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-aK-
08-22-2007, 4:52 PM
Link to the thread that prompted me to post here.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=4315&forum_id=12&jump_to=66670#p66670

Basically I'm wondering what you guys think about pc 626.9 or the gun free school zone act of 1995.

Does this section restrict you from have an unloaded unlocked shotgun or other regular long gun either on your person or in your vehicle when within 1000ft of a school?
Hand guns/concealable only or all firearms?

Code cited in next post.

-aK-
08-22-2007, 4:53 PM
626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private
property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private
property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the
firearm is otherwise lawful.
(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked
container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in
accordance with state law.
(3) When the person possessing the firearm reasonably believes
that he or she is in grave danger because of circumstances forming
the basis of a current restraining order issued by a court against
another person or persons who has or have been found to pose a threat
to his or her life or safety. This subdivision may not apply when
the circumstances involve a mutual restraining order issued pursuant
to Division 10 (commencing with Section 6200) of the Family Code
absent a factual finding of a specific threat to the person's life or
safety. Upon a trial for violating subdivision (b), the trier of a
fact shall determine whether the defendant was acting out of a
reasonable belief that he or she was in grave danger.
(4) When the person is exempt from the prohibition against
carrying a concealed firearm pursuant to subdivision (b), (d), (e),
or (h) of Section 12027.
(d) Except as provided in subdivision (b), it shall be unlawful
for any person, with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to
discharge, or attempt to discharge, a firearm in a school zone, as
defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (e).
The prohibition contained in this subdivision does not apply to
the discharge of a firearm to the extent that the conditions of
paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) are satisfied.
(e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall
apply:
(1) "School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public
or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1
to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the
grounds of the public or private school.
(2) "Firearm" has the same meaning as that term is given in
Section 12001.
(3) "Locked container" has the same meaning as that term is given
in subdivision (c) of Section 12026.1.
(4) "Concealed firearm" has the same meaning as that term is given
in Sections 12025 and 12026.1.
(f) (1) Any person who violates subdivision (b) by possessing a
firearm in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school
providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive,
shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three,
or five years.
(2) Any person who violates subdivision (b) by possessing a
firearm within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public
or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1
to 12, inclusive, shall be punished as follows:
(A) By imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or five
years, if any of the following circumstances apply:
(i) If the person previously has been convicted of any felony, or
of any crime made punishable by Chapter 1 (commencing with Section
12000) of Title 2 of Part 4.
(ii) If the person is within a class of persons prohibited from
possessing or acquiring a firearm pursuant to Section 12021 or
12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and
Institutions Code.
(iii) If the firearm is any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person and the offense is
punished as a felony pursuant to Section 12025.
(B) By imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year or
by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or five years,
in all cases other than those specified in subparagraph (A).
(3) Any person who violates subdivision (d) shall be punished by
imprisonment in the state prison for three, five, or seven years.
(g) (1) Every person convicted under this section for a
misdemeanor violation of subdivision (b) who has been convicted
previously of a misdemeanor offense enumerated in Section 12001.6
shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than
three months, or if probation is granted or if the execution or
imposition of sentence is suspended, it shall be a condition thereof
that he or she be imprisoned in a county jail for not less than three
months.
(2) Every person convicted under this section of a felony
violation of subdivision (b) or (d) who has been convicted previously
of a misdemeanor offense enumerated in Section 12001.6, if probation
is granted or if the execution of sentence is suspended, it shall be
a condition thereof that he or she be imprisoned in a county jail
for not less than three months.
(3) Every person convicted under this section for a felony
violation of subdivision (b) or (d) who has been convicted previously
of any felony, or of any crime made punishable by Chapter 1
(commencing with Section 12000) of Title 2 of Part 4, if probation is
granted or if the execution or imposition of sentence is suspended,
it shall be a condition thereof that he or she be imprisoned in a
county jail for not less than three months.


continued...

-aK-
08-22-2007, 4:53 PM
(4) The court shall apply the three-month minimum sentence
specified in this subdivision, except in unusual cases where the
interests of justice would best be served by granting probation or
suspending the execution or imposition of sentence without the
minimum imprisonment required in this subdivision or by granting
probation or suspending the execution or imposition of sentence with
conditions other than those set forth in this subdivision, in which
case the court shall specify on the record and shall enter on the
minutes the circumstances indicating that the interests of justice
would best be served by this disposition.
(h) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or
possesses a loaded firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or
buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research,
or administration by, a public or private university or college, that
are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it
is with the written permission of the university or college
president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college
authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for
two, three, or four years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a
university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary
entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are
prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.
(i) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or
possesses a firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings
owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or
administration by, a public or private university or college, that
are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it
is with the written permission of the university or college
president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college
authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for
one, two, or three years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a
university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary
entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are
prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.
(j) For purposes of this section, a firearm shall be deemed to be
loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of
a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or
attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited
to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the
firearm. A muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when
it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in
the barrel or cylinder.
(k) This section does not require that notice be posted regarding
the proscribed conduct.
(l) This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer
as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of
Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the
federal government who is carrying out official duties while in
California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in
making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually
engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of
this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance
of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the
firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of
Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged
in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision
(e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.
(m) This section does not apply to a security guard authorized to
carry a loaded firearm pursuant to Section 12031.
(n) This section does not apply to an existing shooting range at
a public or private school or university or college campus.
(o) This section does not apply to an honorably retired peace
officer authorized to carry a concealed or loaded firearm pursuant to
subdivision (a) or (i) of Section 12027 or paragraph (1) or (8) of
subdivision (b) of Section 12031.

