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Danz la Nuit
01-03-2013, 1:53 PM
Could a LEO legally use a firearm related sticker/logo on a bag or on your car as probable cause that there is a firearm in the vehicle and therefore conduct a search without your consent and without you stating if you did or did not have any firearms with you?

Guitarmoto
01-03-2013, 2:04 PM
I'm curious about this too. I doubt it for search, but I know for sure they approach more cautiously.

Moonshine
01-03-2013, 2:04 PM
IDEA: don't put a sticker on it and you'll never ha e to find out. MOST people don't know I own a gun. SOME people know I own a handgun to protect my family. ONLY MY CLOSEST FRIENDS know I own 10 guns including semi-auto rifles...

WeiseGuy
01-03-2013, 2:15 PM
Yeah, I wouldnt blatantly be telling anyone I have firearms in my car or give any inclination that I might. Same for my home. Why would I give a reason to break into my car/home.

skyscraper
01-03-2013, 2:17 PM
I would ask this in the LEO forum, that way you get real LEO's answering your question.

smn
01-03-2013, 2:17 PM
I believe there was a case somewhere the cops had pulled someone over for having an NRA sticker thinking the driver had guns in the car...
310 F.3d at 353 (http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=564220522016041434&q=%22nra+sticker%22+decal+first+amendment&hl=en&as_sdt=2,11)
In Estep, the Fifth Circuit stated that the presence of a NRA sticker on a vehicle should not have raised the inference the driver was dangerous. Id. at 358. The Court concluded "[r]egardless of whether there is some correlation between the display of an NRA sticker and gun possession, placing an NRA sticker in one's vehicle is certainly legal and constitutes expression which is protected by the First Amendment. A police officer's inference that danger is afoot because a citizen displays an NRA sticker in his vehicle presents disturbing First and Fourth Amendment implications." Id. at 358-359 (emphasis in original).

cdtx2001
01-03-2013, 2:20 PM
That has been an issue in Ohio. Remember the guys putting those little stickers on their cars in support of the 2A and some Ohio police agency coming out with the bulletin about it? It basically told officers that if they see that sticker that they were to assume the occupant of the vehicle had a gun.

MyNamesMeToo
01-03-2013, 2:23 PM
IDEA: don't put a sticker on it and you'll never ha e to find out. MOST people don't know I own a gun. SOME people know I own a handgun to protect my family. ONLY MY CLOSEST FRIENDS know I own 10 guns including semi-auto rifles...

agreed. no need to advertise. and awww schucks, i guess we're closest friends now. :)

like ricers putting stickers all over their cars and wondering why they get pulled over and have their hoods popped and cars impounded.:oji:

winnre
01-03-2013, 2:26 PM
Probably not, I am sure this case could be cited:

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/20408392/cops-cant-pull-cars-over-because-of-new-paint-job

stix213
01-03-2013, 2:26 PM
IDEA: don't put a sticker on it and you'll never ha e to find out. MOST people don't know I own a gun. SOME people know I own a handgun to protect my family. ONLY MY CLOSEST FRIENDS know I own 10 guns including semi-auto rifles...

I appreciate being counted among your closest friends.

Kestryll
01-03-2013, 2:34 PM
If they can I should have been pulled over a LOT more then I have been!
(Once for speeding, I was)

http://www.calguns.net/CGNTruck/34front1.gif

bill_k_lopez
01-03-2013, 2:34 PM
Why advertise to the general public?

cpatbay
01-03-2013, 2:36 PM
Where can I buy a TRUCK LIKE THAT !!! 8)

Oceanbob
01-03-2013, 2:38 PM
Regardless of what stickers you have on your car, there still have to be either probable cause for a Search or your Consent for a Search.

Never consent to a search. Never.

(By the way; always transport your guns legally. Unloaded in a locked case)

Probable cause would have to be you resemble an escaped felon or you are a wanted person. Someone who looks like you just robbed a bank down the street...etc...etc..etc.. NOT because you have a GLOCK sticker on your bumper.

Learn to listen to the conversation when pulled over. If you are removed from your car (asked to get out) and sat down on the CURB or Sidewalk, expect the Police to search. They will ask you if you have anything illegal inside the car; you respond 'No', then they say as they are opening the drivers door...'You don't mind if I take a look then do you..?'...being intimidated you reply...'No, go ahead'....BAD MOVE.

I see this happen on COPS all the time. Young kids sitting on the sidewalk and the cops pull that stunt; find Pot or a pipe or something. They all go to jail.

Keep it shut. hahaha

Librarian
01-03-2013, 2:43 PM
And you might have your lunch in that Glock-embossed tupperware. If they want to see what's in the box, they need probable cause, or a warrant (for which they are supposed to explain their probable cause).

Doesn't mean an investigator won't try.

Moonshine
01-03-2013, 2:56 PM
Heh just sharing the love! After all if DiFi's AW ban passes we'll all get to have these conversations in person in homeland security detention camps while they investigate all of our posts heh :)!!!

1911_sfca
01-03-2013, 2:57 PM
No. But as stated above, thieves can use the sticker as probable cause to break into your vehicle and steal your firearm(s) or other valuables.

BTW, nice truck Kes!

Cobrafreak
01-03-2013, 3:01 PM
Would I ever wear a t-shirt that says "I have a Concealed Carry Permit"? No. Bumper sticker, almost the same thing. Weigh in what good can come from it vs what bad. It's better to be stealthy.

TransplantTexan
01-03-2013, 3:02 PM
IDEA: don't put a sticker on it and you'll never ha e to find out. MOST people don't know I own a gun. SOME people know I own a handgun to protect my family. ONLY MY CLOSEST FRIENDS know I own 10 guns including semi-auto rifles...

Some of my closest friends would call you a SLACKER, you need to go acquire/purchase a few more.

edwardm
01-03-2013, 3:04 PM
This is an interesting case on point as far as containers go.

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca8/06-3593/063593p-2011-02-25.html

This is why I advise people to transport in cases that don't bear a logo, or which wouldn't pass the "single purpose" test, whenever possible.

As for stickers on the car to generate PC...meh. That's what I call a "fact creation" exercise, wherein the LEO engages in "Creating Facts" around whatever originally aroused suspicion in order to legitimize a claim of probable cause. I wouldn't put the invitation out, so to speak.

Wiz-of-Awd
01-03-2013, 3:05 PM
"...as probable cause that there is a firearm in the vehicle..."

I would say to this, "So what?"
Carrying a gun in my car is not illegal, provided I am doing so in a legal manner.

Should these same LEO assume probable cause to search your vehicle for CD's or an iPod if you have music related stickers on your vehicle?

Perhaps I'm just being naive, but I'm not real sure of the concern or issue in this thread.

