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View Full Version : Hypothetical questioning by Mall Secuirty


ronlglock
12-29-2012, 3:02 PM
This is completely hypothetical and assumes that this event will occur in California.

For purposes of discussion, assume that a private, unarmed mall security guard walks past someone wearing an NRA Patron jacket and from about 4 feet away asks, "Are you a gun nut?" and then comes within conversational range in front of the person and asks, "Are you carrying a gun?"

Is there a requirement for any kind of response, or can the person keep silent and stay where he or she is or start walking away? If the person starts walking away and the guard follows and asks further questions or tries to stop the person, what is an appropriate response?

Thanks!

Lives_In_Fresno
12-29-2012, 3:04 PM
This is completely hypothetical and assumes that this event will occur in California.

For purposes of discussion, assume that a private, unarmed mall security guard walks past someone wearing an NRA Patron jacket and from about 4 feet away asks, "Are you a gun nut?" and then comes within conversational range in front of the person and asks, "Are you carrying a gun?"

Is there a requirement for any kind of response, or can the person keep silent and stay where he or she is or start walking away? If the person starts walking away and the guard follows and asks further questions or tries to stop the person, what is an appropriate response?

Thanks!

It isn't clear to me whether you are merely trying to troll....There is no requirement for you to give mall security the time of day...If you are suspected of shoplifting, they can possibly detain you for further investigation (on behalf of a shopkeeper). But, that isn't the hypothetical you are proposing. Therefore, no response is needed, and you can keep moving.

LCU1670
12-29-2012, 3:07 PM
Ask for his name and supervisors name, he called you a gun nut, make a complaint. otherwise you have no duty to answer him.

vintagearms
12-29-2012, 3:11 PM
This is completely hypothetical and assumes that this event will occur in California.

For purposes of discussion, assume that a private, unarmed mall security guard walks past someone wearing an NRA Patron jacket and from about 4 feet away asks, "Are you a gun nut?" and then comes within conversational range in front of the person and asks, "Are you carrying a gun?"

Is there a requirement for any kind of response, or can the person keep silent and stay where he or she is or start walking away? If the person starts walking away and the guard follows and asks further questions or tries to stop the person, what is an appropriate response?

Thanks!

No requirement for a responce. You can walk away. As with any private business, you can be asked to leave, which you will be required to do, or face tresspass charges. I really don't see that happening however.

ClarenceBoddicker
12-29-2012, 3:13 PM
Use a form of non verbal communications like displaying your middle finger.

If you want to troll for a possible civil suit, engage in some verbal warfare. Use skills of perception to find a weakness that may cause them to lose control & do something illegal. There are some emotional trigger words or phrases that will cause some people to have a hard time controlling themselves. Use that power at your own risk & assume you are being audio & maybe video recorded by goons like that.

Steve G
12-29-2012, 3:19 PM
This is completely hypothetical and assumes that this event will occur in California.

For purposes of discussion, assume that a private, unarmed mall security guard walks past someone wearing an NRA Patron jacket and from about 4 feet away asks, "Are you a gun nut?" and then comes within conversational range in front of the person and asks, "Are you carrying a gun?"

Is there a requirement for any kind of response, or can the person keep silent and stay where he or she is or start walking away? If the person starts walking away and the guard follows and asks further questions or tries to stop the person, what is an appropriate response?

Thanks!

A:Just tell them to **** off.

Please stop with the lame threads op

Mssr. Eleganté
12-29-2012, 3:19 PM
"Es tut mir leid, ich spreche nicht sehr gut Englisch." always works for me.

ronlglock
12-29-2012, 3:28 PM
It isn't clear to me whether you are merely trying to troll....There is no requirement for you to give mall security the time of day...If you are suspected of shoplifting, they can possibly detain you for further investigation (on behalf of a shopkeeper). But, that isn't the hypothetical you are proposing. Therefore, no response is needed, and you can keep moving.

Nope, not trying to troll, just like I didn't open carry even when the law said that I could have. No need to cause angst if I don't need to and trying to figure out if someone wearing an NRA jacket to the mall would cause problems for him or herself.

LibertyDeath
12-29-2012, 3:34 PM
Nope, not trying to troll, just like I didn't open carry even when the law said that I could have. No need to cause angst if I don't need to and trying to figure out if someone wearing an NRA jacket to the mall would cause problems for him or herself.

