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dl351
12-24-2012, 11:16 PM
Hello all. I've searched the threads and I have seen this or similar questions asked many times. I have had a hard time making complete sense of the answers that I have seen. So here is my question.

My dad bought a stripped lower receiver. He decided he didn't like that particular one and gave it to me. As a gift, from father to son (I am well over 21 yrs old), does any paperwork need to be filled out? It's pretty clear that there is paperwork for handguns, but not for long guns. I'm not quite clear on the deal with stripped lowers. Thanks in advance for any help!

bloodhawke83
12-24-2012, 11:17 PM
Gtg

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Mssr. Eleganté
12-25-2012, 12:02 AM
If you are both California residents then no paperwork is required because a stripped lower is not a handgun.

If you are residents of two different States then the transfer has to go through a dealer to comply with federal law.

Librarian
12-25-2012, 12:04 AM
Right.

A stripped lower generally is not a handgun; CA has only the long gun/hand gun classes, while Feds include 'other', but CA requires paper on handguns only, until Jan 1 2014.

john67elco
12-25-2012, 2:40 AM
What about a stripped lower from an 80% engraved as pistol?

Loopwell
12-25-2012, 2:44 AM
What about a stripped lower from an 80% engraved as pistol?

I think legally you cannot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the one who builds their own gun is the only person in the world allowed to own it. It may not ever be transferred, nor can it be given away.

markw
12-25-2012, 2:46 AM
I think that's handgun and the age is 18 for that. I'll probably gift a few lowers before Jan 1 2014 to my kids. My youngest is 15, so he can build the rifle how he wants to.

markw
12-25-2012, 2:47 AM
I think legally you cannot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the one who builds their own gun is the only person in the world allowed to own it. It may not ever be transferred, nor can it be given away.

You can sell it, it just has to have identifying marks. Now gifting it to your kid is one I've pondered, since before Jan 1 2014, there's no paperwork involved.

Cpt
12-25-2012, 3:30 AM
My understanding is that you can build as many 80% firearms (rifle or handgun) as you want. However, over your life time you can not sell more than 4 firearms, unless you get a FFL as a manufacture.

The BATFE does recommend that you mark your home builds with your own serial number or unique stamp in case of thief, sale, or police search. You don't have to mark the gun but it might look suspicious if a police officer ask to see the gun (make up your own scenario way this would happen-traffic stop after a day at the range etc.). He or she might not be familiar with home builds, and you might end up being detained for a few hours. Home builds are not required to be registered especially if they are long guns.

As far as inheritance goes you can do a intrafamilial transfer which cost $19 for the transaction if the firearmS transferred are handguns. If the transfer is within the family and involves a long gun no DOJ or FFL paperwork needs to be done since the existence of the 80% build is not known by a level of gov't only to the individual who built it.

As mentioned in be previous reply on 1/1/2014 all firearm purchased or transferred have to be registered with the CA DOJ. I don't know if 80% builds are covered, but I doubt it would require their registration. This has been my interpreting of what I have read on forums and the CA DOJ website.

mrdd
12-25-2012, 4:09 AM
My understanding is that you can build as many 80% firearms (rifle or handgun) as you want. However, over your life time you can not sell more than 4 firearms, unless you get a FFL as a manufacture.

Where do you get this from? Please cite the law or regulation.

SMR510
12-25-2012, 9:05 PM
You can sell it, it just has to have identifying marks. Now gifting it to your kid is one I've pondered, since before Jan 1 2014, there's no paperwork involved.

Its a pistol so there is paperwork involved. It would be exactly the same as a intrafamiliar transfer of any handgun, fill out the form and send it in with $19.

Cpt
12-26-2012, 10:29 PM
Link to very informative trend on CalGuns. I will go back to my post and cite the sources.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=86627

mrdd
12-28-2012, 4:36 AM
Link to very informative trend on CalGuns. I will go back to my post and cite the sources.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=86627

Note that the thread you reference is very old, and contains a lot of obsolete or inaccurate info.

The fact is that under federal law, there is no requirement to get a license unless you are "engaged in the business".

18 USC § 921
(a) As used in this chapter -

(10) The term "manufacturer" means any person engaged in the
business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition for purposes of
sale or distribution; and the term "licensed manufacturer" means
any such person licensed under the provisions of this chapter.

(21) The term "engaged in the business" means -
(A) as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who
devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a
regular course of trade or business with the principal objective
of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the
firearms manufactured;

18 USC § 922
(a) It shall be unlawful -
(1) for any person -
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or
licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing,
manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such
business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in
interstate or foreign commerce;

Bbonez
12-28-2012, 6:25 AM
What is the legal age for my children to finsh an 80% themself? I know you need to be 18 to purchase but not sure of the age to own. And since an 80 is not a firearm can I give an 80 to each of my children? My children ar 5, 6 & 14.....

dieselpower
12-28-2012, 6:50 AM
Note that the thread you reference is very old, and contains a lot of obsolete or inaccurate info.

The fact is that under federal law, there is no requirement to get a license unless you are "engaged in the business".

18 USC § 921

snip

You don't get to decide what "engaged in the business of" means, The ATF and federal prosecutors do. You have your opine and they have theirs. Someone is going to be wrong.

What is the legal age for my children to finsh an 80% themself? I know you need to be 18 to purchase but not sure of the age to own. And since an 80 is not a firearm can I give an 80 to each of my children? My children ar 5, 6 & 14.....

The age of common sense.

mrdd
12-28-2012, 10:47 AM
You don't get to decide what "engaged in the business of" means, The ATF and federal prosecutors do. You have your opine and they have theirs. Someone is going to be wrong.

Yes, but they have to prove that you are making them for the purpose of sale.

badreligion
12-28-2012, 1:58 PM
There is no age requirement for possession of long guns in California. My 2 year old owns an AR lower and my 8 year old owns a 10/22 and an AR lower which we are picking out parts for. They store them in my Gun Safe.

Southbay
12-28-2012, 5:32 PM
I wish to transfer AR lowers and complete rifles to my children 20 and 24 years old, it would seem according to the reply’s no paperwork needs to be done, if that is correct is the 20 year old good to go with me giving him a lower and what establishes the transfer?

Mssr. Eleganté
12-28-2012, 11:14 PM
I wish to transfer AR lowers and complete rifles to my children 20 and 24 years old, it would seem according to the reply’s no paperwork needs to be done, if that is correct is the 20 year old good to go with me giving him a lower and what establishes the transfer?

If you and your two children are all California residents then no paperwork needs to be done. There is no minimum age requirement for firearms that are not handguns. Your kids could be 6 months old or even younger.

The thing that establishes the transfer is you handing them the firearms, same as if you were giving them a bicycle or an ipod.

Starting in 2014 they will need to be at least 18 years old for you to transfer a ownership of any firearm to them and you will need to report any transfers to CalDOJ.

dl351
01-01-2013, 8:08 PM
Thank you all for the helpful information. So as far as the state and federal governments are concerned, the transfer (gift) of the lower receiver from my dad to me requires no paper work, correct? I'm so used to the convoluted gun laws here, this almost seems too simple!

Thanks again!

dl351
01-01-2013, 8:08 PM
Thank you all for the helpful information. So as far as the state and federal governments are concerned, the transfer (gift) of the lower receiver from my dad to me requires no paper work, correct? I'm so used to the convoluted gun laws here, this almost seems too simple!

Thanks again!

badreligion
01-01-2013, 10:45 PM
Correct, as long as your both CA residents.