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FatalKitty
01-01-2013, 8:04 PM
https://www.facebook.com/events/194177897386767/

this is a nation wide event but the CA event is just getting warmed up.
planned for Feb 8th.

if you have a voice, let it be heard.

CitaDeL
01-01-2013, 8:13 PM
https://www.facebook.com/events/194177897386767/

this is a nation wide event but the CA event is just getting warmed up.
planned for Feb 8th.

if you have a voice, let it be heard.

Wow.There's seven people already signed up. And someone is asking if it is okay to wear a Flak Jacket. Sounds like this is shaping up to have quite the media impact.

FatalKitty
01-01-2013, 9:09 PM
Wow.There's seven people already signed up. And someone is asking if it is okay to wear a Flak Jacket. Sounds like this is shaping up to have quite the media impact.

i'm pretty sure that was a joke - the main event page had some back and forth humor about wearing gas masks and such. LOL

AyatollahGondola
01-01-2013, 9:22 PM
Wow.There's seven people already signed up. And someone is asking if it is okay to wear a Flak Jacket. Sounds like this is shaping up to have quite the media impact.

Once again, I'd be checking your basement for pods if you had one.

Marxman
01-01-2013, 9:37 PM
I see tinfoil hats on that page... where do I get mine?

Scott Connors
01-02-2013, 10:03 AM
Signed up. Anybody in the Red Bluff/Corning area interested in carpooling? If so, please send PM.

akirpal78
01-02-2013, 10:05 AM
I will be there!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

CitaDeL
01-02-2013, 10:23 AM
Once again, I'd be checking your basement for pods if you had one.

I have not been replaced by a 'pod-person'. There are appropriate venues. There are appropriate methods of protest. There are appropriate times to protest.

A protest at the State Capitol, promoting the second amendment, with protesters carrying signs with bumper sticker slogans, wearing BDU's, NRA hats, flak jackets, and other stereotype affirming wardrobe does not meet any of the 'appropriate' criteria above.

None of this makes average people think that gun owners are the most reasonable people in the room.

If this was being organized to counter code pink, The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence or other radical disarmament faction who were having their own function at the Capitol, I might have a different view. I still would not subscribe to the tactics that would certainly lead to a failure to project gun owners as intelligent, responsible, and diverse.

The congregation that this group will attract will be heterosexual, white, male, 40-60 years old, middle-class, and retired or underemployed.

If the media covers anything, it will be that old white guys with outdated values are angry that a Chinese immigrant and Hispanics in our legislature want to take away automatic machine guns.

If someone really wants to make this work politically in this state, the Pink Pistols or an organization of women or minority gun owners would have to be the predominant turnout- not 200-300 old white men:oji: who happen to be available on a Friday afternoon.

CitaDeL
01-02-2013, 10:29 AM
Certainly, join up and make a difference - instead of just poking fun at people for actually doing 'something'

also - just had a thought. I can't remember who it was that showed up to a press conference in a bullet resistant vest to make a point about open carry of hand guns. if they are going to take our guns... what is left to defend us? I'd be wearing a vest too.

That was Lori Saldana (http://lapd.com/news/headlines/california_bill_would_ban_open_guns_in_public/), the author of AB1934.

AyatollahGondola
01-02-2013, 10:44 AM
I have not been replaced by a 'pod-person'. There are appropriate venues. There are appropriate methods of protest. There are appropriate times to protest.

A protest at the State Capitol, promoting the second amendment, with protesters carrying signs with bumper sticker slogans, wearing BDU's, NRA hats, flak jackets, and other stereotype affirming wardrobe does not meet any of the 'appropriate' criteria above.

None of this makes average people think that gun owners are the most reasonable people in the room.

If this was being organized to counter code pink, The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence or other radical disarmament faction who were having their own function at the Capitol, I might have a different view. I still would not subscribe to the tactics that would certainly lead to a failure to project gun owners as intelligent, responsible, and diverse.

The congregation that this group will attract will be heterosexual, white, male, 40-60 years old, middle-class, and retired or underemployed.

If the media covers anything, it will be that old white guys with outdated values are angry that a Chinese immigrant and Hispanics in our legislature want to take away automatic machine guns.

If someone really wants to make this work politically in this state, the Pink Pistols or an organization of women or minority gun owners would have to be the predominant turnout- not 200-300 old white men:oji: who happen to be available on a Friday afternoon.

Well, I cannot help but notice your immediate reluctance to help shape the event, in favor of condeming it based upon an assumption...or maybe a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Also don't know why you have a sudden disgust for old white men, and a fondness for pink-pistol packing san franciscans, but I'll let it be known that I find your stereotyping and profiling a bit unpalatable. But yes...I'm very surprised at your attempt at suppression. I hope the organizers and the attendees prove you wrong, and also that neither one of us can say I-told-you-so, if neither public pressure, or the court challenges fail to produce the results we strive for.

OneAvgWhiteGuy
01-02-2013, 11:19 AM
Well, I cannot help but notice your immediate reluctance to help shape the event, in favor of condeming it based upon an assumption...or maybe a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Also don't know why you have a sudden disgust for old white men, and a fondness for pink-pistol packing san franciscans, but I'll let it be known that I find your stereotyping and profiling a bit unpalatable. But yes...I'm very surprised at your attempt at suppression. I hope the organizers and the attendees prove you wrong, and also that neither one of us can say I-told-you-so, if neither public pressure, or the court challenges fail to produce the results we strive for.

It'd be nice if it wasn't true, but have you ever seen a pro 2A rally that wasn't as described?

Desertdog702
01-02-2013, 11:39 AM
I would drive up from Vegas to do this one. We need all the help we can get. Where else are you letting ppl know about this? We need to ge the word out.

I have posted this on some other forums so lets see what happens.

bwiese
01-02-2013, 11:44 AM
This is full of fail.

Please DON'T.

I already know (directly) what legislative aides think of this crap: "What nuts are out today?"

Protests do not tie up staff time or resources. Period.

You can bet a few goons will be the ones on the news.

taperxz
01-02-2013, 11:57 AM
Certainly, join up and make a difference - instead of just poking fun at people for actually doing 'something'



Picking scabs is also "doing something" this idea is equivelant to that.

nicki
01-02-2013, 11:58 AM
We have had these type events all across the country and few attended. That being said the trend of record gun sales and the recent increase in the size of active members on this board says that we may actually be seeing a shift.

Like many of us, my issue is work schedule.

Sadly weather will be a factor, if it rains, expect crowd to be cut in half.
There have been rallies in the past, the biggest one I think got about 2k people.

There is the view that these rallies are pointless, that little good comes out of them.
If all people do is show up and be a good little sheep and that is all they do, then yes, the rallies will be a poor use of resources.

However, there are other considerations.

People who show up at such rallies have gone from *****ing about gun rights to actually doing something, these are the people who become the future leaders.

As Gene has often said, we need an army of "Davids". These type rallies are where you may find the "Davids".

Many gun owners are frustrated, rallies like this can be something productive they can do to relieve their frustrations and when they find they have a good time, they become open to actually doing other things.

When I joined here in 2008, we had less than 10k active members, today we now have over 30k active members. A lot new members have just joined within last month.

In 4 years we have grown over 300 percent in size. I don't think the other gun organizations have grown this much in the last 4 years.

All of us we have to make choices, I am going to send the organizer a message with a few questions. If I am happy with his response, I will suck up and be there.

