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View Full Version : Would an AR pistol with a 16.1" barrel require a bullet button?


Sac Stock
12-25-2012, 8:14 PM
By my layman's reading of the Calguns Wiki, I don't see why it would require a bullet button or have magazine capacity limits...No shoulder stock, thus not a rifle; barrel greater than 16", and the barrel isn't "designed to be interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches in length," thus not a handgun. I'm sure that I'm wrong here, but can my inaccuracy be documented? Thanks! :confused:

big ron
12-25-2012, 8:22 PM
you need a bullet button.

jeffxbr
12-25-2012, 8:22 PM
Because the magazine is not inside the pistol grip like a standard handgun.. I just bought a mp5 clone and needed to have a bullet button

ProjectWind
12-25-2012, 8:39 PM
sounds like you might be talking about a title 1 long gun. See this thread:
http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=310269

MattyB
12-25-2012, 8:45 PM
NOPE.

Pin the muzzle (pistols arent supposed to have threaded barrels)
No evil features for pistols (front grip is the big one)
No stock
A lower that wasnt DROS'd as a rifle

and you are good to go.

After a certain overall length it falls into the an unclassified "Firearm"territory and you can add a VFG like the Franklin Armory version.

Arthur84
12-25-2012, 8:47 PM
Pistols can have a threaded barrel if the magazine is fixed. My ad pistol has a threaded barrel and a bullet button.

MattyB
12-25-2012, 8:58 PM
Pistols can have a threaded barrel if the magazine is fixed. My ad pistol has a threaded barrel and a bullet button.

I took the question to ask if a pistol build with a long barrel needed a BB, obviously if the barrel is threaded it needs one but that goes for a Glock, 1911 or AR pistol.

Carnivore
12-25-2012, 9:26 PM
NOPE.

Pin the muzzle (pistols arent supposed to have threaded barrels)
No evil features for pistols (front grip is the big one)
No stock
A lower that wasnt DROS'd as a rifle

and you are good to go.

After a certain overall length it falls into the an unclassified "Firearm"territory and you can add a VFG like the Franklin Armory version.

Still needs a BB...bold below. You are thinking of a forward pistol grip with out being a AOW. 16" barrel is considered non-concealable but you still need a BB.

4.A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
A.A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
B.(B) A second handgrip.
C.A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
D.The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

Sac Stock
12-25-2012, 10:28 PM
Still needs a BB...bold below. You are thinking of a forward pistol grip with out being a AOW. 16" barrel is considered non-concealable but you still need a BB.

4.A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
A.A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
B.(B) A second handgrip.
C.A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
D.The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

However, the Calguns Wiki defines "handgun" as having a barrel less than 16" long... What happens if the barrel is longer than 16"?

SamsDX
12-25-2012, 10:31 PM
4.A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:[/B]

The highlighted term above is the key to deciphering the legality of this proposed build. Per the thread linked-to above, and as OP picked up, the barrel is longer than 16", hence it is NOT a pistol. In a nutshell, not having a buttstock, it does not meet the CA and Federal definition of a "Rifle." Because no California AW law would cover a non-pistol, non-rifle firearm (it's just a "long gun"), it wouldn't be subject to all the other BS including the bullet button, features/featureless test, magazine capacity, etc.

It's been about a while since configuration has been discussed, but the latest word seems to be that it's kosher. Having said that, I don't think I will be putting together one of these any time soon. It takes a lot of knowledge and ability to explain and clear the different inter-relationships between Federal and California law something that, even as a legal professional, can be difficult and confusing.

Sac Stock
12-25-2012, 10:43 PM
The highlighted term above is the key to deciphering the legality of this proposed build. Per the thread linked-to above, and as OP picked up, the barrel is longer than 16", hence it is NOT a pistol. In a nutshell, not having a buttstock, it does not meet the CA and Federal definition of a "Rifle." Because no California AW law would cover a non-pistol, non-rifle firearm (it's just a "long gun"), it wouldn't be subject to all the other BS including the bullet button, features/featureless test, magazine capacity, etc.

It's been about a while since configuration has been discussed, but the latest word seems to be that it's kosher. Having said that, I don't think I will be putting together one of these any time soon. It takes a lot of knowledge and ability to explain and clear the different inter-relationships between Federal and California law something that, even as a legal professional, can be difficult and confusing.

Thank you. I won't build this, as I have professional certification to maintain with the state, but it is good to know. :)

Harrison_Bergeron
12-25-2012, 10:55 PM
You did not mention overall length, unless it is over 26" it is not a long gun.


The highlighted term above is the key to deciphering the legality of this proposed build. Per the thread linked-to above, and as OP picked up, the barrel is longer than 16", hence it is NOT a pistol. In a nutshell, not having a buttstock, it does not meet the CA and Federal definition of a "Rifle." Because no California AW law would cover a non-pistol, non-rifle firearm (it's just a "long gun"), it wouldn't be subject to all the other BS including the bullet button, features/featureless test, magazine capacity, etc.

It's been about a while since configuration has been discussed, but the latest word seems to be that it's kosher. Having said that, I don't think I will be putting together one of these any time soon. It takes a lot of knowledge and ability to explain and clear the different inter-relationships between Federal and California law something that, even as a legal professional, can be difficult and confusing.

bwiese
12-26-2012, 3:13 PM
1. For now any 'featured' AR requires a BulletButton-style maglock.

2. I do not recommend a 'pistol' with 16"-or-over bbl - don't want to risk SBR drama if a shorter bbl later mounted on it.

3. Please do not play the Title 1 non-rifle game for now.

Sac Stock
12-26-2012, 9:11 PM
Understood. I will not build a 16+" AR pistol without a bullet button. Thank you for your dedication to this cause! :)

ETA: When you or Gene say it's okay, I WILL build this gun.

bwiese
12-26-2012, 9:20 PM
Understood. I will not build a 16+" AR pistol without a bullet button. Thank you for your dedication to this cause! :)

ETA: When you or Gene say it's okay, I WILL build this gun.


Individual CGF Board members will go ahead with their own guns at the proper time, and announce, when the time is right.