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kjgun
01-03-2013, 12:39 PM
My employee manual says something to the effect of (not exact language):

Visitors and Employees may not carry weapons onto the company premises. Also, mentions do not brandish it in front of others or talk about weapons.

It's vague as it doesn't say building, land, etc. But it's a private company.

Would like to leave it in the trunk of the car in a locked case to go to the range during lunch or after work w/o going home first. I read that there's no "destination" requirement for handguns and rifles (not registered assault rifles).

So besides everyone who will just say 'leave it in the car and you're good to go!' Or 'Just don't risk it and go home and then to the range!' But in the off chance there is some issue someday (i.e. break in, car is searched (not that I would consent), etc.), anyone have thoughts? I think I would be fine if it is found as it's stored in the car by the law. But then could just cause issues with the HR people at my super sensitive company.

bwiese
01-03-2013, 12:44 PM
Your company parking lot, their rules, your ***.

stix213
01-03-2013, 12:45 PM
Park on the street

myk
01-03-2013, 12:47 PM
Yes, just make sure your company policies do not include firearms restrictions in the parking lots as well. Luckily, at my job, the parking lot is a public one not controlled by the company so they have no jurisdiction there; just inside the building...

kaligaran
01-03-2013, 12:54 PM
It's not a law to follow private property anti-carry policies but by doing so you would be risking your job and it's also a matter of respect for the property owner.
Clearly NOT recommended. I think many people ignore these policies for car carry while at work. Again, I'm not recommending anything that would breach company policy and lose your job.

An alternative would be to park off site (metered parking, public garage if available, etc).

jojo8080
01-03-2013, 12:55 PM
Sounds like private lot still the company's rules but street parking is ok. My dads office is next to a school. How would this work. Not in the private lot, not in the street, but down the road outside of the gfsz

SGTKane
01-03-2013, 12:57 PM
When I lived there and used my CCW, I had to park on the street and leave the weapon there if I wanted to keep my job. I freak'n hated it and spent many a day worried that someone would break into my car and make off with the weapon.

Eventually I decided it was worth the risk of losing my job to park in our secure patrolled parking lot and leave the weapon there. But that was my choice and it ceased to be a problem when I moved to New Hampshire :)

HapaMan
01-03-2013, 12:57 PM
Yeah, I know some people who at times keep LUCC firearms in their vehicles at work....:whistling:

myk
01-03-2013, 1:27 PM
Yeah, I know some people who at times keep LUCC firearms in their vehicles at work....:whistling:

Honestly, with all of the guns and owners in the country I've started to wonder just which vehicles are so equipped...

ScottB
01-03-2013, 1:31 PM
Park on the street

and keep your trap shut about it. No show and tell at lunch either.

bill_k_lopez
01-03-2013, 1:32 PM
Under what condition would you be subject to allowing your EMPLOYER to search your vehicle?

End of story.

LCU1670
01-03-2013, 1:36 PM
My job is the same, I hate leaving my weapon in the car.

LooseCannon
01-03-2013, 1:59 PM
Park on the street

This is the only acceptable answer where I work, whether it's guns or ammo, but very few people talk about it.

LC

myk
01-03-2013, 2:25 PM
Under what condition would you be subject to allowing your EMPLOYER to search your vehicle?

End of story.

Yeah, gotta be careful about that one. All it would take is one call to 'HR or upper management and they'd have the right to search your vehicle; I know they would in my company...

johnny1290
01-03-2013, 7:08 PM
Similar situation happened to a friend, except he worked at a studio. He forgot they randomly search car trunks at the guard shack when you leave.

Thank god security gave him a pass or didn't recognize the case.

hellayella
01-04-2013, 5:29 AM
why risk your livelihood; keep them at home..is there a sense of bravado in leaving your firearms in the car of your employer's parking lot that forbids having them there...

SilverTauron
01-04-2013, 5:41 AM
Under what condition would you be subject to allowing your EMPLOYER to search your vehicle?

