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View Full Version : Newbie here selling some rifles, Cash and Carry, how does it work?


huntingsocal
01-03-2013, 12:22 PM
Hi guys,

I've got a couple rifles up for sale in the private firearms forum and I'm getting a lot of questions about "cash and carry"

One is Mosin M44 built in 1953 and the other a Mauser built in 1943 (I think, trying to verify that)

I don't have any sort of FFL at all and put in the description that I want to do local PPT at a gun store but again, getting lots of "cash and carry" questions so wondering how that works and if I'd be able to do it or if I need to sell through FFL since I don't have one.

Thanks guys!

emcon5
01-03-2013, 12:38 PM
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#Buying_f rom_a_Private_Party_-_PPT

Scroll down to "Buying from a Private Party WITHOUT a Dealer "

Long gun over 50 years old, both parties CA residents, buyer hands you money, you hand them rifle.

It probably isn't a bad idea to see something to verify their identity/resident status, and get a bill of sale, but it is not required.

morrcarr67
01-03-2013, 12:40 PM
You can sell long guns that are 50 years old or older without using a FFL for transfer.

It is recommended that you get a Bill of Sale signed and you have to verify that the person you're selling to is a CA resident or has a C&R FFL.

morrcarr67
01-03-2013, 12:42 PM
5 typed faster than I did.

huntingsocal
01-03-2013, 12:44 PM
Thanks gents,
Gotta love www.calguns.net to help me keep all of this straight. I'll update the listing accordingly

knucklehead0202
01-03-2013, 11:48 PM
no big deal, after you do it once you'll feel much more confident, especially once you meet and BS with some good calgunners. there are some weird ones, but 99% that i've dealt with have been super-cool, which is heartening. this is both buying and selling, mostly buying but i have sold a few things and it's always been a good experience. best of luck!

Quiet
01-04-2013, 5:40 AM
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#Buying_f rom_a_Private_Party_-_PPT

Scroll down to "Buying from a Private Party WITHOUT a Dealer "

Long gun over 50 years old, both parties CA residents, buyer hands you money, you hand them rifle.

It probably isn't a bad idea to see something to verify their identity/resident status, and get a bill of sale, but it is not required.
You can sell long guns that are 50 years old or older without using a FFL for transfer.

It is recommended that you get a Bill of Sale signed and you have to verify that the person you're selling to is a CA resident or has a C&R FFL.

Keep in mind that the above is only valid for one more year. [PC 27965]

Starting 01-01-2014, it only valid for people who have a C&R (Type 03) FFL and a COE. [PC 27966]



Penal Code 27965
(a) If all of the following requirements are satisfied, Section 27545 does not apply to the sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm:
(1) The sale, loan, or transfer is infrequent, as defined in Section 16730.
(2) The firearm is not a handgun.
(3) The firearm is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date but is not a replica, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.
(b) This section shall remain in effect only until January 1, 2014, and as of that date is repealed, unless a later enacted statute, that is enacted before January 1, 2014, deletes or extends that date.

Penal Code 27966
Commencing January 1, 2014, if all of the following requirements are satisfied, Section 27545 shall not apply to the sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm:
(a) The sale, loan, or transfer is infrequent, as defined in Section 16730.
(b) The firearm is not a handgun.
(c) The firearm is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.
(d) The person receiving the firearm has a current certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to Section 26710.
(e) The person receiving the firearm is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued thereto.
(f) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, the person to whom it is transferred shall forward by prepaid mail, or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this section shall be provided to them by the department.

boltmopar
01-04-2013, 7:16 AM
I don't want to thread jack, but at the same time I didn't want to start a new thread. I have my FFL03 and COE, and have a couple of questions.

I bought a couple of long guns that are C&R, but did not purchase them with my C&R, I did so before I got it. Do I have to log those into my bound book if I sell them?

Is barrel length part of the original configuration? (I bought a Ithaca 37 feathjerlite with a cut down barrel.)

What constitutes using the C&R for business? (If buy several rifles to pick out the best one, what can I charge for the others?)

And finally, any leads on a CZ52?

-hanko
01-04-2013, 7:52 AM
I bought a couple of long guns that are C&R, but did not purchase them with my C&R, I did so before I got it. Do I have to log those into my bound book if I sell them?
]NO. I did log my pre-C&R guns into the bound book, but noted them purchased before I was licensed...little bit easier that way if/when I ever sell them.

