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CessnaDriver
01-05-2013, 11:08 AM
We're about to be bum rushed.


White House Plans To Overwhelm NRA With Rapid Victory

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/01/white-house-nra-gun-victory.php?ref=fpa

Cypriss32
01-05-2013, 11:13 AM
Time to get geared up people....... This isn't a JOKE anymore. Most ARE right there ISNT a ban yet. But there WILL be a serious push for SOME KIND of legislation to be pushed threw.

rgraham
01-05-2013, 11:14 AM
I guess we are now a country run by polls.
He who makes the polls has the power.

Since the 2nd amendment was meant to control an overreaching, tyrannical government, shouldn't we be very wary of any in our government trying to take away those rights? They want them for a reason, and it has nothing to do with keeping people safe.

tcrpe
01-05-2013, 11:18 AM
Time to get geared up people....... This isn't a JOKE anymore. Most ARE right there ISNT a ban yet. But there WILL be a serious push for SOME KIND of legislation to be pushed threw.

More than legislation will go into to this tsunami of gun control. Include a full spread of regulations and EOs.

Full Clip
01-05-2013, 11:23 AM
Blitzkreig, eh? Well that seems right for them.

speedrrracer
01-05-2013, 11:53 AM
As long as the Reeps in the House do their jobs, all this goes away (except for those of us in CA, who will get raped no matter what)

Write your Reps early and often, let them know how you feel!

Eldraque
01-05-2013, 11:57 AM
People who say "Extended ammunition clips" dont deserve to take our rights away...give me a break..

whats the link for the thread to send letters to our reps?

ScottB
01-05-2013, 12:06 PM
As long as the Reeps in the House do their jobs, all this goes away (except for those of us in CA, who will get raped no matter what)

Write your Reps early and often, let them know how you feel!

and the president, VP and heads of the RNC and DNC.

They may be the opposition, but given a sufficient volume of opposing letters, they may rethink how hard they want to push and how much electoral blowback will they be subjected to

ClarenceBoddicker
01-05-2013, 12:19 PM
The NRA won't rigorously oppose a total "high capacity" magazine ban. They will accept a Federal registration & taxation scheme for all semi-auto firearms aka: NFA 2. They will accept 100% background checks for all firearms sales aka: Brady 3. They will probably accept banning all semi-auto firearms made from imported parts like AKs aka: GCA 2.

The only important questions is which House RINOs will be bribed to vote against the 2A, and what will those earmark & cushy job post Congress "service" bribes be.

bulgron
01-05-2013, 12:21 PM
The NRA won't rigorously oppose a total "high capacity" magazine ban. They will accept a Federal registration & taxation scheme for all semi-auto firearms aka: NFA 2. They will accept 100% background checks for all firearms sales aka: Brady 3. They will probably accept banning all semi-auto firearms made from imported parts like AKs aka: GCA 2.

The only important questions is which House RINOs will be bribed to vote against the 2A, and what will those earmark & cushy job post Congress "service" bribes be.

FUD.

Moonshine
01-05-2013, 12:29 PM
I've always said and will continue to say that Feds will ban greater than ten round mags. Te very digestible even to pro gun senators and house reps who will reject an AWB.

There's just no way were getting out of this with no consequences.

donw
01-05-2013, 12:30 PM
typical obama/dem tactics...try to overwhelm the public with rhetoric and horsefeathers.

donw
01-05-2013, 12:32 PM
I've always said and will continue to say that Feds will ban greater than ten round mags. Te very digestible even to pro gun senators and house reps who will reject an AWB.

There's just no way were getting out of this with no consequences.

^^^^+1

i believe this will be the very least we can expect...

tcrpe
01-05-2013, 12:35 PM
typical obama/dem tactics...try to overwhelm the public with rhetoric and horsefeathers.

It worked for ObamaCare.

frankm
01-05-2013, 12:43 PM
I've always said and will continue to say that Feds will ban greater than ten round mags. Te very digestible even to pro gun senators and house reps who will reject an AWB.

There's just no way were getting out of this with no consequences.

I might be okay with this if the govies recognized the right to militia arms and then debated what is necessary for a militia rifle so that citizens have the ability to rise up. I think they'd decide on 20 rounds. But of course, a conversation like this is never gonna happen. They don't want to recognize a right of the general militia.

Scott Connors
01-05-2013, 12:51 PM
The NRA won't rigorously oppose a total "high capacity" magazine ban. They will accept a Federal registration & taxation scheme for all semi-auto firearms aka: NFA 2. They will accept 100% background checks for all firearms sales aka: Brady 3. They will probably accept banning all semi-auto firearms made from imported parts like AKs aka: GCA 2.

The only important questions is which House RINOs will be bribed to vote against the 2A, and what will those earmark & cushy job post Congress "service" bribes be.

http://www.blazingsaddlesmtb.co.uk/images/photoalbum/album_10/kellyoddball_t2.jpg

johnny1290
01-05-2013, 12:59 PM
It is what it is.

I donate often and to 3 or 4 groups.

Ask the Indians if it was a good idea to give up their guns.

lilro
01-05-2013, 1:16 PM
I think we are losing the war, fellas. What we're doing is clearly not working.


You take all of the assault weapons you want, and when they roll down the street with a tank and point it at your house, you can start shooting them, just before they blow you up. You can't compete against the might of the government, nor should you be allowed to try. It is OUR government, after all.

Sierra57
01-05-2013, 1:20 PM
The first paragraph says it all. Yup, gotta strike while the misinformed hysteria campaign is in full swing and phony outrage is at its peak. That's their M.O. :facepalm:

RileyBean
01-05-2013, 1:20 PM
I think we are losing the war, fellas. What we're doing is clearly not working.

Yep. Too divided with each only out for themselves. It may be too far gone (certainly in CA).

Damn True
01-05-2013, 1:25 PM
As long as the Reeps in the House do their jobs, all this goes away (except for those of us in CA, who will get raped no matter what)

Write your Reps early and often, let them know how you feel!

You mean the ones that just voted for $3.6T in additional debt, and $41 in tax increases for every $1 in spending cuts?

Sierra57
01-05-2013, 1:25 PM
The only important questions is which House RINOs will be bribed to vote against the 2A, and what will those earmark & cushy job post Congress "service" bribes be.
Bribed ... and/or blackmailed. Just find a few Repubs who have been engaging in some extracurricular sack time with an intern, and that puts them that much closer to pushing the whole stinkin' deal through.

choprzrul
01-05-2013, 1:31 PM
Meh...

Target rich environment for Gura...

.

gregorylucas
01-05-2013, 1:33 PM
I see a lot of negativity and perhaps to some extent that is justified. However, I think we should keep in mind that if we band together and start fighting we stand a chance to defeat these draconian proposals.

Well then there's also Alan Gura if all fails :).

-Greg

victor1echo
01-05-2013, 1:34 PM
I hate to be negative, but remember --We need to pas it so we can read it? The political process does not work, the house is not going to save you.

SFgiants105
01-05-2013, 1:40 PM
It's like Obama's 9/11

njineermike
01-05-2013, 1:46 PM
Meh...

Target rich environment for Gura...

.

Because we can ALWAYS depend on SCOTUS to rule our way, and the states are always quick to comply when they do...

miztic
01-05-2013, 1:47 PM
You take all of the assault weapons you want, and when they roll down the street with a tank and point it at your house, you can start shooting them, just before they blow you up. You can't compete against the might of the government, nor should you be allowed to try. It is OUR government, after all.
They'll only get away with that once.

I'm actually a little encouraged by how desperate their tactics are, they are pulling out all the stops and dirty tricks.
We do have to keep fighting and call all our reps. I feel bad for you guys in CA you'll get the worst of it, expect a calguns donation from me

merrill
01-05-2013, 1:48 PM
The Salem Radio Network has come out with a petiton against gun control and for the second amendment. Please sign it. http://salemnational.com/second-amendment/

njineermike
01-05-2013, 1:48 PM
Keep fighting in Chicago too. That place is a gun grabbers wet dream.

SWalt
01-05-2013, 1:52 PM
All the naysayers not worrying about this better wake up. Its going to be slammed through before you can even type an e mail. Time to mobilize has since past. The ones sitting back and thinking Gura and others will make minced meat out of any law better think again too. A bad ruling by SCOTUS will be permanent.