Nicki

NotEnufGarage
01-02-2013, 12:58 PM
Instead of taking time off work, spending money on parking and gas and giving the press an easy target to make fun of, take the money you would have spent on this dubious endeavor and donate it to the NRA and CGF.

The results will be much more powerful.

tcrpe
01-02-2013, 1:18 PM
The legislature will ignore you, as they always do, and the press will have a field day with you.

I'll stay 300 miles away.


This is how you will be portrayed:

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo360/banks272/Guns_cartoons/NRA148.jpg

CitaDeL
01-02-2013, 1:31 PM
Well, I cannot help but notice your immediate reluctance to help shape the event, in favor of condeming it based upon an assumption...or maybe a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Also don't know why you have a sudden disgust for old white men, and a fondness for pink-pistol packing san franciscans, but I'll let it be known that I find your stereotyping and profiling a bit unpalatable. But yes...I'm very surprised at your attempt at suppression. I hope the organizers and the attendees prove you wrong, and also that neither one of us can say I-told-you-so, if neither public pressure, or the court challenges fail to produce the results we strive for.

I dont have any particular like or dislike of any of the mentioned parties. And I think you are confusing this erroneous perception for the reality that I was attempting to outline.

The intent of protesting is to reach an audience with a message. I can tell that the people that are promoting this havent answered the question of who they want to reach and the message they intend to convey, because they are simply asking people to 'show up'.


There is no thought about organization.
No particular objective stated.
No indicator of who is in charge of public relations.
No definate message articulated.
No audience defined to whom this message is to be addressed.


With this strategy of 'just show up', organizers are allowing the media and the anti-gunners to set the dialogue, exploit poor examples of our constituency, and deliver it to the audience of their chosing. (It would be far less damaging for them to invite the media to a shoot and 'Que or an Appleseed where new people are being invited to learn about gun safety and the history of the second amendment.)

Time and again, advocates trap themselves into being a media pawn to argue that gunowners are nutty, unintelligent, tubby rednecks. I simply do not see how this advances our political desires in Sacramento.

AyatollahGondola
01-02-2013, 1:57 PM
I dont have any particular like or dislike of any of the mentioned parties. And I think you are confusing this erroneous perception for the reality that I was attempting to outline.

The intent of protesting is to reach an audience with a message. I can tell that the people that are promoting this havent answered the question of who they want to reach and the message they intend to convey, because they are simply asking people to 'show up'.


There is no thought about organization.
No particular objective stated.
No indicator of who is in charge of public relations.
No definate message articulated.
No audience defined to whom this message is to be addressed.


With this strategy of 'just show up', organizers are allowing the media and the anti-gunners to set the dialogue, exploit poor examples of our constituency, and deliver it to the audience of their chosing. (It would be far less damaging for them to invite the media to a shoot and 'Que or an Appleseed where new people are being invited to learn about gun safety and the history of the second amendment.)

Time and again, advocates trap themselves into being a media pawn to argue that gunowners are nutty, unintelligent, tubby rednecks. I simply do not see how this advances our political desires in Sacramento.

It's early in its' stages, and you're critique might have been better recieved had it not been intended as an effort to derail someone else's good intentions. Why not let them go forth for a bit and see if it gets clarified to your liking. So much nay-saying here. Not much effort in trying to make it good, or even acceptable. It's all aimed at torpedoing any effort to assemble

AyatollahGondola
01-02-2013, 1:59 PM
Instead of taking time off work, spending money on parking and gas and giving the press an easy target to make fun of, take the money you would have spent on this dubious endeavor and donate it to the NRA and CGF.

The results will be much more powerful.

Do you really think you can buy 2nd amendment rights in the legislature, or the courts? Or are you trying to convince me that they can be bought at Calguns foundation and the NRA

emcon5
01-02-2013, 2:07 PM
Well, I would say if you're a militia member, and you and your militia are coming together, uniforms are ok, as long as they look decent.


http://digboston.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/facepalm.jpg

tcrpe
01-02-2013, 2:10 PM
http://digboston.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/facepalm.jpg

Oh, yea, this is shaping up well . . . . .

donny douchebag
01-02-2013, 2:13 PM
"If the media covers anything, it will be that old white guys with outdated values are angry that a Chinese immigrant and Hispanics in our legislature want to take away automatic machine guns."

Lmao. The sad part is those are pretty much the facts.

bwiese
01-02-2013, 2:29 PM
Citadel has put it very well.

Derailing 'good intentions' is in fact great, because good intentions pave the road to hell.

This crap usually comes up every year or two or so. Someone gets a wild hair up his rear that a "show of force" is necessary and then sets up something lame...

The problem is, it's not a 'show of force' to the rational:


weekdays are when functional folk (gunnies, vs. OWSers) work. And weekend protests
are even less relevant: gov types really don't do structured weekend office work; they're
not Silicon Valley achievers.

Given this, you'll have *small* attendance by the unemployed and, yes, a bulk of 'old white
males' who are politically irrelevant in CA.
.
legislators + aides from both sides look outside their windows and joke, "Who's protesting today?"
They laugh because they know it's inefficient and doesn't change anything. They also know that
in many cases the leaders of such protests are running such drama to gain membership, show
'relevance', etc.

[This is straight from an expoerienced leg aide I trust.]

They also know that protesting means time wasted *not* raising money to oppose them.
.
For certain, infiltration and/or negative stereotyping of our own by the antis will happen.

We'd end up with two types: the "kill 'em all/let gawd sort'em out" types, in camo (either infiltrators,
or highlighted folk from our side) and then the "I have a shotgun but don't need an [EBR|handgun...]"
types. These latter folks will get all the press time.

Please remember the Thirty Caliber Idiots in 1989 who sold us out to protect their wooden guns. They
got lots of air time.
.
A good trusted friend on the CA NRA team was called by the press the day a key decision was handed
down several years ago. The reporter actually asked him for "an NRA dissenter who was wearing camoflauge".
I believe the reporter only heard a "click".

That should tell you everything you need to know about such "PR."

Moonshine
01-02-2013, 3:13 PM
Phone calls and letters to your representative have FAR more impact than protesting. Last time we beat Yee at the mailbox and phone lines not with picket signs.

bwiese
01-02-2013, 3:16 PM
Phone calls and letters to your representative have FAR more impact than protesting. Last time we beat Yee at the mailbox and phone lines not with picket signs.

BINGO!

If you're on the Capital Mall, you're not a pain to anyone except perchance security guards.

If you're calling and faxing you're burning up staff time AND depriving staff + resources from being used for fundraising.

AyatollahGondola
01-02-2013, 3:24 PM
I'm sorry to hear that you all feel that way. But not everyone has as much faith in you, as you believe we should.
I guess we'll just have to disagree

Coded-Dude
01-02-2013, 3:32 PM
Sadly, Civil Protest & Civil Disobedience have lost their allure.

tcrpe
01-02-2013, 3:38 PM
I'm still watching the fruits of the OC pistol and long gun "movement" unfold. :shrug:

OK, I know they got both banned for their efforts. So, now the "movement" is suing to overturn those laws?

They're not?

RGERBER
01-02-2013, 3:55 PM
is there someone in charge of Fresno Area, I would like to see about getting a bus to go up there?

omgwtfbbq
01-02-2013, 4:09 PM
In theory, this would be a great idea. However, if the goal is to gain media attention, this is folly. As it's been said, the media will not air footage of reasonable individuals speaking their minds about their rights and how to defend them in articulate, level-headed ways. They will choose to air the people who have the most inflamitory things to say to protect their ratings.

