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View Full Version : Need recommendation for a Leupold for my 308 Q


CNIC
08-18-2007, 3:14 PM
I just purchased a new M1 National Match. I want to be able to shot at the limit of the rifle and/or the 308 ammo. My next rifle with be a Remington 700 in 308.

I don't mind spending a little extra for quality & performance. The reason, I was leaning towards Leupold is because I had heard they came out with a new "bullet drop" feature and they have a solid reputation. This feature is very helpful in switching between targets at different distances.

Here are the features that are important to me.
1) Shooting from 100 yards to 800 yards (maybe up to 1,000 yards)
2) Quality and dependability
3) Bullet drop dial.

Please keep in mind that although I am very experienced in firearms, I am a newbee when it comes to scopes.... In the past, I was just shooting at 100 to 200 yards with iron sights....

Thanks for your help!

Pthfndr
08-18-2007, 7:12 PM
The BDC will only be good for ONE bullet, with ONE muzzle velocity.

Example: it might be right on if you shoot a 175gr SMK @ 2650 fps. But if you shoot that same bullet fast or slower, it will be off.

rksimple
08-18-2007, 7:39 PM
The BDC will only be good for ONE bullet, with ONE muzzle velocity.

Example: it might be right on if you shoot a 175gr SMK @ 2650 fps. But if you shoot that same bullet fast or slower, it will be off.

+1. You're a little limited using a BDC. And if you change conditions, like elevation, temperature, and pressure, you'll be off as well. If your going to going to shell out the cash for a nice scope, learn how to use it right. Theres a free clinic coming up. Check here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=65972

PistolPete75
08-19-2007, 12:29 AM
+ 2 get a scope with a mildot or modified mildot recticle.

if you want leupold go with a mark4 lr/t 6.5-20x50mm with the tmr recticle. other's will tell you to go with us optics or ior.

Prc329
08-19-2007, 12:52 AM
What's your budget?

rksimple
08-19-2007, 9:18 AM
+ 2 get a scope with a mildot or modified mildot recticle.

if you want leupold go with a mark4 lr/t 6.5-20x50mm with the tmr recticle. other's will tell you to go with us optics or ior.

If you like Leupold, this is a nice scope. I've looked through Pete's and its plenty clear. If you want to save a little cash, the 4.5-14x40 is a good choice as well. On hot days, the mirage will eat you up at anything more than about 15 power so some magnification is wasted when conditions are such. Good price on it here:
http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-mark-4-4-5-14x40mm-pr-long-range-rifle-scope.html

CNIC
08-19-2007, 10:28 AM
What's your budget?

I want to buy the right scope that I can keep for years to come. I am ok with spending up to $1,500 if need be.... Thanks for all the great suggestions!!!!!!!!

rksimple
08-19-2007, 10:48 AM
I want to buy the right scope that I can keep for years to come. I am ok with spending up to $1,500 if need be.... Thanks for all the great suggestions!!!!!!!!

At $1500, you're into US Optics territory. At the very least, Nightforce. Take a look at the US Optics sn3: http://www.usoptics.com/

A nightforce NXS would be great as well. http://www.nightforceoptics.com/

Both of these manufacturers have a much better reputation than Leupold. Do a google search on first focal plane vs. second focal plane scopes and see if thats a big deal to you. FFP is much easier in a dynamic environment that you may envision. The Nightforce is SFP while the USO is FFP, so that may influence your decision. Check this article for a quick explanation of FFP vs SFP: http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-optics/

Prc329
08-19-2007, 2:45 PM
Also look at IOR. Not as expensive as US but just below the Nightforce in price range. They also released some first focal plane glass. I personally have a IOR 4x14x50 and I love the thing to death. It should be on the rifle for many years.

mprahm
08-19-2007, 7:14 PM
The Remi needs a US Optics SN3 with MOA or MIL reticle, only buy it once and never look back!

aplinker
08-19-2007, 9:23 PM
Honestly, I don't think you need anything above 14X, especially for the M1A. With that I might even lean toward 10X, unless you're really wanting to shoot it out past 800yds (why? it's only ~2MOA gun -- you'll have a hard time hitting anything past 600 yds).

For the bolt gun, you'd want something up to about 14X. Mirage becomes ridiculous above that, though it's nice if you want to read it (to estimate windspeed) to have a higher mag.

