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View Full Version : So the cops were going to "confiscate" my guns...


natedogg1777
08-20-2007, 1:52 PM
So let me preface this story...

It's my bachelor party weekend. The festivities were held at my family's 40 acre ranch in rural Yuba County -perfectly legal to shoot guns all day. The gun roster was something like this:

3 - CA legal AR-15s
1 - Mosin Nagant M44
2 - SKSs
1 - M1 Garand
2 - 10/22s
1 - XD40
1 - subcompact Glock 9mm (not sure of the #)
There was a handful of others...a couple of 12 gauges, 30-30 lever action etc.

So, Friday evening before dusk we go out and pop off a few rounds at some cans for about 15 minutes. Next thing you know, we see the Sheriff pulling onto the property...not up to the gate but actually THROUGH the gate and onto my property! I go walk over to him before he gets too far, he tells me he got a call that "there's a war going on, and I just want to make sure everyone's safe.". Fair enough, but between that and the following day of shooting they showed up 4 MORE TIMES! According to one Deputy, there is a retired Liutenant living on one of the surrounding properties who called in and claimed he heard "machine gun fire". Hello! When you have 8 people firing at the same time into a hill, it's going to sound like that! The one that really pissed me of though was the one that said, "I'm tired of getting these calls that people are shooting up here. If I have to come out here one more time I'm going to end up confiscating your weapons!"

Power trip much? I guess things like search warrants and probable cause are out the door these days. All you need is a disgruntled deputy who's tired of responding to pointless phone calls from frantic neighbors who need to realize they shouldn't have moved to the country if they didn't want to hear guns! Oh well, needless to say the next two times he showed up there was no confiscation going on. I guess I won that one!

proraptor
08-20-2007, 1:59 PM
I like how he threatened you guys with confiscation when he couldn't even do it lawfully....nice scare tactic but it didn't work

dfletcher
08-20-2007, 2:09 PM
I'm just curious - what would you (or anyone of us for that matter) do if we were sent someplace to deal with a war and machine gun fire? Well, we'd drive our car right up there without a care in the world, right? I would, right after SWAT left - and I'd still be in a 113 wearing my flack jacket. :punk:

So what do the police carry up there? I presume if he got a call of a war going on with machine gun fire he was properly prepared to deal with the problem if he had a good faith belief the call was accurate?

rkt88edmo
08-20-2007, 2:13 PM
I can't believe they kept responding, must be bored.

caduckgunner
08-20-2007, 2:28 PM
I can't believe they kept responding, must be bored.

Well duh..... It's Yuba County, what else is going one, chicken theft :wheelchair:

lawnrevenge
08-20-2007, 2:31 PM
I bet they just wanted you to let them shoot a little too. Very rude to not let your guests plink too!
If a cop ever pulled the confiscation card I'd laugh at ask if he was one of the California cops that went to NOLA after Katrina.

StukaJr
08-20-2007, 2:33 PM
So was the Sheriff made aware of his blundering onto the private property?

But being a good neighbor usually is limited to prior talking to and extends to an invitation when loud activities are planned - well, maybe not for Bachelor Party. I think it was a case of envy.

natedogg1777
08-20-2007, 2:37 PM
Well duh..... It's Yuba County, what else is going one, chicken theft :wheelchair:

Deputy #4 that showed up actually took off halfway through the conversation to respond to a hold-up at the gas station down the road. Of course, before he left he made if clear that he would be back...and he did come back.

The most ridiculous part about that one was the he actually pulled my friend over, because he was doing donuts on a quad well within our property lines!? WTF!

natedogg1777
08-20-2007, 2:39 PM
So was the Sheriff made aware of his blundering onto the private property?

But being a good neighbor usually is limited to prior talking to and extends to an invitation when loud activities are planned - well, maybe not for Bachelor Party. I think it was a case of envy.

What is the letter of the law regarding the cops actually driving onto the property? Do rumors of "machine gun fire" give them probable cause to stroll on in?

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 2:45 PM
I can't believe they kept responding, must be bored.

Unfortunately, we have to answer every radio call regardless of how serious we feel it is.



Also, I'm sure the threat of confiscation was just a scare tactic to get you guys to keep it down. He didn't take your guns right? I don't know what you are complaining about. You are lucky that you weren't cited for disturbing the peace if there were that many complaints about the noise.

You should have asked him if he wanted to send some downrange with you guys!

-aK-
08-20-2007, 2:46 PM
What is the letter of the law regarding the cops actually driving onto the property? Do rumors of "machine gun fire" give them probable cause to stroll on in?

NO. ESPECIALLY after confirming everything was lawfull the first visit.

What law is being broken if someone hears "machine gun fire" ???

metalhead357
08-20-2007, 2:48 PM
tag to watch....this is gonna be good

//metalhead getting popcorn:)

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 2:58 PM
NO. ESPECIALLY after confirming everything was lawfull the first visit.

What law is being broken if someone hears "machine gun fire" ???

You property is not considered the inside of your house. You do not have the same constitutional protections of being in your house while you are standing in the middle of a field. If there is a call for service on your land, LE has an obligation to investigate and can drive to wherever they have to. Tough, but that's the way it works.

If it bothers you that much, put a fence up and lock the gates.;)


Also, if "machine gun fire" or whatever noise is heard and meets the below definition according to the LEO handling the call, then....


415 PC: Any of the following persons shall be punished by imprisonment
in the county jail for a period of not more than 90 days, a fine of
not more than four hundred dollars ($400), or both such imprisonment
and fine:
(1) Any person who unlawfully fights in a public place or
challenges another person in a public place to fight.
(2) Any person who maliciously and willfully disturbs another
person by loud and unreasonable noise.
(3) Any person who uses offensive words in a public place which
are inherently likely to provoke an immediate violent reaction.

Fate
08-20-2007, 2:58 PM
Isn't "disturbing the peace" based on local ordinance? I seriously doubt that there is going to be such a thing on the books in BFE.

Edit: I don't see how 415 PC applies if you're on private property shooting. It's not willfully or maliciously making noise to piss off your neighbors. It's shooting! There's no malice in plinking. Now if you're getting your bullhorn out and every morning at 4am you're shouting, "WAKE UP, Old Man Brown!" that's different.

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 3:00 PM
What is the letter of the law regarding the cops actually driving onto the property? Do rumors of "machine gun fire" give them probable cause to stroll on in?

LE does not need probable cause to drive onto your property.