I've seen CA Gun Owners Association protests at the Capitol Mall before and they were pretty much the stereotype. This doesn't do anything to help our cause. I wish terribly that it did, but unlike our opposition we can't count on our message being heard with it's intended voice.

berto
01-02-2013, 4:14 PM
http://www.iveknownrivers.org/stories/vol_002/panthermania-2006-04-13/beeheadline.jpg

therealnickb
01-02-2013, 4:16 PM
What if every time a lame piece of new gun legislation was introduced, the author received a million (literally) red roses? All with notes from 2A supporters asking for the propose bill to be withdrawn.

What would a million flowers look like?

It would certainly be cheaper than flying to DC. Just thinking out loud.....

emcon5
01-02-2013, 4:23 PM
There is no possible way this will end any way but poorly.

Even if 10,000 people show up, 99.99% in suits, the one guy who makes the news will be a brown-toothed-slack-jawed yokel screaming about "mah col-ded-hans"

This is deep fried stupid slathered with moron sauce.

CitaDeL
01-02-2013, 5:15 PM
It's early in its' stages, and you're critique might have been better recieved had it not been intended as an effort to derail someone else's good intentions. Why not let them go forth for a bit and see if it gets clarified to your liking. So much nay-saying here. Not much effort in trying to make it good, or even acceptable. It's all aimed at torpedoing any effort to assemble

I am not in a position to derail anyone's efforts, only to warn of the probable outcome. I do not extend my critique of this lightly and think it might be valuable in the context that I am still an unrepentant advocate of individual open carry. There wasnt any way for me to guide that movement let alone put a stop to it, once it was begun.

Were I so domineering as to torpedo the idea, I surely wouldnt have offered suggestions of what might be wrong with this approach...

Trenchfoot
01-02-2013, 5:36 PM
I'm sorry to hear that you all feel that way. But not everyone has as much faith in you, as you believe we should.
I guess we'll just have to disagree

How you see yourselves...
http://actnowus.org/american%20patriots.jpg




How you will be portrayed...
http://gonzogeek.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/redneck_special_forces.jpg?w=468

Scott Connors
01-02-2013, 6:09 PM
This runs contrary to my experience. I helped organize the biggest demontration ever held in Harrisburg, at the Pennsylvania State Capitol, back in 1992 when there was an AW ban under discussion. We got well over 5000 participants. There were some guys in hunter camo, but I wore a suit and lobbied my rep, the majority and minority leaders, and the head of the judiciary committee. There were several of us in the Brooks Brother Brigade. I am aware of the media's propensity for stereotyping: at hearings before the Pittsburgh City Council on an AW ban, there were over 100 opposing the ban in attendance, and maybe 30 in support, including one stereotypical old hippie who quoted YEats' poem "The Second Coming" at excruxiating length (I used to like that poem too :mad: ). There was one poster child for the detrimental effects of intermarriage between first cousins, so guess who the Post Gazette put on page 1? If a demonstration is followed up with polite calls on our reps' offices, it can be very effective.

Rackatak
01-02-2013, 6:21 PM
How did the protests, marches and public space takeovers work out for the Occupy Movement?

Occupy who? :rolleyes:

bwiese
01-02-2013, 6:25 PM
Scott Connors...

In no way the politiy or balance of Pennsylvania is remotely related to what's here in California, and usefl parallels cannot be drawn.

Fjold
01-02-2013, 6:41 PM
The legislature will ignore you, as they always do, and the press will have a field day with you.

I'll stay 300 miles away.


This is how you will be portrayed:

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo360/banks272/Guns_cartoons/NRA148.jpg

Agreed, what will make the news is some camo wearing rube talking about dying with his guns in his hands.

tcrpe
01-02-2013, 8:06 PM
Patriot is not a label one applies to oneself. That is the exclusive province of others.

Scott Connors
01-02-2013, 8:10 PM
Scott Connors...

In no way the politiy or balance of Pennsylvania is remotely related to what's here in California, and usefl parallels cannot be drawn.

I'll defer to your experience, Bill, since you and Gene and Brandon et al have gotten us as far as we are now, but I'm becoming more pissed off than I was in '94. I was very active in RKBA politics at that time, and would like to do something constructive to thwart the Brady Bunch's nefarious plans. (Yes, I said nefarious. It's the best word, even if it's something Dudley Dooright would use.) I'm a published writer and a psych nurse, so I excel at critical thinking...oh yeah, something else that isn't remotely related to California politics.

Jeez...never thought I'd miss dealing with Philadelphia and PA CEASEFIRE. :rolleyes:

FatalKitty
01-02-2013, 8:15 PM
well now I regret starting this thread - I want to do something because I really am getting fed up but at the same time... what is there to do?
I may or may not attend this. I am not promoting it, I am not the organizer just someone that wanted to see more smart people on board but it looks like all the "smart ones" want to stay as far away as possible so as not to appear like crazies when the media reports on it.

CapS
01-02-2013, 8:47 PM
Times have changed, and so must our strategy. The last time I went to
the Capitol was the year Pete Kasler passed. We had a very large
presence, speakers, press, etc. IIRC, everyone was respectful and there
were lots of families with lunches.

Since then we have become more sophisticated, better organized,
better represented, better financed. We are progressing, not picnicking.

Oh, yeah. And that Supreme Court stuff, too.

:oji:

Cap

AyatollahGondola
01-02-2013, 9:50 PM
Amazing!
The nay-sayers here have villainized the first amendment believers the same way the anti gunners have villainized the second amendment believers. Lowly, simple-minded citizens cannot be trusted with the right or exercise of the first amendment. That is precisely the mindset of the anti-gun crowd; Guns should be left to the professionals. those who are trained and paid to protect us.
Good gawd.

david619
01-02-2013, 10:14 PM
Instead of taking time off work, spending money on parking and gas and giving the press an easy target to make fun of, take the money you would have spent on this dubious endeavor and donate it to the NRA and CGF.

The results will be much more powerful.

Good Idea, +1.

emcon5
01-03-2013, 8:16 AM
Amazing!
The nay-sayers here have villainized the first amendment believers the same way the anti gunners have villainized the second amendment believers. Lowly, simple-minded citizens cannot be trusted with the right or exercise of the first amendment. That is precisely the mindset of the anti-gun crowd; Guns should be left to the professionals. those who are trained and paid to protect us.
Good gawd.

That WHOOSH you keep hearing is the point going over your head.

Nobody is saying you don't have the right to protest. You absolutely do. You absolutely have the right to gather as many people as you can to go hang out at the capital, wave signs, quote the founding fathers and the Heller Decision and sing the Battle Hymn of the Republic.

The result will be the exact opposite of your intent. The media will portray you a a bunch of camo-wearing militia-wannabees and old racist white guys, and it has the potential to push the general public opinion farther in the "These nitwits shouldn't have guns" direction.

Just because you have the right to do something, doesn't mean it isn't a dumb thing to do.

AyatollahGondola
01-03-2013, 8:51 AM
con·de·scend·ing

/ˌkändəˈsendiNG/

Adjective

1.Acting in a way that betrays a feeling of patronizing superiority.
2.(of an action) Demonstrating such an attitude.

otteray
01-03-2013, 9:05 AM
Uh-oh. If you look at the organizer's "Favorites" on his facebook page, he is a follower of the Occupiers (https://www.facebook.com/Anonymous.Legion.World) and one of his "Likes" is our pal Diane Feinstein!
I'll be staying far away.

tcrpe
01-03-2013, 9:10 AM
Uh-oh. If you look at the organizer's "Favorites" on his facebook page, he is a follower of the Occupiers (https://www.facebook.com/Anonymous.Legion.World) and one of his "Likes" is our pal Diane Feinstein!
I'll be staying far away.

