. The "Bullet Button" allows standard "attachment of magazines" but prevents anyone from "detaching a magazine" - therefore when you use a bullet tip or other type of tool, to insert into the button, to release the magazine, after you remove the magazine, your rifle, still does NOT accept detachable mags. Therefore everything stays legal, when you drop your magazine. :D

As for your 6.8 questions, off the top of my head, I recall 6.8 being the same size as the normal 5.56/223 lowers, the only difference on the lower, is whatever they print on the side; however magazines and uppers are different. Do some searching in the Rifleman's Forum.

Welcome aboard!

-M3


Thank you very much. This is great stuff. If I go with #2:D, and would like to be cautious inside the range, would I still be able to load the "attachable magazine" from the top of the gun?

Thanks for pointing me to the right link.

mcubed4130
08-29-2007, 10:18 AM
:) Legally speaking, if you want to load your "fixed" mag rifle, from the top. Or you want to use your non-detachable mag system, that would be your choice.

-M3

artherd
08-29-2007, 10:52 AM
Somebody offer you a $1M/yr job or something? That's about the only thing that would keep me here..... and then only for a few more years. Why do you want to live in CA? :confused:

When you guys get the Pacific Ocean, and the 5th largest economy in the world, all up in Airizona (and get rid of Phoneix, the poverty, and the desert) let me know :)

Untill then, I'm a California boy very much by choice.

balisong
08-29-2007, 11:14 AM
:) Legally speaking, if you want to load your "fixed" mag rifle, from the top. Or you want to use your non-detachable mag system, that would be your choice.

-M3

Hehehe. I guess this is like preparing your taxes. Would you like to include a "red flag" item on your tax return and risk an audit or be gone with the risk but not take the deduction? I guess the answer depends on the consequences of an audit.

I like the second option. And have the freedom to change mags rapidly in times when you need them. :iggy:. I would be more comfortable though,in the range, if this option also allows me to feed from the top---- just in case I have to do this in front of a suspicious public.

This is my first AR project and I guess the question is mechanical in nature. :confused:

Thanks again.

gspam1
08-29-2007, 11:20 AM
M3:

Thank you! I've looked at the monstergrip verus the bullet button choices now and I prefer the bullet button. I have a number of OLLs I could install the bullet button on.

When I purchased high cap magazines in CA years ago, I didn't have the foresight to save my receipts. How could I possibly prove when I purchased them? I have a ton of high cap Glock magazines too. I don't wish to spend $300,000 in legal bills after being arrested for having a high cap magazine, even if I eventually win. I assumed I'd have to leave all those behind. What's the burden of proof for these?

Thanks!

mcubed4130
08-29-2007, 11:48 AM
Hehehe. I guess this is like preparing your taxes. Would you like to include a "red flag" item on your tax return and risk an audit or be gone with the risk but not take the deduction? I guess the answer depends on the consequences of an audit.

Well in CA, the red flag item is - you own a gun at all - this immediately puts you into the war. Owning an OLL in CA, this puts you into the front lines of the war. Owning an OLL - fixed mag - with "evil" features, means you are the forward scout of the operation.

I like the second option. And have the freedom to change mags rapidly in times when you need them. :iggy:. I would be more comfortable though,in the range, if this option also allows me to feed from the top---- just in case I have to do this in front of a suspicious public.

This is my first AR project and I guess the question is mechanical in nature. :confused:

Thanks again.

BTW, welcome to Calguns, although this is your 3rd post, but still close enough. Have fun with your build, do some searching in the Riflemans Forum for more details on your mechanical concerns. :)

-M3

balisong
08-29-2007, 12:00 PM
Well in CA, the red flag item is - you own a gun at all - this immediately puts you into the war. Owning an OLL in CA, this puts you into the front lines of the war. Owning an OLL - fixed mag - with "evil" features, means you are the forward scout of the operation.



BTW, welcome to Calguns, although this is your 3rd post, but still close enough. Have fun with your build, do some searching in the Riflemans Forum for more details on your mechanical concerns. :)

-M3

M3,

Somehow, I knew you would say that!:D

I will keep on searching. Thanks.

mcubed4130
08-29-2007, 12:02 PM
M3:

Thank you! I've looked at the monstergrip verus the bullet button choices now and I prefer the bullet button. I have a number of OLLs I could install the bullet button on.

Most people around here, just build up 2 lowers, 1 with a MMG (Monster Man Grip) http://www.monstermangrip.com/ or a U-15 http://www.californiarifles.com/ for featureless builds, and 1 with a bullet button, for the truly evil featured build. :D


When I purchased high cap magazines in CA years ago, I didn't have the foresight to save my receipts. How could I possibly prove when I purchased them? I have a ton of high cap Glock magazines too. I don't wish to spend $300,000 in legal bills after being arrested for having a high cap magazine, even if I eventually win. I assumed I'd have to leave all those behind. What's the burden of proof for these?

Thanks!

This is a strange - read STRANGE - law. Possession, or even purchase within the state of CA, is not illegal. Selling within the state and Importing into the state are.

As for the burden of proof. That is on the side of the government, to try and show that you did in fact "import" from outside of CA the normal capacity (hi-cap) mags you have. If they can't do that, there is no case.

For instance, not long ago, there were undercover CA DOJ agents, at the Reno, NV gun show... they watched several people from CA - buy mags of 11+ capacity, the agents then followed them back - and when they crossed the stateline into CA. *POP* - felony charge of importing hi-cap mags.

As for legally purchased and owned mags of any capacity, you had before the 2000 ban. Use them, they are yours to enjoy, just don't try SELLING (sell, give, etc) them, to anyone except a FFL01 dealer. Or that's a felony in CA as well.

BTW, if you don't want to be involved in any multiple ten or hundreds of thousands of dollar lawsuits. And you want to live in CA... I'd suggest just selling ALL you firearms. Course, then you need to figure out what to do if you ever have to defend yourself in your home, and everywhere else, except a court of law. :)

On the other hand, if you just want to be prepared for what happens if you end up in court... Trutanich Michel, LLP - the lawyer at the top of this page, is who you write down the # for, in the event anything - happens. There are plenty of threads, showing exactly how useful this law firm is.

-M3

gspam1
08-29-2007, 2:35 PM
BTW, if you don't want to be involved in any multiple ten or hundreds of thousands of dollar lawsuits. And you want to live in CA... I'd suggest just selling ALL you firearms. Course, then you need to figure out what to do if you ever have to defend yourself in your home, and everywhere else, except a court of law. :)
-M3

Actually, that is probably the smartest course of action but since that is what the libs want, I refuse to concede so easily.:43:

Thanks for the attorney referral. I carry the NRA's self defense insurance and keep a local attorney's card handy who deals with 2nd Amendment defense. Nice to see there is a firm in CA too.

mcubed4130
08-29-2007, 2:59 PM
Actually, that is probably the smartest course of action but since that is what the libs want, I refuse to concede so easily.:43:

Great to hear! Welcome to the ranks.

Thanks for the attorney referral. I carry the NRA's self defense insurance and keep a local attorney's card handy who deals with 2nd Amendment defense. Nice to see there is a firm in CA too.

Trutanich Michel, LLP - are the NRA California counsel.

-M3