Since you are licensed, you'll need to put buyer's info into your bound book also.[/B]

Is barrel length part of the original configuration? (I bought a Ithaca 37 feathjerlite with a cut down barrel.)
Barrel length does not need to be noted...maker and model is OK.

What constitutes using the C&R for business? (If buy several rifles to pick out the best one, what can I charge for the others?)
You ought to go back and read the pile of stuff ATF sent you around the time you received your license...

C&R specifically prohibits operating a business, but you are allowed to buy/sell to "improve your collection"...that's what you're doing based on your post. ATF does not quantify a limit in that regard. You can charge anything you like.

And finally, any leads on a CZ52?

Maybe;)...how 'bout an arsenal conversion (CZ did it) to 9mm, 3 mags ($30/each), finish and function are perfect.

$275 + shipping (from Idaho) to your CA ffl.

Email me (no PM, please) if this sounds workable...she's basically a safe-queen; originally purchased from Dennis Kroh/Empire Arms in the mid-1990's. Your ffl needs to be willing to accept shipment from C&R licensee, pmt within 7 business days via USPS money order only, gun will ship via your choice of common carrier within 2 business days of bank clearing money order. If you'd like to discuss, please email me a working phone number.

CaliB&R
01-04-2013, 7:53 AM
I don't want to thread jack, but at the same time I didn't want to start a new thread. I have my FFL03 and COE, and have a couple of questions.

I bought a couple of long guns that are C&R, but did not purchase them with my C&R, I did so before I got it. Do I have to log those into my bound book if I sell them?

Is barrel length part of the original configuration? (I bought a Ithaca 37 feathjerlite with a cut down barrel.)

What constitutes using the C&R for business? (If buy several rifles to pick out the best one, what can I charge for the others?)

And finally, any leads on a CZ52?

Yes, but you can put 'Acquired prior to license' or 'From personal collection'

Dont know for sure about barrel length, but with the ATF saying barreled receivers aren't C&R, I'd guess cut down barrels are a no-no as well.

Buying with the intention of selling or selling regularly with the intention of making a profit is a no-go. Buying several (usually at discount) to keep the best for your collection and selling off the others is ok.

Nope sorry.

boltmopar
01-04-2013, 8:05 AM
Maybe;)...how 'bout an arsenal conversion (CZ did it) to 9mm, 3 mags ($30/each), finish and function are perfect.

$275 + shipping (from Idaho) to your CA ffl.

Email me (no PM, please) if this sounds workable...she's basically a safe-queen; originally purchased from Dennis Kroh/Empire Arms in the mid-1990's. Your ffl needs to be willing to accept shipment from C&R licensee, pmt within 7 business days via USPS money order only, gun will ship via your choice of common carrier within 2 business days of bank clearing money order. If you'd like to discuss, please email me a working phone number.

If I can find an FFL cheap enough, I would interested. Right now it looks like I would spend about 100 just to bring it in. But I will keep you in mind, Thanks.

boltmopar
01-04-2013, 8:11 AM
@CaliB&R

Dont know for sure about barrel length, but with the ATF saying barreled receivers aren't C&R, I'd guess cut down barrels are a no-no as well.

Ok, because I was thinking of selling my ithaca, and the barrel hasa been cut down to 18.5. I was unsure if it was cash and carry.


Buying with the intention of selling or selling regularly with the intention of making a profit is a no-go. Buying several (usually at discount) to keep the best for your collection and selling off the others is ok.

Ok, I was just unsure how much I could charge. I assume that if I charge enough to recoup my shipping costs, I will be in the clear right?

For some reason I couldn't quote you.

emcon5
01-04-2013, 9:47 AM
The Ithaca 37 came with a variety of barrel lengths, I wouldn't consider that disqualifying, assuming you have reasonable proof it is over 50 years old.

ATF's ruling 85-10 (http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-85-10.pdf) doesn't mention barreled receivers, just actions and frames, and "Original military configuration"

Not sure how that would apply to a civilian shotgun.

boltmopar
01-04-2013, 10:42 AM
The Ithaca 37 came with a variety of barrel lengths, I wouldn't consider that disqualifying, assuming you have reasonable proof it is over 50 years old.

ATF's ruling 85-10 (http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-85-10.pdf) doesn't mention barreled receivers, just actions and frames, and "Original military configuration"

Not sure how that would apply to a civilian shotgun.

Ok thank you. I just wasn't sure if I could sell it as C&R or had to go through FFL01.