Not surprised in the least.

AyatollahGondola
01-03-2013, 9:14 AM
Uh-oh. If you look at the organizer's "Favorites" on his facebook page, he is a follower of the Occupiers (https://www.facebook.com/Anonymous.Legion.World) and one of his "Likes" is our pal Diane Feinstein!
I'll be staying far away.

I think you might be reading more into that facebook page than the owner means

otteray
01-03-2013, 9:17 AM
That and the fact that he can't spell California correctly is enough for me

emcon5
01-03-2013, 9:28 AM
con·de·scend·ing

/ˌkändəˈsendiNG/

Adjective

1.Acting in a way that betrays a feeling of patronizing superiority.
2.(of an action) Demonstrating such an attitude.

So you are aware it will be the equivalent of urinating into a fan, but still think it is a good idea?

berto
01-03-2013, 9:33 AM
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Let's be serious - the legislature doesn't care. None of them are fence sitters and nobody is going to change their mind. That leaves us flexing for a hostile fourth estate. The media isn't on our side. They have their own narrative and will find the interviews they need to tell the media's preferred story. That's right, Mr. NRA member who thinks assault weapons and 30 rd mags don't belong in private hands or the tin foil hatted three toothed Joe Camo ranting about gay illegal immigrants that drive Priuses, belong to unions, and throw bibles out their windows will be front and center as the gun culture. We have nothing to gain from protesting at the Capitol.

Voice your displeasure with phone calls, emails, and letters to your representatives. Donate time and/or money to the groups fighting for our rights. Vote. Take newbs shooting. Vote.

AyatollahGondola
01-03-2013, 9:38 AM
So you are aware it will be the equivalent of urinating into a fan, but still think it is a good idea?

I think many here are refusing to make it a good event. You (collective) are willing to charge in and counter the propaganda that resulted from several of the worst gun abuses in this country's recent history...something completely out of everyone's control, but refuse to participate or even organize an event that you can control the presentatation of. And everyone wonders why we are losing the public relations war. We are the empty chair in every community now.

AyatollahGondola
01-03-2013, 9:41 AM
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Let's be serious - the legislature doesn't care. None of them are fence sitters and nobody is going to change their mind. .

First amendment activities are not solely intended for the consumption of the legislative branch. It's also a form of freedom of the press

trouble
01-03-2013, 9:43 AM
I'm not planning on going, especially if Bill says not to, but could somebody who does want to get involved remind people who think they have the right to concealed carry to check out their permit restrictions especially 171c. (a) (1)

berto
01-03-2013, 9:47 AM
First amendment activities are not solely intended for the consumption of the legislative branch. It's also a form of freedom of the press

The press that's largely against 2A and is itching to marginalize us as the other in order to make further 2A restrictions seem warranted and even necessary?

Or do you have a legit media group lined up to help in the 2A fight? One that can move minds and reach the audience we need to reach?

This is about winning, not throwing temper tantrums and doing something, regardless of how stupid it is, just to do something.

emcon5
01-03-2013, 9:51 AM
but refuse to participate or even organize an event that you can control the presentatation of.

http://www.lab1663.net/images/yoda_why_you_fail.jpg

You have absolutely no control of the presentation. The media will have the control of the presentation, and this is what that portrayal will be:

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo360/banks272/Guns_cartoons/NRA148.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c370/bhw1574/artmilitiasignscnn.jpg

First amendment activities are not solely intended for the consumption of the legislative branch. It's also a form of freedom of the press

And the press will treat you like Ned Beatty in Deliverance.

savannah
01-03-2013, 9:54 AM
You know, at least the OP is doing something besides sitting behind a desk whining on a forum. I say cut these people some slack. They are doing something, even if YOU think it won't be effective. Why all this smack talking to a guy who wants the same thing you want?

Cal Guns lately seems like a bunch of snarky people who just want to complain.

AyatollahGondola
01-03-2013, 9:58 AM
Or do you have a legit media group lined up to help in the 2A fight? One that can move minds and reach the audience we need to reach?.

No. And none of us are allowed to try and create one apparently

fast5.0
01-03-2013, 9:58 AM
Why dont we just start by removing the lawmakers from office.... How do you start a movement to get people like yee out of office and other like him,just like when davis was removed...
Its just a thought but maybe if we get a couple of those wackos out of office the others will have an awakening and realize california gun owners are serious and we have had enough...

AyatollahGondola
01-03-2013, 10:00 AM
The press that's largely against 2A and is itching to marginalize us as the other in order to make further 2A restrictions seem warranted and even necessary?

Or do you have a legit media group lined up to help in the 2A fight? One that can move minds and reach the audience we need to reach?

This is about winning, not throwing temper tantrums and doing something, regardless of how stupid it is, just to do something.

And what's the deal with that avatar, by the way?

emcon5
01-03-2013, 10:08 AM
Reworded this slightly:

You know, at least the Senator Fienstein is doing something to stop gun violence besides sitting behind a desk whining on a forum. I say cut these people some slack. They are doing something, even if YOU think it won't be effective.

Doing something is not always a good thing.

Why all this smack talking to a guy who wants the same thing you want?

Because he clearly doesn't get that it no only will not work, but most likely do the exact opposite of what he (and the rest of us) want.

No. And none of us are allowed to try and create one apparently

That is not what this is. A "media group" is a newspaper or TV station.

Oh, and I wouldn't read anything at all into someone following Diane Feinstein or even the Brady bunch on Facebook. It is not a bad way to keep an eye on what they are up to.

rgraham
01-03-2013, 10:18 AM
This reminds me of those that were going around doing open carry in malls.
That was a good idea (not), and look at the results.

1859sharps
01-03-2013, 10:19 AM
It's early in its' stages, and you're critique might have been better recieved had it not been intended as an effort to derail someone else's good intentions. Why not let them go forth for a bit and see if it gets clarified to your liking. So much nay-saying here. Not much effort in trying to make it good, or even acceptable. It's all aimed at torpedoing any effort to assemble

a wise person would listen to those who are offering wise advise.

this is a bad idea. If you can't see even a half a dozen ways this can go wrong for changing people's impression of the 2nd amendment and gun control, you are unqualified to be organizing or participating in such an event.

EVEN IF, this was the best course of action to take, you HAVE TO be able anticipate the negatives, if you can't see any negatives, develop ways to counter them, marginalize them, manage them, turn them into positives etc, you have NO business promoting, organizing or participating in an event like this.

unless the media is 100% on board with your cause, they will at the VERY LEAST make you look the fool for ratings. never mind if they disagree with you. that would be even worse for you particularly if you haven't prepared for all the ways they can twist your words, and through editing and voice overs give a negative image of your cause to their viewers.

a much more effective idea...everyone cut a $25 check to their preferred 2nd amendment group.

tcrpe
01-03-2013, 10:25 AM
This reminds me of those that were going around doing open carry in malls.
That was a good idea (not), and look at the results.

First, they paraded around with handguns, and got that banned.

Then they switched to long guns, and got that banned as well.