Anyway, as others have said, "No consent to search. Sorry LEO."

A.W.D.

bwiese
01-03-2013, 3:09 PM
There is (Fed) case law out there I recall saying (roughly) that presence of a what is commonly called a 'gun case' is not sufficient probable cause for search.

ronlglock
01-03-2013, 3:09 PM
ONLY MY CLOSEST FRIENDS know I own 10 guns including semi-auto rifles... And a lot of Calgunners... :kest:

edwardm
01-03-2013, 3:11 PM
Yeah, Don told me about that case a few years ago. It was an SBR or SBS prosecution, not the 8th circuit case I cited. But I think they still relied upon and upheld the "single purpose" container rule. I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: Actually it was a good discussion of why, on the pertinent facts of Gust, the single-purpose container exception was not met in that case.

There is (Fed) case law out there I recall saying (roughly) that presence of a what is commonly called a 'gun case' is not sufficient probable cause for search.

Moonshine
01-03-2013, 3:19 PM
Heh just sharing the love! After all if DiFi's AW ban passes we'll all get to have these conversations in person in homeland security detention camps while they investigate all of our posts heh :)!!!

Glock22Fan
01-03-2013, 3:20 PM
IDEA: don't put a sticker on it and you'll never ha e to find out. MOST people don't know I own a gun. SOME people know I own a handgun to protect my family. ONLY MY CLOSEST FRIENDS know I own 10 guns including semi-auto rifles...

Newbie are we?

LOL

donw
01-03-2013, 3:21 PM
never consent to a search without a warrant and a supervisor present...

i go along with the stickers seem to attract un-wanted attention.

artoaster
01-03-2013, 3:21 PM
Cops are constantly profiling everybody. Race, age, tattoos, bumper stickers, clothing, type of car, accessories and the list goes on.

Never consent to searches and don't answer questions you don't want to. Just at that point say "listen, I'm not going to answer any of your questions unless I have my lawyer present". Then ask if you are being detained and if you're free to go.

That should signal to them that you want to go on about your business.

I won't put any gun related stickers on my car nor any religious, political or controversial stuff either, not only because of police but people should practice driving not reading stuff on my bumper.

edwardm
01-03-2013, 3:24 PM
There is (Fed) case law out there I recall saying (roughly) that presence of a what is commonly called a 'gun case' is not sufficient probable cause for search.

Here it is.

https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/405/405.F3d.797.04-30208.html

U.S. v Gust

Very good discussion of the single-purpose container exception, and relevant facts (hard plastic case with "BUSHMASTER" on it.

CSACANNONEER
01-03-2013, 3:26 PM
IDEA: don't put a sticker on it and you'll never ha e to find out. MOST people don't know I own a gun. SOME people know I own a handgun to protect my family. ONLY MY CLOSEST FRIENDS know I own 10 guns including semi-auto rifles...

Great, that's what we need upstanding and responsible citizens who hide their gun ownership like he/she is ashamed to own firearms, doing something illegal and/or feels like he/she has to to be politically correct. Just think what this state would be like IF all the closet gun owners were a little more open in public. Maybe we could educate the under educated (when it comes to firearms) masses and let them learn that firearms much more common and mainsteam than some under educated antis want them to be. But, I guess there will always be those who are scared enough of the few outspoken antis to hide in the closet.

edwardm
01-03-2013, 3:28 PM
It's not a fear of anti's or LE. I don't want to deal with busted windows and pried-open locks on my truck/car anymore.

Great, that's what we need upstanding and responsible citizens who hide their gun ownership like he/she is ashamed to own firearms, doing something illegal and/or feels like he/she has to to be politically correct. Just think what this state would be like IF all the closet gun owners were a little more open in public. Maybe we could educate the under educated (when it comes to firearms) masses and let them learn that firearms much more common and mainsteam than some under educated antis want them to be. But, I guess there will always be those who are scared enough of the few outspoken antis to hide in the closet.

Hogstir
01-03-2013, 3:39 PM
I think all Calgunners should take their lunch to work in an embossed Kimber or Glock case. Imagine the cop's face when he performs a search without consent and finds a sandwich. LOL

mikestesting
01-03-2013, 3:43 PM
ONLY MY CLOSEST FRIENDS know I own 10 guns including semi-auto rifles...

Not anymore...

Ron-Solo
01-03-2013, 4:47 PM
Basic answer: NO

I don't put gun stickers on my car because I dont want to be a target for thieves.

snowdog650
01-03-2013, 4:53 PM
Could a LEO legally use a firearm related sticker/logo on a bag or on your car as probable cause that there is a firearm in the vehicle and therefore conduct a search without your consent and without you stating if you did or did not have any firearms with you?

Nope.

But I'm thinking thugs would illegally use a firearm-related sticker/logo on a bag or on your car as probable cause that there is a firearm in the vehicle and therefore commit a property crime ... or worse.

lilro
01-03-2013, 4:53 PM
Having a sticker is probable cause for having a gun in the car, but having a gun in the car is not probable cause for a search, unless you are suspected of committing/about to commit a crime.

CSACANNONEER
01-03-2013, 5:14 PM
It's not a fear of anti's or LE. I don't want to deal with busted windows and pried-open locks on my truck/car anymore.

I see the problem. You don't live/work/play in the right nieghborhoods. I simply don't lock my vehicles when I'm at home. They don't get broken into and, as long as I leave the keys in them, I never misplace my keys either.

Kodemonkey
01-03-2013, 5:25 PM
Can you climb inside the head of every LEO out there? If a cop wants to pull you over, they will find a cause. I've watched it happen in ride-a-longs. "Oh he appears to be swerving...we should investigate" (with a wink).

I'm not embarrassed to be a gun owner, and I contribute regularly to the NRA, CRPA (sorry Brandon), CGF, 2AF, and even CGN. But I'm not giving that .1% of cops that might just be "looking" for a gun violation. Don't want/need the hassle and perhaps arrest/jail because of an ignorant cop that thinks my CA legal firearm is illegal.

dantodd
01-03-2013, 5:40 PM
Why advertise to the general public?

tax purposes

cjc16
01-03-2013, 5:45 PM
NRA Life Member and Calguns Foundation stickers on my car tell Police I know my rights and thieves believe I'm armed and dangerous.

xrMike
01-03-2013, 6:11 PM
I've been rocking an NRA sticker for 15 years, pobably received 8 tickets in that time, and never once been asked about firearms. Even after cussing a couple of them out.

xrMike
01-03-2013, 6:15 PM
Never had a break in either. Or somebody follow me home to steal my guns. Or any of those other reasons that people use that makes them sound like they live in fear all the time.