Really?

No, you would get more people asking you if you were armed wearing a Raiders jersey.

If you did get someone like that just tell them that your gun is in a really good mood today, and you are just taking it for some ice cream to celebrate not randomly killing people.

keenkeen
12-29-2012, 3:38 PM
"Es tut mir leid, ich spreche nicht sehr gut Englisch." always works for me.

I was going to suggest a simple "No English" as well.

And then go back to speaking perfect English to your companions as you walk away. I use this anytime some stranger asks me something stupid and I am to busy to explain to them the error of their ways.

:cool2:

elSquid
12-29-2012, 3:51 PM
For purposes of discussion, assume that a private, unarmed mall security guard walks past someone wearing an NRA Patron jacket and from about 4 feet away asks, "Are you a gun nut?" and then comes within conversational range in front of the person and asks, "Are you carrying a gun?"


Does he have trauma plates duct-taped to his body? I need to know that first before I can formulate a response...

-- Michael

Eldraque
12-29-2012, 3:59 PM
there is no difference between a security guard and any other private citizen. what would happen is you threaten to tell his supervisor of his harassment and he could be fired

vintagearms
12-29-2012, 4:09 PM
Nope, not trying to troll, just like I didn't open carry even when the law said that I could have. No need to cause angst if I don't need to and trying to figure out if someone wearing an NRA jacket to the mall would cause problems for him or herself.

No, if the mall has outlined a regulation that all gang affiliated tats (colors) will not be visibly shown, thats one thing. I don't ever see them asking you to leave over a NRA jacket.

donny douchebag
12-29-2012, 4:17 PM
...Is there a requirement for any kind of response, or can the person keep silent and stay where he or she is or start walking away?...

How sad this question even needs to be asked.

Scuba951
12-29-2012, 4:28 PM
A:Just tell them to **** off.



That was my response to all of the questions that the security guards at The Flamingo in Vegas recently asked me.

:rofl2:

MrOrange
12-29-2012, 7:17 PM
there is no difference between a security guard and any other private citizen. what would happen is you threaten to tell his supervisor of his harassment and he could be fired

Yes, there is. Guards have been vested with some of the rights of the property owner via the contract between the owner and the security company. How much or little of those rights, and how enthusiastically they are enforced, is up to the owner to specify.


To the question at hand, I wouldn't bother with any response other than derisive laughter, and keep walking.

keenkeen
12-29-2012, 7:23 PM
Oh Lenny, Lenny, Lenny...

http://thatfits.me/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/IMG_8789.jpg

Stop hanging out at the mall all the time.

bill_k_lopez
12-29-2012, 8:47 PM
Respect the uniform.

emcon5
12-29-2012, 8:54 PM
Say this in a loud voice:

"Hello Officer Blart, where is your scooter? Are you aware I am wearing spider man underpants? I like baked beans!"

Then turn and walk away.

RT13
12-30-2012, 12:33 AM
:cool2:Security: Sir, are you a gun nut?

:confused:You: Are you a mall ninja?

:cool2:Security: Are you carrying any gun inside your NRA jacket?

:sleeping:You: Are you carrying a modified tactical camo Maglite with built in laser pointer inside your tactical jacket with shoulder pads next to your tactical RadioShack walkie talkie?

:shuriken:Security: Please just answer the question or I will have to call back up and escort you out.

:rofl2:You: Whoah! Please officer...don't call in the cavalry in tactical two wheel scooters wearing tactical Schwinn bike helmets. I have no guns, guns are evil and they can kill. I just wear it to look cool like you. I will go about my way.

Wrangler John
12-30-2012, 1:23 AM
Malls are no place for a man to shop. Chinese electronics and Pakistani clothing are much cheaper online. Used to be, many years ago when the world was sane, a man could drop into the local mall's Tinder Box store to buy a few Royal Jamaica, Cohiba or Montecristo stogies, but now that last attraction has vanished like an octogenarian's testosterone.