So, their plan was :shrug:

berto
01-03-2013, 10:30 AM
No. And none of us are allowed to try and create one apparently

How is a protest a media group? It's not print media. It's not TV. It's not new media on the web. A vanity youtube feed seen by tens of people doesn't count.

If we're going to reach the mass of non gun owning people, people who don't really care about 2A but get upset when fed casualty count news stories, we need something better than protest at the Capitol that, best case, will be spoon fed to the masses as an angry event populated by loons. Do you have any ideas that make sense given our actual situation?

The Brady bunch had a die in of sorts in SF the weekend before Xmas. Did you see it on the news? Did you read about it in the paper?


And what's the deal with that avatar, by the way?

You don't like Burt?

FatCity67
01-03-2013, 10:30 AM
This isn't going to be good.

:facepalm:

Only way I can see it making a positive effect on the narrative in the media is if the Pink Pistols were involved and the Calguns officers were organizing the event. Even then you'd probably get someone showing up spouting off about the soveriegn movement or something and that is what would make the national news.


For better or worse the poltical and social landscape has changed in this state.

Yeah yeah yeah I know 1st ammendment and all that.

AyatollahGondola
01-03-2013, 11:16 AM
How is a protest a media group? It's not print media. It's not TV. It's not new media on the web. A vanity youtube feed seen by tens of people doesn't count

. Do you have any ideas that make sense given our actual situation?

the first amendment was drafted with public gatherings that included distributed media. We can't afford broadcast equipment, and the accompanying FCC fees and such. So reverting to our roots is at least something we can do.

You don't like Burt?

It's not something I care to see accompanying a discussion on guns or gun rights.,,,actually I don't need to see that anywhere. what was that thing you mentioned about vanity?


It seems apparent that we have a large section of users here that are comfortable with what methods are being undertaken in their gun rights. I haven't been very dismissive or critical of that effort, but I'm not entirely as consigned to it as the general population is.
I'm not the organizer behind this. Our part would be to provide whatever aid we can to help the effort succeed, and that's what we'll do. If something overtly or even covertly surfaces that portends disaster, we'll review and make decisions. But for now, I think it's probably been hashed to it's impasse.
the initial post was to inform people, and rather than let other arguments detract from that, or cause it to be censored, I'll just keep most of my commentary to a minimum

berto
01-03-2013, 11:30 AM
the first amendment was drafted with public gatherings that included distributed media. We can't afford broadcast equipment, and the accompanying FCC fees and such. So reverting to our roots is at least something we can do.

Can vs. should. Everything we do has an impact. That impact isn't always positive. Let's leverage the time and effort of those willing to go to Sac. towards something more productive.

It's not something I care to see accompanying a discussion on guns or gun rights.,,,actually I don't need to see that anywhere. what was that thing you mentioned about vanity?

I was going to use Burt from Smoky and the Bandit but centerfold Burt is funnier. And I need humor in times like these.

It seems apparent that we have a large section of users here that are comfortable with what methods are being undertaken in their gun rights. I haven't been very dismissive or critical of that effort, but I'm not entirely as consigned to it as the general population is.
I'm not the organizer behind this. Our part would be to provide whatever aid we can to help the effort succeed, and that's what we'll do. If something overtly or even covertly surfaces that portends disaster, we'll review and make decisions. But for now, I think it's probably been hashed to it's impasse.
the initial post was to inform people, and rather than let other arguments detract from that, or cause it to be censored, I'll just keep most of my commentary to a minimum

I wish things were moving faster but we have to pick and choose our field. We're on the same side and I'd stand next to you at a different kind of event. Keep fighting.

FatalKitty
01-03-2013, 1:58 PM
ALL these suggestions here and I haven't seen a single one pop on the facebook page - maybe you guys need to join up and set this thing in the right direction? I dunno but I really feel like with some calguns organization and direction this could be a positive thing for those involved.

someone suggested having a single media rep - instructing others to direct all comments and questions to that rep would be a grand idea.
I for one know that a few of the people planning to attend are female and not your typical 50yo male white guy.

10mmOutdoors
01-04-2013, 12:10 AM
I have not been replaced by a 'pod-person'. There are appropriate venues. There are appropriate methods of protest. There are appropriate times to protest.

A protest at the State Capitol, promoting the second amendment, with protesters carrying signs with bumper sticker slogans, wearing BDU's, NRA hats, flak jackets, and other stereotype affirming wardrobe does not meet any of the 'appropriate' criteria above.

None of this makes average people think that gun owners are the most reasonable people in the room.

If this was being organized to counter code pink, The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence or other radical disarmament faction who were having their own function at the Capitol, I might have a different view. I still would not subscribe to the tactics that would certainly lead to a failure to project gun owners as intelligent, responsible, and diverse.

The congregation that this group will attract will be heterosexual, white, male, 40-60 years old, middle-class, and retired or underemployed.

If the media covers anything, it will be that old white guys with outdated values are angry that a Chinese immigrant and Hispanics in our legislature want to take away automatic machine guns.

If someone really wants to make this work politically in this state, the Pink Pistols or an organization of women or minority gun owners would have to be the predominant turnout- not 200-300 old white men:oji: who happen to be available on a Friday afternoon.

You remind me of sour milk. Have you always been a quitter?

10mmOutdoors
01-04-2013, 12:28 AM
Cal Guns lately seems like a bunch of snarky people who just want to complain.[/QUOTE]

I haven't been here long but I sense the same.

SwissFluCase
01-04-2013, 12:34 AM
Demonstrations only work when the media is on your side.

Why don't people understand that fact? I've dealt with the press for other political issues where we had their support, and even then you can't trust them.

I was at the SF gun show one year when a Mother Jones reporter was there. He basically ignored all of the articulate and knowledgeable people, and zeroed right in on the racist hillbilly militia wacko's (who numbered about five at the whole show) and took their stories with a zeal that was shocking. He literally couldn't care less about what I and other Calguns types had to say, but boy did he take copious notes regarding why we need the 2nd Amendment to protect us against the Jewish UN conspiracy, and how the next civil war couldn't come soon enough.

Get it?

Regards,


SwissFluCase

SwissFluCase
01-04-2013, 12:54 AM
The best thing that anyone in this thread can do RIGHT NOW is to read this book:

http://www.literatureproject.com/art-of-war/index.htm

Pick your battles, and fight EFFECTIVELY. Here is a hint: In the above book our forces in California would be considered weak, even with the overwhelming advantage of being in a post Heller world.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

HKC
01-04-2013, 1:28 AM
Amazing!
The nay-sayers here have villainized the first amendment believers the same way the anti gunners have villainized the second amendment believers. Lowly, simple-minded citizens cannot be trusted with the right or exercise of the first amendment. That is precisely the mindset of the anti-gun crowd; Guns should be left to the professionals. those who are trained and paid to protect us.
Good gawd.

You're right, what can possibly go wrong with this guy being the organizer of a protest over such a critical issue?

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/c178.48.604.604/s160x160/557245_4156554429431_958400581_n.jpg

I'm sure the liberal media here in CA will paint this guy and his friends in the most positive of light.

AyatollahGondola
01-04-2013, 6:02 AM
You're right, what can possibly go wrong with this guy being the organizer of a protest over such a critical issue?

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/c178.48.604.604/s160x160/557245_4156554429431_958400581_n.jpg

I'm sure the liberal media here in CA will paint this guy and his friends in the most positive of light.