End of story.

Not so fast.


"As a Condition of Employment you authorize management to search your vehicle. If you refuse consent to search it is grounds for immediate termination."

In plain English you can say no to a search as per the 4th Amendment. THEY in return can say no to you having a job.

If the OP wants to retain his employment, leave the gun at home and do not discuss any gun-related topics at work.

LCU1670
01-04-2013, 6:01 AM
why risk your livelihood; keep them at home..is there a sense of bravado in leaving your firearms in the car of your employer's parking lot that forbids having them there...

Because I live in a dangerous area, and I have to get to and from work.

ClarenceBoddicker
01-04-2013, 6:58 AM
Park on the street & STFU.

Roushee97
01-04-2013, 7:03 AM
Shhhhhh.....

Ninety
01-04-2013, 7:10 AM
Not so fast.


"As a Condition of Employment you authorize management to search your vehicle. If you refuse consent to search it is grounds for immediate termination."

In plain English you can say no to a search as per the 4th Amendment. THEY in return can say no to you having a job.

If the OP wants to retain his employment, leave the gun at home and do not discuss any gun-related topics at work.

This is the main answer to this question and if your company has a no weapons policy.. while on company property, they most likely have the right to search your vehicle .. I'm not sure if they have to be specific in what they are searching for, like a warrant.. At my old company they on occasion searched an employee's vehicle who was suspected of "theft" .. . . Bolt a safe down in the trunk and park on the street ??

movie zombie
01-04-2013, 7:13 AM
sounds like you need a CCW.

my understanding is you may transport your gun to and from a range and/or between properties you own or reside in and/or between your residence and that of perhaps gun friendly relative/friend that knows you have the gun and has given you permission to be there with it.

traveling to and from work with a gun is not permissible unless you have a CCW. even if you park on the street you're going to have to explain why you had a gun in the car if you report a break in or your car is stolen or someone plows into it.

why are you not applying for a CCW?

bill_k_lopez
01-04-2013, 7:28 AM
This is the main answer to this question and if your company has a no weapons policy.. while on company property, they most likely have the right to search your vehicle .. I'm not sure if they have to be specific in what they are searching for, like a warrant.. At my old company they on occasion searched an employee's vehicle who was suspected of "theft" .. . . Bolt a safe down in the trunk and park on the street ??

Seems to me like a lot of people confuse what "rights" are, and how things really work.

First: Your employer can't get a warrant to do anything, unless you work for the County Sheriff’s department because warrants are directed to a police officer to do something that would normally be illegal or violate your personal rights.

Second: Your employer doesn't have the "right" to search your car, they can "ask" to search your car and you are under zero legal obligation to allow them to do so.

Could they terminate you for refusing to allow them to search? Its California - of course they can, they could also terminate you because its a Thursday, or because they don't like your shoes - and they aren't required to give you a reason, all they have to do is pay you out and say goodbye.

Lastly: If you were terminated from employment for refusing to allow them to search your vehicle - I can refer you to some very good lawyers that would love to take your case.

hakenlag
01-04-2013, 7:44 AM
Wow. It's no wonder we live in a police state considering what BS people are willing to take.

therealnickb
01-04-2013, 7:47 AM
sounds like you need a CCW.

my understanding is you may transport your gun to and from a range and/or between properties you own or reside in and/or between your residence and that of perhaps gun friendly relative/friend that knows you have the gun and has given you permission to be there with it.

traveling to and from work with a gun is not permissible unless you have a CCW. even if you park on the street you're going to have to explain why you had a gun in the car if you report a break in or your car is stolen or someone plows into it.

why are you not applying for a CCW?

I didn't get the same interpretation.
Pretty sure you can transport between any legal destinations.