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 3:03 PM
The most ridiculous part about that one was the he actually pulled my friend over, because he was doing donuts on a quad well within our property lines!? WTF!

Reckless driving applies to Off Highway Vehicles and can be enforced regardless of property lines (publice/private/etc.). It is a misdemeanor criminal offense, not a simple infraction.


I wasn't there, so, I can't say if it was reckless operation or not, but that would be my guess as to why he got stopped.

AJAX22
08-20-2007, 3:05 PM
Back home the best parties were always held at the lawyers house.

He'd back two SUV's up so that it was physically impossible for cruisers to get through the driveway (If they made it into the gated community in the first place) then he'd stand in between the bumpers and sip a martini while he greeted his guests.

When the police showed up he'd simply give them his buisness card state that nothing illigal was occuring on his property and that they were tresspassing since they came through the electronic gate without permission. He'd thank them for informing him that he had had a few noise complaints (from some jerkoff neighbors who lived about a half mile away) however there were no enforcable ordinances since he lived in an unincorporated area, He'd state that no underage drinking was occuring, and that no one would be leaving the party that evening so drunk driving was not an issue they had to worry about.

It seems to me that you could have just blocked off your road, informed the police that nothing illigal was occuring and that they were unwelcome to attend the private affair. If they came back, it'd be time to call the supervisor. (It also wouldn't hurt to invite wealthy attornys to your get togeathers)

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 3:06 PM
Isn't "disturbing the peace" based on local ordinance? I seriously doubt that there is going to be such a thing on the books in BFE.

Edit: I don't see how 415 PC applies if you're on private property shooting. It's not willfully or maliciously making noise to piss off your neighbors. It's shooting! There's no malice in plinking.

I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure. 415 PC is not based on local ordinances, however, there can be local ordinances in place that are stricter than penal code definition, but the other way around. Also, 415 PC would/could apply and is not based on property lines. If you are too loud while having a house party and your neighbor complains, it is the same thing.

Obviously, the poster is not as far in BFE as he thought, otherwise, his neighbors wouldn't have called so many times.;)

metalhead357
08-20-2007, 3:08 PM
LE does not need probable cause to drive onto your property.


No, they dont, but I'm gonna steal this from Sam and another linkie place he got it from on land rights.........just something to consider

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f115/metalhead357/The%20Boys%20in%20Black/No_Trespassing.jpg

Fate
08-20-2007, 3:09 PM
IIf you are too loud while having a house party and your neighbor complains, it is the same thing.
I was editing my post and I think you missed my "bullhorn" scenario. But is a house party "maliciously and willfully" making unreasonably loud noises? I don't think so. Yes, it's loud, but it's not done to piss off your neighbor. Same with plinking or riding your ATVs all day.

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 3:12 PM
Back home the best parties were always held at the lawyers house.

He'd back two SUV's up so that it was physically impossible for cruisers to get through the driveway (If they made it into the gated community in the first place) then he'd stand in between the bumpers and sip a martini while he greeted his guests.

When the police showed up he'd simply give them his buisness card state that nothing illigal was occuring on his property and that they were tresspassing since they came through the electronic gate without permission. He'd thank them for informing him that he had had a few noise complaints (from some jerkoff neighbors who lived about a half mile away) however there were no enforcable ordinances since he lived in an unincorporated area, He'd state that no underage drinking was occuring, and that no one would be leaving the party that evening so drunk driving was not an issue they had to worry about.

It seems to me that you could have just blocked off your road, informed the police that nothing illigal was occuring and that they were unwelcome to attend the private affair. If they came back, it'd be time to call the supervisor. (It also wouldn't hurt to invite wealthy attornys to your get togeathers)

Just as an FYI, you could be charged with obstruction if you follow the above suggestion. A LEO has a legal obligation and is required to investigate any possible violations of the law. It is called due dilligence.

You are just as free to complain about the LEOs intrusion into your private gathering as the citizen down the street who called it in will be when the LEO does not investigate it or attempt resolution. Both sides aren't always going to end up happy. Both could end up in a complaint from the LEO....life will go on.

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 3:14 PM
I was editing my post and I think you missed my "bullhorn" scenario. But is a house party "maliciously and willfully" making unreasonably loud noises? I don't think so. Yes, it's loud, but it's not done to piss off your neighbor. Same with plinking or riding your ATVs all day.

Willful/Malicious would mean that you have been told (by a LEO/neighbor) that you are being too loud and are asked to keep it down. Then, after the LEO leaves, you start being loud again. That is definitely willful and could be construed as a malicious. ESPECIALLY after you have been notified that it is disturbing other people. You are intentionally disturbing others at that point.

-aK-
08-20-2007, 3:15 PM
You property is not considered the inside of your house. You do not have the same constitutional protections of being in your house while you are standing in the middle of a field. If there is a call for service on your land, LE has an obligation to investigate and can drive to wherever they have to. Tough, but that's the way it works.

If it bothers you that much, put a fence up and lock the gates.;)


Also, if "machine gun fire" or whatever noise is heard and meets the below definition according to the LEO handling the call, then....

The op said that they drove through the gate. Sounds to me like they went inside a fence line through a gate and onto private property.

Do you think 8 guys plinking cans on private property can be considered maliciously disturbing another person?

arguy15
08-20-2007, 3:16 PM
What does machinegun fire sound like? I can bump fire my M1A at a rate of 750 rounds a minute (I have recorded my self doing it and did the math later on). It sounds like a good olded M240G.

Semper Fi

metalhead357
08-20-2007, 3:17 PM
Do you think 8 guys plinking cans on private property can be considered maliciously disturbing another person?

If some commonality emerges over days/weeks...I'd say there might be a case. But NOT on the same range-day!!!!!

-aK-
08-20-2007, 3:17 PM
Willful/Malicious would mean that you have been told (by a LEO/neighbor) that you are being too loud and are asked to keep it down. Then, after the LEO leaves, you start being loud again. That is definitely willful and could be construed as a malicious. ESPECIALLY after you have been notified that it is disturbing other people. You are intentionally disturbing others at that point.

So if my neighbor thinks that my harley is too loud and he calls the cops and they tell me I need to keep it down I can no longer drive my harley down the street?

natedogg1777
08-20-2007, 3:19 PM
The 3rd deputy to arrive was a very nice gentleman, stopped at the gate and we actually had a nice chat for a while. He explained to me that there were a lot of people who have moved up here from the Bay area in recent years that freak out when they hear gun fire, but the bottom line is there is nothing illegal about people shooting on their property. He never mentioned anything about a potential noise violation or disturbance of the peace...the gist of it was "you're fine".

