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View Full Version : two types of people, thinkers and robots


dieselpower
01-05-2013, 5:56 AM
I had a conversation with a friend who suggested checking out a youtube channel called Southernpreper. I am sure many of you follow this guy. I viewed several videos and thought he had some great ideas and started following him.

At some point, as many youtubeers do, he decided that making money off youtube was more important then putting out quality information...or so I thought.

Why I thought this was simple, he started (and still does) make videos of a fantasy only seen in Hollywood staring Matt Damon, or Tom Cruise. I wrongfully figured he was putting out this information to gain the "video-game" boys as a way of making money.

Then "combat veterans" started arguing with me over my comments saying I didnt understand the battlefield. That's where I realized I was wrong, it wasnt greed fueling these idiotic videos, it was ignorance, ego and a failure to comprehend real life.

The last one, and the one which caused me to block and delete several people from my list of contacts, was about setting trip wires around your camp or homestead after a SHTF, or Grid-down world... the WROL lifestyle. These would set off flares to warn of approaching threats.

I had several marines tell me they used to do it all the time "in the sand box". I had Army guys telling me the same thing. They were trained on this and its a valid security device.

I tried to explain the difference between what we do in war, as a member of the military, and what a civilian needs to do to survive. I tried to play on reason and get them to toss out the notion that they are supported by a country in a battlefield where dieing for the cause was just part of the life and think about life as a civilian where your family needs you.

I tried to explain if you are that worried about being discovered, the freaking LAST thing you want to do is announce "Hey, you found me" by setting off a freaking flare.... It all fell on deaf ears.

In a SHTF, Grid down, WROL world...you are the prey, not the predator. If you are part of a unit, in a civil war situation, sure its probably ok to do this as long as you are not part of a gorilla unit where discovery is not wise. Even then announcing to your enemy, that they have found a camp is probably the stupidest thing anyone could do outside of a war time environment where you are the guy no one wants to run into.

The military teaches many thing few of which are useful to a civilian in a SHTF world. Many things will simply get you killed.

When you prep and plan, be a thinker, not a robot. Don't do things because some guy told you in was good to do. Ask why? Place yourself into the proper setting. This is critical. Put on the other guys shoe... meaning which side of the fight are you on...

speedrrracer
01-05-2013, 9:21 AM
When you told them that you thought discovery was too high a price to pay, what options did you offer to solve the problem (I presume the issue is notification of a perimeter breach?) ?

I'm not taking sides -- land-based scenarios are not very meaningful to me, so I often don't delve into them. Just curious, asking questions.

If you've got your land, you and your family are safe in your home, wouldn't you want to be woken up before the gang of bad guys is on your doorstep? I'm thinking of the old agage, "Forewarned is forearmed."

Totally agree that discovery is a high price, but you can't watch your 360 24/7/365 -- you have to sleep sometime. Having a gang of bad guys on your property AND giving them the element of surprise (you don't know they are there, coz you're sleeping) is a very high price to pay, too.

What alternatives do you see?

GrizzlyGuy
01-05-2013, 9:29 AM
Totally agree that discovery is a high price, but you can't watch your 360 24/7/365 -- you have to sleep sometime. Having a gang of bad guys on your property AND giving them the element of surprise (you don't know they are there, coz you're sleeping) is a very high price to pay, too.

What alternatives do you see?

Recommended by Rawles: Dakota Alert (MURS for longer range) (http://www.dakotaalert.com/catb2b1/index.php?cPath=36)

The el-cheapo ChiCom HT's such as the Baofeng UV 5RA's (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009MAKWC0/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00) ($44 on Amazon) also cover that frequency range so you can use them as alert receivers, rather than pay $110 for the MURS-only HT sold by DakotaAlert.

dieselpower
01-05-2013, 10:59 AM
Typing on an iphone forgive me for this.

The only thing a flare does for parimeter security is tell the night traveler they found or stumbled across something GUARDED.

Lets forget wild life and authority units who will just nuke you from orbit. Who is going to be poking around at night and do you want them knowing they found something of value? Do you want them to know you know?

The only situation other than war time patrol on rest where a flare parimeter should be used is as a diversion from where you really are. To draw attention AWAY from you so you can escape.