Sfo94450
01-04-2013, 7:59 AM
It's pretty simple the OP works for a company that has some sort of policy against have weapons at WORK.
Whether it vague or not the company has the lawyers and the backing of past practices behind them.
If the OP is looking for a reason or justification to have weapons on the property then he or she will lose.
The company cannot make exceptions for any reason then all employees will have reasons to bypass this policy.
Not worth the hassle to prove you wanna be right.
Remember they sign your paycheck.


Sent from dennis' iPad using Tapatalk HD

therealnickb
01-04-2013, 8:00 AM
My employee manual says something to the effect of (not exact language):

Visitors and Employees may not carry weapons onto the company premises. Also, mentions do not brandish it in front of others or talk about weapons.

It's vague as it doesn't say building, land, etc. But it's a private company.

Would like to leave it in the trunk of the car in a locked case to go to the range during lunch or after work w/o going home first. I read that there's no "destination" requirement for handguns and rifles (not registered assault rifles).

So besides everyone who will just say 'leave it in the car and you're good to go!' Or 'Just don't risk it and go home and then to the range!' But in the off chance there is some issue someday (i.e. break in, car is searched (not that I would consent), etc.), anyone have thoughts? I think I would be fine if it is found as it's stored in the car by the law. But then could just cause issues with the HR people at my super sensitive company.

Have they ever searched a car? That's how I would decide.

Saym14
01-04-2013, 8:03 AM
sounds like you could get fired for this. but not charged with breaking a law. then again if you are not stupid and the gun is locked and hidden in the trunk and you dont open it on the premises, who is going to know ? unless your employeer conducts suprise trunk searches ?

therealnickb
01-04-2013, 8:04 AM
It's pretty simple the OP works for a company that has some sort of policy against have weapons at WORK.
Whether it vague or not the company has the lawyers and the backing of past practices behind them.
If the OP is looking for a reason or justification to have weapons on the property then he or she will lose.
The company cannot make exceptions for any reason then all employees will have reasons to bypass this policy.
Not worth the hassle to prove you wanna be right.
Remember they sign your paycheck.


Sent from dennis' iPad using Tapatalk HD

Vague does matter. When a one sided contracted is disputed because its ambiguous, the party that wrote the contract usually loses.

But as you correctly pointed out, it will probably cost you to prevail.

TeddyBallgame
01-04-2013, 8:13 AM
sounds like you need a CCW.

my understanding is you may transport your gun to and from a range and/or between properties you own or reside in and/or between your residence and that of perhaps gun friendly relative/friend that knows you have the gun and has given you permission to be there with it.

traveling to and from work with a gun is not permissible unless you have a CCW. even if you park on the street you're going to have to explain why you had a gun in the car if you report a break in or your car is stolen or someone plows into it.

why are you not applying for a CCW?is that true? honestly i transport (legally) very often, even when not heading to the range

IronWorksTactical
01-04-2013, 8:20 AM
It's not a law to follow private property anti-carry policies but by doing so you would be risking your job and it's also a matter of respect for the property owner.
Clearly NOT recommended. I think many people ignore these policies for car carry while at work. Again, I'm not recommending anything that would breach company policy and lose your job.

An alternative would be to park off site (metered parking, public garage if available, etc).

I'm not sure on this. Even LEOSA says that a private property owner or lessee can prohibit of duty LEOs from carrying on their property provided its not in line of their duties. I believe private property such as their parking lot can press charges if they desired if its expressly prohibited by that owner lessee. Totally open for debate on this but that's my understanding.

Sfo94450
01-04-2013, 8:26 AM
Vague does matter. When a one sided contracted is disputed because its ambiguous, the party that wrote the contract usually loses.

But as you correctly pointed out, it will probably cost you to prevail.

True
It's harder if the employee acknowledges or signed for having the company policy, they admit to having knowledge of the what's written in company handbook.

It would easier not to take that chance IMO.

I use to work for an airline with same vague policy, my friends and I took our guns to work knowing the policy, we just didn't tell anyone....never got caught!