Moonshine
01-05-2013, 1:52 PM
What's amazing is how in just a few weeks an entire decade of progress (gun shows on TV, Heller decision, etc.) was rolled back in a single day or two. Lanza is now up there with figures like Clinton, DiFi, and Daley in terms of his impact on gun control... And he did in one day what DiFi spent a lifetime doing: convince Americans guns should be illegal.

JSolie
01-05-2013, 1:57 PM
Just curious, does anyone have a csv file for our congress critters? Preferably one with DC and local addresses and fax numbers.

00Medic
01-05-2013, 2:08 PM
So. Say something(s) very very bad comes down the pipe. Could it be put into the courts and what would happen during that time?

My law knowledge is weak. Trying to learn here.

miztic
01-05-2013, 2:27 PM
What's amazing is how in just a few weeks an entire decade of progress (gun shows on TV, Heller decision, etc.) was rolled back in a single day or two. Lanza is now up there with figures like Clinton, DiFi, and Daley in terms of his impact on gun control... And he did in one day what DiFi spent a lifetime doing: convince Americans guns should be illegal.

Maybe not, more people then ever are buying. Even my boss who is a 'shotgun' guy is now looking for evil black rifles to buy.
The media is just making it sound like thats what the majority wants, but look at the comments section of those articles, anti gunners arguments get torn to pieces 90% of the time.

Now is not the time to sit back, we are in for a fight, but I think we can win.

1Asterisk
01-05-2013, 2:33 PM
... shouldn't we be very wary of any in our government trying to take away those rights? They want them for a reason, and it has nothing to do with keeping people safe.

What about this - Politicians prefer their peasants to be un-armed.

Just saying...

Tarn_Helm
01-05-2013, 2:35 PM
We're about to be bum rushed.


White House Plans To Overwhelm NRA With Rapid Victory

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/01/white-house-nra-gun-victory.php?ref=fpa

Yeah, and I am "planning" to win the Supa-Dupa Megalo-PowerBall Lottery.

Neither of which will happen.

Just keep sending grumply letters to lawmakers and lots of good donation checks to NRA, GOA, SAF, JPFO, and other worthy gun rights orgs.

Obama/Biden ain't doing shiznit with our RKBA.

Mark my words.

This is Sparta!!! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDRAhiBtOrQ)
:43:
KDRAhiBtOrQ

IVC
01-05-2013, 2:46 PM
Yeah, and I am "planning" to win the Supa-Dupa Megalo-PowerBall Lottery.

Me too! There is even an obscure online magazine that published an article on how to increase my chances by ten gazzillion percent. It was also written by a guy who understands neither lottery nor statistics.

Since when is an editorial piece relevant for the fight we have in front of us? Mindless pessimism is no different than mindless optimism. It's just a weak position to hold.

donny douchebag
01-05-2013, 2:56 PM
I think we are losing the war, fellas. What we're doing is clearly not working.

But, but, a month ago we were winning remember?

Hoop
01-05-2013, 2:59 PM
Just keep sending grumply letters to lawmakers and lots of good donation checks to NRA, GOA, SAF, JPFO, and other worthy gun rights orgs.

That's what will win it. Marches, whining on the internet, rushing to the store to stock up on ammo, none of that helps (and most likely hurts) the RKBA.

IVC
01-05-2013, 3:21 PM
That's what will win it. Marches, whining on the internet, rushing to the store to stock up on ammo, none of that helps (and most likely hurts) the RKBA.

Buying EBR-s helps due to wording in Heller of "in common use." The more modern sporting rifles are sold, the more they are in common use. These are simple and hard numbers that cannot be ignored by courts should this battle ever get to that point.

vincewarde
01-05-2013, 4:10 PM
I guess we are now a country run by polls.
He who makes the polls has the power.

Since the 2nd amendment was meant to control an overreaching, tyrannical government, shouldn't we be very wary of any in our government trying to take away those rights? They want them for a reason, and it has nothing to do with keeping people safe.

They have to move fast because the polls already show that support for new gun laws is dropping like a rock. Their only chance is to move while people are grieving. They also are living a fictional version of America where fewer and fewer households own guns. Yet in ten years, in spite of a recession, gun sales in the liberal paradise of California have tripped. We even get occasional positive coverage in the mainstream media - I have been watching this for years, and this has almost never happened in the past.

In recent years, the focus has been on the courts, where we have done well. Now the battle is in the arena where the NRA excels. If they think they are going to simply shove a bill through both houses in a month or less, they are delusional. The NRA is talking to any politicians who will listen. Their message is simple: In 2014, this battle is going to be over. Either way you vote - we will remember and we will make sure people know. If vote to restrict gun rights, we will do everything we can to defeat you. Do you remember 1994?

Given that Harry Reid represents a very pro-gun rights state, and the the Republicans hold the House getting a bill passed will be much harder than Obama and Biden think - unless Reid and a lot of House members want to retire at the end of their present terms, I don't think much will get passed.

There is one way they might get something they want: Give us something we want. Somehow I don't think they will do that.

IVC
01-05-2013, 4:24 PM
There is one way they might get something they want: Give us something we want. Somehow I don't think they will do that.

Even if we gave them something they want, we can challenge it in court later. They know it. This battle is the WWI trench warfare - we are all dug in and waiting for the "big push."

hornswaggled
01-05-2013, 4:28 PM
Prepare to repel. Write your congressman, write Reid and Boehner, write to Bob Goodlatte.

odysseus
01-05-2013, 4:33 PM
Wait! Wait! Everyone relax.

I have been told even right here on CalGuns by some that Obama and the DNC will not go after 2A Rights. Even though he has a career background in funding the Brady Group and comes from years as a representative from Illinois, he simply would find it not politically expedient for him to push that agenda. They posted countless posts and threads saying the guy to really worry about that would fight against your 2A rights, despite his NRA rating, was really Romney.

Where are those guys posting about that anyway?

jccam
01-05-2013, 4:35 PM
It will be a tough fight, but take heart. A few things --at the national level--should give us some hope and courage:

1. We are stronger now than back in 1994. Gun ownership--especially what used to be called "assault weapons"--is way up in the past 20 years, and much more mainstream. The more people that own them, the fewer people who will be hoodwinked into thinking they are somehow intrinsically evil.

2. We are no longer shackled by the old mainstream media as the source and arbiter of information. We used to rely on anti-gun ABC, CBS, NBC, Time, & Newsweek for news. No longer. Those outfits are dinosaurs--no one cares about them any more. The last AWB predated the widespread use of the Internet.

3. The last AWB can be proved to be a failure, and (politically) everyone knows the political price that its supporters paid for it.

4. We have Heller & McDonald behind us. Those cases also shifted the framework of the conversation to the area of RIGHTS.

5. We have a more robust RKBA community, more inclined to think in terms of gun RIGHTS, not just hunting and sport. We are no longer merely defensive ("Please sir, don't take away ALL my rights! Please leave me a few...I'll compromise.") We are now able and willing to go on the offensive--in other words, to phrase things in terms of More Guns =Less Crime. This just wasn't part of the vocabulary back in 1994. Since those days, we have seen the outstanding success of Concealed Carry across the nation. That must be the bitterest pill for anti-gunners to swallow. The fact that blood did NOT flow in the streets and CCW did not turn our nation into the "Wild West." And every one of those CCW permit holders now KNOWS that guns do not automatically cause crime.

Yes, it would have been better to go another 5 years without such a threat and be still more solid in our gains before facing this struggle... but you cannot choose your time, it chooses you. If we're going to have this fight (this "conversation," as they call it), then it could be worse than to have it now. The very fact that people are calling for a "dialogue" means that they (begrudgingly) recognize that our side has a strong convictions. People are listening, AND the general public is more likely to listen to arguments about gun rights than they ever were before. So, let's make our case...and WIN this thing. If we can WIN this---this time--it may well mean that we have solidified our gains over the past 20 years. If the antis fail to get their ban under these circumstances, it will prove that the tide HAS shifted in our favor.