Rickrock1
01-03-2013, 6:29 PM
Oceanbob I agree with you 100% and most importantly any should be allowed to have an NRA, Cal guns , Glock etc decal and not fear the law.

rplusplus
01-03-2013, 6:45 PM
OK, so what does the LEO think when he pulls over my late model BMW SUV with a NRA Sticker and a KPBS (the local NPR PBS Station) License plate frame and a CA Veteran USN Plates {Vanity of course}, with a dozen squadron decals and lastly a USN Retired decal.

Seriously. I have been pulled over 5 times in 30 years of driving and it has always been a courteous drivers license and registration please. 5 pull overs 2 tickets, 1 Drivers School ( my fault 70 in a 45) and one dismiss ( was totally yellow).

Bill Carson
01-03-2013, 6:45 PM
Yeah, I wouldnt blatantly be telling anyone I have firearms in my car or give any inclination that I might. Same for my home. Why would I give a reason to break into my car/home.
This

pitbull30
01-03-2013, 6:57 PM
OK, so what does the LEO think when he pulls over my late model BMW SUV with a NRA Sticker and a KPBS (the local NPR PBS Station) License plate frame and a CA Veteran USN Plates {Vanity of course}, with a dozen squadron decals and lastly a USN Retired decal.

Seriously. I have been pulled over 5 times in 30 years of driving and it has always been a courteous drivers license and registration please. 5 pull overs 2 tickets, 1 Drivers School ( my fault 70 in a 45) and one dismiss ( was totally yellow).

That despite your NRA sticker your are a Vet without a warrant therefore you prob aren't looking to knock off a liquor store.

I could spot a hundred more people to give a hard time than your description in my area.

mshill
01-03-2013, 8:13 PM
I just don't ever put stickers on a car.

scrubb
01-03-2013, 8:24 PM
Could a LEO legally use a firearm related sticker/logo on a bag or on your car as probable cause that there is a firearm in the vehicle and therefore conduct a search without your consent and without you stating if you did or did not have any firearms with you?

You betcha boy!

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1080/1175475919_28d7112c64.jpg

vincewarde
01-03-2013, 10:44 PM
I believe there was a case somewhere the cops had pulled someone over for having an NRA sticker thinking the driver had guns in the car...
310 F.3d at 353 (http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=564220522016041434&q=%22nra+sticker%22+decal+first+amendment&hl=en&as_sdt=2,11)

Great find. The Fifth Circuit was also the first to recognize a personal 2nd Amendment right too.

Of course this doesn't mean they can't search your vehicle on these grounds, it just means what "evidence" they may find is inadmissible.

vincewarde
01-03-2013, 10:49 PM
When I was pulled over in the wife's car, with a Calguns Gun Rights = Civil Rights frame, I did get asked if I happened to be carrying (I wasn't). What followed was a 20 minute conversation with the CHP officer, new to the area, about where he could shoot IDPA, what he shot and reloading presses....... got to love El Dorado County :)

Hopalong
01-04-2013, 6:10 AM
Legal or not, who needs the hassle?

If you put something up for display

Don't get upset when someone notices

dwtt
01-04-2013, 7:55 AM
So, if I were to put a sticker from my former employer, Lockheed Martin, on my car, would a cop think I'm carrying a missile?

wazdat
01-04-2013, 8:03 AM
That has been an issue in Ohio. Remember the guys putting those little stickers on their cars in support of the 2A and some Ohio police agency coming out with the bulletin about it? It basically told officers that if they see that sticker that they were to assume the occupant of the vehicle had a gun.

You mean this decal? It was the Baltimore Police.
http://www.ammoland.com/2011/06/baltimore-police-issue-2nd-amendment-decal-warning/#axzz2H1SqjMZO

http://cdn.ammoland.com/files/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/2nd-Amendment-Decal.jpg

billmaykafer
01-04-2013, 8:39 AM
can i take my wife to the detention camp with me? she is pretty good cook and i would be happier with her cooking some grub.

billmaykafer
01-04-2013, 8:44 AM
You mean this decal? It was the Baltimore Police.
http://www.ammoland.com/2011/06/baltimore-police-issue-2nd-amendment-decal-warning/#axzz2H1SqjMZO

http://cdn.ammoland.com/files/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/2nd-Amendment-Decal.jpg

traffic stops are the most dangerous for police? i thought domestic disputes were most dangerous. i could be wrong thogh as i did not google it.

otteray
01-04-2013, 8:51 AM
My bro-in-law had the hood of his beautiful Corvette keyed.
Oddly, he had no bumper stickers.
How many broken windows, thefts or arrests have actually been documented, or is this another urban legend?
How many times has someone attacked a vehicle because of a bumper sticker that states something arguable? Where is the documentation?

the86d
01-04-2013, 9:03 AM
If asked to search your vehicle: "I do not consent to any searches."
If asked again: "Again, I do not consent to ANY searches..."

"What is your P.C.?" Will get a nice attitude from a LEO, they then know that you are familiar with Probational Cause, and that you are truly not willing to be violated. I have had a cop's dog piss in my car: They were using my car as a training session for the dog, and they guy pulled a baggie of a white powder out of his pocket, and said "Look what we have here..." He was screwing with me, as I had never been a druggie. "I do NOT consent to ANY searches!" will forever be my response if I am asked if they can search any of my property for the rest of my life...

TeddyBallgame
01-04-2013, 9:06 AM
ahh, I remember the good ole days when owning a gun was paramount to owning shovel

nobody cared

Colonel Monk
01-04-2013, 9:09 AM
Yeah, whether right or wrong, it's got to be better just to NOT have the sticker on your vehicle.

Wear a glock tshirt to the bar, but having your car be vanilla can save you hassle.

As always stated, "Don't talk to the Police" "Don't consent to a search".

I'm always suprised how people don't realize they can say NO and it's up to the police to provide a warrant.

Even if you have nothing to hide you don't have to show them everything.

The locked container thing is key - I have started to put locks on my gun bags, and I put my pistols in there as well for travel and keep them locked.

I also don't use traditional gun cases if I can help it - a tactical rifle case looks like any number of black cases for music equipment, etc.

Another important point, is that if you are asked to exit your vehicle, LOCK THE DOORS. If they are locked, they cannot search your car or otherwise snoop around. If they ask you why you locked it just tell them "habit". If they ask you to unlock it, "I do not consent to a search".

It's not personal - if they get angry just tell them it's your right, and you can exercise it.

I don't do illegal things, but as evidenced 100's of times a day across the country, some uneducated officers who don't know the law will try to trip you up while doing a "routine stop". You can protect yourself against this.

Prime example is the other thread about the loaded magazine being a loaded weapon, even if it is locked away from the gun. Bull****, but you can still end up having your day ruined by this police belief.