If only the other deputies had the same attitude.

metalhead357
08-20-2007, 3:21 PM
The 3rd deputy to arrive was a very nice gentleman, stopped at the gate and we actually had a nice chat for a while. He explained to me that there were a lot of people who have moved up here from the Bay area in recent years that freak out when they hear gun fire, but the bottom line is there is nothing illegal about people shooting on their property. He never mentioned anything about a potential noise violation or disturbance of the peace...the gist of it was "you're fine"..

Now THAT GUY is the one ya' wanna invite in to shoot and come have a beer after work.........

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 3:22 PM
So if my neighbor thinks that my harley is too loud and he calls the cops and they tell me I need to keep it down I can no longer drive my harley down the street?

If it is at 4am? Maybe. If it is at 8am? Probably not. Is it considered unreasonable? It is all going to depend on the totality of the circumstances.


Just driving a Harley down the street is not going to be enough. If you neighbor complains about that, you probably have some bigger issues. If you host Harley drag races in the middle of the night, well...

-aK-
08-20-2007, 3:22 PM
If some commonality emerges over days/weeks...I'd say there might be a case. But NOT on the same range-day!!!!!

I'd disagree with that even. If someone is responsibly shooting on their own property then they can do it once a day every day after work if they wanted to. There is nothing willfully malicious about target practice once a day after work.

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 3:23 PM
The 3rd deputy to arrive was a very nice gentleman, stopped at the gate and we actually had a nice chat for a while. He explained to me that there were a lot of people who have moved up here from the Bay area in recent years that freak out when they hear gun fire, but the bottom line is there is nothing illegal about people shooting on their property. He never mentioned anything about a potential noise violation or disturbance of the peace...the gist of it was "you're fine".

If only the other deputies had the same attitude.


Like I said, I wasn't there and don't know all of the circumstances. If he said that you are fine, then you should be fine.

tiki
08-20-2007, 3:24 PM
Reckless driving applies to Off Highway Vehicles and can be enforced regardless of property lines (publice/private/etc.). It is a misdemeanor criminal offense, not a simple infraction.


Just goes to show how stupid these laws have become. I don't see how it should be anyone's business if you are on your land, on your quad, endangering your safety.

And reckless is another bunch of crap. Reckless to who?

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 3:25 PM
There is nothing willfully malicious about target practice once a day after work.

Again, that all depends. It depends on the proximity of other neighbors, the times involved, the duration, frequency of complaints, number of complainants, etc.

If 8 of your 9 neighbors complain about you being too loud, regardless of how you feel, you are probably being too loud.


Just because we don't agree with something, it does not negate the fact that there may still be a problem with it.

-aK-
08-20-2007, 3:26 PM
If it is at 4am? Maybe. If it is at 8am? Probably not. Is it considered unreasonable? It is all going to depend on the totality of the circumstances.


Just driving a Harley down the street is not going to be enough. If you neighbor complains about that, you probably have some bigger issues. If you host Harley drag races in the middle of the night, well...

Right, and he said it was before dusk... so that is what somewhere between 4pm and 8pm?

Exactly my point, just because my neighbor wants to complain about my loud Harley isn't enough to make me violating that pc you quoted because I'm not being malicious by driving to and from my house with a loud motorcycle. Just like it isn't malicious to conduct target practice on my property. Of course it may be different if it is 4 am... but in this scenario it wasnt'.

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 3:28 PM
Just goes to show how stupid these laws have become. I don't see how it should be anyone's business if you are on your land, on your quad, endangering your safety.

And reckless is another bunch of crap. Reckless to who?

Agreed! If you brake your neck on your own property because you were being unsafe/reckless, I don't really care. However, if you have a kid riding on the back of your ATV and he falls off and breaks his neck because you were being reckless, then we are going to have problems.

That is where discretion come into play. Other LEOs might feel differently about the subject, but we are all different in some ways.

-aK-
08-20-2007, 3:28 PM
Again, that all depends. It depends on the proximity of other neighbors, the times involved, the duration, frequency of complaints, number of complainants, etc.

If 8 of your 9 neighbors complain about you being too loud, regardless of how you feel, you are probably being too loud.


Just because we don't agree with something, it does not negate the fact that there may still be a problem with it.

You still haven't proved that I'm being malicious.

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 3:29 PM
Right, and he said it was before dusk... so that is what somewhere between 4pm and 8pm?

Exactly my point, just because my neighbor wants to complain about my loud Harley isn't enough to make me violating that pc you quoted because I'm not being malicious by driving to and from my house with a loud motorcycle. Just like it isn't malicious to conduct target practice on my property. Of course it may be different if it is 4 am... but in this scenario it wasnt'.

Well, that's probably why he wasn't charged with disturbing the peace!


It does not mean that LEOs are not going to respond/investigate though. Just because it wasn't too loud/whatever earlier, doesn't mean that it can't be now. Does that make sense?

MudCamper
08-20-2007, 3:30 PM
If 8 of your 9 neighbors complain about you being too loud, regardless of how you feel, you are probably being too loud.

The problem with that statement is this:

He explained to me that there were a lot of people who have moved up here from the Bay area in recent years that freak out when they hear gun fire

This is a serious problem. A friend of mine refers to them as "415ers". Idiot yuppies who hit it big in the dot-com boom and moved to the "country" and don't like the locals or their forms of recreation.

Jicko
08-20-2007, 3:31 PM
Isn't "disturbing the peace" based on local ordinance? I seriously doubt that there is going to be such a thing on the books in BFE.

Edit: I don't see how 415 PC applies if you're on private property shooting. It's not willfully or maliciously making noise to piss off your neighbors. It's shooting! There's no malice in plinking. Now if you're getting your bullhorn out and every morning at 4am you're shouting, "WAKE UP, Old Man Brown!" that's different.

See... if they would allow us to purchase "silencers".... then we wouldn't be "distubring the peace" when we are legally shooting...

LAK Supply
08-20-2007, 3:32 PM
Reckless driving applies to Off Highway Vehicles and can be enforced regardless of property lines (publice/private/etc.). It is a misdemeanor criminal offense, not a simple infraction.


I wasn't there, so, I can't say if it was reckless operation or not, but that would be my guess as to why he got stopped.