Ammodog
01-05-2013, 4:38 PM
The Fabian Socialists want all the guns and then No one expects the ЧЕКИСТ !

jBpPwA8-Xg4

X-NewYawker
01-05-2013, 4:46 PM
Look ARs and magazines as we know them are going bye-bye. It's only ACTUAL POLITICIANS that can stop this. Give to the NRA and GOA and write letters, but know that in Cam for example, we are hosed, and Nationally look what they are doing -- proposing HUNDREDS of bills in cities, states and Congress -- SOME of these will slip through -- any that do will give credence to ones not passed yet -- this is not a time to think "nothing will happen"
We didn't think AWB 1.0 was gonna go through, either.

trashman
01-05-2013, 5:22 PM
Look ARs and magazines as we know them are going bye-bye.

I agree with half of what you say - I think 10+ magazines are a goner. I think it's stupid, but it's the times we live in.

The AR thing is trickier -- we will find out exactly how much political capital the President is willing to spend on that particular sub-issue, esp. with regards to a wholesale ban on new sales to civilians. I can't imagine he would be willing to have something that winds up in front of SCOTUS in the short-term...

Interesting and rocky times ahead.

--Neill

JSolie
01-05-2013, 5:23 PM
That's what will win it. Marches, whining on the internet, rushing to the store to stock up on ammo, none of that helps (and most likely hurts) the RKBA.

That's why I was asking about a CSV or excel file of addresses... I got a stack of paper, a bunch of envelopes, stamps and a printer, and I ain't afraid to use them! :oji:

myk
01-05-2013, 5:36 PM
You take all of the assault weapons you want, and when they roll down the street with a tank and point it at your house, you can start shooting them, just before they blow you up. You can't compete against the might of the government, nor should you be allowed to try. It is OUR government, after all.

That's fine by me. Without our Constitutional rights what sort of a life would we be living anyway? Without our rights, our freedoms we're not really alive-it isn't enough for me JUST to be alive. I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees...

IVC
01-05-2013, 6:14 PM
To those who proclaim that the 10 round limit is coming up: first, you don't know it, so stop spreading FUD; second, just because it seems more mainstream given that we already have such a limit in CA, it doesn't mean it's in any way mainstream in most of the *other* states.

The 10 round limit looks to other states the way a 5 round limit would look to us in CA. If the proposal was to define "high capacity" as anything over 5 rounds, would you still believe it would be a forgone conclusion? Do you believe an arbitrary restriction like that can withstand a legal challenge in light of Heller and McDonald? Do you believe that Supreme Court doesn't matter and that their rulings are optional?

It's not time to push for happy-go-lucky optimism, but the pessimism displayed in some of these posts is downright appalling, if nothing else then because there is not an ounce of reality in them. At this time, we don't know what the antis will push for and we don't know how it will all go down, but we do know that rights cannot just be stripped and SCOTUS overruled through polling and mass media.

Please stop with the FUD.

Capybara
01-05-2013, 6:18 PM
It seems that a lot of Calgunners are already conceding defeat when the battle has barely started. Sad.

RMP91
01-05-2013, 6:22 PM
+ 1000 to the previous 2 posters...

Never in my life have I've seen such a massive amount of pessimism and doomsaying...

We've beaten them before, and we'll do it again, and again and again until they finally give up (I don't think they'll ever actually give up, per se, but in terms of actually having a shot to pass more BS laws). They simply do not have the numbers, money, votes, and influence that we do! It's simple math really.

Cypriss32
01-05-2013, 6:24 PM
+ 1000 to the previous 2 posters...

Never in my life have I've seen such a massive amount of pessimism and doomsaying...

We've beaten them before, and we'll do it again, and again and again until they finally give up! They simply do not have the numbers, money, votes, and influence that we do! It's simple math really.

Ya..... Keep your head up. Now I see ALOT OF people on here, prolly 2/3 of members that STILL believe nothing is gona happen. They are plain fools. Time for donations, calls, emails and whatever YOU can do. A united 2A is very powerful and would be the BEST fight. But being people are too into marketplace ****ing each other over to make a buck. THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

CDFingers
01-05-2013, 6:27 PM
The Dems would need about 25 Repub votes in the House to pass anything. They don't have the votes.

CDFingers

njineermike
01-05-2013, 6:35 PM
The Dems would need about 25 Repub votes in the House to pass anything. They don't have the votes.

CDFingers

Maybe the problem is too many dems in the house as it is. Say, you voted dem, didn't you?

b.faust
01-05-2013, 6:35 PM
Read one article and freak out.
Here:
Read another take on the situation.

Liberals Panic as they loose the gun narrative (http://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2012/12/26/liberals-panic-as-they-lose-the-gun-narrative-n1473885)

Nothing has happened yet.
Donate, get involved and stay aware.
"It's over!" doesn't help your morale or anyone else's around here.

This isn't 1994, things have changed quite a bit.

RMP91
01-05-2013, 6:40 PM
Read one article and freak out.
Here:
Read another take on the situation.

Liberals Panic as they loose the gun narrative (http://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2012/12/26/liberals-panic-as-they-lose-the-gun-narrative-n1473885)

Nothing has happened yet.
Donate, get involved and stay aware.
"It's over!" doesn't help your morale or anyone else's around here.

This isn't 1994, things have changed quite a bit.

So basically, Obama handing off his Gun Control agenda to Joe translates to : "I don't wanna deal with this".

Am I in the ball park with that one?

Just Dave
01-05-2013, 6:42 PM
A good military strategy is to expect the worst, prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Fate
01-05-2013, 6:47 PM
"It's over!" doesn't help your morale or anyone else's around here.

This isn't 1994, things have changed quite a bit.

"Nothing is over until we say it is. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! And it ain't over now..."

ep-xgd_eETE

b.faust
01-05-2013, 6:50 PM
So basically, Obama handing off his Gun Control agenda to Joe translates to : "I don't wanna deal with this".

Am I in the ball park with that one?

I think that's some of it, but not the whole meat of the article.
The press and anti-politicians are trying desperately to keep the issue 'alive' and the attention span of the average American is nill.
In 94 most gun owners didn't have email or internet access, they only heard mixed information via word of mouth and at the local gun range/store. The NRA sent out snail mail, but by the time that hit mailboxes it was irrelevant or outdated.

We've got instant feedback today, for good and for bad.
But the good is information and news gets out really quickly. Bad or straight up false information can be corrected countered in real time.

The bad is exactly how this thread got started, a reporter wrote a slanted article with trigger words and phrases, and got everyone here worked up.

B.

b.faust
01-05-2013, 6:52 PM
"Nothing is over until we say it is. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! And it ain't over now..."

ep-xgd_eETE

Dude, I was actually thinking about that when I typed it. hahaha.
Such an awesome movie.

Hogstir
01-05-2013, 6:55 PM
Well this "bums rush" strategy explains the 90 day seal on the police investigation and the gag order on the Sandy Hook parents.

cdtx2001
01-05-2013, 7:01 PM
Sheesh guys!!! What's with all the defeatists attitudes???

I will not give up and am not letting anyone I know admit defeat.

The fight is just getting started and it looks like it's going to be fun.

Besides, am I the only one that is enjoying all the idiot politicians outing themselves as the anti-freedom socialists that they are? We now know who the enemies of the Constitution are whereas before we had to guess.

We are not finished, not by a long shot boys.

njineermike
01-05-2013, 7:05 PM
I don't agree withe the "We're screwed" mentality, but do feel cautious about how far some are willing to go for political expediency. A few Chris Christie's can make life tough for us for a while.

Chatterbox
01-05-2013, 7:07 PM
They are going to ban all semi-automatic, bolt action, muzzle loading and muscle-powered weapons! Magazines over zero rounds! Bullets that weight more then 0.01 grain!

http://files-cdn.formspring.me/photos/20120715/n50036bcb6e46a_large.jpg

Just Dave
01-05-2013, 7:13 PM
Read one article and freak out.
Here:
Read another take on the situation.

Liberals Panic as they loose the gun narrative (http://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2012/12/26/liberals-panic-as-they-lose-the-gun-narrative-n1473885)

Nothing has happened yet.
Donate, get involved and stay aware.
"It's over!" doesn't help your morale or anyone else's around here.

This isn't 1994, things have changed quite a bit.