There is no valid use of a flare parimeter for a civilian in a survival situation. You are better off to go without when camping or using descret sognals for a homested

bohoki
01-05-2013, 11:53 AM
there are 2 types of people those that like adventure time and those that haven't seen adventure time

http://media.avclub.com/images/414/414747/16x9/627.jpg

cdtx2001
01-05-2013, 3:27 PM
No flares.. nobody here but spiders and weeds......

dieselpower
01-05-2013, 5:10 PM
No flares.. nobody here but spiders and weeds......

bingo... no reason to scream "I'm here! Come rape me" to whom ever is passing by. :D

That's not really my point for this thread, I can dis many of Southernprepers vids for logic reasons.

The point I am trying to make is some people no matter how well trained just don't get it. They are like robots or computers just running a set of instructions without care for the outcome... without a tactical bone in their body...yet they served in the military, saw combat and even have MOS that dictate they SHOULD be able to figure this stuff out.

One of the guys was a 12 year ground pounding Grunt. Multiple tours in combat....but he can not fathom why his 2006 Suburban weighted down with guns, ammo, food and his FAMILY isnt going to bash through any type of road block :facepalm:

kb58
01-05-2013, 5:28 PM
... When you prep and plan, be a thinker, not a robot. Don't do things because some guy told you in was good to do. Ask why? Place yourself into the proper setting. This is critical. Put on the other guys shoe... meaning which side of the fight are you on...
Some of the worst and most dilusional thinking is on survivalist forums... those guys will only kick butt in Fantasy Land.

KevinB
01-05-2013, 6:00 PM
Perhaps one should think in situational awareness terms. What may work for you isn't going to work for me.

At my place when people get to a place I'm going to treat them as if they mean to do me or my family harm. That distance or buffer will be hugely different from setting to setting depending where you are calling home.

Everyone one should have at least a couple of buffer layers and security levels.

I'm the last home at the end of a long road with neighbors. We are all of the same mind set.

We have a combination of low and high tech that keep our homes safe now. We can and will adjust as necessary.

Flares, I don't think so, good way to burn up half the country side for about 6 months of the year.

dirty_530
01-05-2013, 9:23 PM
Some of the worst and most dilusional thinking is on survivalist forums... those guys will only kick butt in Fantasy Land.

YUP!

OIFVet03
01-05-2013, 9:53 PM
You need to be a thinker. Only use the tripflares if you need them. I probably wouldn't use them in a situation like that. I would probably use booby traps instead. I would set traps around the house. It would be fairly quiet and people won't be able to see it for miles.

dieselpower
01-06-2013, 7:27 AM
even if you are out in the middle of nowhere protecting your homestead...trip flares are going to do nothing more then tell you something hit a wire...rabbit, fox, yot, deer, mouse, man, homeless person, looter, lost child... you are clueless as to what did it.

What you have now done is tell that person they found something of value. If its a lost homeless person in need of help, they possibly found help...or you drilling them with lead cuz you are too scared to ask a question of the thing that tripped your defenses.

If its someone with evil intentions they just got the upper hand on you. You no long control the situation nor do you have ANY useful information other then someone tripped the wire.

Sure a mindless zombie is going to keep coming forward... REALITY.... a looting unit will hold down Take up a defensive position and see what comes next. If they have to retreat, they will run away to fight another day...and you can expect that day to come soon and with more force then you can possibly fend off. If you go out to investigate what tripped the flare, you are dead, your family is now defenseless or less offensive if there are others who can offer a defense to the looting force. A 4 man team of looters can dwindle a group of 20 in less then a month. Everyday they snipe at targets of opportunity until the homestead is so defenseless they residents have to surrender. Its a siege situation. Once your four corners are pinned down, you are trapped.

I agree, a security perimeter around your home is required to defend yourself. But a trip flare system isnt a good one at all.

You are making camp out in the wilderness... same thing. How far are you setting these flares? Whats the point? What is the outcome of a flare going off? What if its an animal, what if its another wandering person and family...whats the outcome if its a group of people who mean to do you harm..what is the net result of announcing to them they found something of value in the general area.