So protect yourself.

CM

Decoligny
01-04-2013, 10:37 AM
That has been an issue in Ohio. Remember the guys putting those little stickers on their cars in support of the 2A and some Ohio police agency coming out with the bulletin about it? It basically told officers that if they see that sticker that they were to assume the occupant of the vehicle had a gun.

Any LEO that doesn't assume that every single person he pulls over is armed, is a fool.

It is one thing to assume that someone has a firearm.

It is another thing all together to assume the someone has a firearm ILLEGALLY.

Probable Cause refers to having enough cause to believe that a crime has been committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed.

Assumption does not meet the standard of Probable Cause.

Before I had my LTC, the only time I carried a firearm in my vehicle was to/from the range (a buddy's gravel pit). However, I own many 2A related tee shirts, and wear them a lot.

Wearing a 2A tee shirt does not give an officer Probable Cause to believe I have commited a crime. It does not give them Probable Cause to believe I have a gun on me.

LibertyDeath
01-04-2013, 10:42 AM
Could a LEO legally use a firearm related sticker/logo on a bag or on your car as probable cause that there is a firearm in the vehicle and therefore conduct a search without your consent and without you stating if you did or did not have any firearms with you?

No, absolutely not. That is not probable cause, reasonable suspicion, or anything remotely similar. It is a violation of the 4th Amendment.

Doesn't mean that there isn't going to be someone that tries it. IF they do just tell them that you do not consent to the illegal search and wait for the judge to toss any case brought against you. :oji:

Chatterbox
01-04-2013, 10:46 AM
As a quick sidenote - let's say that you're pulled over, and the cop demands you to open a locked container for inspection. Not requests, but demands. Do you:
-say : "Yes, officer, here you go", and accept the risk the cop will lie and say you had given him permission
-say : "I respectfully decline" and accept the likelihood of being arrested and charged with "disturbing the peace" or "interfering with investigation" or something similar

Chatterbox
01-04-2013, 10:46 AM
Weird...dupe appeared later.

Wiz-of-Awd
01-04-2013, 11:00 AM
As a quick sidenote - let's say that you're pulled over, and the cop demands you to open a locked container for inspection. Not requests, but demands. Do you:
-say : "Yes, officer, here you go", and accept the risk the cop will lie and say you had given him permission
-say : "I respectfully decline" and accept the likelihood of being arrested and charged with "disturbing the peace" or "interfering with investigation" or something similar

:popcorn:

A.W.D.

LibertyDeath
01-04-2013, 11:18 AM
As a quick sidenote - let's say that you're pulled over, and the cop demands you to open a locked container for inspection. Not requests, but demands. Do you:
-say : "Yes, officer, here you go", and accept the risk the cop will lie and say you had given him permission
-say : "I respectfully decline" and accept the likelihood of being arrested and charged with "disturbing the peace" or "interfering with investigation" or something similar

You simply say sure, may I see your warrant? In 1 circumstance can law enforcement search your locked compartments without a warrant, you allow them too. If they arrest you for it then they violated your civil rights.

Harrison_Bergeron
01-04-2013, 11:20 AM
Is the unloaded safety check still in place?

LibertyDeath
01-04-2013, 11:24 AM
Unloaded open carry has been banned.

Sniper3142
01-04-2013, 11:55 AM
As a quick sidenote - let's say that you're pulled over, and the cop demands you to open a locked container for inspection. Not requests, but demands. Do you:
-say : "Yes, officer, here you go", and accept the risk the cop will lie and say you had given him permission
-say : "I respectfully decline" and accept the likelihood of being arrested and charged with "disturbing the peace" or "interfering with investigation" or something similar


Repeat after me:

- I do not consent to searches.
- Am I free to go?
- Do you have a warrant?


Is the unloaded safety check still in place?


If you are talking about the authority police have to ensure a firearm is being transported safely; then yes it still exists.

However... a cop has to either see, be told, or develop some evidence that a firearm is present. There is no legal requirement that you tell a cop that a firearm is present. So keep your firearms out of plain sight and your mouth shut!

;)

Colonel Monk
01-04-2013, 12:07 PM
As a quick sidenote - let's say that you're pulled over, and the cop demands you to open a locked container for inspection. Not requests, but demands. Do you:
-say : "Yes, officer, here you go", and accept the risk the cop will lie and say you had given him permission
-say : "I respectfully decline" and accept the likelihood of being arrested and charged with "disturbing the peace" or "interfering with investigation" or something similar

Not sure what the popcorn is for, but to correct you I believe you need to say "I do not consent to a search" OR I suppose the "can I see your search warrant" might also work.

I think it's a good assumption that letting them look at your stuff will get you out of there sooner in most cases, but the point is, THEY do not have the RIGHT to search you without your permission or without a warrant.

After you grant them permission, all bets are off and as far as I know anything that turns up can be used against you.

If you don't consent to a search and they do it anyway, you may be charged but it will get thrown out of court.

I know alot of folks fall into the "I have nothing to hide officer here you go sir I'm sorry sir" camp.

But I have to say, and with all due respect to good cops who really do operate under the "protect and serve" motto - I'm tired of hearing about police that use intimidation to get you to "waive your rights", resulting in law trouble for you when all you were doing is speeding, or had a tail light out, or whatever the reason.

The sketchier the streets become, the less patience they have to do the right thing, and the worse the "respect my authority!" attitude. I demand mutual respect. I am a citizen and I deserve nothing less, even if I was speeding thru Nebraska with California plates and a crack in my windshield (which happened on my trip).

CM

EM2
01-04-2013, 12:24 PM
IDEA: don't put a sticker on it and you'll never ha e to find out. MOST people don't know I own a gun. SOME people know I own a handgun to protect my family. ONLY MY CLOSEST FRIENDS know I own 10 guns including semi-auto rifles...


So self restricting of rights is a good idea based on what someone else might do?

Oh & now the whole world knows.
Or are you saying that we all are your friends?:)

Excelsior
01-04-2013, 1:03 PM
agreed. no need to advertise. and awww schucks, i guess we're closest friends now. :)

like ricers putting stickers all over their cars and wondering why they get pulled over and have their hoods popped and cars impounded.:oji:

A what? Is that some sort of ethnic slur? :confused:

rm760
01-04-2013, 1:08 PM
I think it's a good assumption that letting them look at your stuff will get you out of there sooner in most cases, but the point is, THEY do not have the RIGHT to search you without your permission or without a warrant.

After you grant them permission, all bets are off and as far as I know anything that turns up can be used against you.

If you don't consent to a search and they do it anyway, you may be charged but it will get thrown out of court.

I know alot of folks fall into the "I have nothing to hide officer here you go sir I'm sorry sir" camp.

