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View Full Version : In California, is the BATFE or any


John Moon
12-29-2012, 6:11 PM
other federal agency notified (by whomever) when:

1. one is arrested or charged with any gun-related crime NOT a federal crime as gun-related murder or gun-related armed robbery of a liquor store?

2. a citizen uses a gun in self-defense against an intruding burglar at home and the local police or sheriff is notified about this (whether or not an arrest arises out of the claimed act of self-defense)?


In other words, is the FBI or BATFE known to meddle in local law-enforcement affairs in CA, gun-related or otherwise?

huntercf
12-29-2012, 6:25 PM
I think it goes into the FBI database, but I'm not 100% sure.

Hogstir
12-29-2012, 7:05 PM
I would hope that doesn't happen unless you're convicted. you're supposed to be presumed innocent until then

dieselpower
12-29-2012, 7:06 PM
I think what you are asking is if a person is arrested with the FBI or ATF get into the case. No. Not unless they are asked. The local CLEO SHOULD have a system set up to report to the national data base as per newly formed laws, but its not a requirement nor is the system set up for everyone unless the CLEO puts in the effort. This is part of what the NRA was pushing for. Better more accurate nation wide reporting and tracking of gun crimes and gun usage as it pertains to crime.

I can defend my home with a handgun, even fire off a few shots and no one but my CLEO would know. In some places even if I killed a person, the incident may only be known to the CLEO.

dieselpower
12-29-2012, 7:06 PM
I think what you are asking is if a person is arrested with the FBI or ATF get into the case. No. Not unless they are asked. The local CLEO SHOULD have a system set up to report to the national data base as per newly formed laws, but its not a requirement nor is the system set up for everyone unless the CLEO puts in the effort. This is part of what the NRA was pushing for. Better more accurate nation wide reporting and tracking of gun crimes and gun usage as it pertains to crime.

I can defend my home with a handgun, even fire off a few shots and no one but my CLEO would know. In some places even if I killed a person, the incident may only be known to the CLEO.

CaliforniaLiberal
12-29-2012, 8:23 PM
I would hope that doesn't happen unless you're convicted. you're supposed to be presumed innocent until then


My understanding is that if you are arrested and booked your fingerprints go to Washington, to be recorded and preserved for all time.

John Moon
12-30-2012, 12:48 PM
My understanding is that if you are arrested and booked your fingerprints go to Washington, to be recorded and preserved for all time.

If a person is prohibited under FEDERAL law from owning a gun and that person is arrested on suspicion of murder with a gun, will the Fed's find out about that 'prohibited' gun in question, the suspected murder weapon on a non-federal charge. Murder is usually a state-level charge.

I have heard of a person even getting a CCW in Idaho still with a federal gun prohibition (IE. mental history).

In Nevada, I have heard of a sheriff there who asked a person if he could check out the gun this passenger (of a car on a traffic stop: driving at night with no lights/the driver suspected of having a felony warrant out of state) had admitted to carrying in the car when questioned by the officer about carrying weapons. The cop checked out the gun and the passenger's ID and handed the gun back to him and let him go. The passenger checked out was prohibited from owning a gun at the federal level. Apparently, the local lawmen in some various states don't do any background checks at the federal level to see if a suspect might be prohibited at that level. I don't know if local cops California do background checks at the federal level when a firearm is involved in something under suspicion. One might be OK to have a gun even under California law but still be prohibited under federal law.

P5Ret
12-30-2012, 12:59 PM
Every state is tied into the federal system NCIC so if someone is prohibited at a federal level it is also available to the state. Provided it it entered. Any time a person is booked (finger prints, photos) that information is collected and maintained at a local state and federal level. The FBI has the largest finger print data base on earth simply because everyone who has been finger printed for any reason associated with a government applicant, some licenses and permits, arrest, military the FBI has them.

