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alexroyce
08-17-2007, 6:01 PM
Someone suggested I post this here, so I figured I would and see what people have to say. Originally this was posted on Craigslist to help me find a lawyer. This happend about a week or so ago:

A few days ago I got a phonecall at work from a man telling me he was from the fire department and he needed to go inside my apartment to check the smoke alarms. I was at work so I told them I wasnt at home, but that my brother will answer the door for him if he knocks. I hung up and called my brother and told him to open the door.

My brother tells me that when he opened the door they still claimed to be from the fire department (they even brought props) and they proceeded to step inside and search around while another guy started asking random questions to my brother to distract him. They then later told my brother that they were from the LAPD, and they asked him to sign a paper saying they could come into the apartment to search around (even though they already had).

Soon, they call me back at work and tell me they are from the LAPD and are not actually from the fire department. I asked what was wrong and they said they had a report that there were firearms inside the apartment from the manager who saw my collection of airsoft rifles a few days before and had called the police.

I immediately rushed home to figure out what was going on, and when I got there I found my apartment searched, with people in every room. I didnt break any laws and they left soon after.

Now I believe I have a case because:

1) The police lied over the phone in order to gain entry into the apartment
2) They didnt have a warrent
3) They searched the apartment without permission
4) The tenant didnt sign the search acceptance papers
5) I didnt break any laws

Can you help? I dont want the LAPD to get away with things like this as itll only continue to happen.

Note: When the police started searching around my brother took a camera and recorded them. You can hear them talking to each other and so on, but what seems the most important is that about half way through the video I finally arrive, and they say "Oh hi, you must be the tenant". Seems like they shouldent even have been in there if the owner of the apartment wasnt around.

Gotta love the police.

proraptor
08-17-2007, 6:05 PM
Wow!

M. Sage
08-17-2007, 6:08 PM
Your brother can't give authorization to search your home... unless he lives there, too, then they could, with his permission, search common areas and his room. Your personal space would be off-limits.

I would have a VERY stern talk with the manager, and consider moving. Firearms in a home isn't probable cause for a search, since firearms are legal. :rolleyes: Also, consider having a chat with LAPD IA. Oh, and a newspaper might find this stuff interesting. :43:

alexroyce
08-17-2007, 6:12 PM
Well my brother doesnt "live" here technically. He moved in just 2 weeks ago and is considered just visiting still. Id move but I dont have the money, so im kind of stuck. The manager seems to be scared as lately shes super nice etc.

Feel free to have newspapers contact me as I think this whole thing was completely illegal yet I dont know what to do.

And fyi the airsoft guns I had resemble real guns that are illegal in CA, so theres that.

LAK Supply
08-17-2007, 6:14 PM
You mean to tell us that the esteemed LAPD would do something like that?! :rolleyes:

You should contact an attorney and sue the pi$$ out of the department if this story, in it's presented form, is accurate. No LE agency should ever get away with something like this.

alexroyce
08-17-2007, 6:14 PM
Id do that but I have no idea where to start. Also remember that I really dont have much money atm. If anyone knows any lawyers or anyone who could help me do something to prevent this from happening to other people, have them contact me.

Fjold
08-17-2007, 6:16 PM
Well my brother doesnt "live" here technically. He moved in just 2 weeks ago and is considered just visiting still. Id move but I dont have the money, so im kind of stuck. The manager seems to be scared as lately shes super nice etc.

Feel free to have newspapers contact me as I think this whole thing was completely illegal yet I dont know what to do.

And fyi the airsoft guns I had resemble real guns that are illegal in CA, so theres that.






Call Trutanich - Michel LLP,

http://www.tmllp.com/

I'm sure that they'd like to talk to you.

It sure would be nice to buy a home there in LA that the LAPD pays for.

locktime
08-17-2007, 6:17 PM
Owning firearms is legal. Seeing guns inside someone's apartment might be insight into their sporting preferences, but it's no reason to have the police show up.

This effects all of us. How can we get to the bottom of this?

Is there a known reason you shouldn't have firearms? Felon, etc.? Other extenuating circumstances?

M. Sage
08-17-2007, 6:18 PM
Ahh, you should search around here for what's actually legal in CA. You can have an AR or AK, no problem. There are ways to have a legal-in-California AR or AK with a pistol grip and everything. There's no visible difference between an off-list AR-15 with a fixed 10/30 (ten-round magazine that looks like a thirty-round mag), pistol grip, etc. and an M16 or M4 (depending on how the rifle was built.)

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=26726

Also, there are registered assault-weapons, those are legal. Heck, I've even met a person who has class-3 (machine guns) in Cali... legally.

Just because it looks evil doesn't make it illegal (though anti-gunners try). Your manager and especially the police should realize that.

Remember these words: "I do not consent to any search of my home/vehicle/person." If they're coming in, they're coming in. But get it on the record that you don't consent to them being there.

alexroyce
08-17-2007, 6:19 PM
I havent ever been convicted of a crime or anything like that. The manager came in to inspect something one day, saw the airsoft guns just lying around, didnt say anything and then called the cops.

I do know my rights to avoid a search, as they had no warrent nor permission, but they came in anyways so I was kinda screwed there hahah

LAK Supply
08-17-2007, 6:23 PM
Take a look at the top of the page- Trutanich * Michel LLP. You can start by contacting them; they are experienced in firearms-related matters.

You may also get in touch with Bweise and Hoffmang..... they are generally up on these types of matters. Ed may be able to help you as well.....

I'm sure all of these individuals will see your posts within a day or so....

metalhead357
08-17-2007, 6:27 PM
tag to watch the hooopla.

Might wanna contact Bwiese to be put in touch with the legals.......but they are costly..............

Liberty1
08-17-2007, 6:38 PM
Sadly I don't see much of a case unless you have $$$$ as they will claim consent to enter. Do file a complaint though. :(

alexroyce
08-17-2007, 6:46 PM
Figured as much. Hooray for losing freedoms because you cant afford to goto court!

Electric Factory
08-17-2007, 6:51 PM
Sadly I don't see much of a case unless you have $$$$ as they will claim consent to enter. :(

And the truly sucky thing is, that's where the rubber really meets the road. Based solely on your rendition of the events, clearly your rights were violated. Clearly the policed lied. Clearly, firearms are LEGAL.
And how much recourse do you have against the LAPD for this illegal activity ? Exactly as much as you can afford to buy. :eek:
How does that make you feel ?:mad:

eta34
08-17-2007, 6:54 PM
The only thing we clearly have is one side of the story. IF you are telling the truth, contact an attorney asap.

alexroyce
08-17-2007, 7:03 PM
well i have a camera recording me actually entering the apartment and the police saying "Oh Hi! You must be the tenent!" as I walk into the spare room in my apartment.. That seems like enough to have a case right off of that.

Electric Factory
08-17-2007, 7:04 PM
The only thing we clearly have is one side of the story.

Um... I did stipilate in my post,

" Based solely on your rendition of the events.... " :rolleyes:

five.five-six
08-17-2007, 7:11 PM
the LAPD, the FBI, and the CIA are all trying to prove that they are the best apprehending criminals. the President desides to give them a test. he releases a rabbit into a forest and each of them has to catch it.

the CIA goes in, they place animal informats throughout the forset. they question all plant and mineral witnesses. after three months of extensive investgations they conclude that rabbit do not exist.

the FBI goes in. after two weeks with no leads they burn the forest, killing everying in it, including the rabbit and they make no apologies. the rabbit had it coming.

the LAPD goes in, they come out two hours later with a badly beaten bear. the bear is yelling,' okay, okay, i am a rabbit, i am a rabbit.'

Liberty1
08-17-2007, 7:34 PM
the LAPD, the FBI, and the CIA are all trying to prove that they are the best apprehending criminals. the President desides to give them a test. he releases a rabbit into a forest and each of them has to catch it.

the CIA goes in, they place animal informats throughout the forset. they question all plant and mineral witnesses. after three months of extensive investgations they conclude that rabbit do not exist.

the FBI goes in. after two weeks with no leads they burn the forest, killing everying in it, including the rabbit and they make no apologies. the rabbit had it coming.

the LAPD goes in, they come out two hours later with a badly beaten bear. the bear is yelling,' okay, okay, i am a rabbit, i am a rabbit.'

LOL. That's going up in briefing tomorrow! To the OP: the video is your only hope. Contact a lawyer. Sometimes they settle these things quick for $5000 - 15,000 with no admission of guilt. I know of a case where an arrestee couldn't get a lawyer to take his case and went to small claims and won $5,000.

Subpoena all their records and have all the officers appear in small claims. You can question them. If any of them contradict each other or the judge doesn't buy their excuses, you might win and have fun doing so. Plus the city will have to pay for all their overtime. If you cause enough of a headache the city may just pay your claim.

locktime
08-17-2007, 7:40 PM
The law firm of Trutanich-Michel, mentioned above, specializes in firearms rights cases.

At the least, they will be quite interested to hear about your experience with your landlord and the LAPD. They are members at Calguns, but the best way to contact them is to send an email to Chuck Michel at CMichel@tmllp.com.

Send your story and link to this thread. You won't get charged just to make them aware what happened.

Wulf
08-17-2007, 7:40 PM
I like Liberty's suggestion. Since you dont have in real damages here, this would be an excellent opportunity to DIY with no downside.

metalhead357
08-17-2007, 7:43 PM
Other avenue... Did the apt manager give 24/48 notice prior to entering your apartment? If not then the lease is broken and ya' could probably sue his sucky-rear too; leave him NEVER wanting into a tenants apt. again.....

at least put the cost of the lawyer on him....

Liberty1
08-17-2007, 7:58 PM
Oh, and get some real guns!

Satex
08-17-2007, 8:08 PM
You should call the ACLU to ask for them to represent you! See if they really care about civil rights, or if they only care about the rights of certain people.

69Mach1
08-17-2007, 8:17 PM
You should call the ACLU to ask for them to represent you! See if they really care about civil rights, or if they only care about the rights of certain people.

+1 on that. It has more to do with warrantless searches than firearms anyway. Maybe you'll get lucky.
http://www.aclu-sc.org/Legal/Intake/

At the very least, start a paper trail, document everything, and involve Trutanich • Michel, LLP.

thedrickel
08-17-2007, 10:21 PM
Figured as much. Hooray for losing freedoms because you cant afford to goto court!

Haha, where have you been? The freedom tax is the American way.

AJAX22
08-17-2007, 11:25 PM
Tennants have to be informed of non emergency appartment access a minimum of 24 hours in advance, usually by posted written notification.

Jicko
08-18-2007, 3:29 AM
Someone suggested I post this here, so I figured I would and see what people have to say. Originally this was posted on Craigslist to help me find a lawyer. This happend about a week or so ago:

Gotta love the police.

PUT the video up on YouTube!!!

Jicko
08-18-2007, 3:30 AM
Other avenue... Did the apt manager give 24/48 notice prior to entering your apartment? If not then the lease is broken and ya' could probably sue his sucky-rear too; leave him NEVER wanting into a tenants apt. again.....

at least put the cost of the lawyer on him....

And you can do this at a minimal cost.... just work.... SMALL CLAIM COURT! You can claim damage up to $7.5k, i think.

JawBone
08-18-2007, 6:32 AM
Did you ask for ID? Badge numbers? Are you sure they were even really LAPD? Or did you just let some "people" with props into your place to search and look around?

Someone did think you had guns and wanted them - only my guess is that it wasn't the police.

Next time CALL the LAFD/LAPD to confirm they are who they say they are.

duenor
08-18-2007, 7:26 AM
I just wanted to point out that this MIGHT be a scam to get calgunners to donate money to his "lawyer fees".

Not saying that it is - it might. If it is for real I will donate to help just as I donated to BWO.

kev

SnWnMe
08-18-2007, 7:34 AM
The first dumb thing that happened was you believed some guy telling you a story OVER THE PHONE and gave them consent to enter your apartment.

Wulf
08-18-2007, 7:42 AM
PUT the video up on YouTube!!!

Super Idea!

50 Freak
08-18-2007, 7:55 AM
Read the story again, he never gave them Consent to enter. His brother was at his house and refused to sign a letter granting permission.

50 Freak
08-18-2007, 8:00 AM
Oh and you manager is very nice to you right now because she's afraid you'll sue her *** off. Start mentioning to her that you are contacting a lawyer and have her squirm.

MedSpec65
08-18-2007, 9:18 AM
I think you could wind up owning your apartment house if you get a lawyer. A couple of phone calls might change your life.

RANGER295
08-18-2007, 10:44 AM
It has been a long time since a link to this video has been posted and I think this is a good place for it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA It gives you valuable information about your rights regarding searches and probable cause. I think that someone who is knowledgeable should write a sticky about these rights and include this video.

Anyway on topic… I would love to see you go after them, but if you do not want to go through the hassle I would understand that as well. I certainly think you have a pretty good case.

alexroyce
08-18-2007, 11:02 AM
LOL. That's going up in briefing tomorrow! To the OP: the video is your only hope. Contact a lawyer. Sometimes they settle these things quick for $5000 - 15,000 with no admission of guilt. I know of a case where an arrestee couldn't get a lawyer to take his case and went to small claims and won $5,000.

