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jojosdad
08-16-2007, 1:47 PM
I saw an auction on Auction Arms for an 1860 Colt which stated that BP guns could only be shipped to a FFL in California. I wrote the seller about this and he responded by telling me that I have a letter sent to all FFLs by the CA DOJ through BATF that says all black powder pistol and revolvers MUST go to a CA 01 FFL http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8157090
This doesn't seem right to me - does anyone heard anything about this?

chiefcrash
08-16-2007, 2:00 PM
doesn't sound right at all. especially since SOG had no problems sending me a black powder pistol yesterday...

ASK/BEG/BRIBE HIM FOR A COPY OF THAT LETTER. I'm sure Bill and Hoff wanna see it...

StukaJr
08-16-2007, 3:17 PM
Blackpowder rifles and revolvers are cash-and-carry in CA - why would they need FFL to have it shipped?

ETD1010
08-16-2007, 3:19 PM
you should send him the quote of the law stating it's okay w/o FFL.... but I can't find it at the moment..

jojosdad
08-17-2007, 1:05 AM
Sent letter to seller a few minutes ago. Will advise on response.

GW
08-17-2007, 2:38 AM
Cabela's and Mid-South will mail you one without a hassle as will Midway

EOD Guy
08-17-2007, 7:40 AM
I saw an auction on Auction Arms for an 1860 Colt which stated that BP guns could only be shipped to a FFL in California. I wrote the seller about this and he responded by telling me that http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8157090
This doesn't seem right to me - does anyone heard anything about this?


If there was such a letter it would be posted on the BATF web site as are all open letters to FFLs.

jojosdad
08-17-2007, 10:18 AM
I just received this reply just spoke to BATF's Regional office in Spokane, WA, which covers my area. I am told the information I have is correct. The key word is REPLICA. If it's a ORIGINAL cap and ball revolver from the Civil War era for example, that is OK. Replicas are considered a modern weapon. I can sell to a Californian BUT only through an 01 FFL (even a CA 03 C&R holder cannot receive ANY handgun, except an ORIGINAL antique cap and ball)). I don't make the laws. I once did live actually pretty near where you live and understand your frustration. Yes, I agree, that apparently the California DOJ and Attorney General ""make law as they go"" . A number of years ago I ""voted with my feet"" and left California. You are certainly welcome to move here, where you can own any gun you want, including class III. Idaho is full of great people who appreciate gun ownership. You^d fit in fine. If I can help you in any way, except on this issue I will be happy too. Becoming a ""target"" for BATF is not my kind of fun. I was there a number of years ago. After $30,000 in legal fees, I won, but l lost a wife in the process(actually that was no great loss) Good luck to you, but no more conversation on this issue.

FortCourageArmory
08-17-2007, 10:30 AM
BATF is flat-out wrong. Not unheard of, but....I would have asked for the section of code that states "replicas only", but that's me. Sounds like this guy isn't going to budge.

Fjold
08-17-2007, 10:34 AM
His reasoning changes from a DOJ letter to a BATF phonecall. It sounds suspiciously like he's a flake.

jojosdad
08-17-2007, 12:38 PM
I don't think he's a flake, just a FFL who's already spent $30K on a court fight with BATF and is operating with the info he's been given. He's just trying to CYA.

JawBone
08-17-2007, 1:18 PM
Am I the only one who thinks the BOF and ATF should read their own regs?

California 2007 Dangerous Weapons Control Law
ARTICLE 1. GENERAL PROVISIONS

* 12001.e) For purposes of Sections 12070, 12071, and paragraph (8) of subdivision (a), and subdivisions (b), (c), (d), and (f) of Section 12072, the term "firearm" does not include an unloaded firearm that is defined as an "antique firearm" in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code.

Title 18 of the United States Code, Section 921(a)(16):

(16) The term “antique firearm” means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898;or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition...
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition...