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View Full Version : How the Fiscal Cliff "deal" may help us


Moonshine
01-03-2013, 2:36 PM
Right now a lot of Republicans who caved on the deal got their butts handed to them. Wanting to show their conservative credentials wouldn't voting down a gun ban be the perfect way to play to a tea party base during the primary?

bwiese
01-03-2013, 2:56 PM
Not sure the 'tea party' has any worthwhile mojo - most people the TP put up were losers, product of poor planning, etc.

In fact TP-like thought cost Romney the election (see: Akin, Mourdock, woman's vote, etc.)

However, your broad theme is correct - and even blue-dog Dems holding on to their seats by a 1% margin will not wanna cross that line.

I'm sanguine that no bad gun law will get thru the House.

baddos
01-03-2013, 3:02 PM
Oh please, Romney was not a tea party candidate. His loss had everything to do with him not being trusted as an east coast liberal republican and a strange religion.

stix213
01-03-2013, 3:07 PM
Oh please, Romney was not a tea party candidate. His loss had everything to do with him not being trusted as an east coast liberal republican and a strange religion.

I believe Bill was referring to Tea Party supporters largely sitting out the election, and the two senators who just couldn't keep their mouths shut about "legitimate rape" making Republicans look very bad, thus handing Obama his victory.

frankm
01-03-2013, 3:10 PM
Oh please, Romney was not a tea party candidate. His loss had everything to do with him not being trusted as an east coast liberal republican and a strange religion.

bingo.

killmime1234
01-03-2013, 3:13 PM
I think it will help us because DiFi's ban is calling for a new budget to cover the expenses of registration and enforcement. After the fiscal cliff fiasco, nobody is going to vote something in that adds to our budget.

troysland
01-03-2013, 3:13 PM
Not so sure, my tin foil hat feels a bit tighter after reading this thread....
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=10100289#post10100289

VAReact
01-03-2013, 3:14 PM
Something else to ponder -an article I read in the LA times recently speculated that Obama will be too busy dealing with the spending cuts that were kicked down the road and the upcoming debt ceiling to be able to expend much time/effort on any gun control efforts. Let's hope that turns out to be the case.

bwiese
01-03-2013, 3:18 PM
Oh please, Romney was not a tea party candidate. His loss had everything to do with him not being trusted as an east coast liberal republican and a strange religion.

I didn't say he was a TP candidate at all, which indicates another sign of TPism - failure to read & comprehend.

Romney's loss was not about trying to get more Thumpers out - if you look at the microtargeting the huge female vote in swing states was where the key losses were, and was triggered in large part by educated suburban professional (often single) women recoiling in horror at anti-female statements by Romney and further magnified by Akin/Mourdock bad press & total idiocy. A lesser problem were the UAW Obama giveaways (that could have been overcome).

The GOP needs to stop thinking about how to win already-won states: you don't need to re-hunt what was in the bag already. TPers didn't understand this, nor did GOP on women's voting patterns; if they had, they'd've torched Akin and Mourdouck's homes and said F- these losers, and they'd have been up a few million votes in the swing states.

TPers somehow think their problem is "being more conservative" (read: Thumpers that took over TP which originally only had financial concerns) when that is just the recipe for what we Californians are seeing: GOP fading away.

Moonshine
01-03-2013, 4:34 PM
In my opinion if Romney had just been true to who he was as governor he would have been a much more interesting and viable candidate. The primaries killed him in the general election. Plus he needed more of a platform than "I'm not Obama". The tea party has really cost a lot of Republican seats by running candidates that perform very well in primaries but are not electable in a general election.

CBruce
01-03-2013, 5:18 PM
Right now a lot of Republicans who caved on the deal got their butts handed to them. Wanting to show their conservative credentials wouldn't voting down a gun ban be the perfect way to play to a tea party base during the primary?

Tea-party far more concerned with taxes than civil rights.

CBruce
01-03-2013, 5:19 PM
I think it will help us because DiFi's ban is calling for a new budget to cover the expenses of registration and enforcement. After the fiscal cliff fiasco, nobody is going to vote something in that adds to our budget.