I submit that there is no reason to shop at malls, other than to keep an eye on the mate's use of your plastic misery index card, providing marriage has bound your financial interests together. Although, today I suspect it more likely that entangled facial piercings are more likely to be involved in social binding than marriage. Hence, there is no valid reason to shop, or even enter a mall for a manly man, and given the Consumer's Report reviews of Kenmore appliances and the diminishing number of Sears stores, even that excuse is as lame as a Thoroughbred with a bowed tendon.

So, use your propensity and talent for creative fantasy writing to storyboard graphic novels, and stay out of malls, especially wearing NRA jackets. Feather boas however are safe, as are spiked heels and earrings large enough to receive UHF TV. That way the security guards may follow, but to ask entirely different questions. :)

EM2
12-30-2012, 7:52 AM
It isn't clear to me whether you are merely trying to troll....There is no requirement for you to give mall security the time of day...If you are suspected of shoplifting, they can possibly detain you for further investigation (on behalf of a shopkeeper). But, that isn't the hypothetical you are proposing. Therefore, no response is needed, and you can keep moving.



from what I know this is not correct.
They can only detain you if THEY see you shoplift.

LibertyDeath
12-30-2012, 9:41 AM
Respect the uniform.

Which uniform?

383green
12-30-2012, 10:18 AM
"Are you carrying a gun?"


"No, I just have a mall ninja fetish and I'm happy to see you."

Zedrek
12-30-2012, 10:30 AM
I wear my Glock hat all the time and never get asked. That's a weird question though. Like others have said, the most they could do is ask you to leave the property. Security have no special rights and can only place you under citizen's arrest the same as anybody else.

17+1
12-30-2012, 10:31 AM
It's a mall cop...I've known a few and they have been wannabe operator types. They call themselves 'contractors' and talk about picking up a contract in the Middle East to get some 'trigger time'. :facepalm: One guy I met was in the Coast Guard and would brag about training with Blackwater...:o

Not even joking...I'm sure not all are like this, but all the ones I've met are. Don't let them take themselves too seriously.

CSACANNONEER
12-30-2012, 10:39 AM
Mall security is employeed by the mall management and not the individual shops. I'm going to guess that it depends on the mall but, I know that some mall rent a cops DO NOT get involved with what happens inside the individual stores.

I'm not sure why the original question is isolated to Ca. But, since I'm hard of hearing, I probably would not hear the question in the first place. So, I would not answer it.

ewarmour
12-30-2012, 10:42 AM
Mall cop, LOL. Just ignore them.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vbsJlk9AZ_k/UOCYzxqLKgI/AAAAAAAASz4/rxBdaU62El4/s640/mallcop.jpg

Dantedamean
12-30-2012, 10:49 AM
This is completely hypothetical and assumes that this event will occur in California.

For purposes of discussion, assume that a private, unarmed mall security guard walks past someone wearing an NRA Patron jacket and from about 4 feet away asks, "Are you a gun nut?" and then comes within conversational range in front of the person and asks, "Are you carrying a gun?"

Is there a requirement for any kind of response, or can the person keep silent and stay where he or she is or start walking away? If the person starts walking away and the guard follows and asks further questions or tries to stop the person, what is an appropriate response?

Thanks!

A security guard has no more authority than an average citizen does. However in California if he is standing in your way and questioning you about a weapon, if you feel you cannot leave then technically he has arrested you.

It's a very scary proposition for us security guards and one of the California laws I absolutely hate. However you can scare him with that, I have successfully done so lol its rather funny.

Any ways back on topic, the only time a security guard has any more authority than you is when he is on private property and in a retail store. The merchants clause is complex but it allows a security guard to detain a person who they believe has stolen property owned by the store. On private property the guard is acting as an agent for the owner and has the same authority the owner does. He can detain you and question you for a "reasonable amount of time".

When I say private property a mall common area really doesn't meet that definition, I know technically it is private property but it still has public access. What I mean is if you are walking around a closed complex after hours or something. I personally wouldn't risk detaining someone in a open mall unless it falls under the merchants clause.

Zedrek
12-30-2012, 11:35 AM
It's a mall cop...I've known a few and they have been wannabe operator types. They call themselves 'contractors' and talk about picking up a contract in the Middle East to get some 'trigger time'. :facepalm: One guy I met was in the Coast Guard and would brag about training with Blackwater...:o

Not even joking...I'm sure not all are like this, but all the ones I've met are. Don't let them take themselves too seriously.