PC626.9

-aK-
08-22-2007, 4:56 PM
PC626.9(c)(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked
container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in
accordance with state law.

The wording is a little funny but I think it applies to pistols (or capable of being concealed) and not regular long guns.

What do you think?

metalhead357
08-22-2007, 7:22 PM
Net-speak could do a lot...BAD....for ya. I hesitate to answer; I'd await a response from thoe more knowlegable and/or seek an attorney..........:(

aplinker
08-23-2007, 2:01 AM
The wording is a little funny but I think it applies to pistols (or capable of being concealed) and not regular long guns.

What do you think?

That section is basically saying that, as long as you're transporting according to the standard laws (everything unloaded, pistols locked up), you can travel through "gun free zones."

EOD Guy
08-23-2007, 9:12 AM
That section is basically saying that, as long as you're transporting according to the standard laws (everything unloaded, pistols locked up), you can travel through "gun free zones."

That is true, but the Federal Gun Free Schools Act requires that all firearms be in a locked container. The quoted section of the Penal Code is California law only.

hoozaru
08-23-2007, 9:17 AM
your trunk = locked container, unless it's really messed up.

IIRC ammo needs to be in a seperate locked container.

-aK-
08-23-2007, 10:37 AM
That is true, but the Federal Gun Free Schools Act requires that all firearms be in a locked container. The quoted section of the Penal Code is California law only.

Do you happen to know what the code is for reference?

-aK-
08-23-2007, 10:39 AM
That section is basically saying that, as long as you're transporting according to the standard laws (everything unloaded, pistols locked up), you can travel through "gun free zones."

Would you agree that you could walk down the street with a shouldered and unloaded shotgun and pass by a school within 1000ft being legal as long as you were carrying an otherwise legal shotgun, unloaded, not a felon, not a gang member, and all that of course?

aplinker
08-23-2007, 12:06 PM
Would you agree that you could walk down the street with a shouldered and unloaded shotgun and pass by a school within 1000ft being legal as long as you were carrying an otherwise legal shotgun, unloaded, not a felon, not a gang member, and all that of course?

You're trying to push the edge...

The only two things I looked up and made certain were kosher were passing through in my car and if I had a friend with a house in a school zone, if I could bring them to their house. (Both yes)

I think carrying a shouldered, uncased firearm through any incorporated area is a poorly advised choice, but I don't know the penal code.

CSDGuy
08-23-2007, 12:44 PM
Within a school zone, there are two sets of laws that come into play. One is State, and the other is Federal. Inside a school zone, follow the more restrictive of the two. This way, you're ok with both sets of laws. If you follow the least restrictive, you could get into trouble with the other set of laws, unless the least restrictive laws preempts the other set...

DedEye
08-23-2007, 1:46 PM
What about living withint 1,000 feet of a university? What laws come into play? Can someone spell out for me what is legal as far as transportation and containers inside and outside the apartment?

-aK-
08-23-2007, 3:41 PM
You're trying to push the edge...

The only two things I looked up and made certain were kosher were passing through in my car and if I had a friend with a house in a school zone, if I could bring them to their house. (Both yes)

I think carrying a shouldered, uncased firearm through any incorporated area is a poorly advised choice, but I don't know the penal code.

I agree it would be pushing it. And I wouldn't unless I had to.

BUT, the reason I bring it up is because I'm interested in knowing exactly where the gubermint drew a line in the sand.

Anyone know the federal gun free school zone act title or code reference?

-aK-
08-23-2007, 3:44 PM
What about living withint 1,000 feet of a university? What laws come into play? Can someone spell out for me what is legal as far as transportation and containers inside and outside the apartment?

I'll check later when I have some time but off hand I believe what is considered a school is a public k-12 school and not universities or college campuses. Though they will almost for sure have no firearm on campus rules themselves.

I'll look it up later and confirm.

and to answer your question as far as the firearm is in a locked container you should but just fine.

I'm trying to determine if the school zone act also requires you to lock up a normal long gun and not just handguns (and/or assault weapons.)

-aK-
08-23-2007, 3:51 PM
How about this then.

If I was walking from my house to a gun store.

I am not a felon, gang member, or commiting a felony.

I'm carrying an unloaded shotgun over my shoulder by a sling. I have shotgun shells in my back pack.

I also have an unloaded pistol in a locked container in my back pack. and ammunition for it in my pack.

I'm walking through town which includes passing within 1000ft of a school.

Walking or driving shouldn't be any different right?