Subpoena all their records and have all the officers appear in small claims. You can question them. If any of them contradict each other or the judge doesn't buy their excuses, you might win and have fun doing so. Plus the city will have to pay for all their overtime. If you cause enough of a headache the city may just pay your claim.

But the problem there is that I dont have that kind of time. I work 10am-7pm, and then I come home and work some more since I have a bit of an odd job, not to mention getting down to the courthouse would be a pain in the *** probably.

Did you ask for ID? Badge numbers? Are you sure they were even really LAPD? Or did you just let some "people" with props into your place to search and look around?

Someone did think you had guns and wanted them - only my guess is that it wasn't the police.

Next time CALL the LAFD/LAPD to confirm they are who they say they are.

They were LAPD. I was shown badges, cards and one officer gave me his card so I could call him. I told my brother to let them in since he can take care of himself.

Ill email the story to the lawyer whos email was provided above as maybe he'll be able to help me find some cheap way of settling this. If you guys want to donate money go ahead, but not until I actually have a solid idea of what to do and who to contact.

And ill compress the video and put it on youtube shortly as its over 700mb

CaliTheKid
08-18-2007, 11:03 AM
"You kids been token the reefer?"

Bwwaaahhhh

Everyone should know their rights but that video is hilarious.

CaliTheKid
08-18-2007, 11:25 AM
So basically the video contains everything AFTER the fire department sequence and is basically of LAPD cops searching your apartment?

Is their any reference to the fire department ruse on the video or the reason they are there int he first place?

If this actually happened it would set a world record for worlds stupidest cops...

AND

My BS meter is WAY off the charts. There is no way any department is going to go through the ruse of pretending to be firemen with props to try and gain entrance to an apartment when all this would have to be articulated in a report to be submitted to a DA for prosecution which would be laughable. This would have to be kicked up the detectives bureau, a sergeant would have to sign off on it and enough PC would have to be articulated to go in-- WHICH if they had they could just get a search warrant and a good amount of man power from the station would be deployed as this would be considered high risk due to the nature of the items being looked for.

Please prove me wrong with some video and a case number.

**edited to add I was under the impressoin they were dressed like firemen in uniforms. If they just used a smoke detector to knock on the door to lower anxiety inside I could see that. It seems that they had PC to be there via the landlords reporting AW's and your brother lead them to the guns rather than them tossing the apartment to find them. Is that correct?

Rob P.
08-18-2007, 11:29 AM
The problem is that you DID give consent. You told the "fire dept" guys on the phone that they should knock and that you'll tell your brother to let them in. Then you called your brother and said to let them in.

That's consent. Since you gave permission for them to enter AND you informed your "agent" to do so, you have no case. Sorry.

alexroyce
08-18-2007, 11:35 AM
Heres the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y77RHmTXdjo

Audio kind of sucks

alexroyce
08-18-2007, 11:46 AM
The problem is that you DID give consent. You told the "fire dept" guys on the phone that they should knock and that you'll tell your brother to let them in. Then you called your brother and said to let them in.

That's consent. Since you gave permission for them to enter AND you informed your "agent" to do so, you have no case. Sorry.

So the police can lie to you in order to get into your apartment? I didnt think thats lawful... I thought that the police have to tell you that they are the police. If they said they were the cops I would have come over and asked what was up.

alexroyce
08-18-2007, 11:55 AM
So basically the video contains everything AFTER the fire department sequence and is basically of LAPD cops searching your apartment?

Is their any reference to the fire department ruse on the video or the reason they are there int he first place?

If this actually happened it would set a world record for worlds stupidest cops...

AND

My BS meter is WAY off the charts. There is no way any department is going to go through the ruse of pretending to be firemen with props to try and gain entrance to an apartment when all this would have to be articulated in a report to be submitted to a DA for prosecution which would be laughable. This would have to be kicked up the detectives bureau, a sergeant would have to sign off on it and enough PC would have to be articulated to go in-- WHICH if they had they could just get a search warrant and a good amount of man power from the station would be deployed as this would be considered high risk due to the nature of the items being looked for.

Please prove me wrong with some video and a case number.

When the "fire dept" called me back at work to tell me they were the cops, they asked me if I had any other guns in the house, and me thinking they were still looking for smoke detectors, the conversation turned into this:

Me: "Yeah, theres one in the hallway"
Them: "Where in the hallway?"
Me: "On the ceiling...?"
Them: "Is it real?"
Me: "I have no idea, I never bothered to check..."
Them: "So you have a firearm in the roof of the hallway?"
Me: "Uh.. I have a smoke detector in the hallway"
Them: "Oh you still think were looking for smoke detectors! Were actually the LAPD and we received a call about firearms in the apartment"

My brother says that one of the cops actually ripped a smoke alarm off of a wall to use as a prop hahahah. He was carrying a smoke alarm and a hardhat when at the door while another guy had a stepladder or something.

DELTA
08-18-2007, 12:09 PM
Watch the You Tube, after minute 5:20 you hear the officer telling the other officer who is taking pictures:

"If you want to, stress the key features that look the most realistic to you, because Media Relations (LAPD's) was doing a story on this. We're trying to change the legislation to make every replica firearm have an identifying color, or something like that"

So not only is this a possible illegal search & seizure, not to mention how people in the past few decades have been encouraged to snitch on their fellow citizens (hello apartment manager), now all this will be used as a PR, paraded in front of the government mounthpieces (Media), and used to pass legislation (so the police are a one stop shop now, they "pass" the laws and they enforce them).


"The problem is that when you talk about the war on this and the war on that, and police officers see themselves as soldiers, then the civilian becomes the enemy." Dr. Peter Kraska

pnkssbtz
08-18-2007, 12:09 PM
Am I the only one wanting to see the face of the female cop in the vid? :p


Seriously, given what I have experienced in the past, what happened to BWO and what happened to ProRaptor, it is definitely within the realm of possibility that the police lied to gain entry. I've been lied to several times to try and gain consent to search my car. And police came by my apartment once asking to come inside to "see how I was doing". (Lots of people there and someone in the apartment complex was dealing drugs so they wanted to search the apartments full of college kids).


They can justify it as they thought there where guys with guns inside and they didn't want to alarm them.

I'd file a complaint and sue in small claims unless you could get an attorney, or contact the ACLU.

However it looks like the OP consented even after he knew they were police. Personally, I wouldn't even let the fire department into my house unless it was burning down. I can check my own smoke detectors.


Look at BWO, remember what happened to him? Remember how they nabbed him on a thursday night so they could hold him till monday with even formally charging him and setting bail? Is that legal to do? And you guys honestly doubt the means by which the police will achieve an end? And all of it was over a myspace page and a hysterical libtards.