But I have to say, and with all due respect to good cops who really do operate under the "protect and serve" motto - I'm tired of hearing about police that use intimidation to get you to "waive your rights", resulting in law trouble for you when all you were doing is speeding, or had a tail light out, or whatever the reason.

The sketchier the streets become, the less patience they have to do the right thing, and the worse the "respect my authority!" attitude. I demand mutual respect. I am a citizen and I deserve nothing less, even if I was speeding thru Nebraska with California plates and a crack in my windshield (which happened on my trip).

CM

Only once in my life have I been asked if an officer could search my car. I was pulled over for having a loud car (I had a modified exhaust at the time). I gave consent because I had nothing to hide and was not in the mood to defend myself if I did not give consent. I then politely asked why he wanted to search my car.

The LEO then started questioning me and asking if I was hiding something - mind you I gave consent from the get-go and was being polite and cooperative throughout the encounter. He then told me that by asking a police officer "why" you "challenge his authority and make yourself look suspicious."

He eventually let me off with a warning, but only after he gave me a long lecture on ALWAYS giving police consent. :facepalm: This was LAPD by the way.

Clownpuncher
01-04-2013, 1:11 PM
IDEA: don't put a sticker on it and you'll never ha e to find out. MOST people don't know I own a gun. SOME people know I own a handgun to protect my family. ONLY MY CLOSEST FRIENDS know I own 10 guns including semi-auto rifles...


And now everyone on the interweb knows. :43:

Harrison_Bergeron
01-04-2013, 1:39 PM
As a quick sidenote - let's say that you're pulled over, and the cop demands you to open a locked container for inspection. Not requests, but demands. Do you:
-say : "Yes, officer, here you go", and accept the risk the cop will lie and say you had given him permission
-say : "I respectfully decline" and accept the likelihood of being arrested and charged with "disturbing the peace" or "interfering with investigation" or something similar

If you are talking about the authority police have to ensure a firearm is being transported safely; then yes it still exists.

However... a cop has to either see, be told, or develop some evidence that a firearm is present. There is no legal requirement that you tell a cop that a firearm is present. So keep your firearms out of plain sight and your mouth shut!

;)

When a cop thinks he knows that you have a gun it is not going to be as simple as a good lawyer getting you an apology for an unwarranted search. The penal code says that there repercussions for refusing a safety check when you have a firearm, so if they force their way into the container they believe has a firearm in it, and it does, the only way that you are going to get out of it is by challenging the whole law. It is a worthy goal, but not something that many are willing to deal with.

Ninety
01-04-2013, 2:02 PM
While it is difficult to evaluate the nature of a container without regard for the context in which it is found or the fact that the searching officer had special reasons to believe the container held contraband, we have previously decided that Robbins narrowed Sanders along these lines because otherwise the exception could swallow the warrant requirement; to apply Sanders footnote 13 without such restrictions could result in a rule that essentially permits law enforcement to conduct warrantless searches of indistinct and innocuous containers based solely on probable cause derived from the officers' subjective knowledge and the circumstances, in contravention of the well-established principle that "no amount of probable cause can justify a warrantless search or seizure absent `exigent circumstances,'" Horton v. California, 496 U.S. 128, 137 n. 7, 110 S.Ct. 2301, 110 L.Ed.2d 112 (1990). See Miller, 769 F.2d at 560 ("[T]o permit such an extension [of the exception to cases in which the contents of a container are determined by reference to the circumstances of its discovery or the experience and expertise of the police] `would increase significantly the risk of erroneous police decisions on whether there is sufficient certainty to permit a warrantless search'"); 3 LaFave § 5.5(f) ("[S]uch an extension of the Sanders footnote 13 concept [to permit searches based on an exceptionally strong showing of probable cause instead of exclusively on the nature of the container] would outrun its rationale, namely, that a person cannot claim any reasonable expectation of privacy in a container when its `outward appearance' in the circumstances in which he uses it makes it close to certain what it contains.").

from https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/405/405.F3d.797.04-30208.html

RickD427
01-04-2013, 2:17 PM
You simply say sure, may I see your warrant? In 1 circumstance can law enforcement search your locked compartments without a warrant, you allow them too. If they arrest you for it then they violated your civil rights.

Sir,

Citations please. I believe that you are considerably mistaken here. There are several circumstances that allow an officer to conduct a non-consensual search, particularly where a motor vehicle is involved (refer to U.S. v Ross, New York v Belton and Arizona v Gant for an overview). None of those exemptions go so far as to allow the officer to search based on their whim only. There's a whole bunch of rules the officer has to follow.

As for the OP's original question, having a firearm related label doesn't really change much as far as the officer's standing to do a search. The Estep case cited in Post #6 gives a good summary. In addition, where the search is based on probable cause, the probable cause has to be for something that is illegal. I cannot search your vehicle based on probable cause to believe that you have a ham sandwich in the trunk. Firearms are not illegal to possess. It does get a little sticky in California if you're in an area where the discharge of firearms is prohibited. In that case, Penal Code section 25850(b) (recodified from section 12031(e)) permits officers to inspect firearms to determine if they are loaded. Case law (refer to People v. DeLong) provides officers pretty much the same search authority (without a warrant) based on probable cause to believe a firearm, even if lawfully possessed, will be located.

If you wish to refuse a peace officer's request for a consensual search, as is your right, the best way to phrase it is "Officer, I respectfully decline to give you consent. I will not resist your search, but I do not consent." That line will not get you arrested. If the officer has no other basis for a search, plan on hearing "Have a nice day...." If the officer does have some other lawful basis for the search, stand by while he/she searches.

Please remember that it's only required that the officer have a legal standing to conduct the search. The information that forms that standing may not be apparent. There is no requirement for the officer to explain the probable cause to the subject of the search. If I could do so without compromising the investigation, I usually would. It's a professional thing to do, but it's not required.

TML
01-04-2013, 4:03 PM
If they can I should have been pulled over a LOT more then I have been!
(Once for speeding, I was)

http://www.calguns.net/CGNTruck/34front1.gif

Heh, saw you at Albertsons around New Years. Didn't want to bother you to say hi.

dantodd
01-04-2013, 4:12 PM
When a cop thinks he knows that you have a gun it is not going to be as simple as a good lawyer getting you an apology for an unwarranted search. The penal code says that there repercussions for refusing a safety check when you have a firearm, so if they force their way into the container they believe has a firearm in it, and it does, the only way that you are going to get out of it is by challenging the whole law. It is a worthy goal, but not something that many are willing to deal with.

unless you tell the officer that you have a firearm he doesn't KNOW that you have a firearm.