John Moon
12-30-2012, 1:03 PM
Every state is tied into the federal system NCIC so if someone is prohibited at a federal level it is also available to the state. Provided it it entered. Any time a person is booked (finger prints, photos) that information is collected and maintained at a local state and federal level. The FBI has the largest finger print data base on earth simply because everyone who has been finger printed for any reason associated with a government applicant, some licenses and permits, arrest, military the FBI has them.

But do local (state, city, county) cops normally run "firearms eligibility" checks (above state level) or even report anything about this to the fed. govt. when a gun is involved in a suspected non-fed. crime or even lawful home self-defense? And why the hell is it the business of the FBI to collect criminal data for non-federal crimes anyway? I hate carpetbaggers.


In short, if John Smith is prohibited at fed. level from owning a gun because of a 20 year old nuthouse commitment. Will Mr. Smith likely be facing a federal "weapons charge" should he use a gun to shoot (or even scare away with no fired shots) a burglar in his CA home? How would John Smith face the fed. weapons charge otherwise unless somebody told on him to the feds? The fed. govt. usually only KNOWS what is reported to them. This scenario assumes Mr. Smith is NOT prohibited from gun owner under California law. He may or may not face a non-federal criminal charge (IE. murder, manslaughter) regarding the use of the gun in his alleged self-defense. If the feds somehow find out such local gun-related incident they MIGHT themselves run a fed. gun prohibition background check on Mr. Smith.

P5Ret
12-30-2012, 1:24 PM
What are you trying to get around? If you are a prohibited person and your name is run in relation to a crime NCIC is one of the systems that is checked. So it should come up. The FBI maintains the national system where information is stored, because they have the money and resources, do they do anything with it not related to something they are working on, probably not. With interstate travel so common it makes sense to have a centralized system where warrant information is stored, along with probation, parole information missing persons and restraining order information to name a few. How do you think the instant background check works, where do you think that information comes from? Do yourself a favor and google CJIS NCIC, and IAFIS, you'll get a good idea of what is stored.

Heatseeker
12-31-2012, 8:37 AM
I can't answer your question accurately, but I have a question for you.

Are you the same John Moon I knew in Pacifica back in the 80's? Just wondering...

Don29palms
12-31-2012, 8:57 AM
In short, if John Smith is prohibited at fed. level from owning a gun because of a 20 year old nuthouse commitment. Will Mr. Smith likely be facing a federal "weapons charge" should he use a gun to shoot (or even scare away with no fired shots) a burglar in his CA home? How would John Smith face the fed. weapons charge otherwise unless somebody told on him to the feds? The fed. govt. usually only KNOWS what is reported to them. This scenario assumes Mr. Smith is NOT prohibited from gun owner under California law. He may or may not face a non-federal criminal charge (IE. murder, manslaughter) regarding the use of the gun in his alleged self-defense. If the feds somehow find out such local gun-related incident they MIGHT themselves run a fed. gun prohibition background check on Mr. Smith.

If John Smith is prohibited at the fed level from owning a firearm then he is also prohibited at the state level from owning a firearm.

12voltguy
12-31-2012, 9:11 AM
My understanding is that if you are arrested and booked your fingerprints go to Washington, to be recorded and preserved for all time.

I don't think there is a finger print record of all states
just state by state:confused:

Tripper
12-31-2012, 9:13 AM
even with a felony, you still have the right to defend yourself with a firearm, that was a recent court thing, seems maybe in the last year. i could be wrong.

P5Ret
12-31-2012, 11:16 AM
I don't think there is a finger print record of all states
just state by state:confused:

Yeah there is, ISFIS stores millions of prints. It is a voluntary system, well it was until everyone started using LiveScan, that is directly linked to the main state system that is then linked to IAFIS.

"What is included in IAFIS: Not only fingerprints, but corresponding criminal histories; mug shots; scars and tattoo photos; physical characteristics like height, weight, and hair and eye color; and aliases. The system also includes civil fingerprints, mostly of individuals who have served or are serving in the U.S. military or have been or are employed by the federal government. The fingerprints and criminal history information are submitted voluntarily by state, local, and federal law enforcement agencies."