I like my Leupolds. They make a FFP version if that's what you need and want.

Most of the people here are recommending scopes for tactical type shooting. You'll need to do some reading and practice how to use your turrets for them. You can also use the reticle for hold-over.

Any of the recommended scopes (Leupolds, Nightforce, IOR, US Optics) are of extremely high quality. I'd also throw Schmidt & Bender in there, too. Of those, the price points are best with IOR or Leupold. I don't think you'd be going wrong with any of them, but US Optics is pretty much the ultimate choice if cost isn't an issue. If you live in SoCal you can visit their showroom, too. They do everything special order, so it would take some time -- this might not be the best if you want it now.

I've noticed a lot of the good scopes are a bit scarce. Mark 4's, IORs, Nightforce... dunno why...

So let me give you my personal choices -- if you were ONLY doing the scope for the M1A, I think the best choice would be the US Optics SN3 1.8-10X. CQB and long-range in one scope -- but it would run about $1500-1800 (depending on options).

For the longer range, the SN3 in 3.2-17X is a good choice (same cost).

Probably 2nd down from there is the 4-14x50 IOR Valdada, which is a bargain -- illuminated at ~$1000.

CNIC
08-20-2007, 7:23 PM
Thank you guys... I really appreciate your input and guidance!!! I think I am going to go with a Leupold Mark 4 of some kind. I have not made up my mind yet on the power. From what I have read, Leupold seems to have the right balance of price & quality.

aplinker
08-20-2007, 8:32 PM
Thank you guys... I really appreciate your input and guidance!!! I think I am going to go with a Leupold Mark 4 of some kind. I have not made up my mind yet on the power. From what I have read, Leupold seems to have the right balance of price & quality.

Be sure to check out the comparable IOR Valdadas and see how the price point lines up. In most scopes they're a better choice.

rksimple
08-20-2007, 8:53 PM
Be sure to check out the comparable IOR Valdadas and see how the price point lines up. In most scopes they're a better choice.

+1! If kick down just a little more cash, you get a much better scope. The USO SN3 1.8-10 is case in point. Most IORs are the same way.

FWIW, here are some pics of the new IOR 3-18x42. I think all the new ones come with the bigger knobs. 10 mils per rev on the elevation knob. Thats less than one turn from 100-1000 yards for my 308 load!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/rksimple/IMG_0022-1.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/rksimple/IMG_0027-1.jpg

schmud0811
08-21-2007, 5:18 PM
Also look at the older vx3 long range tactical. It is the exact scope as the new mark 4 variables, minus the FFP. In my opnion FFP is useless on lower power scopes. Less than 10 power, because if you need to range something you have the time to reach up and turn the power knob. Before people jump about mil holdevers and holding for movers and wind with mildots at say 6 power, more than likely the target is close enough that you will not need a wind call (human sized target). If it was my m1a i would go with a leupold mark 4 or vx3lrt in a 3.5-10 mildot reticle with m3 knobs. Or splurge and buy an m2. m3 knobs have 1 moa adjustments for elevation and 1/2 for wind which is plenty fine enough adjustments for a dmr type rifle. Also with the M3 turrents you can order different knobs through leupolds customer service, thier is companys who make custom knobs to replicate your exact drops.

PistolPete75
08-21-2007, 6:12 PM
+1! If kick down just a little more cash, you get a much better scope. The USO SN3 1.8-10 is case in point. Most IORs are the same way.

FWIW, here are some pics of the new IOR 3-18x42. I think all the new ones come with the bigger knobs. 10 mils per rev on the elevation knob. Thats less than one turn from 100-1000 yards for my 308 load!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/rksimple/IMG_0022-1.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/rksimple/IMG_0027-1.jpg

nice choice!

how much was this fine piece?

rksimple
08-21-2007, 6:23 PM
nice choice!

how much was this fine piece?