"twenty...dead...children"

It's the Democrat version of "9/11". Can justify anything by just reminding people that if we dont, "twenty...dead...children!"

Sakiri
01-03-2013, 5:24 PM
Yeah the thing that stopped my vote for Romney was the woman hating thing.

What I do with my lady parts is none of his business imo. He should stick with worrying about his wife.

Moonshine
01-03-2013, 5:37 PM
Who the president is right now is a moot point with regards to gun control because none will be arriving at his desk.

OleCuss
01-03-2013, 5:40 PM
I'm not sure that the analysis of why Romney lost is correct.

Also not at all sure the analysis of what would happen in the House is correct either. The potential problem is Boehner and his willingness to bring to a vote a bill which is not supported by a majority of the majority. This is where the danger lies.

But I do think there is too much truth to the analysis of the Tea Party. There is too much willingness to accept stupid.

If we could just energize the Libertarian Party? And actually, California just might the best place to do that. California is a place with a non-competitive Republican Party. If we could get a good percentage of people of a conservative/libertarian mindset to register as Libertarians and start putting up Libertarian candidates in relatively "safe" Democrat districts we could start eroding the Democrat dominance. I'd probably not work very hard to put up Libertarian candidates in "safe" Republican districts - but I'd not object to that, either.

bwiese
01-03-2013, 5:46 PM
If we could just energize the Libertarian Party?


You're asking a group whose supporters don't really believe in organization to accept structure and discipline to get to a point where they win.

That won't happen.

NotEnufGarage
01-03-2013, 5:47 PM
Not sure the 'tea party' has any worthwhile mojo - most people the TP put up were losers, product of poor planning, etc.

In fact TP-like thought cost Romney the election (see: Akin, Mourdock, woman's vote, etc.)

However, your broad theme is correct - and even blue-dog Dems holding on to their seats by a 1% margin will not wanna cross that line.

I'm sanguine that no bad gun law will get thru the House.

Romney cost himself the election. He spent 6 months savagely trashing ever other Republican in the primaries to win the nomination, played nicey-nice with Obama in the general election campaign and then 3 million conservatives stayed home. I wonder why?

He broke Ronald Reagan's 11th Commandment and he paid the price for it.

five.five-six
01-03-2013, 5:49 PM
Yeah the thing that stopped my vote for Romney was the woman hating thing.

LOL, I take it that your are easly impressed with bright and shiny objects too.

DannyInSoCal
01-03-2013, 5:51 PM
Marco Rubio was a TP candidate -

He's probably the best chance for conservatives in 2016 -

Rubio/West 2016.....

OleCuss
01-03-2013, 6:19 PM
You're asking a group whose supporters don't really believe in organization to accept structure and discipline to get to a point where they win.

That won't happen.

Yup, hence the "If we could" phraseology. . .

Yet, if there were someone who had a ton of money (I'm talking tens of millions) to put into a registration campaign you might be able to get a bunch of people who are fed up with the Republican Party to migrate. I'm not going to hold my breath. . .

OleCuss
01-03-2013, 6:24 PM
Marco Rubio was a TP candidate -

He's probably the best chance for conservatives in 2016 -

Rubio/West 2016.....

A little too early, but off-hand, that's the best ticket I can think of at the moment.

I think West is my current favorite politician but I don't think he'd do well at the top of the ticket (for much the same reasons that I like him).

Rubio is sharp and seems to understand politics very well. Not sure he is as libertarian as I want, but I think that at the moment he is the best hope of the Republicans.

Not sure who the Democrats will be able to field. Hillary is about the only person I hear mentioned as a viable 2016 candidate and I think that her recent physical difficulties decrease the likelihood of her making a successful run in 2016.

baddos
01-03-2013, 6:59 PM
I didn't say he was a TP candidate at all, which indicates another sign of TPism - failure to read & comprehend.




In fact TP-like thought cost Romney the election (see: Akin, Mourdock, woman's vote, etc.)