Good article, I would have to agree that we are winning the opinion fight but we are far from out of the woods on this thing.

tcrpe
01-05-2013, 7:16 PM
Good article, I would have to agree that we are winning the opinion fight but we are far from out of the woods on this thing.

You haven't yet seen the propaganda push from those that wish to outlaw self-defense.

They are very good at it, and they have the full force of the MSM behind them.

frankm
01-05-2013, 7:17 PM
You take all of the assault weapons you want, and when they roll down the street with a tank and point it at your house, you can start shooting them, just before they blow you up. You can't compete against the might of the government, nor should you be allowed to try. It is OUR government, after all.

That's fine by me. Without our Constitutional rights what sort of a life would we be living anyway? Without our rights, our freedoms we're not really alive-it isn't enough for me JUST to be alive. I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees...

Really? We shoudn't be "allowed"? How about this? If our government forces away our 2nd Amendment, are they still our government? No. Because any American government can only operate under the Constitution to maintain legitimacy.

njineermike
01-05-2013, 7:19 PM
Really? We shoudn't be "allowed"? How about this? If our government forces away our 2nd Amendment, are they still our government? No. Because any American government can only operate under the Constitution to maintain legitimacy.

He tried quoting from the comments. That wasn't his statement.

Sunday
01-05-2013, 7:22 PM
Remember that 53% of the voters picked the hard core socialism party. Guns bad!!!

chris
01-05-2013, 7:23 PM
we know this is coming and now we know the way they plan on doing it. i want to say this is the time to flood the phones and email servers

Sunday
01-05-2013, 7:24 PM
But, but, a month ago we were winning remember?
Just like what was said about Vietnam,,, we some how won the battles but some how we lost the war!

Meplat
01-05-2013, 7:27 PM
It is what it is.


Ask the Indians if it was a good idea to give up their guns.

‘The Indians’ didn’t by and large give up their guns. But they allowed politicians to negotiate them into oblivion. There is more than one point to be pondered in that.

njineermike
01-05-2013, 7:30 PM
‘The Indians’ didn’t by and large give up their guns. But they allowed politicians to negotiate them into oblivion. There is more than one point to be pondered in that.

I think today we call that "reasonable concessions".

Jungleboxx
01-05-2013, 7:38 PM
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2012.html

37 Executive Orders in 2012

That's just over 3 a month

They don't need anything from the rebulicans

sakosf
01-05-2013, 7:46 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-weighs-broad-gun-control-agenda-in-wake-of-newtown-shootings/2013/01/05/d281efe0-5682-11e2-bf3e-76c0a789346f_print.html

tcrpe
01-05-2013, 7:50 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-weighs-broad-gun-control-agenda-in-wake-of-newtown-shootings/2013/01/05/d281efe0-5682-11e2-bf3e-76c0a789346f_print.html

These idiots want to double down on gun free school defenseless victim zones?

Boys, they are coming or your guns, step by step.

SlobRay
01-05-2013, 7:51 PM
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2012.html

37 Executive Orders in 2012

That's just over 3 a month

They don't need anything from the rebulicans

Looks like a possibility, check out this article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-weighs-broad-gun-control-agenda-in-wake-of-newtown-shootings/2013/01/05/d281efe0-5682-11e2-bf3e-76c0a789346f_story.html?wpmk=MK0000200

In addition to potential legislative proposals, Biden’s group has expanded its focus to include measures that would not need congressional approval and could be quickly implemented by executive action, according to interest-group leaders who have discussed options with Biden and key Cabinet secretaries. Possibilities include changes to federal mental-health programs and modernization of gun-tracking efforts by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Edit: Sakosf beat me to it.

Ray

1Asterisk
01-05-2013, 8:58 PM
The NRA won't rigorously oppose a total "high capacity" magazine ban. They will accept a Federal registration & taxation scheme for all semi-auto firearms aka: NFA 2. They will accept 100% background checks for all firearms sales aka: Brady 3. They will probably accept banning all semi-auto firearms made from imported parts like AKs aka: GCA 2.


My guess is you are not a motivational speaker in real life? Premature surrender...that's a French thing.

O'Brien
01-05-2013, 9:01 PM
I guess we are now a country run by polls.
He who makes the polls has the power.

Since the 2nd amendment was meant to control an overreaching, tyrannical government, shouldn't we be very wary of any in our government trying to take away those rights? They want them for a reason, and it has nothing to do with keeping people safe.

This. I like this.

ElvenSoul
01-05-2013, 9:04 PM
Just keep getting people signed up for the NRA!

This is a game of numbers.

H Paul Payne
01-05-2013, 9:23 PM
The NRA won't rigorously oppose ....... They will accept a ....... They will accept ....... They will probably accept .......

What is your source???

You made three definitive statements and one that was not so definitive.

List your source of these items that you have stated as if they are FACTUAL.

If you have some insight into NRA's plans, policies, etc. regarding the issues you have addressed, then you have a name of the person who must have told you the statements you have made (above). What is his/her name???

We're waiting............... and waiting.............. and waiting...................

My guess is that you can't list a source, because what you stated as fact, is in fact --- not true.

You see, I happen to know a little bit about NRA policy. And what you have stated is not it!

Paul

Cpt
01-05-2013, 9:29 PM
All these firearms regulations articles and talk just keep translating into the price if guns going up and more mass panic buying.

RRangel
01-05-2013, 9:47 PM
It worked for ObamaCare.

You're ignoring the make up of the legislature at the time. The Dems paid for their chicanery. No more Pelosi as speaker either.

njineermike
01-05-2013, 10:17 PM
You're ignoring the make up of the legislature at the time. The Dems paid for their chicanery. No more Pelosi as speaker either.

It cost them the house, but not much more. They still have the Senate and Obama is still President.

SWalt
01-05-2013, 10:28 PM
You haven't yet seen the propaganda push from those that wish to outlaw self-defense.

They are very good at it, and they have the full force of the MSM behind them.

And this will be used very effectively to sway the public. They will pull out all the stops. I read Gabby Gifford will/may testify and expect others to testify of how "gun violence" have changed their lives forever. Gifford will be especially tough to watch for people who work strictly use emotion as their guide. A Congress Woman, articulate, intelligent, with a world full of promise now reduced to struggling, having life put back together. Not a pretty picture and will be used to maximum effect.

We can't sit back and think "things have changed since '94, we are more organized with the net and social media" or "Heller has made things different from '94" , what hasn't changed is "a picture is worth a thousand words".

Underestimating any enemy is wrong headed IMHO.

CA Barbarian
01-05-2013, 10:28 PM
What's amazing is how in just a few weeks an entire decade of progress (gun shows on TV, Heller decision, etc.) was rolled back in a single day or two. Lanza is now up there with figures like Clinton, DiFi, and Daley in terms of his impact on gun control... And he did in one day what DiFi spent a lifetime doing: convince Americans guns should be illegal.

Exactly what Lanza's handlers were counting on.

RRangel
01-05-2013, 10:33 PM
It cost them the house, but not much more. They still have the Senate and Obama is still President.

Yeah, just the House of Representatives. Which would have prevented that whole little Obamacare thing. Which was my point.

njineermike
01-05-2013, 10:36 PM
Yeah, just the House of Representatives. Which would have prevented that whole little Obamacare thing. Which was my point.

And my point is that it should have done significantly more political damage, but right now the populace wants what they're selling.

socalbud
01-05-2013, 10:45 PM
An Assault Weapons Ban is a given, there is no stopping that. It'll be hard to make a logical argument that Joe Civy needs an assault rifle to protect himself, when a handgun would do just fine.

njineermike
01-05-2013, 10:50 PM
An Assault Weapons Ban is a given, there is no stopping that. It'll be hard to make a logical argument that Joe Civy needs an assault rifle to protect himself, when a handgun would do just fine.

:facepalm:

lilro
01-05-2013, 10:57 PM
The reason a lot of us feel defeated is because the guys heading the 2A movement are suggesting we do the same thing we've been doing for decades.
NRA donations and letters to Congress got us NFA, GCA, AWB1, CA AWB, etc. It doesn't stop them. It doesn't change things in our favor. It just makes us die slow. Which is more effective for them. Frogs in boiling water.

