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nicki
01-04-2013, 2:07 PM
Guns, accessories and ammo are in short supply and prices are rising because gun owners have the wrong mindset.

Our problem stems from the following, as individuals, many of us operate from a "me" mindset and that is a serious weakness that will cost us our rights.

Then constitution doesn't start of with "Me the people", it starts of with "We the People".

Many of us want perfect plans and if any plan comes along, we easily find faults with the plan and as such, have excuses not to take any actions.

When we make the mind shift from "me" to "we" with gun rights, then our movement will become far more effective.

And carrying that mindset to the bill of rights, it means that we protect, defend and work to restore the rest of the bill of rights also because that gives us even more credibility.

Nicki

Rumline
01-04-2013, 2:10 PM
You have identified what you see as a problem with the mindset of many gun owners. What do you want people to do differently? Your fifth line is more vague than AB962.

NotEnufGarage
01-04-2013, 3:12 PM
Gun rights and peoples entrepenurial instincts are quite different thing.

You proceed from a premise of "fairness".

The most important thing my mother ever taught me was that nobody ever said life is fair.

I guess your mother failed to teach this to you.

The sooner you learn it, the happier you'll be.

Atlantaboi2012
01-04-2013, 3:36 PM
The problem is all those middle and upper class classed folks living in their safe gated communities are receiving all their information on the tv. Anything that threatens their way of life gets them paranoid and fearful. Alot of my peers and myself grew up with nothing so we look at life as if whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen regardless... Had these folks not gone out there panicking , it wouldnt have caused so much ruckus. Panic buying if anything shows cowardice... must remain calm under fire

Moonshine
01-04-2013, 3:46 PM
This happened in 1989, than again in 1994, and again in 1999. Now it's happening all over again but this time it's different: the 2nd amendment itself is at threat. The danger our gun laws could soon resemble those of Europe is VERY REAL.

stix213
01-04-2013, 3:53 PM
The panic buying is a classic example of "Prisoner's Dilemma."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma

If everyone stops panic buying, then prices will remain low and product will remain available for anyone who needs it as normal. But if you're the only one NOT panic buying then you may be the only one who has no access to ammo or any guns you may not already have, and cannot purchase later because shelves are bare. So there is little benefit to not panic buy yourself, because the risk is too great that others will still panic buy, and the reward too little if you do not even if no one else does either. So everyone panic buys who thinks they will need anything.

Moonshine
01-04-2013, 4:14 PM
Btw, panic buying also changes the dynamics... When a handful of people have an AR-15 like in 1994 its easy to get a ban... But when ALOT of people have an AR-15 that's a whole different story.

RMP91
01-04-2013, 4:50 PM
Btw, panic buying also changes the dynamics... When a handful of people have an AR-15 like in 1994 its easy to get a ban... But when ALOT of people have an AR-15 that's a whole different story.

Which is precisely why this new AWB and hi-cap ban will not go beyond Committee in either House of Congress unless another major mass shooting occurs... There would be far too many pissed off gun owners in 2014, I don't think the Dems want a repeat of 1994 where the AWB's passage was a major factor in their losing their majorities in Congress. Many liberals will deny that the AWB had anything to do with it, but they learned that they cannot touch Gun Control unless something like Aurora and Newtown happen and they have the 2-3 week political cover that the media gives them...

Their chances of passing something as extreme as AWB 2.0 and the Hi-Cap ban ride almost solely on whether not another Newtown/Aurora-style massacre takes place between now and the end of the month... It's almost as if they secretly pray for another massacre to occur before public opinion for a ban goes back to pre-Newtown levels (it's almost there).

If that happens, there will be NO stopping them. Not even the combined might of the NRA/FPC/CGF/SAF and other Pro-2A organizations would be able since able to stem the tide of outrage and anger towards innocent gun owners. They demonized us as a whole for the acts of a few mentally ill young men, and each time they got closer in turning their words of hatred and ignorance into violent action. You've seen it come from the likes of the antis before, the ones that call for the murder of all NRA members and their innocent friends, family and associates... I fear that the next time something like this happens (and it will... I just don't know when or where and that's the scary part), that the cries for the deaths of all gun owners and their families will become acceptable, if not widespread... Just pray to Almighty God that the crazies stay inside where they belong during that time (and ever after for that matter)...

