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View Full Version : instead of staples & Surures, SURVIVE GUNSHOT TILL 911?


ZombieZoo
12-25-2012, 8:08 PM
Ever get that funny feeling when out in some even semi-remote location and doing something with risk, from construction to hunting and thought "if something happened it might be a LONG time till help from 911 gets here"?

I've quit a couple otherwise good jobs in construction because they were out of cell range and client refused to take running a land line seriously, and none of my co-workers were the type you wanted to count on to save your life (lack of training, just dumb, etc).

Where is some good info on how to survive (most likely accidental) gunshot wound till you can get to real ER/trauma center.

Not worried about an infection that can be handled later with lots of anti-bios, just trying to keep from bleeding out.

I've know a couple guys who got speared by sharp sticks in motorcycle wrecks in the boondocks and managed to ride back miles and miles offroad with 'lumber' in them. (which they figured they better leave in place to prevent bleeding)

Stuff a lot of gauze into the wound and wrap tight with tape?

Fjold
12-25-2012, 8:30 PM
So you don't go anywhere where you don't have cell reception? What a boring life you must lead.

Laythor
12-25-2012, 8:39 PM
sounds like you have agoraphobia

strangerdude
12-25-2012, 8:39 PM
Depends where you get shot, there are many variables. If alone you should have occlusive dressings for sucking chest wound or neck wound and tourniquet. If with a group oral/nasal airways, ice packs, blanket, gauze, etc should also be in your gear. I advice you not to use airway adjuncts unless properly trained. But if no medical supplies, I would put my fingers in my gsw.

twinfin
12-25-2012, 9:47 PM
A proper understanding of trauma should leave you with the knowledge that your biggest bang for the buck would be in exercising great care in not getting hurt in the first place.

Should that fail, a decent plan on how to get to help or get help to come to you would be my second priority. After that, the objective becomes how to buy time until proper care becomes available.

How do you buy time? Well, for a gunshot wound, blood loss is often the primary medical issue to address. With gunshot wounds to the extremities it is usually easier to control bleeding with direct pressure. On the other hand, a gunshot wound to the chest or abdomen often causes bleeding that can not be controlled externally and that is a big worry. If the lung is punctured or other structures related to the breathing passage are damaged, then getting proper oxygen can become deficient and there's precious little you can do to manage that outside the hospital other than placing an airtight seal over wounds that appear to puncture the lung.

Keeping the victim flat or possibly elevating the legs will help buy time when blood loss is severe as well as keeping the victim warm by covering with a blanket (unless it's already 100 degrees outside!). Oxygen can be used safely and applied at 10 to 15 liters per minute via non rebreather mask if you have that equipment.

There are other time buying skills that can be done prior to arriving at the hospital but those techniques and procedures require clinical skill and practice to perform as well as knowing when to and when not to perform those advanced skills.

Recap:

-Don't get hurt in the first place.
-If you do get hurt, know how to get help fast.
-Buy time by:
1 Control bleeding.
2 Treat for shock

Librarian
12-25-2012, 9:59 PM
Following strangerdude, it really does matter exactly where you receive the GSW.

3 general areas - head, torso, limbs.

Limbs are pretty straightforward; clean them up, stop the bleeding, usually you'll make it to the hospital, even if it's a day or so.

Head is usually straightforward; mostly you're DRT or scalp/cheek wound. There are lots of other in-between scenarios too yucky to talk about; let it be sufficient to say that putting a pistol in your mouth does not always kill the person. Controlling bleeding from a head/neck wound can be complicated.

Big problem is torso, because controlling internal bleeding requires surgery. (wellll, let me qualify that - I'm told if there's a big enough hole that you can reach your dirty hands in there, sometimes you can Do Something, but That's Not An Ideal Situation.) Bleeding, shredded organs, pierced bladder and intestines dumping 'dirty' stuff all over, punctured lungs, punctured heart, damaged spinal cord - all kinds of problems with GSW to the torso.

Once worked with a guy in ICU with something like 7 torso wounds, all below the ribs (plus defensive wounds in his arms and one or two through his thigh.) 8 hours of surgery; he lived, AFAIK. I saw him a day or two after surgery, but just the one day - different assignment following days.

(No, no vest. He seemed to be an Independent Pharmaceutical Salesman, and competitors or superiors decided to Send A Message regarding territory or sales performance; he was awake but not very talkative.)

mindwip
12-25-2012, 10:05 PM
Sounds like you need some first aid training, first responder etc.

Put a big bandaid on it and treat for shock. Really all you can do.

Falstaff
12-26-2012, 2:51 PM
95% of GSW patients who make it to the ER and havent died yet make it....

its all about the hydraulic pressure...