This is not correct.... I had an exhibition of speed case a few years back because the cop came on to the private property where we were playing and gave me a ticket. It was thrown out because we were not on a public thoroughfare.....

dfletcher
08-20-2007, 3:32 PM
The 3rd deputy to arrive was a very nice gentleman......... He explained to me that there were a lot of people who have moved up here from the Bay area in recent years that freak out when they hear gun fire, but the bottom line is there is nothing illegal about people shooting on their property....the gist of it was "you're fine".

If only the other deputies had the same attitude.

So now it's official - even people from California don't like it when "Californians" move into their neighborhood. I have never understood why it is some people think they can move into someone else's back yard & tell them how to behave.

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 3:35 PM
This is not correct.... I had an exhibition of speed case a few years back because the cop came on to the private property where we were playing and gave me a ticket. It was thrown out because we were not on a public thoroughfare.....

23103 VC (a) Any person who drives any vehicle upon a highway in
willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property is
guilty of reckless driving.
(b) Any person who drives any vehicle in any offstreet parking
facility, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12500, in willful
or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property is guilty
of reckless driving.
(c) Persons convicted of the offense of reckless driving shall be
punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than five days
nor more than 90 days or by a fine of not less than one hundred
forty-five dollars ($145) nor more than one thousand dollars
($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment, except as provided
in Section 23104.


That only applies to offstreet parking. If you were on a OHV the section would be different. I will try to find it.

50 Freak
08-20-2007, 3:40 PM
Personally I'd put away all the "grey area" guns (like your OLL, unless you feel like being a test case) and then invite everyone here on Calguns for a shoot/meet at your place.

I'll make sure to bring my registered 50's and my buddy will bring his 1919s. Then we all have a grand day of shooting/BBQ. Screw your neighbors. They passed the line each and every time they wasted the LE's time by calling them.

-aK-
08-20-2007, 3:55 PM
Well, that's probably why he wasn't charged with disturbing the peace!


It does not mean that LEOs are not going to respond/investigate though. Just because it wasn't too loud/whatever earlier, doesn't mean that it can't be now. Does that make sense?

How could gunfire be any louder than it was the first time? If it was legal the first time, and it was, then it would still be legal the second time. (assuming it is not after 10pm)

Sal
08-20-2007, 4:03 PM
From the way i see it, the cops were not showing up due to noise complaints, but rather because the neighbors thought it was a machine gun being fired. Hence why the cops never mentioned disturbing the peace etc.

aplinker
08-20-2007, 4:08 PM
Well duh..... It's Yuba County, what else is going one, chicken theft :wheelchair:

Escaped goose?
http://www.aolcdn.com/aolmovies/hot-fuzz-insert-caption-433

tiki
08-20-2007, 4:30 PM
Just because we don't agree with something, it does not negate the fact that there may still be a problem with it.


Yes, but...
Just because we don't agree with something, it does not negate the fact that there may still not be a problem with it. :)

tiki
08-20-2007, 4:32 PM
I have never understood why it is some people think they can move into someone else's back yard & tell them how to behave.

I especially love the idiots that move next to an airport and then complain about the low flying aircraft and aircraft noise.
I can't believe that anyone even listens to an idiot like that.

carsonwales
08-20-2007, 4:40 PM
Just as an FYI, you could be charged with obstruction if you follow the above suggestion. A LEO has a legal obligation and is required to investigate any possible violations of the law. It is called due dilligence.

You are just as free to complain about the LEOs intrusion into your private gathering as the citizen down the street who called it in will be when the LEO does not investigate it or attempt resolution. Both sides aren't always going to end up happy. Both could end up in a complaint from the LEO....life will go on.

What a bunch of Bull CRAP...LEO have way to much latitude in my opinion...and they abuse it freely and readily...especially the buzz cut storm trooper kids that are making up law enforcement these days.

You sound like a cop by the way...ready to jump someones fence and bust up a party in hopes of catching someone on some legal technicality...then argue some veiled probable cause bs...

I had a cop jump a fence at my place because he was suspicious that underage drinking was going on after responding to a noise complaint. I had a notice posted on the door for any LEO that showed up that they could call my cell phone I would come to the door....I guess that wasn't good enough.

Imagine the cops surprise when he ran into an assistant DA from my county at the party who promptly took his badge number, and informed he had 30 seconds to leave or the Sheriff would arrest him.

scewper
08-20-2007, 4:44 PM
If it is at 4am? Maybe. If it is at 8am? Probably not. Is it considered unreasonable? It is all going to depend on the totality of the circumstances.


Just driving a Harley down the street is not going to be enough. If you neighbor complains about that, you probably have some bigger issues. If you host Harley drag races in the middle of the night, well...

Sounds like my neighborhood. Every Friday and Saturday at ~1:30-2am I can hear people on their harleys or vettes jammin through every gear. Oh yeah this is a 25 mph zone too.

natedogg1777
08-20-2007, 4:50 PM
what did the cops have to say about your oll


Believe it or not, they never asked to see or inspect any of our weapons...wait, I mean "sporting rifles".

pslung
08-20-2007, 5:01 PM
Reckless driving applies to Off Highway Vehicles and can be enforced regardless of property lines (publice/private/etc.). It is a misdemeanor criminal offense, not a simple infraction.


I wasn't there, so, I can't say if it was reckless operation or not, but that would be my guess as to why he got stopped.

Really? So if I had a big piece of land and built a track on it, an LEO can drive up to my track, pull me over, and give me a speeding ticket? That doesn't sound right.

emc002
08-20-2007, 5:13 PM
We call them BARs (Bay Area Refugees).
A friend of mine refers to them as "415ers". Idiot yuppies who hit it big in the dot-com boom and moved to the "country" and don't like the locals or their forms of recreation.

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 5:16 PM
Really? So if I had a big piece of land and built a track on it, an LEO can drive up to my track, pull me over, and give me a speeding ticket? That doesn't sound right.

For a crime (misdemeanor or felony), yes. An infraction (such as speeding), no.

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 5:22 PM
What a bunch of Bull CRAP...LEO have way to much latitude in my opinion...and they abuse it freely and readily...especially the buzz cut storm trooper kids that are making up law enforcement these days.

And you are entitled to your opinion...but that does not make you an expert on the subject matter.:rolleyes:

You sound like a cop by the way...ready to jump someones fence and bust up a party in hopes of catching someone on some legal technicality...then argue some veiled probable cause bs...
:nopity:
I am a cop. And you sound like someone that I have probably arrested. What's your point?