Remember ProRaptor? Entering at gun point and forcing entry to a christmas party because someone saw something in a back room through a window? I mean, they were dressed up in cheasy christmas sweaters for crying out loud. What the heck were they going to do?



The video seemed like a smart thing to do but regardless unless $$$ are ponied up its not going to go anywhere.



Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

SC_00_05
08-18-2007, 12:26 PM
I personally wouldn't put anything past cops. I've witnessed them flat out lie in writing on a few occasions.

I only wish you'd have mentioned something on the video (I'm assuming that's you in the video) about "so why'd you come in impersonating firemen and tell me you're firemen on the phone" to get their reply on tape.

alexroyce
08-18-2007, 12:31 PM
I wish I did that, too, but I didnt know about the tape until they left

But alas, one more persons rights are violated and the world keeps on spinnin'. Ive got more important things to look forward to now anyways and while I might have a chance at gaining some money, the risk of wasted time and money on my end isnt worth it. I guess this thread turned into one of those "Hey guess what? The police break their own laws and you cant do anything about it!" threads now.

Rob P.
08-18-2007, 12:35 PM
So the police can lie to you in order to get into your apartment? I didnt think thats lawful... I thought that the police have to tell you that they are the police. If they said they were the cops I would have come over and asked what was up.

They can lie in order to further their investigation. They can conceal who they are in order to protect the investigation and witnesses.

Anyone who has watched TV knows that undercover cops don't tell the bad guys that they're cops until they bust them. It's the same in real life.

If they damaged the apt while they were looting -err... "investigating" then they can be held liable for the immediate damages but otherwise you're outta luck.

Lesson here: NEVER let anyone past the front door unless you know them personally. Government employees (FD, PD, mailman, etc) should produce a signed warrant to get beyond pushing the doorbell.

alexroyce
08-18-2007, 12:37 PM
Yeah, ill remember that. I dont think ill ever let anyone I dont know into my apartment ever again.

I guess ill just file a complaint and leave it at that.

alexroyce
08-18-2007, 12:40 PM
Heres a picture of one of the cops compairing his real gun to my fake ones if anyone is wondering what my airsoft guns look like. Dont really know why my brother took a pic of this:

http://xs318.xs.to/xs318/07336/DSCF1959.jpg

savageevo
08-18-2007, 1:02 PM
where are the orange tips. Even my airsoft toys still have the orange tips. my peronal opinion, repaint the original orange tips back on because without it they reaaaalllllyyy look real. We don't want to give the airsoft/paintball hobby bad rap because of that. Just be smart about having those toys. O' by the way, wellcome to the family. you will find this site very informative.

Wulf
08-18-2007, 1:24 PM
They can lie in order to further their investigation. They can conceal who they are in order to protect the investigation and witnesses.

Police pretending to be firemen claiming an impending fire or other emergency, in order to side step the whole hassle of warrants and probable cause sounds like a really good way to create distrust that will make it harder for real firefighters to gain access to property during actual emergencies in the future. That's the case I'd make to the Judge in small claims court.

I'd have also told them to take a hike instead of letting them complete their picture taking. They have no right to document your lawful personal property for their own personal project. Whatever vague excuse they may have had to gain access to the property evaporated when they found the first airsoft gun.

Also, based on the timing as I understand it, the landlord very may well have been present when they called you offering the firefighter ruse. It might be in her best interest to back you up on that to keep from getting sued herself.

ldivinag
08-18-2007, 1:44 PM
i think the basic isue is is that the OP trusted people too much and the lack of search and seizures laws and rules knowledge.

cops can lie TO YOU to get an arrest.

caps CANNOT lie to a judge to get a search warrant.

granted this is all hind sight now and we can all be monday morning
quarterbacks.

lessons learned:

NO ONE gets into my place without a search warrant.

OR if you trust them, then let them in. but once you detect a lie, kick them out.

learn your 4th and 5th amendments rights.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Rob P.
08-18-2007, 2:11 PM
Police pretending to be firemen claiming an impending fire or other emergency, in order to side step the whole hassle of warrants and probable cause sounds like a really good way to create distrust that will make it harder for real firefighters to gain access to property during actual emergencies in the future. That's the case I'd make to the Judge in small claims court.

You wouldn't even make it to court. Your opinion on the actions by the police creating distrust is not sufficient to overcome the consent issue. There is no public policy preventing the police from pretending to be other than police. In fact there is an extremely strong public policy and sentiment which supports that sort of thing.

Finally, if you pushed it, you could wind up liable for all kinds of damages for filing an unmeritorious complaint. Both from the court you filed a claim in AND from a separate action by the police officers whom you "falsely accused" as violating your rights. This could happen even if you just filed a complaint with the PD dept because there's a special law which allows LEO to sue for falsely made official complaints.

Bottom line; let it rest, learn from it, and move on.

armspin
08-18-2007, 2:37 PM
Heres the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y77RHmTXdjo

Audio kind of sucks

There's your answer: I heard the one cop saying how they had to get good pics for "Media Relations" since they are "trying to get new legislation through to make all replicas have an identifying color or something".

Good job keeping your cool Alex, I would have had a hard time doing that. Kudo's to your bro for turning on the camera though, smart move. Is that the whole video or is there more?

mecam
08-18-2007, 2:38 PM
Am I the only one wanting to see the face of the female cop in the vid? :p

I was thinking the same thing. :D From what I can see, she looks like she's in shape.

KenpoProfessor
08-18-2007, 2:40 PM
Bottom line; let it rest, learn from it, and move on.


Yea, just give the robber what they want, it's safer that way. I'd say the whole camel got into the tent this time and you just want him to ignore it and wait for the herd?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

armspin
08-18-2007, 2:41 PM
I wish I did that, too, but I didnt know about the tape until they left

But alas, one more persons rights are violated and the world keeps on spinnin'. Ive got more important things to look forward to now anyways and while I might have a chance at gaining some money, the risk of wasted time and money on my end isnt worth it. I guess this thread turned into one of those "Hey guess what? The police break their own laws and you cant do anything about it!" threads now.

If they had noticed the camera was running, they would have "confiscated" it or destroyed it anyway. Bastards

JawBone
08-18-2007, 3:30 PM
I still call BS. Nice video and picture. No faces, no uniforms, no sidearms- convenient. One fake badge on a hip. Nice how they have the whole conversation directly in front of the camera but below face level. Cops are going into a location with supposed assault weapons with no shotguns/no swat?

Either someone played you for a sucker or you are trying to play us for suckers. This whole thread/story/vid/pic smells rotten. I'm not buying it. That was a fun ten minutes on a Saturday. Have fun fellas.

glockman19
08-18-2007, 3:59 PM
Well if it is true then I'd sue big time. You have them on video, you can determine who was there by the radio conversation, report. Sorry to hear they state your address. Sounds like Sherman Oaks, I won't repeat the actual street or address #.