Haha! That brings up memories of back in the day when I was working security at a Jack in the Box (yes I'd like fries with that) with an armed guard who was very proud of the fact that he was armed. I car load of thugs drove by and yelled "you got your gat" to which he replied "yeah, you got yours". I really didn't want to get shot guarding a fast food joint while making minimum wage. :eek:

Python2
12-30-2012, 11:57 AM
Funny, I have a feeling the OP came or from the Philippines, otherwise he/she would not have asked the question lame as it is. :rofl2: Pretty much all establishment from Malls to hole in the wall in that country have security and they do frisk and sometimes ask question.

Mr. Beretta
12-30-2012, 4:50 PM
You should have told him quietly that you were a mall cop from another jurisdiction working on a case in an undercover capacity and asked him not to blow your cover.

Moonshine
12-30-2012, 5:08 PM
I didn't say this earlier but it does bear mentioning in this thread: some blue states actually use their hatred of the 2nd amendment to abridge the first amendment. If Someone wears an NRA hat and says "I own a gun" that is first amendment free speech that's protected. However when such a statement is used to paint said individual as a dangerous person that's a violation of both that persons 1st AND 2nd amendment rights. I don't even know what country I live in because it sure as heck isn't the one I grew up in. I can't even get on an airplane without having all my possessions and my body inspected.

17+1
12-31-2012, 5:52 AM
Haha! That brings up memories of back in the day when I was working security at a Jack in the Box (yes I'd like fries with that) with an armed guard who was very proud of the fact that he was armed. I car load of thugs drove by and yelled "you got your gat" to which he replied "yeah, you got yours". I really didn't want to get shot guarding a fast food joint while making minimum wage. :eek:

:rofl:

rugershooter
12-31-2012, 10:10 AM
I almost had a guard arrested once. He randomly stopped me in the mall parking lot while I was walking to my car. He asked for my ID and I refused. He then said he was going to call the police and place me under arrest. I told him that I'll call the police first and have him arrested for false arrest, falsely reporting a crime (He said I was required by law to show him my ID)and that I'd report him to the BSIS, and that I'd sue him personally and his employer. He left me alone after that...

ronlglock
12-31-2012, 11:12 AM
Funny, I have a feeling the OP came or from the Philippines, otherwise he/she would not have asked the question lame as it is. :rofl2: Pretty much all establishment from Malls to hole in the wall in that country have security and they do frisk and sometimes ask question.

Nope, born and raised here in the SF Bay Area. I was in a local mall wearing my NRA jacket holding the hand of my 9 y.o. and a security guard walked past me then about 10 minutes later the same guard with another guard walked past me again and the first one tapped the second one. It just seemed really weird to me.

JeremyKX
12-31-2012, 11:17 AM
If you don't answer, expect to be told to leave the mall.

Cheers.

vliberatore
12-31-2012, 11:41 AM
You should have told him quietly that you were a mall cop from another jurisdiction working on a case in an undercover capacity and asked him not to blow your cover.

Best idea in this thread.

bambam8d1
12-31-2012, 11:55 AM
I would comply.... Dont mess with him. He might be Gecko45

stix213
12-31-2012, 12:40 PM
Since you're free to lie to mall security, I'd just say "no" to minimize immediate drama and walk away. Then I'd make a report about his harassment to his boss.

Kempfer
12-31-2012, 1:27 PM
Become that person that doesn't get asked those questions.

Bobula
12-31-2012, 1:40 PM
"Am I being detained?"

P5Ret
12-31-2012, 1:44 PM
Nope, born and raised here in the SF Bay Area. I was in a local mall wearing my NRA jacket holding the hand of my 9 y.o. and a security guard walked past me then about 10 minutes later the same guard with another guard walked past me again and the first one tapped the second one. It just seemed really weird to me.

Your fly was probably down.

JDay
12-31-2012, 2:29 PM
They can only observe and report.

Python2
12-31-2012, 2:43 PM
Nope, born and raised here in the SF Bay Area. I was in a local mall wearing my NRA jacket holding the hand of my 9 y.o. and a security guard walked past me then about 10 minutes later the same guard with another guard walked past me again and the first one tapped the second one. It just seemed really weird to me.