Sent from dennis' iPad using Tapatalk HD

Decoligny
01-04-2013, 8:40 AM
PREMESIS: A house or building, together with its land and outbuildings, occupied by a business or considered in an official context.

If the manual says "Premesis", then that means the building and the land, the entire company property.

You have to weigh the possibility of being found out, and losing your job for violating company policy against the benefit of being able to go to the range at will.


My employee manual says something to the effect of (not exact language):

Visitors and Employees may not carry weapons onto the company premises. Also, mentions do not brandish it in front of others or talk about weapons.

It's vague as it doesn't say building, land, etc. But it's a private company.

Would like to leave it in the trunk of the car in a locked case to go to the range during lunch or after work w/o going home first. I read that there's no "destination" requirement for handguns and rifles (not registered assault rifles).

So besides everyone who will just say 'leave it in the car and you're good to go!' Or 'Just don't risk it and go home and then to the range!' But in the off chance there is some issue someday (i.e. break in, car is searched (not that I would consent), etc.), anyone have thoughts? I think I would be fine if it is found as it's stored in the car by the law. But then could just cause issues with the HR people at my super sensitive company.

TheDeej
01-04-2013, 8:45 AM
Where I work there's a no weapons on property period rule, handed down by the BATF. We can be subject to vehicle searches at any time. I would never risk my job over it, but I would have no reason to bring a weapon seeing as the range I go to is in the opposite direction and I'd have to pass by home to get there.

Decoligny
01-04-2013, 8:49 AM
This is the main answer to this question and if your company has a no weapons policy.. while on company property, they most likely have the right to search your vehicle .. I'm not sure if they have to be specific in what they are searching for, like a warrant.. At my old company they on occasion searched an employee's vehicle who was suspected of "theft" .. . . Bolt a safe down in the trunk and park on the street ??

No, they do not have the RIGHT to search your vehicle. If they enter your vehicle after you say no, that is breaking and entering, or burglary, not sure which applies.

They may have a written agreement with you that you will allow them to search your vehicle, but if you say no, that overrides any previous agreement and they can't search it.

They can however call the police and if the police deem that there is probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, they can search the vehicle.

The problem is, having a legally stored firearm in your vehicle is not a crime.

So, it they "demanded" to search your vehicle, and you told them to go pound sand, you would most likely be out of a job.

SGTKane
01-04-2013, 8:57 AM
Just to be clear about one other point here, a CCW does not exempt you from your employers right to fire you. In California, as has been noted they can fire you for it being Tuesday. They don't need to provide a reason, and a lot of employers won't.

They'll fire you, pay you what they owe you and you are out the door. They don't want to run into a situation where you were fired for something someone else was doing as well (for example if they fire you because you had a firearm locked in your trunk, but not another guy who also had a firearm in his trunk), because then you do have a case.

So the smart employer just lets you go. May not even term it a firing.

Now I don't advocate that anyone violate company policy or do anything that would put their employment at risk. That is a personal decision that should be made by each individual.

And with all that said, I'm a firm believer that everyone who can, should have a CCW and carry as often as possible.

why risk your livelihood

That comment disturbs me. Risk your livelihood or your life. Is it better to be unemployed or dead? Even in this economy to me, that isn't that hard of a question.

Maestro Pistolero
01-04-2013, 8:59 AM
Yeah, gotta be careful about that one. All it would take is one call to 'HR or upper management and they'd have the right to search your vehicle; I know they would in my company...

Not the right to search your vehicle . . . the right to fire you if you refused.

10mm
01-04-2013, 9:11 AM
In the case you make a mistake and show it to a company employee and they report it you will probably lose your job. In this political climate going to the range while at lunch is asking for trouble. For one you stand the risk of bieng followed by a private investigator if your under suspicion. If your willing to test the boundaries set by your employer then by all means go for it. Otherwise wait to get home or go on your day off.