Falstaff
12-26-2012, 2:51 PM
95% of GSW patients who make it to the ER and havent died yet make it....

its all about the hydraulic pressure...

DPC
12-26-2012, 3:17 PM
Army first aid manuals, combat aid manuals, I would think.

bohoki
12-26-2012, 3:23 PM
butterfly closures

also keep a good stock of 3m micropore tape that stuff is amazing

curad telfa pads are the best

for a bleeding wound you need professional help get there quick towells and a belt to apply decent pressure also being on the way to help helps psycologically

johnny1290
12-26-2012, 9:33 PM
This is a great thread. I don't blame you for not wanting to bleed out on a job site surrounded by chuckleheads.

You gotta pick your battles.

Actually, come think of it, in the early 90s I worked on oil rigs where I was replacing the guy who died (or hospitalized) doing the same job the day before. No phones, I guess they might have been able to radio or something, but it wasn't good enough to help the last guy LOL

I was young and dumb and didn't think about stuff like that at the time.

tacksman
12-27-2012, 5:24 AM
Take a first responder class. The best tool you could have in a bad situation is your brain.
The class should give you a brief idea what you should carry in your med kit, and dont forget the quick clot...

Gothboy
12-27-2012, 6:19 AM
Perhaps consider investing in one of those global phones or GPS phones or whatever they call them. I read somewhere (on the internet so I dont know if its true) that they can get reception almost anywhere. You'd have to look into it more if you're interested.

BonnieB
12-28-2012, 8:18 PM
I think Gothboy is referring to satellite phones. If I worked on a remote site, and the employer didn't provide one to the crew, he'd be liable under OSHA.

Or, provide your own and get the boss to pay for it.

bill_k_lopez
12-30-2012, 10:43 AM
One word - QuikClot (http://www.quikclot.com/)

slo5oh
12-31-2012, 11:14 AM
I haven't used it for anything life threatening but superglue is excellent at closing up wounds.

Taidaisher
12-31-2012, 11:35 AM
Perhaps consider investing in one of those global phones or GPS phones or whatever they call them. I read somewhere (on the internet so I dont know if its true) that they can get reception almost anywhere. You'd have to look into it more if you're interested.

We have a couple of them issued to certain members of the senior leadership team in case of a major disaster. They are big, bulky, expensive, and get a signal (just about) everywhere as long as you have a line of sight to the sky. If you are under coverage (heavy foliage, concrete structure, caves, etc.) they are as useless as your common cell phone.

Changalang
01-06-2013, 10:49 PM
if you cant maintain blood pressure, you'll pass out, pass out and you'll probably bleed out.
buddy system is important imo.

Paltik
01-08-2013, 4:58 PM
I've worked in some pretty remote places, where it might take me hours to get to a rustic hospital. I assumed there would be people who could drive me to help and who could apply pressure to a wound, etc. All I added to my kit was an IV kit (fluid, tubing, needle, etc.) to help with blood pressure one the way.

Manolito
01-08-2013, 5:23 PM
Any punture wound above the diaphram can cause a lung to collapse. There are ways to correct this before transport and makes the breathing a lot easier. Many good classes out there one of the best is an off shore sailing medicine class talk about remote try sailing from continent to continent.

Librarian said a lot when it was said not all people die from a gunshot wound to the mouth or head. Very hard to get an airway etc.

Retired EMT basic and dealing with a long transport is the toughest work I have ever done.

Good luck on your journey down the path of emergency medicine.

justin_5585
01-09-2013, 10:40 AM
Take an EMT class at the local JC, it will teach you the basics in a semester (and the schedule usually is possible for a working adult). If you want to really have the tools to do work, go through a paramedicine program (but be advised, its a way more stressful and time consuming animal than EMT, although it is fun as hell!)

Quickdraw Mcgraw
01-09-2013, 12:48 PM
I got shot thru the legs and they told me if the feroral artery gets hit your dead in 5 min...if your really pumping blood and you got an artery hit you need to go into the wound and pinch off your artery to stop blood flow. Thats what the docs told me. I got real lucky taking a 9mm thru both thighs missing all arterys and only nicking one tendon, 25minute ride to the hospital I was trying to plug 4 holes!

Quickdraw Mcgraw
01-09-2013, 12:49 PM
I got shot thru the legs and they told me if the feroral artery gets hit your dead in 5 min...if your really pumping blood and you got an artery hit you need to go into the wound and pinch off your artery to stop blood flow. Thats what the docs told me. I got real lucky taking a 9mm thru both thighs missing all arterys and only nicking one tendon, 25minute ride to the hospital I was trying to plug 4 holes!