Kids these days.....
The younger generation may not present themselves as those before it, but we have to keep in mind that our generation was looser than that of our fathers and grandfathers. But at least there is a spark of interest in preserving the 2nd amendment. What if there were none. We'd have a bigger problem then, wouldn't we?

tcrpe
01-04-2013, 6:56 AM
Anyway, how did those OC demonstrations turn out for you guys?

Get what you wanted?

sandman21
01-04-2013, 7:21 AM
Not sure tcrpe, when did the first UOC ban get proposed? And when was the first UOC demonstration? Bonus points if you inform us all who proposed the legislation and who asked the person and why? Since you are so knowledgeable on the subject.


PS. Demonstration are not neededyet, if they occur it nneeds to be a vast majority

AyatollahGondola
01-04-2013, 7:30 AM
Anyway, how did those OC demonstrations turn out for you guys?

Get what you wanted?

Totally irrelevant, and an attempt to derail the thread

tcrpe
01-04-2013, 7:57 AM
Pretty sensitive about those "results", huh?

AyatollahGondola
01-04-2013, 8:01 AM
Pretty sensitive about those "results", huh?

Keep fannin' those flames if you like, but I still maintain this isn't the proper thread for that subject.

Foulball
01-04-2013, 8:08 AM
It would be much more effective if all those who wish to protest would instead schedule an appointment to see their representative, dress in their Sunday best and attempt to hold a rational conversation with their elected official. It's harder to just ignore and wave off a constituent.

AyatollahGondola
01-04-2013, 8:19 AM
It would be much more effective if all those who wish to protest would instead schedule an appointment to see their representative, dress in their Sunday best and attempt to hold a rational conversation with their elected official. It's harder to just ignore and wave off a constituent.

Scheduling appointments with your respective reps is not always accomodated by those reps. They usually delegate someone. The one thing that inspires them to meet with you is when they see numbers of possible votes or contributions in the wings. One person scheduling an appointment doesn't represent that to them...unfortunately. I'd like to say that was an effective strategy, but they don't seem to respect it...anymore

scrubb
01-04-2013, 8:32 AM
http://www.lab1663.net/images/yoda_why_you_fail.jpg

You have absolutely no control of the presentation. The media will have the control of the presentation, and this is what that portrayal will be:

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo360/banks272/Guns_cartoons/NRA148.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c370/bhw1574/artmilitiasignscnn.jpg



And the press will treat you like Ned Beatty in Deliverance.

As much as I like the idea of what that the OP's intent is, the above poster put it perfectly. The media will portray you as "NRA backed crazied KKK militia gun nuts (who all own so- called "assault weapons)". You good intention will not get a fair spin by the media. The media's objective to sensationlize people with attention grabbing headlines for ratings.
They want us all to drink the koolaid and eat their fodder so they can get their ratings and $$$.....heaven forbid one day we have an (as much as it can be) unbiased media. Lord help us as well as the NRA, SAF, CRPA, CALGUNS Foundation, CAL-FFL, GOA, etc...

AyatollahGondola
01-04-2013, 8:37 AM
heaven forbid one day we have an (as much as it can be) unbiased media. ...

Why would you expect one, when you accept their dominion of it now?

TeddyBallgame
01-04-2013, 8:52 AM
How you see yourselves...
http://actnowus.org/american%20patriots.jpg




How you will be portrayed...
http://gonzogeek.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/redneck_special_forces.jpg?w=468LOL'd good on this one...I had the same thoughts in my mind, you just brought it out brilliantly

scrubb
01-04-2013, 9:06 AM
Why would you expect one, when you accept their dominion of it now?

They are a beast brotha, and especially in light of recent events they are going to give you/us a bad spin. People are hyper-sensitive to guns, gun violence, and anything of the sort right now. Perhaps a gun rights blood drive and/or food/clothes drive for families in need?

For now, I am an NRA Lifetime, CRPA, SAF, and calguns (donor) member and I have already changed several people's outlook about guns, the 2A, and the government taking our rights. I also got multiple people to sign up for the NRA, SAF, and CRPA. Educating people close to you(spreading the word that way) and donating to gun rights org is the most viable way in this point in time.

Foulball
01-04-2013, 9:19 AM
Scheduling appointments with your respective reps is not always accomodated by those reps. They usually delegate someone. The one thing that inspires them to meet with you is when they see numbers of possible votes or contributions in the wings. One person scheduling an appointment doesn't represent that to them...unfortunately. I'd like to say that was an effective strategy, but they don't seem to respect it...anymore

RE: the bolded part

So you say you represent xx # of people from xx group and you'd like to talk to them. If the staffer doesn't pass it along, go to their local office and see them when they are back in town. I have yet to see a rep not have a local or home office and not meet with constituents. Might be different in rural areas, but in Orange County you can meet with any of our reps (state or fed) anytime they are in town. Or, if your rep still ignores you, move on to another rep. Lou Correa is pretty easy to talk to (especially if you're a small business owner) as was Curt Hagman before he lost last year. There are many, many ways to get your voice heard that are better than protesting on a lawn.

Whatever, just my .02c worth.

I'll bow out now.

AyatollahGondola
01-04-2013, 9:25 AM
I'll bow out now.

No need for that.

HKC
01-04-2013, 9:42 AM
Kids these days.....
The younger generation may not present themselves as those before it, but we have to keep in mind that our generation was looser than that of our fathers and grandfathers. But at least there is a spark of interest in preserving the 2nd amendment. What if there were none. We'd have a bigger problem then, wouldn't we?

We sure would have a bigger problem, but that doesn't mean this still isn't a big problem as well.

Unfortunately, we do not control the message. The media does and it's a lose/lose situation with them here (see the OC movements as a perfect example). If you got a couple thousand to show, with 1,999 of them dressed in suits and ties, being educated, well spoken, with excellent rationale for their protest and only one person carrying himself like a psycho racist nutjob, guess why KPIX is going to show on Eyewitness News? Guess who the San Francisco Chronicle or LA Times are going to showcase for their stories?

Even if you pull off the miracle of miracles and have a large showing and 100% of them being nutjob free, the media can and will simply choose not to cover it, or bury on page 20 of their paper.

You can't win with them. Period. You may think that sounds defeatist, but it's not. It's reality. We can still win, but we need to do it "under the radar" as Obama infamously stated. Concede the battle of California mass media coverage to them, it's a lost cause at this point. Focus your time, energy, and money on something that actually has a chance and proven track record of success, like supporting CGF and beating these bastards in court.

AyatollahGondola
01-04-2013, 10:04 AM
Unfortunately, we do not control the message. The media does and it's a lose/lose situation with them here (see the OC movements as a perfect example). If you got a couple thousand to show, with 1,999 of them dressed in suits and ties, being educated, well spoken, with excellent rationale for their protest and only one person carrying himself like a psycho racist nutjob, guess why KPIX is going to show on Eyewitness News? Guess who the San Francisco Chronicle or LA Times are going to showcase for their stories?

Even if you pull off the miracle of miracles and have a large showing and 100% of them being nutjob free, the media can and will simply choose not to cover it, or bury on page 20 of their paper.

You can't win with them. Period. You may think that sounds defeatist, but it's not. It's reality. We can still win, but we need to do it "under the radar" as Obama infamously stated. Concede the battle of California mass media coverage to them, it's a lost cause at this point. Focus your time, energy, and money on something that actually has a chance and proven track record of success, like supporting CGF and beating these bastards in court.