Refuse. Refuse. Refuse. Write it down if you have to. Never say "no" or any other singe word answer. Say "I Refuse any search." If the officer is asking it means he doesn't have enough suspicion to perform a non-consensual search.If he does have enough cause then he won't bother asking.

You will also very likely get the law challenged if the officer performs a non-consensual search of a container believing there is a firearm in it but there isn't.

gunsmith
01-04-2013, 4:12 PM
Cop: Do you have a gun in the car?
Me: Actually officer, I have five handguns in my car, they're all loaded.
Cop: Stunned silence for a few seconds, then a smile, "you have a good day, thanks".
0430 hours in Reno Nevada a few yrs ago, in a ford ranger plastered with gun stickers.

Pthfndr
01-04-2013, 8:02 PM
If the officer is asking it means he doesn't have enough suspicion to perform a non-consensual search.If he does have enough cause then he won't bother asking.

Not true. An officer will almost always ask for consent, even if they do not need the consent given. If they ask for consent and it's given, then that eliminates any issues later. Asking does not mean they do not have probable cause to conduct a non consensual search.

But it's better to not give consent. That way the LEO has to be able to articulate in his/her statement why they had probable cause to search without consent.

Sniper3142
01-04-2013, 8:03 PM
unless you tell the officer that you have a firearm he doesn't KNOW that you have a firearm.

Refuse. Refuse. Refuse. Write it down if you have to. Never say "no" or any other singe word answer. Say "I Refuse any search." If the officer is asking it means he doesn't have enough suspicion to perform a non-consensual search.If he does have enough cause then he won't bother asking.

You will also very likely get the law challenged if the officer performs a non-consensual search of a container believing there is a firearm in it but there isn't.


I agree overall with what you wrote.

But just because a cop "asks" to search, doesn't mean he hasn't already determined there is enough P.C. or R.S. for a non-consentual search. He or She might just be asking to see your reaction.

But never, never, never consent to a search. Keep all firearms and related items out of sight and never ever tell them there are firearms present!

There was a thread here a few days ago about cops (and idiotic DAs) not knowing or acknowledging that a loaded magazine was not the same as a loaded weapon. There were reports of people being arrested and charged for this non-crime.

So... to avoid all the drama with folks who don't know or understand the law (that they are supposed to be enforcing)...

JUST SAY NO!!!!!!!!

Gunlawyer
01-04-2013, 8:10 PM
If they can I should have been pulled over a LOT more then I have been!
(Once for speeding, I was)

http://www.calguns.net/CGNTruck/34front1.gif

Nice truck. I want this ^^^^^^.

Hehe.

EM2
01-04-2013, 8:52 PM
….

If you wish to refuse a peace officer's request for a consensual search, as is your right, the best way to phrase it is "Officer, I respectfully decline to give you consent. I will not resist your search, but I do not consent." That line will not get you arrested. If the officer has no other basis for a search, plan on hearing "Have a nice day...." If the officer does have some other lawful basis for the search, stand by while he/she searches.

Please remember that it's only required that the officer have a legal standing to conduct the search. The information that forms that standing may not be apparent. There is no requirement for the officer to explain the probable cause to the subject of the search. If I could do so without compromising the investigation, I usually would. It's a professional thing to do, but it's not required.



Not to pick nits here but if an officer “requests” to perform a search is he/she not implying that they do NOT have probable cause and if you then decline their “request” should you not be free to go?

I seem to recall hearing of just such a SCOTUS case out of Texas where a lady was arrested after a search that was based upon a request rather than a demand to search.

You see if the officer has probable cause they should make that statement and tell the owner they will be searching the vehicle, not ask to do so.
The subject of the stop should be dismissed immediately after they refuse to consent after a request is made because otherwise the threat of a ticket, arrest or other such action would/could be construed as intimidation in order to gain consent.

EM2
01-04-2013, 9:08 PM
If the officer is asking it means he doesn't have enough suspicion to perform a non-consensual search.If he does have enough cause then he won't bother asking.

Not true. An officer will almost always ask for consent, even if they do not need the consent given. If they ask for consent and it's given, then that eliminates any issues later. Asking does not mean they do not have probable cause to conduct a non consensual search.

But it's better to not give consent. That way the LEO has to be able to articulate in his/her statement why they had probable cause to search without consent.


It would seem some do not agree with you.
It is a complicated area of law and even the various courts cannot agree.

http://www.patc.com/weeklyarticles/vehicle_searches.shtml
The difficulty with evolving automobile consent searches is the application of varying rules among the courts. For example, some courts have suggested that consent obtained during a traffic stop is not valid due to the coercive atmosphere of the stop, prompting some to suggest that officers should wait until the stop is completed and the driver is free to leave before asking consent. The problem with this scenario is that the officer is in essence keeping the person beyond the scope that justified the stop to begin with. Prolonging a stop beyond the purpose that justified the stop to begin with seems to be exactly what the United States Supreme Court cautioned officers against in the dog-sniff case, United States v. Caballes. In Caballes the Court asserted: “A seizure that is justified solely by the interest in issuing a warning ticket to the driver can become unlawful if it is prolonged beyond the time reasonably required to complete that mission. ”

RickD427
01-04-2013, 10:19 PM
Not to pick nits here but if an officer “requests” to perform a search is he/she not implying that they do NOT have probable cause and if you then decline their “request” should you not be free to go?

I seem to recall hearing of just such a SCOTUS case out of Texas where a lady was arrested after a search that was based upon a request rather than a demand to search.

You see if the officer has probable cause they should make that statement and tell the owner they will be searching the vehicle, not ask to do so.
The subject of the stop should be dismissed immediately after they refuse to consent after a request is made because otherwise the threat of a ticket, arrest or other such action would/could be construed as intimidation in order to gain consent.

EM2,

I'm actually with Pathfinder (refer to Post #80) on this one. An officer's request for consent is just that, a request and nothing more, there is no inference that probable cause is lacking.

I'll second Pathfinder's explanation that redundancy of standing is a good thing. The problem for officers is that the determination of PC is not an exact science. We base our evaluation of the body of published case law, but as you have pointed out, that law is not entirely consistent. If I think I have PC, but the trial court later decides that I didn't really have enough, and I didn't take the time to ask for consent, my case just went away. On the other hand if I did request consent, and it was given, my case can still go forward. That's a pretty compelling reason to ask.

There are some cases where courts have found that consent was involuntarily given. Every one that I am familiar with involved some display of police power beyond that of a normal traffic stop (guns being drawn, persons being handcuffed, or the stop being extended beyond its purpose.) I cannot recall a case where voluntariness was found to be an issue in a typical, average traffic stop. If you have a case citation for such an example, please throw it down. It's helpful to the discussion on these boards.