Yes, you didn't say Romney was a TP candidate, yet state that the tea party candidates lost the election for him. While I aggree those two senate candidates were fatal, they alone have little to do with Romney's loss.

You democrats need to get over the furor you have for the TP, like it or not it's here to stay. For every TP candidate that lost we can point to one that won. There is plenty to blame to go around for Romney's loss, but the TP attempting to get America back to it's roots isn't one of them.

vector16
01-03-2013, 7:18 PM
I think it will help us because DiFi's ban is calling for a new budget to cover the expenses of registration and enforcement. After the fiscal cliff fiasco, nobody is going to vote something in that adds to our budget.

Arwe you kidding me? Really. You think that administration give a flying flock about a budget. This is a president that since the election has let the nat'l debt rise another $2 trillion, His person travel and travel to go on the Late Show, and David Letterman and pother unnesessary travel in well over $27,000,000,000,000. Thats almost twice what we owe. He raises the debt ceiling twice and is well on his way to raise it gain and raise taxes not only on the + $400,000ers but the plan also calls for everyone elses taxes to climb another $1K a year. AND you think they care about money, they are using this country as their own personal ATM. Thjey don't give a sh** about about how much money they spend, its not theior money they are spending, its yours. They are going to do what ever it takes to ban all guns and for the ones that youi have to be turned over to the goverement after you die.
Give me a break! you must be new to politics, voting, and to the concept of the democratic party, chief.

If you think think they are concerned with how much of your money they are wasting then you probably also think that our Gov. Jerry Brown in going lower your taxes, secure the borders and pay your rent.

kaligaran
01-03-2013, 8:53 PM
LOL, I take it that your are easly impressed with bright and shiny objects too.

Yes, women clearly aren't free thinkers for being offended by comments of 'legitimate rape'. :facepalm:

Just as bwiese very correctly pointed out, Republican party in general really hindered their platform by not making a significant effort to condemn factually incorrect statements which received significant publicity such as the one mentioned above.

My opinion? If the Republican platform would just drop the abortion issue all together they would take the country by storm.

GunnerB
01-03-2013, 9:03 PM
Tea Party at its core is actually "Constitutionalist", Just because somebody advocates for those values, doesn't mean they are what would be considered a TPC.

vector16
01-03-2013, 9:21 PM
My opinion? If the Republican platform would just drop the abortion issue all together they would take the country by storm.

Absolutly, I don't give a rat, about the abortion issue, really. Go off and get an abortion if YOU want one, I don't want to pay for YOUR abortion. This is a religion deal anyway. If a chick got hammered at a party and got raped by a train than go get an abortion. If a lady slept with your best friend because she felt sorry for him, same deal. I do not want to pay for it.

gomatty
01-03-2013, 9:27 PM
If anyone thinks the Republicans need a candidate further to the right on the next go, they are dead wrong. The more separation the less successful the Republicans will be. Republicans need a candidate that can blur the lines a little and pull some left of center votes. It's a simple concept...if the other guy is winning, make yourself seem more like that guy, if you're winning, continue to show how different the other guy is.

Show a republican on the ballot that is for small government, fiscal conservatism, pro-gun, pro-choice, pro-gay and I'll show you a winner almost anywhere. It's not going to work with guys like Romney or Gingrich, it'll take new blood and fresh faces. The Republicans won't lose their base of evangelicals and the like. Sure they'll go along kicking and screaming, but they'll go along.

battleship
01-03-2013, 9:54 PM
How big of an impact on jobs, gun manufactures and the tax revenue from semi auto rifles and handgun sales going to play in any up coming proposed bans. With the massive rush in gun sales Uncle Sam is getting paid back big time in tax revenue. And the last thing we need is more unemployment. If a proposed ban was to get passed the government would loose out big time. So is it going to be an influence that would help us.

vector16
01-03-2013, 9:55 PM
Santorum should have stuck it out. The next pres will be repubican. Everyone voted for him because he is black. they did not vote for him because they knew WTH they were talking about, they voted for him because they did not know WTF they were talking about.