You are fleeing from an opposing force. Since its not a force you can over come and need to flee from it...whats the point of telling it where you are? That they have found you?

Trip flares for perimeter security for a civilian group is nonsense. Stupid and will get you or your loved ones killed.

Now if I was in charge of a group of Marauders, and we were bedding down for the night, I would set a perimeter (even flares if that's all I had), because as soon as the flare goes off, my squad is murdering anything in that area. Kill first, loot after. It's called ETWD... Everything That Way Dies... That group isnt afraid of stumbling onto another group. That is how it gets supply, but taking from others. If my group of marauders trip a flare they will be trained to go into defensive positions and lay in wait. Look, listen then react with aggression to whatever comes. If nothing comes, If nothing is heard fleeing the area then the area is a hot zone where the prey is now in a defensive position. Something worth defending is close by...SCORE!!! We found a resupply point!

Night vision and thermal imaging on at all times while moving at night. He who owns the dark owns the area. Anyone moving at night without night vision of some kind is an idiot.


BUT once again... this thread was to be about people not thinking reality and thinking about the fantasy world or what was done in the military.

another one of Southernprepers fails is the basics of a convoy...all aboard the fail boat. I love when he says something like, "...if all you have is a small car, then use it, but you can't break through any road blocks..." As if any civilian based vehicle could be outfitted to break a road block...:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: They ONLY thing that is breaking through a road block is an over powering force who attacks the road block itself. A convoy can't do that.

And for that matter the most dangerous road block to face is 4 to 8 guys with a 2x4 placed across the road with saw horses and plastic sign that says, STOP. If you don't understand why this is... then again you fail to understand SHTF life.

Neuvik
01-06-2013, 9:06 AM
I dunno if flares would be a good idea, but it depends on your local. Tins can, or something to make a racket might be nice (hopefully not much wind) if you need a warning.

Other than that, dogs, and ducks make a lot of racket if someone is near. Maybe tactical dog houses, or duck coops would be in order.

There are some sensory fences that will sound an electronic alarm if someone passes through. They simply use mutual inductance, and if a person with metal passes through they generate a voltage. Then the alarm sounds.

Chaparral
01-06-2013, 9:25 AM
Two things;

1) A lot of .mil folks somehow cant imagine a world where air support and resupply is not gonna happen. Maybe they've never been in a situation where they're on their own in a hostile environment? I dont really know other than that it's hard to get through their thick skulls.

2) I'd prefer any intrusion alarm in my AO to be detectible by me and mine only. Tripwires, geophones, 940nm+ lasers and the appropriate photodiodes...whatever. Since I don't want them killed and eaten, my dogs can bark after the shooting has started.

11HE9
01-06-2013, 8:50 PM
I'd prefer any intrusion alarm in my AO to be detectible by me and mine only....

Since I don't want them killed and eaten, my dogs can bark after the shooting has started.

My dogs will give a low growl if they hear something at night, this will wake me up in a second (normally, I can sleep through a train wreck). I will always have a dog in the house, if it's just for this reason alone.

If I'm setting tripwires... things have gotten real bad, and I will not be putting out flares.

spy-d
02-14-2013, 6:45 PM
Give a good foxhole with good cover and un-disterbed terain any day.
If they can't find me, They can't find me, they Can't kill or rob me

Shhhh... Don't tell anyone that I am hiding in the cabin next to you.

Sunday
03-04-2013, 8:51 AM
At least 53% of the voting age people in this country fit into the robot part!!!

kb58
03-04-2013, 3:48 PM
It's funny how everytime this topic comes up, EVERYONE is a "thinker." Uh huh.

Stan08
03-04-2013, 5:04 PM
Agreed, if you are holding a position and your one and only means of intrusion detection are trip flares then it is a poorly defended position; you let them get too close already.

I teach many things from my military education but they each have their time and place. Common sense goes a long way too.

frigginchi
03-05-2013, 4:47 AM
I'm making a tiger pit.

bigguns85
03-06-2013, 3:33 AM
I'm making a tiger pit.

+1 for awsomeness!:43: remeber not to feed them. You can always make trained pack of dogs give them spiked body armor and unleash them!