Decoligny
01-04-2013, 9:11 AM
sounds like you need a CCW.

my understanding is you may transport your gun to and from a range and/or between properties you own or reside in and/or between your residence and that of perhaps gun friendly relative/friend that knows you have the gun and has given you permission to be there with it.

traveling to and from work with a gun is not permissible unless you have a CCW. even if you park on the street you're going to have to explain why you had a gun in the car if you report a break in or your car is stolen or someone plows into it.

why are you not applying for a CCW?

100% erroneous information here.

The PC 25400 makes it illegal to carry a concealable firearm concealed without an LTC.

This section exempts you from PC 25400 if your gun is locked up and unloaded in your car.

25610. (a) Section 25400 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with the provisions listed in Section 16580.

PC 25505 through 25595 deal with specific expemtions for transporting/carrying a firearm while NOT using a motor vehicle. This is where the destination requirements are found.

So if you intend to carry an unloaded firearm in a locked case on a bicycle, you must be going to a specific place, the range, a gun show, a gunsmith, etc., and you can't leave the gun strapped to the bike.

If you intend to carry an unloaded firearm in a locked case in your car, you can go pretty much anywhere you can legally possess a firearm, and you can leave it locked up in your car.

Decoligny
01-04-2013, 9:17 AM
Where I work there's a no weapons on property period rule, handed down by the BATF. We can be subject to vehicle searches at any time. I would never risk my job over it, but I would have no reason to bring a weapon seeing as the range I go to is in the opposite direction and I'd have to pass by home to get there.

Similar to where I work. On base, it is clearly stated that all vehicles and personnel are subject to search by Security Forces at any time. If you refuse, then they simply contact the Base Commander, who has the authority to issue a search warrent for anywhere on his base. Military, Civilian, Contractor, Retiree, Dependant, or any Guest are all subject to this.

tintguy
01-04-2013, 9:57 AM
Wow the founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves! Everyone is making excuses of why not to carry. "My job blah blah blah". Unless you work for the goverment that's fine but not one of you have said what if I get caught without it? Your job or your life? I'm not trolling just saying.

tintguy
01-04-2013, 10:09 AM
prS_QpGIB8Q

SilverTauron
01-04-2013, 11:50 AM
Wow the founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves! Everyone is making excuses of why not to carry. "My job blah blah blah". Unless you work for the goverment that's fine but not one of you have said what if I get caught without it? Your job or your life? I'm not trolling just saying.

Let's be realistic: the odds if being attacked at work are much lower then the likelihood of your gun being accidentally discovered by a coworker or boss.

Here's a situation. You leave for the day and a co-worker runs asking for help. Her car needs a jump, and you go to the trunk to get a set of cables..when your coworker spots the case marked "GLOCK". She calls your boss 2 hours later, and the next morning you're sacked.You might not even be told why you lost your job either.

movie zombie
01-04-2013, 3:48 PM
thanks for the correction. and it is worth repeating. i think i'm just overly paranoid and about 1-a car being stolen and/or broken into [have had both happen] and/or 2-LE stop and having to go through "the drill" and thus have chosen to interpret very very narrowly.

100% erroneous information here.

The PC 25400 makes it illegal to carry a concealable firearm concealed without an LTC.

This section exempts you from PC 25400 if your gun is locked up and unloaded in your car.

25610. (a) Section 25400 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with the provisions listed in Section 16580.

PC 25505 through 25595 deal with specific expemtions for transporting/carrying a firearm while NOT using a motor vehicle. This is where the destination requirements are found.

So if you intend to carry an unloaded firearm in a locked case on a bicycle, you must be going to a specific place, the range, a gun show, a gunsmith, etc., and you can't leave the gun strapped to the bike.