Definately make a report. Definately ask to talk with Internal Affairs. I'd make coppoies and sent them into the news stations with a lette as well as the Council people for your district and the Police commission. Tehy meet every Tuesday @ Parker Center

locktime
08-18-2007, 4:30 PM
When the landlord called the police and said she noticed firearms in an apartment, why didn't they tell her that firearms are legal?

Did she tell them she thought she saw illegal assault weapons?

Does everyone who owns firearms need to be prepared for a knock on the door, because of a nosy neighbor or landlord?

What's the best way to communicate to the LAPD (and the landlord) that their actions in this case were unwarranted, excessive, and possibly illegal?

metalhead357
08-18-2007, 5:08 PM
I think I'm gonna call BS too after listening to the audio. *cop* says to show him CODE 6 blah blah then to show him CODE 10 about 1:05 into the vid.

CODE 10 is a BOMB THREAT:cool:

I think there's something amiss here...............

turinreza
08-18-2007, 6:25 PM
The problem is that you DID give consent. You told the "fire dept" guys on the phone that they should knock and that you'll tell your brother to let them in. Then you called your brother and said to let them in.

That's consent. Since you gave permission for them to enter AND you informed your "agent" to do so, you have no case. Sorry.

he gave consent to firemen .. not to policemen

Hoop
08-18-2007, 6:29 PM
he gave consent to firemen .. not to policemen

Yeah, but either way you're still getting the same cavity search so hey, lesson learned.

medic707
08-18-2007, 6:56 PM
I think I'm gonna call BS too after listening to the audio. *cop* says to show him CODE 6 blah blah then to show him CODE 10 about 1:05 into the vid.

CODE 10 is a BOMB THREAT:cool:

I think there's something amiss here...............

not all "ten codes" are universal....

"Code Ten. This call is broadcast when a clear frequency is required to check a suspect for wants and/or warrants. When an officer desires a clear frequency to check a suspect for wants and/or warrants, he/she shall:


Determine that the frequency is not in use;

Identify himself/herself with his or her unit number;

Request "Code Ten," and state the number of suspects to be checked; and,

Indicate whether suspects are juveniles"

http://harrymarnell.com/comm1.htm

metalhead357
08-18-2007, 7:06 PM
not all "ten codes" are universal....

"Code Ten. This call is broadcast when a clear frequency is required to check a suspect for wants and/or warrants. When an officer desires a clear frequency to check a suspect for wants and/or warrants, he/she shall:


Determine that the frequency is not in use;

Identify himself/herself with his or her unit number;

Request "Code Ten," and state the number of suspects to be checked; and,

Indicate whether suspects are juveniles"

http://harrymarnell.com/comm1.htm

Thanx MEdic: I WAS going off the more univeral ones; and as noted a code 10 is/was for a bomb threat, and IIRC a code 6 was out of the car on a cal..........

I tactfully & tentatively retract m' call of calling shenannigans......

alexroyce
08-18-2007, 7:13 PM
I still call BS. Nice video and picture. No faces, no uniforms, no sidearms- convenient. One fake badge on a hip. Nice how they have the whole conversation directly in front of the camera but below face level. Cops are going into a location with supposed assault weapons with no shotguns/no swat?

Either someone played you for a sucker or you are trying to play us for suckers. This whole thread/story/vid/pic smells rotten. I'm not buying it. That was a fun ten minutes on a Saturday. Have fun fellas.

I didnt come here to make people feel bad for me. I came here because someone told me to post it here and ive been answering questions. Believe what you want, why should I care?

I filed a complaint and ill leave it at that. Thankfully one of the officers gave me his card, so I know his name, serial #

Satex
08-18-2007, 7:24 PM
he gave consent to firemen .. not to policemen


I agree, consent was given to firemen to perform a smoke detector inspection. That is a well defined conditional entry. If indeed it was police that entered and searched - that is an unwarranted search.

jdberger
08-18-2007, 8:13 PM
I still don't understand why, when you realized that they were'nt legit, you didn't tell them to get out of your house?

"Ummm, you're gonna take pictures of my airsoft guns? The ones that shoot little plastic BBs? Get out. Get out now."

artherd
08-18-2007, 10:18 PM
The problem is that you DID give consent. You told the "fire dept" guys on the phone that they should knock and that you'll tell your brother to let them in. Then you called your brother and said to let them in.

That's consent. Since you gave permission for them to enter AND you informed your "agent" to do so, you have no case. Sorry.

WRONG!

“Consent to a search is voluntary when it is a true act of the will, an unequivocal product of an essentially free and unconstrained choice”
(People v Gonzalez, 39 NY2d 122, 128 [1976], People v Flores, 181 AD2d 570 [1st Dept 1992]).
“Voluntariness is incompatible with official coercion, actual or implicit, overt or subtle” (id. at 572). In order to ascertain whether a claimed consent is valid, the court must examine the totality of the circumstances under which it was given in order to determine whether it was the product of a free and unconstrained choice
(Colao v Mills, 3 AD3d 702, 704 [3d Dept 2004]; Schneckloth v Bustamonte, 412 US 218, 227 [1973]).

Conset to search may not be based on a False Premise. Consenting to allow an elevator repairman into your apartment to check a switch is NOT consent for Law Enforcement personel to search a residence for evidence of a crime!

In any event, a visiting brother does not have the ability to grant consent in the first place, and the cops know this.

Contact TMLLP, and do so over the phone, do not email. Ask to speak with Chuck or Jason.

psssniper
08-18-2007, 10:32 PM
Does everyone who owns firearms need to be prepared for a knock on the door, because of a nosy neighbor or landlord?

YES, Happened to a very close friend. I got an urgent call from someone who happened to be driving by my friends house saw him out front in handcuffs. I went over and by then everyone was inside. Lawyer who I had called on the way told me to be careful to not get my arse arrested also and stay out of the way. Couple hours later after the ATF, OCSD SWAT, helicopters, et.al. had left I finally got through to him. LEOs had drawn down on him big time, they ransacked the house, ran all the serial numbers on all his guns (couple hundred in his collection) and then said "gee sorry but we had to check" seems a neighbor had called and turned him in because he was 1) foreign sounding and 2) had guns:mad:

five.five-six
08-18-2007, 10:49 PM
Oh, and get some real guns!

YEA airsoft guns are like tampons, they keep *****s from becoming a bloody mess

EricCartmann
08-18-2007, 11:59 PM
Man between this an blackwaterops, I don't know how you guys can stand living in CA. Even if they were real guns the Calistapo had no right to search like that. What were they looking for? Anne Frank?