Kid Stanislaus
01-05-2013, 12:04 AM
I guess if somebody put an ACLU sticker on my bumper they could arrest me for being 5150?:D

Excelsior
01-05-2013, 1:47 AM
ahh, I remember the good ole days when owning a gun was paramount to owning shovel

nobody cared

"tantamount"

SilverTauron
01-05-2013, 7:10 AM
We're dealing with two issues here.Legally no,a cop can't go before a judge and say a "CalGuns.Net" sticker constituted probable cause a firearm was in the car. Plenty of people who don't own weapons have stickers like that on their vehicles.That being said, what trigger the stop and what the cop tells the judge can be two different things. Ergo,a cop stops you for the sticker and then claims his fishing expidition was trigger by a " dim taillight". Before anyone jumps on my case about this, " dim taillight" was the exact reason given to me by a suburban Chicago cop who stopped me out of the blue. I spent the traffic stop in puzzlement because I literally did nothing wrong.I wasn't speeding,my tags were current,and all my lights worked.

Creeping Incrementalism
01-05-2013, 8:33 AM
Regarding gun stickers, based on my own experience and what others have said on gun boards over the years, LEO do sometimes search someone's vehicle on that basis alone, but it doesn't happen often.

Regarding the legality of it, I hope we all understand that the way police operate out in the real world often differs from our theories of how things should work. I mean, it isn't legal for police to rob people, but it seems not infrequent from what I've heard and seen for someone arrested to have cash go missing without it being logged into evidence.

Depending upon the attitude and suspicion of the law enforcement agent, saying "I've got nothing illegal in my car" when asked about guns, or "I don't consent to a search" if the cop asks if you mind if he "takes a look", will only help if the officer/deputy isn't suspicious in some other way. When you read the reports police write afterwards, if there is no video-audio recording, they often just flat-out lie about obtaining consent.

This isn't cop-bashing, but rather the truth of what goes on out there based on what people I trust have told me.

But if you appear as an upstanding citizen with a nice, clean car and don't park it in shady neighborhoods, you are not likely to encounter any problems from police or criminals just from a gun sticker.

BayAreaScott
01-05-2013, 9:59 AM
I have a couple stickers on my truck. One is the NRA Member sticker. Another is "Save Our Country No Obama 2012" and the last is a Tea Party Patriot sticker. Never had any problem but I have gotten more than a few thumbs up from LEO and general public. But then again, I never carry my guns in the truck :)

However, given the current climate I do believe that all stickers will be coming down soon.

Zedrek
01-05-2013, 12:03 PM
I have a pirate sticker on the back of my car but I've never been pulled over and asked if I had any open container's of rum or bootleg DVD's. I do sometimes have a blunderbuss and a few assorted swords and boarding axes though.

Marcus von W.
01-05-2013, 12:38 PM
Personal experiences with tired old standard cop b.s. lines to get you to let them look around. I've heard these numerous times from numerous cops over a period of years. Of course, coming from a family of cops and lawyers - half of whom were law enforcement before becoming lawyers, and being in pre-law or law school at the time of many of these events, this crap didn't catch me un-awares like it would most folks who haven't heard of it - or heard it all - before.

This one is designed to get you to open the trunk for consent/plain sight:
Cop: "I stopped you because your tail light is out".
Me: "Really? I better take a look... " (exiting vehicle and walking around to inspect the light which I already know is not defective) "No it it isn't, it's working just fine."
Cop: "Maybe the bulb is loose or there is a bad wire. Why don't you open the trunk and let's take a look and see if we can fix the problem."
Me: "Thanks, but I'll check it out when I get home."

*Now this one is designed to put you on your best and most cooperative behavior to convince the officer - who based on his statment is obviously rightfully concerned for his own safety and that of the public in general - that you are a good guy who had nothing to to with the mentioned (ficticious)crime.
Cop: "I stopped you because your car matches the description of one that was used in an armed robbery. Do you mind if I search?" (sometimes this mythical crime just occurred a few minutes ago, sometimes a few days ago, and sometimes it's a crime spree involving multiple incidents)
Me: (driving a car that is only a little less distinctive and unique than the Batmobile or the Oscar Meyer Wienermobile): "A car just like this one?"
Cop: "Yes, this exact year and model"
Me: "Well, officer, there are exactly 2 of these cars registered in California and it wasn't me, so you shouldn't have a hard time finding the guy you are looking for."

Cop: "You don't have anything illegal in your car, like guns or drugs, do you?"
Me: "Why of course not, officer? Why do you ask?"
Cop: "It's just a standard question we have to ask. Since you don't have anything to hide, do you mind if I just take a quick look? "
Me: "Yes, I do mind. I'm a 3rd year law student (law school sticker in back window and Con Law books laying in plain sight on front seat would tend to confirm this) and have a HIGH EXPECTATION OF PERSONAL PRIVACY (this is a legal buzzword that is wording from a case on the subject) for my belongings and personal effects." ....I've also answered this one by asking the cop if HE had anything to hide and would he mind if I looked around his car, and that I could consent to him snooping through my car if I could at the same time go through his - this is kind of a judgement call and if done has to be in a friendly and non-confrontational manner, as some cops immediately go on the balistic defensive at what they perceive to be any challenge to their authority.

The there is always "you swerved", "you were weaving", "you crossed the double yellow line" - usually coupled with some statement that he stopped you out of tender concern for your personal health or vehicular safety.

I've seen cops search a vehicle without consent and pull out a little bag of weed THAT I KNOW WASN'T THERE BEFORE THE COP GOT IN THE CAR and use this to justify a further search.

And that famous line in the police reports: "As I approached the vehicle, I detected the smell of burning marijuana, which I am able to identify by my training and X number of years in law enforcement". Even if no weed - either belonging to the cop or the occupants of the car - is found, the cop still has his probable cause justification for the search.

My personal all-time favorite was when the cop stopped the car, "smelled the strong odor of burning marijuana", searched the car and found the bag of weed (no one was smoking pot, there was none in the car, and the bag of it came out of the cop's pocket), then searched the rest of the car and found the stolen gun. Problem was, it turned out the "stolen gun found in the car" actually belonged to said cop, and the gun in the cop's holster - which was identical to the gun "found in the car" - turned out to be the real stolen gun.

bohoki
01-05-2013, 12:49 PM
its the same probable cause as a potleaf sticker

Marcus von W.
01-05-2013, 12:50 PM
As far as stickers, I always found that an NRA sticker on the left side of the law school sticker and a CRPA sticker on the right side added to my authority and credibility when explaining the law - in a friendly and non-confrontational manner - to law enforcement who were decent and honest people but maybe not totally up on the law.

I might add that there have been times when police asked if they could search and I consented, knowing that next time the cop saw me, he would know who I was, what I was doing, and that I had nothing illegal in my car. Sometimes the best thing to do is establish a personal relationship.