Moonshine
01-04-2013, 4:58 PM
I'm going to tell you what will happen: Feinstein's bill is DOA in the senate and the house. Democrat senators from red states who won by a 1% margin aren't going to give up their seats for an 80 year old has been who has the safest seat in the senate and can do anything she wants.

After losing big to Democrats on the fiscal cliff deal, the GOP majority in the house isn't going to throw the 2nd amendment off the cliff.

There are politicians who know this and that's why you see little bills that address bite sized issues like Hi-caps. When DiFi doesn't get her way expect Hollywood and everyone to whine and one of the authors of these little bills come step up as the hero who did something like a 10 year hi cap ban or something similar to the 1994 ban with no teeth.

OneAvgWhiteGuy
01-04-2013, 5:21 PM
I seriously doubt anyone is praying for another Newtown type massacre, regardless of where they stand on gun control.

RMP91
01-04-2013, 5:28 PM
I seriously doubt anyone is praying for another Newtown type massacre, regardless of where they stand on gun control.

I agree, but you get my point. Their success in passing gun control almost entirely depends on whether or not another mass shooting happens before public opinion goes back to pre-Newtown levels...

Rumline
01-04-2013, 5:47 PM
I seriously doubt anyone is praying for another Newtown type massacre, regardless of where they stand on gun control.
Considering the swiftness and voracity of the anti-gunner's rhetoric and media full-court press following Sandy Hook, (as in the preliminary news had BARELY come in) it seems like it was juuuust the crisis they'd been waiting for. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were "wishing" for an excuse to whip up the panic crusade, say, right in time for Biden's "comprehensive study of the issues" to be published.

Moonshine
01-04-2013, 5:56 PM
Another Newton type massacre just went up in likelihood because of the power given to Lanza. With a single act he completely changed the political landscape and our society. He has been immortalized as a part of our national history (even if in infamy). The coroner who handled his remains is under investigation because she let her husband see the body. Sickening.

The reason sociopaths engage in this type of mass shooting is for attention... And when this level of fame is awarded one can expect schools now to top malls in terms of where nut cases will go.

RileyBean
01-04-2013, 6:01 PM
Guns, accessories and ammo are in short supply and prices are rising because gun owners have the wrong mindset.

Our problem stems from the following, as individuals, many of us operate from a "me" mindset and that is a serious weakness that will cost us our rights.

Then constitution doesn't start of with "Me the people", it starts of with "We the People".

Many of us want perfect plans and if any plan comes along, we easily find faults with the plan and as such, have excuses not to take any actions.

When we make the mind shift from "me" to "we" with gun rights, then our movement will become far more effective.

And carrying that mindset to the bill of rights, it means that we protect, defend and work to restore the rest of the bill of rights also because that gives us even more credibility.

Nicki

WOW!!! The first glimps of sanity I've seen here yet.

dave_cg
01-04-2013, 6:29 PM
I seriously doubt anyone is praying for another Newtown type massacre, regardless of where they stand on gun control.

No, they want to export it to Mexico. Or haven't you followed Fast and Furious?

nicki
01-04-2013, 11:07 PM
Gun rights and peoples entrepenurial instincts are quite different thing.

You proceed from a premise of "fairness".

The most important thing my mother ever taught me was that nobody ever said life is fair.

I guess your mother failed to teach this to you.

The sooner you learn it, the happier you'll be.

My Mom did teach me that life is not fair, but we still should strive for fairness and justice because that is the morally right thing to do.

Those are the values that have propelled all human rights movements.

There are numerous pther things my mom taught me, like compassion, sympathy for those less fortunate than you and that we are all God's children regardless of who we are and we are all loved.;)

But I didn't start the thread about "fairness", I started because as a whole the gun movement has a "me centric" mindset versus a "we centric mindset", as such, in many ways we are our own worse enemies.