Letters and donations did nothing for black civil rights. Letters and donations did nothing for illegal immigrants. Letters and donations did nothing for gay rights. Letters and donations did nothing for women's rights. Letters and donations did nothing for marijuana. And it hasn't been doing anything for the 2A. We have to just go out and exercise our rights, in huge numbers. Make it unavoidable. That's what works.

What's the definition of insanity?

SWalt
01-05-2013, 10:57 PM
An Assault Weapons Ban is a given, there is no stopping that. It'll be hard to make a logical argument that Joe Civy needs an assault rifle to protect himself, when a handgun would do just fine.

:facepalm:

Double :facepalm::facepalm:

If you think that socalbud.....just bend over now.

strokesdmb
01-05-2013, 11:01 PM
An Assault Weapons Ban is a given, there is no stopping that. It'll be hard to make a logical argument that Joe Civy needs an assault rifle to protect himself, when a handgun would do just fine.

Dumbest thing I've heard all year. And its only 5 days in :banghead:

SWalt
01-05-2013, 11:06 PM
The reason a lot of us feel defeated is because the guys heading the 2A movement are suggesting we do the same thing we've been doing for decades.
NRA donations and letters to Congress got us NFA, GCA, AWB1, CA AWB, etc. It doesn't stop them. It doesn't change things in our favor. It just makes us die slow. Which is more effective for them. Frogs in boiling water.

Each battle is different. If you ever played any sports you know it aint over until its over. The fat lady hasn't sung yet. To throw up your arms and give up is itself defeatist. Keep your head in the game. What impediment is there to keep fighting? None

IVC
01-05-2013, 11:18 PM
My guess is that you can't list a source, because what you stated as fact, is in fact --- not true.

You see, I happen to know a little bit about NRA policy. And what you have stated is not it!

This pretty much says it all.

There is a battle ahead of us and we need to get ready. We will answer the call and we will fight the battle. That's the only certainty at the moment.

tetris
01-05-2013, 11:24 PM
I think we are losing the war, fellas. What we're doing is clearly not working.

I'll believe it when I see it. Obama wanted a magazine ban by the Saturday before Christmas...well...nothing. Feinstein was gonna introduce her bill on Jan 3rd...nothing. Then they were gonna get something passed in early January for sure, nothing. Now they are saying they setup study groups to issue reports in early Feb.

We'll see. To me, I think its still unlikely they will get any serious bans through. As we speak, most people are forgetting about Sandy Hook and going back to worrying about our lousy economy and recent tax increases :oji:

RMP91
01-05-2013, 11:34 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. Obama wanted a magazine ban by the Saturday before Christmas...well...nothing. Feinstein was gonna introduce her bill on Jan 3rd...nothing. Then they were gonna get something passed in early January for sure, nothing. Now they are saying they setup study groups to issue reports in early Feb.

We'll see. To me, I think its still unlikely they will get any serious bans through. As we speak, most people are forgetting about Sandy Hook and going back to worrying about our lousy economy and recent tax increases :oji:

+1

Time is on our side!

However, if another mass shooting happens before the end of the month, all bets are off! :facepalm:

Krak
01-05-2013, 11:36 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. Obama wanted a magazine ban by the Saturday before Christmas...well...nothing. Feinstein was gonna introduce her bill on Jan 3rd...nothing. Then they were gonna get something passed in early January for sure, nothing. Now they are saying they setup study groups to issue reports in early Feb.

We'll see. To me, I think its still unlikely they will get any serious bans through. As we speak, most people are forgetting about Sandy Hook and going back to worrying about our lousy economy and recent tax increases :oji:

That doesn't mean we can relax and be complacent. Who knows why they are stalling. Keep writing, donating, calling, and informing uneducated individuals. Every second they delay helps our cause but only if we use that time wisely.

SWalt
01-05-2013, 11:43 PM
There is 1 thing that seems to escape notice. 2.7 Million background checks. Almost all firearms and ammo gone! The only way it is noticed is....."There is nothing to buy and everything is triple in price!" Despite the conventional thinking, there is a huge upside to this. That is...people are voting with their wallets to the point of frenzy! Any politico or politician would be fool hardy not to notice.

Tarn_Helm
01-05-2013, 11:46 PM
An Assault Weapons Ban is a given, there is no stopping that. It'll be hard to make a logical argument that Joe Civy needs an assault rifle to protect himself, when a handgun would do just fine.

You must be smokin' the same thing he's smokin' . . .
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p13/AimSmllMssSmll/BarackObamagettingstoned.jpg

It ain't gonna happen.

The Choom Interceptor put O' Biden in charge.

That means the Gun Grab will fall flat.

I'll bet you a pack of Big Bamboo ZigZags (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3bN-pI5oMg).

Z3bN-pI5oMg
:cool:

curtisfong
01-06-2013, 12:25 AM
If they were winning they wouldn't have to resort to a bum rush.

the new guy
01-06-2013, 3:36 AM
This pretty much says it all.

There is a battle ahead of us and we need to get ready. We will answer the call and we will fight the battle. That's the only certainty at the moment.

What would be the next step after donating to NRA, etc., emailing, calling and writing letters fall short of victory? This is the "fight the battle" you're talking about, right?

So what happens if all of that "fighting the battle" fails?

And a...we'll worry about that when the time comes doesn't cut it, imo.

IVC
01-06-2013, 3:46 AM
So what happens if all of that "fighting the battle" fails?

And a...we'll worry about that when the time comes doesn't cut it, imo.

If it fails it fails - one cannot avoid life and battles because of the fear of failure.

A potential failure you speak of would lead to immediate shift to the courts, asking for the preliminary injunction which is likely to be granted in a friendly jurisdiction (our side picks the venue). If there is no injunction, we battle all the way to the Supreme Court if we cannot get a single victory along the way.

The ruling in Heller says "arms in common use are protected." The ruling in Miller says "military arms are protected." Is it possible the Supreme Court reverses itself? As possible as them reversing Roe vs. Wade - highly unlikely.

As for "worrying when the time comes," the full machine is already firing on all cylinders. These things are not resolved in public, but behind the closed doors. Just because you don't see it, it doesn't mean it's not there. Think about it.

voiceofreason
01-06-2013, 4:42 AM
What's amazing is how in just a few weeks an entire decade of progress (gun shows on TV, Heller decision, etc.) was rolled back in a single day or two. Lanza is now up there with figures like Clinton, DiFi, and Daley in terms of his impact on gun control... And he did in one day what DiFi spent a lifetime doing: convince Americans guns should be illegal.

Lanza didn't do it, the gun grabbers will use ANY tragedy or excuse to further their agenda. Lanza was a disturbed individual.

voiceofreason
01-06-2013, 4:45 AM
I guess we are now a country run by polls.
He who makes the polls has the power.

Polls are simply one of the tools the mainstream media uses to "prove" their points. Polls are easily manipulated through questions used, demographics polled, timing, and scale. I guarantee you any good poll company can get any numbers you want.

The general populace of the US is so myopic and self absorbed... they would rather be TOLD what to think and regurgitate by the the left leaning media than to think for themselves.

This applies to younger people all the way to elderly who oftentimes watch little but the news.

donny douchebag
01-06-2013, 6:02 AM
Fight all you want but remember this: there will be more mass shootings. They're not going to end whether we win or lose. That the other side hasn't accepted this yet only means they'll continue to push forward until they get what they want.

majtom94
01-06-2013, 7:44 AM
Not so fast - Republcan Senator from Ky says that he next three months are going to be used ironing out the budget and the debt limit....

God bless the organization of the Government, focusing on the business in lieu of the irrational may be the thing that derails the gun grabbers.

NRA and other coalitions must spend time on legal authority and potential challenges to the Obamie's Executive Order authority. i believe he has shown very little restraint in its use towards other matters that he needs to deliver to his foolish constituency.

SPUTTER
01-06-2013, 7:57 AM
An Assault Weapons Ban is a given, there is no stopping that. It'll be hard to make a logical argument that Joe Civy needs an assault rifle to protect himself, when a handgun would do just fine.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Isn't it a shame that some Americans have no sense of history or identity. Ignorance is our worst enemy.

glock7
01-06-2013, 8:22 AM
Meh...

Target rich environment for Gura...

.

^ best post i've seen in this thread. i don't see them going for the whole enchilada. we do have people fighting for us....simma down naaa.:oji:

cdtx2001
01-06-2013, 8:36 AM
So now that this thread has wandered completely off course....