You have been caught in the past, didn't like or did not agree with the reasons you were given and now choose to complain about it here?:confused:

You bland generalizations about LE are clearly either youthful exuberance or ignorance.
I had a cop jump a fence at my place because he was suspicious that underage drinking was going on after responding to a noise complaint. I had a notice posted on the door for any LEO that showed up that they could call my cell phone I would come to the door....I guess that wasn't good enough.

Well, unfortunately for you, you don't get to determine how a LEO does his job. A note doesn't have anything to do with how a LEO is going to respond to a call at your house.

Imagine the cops surprise when he ran into an assistant DA from my county at the party who promptly took his badge number, and informed he had 30 seconds to leave or the Sheriff would arrest him.

Jack booted storm trooper jerk...
:beatdeadhorse5:

Sure ya did. :troll:


Everyone has something to prove.:rolleyes:

pslung
08-20-2007, 5:25 PM
For a crime (misdemeanor or felony), yes. An infraction (such as speeding), no.

Well, let's say I drove 200mph on my own private track. That's gotta be reckless driving on a normal road, which would probably make it a misdemeanor. So in that case, the LEO can pull me over on my own private track, and give me a ticket? Or even worse, can he haul me to jail?

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 5:28 PM
Well, let's say I drove 200mph on my own private track. That's gotta be reckless driving on a normal road, which would probably make it a misdemeanor. So in that case, the LEO can pull me over on my own private track, and give me a ticket? Or even worse, can he haul me to jail?

If it is on a private track, then I am sure you have all of the permits/insurance certs that allow you to be driving at those speeds.;) Otherwise, you would see Jeff Gordon go to jail every time he races...

tiki
08-20-2007, 5:45 PM
Maybe we should be pursuing gangs, drug dealers and other criminals instead of wasting our time and taxpayer money worrying about what people are doing with their property while on their property if they aren't hurting anyone else.

EricCartmann
08-20-2007, 5:47 PM
I am never going ever to donate to any police type charity or special event ever again. They are getting worse and worse.

carsonwales
08-20-2007, 5:47 PM
And you are entitled to your opinion...but that does not make you an expert on the subject matter.:rolleyes:


:nopity:
I am a cop. And you sound like someone that I have probably arrested. What's your point?

You have been caught in the past, didn't like or did not agree with the reasons you were given and now choose to complain about it here?:confused:

You bland generalizations about LE are clearly either youthful exuberance or ignorance.


Well, unfortunately for you, you don't get to determine how a LEO does his job. A note doesn't have anything to do with how a LEO is going to respond to a call at your house.


:beatdeadhorse5:

Sure ya did. :troll:


Everyone has something to prove.:rolleyes:

Whatever...

Your preconceived opinions shape your response...and only confirm in my opinion what kind of cop you are. The old US vs Them mentality that has grown so damn pervasive these days.

Don't forget who you work for...

Long gone are the days the majority of cops felt they were part of the community...and especially so in the suburbs. The jackboot mentality might be ok for a gang riddled community but not in my neck of the woods.

And in regards to the the Junior DA...he put the fear of god in that SOB...and I filed a formal complaint with department the following day.

Upon lodging the complaint I met with the chief and the watch commander that was on duty that evening...the Chief apologized.

During all subsequent party's we have had, his officers are briefed and use the two way radio hanging on the door to call me up from the rear of the property if we have a complaint.

Further, the department gets a printed venue of when and how long music will be playing prior to the party. When they get a complaint they simply tell the complainer that 'we are aware of the party' and they will shutting music down at 10:30.

Since that evening we have never had issues with the wannabe storm troopers, and that BAD cop no longer works in our community.

Crazed_SS
08-20-2007, 5:49 PM
Hey hitnrun, thanks for answering all these questions.

I know everyone is always coming up with a bunch of ridiculous hypothetical situations in an attempt to prove cops wrong or whatever. One of my good buddies is former LAPD and my best friend from High School just became a SD Sherriff's deputy.. One thing I've learned from talking to them is cops are not dumb. For the most part the cops know what they're doing and are well within regulations when they stop you, arrest you, walk up your driveway to investigate noise, etc, etc.. They're not all power-tripping storm troopers making up laws as they go along.

This thread reminds me of an episode of cops where some know-it-all is telling the police what they can and cant do and the cops are just sitting there laughing because the guy is totally clueless about police procedure.

carsonwales
08-20-2007, 5:50 PM
I am never going ever to donate to any police type charity or special event ever again. They are getting worse and worse.

Amen...to that.

Always try to deal with the older cops. The young ones with the butch cuts and tree trunk necks are to be avoided.

I have 4 friends who are CHP officers and I find CHP to be the most level headed of the LEO community.

EricCartmann
08-20-2007, 5:53 PM
And you are entitled to your opinion...but that does not make you an expert on the subject matter.:rolleyes:


:nopity:
I am a cop. And you sound like someone that I have probably arrested. What's your point?

You have been caught in the past, didn't like or did not agree with the reasons you were given and now choose to complain about it here?:confused:

You bland generalizations about LE are clearly either youthful exuberance or ignorance.


Well, unfortunately for you, you don't get to determine how a LEO does his job. A note doesn't have anything to do with how a LEO is going to respond to a call at your house.


:beatdeadhorse5:

Sure ya did. :troll:


Everyone has something to prove.:rolleyes:


you sir sound like a typical LEO. Ignorant of the laws and just want to look like your hot ****.

Cops should treat everybody and every situation if they were dealing with an assitant DA. You sir sound like a typical LEO to me.

pslung
08-20-2007, 5:53 PM
If it is on a private track, then I am sure you have all of the permits/insurance certs that allow you to be driving at those speeds.;) Otherwise, you would see Jeff Gordon go to jail every time he races...

Well, let's say I don't have any permits or insurance. It's not illegal to build a race track on my own private land if I'm the only one using it right? Heck, the car is probably not even close to street legal either. So can I still be arrested for driving my own car on my own track, not bothering or endangering anyone else but me?

50 Freak
08-20-2007, 5:54 PM
I don't think LE's are dumb. I think a few of them do use intimidation (as in this case) to try to convince you into doing what they want, regardless of what you were doing was legal or not.

HitNRun's contribution to this board is invaluable. But I have seen a trend in his posts that are pretty much Pro-LE, regardless of the situation. Seems like to me that to HitNRun, the LE community can do no wrong.