We see people lining up to clean out guns and ammo at the gun shows, but do we see the same people go and line up at the NRA or other gun rights groups that are looking for help.

Right now gun owners are letting their "fear" of a gun ban drive their actions, this is because most have a "me centric" attitude on this.

If gun owners operated on a "We centric mindset", then their "fear" would empower them to take action to make sure we don't get a gun ban and if by some reason we do, it will be an action that the supporters of the gun ban will deeply regret.

If Gun Owners were operating from a "We mindset", the NRA would have at least 40 milion members and those members would be 10X more active on average than the current ones overall.

I have my foot in two communities, as such, I see differences.

If the Gun community was as "We centric" for gun rights as the Gay community is gay rights, we would be complaining about the cost of feeding our full auto ARs.

Nicki

Stockton
01-04-2013, 11:33 PM
Differences are big but do correlate. I think the mindset has to be collective but only from a major or epic moment. I'm not sure of what point in gay rights that it happened but there was a straw that broke. The one that brings it all together. Maybe that straw for gun rights has not been broken yet for the "we" mindset to be triggered on the level you are referring to.

Moonshine
01-05-2013, 12:26 AM
Look we all know the problem is the Feds and gun owners are overlooking the REAL assault weapon in the room... The one that's flooding our streets daily!

That's right I'm talking about the phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.

How many times must we say "it's just what you see pal" before people wake up and see the problem!??!

Carnivore
01-05-2013, 1:12 AM
I seriously doubt anyone is praying for another Newtown type massacre, regardless of where they stand on gun control.

BET ME!!! Those animals in the Senate are having wet dreams over another one. People like Piers Morgan wake up in the morning praying there is another mass shooting so they can either get ratings or more control. To them they are just acceptable losses for the greater good. If any of them had a soul they would be looking to do something that would actually work.

OneAvgWhiteGuy
01-05-2013, 2:18 AM
BET ME!!! Those animals in the Senate are having wet dreams over another one. People like Piers Morgan wake up in the morning praying there is another mass shooting so they can either get ratings or more control. To them they are just acceptable losses for the greater good. If any of them had a soul they would be looking to do something that would actually work.

Like I said, I doubt it.

It's akin to gun owners secretly wishing for a rash of mass stabbings so people would focus on knives instead of guns. Is that the case? I would hope not.

CDFingers
01-05-2013, 4:54 AM
We the People in California are figuring it out, and I'll tell you why.

While each is quite terrible, each carnage-du-jour distracts us from the real facts: in California we bought more guns last year than ever, and we're killing fewer of ourselves at the same time. Clearly, we seem to be figuring it out.

While it is foolish to connect "more guns" with "fewer deaths" without all kinds of corroboration, we can conclude that us buying more guns does not necessarily correlate to more deaths.

It appears that gun laws have done nothing. It appears they are irrelevant when The People understand how to own and use guns. We all know death may come equally from a flintlock pistol or a .50 BMG.

I would use this type of information to argue for repealing many California gun laws. We're figuring it out.

CDFingers

IXMM
01-05-2013, 7:40 AM
We see people lining up to clean out guns and ammo at the gun shows, but do we see the same people go and line up at the NRA or other gun rights groups that are looking for help.

Right now gun owners are letting their "fear" of a gun ban drive their actions, this is because most have a "me centric" attitude on this.

If gun owners operated on a "We centric mindset", then their "fear" would empower them to take action to make sure we don't get a gun ban and if by some reason we do, it will be an action that the supporters of the gun ban will deeply regret.

If Gun Owners were operating from a "We mindset", the NRA would have at least 40 milion members and those members would be 10X more active on average than the current ones overall.

I have my foot in two communities, as such, I see differences.

If the Gun community was as "We centric" for gun rights as the Gay community is gay rights, we would be complaining about the cost of feeding our full auto ARs.

Nicki

alot of the panic buyers are first timers, newbies who just came in the door. hopefully with time and educations, they will realize there's bigger picture and join the ranks for our rights.