How exactly is the White House going to try and overwhelm the NRA? Sounds to me like the White House is just going to declare victory without a fight, a very illegal move that will be fought with facts and the Constitution.

C'mon guys, bring it back on topic.

glock7
01-06-2013, 8:46 AM
What is your source???

You made three definitive statements and one that was not so definitive.

List your source of these items that you have stated as if they are FACTUAL.

If you have some insight into NRA's plans, policies, etc. regarding the issues you have addressed, then you have a name of the person who must have told you the statements you have made (above). What is his/her name???

We're waiting............... and waiting.............. and waiting...................

My guess is that you can't list a source, because what you stated as fact, is in fact --- not true.

You see, I happen to know a little bit about NRA policy. And what you have stated is not it!

Paul

Thank you...

SPUTTER
01-06-2013, 9:08 AM
Whats worse is a whole lot of these new gun owners "think" the right to bear arms is something granted by government.

SoCalXD
01-06-2013, 9:27 AM
Not one step, not one inch, not one round, not one magazine, not one rifle!

Make a list, and check it twice, to see who's been naughty, and who's been nice, in your local area. Include home addresses, and personal vehicles of those who have been bad, Include their staff members, and include the names of their spouses and children. Take pictures, draw maps, find out where they shop, where they dine, and where their friends live. Then send them a copy. This is no different that what an investigative blogger does, and no different that what Union activists do to their political rivals, so it must not be illegal, in and of itself, right?

It's time for the gloves to come off. It's time to end the civility we have forever offered, yet never receive in kind. It's time for anger. It's time for real civil disobedience. It's time for marches. It's time for the progressive-statists to internalize that we are not the sheep they think we are and that they are not immune from in-your-face actions against them. If PETA can throw blood on those wearing fur, we can throw the symbolic blood of our dead veterans who have fought and died for our Rights.

It's time for our fellow citizens, who have been tamed by decades of progressive disinformation, to see that they are not alone in their frustration regarding these issues, and it's okay to act out in civil disobedience to fight for the retention of our Natural/God-given and specifically enumerated Constitutional Rights.

Or we can all just go back to watching T.V. and playing XBox.

JochenWeber
01-06-2013, 10:20 AM
The Dems would need about 25 Repub votes in the House to pass anything. They don't have the votes.

CDFingers


Heidi Heitkamp: Reported White House Gun Control Plans 'Way In Extreme' (VIDEO)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/06/heidi-heitkamp-gun-control_n_2420775.html

SandHill
01-06-2013, 10:34 AM
So now that this thread has wandered completely off course....

How exactly is the White House going to try and overwhelm the NRA? Sounds to me like the White House is just going to declare victory without a fight, a very illegal move that will be fought with facts and the Constitution.

C'mon guys, bring it back on topic.

I don't know how Obama thinks he can ram major gun control measures through this month, but I think I know why that's the plan: its basically his only hope.

Clearly, the measures being bandies about at the federal level are not going to be easy to get throguht Congress. Obama's problem is that he has lots of other battles that he can't avoid in the near future: sequestration, debt ceiling, reauthorization. If he can't pass gun legislation fast, its going to get shoved aside. Personally, I don't think he can pass major legislation fast, so I don't think its going to happen at the federal level, not that we shouldn't fight it (should I write to my Senators? Do DiFi and Boxer care what I think?).

I continue to believe we have much more to fear at the state level. The inmates have truly taken over the asylum there. We'll be lucky if they continue to allow 10 round capacity in BB guns in a couple years.

Inoxmark
01-06-2013, 10:42 AM
... It'll be hard to make a logical argument that Joe Civy needs an assault rifle to protect himself, when a handgun would do just fine.Here are your logical arguments without even touching any sporting or 2A issues:
1. What if the person Joe is trying to protect himself from is armed with "assault rifle"? Handgun would still do fine?
2. Suppose for a minute criminals indeed cannot obtain "assault rifles" due to bans. Impossible but we can entertain that idea. Now there are three if them armed with handguns against Joe. Would he still do fine with a handgun?
3. Why do police officers drive around with AR rifle in the rack? To mow down large number of people in a short time? Shooting from the hip? Or maybe there's another purpose?

2glock3
01-06-2013, 10:57 AM
With nothing but polls and articles to base anything on, we look like we are panicking. Without bills being passed, we don't know what is coming, if anything.

It appears to be working.

rexbo47
01-06-2013, 11:42 AM
An Assault Weapons Ban is a given, there is no stopping that. It'll be hard to make a logical argument that Joe Civy needs an assault rifle to protect himself, when a handgun would do just fine.

Your argument must be based on the Bill of Needs rather than the Bill of Rights.

Could you please post a copy for all of us to read?

IVC
01-06-2013, 11:42 AM
Fight all you want but remember this: there will be more mass shootings. They're not going to end whether we win or lose. That the other side hasn't accepted this yet only means they'll continue to push forward until they get what they want.

Or until we get what we want - a set of legal precedents that a preliminary injunction will be granted upon any attempt at such legislation.

SWalt
01-06-2013, 12:07 PM
So now that this thread has wandered completely off course....

How exactly is the White House going to try and overwhelm the NRA? Sounds to me like the White House is just going to declare victory without a fight, a very illegal move that will be fought with facts and the Constitution.

C'mon guys, bring it back on topic.

You do it the 'ol fashion way. Prior planning, political machinery and execute. "Congressman....you had a great idea with that new interstate interchange, too bad the environmental reports recently hit a road block. I do have a few suggestions to help it get back on track. Can I count on you around the end of January?"

Exactly how they will do it, anyones guess.

gregorylucas
01-06-2013, 12:45 PM
I'm on the young side (I'm 34) and here's what I've seen in my life.
1) AWB passed in '94, AWB sunsetted in '04 due to our concentrated lobbying efforts to see it die.
2) In California SB23 was passed in 2000 and in 2006 I bought my first two AR-15 lowers due to lawsuits and effective lobbying.
3) For hundreds of years we never knew what the 2nd amendment meant, then in '08 we finally got an individual right to keep and bear arms.

We have many, many more battles to fight in defense of our freedoms, some of these we may not win but from what I can see we are in a much better spot than when I started my adult life-especially in California.

There's a lot of pessimism on this thread, almost as if people have given up already. If we start believing that then the anti-2A forces have already won and we may as well just turn in our firearms already.

Consider this:
1) We have > 40 pro-gun R's in the Senate and several pro-gun D's there as well. Chances are anything vaguely oppressive will be filibustered and that's assuming legislation even gets to the floor of the chamber.
2) The VAST majority of R's in House are pro-gun as well as pro-gun D's. That's also assuming a vote can be brought to the floor.
3) Heller will be a major roadblock to any new gun bans.

Like someone else on this thread said, being overly pessimistic is just as bad as being overoptimistic because we still need to KEEP THE PRESSURE on our elected representatives and support groups like the NRA and CalGuns-they will be critical to getting us through this rough patch. Remember, this might be a prolonged storm but if we stand together shoulder to shoulder we should be able to combat the bull charging our way.

-Greg

wjc
01-06-2013, 1:33 PM
Write your Congress critters.

Write your state legislators.

Contribute to the organizations that support your rights.

Rickrock1
01-06-2013, 8:51 PM
What's wrong with lots of these people on this string Already throwing in the towel. That's the problem people are so weak and so quick to throw in the towel or think automaticly that we are going to get certain types of arms banned or restricted. What's wrong with you people support not only the NRA but other pro gun groups and organize people and encourage them to make noise and write letters and emails . C'mon people lets sounds the trumpets and rally and just give in and of roll over. Yes we have a fight on our hands but we need to get suited and booted and fight these Goons. Sorry if I'm venting but I'm sick and tired of people wanting to already compromise wih the unknown. Ughhhh

nicki
01-07-2013, 12:54 AM
[QUOTE=gregorylucas;10127478]I'm on the young side (I'm 34) and here's what I've seen in my life.
1) AWB passed in '94, AWB sunsetted in '04 due to our concentrated lobbying efforts to see it die.
2) In California SB23 was passed in 2000 and in 2006 I bought my first two AR-15 lowers due to lawsuits and effective lobbying.
3) For hundreds of years we never knew what the 2nd amendment meant, then in '08 we finally got an individual right to keep and bear arms.