BBJohnnyT
01-05-2013, 1:18 PM
Personally, I avoid all of this baloney and have a Coexist sticker on my car. When I travel with my AR, it's broken down and stored compactly in an ugly hippie yoga mat bag similar to this.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/rf/image_r/Boston/2011-2020/2012/11/14/BostonGlobe.com/Magazine/Images/1125MAG_Style_Athleta%20roll.r.jpg

Since it's not rifle length, it never draws attention, except for disapproving glances for bad taste. You'll never see me with any gun related logos or things "tactical".
"All war is deception" - Sun Tzu

winnre
01-05-2013, 2:32 PM
This says it all.

Hlfcq7WqCyc

EM2
01-05-2013, 6:11 PM
As far as stickers, I always found that an NRA sticker on the left side of the law school sticker and a CRPA sticker on the right side added to my authority and credibility when explaining the law - in a friendly and non-confrontational manner - to law enforcement who were decent and honest people but maybe not totally up on the law.

I might add that there have been times when police asked if they could search and I consented, knowing that next time the cop saw me, he would know who I was, what I was doing, and that I had nothing illegal in my car. Sometimes the best thing to do is establish a personal relationship.



Me thinks you have way too many interactions with cops on duty.;)

I do try to avoid contact with law enforcement if at all possible.

Zedrek
01-05-2013, 6:44 PM
^^^^THIS

artoaster
01-05-2013, 6:52 PM
winnre, that was a m*ther f*c*kin funny video!

O'Brien
01-05-2013, 9:11 PM
Stick to stickers that only people who own firearms would know like the MagPul logo. It just looks like a cool design to a normal person. lol stick to stickers.

DisgruntledReaper
01-06-2013, 1:58 AM
Carry lunch in the Glock Case and carry Glock in the 'revenge of the jedi' lunch box??;):innocent::yes::whistling:

its mcgavin son
01-06-2013, 7:02 AM
This says it all.

Hlfcq7WqCyc

Wow, that dude flipped.

CSACANNONEER
01-06-2013, 7:58 AM
*Now this one is designed to put you on your best and most cooperative behavior to convince the officer - who based on his statment is obviously rightfully concerned for his own safety and that of the public in general - that you are a good guy who had nothing to to with the mentioned (ficticious)crime.
Cop: "I stopped you because your car matches the description of one that was used in an armed robbery. Do you mind if I search?" (sometimes this mythical crime just occurred a few minutes ago, sometimes a few days ago, and sometimes it's a crime spree involving multiple incidents)
Me: (driving a car that is only a little less distinctive and unique than the Batmobile or the Oscar Meyer Wienermobile): "A car just like this one?"
Cop: "Yes, this exact year and model"
Me: "Well, officer, there are exactly 2 of these cars registered in California and it wasn't me, so you shouldn't have a hard time finding the guy you are looking for."



I had one very similar to this. I was building a fence about 400 yards off the road. I had a scanner on and heard a call about an armed robbery at a donut shop about 3 miles away. The suspect car was a green on white Pontiac. I had my white on green Plymouth out in the field. Anyway, an officer pulled over and yelled to me. I pretended I didn't year him since, I had work to do and just kept working instead of walking the 1/2 mile to the road and back. He finally hopped the fence and started towards me. Aftedr he got about 1/2 way, I looked up and started walking towards him with my palms facing him and my arms straight out so that my hands wouldn't be below the brush line. When we got close enough to talk, I spoke first.

I said: "It's a white on green Plymouth not a green on white Pontiac."
He said: "Do you have a scanner?"
I sad: "Yes"
He then asked what I was doing and I told him that I was building a new fence. He just turned around and walked away never getting within less than 20 feet of me.

Kid Stanislaus
01-06-2013, 6:52 PM
But if you appear as an upstanding citizen with a nice, clean car and don't park it in shady neighborhoods, you are not likely to encounter any problems from police or criminals just from a gun sticker.

I'll bet that's great comfort to black and brown people who don't live in a nice clean "white" neighborhood!!:rolleyes:

Gromulin
01-06-2013, 6:57 PM
IDEA: don't put a sticker on it and you'll never ha e to find out. MOST people don't know I own a gun. SOME people know I own a handgun to protect my family. ONLY MY CLOSEST FRIENDS know I own 10 guns including semi-auto rifles...

GIVE THIS MAN A CIGAR. (Cuban, Cohiba, Pre-ban :D)

Seriously, why would you advertise ANYTHING like gun ownership on your freakin vehicle? Put it right next to the "Bad Cop, No Donut" sticker...yeah, that'll show them!

Pay cash, keep your mouth shut and your head down. There be a storm coming. :oji:

(Post Script Confession - I did have an inconspicuous NRA sticker on my old Subaru Outback, but that was just to piss off the other Outback and/or Prius owners at stoplights)

HatersLOVEme : )
01-06-2013, 7:44 PM
I'll bet that's great comfort to black and brown people who don't live in a nice clean "white" neighborhood!!:rolleyes:

Um there are poor white neighborhoods too it doesn't have anything to do with being black or brown way to pay the race card though :rofl:

katty
01-31-2013, 5:19 AM
I would like to say that it is very bad to keep arms illegally. I won't like to keep arms in my vehicle and won't like to suggest anyone to keep these products without any prior permission of the state...

EM2
01-31-2013, 6:45 AM
I would like to say that it is very bad to keep arms illegally. I won't like to keep arms in my vehicle and won't like to suggest anyone to keep these products without any prior permission of the state...


You are not likely to find many here who actively advocate anyone violate the law and also not as likely to find many here who would make this statement, "prior permission of the state".
For the most part we are a freedom loving liberty oriented group here and I did not see anyone suggest that another person should "keep arms illegally".
The original post was whether or not a LEO could violate our 4th amendment rights for exercising our 1st amendment rights.

choprzrul
01-31-2013, 7:17 AM
And you might have your lunch in that Glock-embossed tupperware. If they want to see what's in the box, they need probable cause, or a warrant (for which they are supposed to explain their probable cause).

Doesn't mean an investigator won't try.


^^THIS^^

I took a Springfield 1911 blue factory case and made it into my lunch box. I put a small 3 digit master lock on it.

I'm just waiting for LE to force their way in to inspect contents without any other probable cause.

.

ElDub1950
01-31-2013, 7:26 AM
I don't avoid gun stickers on my car because I'm concerned about cops.

I avoid gun stickers on my car because it's a big flag saying "Hey break into my car I might have a gun in there!"

chris
01-31-2013, 7:28 AM
I have my Iraq war veteran sticker on the back window of my truck and never get bothered.I