I see a very dark future for not just California but this whole country. Big brother will only get stronger as we, the majority, seem to want this.

Creeping Incrementalism
08-19-2007, 12:29 AM
Alex,

This isn't directly related to what happened here, but just in case you are not aware--from what I see only a few Airsoft owners are--there is a federal law against importing (from outside the U.S., or between states) imitation firearms in the U.S. not having an orange tip. California Penal code section 12553 prohibits you from painting over those orange tips. And section 12556 prohibits using any non-orange-tipped imitation firearms in any public place, unless it is part of an established competition or display. So if you brought these in from Korea you did so illegally.

My brother's friend lost several multi-hundred-dollar Airsoft guns to U.S. Customs on the way back from Japan.

Be careful with them.

I'm astounded by how the cops grabbed your (your brother's?) shoulder to check your eye color, instead of just asking you to look at them or positioning themselves to see your face. That's incredibly offensive, especially to someone not even detained.

And please update us on the face & rack of that female Lt. Damn!

the_natterjack
08-19-2007, 6:15 AM
I still call BS. Nice video and picture. No faces, no uniforms, no sidearms- convenient. One fake badge on a hip. Nice how they have the whole conversation directly in front of the camera but below face level. Cops are going into a location with supposed assault weapons with no shotguns/no swat?

Either someone played you for a sucker or you are trying to play us for suckers. This whole thread/story/vid/pic smells rotten. I'm not buying it. That was a fun ten minutes on a Saturday. Have fun fellas.

Body language is all wrong. Clothes are all wrong. Looks like a bunch of late teens early twenties. NOT LAPD detectives.

FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!
08-19-2007, 6:22 AM
Body language is all wrong. Clothes are all wrong. Looks like a bunch of late teens early twenties. NOT LAPD detectives.

I'm more than a little skeptical myself. Not finding the supposed post on craigslist either.

HK fan
08-19-2007, 6:49 AM
I totally believe you. But I just don't understand why you didn't tell them to get out of your house when you got there. By then they knew no crime had been committed.

armspin
08-19-2007, 7:33 AM
If your complaint becomes anything more...

I second getting the apt mgr to back you up on the Firemen claim and so forth. Otherwise, how would the LAPD have your number at work? They obviously hadn't knocked on the door yet (or your brother might have answered already)... she had to have given it to them.

Did I hear you asking them if they had a warrant? I thought it was on the video...

Anyway, sucks for you. I would not just let it ride though. At the very least, get nasty with your apt mgr. She gets free rent from the corporation that owns your building (most likely), so she doesn't want to lose that. Remember, YOUR BROTHER IS A GUEST, otherwise, you are probably breaking your lease, so she'll have that as backup against you. (Most leases say no guest can stay more than 10 days without being on the lease and having approval from management). If you have to alibi him as having stayed somewhere else at least one of every 10 days, do so now. Get pictures of where they ripped off the fire alarm from outside if you can.

Giving your apt mgr a hard time may be your only avenue if you do in fact have illegal airsoft guns... you did let them take pictures afterall :( Maybe you can get a free parking pass out of the deal for your brother.

The Professional
08-19-2007, 7:37 AM
Where's the SWAT team??? :confused: Where are their guns? :confused:

They are responding to this kind of "situation" unarmed? Does not make sense to me.

locktime
08-19-2007, 7:56 AM
I'm all for healthy suspicion.

However, the reason this is on Calguns is that I saw the post on Craigslist, and suggested he join and post the story here.

I thought Calguns members would be interested to hear of the tactics used by the LAPD when they received a report of "guns in view" in a private residence.

And this is the best place for informal legal advice involving California firearms related issues. Including illegal searches and other questionable police activities.

SgtBulldog
08-19-2007, 8:12 AM
Video looks legit to me. The female officer clearly has both a badge and a sidearm. I saw at least one official looking radio. Dispatcher on radio sounded 100% authentic. Folks, just because they are in plainclothes does not mean they are not cops and the whole thing is a hoax.

Exiledviking
08-19-2007, 8:55 AM
It will be interesting to see what comes out of this.

Am I the only one wanting to see the face of the female cop in the vid?

+1 :D

CaliTheKid
08-19-2007, 9:00 AM
Video looks legit to me. The female officer clearly has both a badge and a sidearm. I saw at least one official looking radio. Dispatcher on radio sounded 100% authentic. Folks, just because they are in plainclothes does not mean they are not cops and the whole thing is a hoax.

I agree. I only question what the PC was for them to be there int he first place. I am not convinced any laws/rights have been violated.

RRangel
08-19-2007, 9:20 AM
This is a very sad state of affairs, although I have to say that I'm not really surprised. Look at all of the victim disarming laws that are supported or created in this particular city. Its mayor, chief of police and many council members are in bed with well known anti-gun shill groups who purport to be grass roots organizations such as the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. These elitists do not want guns in the hands of American citizens. Try getting a concealed weapon permit in LA county to defend your life.

These police are just doing their jobs huh? Obviously in this case our rights are secondary to those who believe we need to be protected from ourselves, or for however they are rationalizing at the moment.

We shouldn't have to stand for it. Also people need to take a lesson from this and be careful when dealing with similar situations. The best thing this person can do is seek legal council. I think a little alternative media attention would be helpful too. Tell it loud and proud.

Travis
08-19-2007, 9:39 AM
I think the whole story is unbelievable. The video really makes me call BS. Someone was clearly holding and moving the video camera at one point (to show the guns on the floor) but never captured a single officer's face. Anyone that would have the presence of mind to turn on a camera, would have the presence of mind to capture faces ;)

However, it it was true, could this be the probable cause...

1) Tenant grants permission to landlord to enter for some reason.
2) Landlord see an impressive collection of realistic looking guns.
3) Landlord calls police, tells them about the large collection, and landlord give them the name(s) of the only tenant(s).
4) Police verify none of the presumed to be firearms are registered.
5) Police, using subterfuge, are given permission to enter by tenent. This entry factilitates the investigation of suspected unregistered firearms (many handguns and at least one suppressor are shown/mentioned in the video).

eta34
08-19-2007, 12:03 PM
I think we really need to be cautious about jumping on this bandwagon. BWO's case is pretty cut and dried...not a ton of interpretation there. Either he was legal or not. I think the majority of us here believe he was legal.

This one smells fishy to me.

alexroyce
08-19-2007, 1:01 PM
I totally believe you. But I just don't understand why you didn't tell them to get out of your house when you got there. By then they knew no crime had been committed.

After they left I basically have been kicking myself because I let them stay and forgot I could kick them out. Guess I just paniced or something.