We have many, many more battles to fight in defense of our freedoms, some of these we may not win but from what I can see we are in a much better spot than when I started my adult life-especially in California.

There's a lot of pessimism on this thread, almost as if people have given up already. If we start believing that then the anti-2A forces have already won and we may as well just turn in our firearms already.


Even though I am only 53, I have been following gun control since I was a teenager. I grew up in NYC during the crime waves of the 1970s, left in 1978.

Back in those days the media hard an easier time shaping public opinion because they had a monopoly on getting info out.

The internet has helped level the playing field, in fact the MSM has lost market share, they simply are not reaching the masses the way they used to.

The outright lies are now coming out and our side is able to regroup.

Creative individuals give us pleasant surprises, look at what they did to the MAIG's demand a plan video with the Hollywood Hypocrites. One individual has seriously gutted a well scripted propaganda piece.

The reality is we outnumber our opponents where it counts, contacting elected representatives.

How many of us have cell phones with unlimited long distance calling? Back in 1994, most of us didn't.

Back in 2001 they started holding onto letters sent to congress because of anthrax, e mails are probably overloaded, so the way to reach Congress is through the phone.

Call your Congressman, a call to Feinstein won't change her mind, but it will tie
up staff, same with Boxer.

Calls to pro gun democratic senators in red states may be worthwhile, especially if you can tie that gun control hurts democrats and that working families will be hurt if the republicans get control of the senate.

You could say that if it wasn't for religious extremists screwing things up for Romney, Obama would have lost. We don't need to screw up like the republicans and let them get control of the senate and house in 2014 just like we did in 1994.

Back in 1994 Bill Clinton got the FED AW ban by only 1 vote. The republicans who voted the wrong way were always anti gun RINOs and their numbers are drastically down.

The proposed bills are far worse and if they had been submitted in 1994, they may have failed inspire of the demos controlling the house and the senate.

The last thing any republican congressman wants is a Challenger in their primary, they already have enough problems with the fiscal cliff deal, why add gasoline to the fire.

Our side put up a good fight in the senate in 1994, I watched many of the hearings. Unlike last time, our side is better prepared because frankly, we know much more now about mass shooters and we have more issues we can throw into the fillibuster.

This bill will not be ready for a vote by the end of January, what it is going to happen is massive gridlock, support for the high cap mag ban will start to fall apart once people realize that if the bill passes, that they won't be able to get new 15 round mags for their handguns.

Last time around, manufacturer's were making 1 million mags per day.

Considering that magazines are simple items and we have had advances in manufacturing technology in the last twenty years, it wouldn't surprise me if manufacturers have ramped up production and are now making 4 million plus magazines per day.

You can bet that all the gun makers are increasing shifts, factories will be running overtime.

AR pattern guns are being sold as fast as they can be made and the manufacturer's know that even if they are banned, they probably will be able to still sell parts for another few years.

This is going to drag out for at least 6 months and at that rate, we are going to have anywhere from 300 million to 1 trillion above 10 round magazines sold to the public where the normal market would have been maybe 10 million.

We tend to focus on ARs, but there are other guns too. Once someone has an few ARs, the tend to look at other guns as well, like the AKs- for instance.

I heard that right now Americans own around 3 million ARs, give us another 6 months and I could seem that number double.

Bottom line is we not only are gong to win, but we will be stronger than ever after this fiasco happens.

Obama is not our friend, but he isn't stupid. This is why he is letting Joe Biden lead things because when this all blows apart, Joe Biden will jump on the sword just like Hillary did.

Nicki

bubbapug1
01-07-2013, 1:05 AM
I'm on the young side (I'm 34) and here's what I've seen in my life.
1) AWB passed in '94, AWB sunsetted in '04 due to our concentrated lobbying efforts to see it die.
2) In California SB23 was passed in 2000 and in 2006 I bought my first two AR-15 lowers due to lawsuits and effective lobbying.
3) For hundreds of years we never knew what the 2nd amendment meant, then in '08 we finally got an individual right to keep and bear arms.

We have many, many more battles to fight in defense of our freedoms, some of these we may not win but from what I can see we are in a much better spot than when I started my adult life-especially in California.

There's a lot of pessimism on this thread, almost as if people have given up already. If we start believing that then the anti-2A forces have already won and we may as well just turn in our firearms already.

Consider this:
1) We have > 40 pro-gun R's in the Senate and several pro-gun D's there as well. Chances are anything vaguely oppressive will be filibustered and that's assuming legislation even gets to the floor of the chamber.
2) The VAST majority of R's in House are pro-gun as well as pro-gun D's. That's also assuming a vote can be brought to the floor.
3) Heller will be a major roadblock to any new gun bans.

Like someone else on this thread said, being overly pessimistic is just as bad as being overoptimistic because we still need to KEEP THE PRESSURE on our elected representatives and support groups like the NRA and CalGuns-they will be critical to getting us through this rough patch. Remember, this might be a prolonged storm but if we stand together shoulder to shoulder we should be able to combat the bull charging our way.

-Greg

I hope your math is correct...very good post btw


EDIT: There are only 32 openly pro gun senators now serving. Not enough to even filibuster a gun bill. You math is sketchy.

SwissFluCase
01-07-2013, 1:21 AM
What's wrong with lots of these people on this string Already throwing in the towel. That's the problem people are so weak and so quick to throw in the towel or think automaticly that we are going to get certain types of arms banned or restricted. What's wrong with you people support not only the NRA but other pro gun groups and organize people and encourage them to make noise and write letters and emails . C'mon people lets sounds the trumpets and rally and just give in and of roll over. Yes we have a fight on our hands but we need to get suited and booted and fight these Goons. Sorry if I'm venting but I'm sick and tired of people wanting to already compromise wih the unknown. Ughhhh

Agreed. We hold all of the cards in this game. If we lose it will be because *we* screw up, not because they have popular support.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

EricSF
01-07-2013, 4:57 AM
I heard that right now Americans own around 3 million ARs, give us another 6 months and I could seem that number double.
Nicki[/QUOTE]

Larry Vickers estimates at least 30 million ARs are owned

DCVR
01-07-2013, 6:00 AM
It's like Obama's 9/11

"Gun Owner" is the new muslim
"EBR" is the new WMD
AWB is the new Patriot Act
"War on 2A" is the new War on Terror

Jack L
01-07-2013, 7:42 AM
The anti's will be overwhelmed by pro gun politicians backed by all of us. Their heads will spin because they thought they were on top of this issue. Not so. If anything ever passes it will take a long time to even get the smallest of changes passed. The republicans are pissed off they got hammered on the last few deals so they are not going to give in to any anti gun BS.

guns4life
01-07-2013, 8:00 AM
"Gun Owner" is the new muslim
"EBR" is the new WMD
AWB is the new Patriot Act
"War on 2A" is the new War on Terror



No, it's not.

Dantedamean
01-07-2013, 8:41 AM
Interesting, I wonder if Obama is going to try and do an executive order for some type of gun control and only give a few months for registration before it goes into effect.

tcrpe
01-07-2013, 8:56 AM
Interesting, I wonder if Obama is going to try and do an executive order for some type of gun control and only give a few months for registration before it goes into effect.

Legislation

Executive Orders

New regulations

RMikeL
01-07-2013, 3:42 PM
I gotta believe that legacy media editors and urban district legislators have no contact with firearms and owners. They just have no idea how widespread ownership is in 2013 and how much opposition there will be to bills that restrict armed self defense.

Mike

X-NewYawker
01-07-2013, 4:55 PM
Okay. You're a pro gun Republican in congress. You're running for re-elaction in 2014. What do the Dems run against you? TV ads with the faces of the CT first graders. Dead. because of what YOU believe in.

yeah. They'll all stand strong for us.

tcrpe
01-07-2013, 4:58 PM
Okay. You're a pro gun Republican in congress. You're running for re-elaction in 2014. What do the Dems run against you? TV ads with the faces of the CT first graders. Dead. because of what YOU believe in.

yeah. They'll all stand strong for us.

You've posted exactly what I've been thinking.