BBJohnnyT
01-05-2013, 8:41 AM
IMO, if every single person, gun newbie and veteran, who panic bought in anticipation of some future gun ban instead took that money and joined/donated it to the NRA, all the coming anti-gun legislation would be like shooting spitwads at an aircraft carrier.

BayAreaScott
01-05-2013, 9:14 AM
I'm confused by the original post. "We" is comprised of more than one "Me". This site and others like it are the demonstrative "We". The current climate has increased NRA membership like they have never seen before, increased membership in this and other sites, galvanized and energized a large majority of the country behind the simple message of "No, you won't take our weapons away so get over it".

If anyone truly believes that sometime in this year there will be house to house searches for all the black ugly guns they should probably take another look. Sure, DiFi and others will try. Bills will be presented, debates will be held, talking heads will talk, but in the end the collective "We" that is comprised of a lot of "Me" will present a pretty formidable foe.

scarville
01-05-2013, 9:14 AM
Fortunately, I did all my panic buying before the panic. :laugh:

RileyBean
01-05-2013, 9:37 AM
My Mom did teach me that life is not fair, but we still should strive for fairness and justice because that is the morally right thing to do.

Those are the values that have propelled all human rights movements.

There are numerous pther things my mom taught me, like compassion, sympathy for those less fortunate than you and that we are all God's children regardless of who we are and we are all loved.;)

But I didn't start the thread about "fairness", I started because as a whole the gun movement has a "me centric" mindset versus a "we centric mindset", as such, in many ways we are our own worse enemies.

We see people lining up to clean out guns and ammo at the gun shows, but do we see the same people go and line up at the NRA or other gun rights groups that are looking for help.

Right now gun owners are letting their "fear" of a gun ban drive their actions, this is because most have a "me centric" attitude on this.

If gun owners operated on a "We centric mindset", then their "fear" would empower them to take action to make sure we don't get a gun ban and if by some reason we do, it will be an action that the supporters of the gun ban will deeply regret.

If Gun Owners were operating from a "We mindset", the NRA would have at least 40 milion members and those members would be 10X more active on average than the current ones overall.

I have my foot in two communities, as such, I see differences.

If the Gun community was as "We centric" for gun rights as the Gay community is gay rights, we would be complaining about the cost of feeding our full auto ARs.

Nicki

Yep. Someone here (in another post) said "every man for himself". That common mindset of most here certainly does more to harm 2A than it will ever help.

Window_Seat
01-05-2013, 1:48 PM
I will probably get bashed for saying this (again), but [A] very significant answer is gun owners voting pro-RKBA in the next elections.

I volunteered at a gunshow last August, and I cannot tell you how many gun owners approached me and said "I am not voting because MY VOTE DON'T COUNT". They were pissed off, so their answer to being pissed off was to NOT go the polls, and that was going to solve EVERYTHING. Now they can CERTAINLY take the initiative to go out and buy another gun or two.

The end result of that is we have a super-majority of (D)s and a likely simple majority of rabid haters of our Constitution in both chambers of the California Legislature, which means that WE ARE THE TOP MENU ITEMS.

The other big problem is that too many NRA members have called and asked to have their names taken off the mailing list. As a result, they are not informed of how the most rabid haters of Second Amendment Rights in our entire Congress are influencing other Congressional members in both the House and in the Senate.

How do we get us to vote out those politicians and vote pro-RKBA in '14 and '16?

The angry iPhone pond sinkers were all able to get BHO re-elected, and the majority of those voters don't even know why they voted for him. Many of them voted because he was cool, and used a Blackberry, and walked cool, and other "cool" things about him. The few who had concrete and articulate reasons for voting for him were not understanding the serious ramifications on why it was considered a bad idea to vote for him.

How do we figure out how to convince gun owners that they have a serious interest in voting pro-RKBA?

My thoughts might be unrealistic, but I can't help but to think that if maybe half of the gun owners today voted for those who the NRA provides better grades than the running challenger, we just might have the ability to "count to 38".

Why not?

Erik.