RRangel
08-19-2007, 1:53 PM
I think we really need to be cautious about jumping on this bandwagon. BWO's case is pretty cut and dried...not a ton of interpretation there. Either he was legal or not. I think the majority of us here believe he was legal.

This one smells fishy to me.

Care to elaborate?

metalhead357
08-20-2007, 12:14 PM
alexroyce:

I have no idea why people are questioning the authenticity of your claims regarding this matter.

However, I think posting a pic of the LAPD officer's card here would establish pretty conclusively that you are legit.


THAT'd do it!;) Get 'er done!!!!!!!!:p

LAK Supply
08-20-2007, 12:38 PM
THAT'd do it!;) Get 'er done!!!!!!!!:p

Come on people.... this would only be legit if it was the female officer's card...... :D

alexroyce
08-20-2007, 8:37 PM
alexroyce:

I have no idea why people are questioning the authenticity of your claims regarding this matter.

However, I think posting a pic of the LAPD officer's card here would establish pretty conclusively that you are legit.

here you go:

Deleted (point proven) Calguns does not wish to give out personal info here.

i guess ill have to wait a month or something before getting a reply to the complaint filed

JawBone
08-20-2007, 8:49 PM
[me eating crow]

Unreal. Sorry that happened to you. Sue the bastiches.

8200rpm
08-20-2007, 8:53 PM
Originally Posted by pnkssbtz
Am I the only one wanting to see the face of the female cop in the vid?

I was thinking the same thing. :D From what I can see, she looks like she's in shape.

Her face?! I'd rather see something else.:D

Mssr. Eleganté
08-20-2007, 8:55 PM
Dude, that LAPD business card is totally airsoft. I call BS! :p

Riodog
08-21-2007, 2:51 AM
If we want to put an end to this tale, I can contact a friend that works LAPD Metro and he'll answer the questions. That, I believe would be the unit that handles this type of call. Be prepared though if this is a hoax, the sh*t just might hit the fan and the poster just might be in for more than he bargained for. Might want to think about the consequences before I call in the dogs. This unit is the elite and does not take lightly to false BS about things like this.
Rio

socalguns
08-21-2007, 4:28 AM
just what exactly do you/they think you can do about BS on the internet?

metalhead357
08-21-2007, 5:33 AM
[me eating crow]

Unreal. Sorry that happened to you. Sue the bastiches.

ME too.... I fully retract what I said.

CavTrooper
08-21-2007, 8:12 AM
If we want to put an end to this tale, I can contact a friend that works LAPD Metro and he'll answer the questions. That, I believe would be the unit that handles this type of call. Be prepared though if this is a hoax, the sh*t just might hit the fan and the poster just might be in for more than he bargained for. Might want to think about the consequences before I call in the dogs. This unit is the elite and does not take lightly to false BS about things like this.
Rio

And whats the flip side? If they did in fact unlawfully gain entrance to his home under false pretense, how will the "elite unit" be punished? Also, when the "elite unit" finds out that this possible victim of thier supposed abuses of power has begun to speak out about this what will they do? Is it possible that if they are in fact lawbreakers, that they will come up with a way to retaliate against this person? So keep in mind if/when you speak to your buddies at the "elite unit" be fair and impartial, if they did in fact break the law then they must be held accountable. If for some reason, this gentelman is all of a sudden arrested for some crazy crime, or mysteriously dissapears or something gawd awful should befall him, your "elite unit" buddies are immedietly suspect in the eyes of everyone here who has heard this story, if it is in fact true. Remeber the police are only human, they do make mistakes and they are also subject to corruption, this is the LAPD were talking about.

rkt88edmo
08-21-2007, 8:46 AM
In the continuum of mistreatment, this one isn't that bad, but I'd still be mighty mighty unhappy if it happened to me.

ibanezfoo
08-21-2007, 2:23 PM
Gotta love the police.

Not those ones.


It almost sounds like a home invasion robbery. Make sure nothing is missing.

-Bryan

ibanezfoo
08-21-2007, 2:54 PM
Remember how they nabbed him on a thursday night so they could hold him till monday with even formally charging him and setting bail? Is that legal to do?

I thought this was common practice. It happened to a friend of mine. He got picked up on a Thusday at his workplace for an incident that happened a week or two before hand. He even got the fancy armband (he was charged with some crazy violence, which was actually good... that armband kept some people at bay) and was put in with the murderers and whatnot all weekend. On the way to the courthouse he got pepper sprayed on the bus because some other guys were fighting and wasn't allowed to wash it off all weekend. After the weekend when it came Monday or Tuesday and he stood before the judge and the whole thing got thrown out because the "witnesses" didn't have a straight story and he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time and was sent home. Cost him his job, $10k bail fees, time in jail, etc.

I thought that was just how modern law enforcement works. :chris:

-Bryan

ibanezfoo
08-21-2007, 3:01 PM
Heres a picture of one of the cops compairing his real gun to my fake ones if anyone is wondering what my airsoft guns look like. Dont really know why my brother took a pic of this:

http://xs318.xs.to/xs318/07336/DSCF1959.jpg


Man, whats with the cops cruising around enforcing law without a uniform. This should NOT be allowed. I was caught in the breezeway at my work between some cops without uniforms (tacky hawaiian shirts and shorts, one had a pont tail and a bushy mustache...think Cochese with a ponytail) with their guns pointed at me. I didn't realize they were cops and were not even looking at me but past me at the guy they were going after (some internet child porn bust). I instictively reached for a firearm in the usual place I would carry if I had been carrying. That situation could have gotten real ugly real fast. It took a few seconds too long to notice the badges hanging around their necks and in fact one of them was pulling his badge out of his shirt as they were approaching. I don't like ugly people with stupid clothes pointing guns at me when I'm minding my own business and doing my job in my place of business. Kind of gives people the wrong idea.

-Bryan

Demontweak
08-21-2007, 8:19 PM
Im I the only one to notice the pink underware on the female?

8200rpm
08-21-2007, 9:04 PM
just what exactly do you/they think you can do about BS on the internet?

:laugh:

Im I the only one to notice the pink underware on the female?

:Ivan:

Tweak338
08-21-2007, 9:30 PM
Im I the only one to notice the pink underware on the female?