I'm not a believer in that. I think there are good LEs and bad LEs. Fortunately the good outnumber the bad. Unfortunately, the bad LE's seem to get most of the press.

Thanks for keeping this dicussion civil.

CalNRA
08-20-2007, 5:55 PM
you know, the whole episode could have been avoided if suppressors were legal for civilian usage in California, you know. I mean after all it seems to be a noise issue so if we all had suppressors for legal backyard shooting then the cops could have used their times more wisely like, oh, I don't know, look for meth-heads or look for rapists. But hey, your tax dollar at work. Last time I checked Yuba county is not completely crime free so I'm certain there is something the 4 deputies could have been doing besides checking up on a noise complaint.

good luck getting the police to support that though.

and how did I know this thread was gonna be good when I saw who was responding...

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 6:09 PM
Maybe we should be pursuing gangs, drug dealers and other criminals instead of wasting our time and taxpayer money worrying about what people are doing with their property while on their property if they aren't hurting anyone else.

Then kindly ask your neighbors to stop calling LE when they have a problem b/c you are being too loud. LE has no choice when someone calls but to respond. It is called due diligence. We would love to be jamming up the dealers and gangsters, but we're often too busy solving neighborly disputes.

pslung
08-20-2007, 6:12 PM
I know everyone is always coming up with a bunch of ridiculous hypothetical situations in an attempt to prove cops wrong or whatever. One of my good buddies is former LAPD and my best friend from High School just became a SD Sherriff's deputy.. One thing I've learned from talking to them is cops are not dumb. For the most part the cops know what they're doing and are well within regulations when they stop you, arrest you, walk up your driveway to investigate noise, etc, etc.. They're not all power-tripping storm troopers making up laws as they go along.


I always believed in the saying that "my right to swing my fist stops where your face begins." In the shooting noise issue, I can see how the LEO must make a judgement call, since someone is being bothered by the noise. However, with respect to the guy doing doughnuts on private property, I don't see why the LEO should have the right pull him over. He's obviously not endangering or bothering anyone, except himself. That's why I'm very surprised that the LEO has the authority to do so.

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 6:16 PM
you sir sound like a typical LEO. Ignorant of the laws and just want to look like your hot ****.

Cops should treat everybody and every situation if they were dealing with an assitant DA. You sir sound like a typical LEO to me.

I'm sorry...have we met before?

Ignorance of what laws? On the contrary, I am quite knowledgeable. However, nobody knows everything. I certainly don't claim to either. You sir, sound like a typical liar to me.

Cops should treat people like the situation requires. Obviously, you haven't tried to talk to a strung out meth head or a drunk while they are in the process of trying to kick your a**! Sir, please stop trying to claw my eyes out. I said please! :rolleyes::rofl2:

tiki
08-20-2007, 6:20 PM
During all subsequent party's we have had, his officers are briefed and use the two way radio hanging on the door to call me up from the rear of the property if we have a complaint.

Further, the department gets a printed venue of when and how long music will be playing prior to the party. When they get a complaint they simply tell the complainer that 'we are aware of the party' and they will shutting music down at 10:30.



Hey, how do I get an invite. :)

hitnrun
08-20-2007, 6:23 PM
Hey hitnrun, thanks for answering all these questions.

I know everyone is always coming up with a bunch of ridiculous hypothetical situations in an attempt to prove cops wrong or whatever. One of my good buddies is former LAPD and my best friend from High School just became a SD Sherriff's deputy.. One thing I've learned from talking to them is cops are not dumb. For the most part the cops know what they're doing and are well within regulations when they stop you, arrest you, walk up your driveway to investigate noise, etc, etc.. They're not all power-tripping storm troopers making up laws as they go along.

This thread reminds me of an episode of cops where some know-it-all is telling the police what they can and cant do and the cops are just sitting there laughing because the guy is totally clueless about police procedure.


Wow! Someone who understands that LE are people too. Actual humans no less!

Quickly, edit your post before being criticized as being a "supporter or a sympathizer." Pretty soon, the cops and there sympathizers around here will be wearing stars on there chests!:rolleyes::D



BTW, what was the original thread even about? I think this poor guy has been "Thread Jacked!" If you guys want to talk procedure, ask questions about LE, B*tch, moan, question or otherwise menstruate on LE, have some courtesy and start a new thread. I will respond there too...no worries.;)

.50DE
08-20-2007, 6:29 PM
Reckless driving applies to Off Highway Vehicles and can be enforced regardless of property lines (publice/private/etc.). It is a misdemeanor criminal offense, not a simple infraction.


I wasn't there, so, I can't say if it was reckless operation or not, but that would be my guess as to why he got stopped.


better head on out and write up all those moto jocks while they are making all those cool movies and taping the X games lol.

xdimitrix
08-20-2007, 6:35 PM
Also, I'm sure the threat of confiscation was just a scare tactic to get you guys to keep it down. He didn't take your guns right? I don't know what you are complaining about.

Yes, it is perfectly acceptable for the police to threaten others who are committing no crime.

I mean by that logic I can walk over to my neighbor's house and put a gun in his face, and demand he brings his garbage cans in on time. I mean it's just a scare tactic to get what I want; I wouldn't actually pull the trigger!

Something about ends, justifying, and means goes here.

bg
08-20-2007, 6:38 PM
(2) Any person who maliciously and willfully disturbs another
person by loud and unreasonable noise.
That should work both ways...

zefflyn
08-20-2007, 7:06 PM
Then kindly ask your neighbors to stop calling LE when they have a problem b/c you are being too loud. LE has no choice when someone calls but to respond. It is called due diligence. We would love to be jamming up the dealers and gangsters, but we're often too busy solving neighborly disputes.

And yet, LE has no obligation to stop a crime in progress, or protect the innocent.

eta34
08-20-2007, 7:15 PM
As usual, these types of threads go nowhere...glaring generalizations about each party. Police being called "jack booted thugs" and other tired references, as well as the same old "us vs. them" argument. Police using the "you don't understand because you haven't done the job" argument. This does nothing but make both sides look quite ignorant. Yawn.

Paratus et Vigilans
08-20-2007, 8:03 PM
Wow. I am SO not believing that a deputy DA "put the fear of God" into the local LEO's.