In that case, no harm done then. I would have just smiled at them. They must have like your NRA jacket though:D

dieselpower
12-31-2012, 4:49 PM
The proper answer is, "I need you to call your Supervisor right now." Its illegal for security to stop and question people in public NOT suspected of criminal acts. If there is a mall policy to not allow firearms, then the Security has the right to ask people to leave ONLY. Questioning people is not allowed. They either ask them to leave or they can monitor the suspected person. They can not stop and question.

Their rights are contained to felony acts with reason to assume the person committed that felony, OR non-felonies witnessed by them. They have no powers to investigate outside of those requirements.

A word of caution, never get physical with security. Allow them to get physical and then sue the living crap out of them.

I would never allow security to get you into a room alone. It then becomes your word against theirs and the courts will side with them. They can very easily place an item on the table and say they saw you steal it. You are then arrested for shoplifting.

Security Officers KNOW they can be fired or worse for illegal arrests...so corrupt security NEVER arrest people who they didn't have a reason to arrest. They will then make sure you did something that required them to act.

I was once an LP Manager with over a dozen officers throughout CA. I fired several for false arrest and several for the simple fact I believed they were just arresting people they didn't like and saying they saw them steal. Lucky I didn't have to prove they did what I thought in order to fire them. I just fired them without saying why.... At-will employment.

Bw511
12-31-2012, 4:51 PM
This is completely hypothetical and assumes that this event will occur in California.

For purposes of discussion, assume that a private, unarmed mall security guard walks past someone wearing an NRA Patron jacket and from about 4 feet away asks, "Are you a gun nut?" and then comes within conversational range in front of the person and asks, "Are you carrying a gun?"

Is there a requirement for any kind of response, or can the person keep silent and stay where he or she is or start walking away? If the person starts walking away and the guard follows and asks further questions or tries to stop the person, what is an appropriate response?

Thanks!

Nope, born and raised here in the SF Bay Area. I was in a local mall wearing my NRA jacket holding the hand of my 9 y.o. and a security guard walked past me then about 10 minutes later the same guard with another guard walked past me again and the first one tapped the second one. It just seemed really weird to me.

Really weird way to ask whatever question this was. So, two security guards looked at you, and you invented a scenario where they were accosting you and accusing you of carrying a concealed weapon? This is why I don't smoke pot anymore.

DuknBucks
01-01-2013, 3:43 PM
You should have told him quietly that you were a mall cop from another jurisdiction working on a case in an undercover capacity and asked him not to blow your cover.

Bravo! this is a perfect response to the lamest question i think i have ever read on CG's.....:facepalm:

I cant believe i actually read this far.......five minutes of my life that i wont get back......

themandylion
01-01-2013, 4:13 PM
This is completely hypothetical and assumes that this event will occur in California.

For purposes of discussion, assume that a private, unarmed mall security guard walks past someone wearing an NRA Patron jacket and from about 4 feet away asks, "Are you a gun nut?" and then comes within conversational range in front of the person and asks, "Are you carrying a gun?"

Is there a requirement for any kind of response, or can the person keep silent and stay where he or she is or start walking away? If the person starts walking away and the guard follows and asks further questions or tries to stop the person, what is an appropriate response?

Thanks!

I'd walk away. If he follows, I'd warn the guard to stop harassing me, and indicate that I am leaving the premises. If he commits battery on me (trying to stop me, or even touching me), I will do what is necessary. I have a continuum of force available to me, so, no, I'm not suggesting pulling a pistol on him.

Your only "legal" obligation is to leave the premises if asked, and if you are harassed in such manner, being proactive (i.e., leaving before asked) is wise. You cannot be detained without them having legitimate cause to believe you have committed a public offense, for example, shoplifting. Of course, rent-a-cops often have an unleaded mindset of the sworn cops' "I am god" delusion, and will go way over their "legal" position.

themandylion
01-01-2013, 4:34 PM
Respect the uniform.

Ja wohl! Heil Obama!

chad68
01-02-2013, 9:29 AM
Bravo! this is a perfect response to the lamest question i think i have ever read on CG's.....:facepalm:

I cant believe i actually read this far.......five minutes of my life that i wont get back......

5 minutes is nothing. Better than wasting more time watching an episode of American Idol.