I missed that.
and I watched the video 3 times!

five.five-six
08-21-2007, 9:46 PM
I missed that.
and I watched the video 3 times!

crap, I can not see utube at work...blocked

packnrat
08-21-2007, 10:16 PM
sounds like time to hire a lier....a mean lawyer

Riodog
08-21-2007, 10:22 PM
Cavtrooper, I have no idea, What I'm saying is if this is some hogwash that someone has cooked up for whatever reason, then to bring it to the attention of the unit that would normally handle this type of thing might just open a can of worms. Does this person really want that much or type of attention or would he rather just bow out gracefully. Once I ask a question then it's outta my hands. If this is a hoax or whatever then it could result in whomever taking a closer look at somebody for reasons not pertaining to this tale. By posting that officers card along with this tale could be construed as an accusation of some type.
Rio

CavTrooper
08-22-2007, 3:41 AM
I understand what you are saying, and it sounds pretty close to threats and intimidation. "Speak out and we will have your a**".
Personally, I do not have any reason to doubt the guy, hes shown video, hes shown the card, and hes told his story. You and I both know that no one will ever be held accountable for this if it is in fact true, but if its a lie, this guy is gonna get in some trouble IF he files a false report.
Either way, the story and some folks reaction to it show the clear feelings of some that the police can do no wrong.

ibanezfoo
08-22-2007, 6:48 AM
Cavtrooper, I have no idea, What I'm saying is if this is some hogwash that someone has cooked up for whatever reason, then to bring it to the attention of the unit that would normally handle this type of thing might just open a can of worms. Does this person really want that much or type of attention or would he rather just bow out gracefully. Once I ask a question then it's outta my hands. If this is a hoax or whatever then it could result in whomever taking a closer look at somebody for reasons not pertaining to this tale. By posting that officers card along with this tale could be construed as an accusation of some type.
Rio

So they will retaliate? That sounds like a threat and is exactly why this guys post is important. If it is BS, then the cops are going to "open a can of worms"? Instead of doing their jobs, they will harass/beat up/arrest/whatever this guy for posting some stuff on a gun forum? Sorry man, but what you post sounds really really bad, for the cops, not the poster. In fact, I wonder what they would think if they knew you were posting threats on their behalf...

-Bryan

BSlacker
08-22-2007, 7:42 AM
The video, if real, only shows what bad taste the LAPD plain clothes people have in gun belts. Are these the big bad dudes RIO speaks of that can open a can of worms? Looks wormy to me in those ill fitting belts and sloppy dress must be urban camo. And I like free range worms not canned, please. Aren't we paying these people enough to dress well. Looks bad on camera. The audio recording is the problem here as I see it. Did you get everyones permission to record?

Riodog
08-22-2007, 11:05 AM
So they will retaliate? That sounds like a threat and is exactly why this guys post is important. If it is BS, then the cops are going to "open a can of worms"? Instead of doing their jobs, they will harass/beat up/arrest/whatever this guy for posting some stuff on a gun forum? Sorry man, but what you post sounds really really bad, for the cops, not the poster. In fact, I wonder what they would think if they knew you were posting threats on their behalf...

-Bryan

READ MY POST! IF his post was NOT factual and since he posted the officers business card, that could be construed as an accusation pointed at that officer. If such an accusation was pointed in my direction I would not let it go. As an officer, such an accusation could have dire consequences to my job security, advancement, etc. Only an idiot would think along such lines as "beat up". However you can be assured that it would be looked in to as to an underlying reason for such a post. What was the motive behind such a post? Did he have a grudge against this officer? Personally, if this was in fact a legitimate complaint then he should have followed up according to protocol and gone about it the right way thru the dept., or thru the hiring of a qualified attorney. Not post on this website. It get's him nowhere.
Rio

ibanezfoo
08-22-2007, 11:27 AM
Did you get everyones permission to record?

Do you need permission to record in your own house? :confused:

-Bryan

BSlacker
08-22-2007, 11:43 AM
You don't need permission to record in your own house or anywhere else if you only record yourself. When recording others for use in court you need their permission. The recording could be used in an administrative action without the other persons permission, but not in court. Sort of like when an officer audio records you without you knowing it and later you make a false accusation the recording would be used at an internal investigation to indicate what really happened but not to charge you, the charge that would be the officers word against yours. I bet one of the officers recorded the whole thing. But then again they didn't seem to be up on the latest high risk contact procedures.

glockwitknocks
12-08-2007, 5:35 PM
is it illegal for a renter to own a gun? or do a renter needs his manager's aprroval to have a gun in his/her appartment?

Knight
12-08-2007, 5:40 PM
is it illegal for a renter to own a gun?

Absolutely not! I am a renter and I own all kinds of guns. Now, if something in your lease and/or contract states that you can't own weapons, then we get into legalese territory and I can't help you. But pretty much, as long as there isn't anything in your contract/lease, I'm pretty sure you have the legal right to keep a gun in your rented space.

Hopefully someone with more legal experience can chime in and give you a second opinion.

pnkssbtz
12-08-2007, 5:43 PM
Absolutely not! I am a renter and I own all kinds of guns. Now, if something in your lease and/or contract states that you can't own weapons, then we get into legalese territory and I can't help you. But pretty much, as long as there isn't anything in your contract/lease, I'm pretty sure you have the legal right to keep a gun in your rented space.

Hopefully someone with more legal experience can chime in and give you a second opinion.

If you own guns in a lease and the lease says you can't. You aren't breaking the LAW, you are breaking the CONTRACT.

metalhead357
12-08-2007, 7:29 PM
Hopefully someone with more legal experience can chime in and give you a second opinion.


Bills big on saying that there's a provision that if you own AW's then that must specifically be authorized by letter or lease.....I dont know where the quip/bit comes from. But as far as other firearms go...if they're legal and nothin in the lease says you cant have them there then its all good.

Scarecrow Repair
12-08-2007, 9:09 PM
Bills big on saying that there's a provision that if you own AW's then that must specifically be authorized by letter or lease.....I dont know where the quip/bit comes from. But as far as other firearms go...if they're legal and nothin in the lease says you cant have them there then its all good.

IANAL of course, but I believe the AW restriction is someone else coming to a rented abode. As I remember Bill saying, the renter can keep whatever he wants and owns, or has legally borrowed, but maybe not a borrowed AW, if you can even legally loan an AW (I suspect not out of the owner's sight). It is the renter's friends coming by for a visit that need written permission from the owner (not the manager, not the renter) but only for AW.

I am certain I am close on this, and also certain that I am not completely correct. I do not know, for instance, if the landlord can put no-gun restrictions in the contract. There are many things that cannot go in a contract, or at least are unenforceable.

Diablo
12-09-2007, 8:18 AM
Did anything come out of this? Did Alexroyce file a complaint?

Bizcuits
12-09-2007, 3:21 PM
I'd more curious if you can take legal action against the manager? :confused:

rhbanjo
12-28-2007, 2:55 PM
Umm- what the heck was the apartment manager doing inside your apartment without your permission? He has no right to come inside- that alone is, I believe against the law.
check out handelonthelaw.com

arod7615
12-28-2007, 3:22 PM
hard to believe that happened:confused: what lapd division handles your area?