I had a couple of my law school classmates become LA County deputy DA's right out of law school, and we had the chat way back when about what they could and couldn't do with their nifty little DA ID cards, and if they had done what you describe, they would have become unemployed by LA County in a heartbeat. You truly must live in BFE or some old episode of The Rockford Files.

As for the whole jack booted thug issue, yeah, clearly there are some folks who ought not have badges and guns, but they do anyway. I'd like to think that they don't have them for too long, but you never know, some people are good at hiding their bad conduct from those who are in a position to terminate it, and them. On the other hand, there are, I am sure, far more LEO's out there doing an outstanding job under difficult circumstances, and I always go out of my way to make their job easier. Strangely enough, I find that this sort of approach means that I never have problems with LEO's. I'm not saying I never will, because anything's possible, but outside of meeting up with one snotty CHP officer when I was 18 and being stupid anyway, I've got no complaints, and at 47 I figure I'm already more than halfway home, so I think the odds are pretty good that I'll never have a problem.

Most LEO's I deal with seem to be level headed and trying to do the best job they can, using a mix of common sense and the appropriate dose of authority where needed. If Hitnrun is an example of a typical LEO, then based on his posts here, I think we're doing pretty good overall.

Going back to the post that started all this, 40 acres isn't all that much land when you're shooting on it, and the poster never said whether the shooting was in the middle of the property or on the edges, unless he did and I just missed it, so it's not wholly unreasonable for a neighbor to call it in when he/she hears a whole lot of gunfire going on there. Maybe this could have been avoided by one neighbor letting another neighbor know in advance what was planned, so there would be no misunderstandings. What if it was a home takeover and robbery/murder in progress and the neighbor just ignored it until the smell of rotting bodies wafted over the property line?

We are, in fact, a society, not just a bunch of individuals living in close proximity to one another. Societies have rules, and have governments and law enforcement bodies to enforce the rules. Most of the rules have some common sense basis, and most misunderstandings can be easily avoided by open communications. If you're going to throw a bash, let the neighbors know in advance and, if you're smart, invite them over. If you're going to have shooting at the party, then you really ought to let the neighbors know this in advance, even if they're half a mile down the road. Rights and responsibilities go hand in hand. Sure, private property is "private," but noise and bullets don't respect property lines. It helps to be considerate of others.

As for the chief who apologized when you complained about the fence jumping officer looking for under age drinking, I don't think your deputy DA buddy had anything to do with that. That was just good PR to apologize. The fence jumping was not a smart thing to do. As for the notes and two-way hung on your door for parties. . . well, no comment other than I would not expect to have a LEO responding to a noise complaint to, uh, "comply" with such requests. If it's after ten and you're bugging the neighbors, you're probably going to get a distrubing the peace citation, and you probably should, too. Just because you want to party doesn't mean your whole neighborhood wants to party, nor does the whole neighborhood appreciate your party. You may not feel that to be true now, but just wait ten or twenty years . . . you will! :D

A little courtesy on all sides, and this life can be quite enjoyable for all . . . IMHO . . .

pslung
08-20-2007, 8:06 PM
Wow! Someone who understands that LE are people too. Actual humans no less!


I think most of us understand that LE's are people, actual humans. However, we must also keep in mind that LE's, like actual humans, can do wrong. So if every response to a questionable LE behavior is "it's legal", then the rest of us is going to start wondering if they speak the "right and wrong" language, since most of us aren't LE's or lawyers.

For example, it may be legal to threaten the shooters with confiscation of firearms, but it's not right to threaten people who are obviously innocent and pose no threat. It may be legal to pull the guy on the quad over, but it's not right to harass people who are obviously not endangering anyone on their own private land. Ofcourse, there could be very good reasons why the LE's did what they did, and the rest of us simply don't understand it because we have no LE knowledge. In that case, explaining the reasoning behind the action is probably a better course of action than simply saying that the LE action is legal. Just my 2 cents.

Piper
08-20-2007, 8:17 PM
Geez, I really can't believe what I'm reading.

Here's the deal about 415's, riding on private property, guns and all the other things that go on in rural areas.

I've been exposed to LE on military posts in the states and overseas and I've been exposed to LE in cities and rural areas,so let me put my two cents in here and clear this up.

First off, suburban cops freak out over anything that sounds like gunfire and that's just a fact. Rural cops deal with hunters and plinkers who find a burm or an open field and shoot safely.

Now there's a reason for city cops freaking over gunshots. Most of the cities they work in really don't have alot of places to legally shoot, whereas in the case of rural areas, they are wide open and shooting is pretty much a normal thing.

In the city, doing donuts in the city will probably get you a 23103 cite because it's out of the norm, whereas doing donuts in rural areas will probably have a cop like me ask you if you've ever been to Glamis.

In the city, cops have so many B.S. calls that they get frustrated in dealing with B.S. calls and will say just about anything to stop the calls. In a rural area, cops will probably check it out and see just how loud it is and note the time they went by. A rule of thumb for me was if it is a party and the noise is typical for that size of party and there are no other crimes being commited, you just go to the RP and tell them that the noise isn't illegal. On the flip side, there is case law that says noise at concert or party level is unreasonable between the hours of 2200 to 0600 hrs. For that matter, using your weedwacker is considered unreasonable if your using it between those hours.

If you had some rural cop making that kind of noise, and I experienced those kind when I was a cop, he's just a dork. I and others like me used to laugh at rookies like that. So that's my $0.02 worth. :D

Oh, btw, there's a rule of thumb.......or at least there used to be, that you never threaten to do anything you can't backup. It just makes you look foolish when someone draws a line in the sand and dares you to step over it.

jdberger
08-20-2007, 8:46 PM
Wow. I am SO not believing that a deputy DA "put the fear of God" into the local LEO's.

I had a couple of my law school classmates become LA County deputy DA's right out of law school, and we had the chat way back when about what they could and couldn't do with their nifty little DA ID cards, and if they had done what you describe, they would have become unemployed by LA County in a heartbeat. You truly must live in BFE or some old episode of The Rockford Files.

As for the whole jack booted thug issue, yeah, clearly there are some folks who ought not have badges and guns, but they do anyway. I'd like to think that they don't have them for too long, but you never know, some people are good at hiding their bad conduct from those who are in a position to terminate it, and them. On the other hand, there are, I am sure, far more LEO's out there doing an outstanding job under difficult circumstances, and I always go out of my way to make their job easier. Strangely enough, I find that this sort of approach means that I never have problems with LEO's. I'm not saying I never will, because anything's possible, but outside of meeting up with one snotty CHP officer when I was 18 and being stupid anyway, I've got no complaints, and at 47 I figure I'm already more than halfway home, so I think the odds are pretty good that I'll never have a problem.