Would you arrest me?
What law would I be breaking?
Please cite the code.

thanks for participating in my learning experience.

aplinker
08-23-2007, 3:51 PM
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html
(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

It looks like unloaded and locked in a container you can carry on school property. I still wouldn't do it.

-aK-
08-23-2007, 3:54 PM
Sweet, I'll take a look at that later as I'm on my way out the door.

Thanks ucla

be back later.

-aK-
08-23-2007, 10:29 PM
WHOA... that **** is not easy to read.

I couldn't find the part where the quote came from.

Click that link and try to follow that.....

omg....

And that is supposed to make sense to the average person?

dave7739
08-24-2007, 7:36 AM
what about this scenario: a school employee is a hunter/target shooter and plans on shooting after work, places his rifles in the trunk of the car in locked cases. Can he/she park the car on school grounds? What about the cab of a truck? Please pardon my ignorance, I just gotten back into gun ownership and realize alot has changed since the early 80's.
(BTW I also realize this would not be a good idea because of the probability of someone breaking into the car or a student recognizing the gun case and reporting causing more headaches)
Thanks
Dave

-aK-
08-24-2007, 11:09 AM
Well in reading into the CA penal code more I'm starting to convince myself that it can be read both ways.

One could make the argument that all firearms need to be in a locked container.

I could also make the argument that a shotgun does not need to be in a locked container to be "otherwise lawful transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in
accordance with state law."

Once again the law is very confusing.


I've got a question for everyone. Do you lock your long guns up when you travel?

EOD Guy
08-24-2007, 2:10 PM
Well in reading into the CA penal code more I'm starting to convince myself that it can be read both ways.

One could make the argument that all firearms need to be in a locked container.

I could also make the argument that a shotgun does not need to be in a locked container to be "otherwise lawful transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in
accordance with state law."

Once again the law is very confusing.


I've got a question for everyone. Do you lock your long guns up when you travel?

The California law does not require that rifles or shotguns be in locked containers, but the Federal law does not make any distinctions and requires that all firearms be in locked containers.

RRangel
08-24-2007, 8:09 PM
Do a search on that particular law. I remember something to the effect of it not being in effect. Something about it not passing muster.

CSDGuy
08-24-2007, 8:40 PM
forumguy... what you're thinking of is the ORIGINAL Gun Free School Zone Act. That one was struck down by SCOTUS. Congress changed a couple of things and so far, the new GFSZ Act hasn't been struck down.

-aK-
08-24-2007, 11:07 PM
Eod, do you know the exact title, section, subsection, paragraph, sub paragraph, bull**** line, sub bull**** line that it is on?

I've tried to read the linked section several times and I end up getting a headache and by the time I get to the end I can't find what he had quoted.

Thanks!

Archenemy550
08-25-2007, 10:05 AM
hey I had a quick Q,
Is open Carry of a Long Gun legal? Unloaded of course...

metalhead357
08-25-2007, 12:11 PM
hey I had a quick Q,
Is open Carry of a Long Gun legal? Unloaded of course...

WHERE and When? It does make a difference.......

Archenemy550
08-28-2007, 11:31 PM
yea, during a peacefull time (No Conflict or Protest) in the middle of the day

say, walking up the street to a friends house...

tombinghamthegreat
08-29-2007, 11:21 AM
No, and that is called Open Carry. You may get away with it live out in a place where there was no one around. Even then a cop could still arrest you since CA does not believe in the right to bear arms. If i could, i would.

-aK-
08-29-2007, 11:47 AM
No, and that is called Open Carry. You may get away with it live out in a place where there was no one around. Even then a cop could still arrest you since CA does not believe in the right to bear arms. If i could, i would.

If he wasn't on or 1000ft from a school what would he arrest him for?
Please cite code.

aplinker
08-29-2007, 7:32 PM
If he wasn't on or 1000ft from a school what would he arrest him for?
Please cite code.

Most cities have ordinances against open carry. I'm tired or I'd look them up.

ldivinag
08-29-2007, 8:14 PM
What about living withint 1,000 feet of a university? What laws come into play? Can someone spell out for me what is legal as far as transportation and containers inside and outside the apartment?

that is an iffy situation.

remember, parking lots, etc, are part of the university.

what sucks is that includes dorms, if owned or part of the university. so students in dorms have no rights for self defense with a firearm.

CitaDeL
08-29-2007, 9:58 PM
Most cities have ordinances against open carry. I'm tired or I'd look them up.

I'd like you to name just one, when youre not feeling so tired to look it up.

Actually, what I have found in my limited research is that cities will regulate 'discharge' rather than send police to chase down every pickup truck with a gun displayed in a gun rack in the window, or punish for some incidental exposure by someone with a license to carry concealed.



No, and that is called Open Carry. You may get away with it live out in a place where there was no one around. Even then a cop could still arrest you since CA does not believe in the right to bear arms. If i could, i would.

A cop could arrest you for what? Even in incorporated city limits, as long as your weapon is unloaded and you're not within 1000ft of a school you can carry exposed. The can detain you, but having commited no arrestable offense, the officers would be making a false arrest, opening their department up to some serious civil issues.