Dantedamean
01-07-2013, 5:00 PM
Okay. You're a pro gun Republican in congress. You're running for re-elaction in 2014. What do the Dems run against you? TV ads with the faces of the CT first graders. Dead. because of what YOU believe in.

yeah. They'll all stand strong for us.

Ya this is what I've been worried about as well. Republicans have become too unpredictable recently, we can't be 100% that these new bills will fail.

SWalt
01-07-2013, 8:50 PM
Okay. You're a pro gun Republican in congress. You're running for re-elaction in 2014. What do the Dems run against you? TV ads with the faces of the CT first graders. Dead. because of what YOU believe in.

yeah. They'll all stand strong for us.

ANY politician who ran an ad with dead children on it would face such a firestorm of bad publicity they would have to retract it with a huge apology. And more than likely lose the race. A politician would be a complete idiot to run such an ad.

tcrpe
01-07-2013, 8:52 PM
ANY politician who ran an ad with dead children on it would face such a firestorm of bad publicity they would have to retract it with a huge apology. And more than likely lose the race. A politician would be a complete idiot to run such an ad.

You are about to be plastered with such photos, and they will be unanimously defended by the MSM.

odysseus
01-07-2013, 8:54 PM
ANY politician who ran an ad with dead children on it would face such a firestorm of bad publicity they would have to retract it with a huge apology. And more than likely lose the race. A politician would be a complete idiot to run such an ad.

You are not getting the point. They don't have to run an ad "with dead children on it". Of course not. They just will mention the CT incident with flashes of news headlines and people crying, and say you are aiding the culture of gun violence (of course this is erroneous). The more vague and emotional, the better.

smle-man
01-07-2013, 9:04 PM
The left's goal is to make firearms ownership as socially unacceptable as cigarettes are. Yes there are folks who still smoke but for the most part in many places they are outcasts. That will be firearms owners and users in another 25 years. My youngest son (19) refuses to join the NRA or let me sign him up because of the way it is viewed by many people of his age and this from a guy who owns a shotgun and enjoys shooting with his old man. For his generation in suburban Los Angeles the NRA is the enemy of the people.

jdouglas
01-07-2013, 9:10 PM
The left's goal is to make firearms ownership as socially unacceptable as cigarettes are. Yes there are folks who still smoke but for the most part in many places they are outcasts. That will be firearms owners and users in another 25 years. My youngest son (19) refuses to join the NRA or let me sign him up because of the way it is viewed by many people of his age and this from a guy who owns a shotgun and enjoys shooting with his old man. For his generation in suburban Los Angeles the NRA is the enemy of the people.
I might wear an NRA shirt at college, if I wasn't afraid of a sudden drop in my normally good grades. :-D Being part of the NRA is :cool:. Maybe it's because sometimes I do kind of like being contrary and different...

odysseus
01-07-2013, 9:47 PM
Sadly this is close to the truth. However while there are so many erroneously indoctrinated and socially fearful youth who are as you describe, I am warmed a bit by a surge in younger people coming into gun culture and seeing the truth in the matter, and getting into shooting sports and understanding RKBA.

The left's goal is to make firearms ownership as socially unacceptable as cigarettes are. Yes there are folks who still smoke but for the most part in many places they are outcasts. That will be firearms owners and users in another 25 years. My youngest son (19) refuses to join the NRA or let me sign him up because of the way it is viewed by many people of his age and this from a guy who owns a shotgun and enjoys shooting with his old man. For his generation in suburban Los Angeles the NRA is the enemy of the people.

SWalt
01-07-2013, 9:58 PM
You are about to be plastered with such photos, and they will be unanimously defended by the MSM.

I don't think so,they won't release those photos for years, if ever. None of the parents would stand for it.

trashman
01-07-2013, 9:58 PM
The left's goal is to make firearms ownership as socially unacceptable as cigarettes are.

A very astute observation. I would only narrow your definition of "left" to "progressive"; I still believe that pro-gun sensibilities are widely acceptable to a lot of folks across the political spectrum and this is my personal experience as well.

But now that outright bans and confiscations are off the table thanks to Heller et al, the fight is focused on making ownership taboo for casual/newbie owners, because that is what will kill the sport in the long term.

--neill

socalblue
01-07-2013, 10:00 PM
By far the biggest risk is at the state level. CA, NY, CT, MA to name a few could pass some very damaging legislation that could take years to fix.

I would think it's pretty clear that Obama will use executive orders to stop imports & change regulations not otherwise affected by Federal statute. These alone could have a very negative impact & may not allow an easy path to court action.

DCVR
01-07-2013, 10:07 PM
No, it's not.

Sadly, when I tell some of my friends/colleagues I own an AR15 rifle, they look at me like I admitted pre-meditated terrorism.

I feel like my rights are being threatened and I am being outcast in a negative light... just like muslims were after 9/11

I feel like the government is illegitimately using the EBR 'assault weapon' as a fear-mongering buzzword as a means to advance an anti-2A agenda... just like WMD was used to falsely 'justify' an illegitimate Iraq War

Both instances, the government exploited tragic events to manipulate people's emotions to satisfay a selfish ulterior motive. It feels like the same algebraic equation, just using different variables.

SWalt
01-07-2013, 10:25 PM
You are not getting the point. They don't have to run an ad "with dead children on it". Of course not. They just will mention the CT incident with flashes of news headlines and people crying, and say you are aiding the culture of gun violence (of course this is erroneous). The more vague and emotional, the better.

I don't doubt that, but that will be 2 years from now when peoples emotions are not raw. Even today, not even a month after peoples views of gun control are moderating and almost back to where they were before CT. Time will tell, we'll see what the voters say.

2Fowl
01-07-2013, 10:30 PM
What's wrong with lots of these people on this string Already throwing in the towel. That's the problem people are so weak and so quick to throw in the towel or think automaticly that we are going to get certain types of arms banned or restricted. What's wrong with you people support not only the NRA but other pro gun groups and organize people and encourage them to make noise and write letters and emails . C'mon people lets sounds the trumpets and rally and just give in and of roll over. Yes we have a fight on our hands but we need to get suited and booted and fight these Goons. Sorry if I'm venting but I'm sick and tired of people wanting to already compromise wih the unknown. Ughhhh

:79: I'll NEVER give up.... I hope to see everyone at the Capital on the 19th @ high noon....:patriot:

2Fowl

nicki
01-07-2013, 10:32 PM
Okay. You're a pro gun Republican in congress. You're running for re-elaction in 2014. What do the Dems run against you? TV ads with the faces of the CT first graders. Dead. because of what YOU believe in.

yeah. They'll all stand strong for us.

They actually did that in 2004 and the Dems were shocked when those Republicans won re-election.

What the Republicans need to do is not only say no to the gun bans, but come up with alternatives that address the problems with our mental health system and various medications and their side effects.

The real spotlight should be on the pharmacy industry, but of course since they are large advertisers, bet you won't see prime time news stories about people wacking out on prescription meds.

Nicki

PEBKAC
01-07-2013, 11:34 PM
Maybe I'm over positive but I was under the impression the Republicans controlled the house, and any legislation had to go through both to get anywhere.

Like, am I the only one under the impression that regardless of all the bluster this is all going to hit a brick wall federally so long as we make sure those house republicans know to whom they answer, and that those to whom they answer do not forgive, as happened in 1994?

Am I just crazy optimistic here?

socalbud
01-08-2013, 2:24 AM
The left's goal is to make firearms ownership as socially unacceptable as cigarettes are. Yes there are folks who still smoke but for the most part in many places they are outcasts. That will be firearms owners and users in another 25 years. My youngest son (19) refuses to join the NRA or let me sign him up because of the way it is viewed by many people of his age and this from a guy who owns a shotgun and enjoys shooting with his old man. For his generation in suburban Los Angeles the NRA is the enemy of the people.

Do not tell me dip is going to be socially unacceptable. Everybody loves sitting by a guy with a bottle of brown spit.

Sent via tapatalk 2

Wrangler John
01-08-2013, 3:50 AM
"Gun Owner" is the new muslim
"EBR" is the new WMD
AWB is the new Patriot Act
"War on 2A" is the new War on Terror

You forgot that liberal/socialist legislators bent on depriving us of life (Obamacare), liberty and property are the new terrorists, legislative terrorists.