Most LEO's I deal with seem to be level headed and trying to do the best job they can, using a mix of common sense and the appropriate dose of authority where needed. If Hitnrun is an example of a typical LEO, then based on his posts here, I think we're doing pretty good overall.

Going back to the post that started all this, 40 acres isn't all that much land when you're shooting on it, and the poster never said whether the shooting was in the middle of the property or on the edges, unless he did and I just missed it, so it's not wholly unreasonable for a neighbor to call it in when he/she hears a whole lot of gunfire going on there. Maybe this could have been avoided by one neighbor letting another neighbor know in advance what was planned, so there would be no misunderstandings. What if it was a home takeover and robbery/murder in progress and the neighbor just ignored it until the smell of rotting bodies wafted over the property line?

We are, in fact, a society, not just a bunch of individuals living in close proximity to one another. Societies have rules, and have governments and law enforcement bodies to enforce the rules. Most of the rules have some common sense basis, and most misunderstandings can be easily avoided by open communications. If you're going to throw a bash, let the neighbors know in advance and, if you're smart, invite them over. If you're going to have shooting at the party, then you really ought to let the neighbors know this in advance, even if they're half a mile down the road. Rights and responsibilities go hand in hand. Sure, private property is "private," but noise and bullets don't respect property lines. It helps to be considerate of others.

As for the chief who apologized when you complained about the fence jumping officer looking for under age drinking, I don't think your deputy DA buddy had anything to do with that. That was just good PR to apologize. The fence jumping was not a smart thing to do. As for the notes and two-way hung on your door for parties. . . well, no comment other than I would not expect to have a LEO responding to a noise complaint to, uh, "comply" with such requests. If it's after ten and you're bugging the neighbors, you're probably going to get a distrubing the peace citation, and you probably should, too. Just because you want to party doesn't mean your whole neighborhood wants to party, nor does the whole neighborhood appreciate your party. You may not feel that to be true now, but just wait ten or twenty years . . . you will! :D

A little courtesy on all sides, and this life can be quite enjoyable for all . . . IMHO . . .

Wow! I couldn't have said it better myself.

Y'all give hitnrun and the other cops on this board a regular ration of crap - and it is to be expected in some way - after all, gunowners are pretty generally individualists - but take a step of your horses and listen to what the man is saying.

Keep your nose clean, be polite and respectful and you'll get along better in life (as well as with the police).

Just my two cents....

Fate
08-20-2007, 8:50 PM
I have 4 friends who are CHP officers and I find CHP to be the most level headed of the LEO community.
Waitaminute. Wasn't it the CHP that was confiscating firearms in NOLA?

Oopsie.

five.five-six
08-20-2007, 8:57 PM
. A LEO has a legal obligation and is required to investigate any possible violations of the law. It is called due dilligence.




that can not possabley be true... anyone ever had theyer car broken in to... if you even want a report, you have to drive to the station... investigation HA HA HA HA... the guy up stairs from me selling pot??? HA HA HA HA HA HA.. the guy upstairs violating a court orderd injunction...ON VIDEO TAPE???? with whitnesses... repeatedly...HA HA HA HA... NOPE soundl like LEOs just pushing theyre weight around...

berto
08-20-2007, 8:58 PM
The first visit shouldn't be a problem, it's nothing more than a cop doing his job and making sure everything is kosher. The repeated visits are the same. The baseless threats are what make many of us leery when dealing with the police.

five.five-six
08-20-2007, 9:11 PM
That only applies to offstreet parking. If you were on a OHV the section would be different. I will try to find it.
23103 VC (a) Any person who drives any vehicle upon a highway in
willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property is
guilty of reckless driving.
(b) Any person who drives any vehicle in any offstreet parking
facility, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12500, in willful
or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property is guilty
of reckless driving.
(c) Persons convicted of the offense of reckless driving shall be
punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than five days
nor more than 90 days or by a fine of not less than one hundred
forty-five dollars ($145) nor more than one thousand dollars
($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment, except as provided
in Section 23104.



I do nt think that either situation occured in a parking facility, as defined in subdivision. you are free to do what you want. I do it all the time.. perfectly legal

as far as the disturbing the peace, you need a spl meter. there is typicly a threshold that has to be reached one for day time one for night time...off your property... there are plenty of construction tools that make as much noise as many guns.

aditionaly, the statute regarding disturbing the peace. specifies that the noise is unreasonable.. shooting on your property in a rural area is reasonable

wutzu
08-20-2007, 9:17 PM
Waitaminute. Wasn't it the CHP that was confiscating firearms in NOLA?

Oopsie.

The best CHP story I've ever heard was from Cops I worked with in SLO. The local CHP had pulled over AMBULANCES and given the drivers tickets. Most "level-headed" people try not to piss off or otherwise harass the guys who may someday haul them to the ER.

/Not a cop, was an underpaid student lackey.

dfletcher
08-20-2007, 9:28 PM
tag to watch....this is gonna be good

//metalhead getting popcorn:)


Damn you're good - and that's coming from someone who can predict death! :notworthy:

five.five-six
08-20-2007, 9:41 PM
Damn you're good - and that's coming from someone who can predict death! :notworthy:

that was a no brainer... infrienged arms and property rights...a bunch of rich SF gungrabbers who want to play pretend bananza / pondorosa on the weekend but with no guns..a bunch of rookie LEOs who know who butters they're bread.. fireworks will ensue :)

50 Freak
08-20-2007, 10:35 PM
I find CHP to be the most level headed of the LEO community.

Unless they're in New Orleans....hehehhehehe

stealthmode
08-20-2007, 10:52 PM
i think you are being harassed

Kestryll
08-21-2007, 12:34 AM
These threads always devolve in to rude comments, blanket statements, insults and angry generalizations.
This one is done and closed, the next LEO thread that goes down this road will likely end in accounts being closed as well.
You do not have to like the Police nor support them but if you want to discuss it here you will have to learn to do so without the anger, insults and rudeness.

That's it, nothing more.
No one is asking anyone to change their opinions or views.
Everyone is just asked to express those opinions and views in a civil and respectful manner like adults.
If anyone feels that this is beyond their abilities then perhaps they ought avoid these threads in the future.