I know that happens. It happened to us in the immigration debate too. we had rallies and protests and the media picked the drunken, PTSD big mouthed guy with his army uniform on. But guess what? We persisted. Over and over again. the press changed a little because of the sheer numbers, and eventually started having to publish more of our side of the issue. Before, it was just plain their side and censorship of anything else. The outcome was that congress has not granted immigration reform, and instead we have a president who is assuming the role in an unlawful manner. The point being, we did not give in to the evil media's dominion. A personal opinion is that had we given in, there'd be 15 to 20 million more liberal voters out there by now. Maybe that happens, maybe not. But we have staved it off, and I think we weakened the media a tiny bit, because a whole lot more people started questioning their motives more often.

HKC
01-04-2013, 10:19 AM
I know that happens. It happened to us in the immigration debate too. we had rallies and protests and the media picked the drunken, PTSD big mouthed guy with his army uniform on. But guess what? We persisted. Over and over again. the press changed a little because of the sheer numbers, and eventually started having to publish more of our side of the issue. Before, it was just plain their side and censorship of anything else. The outcome was that congress has not granted immigration reform, and instead we have a president who is assuming the role in an unlawful manner. The point being, we did not give in to the evil media's dominion. A personal opinion is that had we given in, there'd be 15 to 20 million more liberal voters out there by now. Maybe that happens, maybe not. But we have staved it off, and I think we weakened the media a tiny bit, because a whole lot more people started questioning their motives more often.

I hear what you're saying, but this is not the same issue as immigration reform. In this particular issue, laws are constantly trying to be passed to further weaken our position. It would be like every time you protested about illegal immigration, they passed a new law encouraging even more illegal immigration.

Again, look at the open carry movement as a perfect example. They took the same position as you and tried to shove it down the public's throat, determined to change media and public perception through public protests. What happened with that strategy? It failed, and miserably.

This war, quite simply, is not going to be won there. They own the media, the legislature, and for the most part, the California court system. The war will be won through the federal courts and once that is accomplished, more people will be brought into the fold and gun ownership will become more of a way of life for many many more California residents. Only then do we have chance at gaining more acceptance by general public and mass media.

AyatollahGondola
01-04-2013, 10:36 AM
IAgain, look at the open carry movement as a perfect example. They took the same position as you and tried to shove it down the public's throat, determined to change media and public perception through public protests. What happened with that strategy? It failed, and miserably.
.

I could argue otherwise, but I'd rather not ignite that fire here. It's not the same, and will just attract a lot of people posting things that will just get the thread closed for going off topic or drifting or whatever the mods come up with. There's not going to be open carry at this event; at least that's the rules now.

Here's my take on things at present:
Not everyone is satisfied with the effort being conducted on their behalf. Maybe they're not all members of CGF, NRA, or whatever for their own reasons, and maybe they are but still feel they aren't being represented enough or the way they desire. As in the immigration debate, that same disatisfaction ignited public protests and rallies. People didn't believe that congress, their state reps, even local ones were getting the message, and they were also losing faith in organizations like FAIR, NumbersUSA, and such. those are great orgs too, but they didn't take that movement seriously at first either. It is my opinion that rather than a complete blackout and suppression effort, CG or whomever should start getting involved in the public events so they can influence that undercurrent that is starting to percolate, otherwise someone else, possibly less desirable will take the lead(s). I think it will flow regardless

Moonshine
01-04-2013, 10:46 AM
The majority of Californians want guns to be illegal. That majority comes from large blue urban counties and is very fearful of anything gun related because they have not ever had an experience with a gun. People fear the unknown and because they're not familiar with guns they fear them.

Protesting for your gun rights is just as silly as setting up tents in public parks and expecting to change the world... You'll make some noise, maybe get in the news for a bit, but eventually you'll just piss a lot of people off who WOULD have done nothing but thanks to you will now be writing their representative!

Why do you think open carry is illegal? Because people saw UOCers walking around with guns and it made them afraid. After seeing open carry people talked to their family, friends, and co-workers about it. Then they talked to their representative about it.

Be patient, be level headed, our time to defeat the latest round of crap will soon come and well use the same proven method we used last year: a grass roots approach writing letters and making phone calls to our representatives.

HKC
01-04-2013, 11:22 AM
I could argue otherwise, but I'd rather not ignite that fire here. It's not the same, and will just attract a lot of people posting things that will just get the thread closed for going off topic or drifting or whatever the mods come up with. There's not going to be open carry at this event; at least that's the rules now.

Here's my take on things at present:
Not everyone is satisfied with the effort being conducted on their behalf. Maybe they're not all members of CGF, NRA, or whatever for their own reasons, and maybe they are but still feel they aren't being represented enough or the way they desire. As in the immigration debate, that same disatisfaction ignited public protests and rallies. People didn't believe that congress, their state reps, even local ones were getting the message, and they were also losing faith in organizations like FAIR, NumbersUSA, and such. those are great orgs too, but they didn't take that movement seriously at first either. It is my opinion that rather than a complete blackout and suppression effort, CG or whomever should start getting involved in the public events so they can influence that undercurrent that is starting to percolate, otherwise someone else, possibly less desirable will take the lead(s). I think it will flow regardless

It's understandable that not everyone is satisfied, I'd argue that is an impossible goal to achieve anyway. I don't see anything to gain by trying appease people who are impatient and callous to the negative repercussions of their actions.

To me, these dissatisfied people are no better than the anti-gun folks who do things like push for an AWB. They are acting out of emotions just so they can say "hey at least I tried to do SOMETHING", even though that "something" may make the situation much worse. They somehow rationalize this behavior as being a good thing when in reality it is careless and selfish.

There is quite simply nothing to gain by this and a lot to lose. It's just not a wise strategy in my opinion.

1859sharps
01-04-2013, 12:08 PM
First, they paraded around with handguns, and got that banned.

Then they switched to long guns, and got that banned as well.

So, their plan was :shrug:

*adjusts tin foil*....if they were Brady campaign workers...the plan worked as well....planned ;)

in all seriousness, this is what you called unintended "planned" failure.

What these well intended individuals don't seem to get is that you absolutely have to "game" out a plan. I want X result, so I start by doing A...if I do A, B or C are possible results. I want B, how do I make B happen. If C starts happening what then and on and on until you reach your goal of X.

To succeed, you have to plan on success. MOST people don't know how to do this, or are NOT patient enough to do this.

tcrpe
01-04-2013, 12:20 PM
That's why Ben Franklin said, "Patience is a virtue."

Ah, the impatience of youth . . .

major burnout
01-08-2013, 5:08 PM
We can and should continue to write letters/schedule meetings to explain the constitution to our elected leaders. We should also hold rallies. Not at the capital but at our local media outlets. My local paper has been projecting gun owners in the same light as the misanthrope goons in this forum. The goons tell you not to stand up and be heard because someone else will make the 'movement' look bad. Hog wash. Let's hold local rallies and see who shows up. Look around next time you are in a gun store. Beside the bare shelves you will see average everyday Americans. This will be the majority at the rallies. Don't let the self-hating jerks in this thread discourage you from standing up for what you believe in.

darthnugget
01-08-2013, 5:48 PM
Personally I will not be attending or promoting this to anyone. Bill is correct, the media already has their talking points and they will gather quips and present them out of context. THIS IS A GUARANTEE.

The best course of action is to fill up their phones, mailboxes, email accounts voicing your opposition to new gun laws. Tying up their resources/staff prevents them from progressing on their bills. They get incentive (cough... paid) from lobbyists to pass bills. If they are busy with calls, emails, and letters they can not make their money.