If you intend to carry an unloaded firearm in a locked case in your car, you can go pretty much anywhere you can legally possess a firearm, and you can leave it locked up in your car.

razr
01-04-2013, 4:57 PM
Are you going to the range every day?

supernachos
01-04-2013, 7:01 PM
The No-firearms rule was clearly laid out by our HR department in a general meeting here in the California office. No firearms within the premises period. Instant dismissal if caught... Zero tolerance!!!!

BUT...

The HR lady qualified the statement saying that due to Texas state law, the No-firearms rule was not applicable to the employees working in our branch offices in the state of Texas as long as the firearms are stored in the trunk of their vehicles when on the premises.

Those Texans ... :smilielol5:

therealnickb
01-04-2013, 7:14 PM
True
It's harder if the employee acknowledges or signed for having the company policy, they admit to having knowledge of the what's written in company handbook.

It would easier not to take that chance IMO.

I use to work for an airline with same vague policy, my friends and I took our guns to work knowing the policy, we just didn't tell anyone....never got caught!


Sent from dennis' iPad using Tapatalk HD

2 keys points you made.

1) Yes it's harder when you sign something, but.. Ambiguity is the key. If you have no say in an unclear agreement, you can prevail. But again.. It will cost money to contest.

2) you pays your money and you takes your chances.

Gunlawyer
01-04-2013, 7:28 PM
My employee manual says something to the effect of (not exact language):

Visitors and Employees may not carry weapons onto the company premises. Also, mentions do not brandish it in front of others or talk about weapons.

It's vague as it doesn't say building, land, etc. But it's a private company.

Would like to leave it in the trunk of the car in a locked case to go to the range during lunch or after work w/o going home first. I read that there's no "destination" requirement for handguns and rifles (not registered assault rifles).

So besides everyone who will just say 'leave it in the car and you're good to go!' Or 'Just don't risk it and go home and then to the range!' But in the off chance there is some issue someday (i.e. break in, car is searched (not that I would consent), etc.), anyone have thoughts? I think I would be fine if it is found as it's stored in the car by the law. But then could just cause issues with the HR people at my super sensitive company.

Make sure you dont park on the "company premises". The meaning of premises as is usually in a deed means the entire tract of land they own ( buildings, parking lots, vacant land adjacent to buildings they own to the lot line). From merium-websters it means, " a tract of land with the buildings thereon."

Park outside company premises if you have any firearms. Keep in mind that employees are generally employed "at will" amd can be fired withoit ANY cause for ANY reason so even if you do this and park outside, if you find that your supervisors are anti2a then might end up unemployed. Just my two cents.

Josh.Ollar
01-04-2013, 7:40 PM
i work in a federal building and the parking lot is also covered under the law so im forced to park out on the street

DuknBucks
01-04-2013, 8:17 PM
:D:D I am counting my blessings....it wasn't always like this... years of talking about guns and why i love them (me and several other gun nuts in the office)

Next week I am taking the HR director to an indoor gun range to try out his new Glock23...

Several weeks ago I took the CEO shooting for the first time.....he now owns a handgun (his first)

Our CFO just bought his first few guns.....:D:D:D

in a few weeks going to take a Carbine class with all three! :cool2::cool2::cool2::

they still wont let me EDC but im cool with leaving it in the car when i do....
Ill keep working on it ;)

fizux
01-04-2013, 10:18 PM
Similar to where I work. On base, it is clearly stated that all vehicles and personnel are subject to search by Security Forces at any time. If you refuse, then they simply contact the Base Commander, who has the authority to issue a search warrent for anywhere on his base. Military, Civilian, Contractor, Retiree, Dependant, or any Guest are all subject to this.

That's a very different scenario - Feds vs. private employer. Not even TX (and other employee trunk protection states) law can overrule the CG's policy.

I remember the day after a parking lot policy letter came out, I decided to park way out in a leased private overflow lot just off the edge of federal land, along with the same 20 other cars that mysteriously didn't take the 900 on-post spots that were way closer.

That lasted until about two days after the next change of command, which was the limit of the new boss's sense of humor in joining us for the "long walk of shame."