$1295 shipped with 35mm rings. The glass is INCREDIBLE! Check the little write up I did, just really listing features: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=66746

schmud0811
08-21-2007, 6:27 PM
Also look at the older vx3 long range tactical. It is the exact scope as the new mark 4 variables, minus the FFP. In my opinion FFP is useless on lower power scopes less than 10 power, because if you need to range something (its far away)you have the time to reach up and turn the power knob. Before people jump about mil holdevers and holding for movers and wind with mildots at say 6 power, more than likely the target is close enough that you will not need a wind call (human sized target). If it was my m1a (2moaish gun) i would go with a leupold mark 4 or vx3 lrt in a 3.5-10 mildot reticle with m3 knobs. Or splurge and buy an m2. m3 knobs have 1 moa adjustments for elevation and 1/2 for wind which is plenty fine enough adjustments for a dmr type rifle. m2 has 1/2 moa for ele and for wind. Also with the M3 turrents you can order different knobs through leupolds customer service, thier is companys who make custom knobs to replicate your exact drops. Also you can just take a piece of tape cover up the bdc and rewrite your real BDC on the tape and place it on the knob.
For your bolt gun in .308 i would get m1 knobs. get either the 3.5-10 mildot leupold or get the 4.5-14 leupold. Yes US optics are better ,but leupold is good to go, lifetime warrenty and take the 1000 dollars you will save and buy quality ammo or buy reloading equitment, refine current reloading equipment or buy a laser rangefinder and a kestrel 4000.
I currently have one leupold m1 3.5-10 and one us optics st10 i would like to get a leupold 4.5 by 14 mildot illuminated to replace the st10 though. I am conntent with 10 power for .308 some say you need more like the 6.5-20 or higher but the mirage is going to get you more than likely plus the higher the power the pickier the eye relief.

rksimple
08-21-2007, 6:45 PM
Before people jump about mil holdevers and holding for movers and wind with mildots at say 6 power, more than likely the target is close enough that you will not need a wind call (human sized target). .

No wind call, but you still need to holdoff for lead on movers...

Sig226
08-21-2007, 7:51 PM
Thank you guys... I really appreciate your input and guidance!!! I think I am going to go with a Leupold Mark 4 of some kind. I have not made up my mind yet on the power. From what I have read, Leupold seems to have the right balance of price & quality.

Mark 4 3.5-10x40mm LR/T M3 Illum. Reticle

Has me on 6" steel disks @ 700 w/ a new AP4/POF .308 from CWS ALL day..

THAT is all I'm going to say.... :cool2:

schmud0811
08-22-2007, 7:23 AM
No wind call, but you still need to holdoff for lead on movers...
In the reality of things i highly doubt he is going to be engaiging "movers" in a real life senario were he is not going to be able to get in a comfortable prone position and then shoot. and if the mover is so close that 10 power is to much power to see the mover, the mover is to close to even need to hold to far off of the leading edge of the target.
Even in the very few competitions that have moving targets you have enough set up time to reach up and turn a knob.
Lets try not to influence the guy into spending un needed money for now. Precision rifle is an expensive game, glass is something you do not skimp on but he doesn't need the most expensive in the world optic for an m1a.

schmud0811
08-22-2007, 7:29 AM
http://snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/index.php?showtopic=20960 not mine but cut and paste here is a real good deal on a scope that would suit your m1a

rksimple
08-22-2007, 8:11 AM
Even in the very few competitions that have moving targets you have enough set up time to reach up and turn a knob.


About every other PR match in Vegas has a mover. And its not a stage where its just the mover, it involves static targets as well at different distances. If you spend time fiddling with a knob, you lose. But you're right, for most intents and purposes, FFP on a 2-10x optic is not needed.

For the OP, A SFP loopy may be just fine. Probably more than enough. But given the amount of money he is willing to spend, there are many better options. It may be wasted money as well, and perhaps that money would be better spent on ammo and training, but all the features of a scope and their purposes need to be discussed.

Mute
08-22-2007, 9:17 AM
Determine your budget, determine your needs and do the research. Just make sure you're honest with yourself about what you need vs. what you want. If you have an open budget, I say have at it and buy what you like. However, if you have a limited budget (as most people do), than you need to make an objective evaluation as to what you want to do with your rifle.

I agree with many of the others that an FFP reticle on anything under 10x is probably not needed, but it doesn't hurt either. However, if you are going to mainly use your new rifle on a bench shooting at known distance targets, you may be better served with a SFP reticle scope. In the price range you listed, my first choice on an SFP scope would be a Nightforce.