Call, call again, call again, call again, and again! Write, write again, email again, and again! Taking their time kills their money flow. Time=Money and they will realize it is not worth the little money they are being paid to fight this battle.

kaligaran
01-08-2013, 6:03 PM
well now I regret starting this thread - I want to do something because I really am getting fed up but at the same time... what is there to do?
I may or may not attend this. I am not promoting it, I am not the organizer just someone that wanted to see more smart people on board but it looks like all the "smart ones" want to stay as far away as possible so as not to appear like crazies when the media reports on it.

Your idea in concept is fantastic.
However, just in practice it usually never turns out like you would expect. :(

As to what to do...

Use the money you would spend to attend this event and donate it to your pro-2A activist groups (Calguns, NRA, etc).
Join the NRA.
Use THIS (http://www.congress.org/congressorg/mail/?alertid=61046526&type=ML)link to send letters EVERY DAY to your reps. You can either type it up and print/mail yourself or email through their site.
Educate your friends/family that aren't 2A activists.
Take some non-gunnie friends/family to the range.


If everyone on this forum would do those things, it would have an astounding impact. Imagine if everyone in the NRA did that?

Vikingdad
01-08-2013, 6:42 PM
I have just been reading all of this and it seems to me that you are your own worst enemies. Of course the media will only portray the crazed NRA camo'd militia whackos. Because they will be the only ones to show up after all of this naysaying. I can imagine Leland Yee has one of his minions monitoring this forum and pumping his fist in victory with ever post mocking the very idea of an organized protest. Way to go Calgunners! Consider the towel to have been thrown in.

As for me I will wait to see how things develop, but I most likely would show up. If only in a futile attempt to present the face of one responsible, well spoken, calm and concise California resident who sees our side of the discussion to be under-represented or misrepresented by the aforementioned militia whackos.

Vikingdad
01-08-2013, 6:42 PM
I have just been reading all of this and it seems to me that you are your own worst enemies. Of course the media will only portray the crazed NRA camo'd militia whackos. Because they will be the only ones to show up after all of this naysaying. I can imagine Leland Yee has one of his minions monitoring this forum and pumping his fist in victory with ever post mocking the very idea of an organized protest. Way to go Calgunners! Consider the towel to have been thrown in.

As for me I will wait to see how things develop, but I most likely would show up. If only in a futile attempt to present the face of one responsible, well spoken, calm and concise California resident who sees our side of the discussion to be under-represented or misrepresented by the aforementioned militia whackos.

kaligaran
01-08-2013, 8:06 PM
I have just been reading all of this and it seems to me that you are your own worst enemies. Of course the media will only portray the crazed NRA camo'd militia whackos. Because they will be the only ones to show up after all of this naysaying. I can imagine Leland Yee has one of his minions monitoring this forum and pumping his fist in victory with ever post mocking the very idea of an organized protest. Way to go Calgunners! Consider the towel to have been thrown in.

As for me I will wait to see how things develop, but I most likely would show up. If only in a futile attempt to present the face of one responsible, well spoken, calm and concise California resident who sees our side of the discussion to be under-represented or misrepresented by the aforementioned militia whackos.

'Waiting to see how things develop' and 'most likely showing up' is not enough.
Unless you are financially backing our pro-2A organizations if financially possible and writing letters to all your reps (email is free)... That is what will help us in the upcoming battles.

oldstairdog
01-08-2013, 10:54 PM
1. Pro-2A organizations need to have the "masses" on their side. We don't have that. Therefore, we need a public relations person to organize us, cause you can bet, that anti-gun groups have them!
2. Why has the "NRA" only taken a defensive stance? Isn't it time we go on the offense?
3. Why not start a campaign to show that gun owners are people too! I have grand-children in school and they could have just as easliy been killed as the Sandy Hooks kids,(but for the grace of God).
4. Public Relations knows it all about EMOTION. Fear, is a large emotion. I think it's time to figure out why they (anti-gun) fear us so much?
Iv'e included a link to an interesting thesis on this fear.

http://www.vcdl.org/new/raging.htm
Raging Against Self Defense: A Psychiatrist Examines The Anti-Gun Mentality, By Sarah Thompson, M.D.

This just shows that there's a lot of work to convince the "Masses" that we are people also. However the masses go,so go the media!

All this rant to say: I'm over 50 or 60 and have antiquated ideas ,so I'm not going to the rally!
Oh yeah, whoever stated that piece about the "50 or 60's white haired guy" I'd like to point out that in a blink of the eye you'll be there too! LoL:oji:

safewaysecurity
01-09-2013, 4:24 PM
I say we wait for a HUGE demonstration once their bills are proposed. It would be nice to have an NRA sponsored protest. Or even a grassroots protest where people all gather up in Virginia buy the tens of thousands armed with their ARs loaded and then walk across slowly to the D.C border. Heck maybe they would even possibly cross the border into D.C and stand in front of the capital. What are the police going to do? Arrest 20,000 people armed with ARs?( Not suggesting people break the law btw )

safewaysecurity
01-09-2013, 4:24 PM
I say we wait for a HUGE demonstration once their bills are proposed. It would be nice to have an NRA sponsored protest. Or even a grassroots protest where people all gather up in Virginia buy the tens of thousands armed with their ARs loaded and then walk across slowly to the D.C border. Heck maybe they would even possibly cross the border into D.C and stand in front of the capital. What are the police going to do? Arrest 20,000 people armed with ARs?( Not suggesting people break the law btw )

berto
01-09-2013, 4:49 PM
I say we wait for a HUGE demonstration once their bills are proposed. It would be nice to have an NRA sponsored protest. Or even a grassroots protest where people all gather up in Virginia buy the tens of thousands armed with their ARs loaded and then walk across slowly to the D.C border. Heck maybe they would even possibly cross the border into D.C and stand in front of the capital. What are the police going to do? Arrest 20,000 people armed with ARs?( Not suggesting people break the law btw )

Yes, they would attempt to arrest any law breakers. And some yahoo (or plant) would act the fool and spark a horrific event resulting in disaster for anybody who loves this country.

paulbrenneman
01-09-2013, 6:46 PM
Fellow gun owners, this is NOT the time to nit-pick with each other! The situation we face is VERY clear.

IF WE DO NOT UNIFY AGAINST THE AWB WE WILL ALL LOOSE.

How can you people not see this! Some of you are sitting there saying "well this movement doesnt fully align with my views"...or "well i dont wanna go because the media will just ignore us" blah blah blah!

Fellow gun lovers and supporters of the Constitution! Lets come together to stop this!

rexbo47
01-09-2013, 8:49 PM
con·de·scend·ing

/ˌkändəˈsendiNG/

Adjective

1.Acting in a way that betrays a feeling of patronizing superiority.
2.(of an action) Demonstrating such an attitude.


Plenty of that going around these days.

0nTarg3t
01-09-2013, 9:43 PM
How is a protest a media group? It's not print media. It's not TV. It's not new media on the web. A vanity youtube feed seen by tens of people doesn't count.

If we're going to reach the mass of non gun owning people, people who don't really care about 2A but get upset when fed casualty count news stories, we need something better than protest at the Capitol that, best case, will be spoon fed to the masses as an angry event populated by loons. Do you have any ideas that make sense given our actual situation?

The Brady bunch had a die in of sorts in SF the weekend before Xmas. Did you see it on the news? Did you read about it in the paper?




You don't like Burt?

not naked:D

Kevin1987
01-12-2013, 7:07 PM
try being positive