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View Full Version : URGENT: Vote on California Microstamping Legislation Imminent!


MIKEUSMC2005
08-16-2007, 1:04 PM
Anyone worried out there?


Assembly Bill 1471 could be voted on as soon as the Senate returns to session on Monday, August 20.


AB1471 would require that after a certain date, the make, model, and serial number be microstamped onto the interior surface or internal working parts of all handguns in such a manner that those identifiers are imprinted onto the cartridge case upon firing. Under AB1471, the manufacture, sale, and transfer of handguns that do not include their identifying information would be a crime.

MrTuffPaws
08-16-2007, 4:38 PM
Not all handguns, just automatics. :D

RRangel
08-16-2007, 5:26 PM
People you need to make your voices heard on this. It's a lot better to nip this in the bud than let it get to the governor.

There is no logical reasoning why something like this should become law. Don't forget to contact the appropriate representatives on this. This can't be allowed to become law.

sammy
08-17-2007, 4:50 PM
If this passes it will be the biggest blow to gun ownership period. It will simply be too difficult and expensive for manufactures to sell their products to California. This is just what the anti's have been waiting for. Say goodbye to most semi-automatic handguns.

CavTrooper
08-17-2007, 5:02 PM
Hopefully, when they (manufactures) stop selling firearms to CA, it applies to LE as well.

Corbin Dallas
08-17-2007, 7:33 PM
No, I'm not worried.

The thiefs will just grind down the microstamp and bypass the laws. It will take another 10 years or more for our politicians to figure it out.

mblat
08-17-2007, 7:42 PM
Hopefully, when they (manufactures) stop selling firearms to CA, it applies to LE as well.

LE would be exempt.....

Outlaw Josey Wales
08-18-2007, 8:16 AM
No, I'm not worried.

The thiefs will just grind down the microstamp and bypass the laws. It will take another 10 years or more for our politicians to figure it out.

Crime prevention is just the excuse, banning or reducing the availability of another type of firearm is the true intent.

Esteemed US Senator Ted Kennedy is planning on introducing a federal version of microstamping legislation.

chris
08-18-2007, 3:51 PM
people better get off your butts or we will lose again!!!! when the time is right to act we ALLL better act and tell those legislators in sacramento to dump this bill. this is no time for complancency on anyone's part!

glockman19
08-18-2007, 5:02 PM
LE would be exempt.....

I spoke with Glock Legal Council on Friday. They will NOT sell any new handguns to LEO if the bill is signed into law I also have called S&W & Beretta.

Let them carry Rossi's & Taurus's or some other crap gun. Fact is Guns on the DOJ list are already exempt. only NEW guns.

ljg17
08-18-2007, 11:04 PM
This microstamping should be used for five years on LEO guns only to study it's effectiveness before imposing it on the rest of us.

DrjonesUSA
08-19-2007, 3:56 PM
I spoke with Glock Legal Council on Friday. They will NOT sell any new handguns to LEO if the bill is signed into law I also have called S&W & Beretta.



Wow. What did S&W & Beretta say?

Who did you speak with? Has Glock submitted letters or otherwise made their position publicly known?

Can you please give me the contact info of whoever you spoke with so that I can ask them these questions?

Something like this would be HUGE in helping defeat this bill.

Please PM or email me immediately.

Thank you,
Drjones

MrTuffPaws
08-19-2007, 4:05 PM
This microstamping should be used for five years on LEO guns only to study it's effectiveness before imposing it on the rest of us.

Wow, that would be awesome. Best idea I have heard all day.

CALI-gula
08-19-2007, 4:10 PM
I spoke with Glock Legal Council on Friday. They will NOT sell any new handguns to LEO if the bill is signed into law I also have called S&W & Beretta.

Let them carry Rossi's & Taurus's or some other crap gun. Fact is Guns on the DOJ list are already exempt. only NEW guns.

That may be what Glock told you for lip-service and saving face, but you can bet they will eventually capitulate. They may have an immediate recoil and revulsion to this bill, but in reality, I can bet Gaston would likely be the first to urge to cater TO this or any law that might come from this bill if passed.

The "here we are today" attitude is to get you to buy today, and they wouldn't show their true colors until after such a bill is passed, and then, with the law in place, the likley spin-doctor answer will be;

"Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do, and we must try to do our best to meet our customers needs within the contruct of the law, while seeing to it that American citizens still have access to their 2nd Amendment Rights, thus all of our current models will also be available in the form of a special CA model option, to include microstamping. We are only doing this to be sure you can continue to enjoy your freedoms and that Glock is the vehicle for you to do so. "

How's that sound? :rolleyes:
.

MedSpec65
08-19-2007, 4:13 PM
2009 will be a good year for anybody with a FFL..

Smokin
08-19-2007, 9:36 PM
Damn this state to hell. Im moving back to TX asap

jjperl
08-21-2007, 8:12 AM
any update on this bs?

SJshooter
08-21-2007, 8:59 AM
Here is a link to contact info for all of the state Senators. Find yours and at least email them!!!

http://www.sen.ca.gov/~newsen/senators/senators.htp

Outlaw Josey Wales
08-21-2007, 9:37 AM
Wow. What did S&W & Beretta say?

Who did you speak with? Has Glock submitted letters or otherwise made their position publicly known?

Can you please give me the contact info of whoever you spoke with so that I can ask them these questions?

Something like this would be HUGE in helping defeat this bill.

Please PM or email me immediately.

Thank you,
Drjones

Not long ago the newsletter published by Gun Owners of California had copies of actual letters from several major gun companies, sent to CA legislators, regarding their views on microstamping. Maybe somebody can scan the article and post it here.

Prc329
08-21-2007, 9:47 AM
Sent my opposition email and phone call.

bwiese
08-21-2007, 9:52 AM
I predict many 22Short single-shot pistols with 6" or longer bbls will be sold in the future if this passes.

EastBayRidge
08-21-2007, 10:12 AM
Expect a run on jewelers' files at Home Depot and Ace Hardware... of course, those will banned next.

Corbin Dallas
08-21-2007, 10:14 AM
Sent my message to Senator Kehoe

Exiledviking
08-21-2007, 10:16 AM
Sent an email. Also included a link in that email to the failed fired casing BS that Maryland ran.

http://www.ocshooters.com/Reports/cobis/ibis.pdf

stevie
08-22-2007, 9:34 AM
So does this mean it going to be reviewed today?

CURRENT BILL STATUS


MEASURE : A.B. No. 1471
AUTHOR(S) : Feuer (Principal coauthor: DeSaulnier) (Coauthors:
Senators Cedillo, Perata, Romero, and Scott).
TOPIC : Firearms: microstamping.
HOUSE LOCATION : SEN
+LAST AMENDED DATE : 07/11/2007


TYPE OF BILL :
Active
Non-Urgency
Non-Appropriations
Majority Vote Required
State-Mandated Local Program
Fiscal
Non-Tax Levy

LAST HIST. ACT. DATE: 07/18/2007
LAST HIST. ACTION : Read second time. To third reading.
FILE : SEN THIRD READING
FILE DATE : 08/22/2007
ITEM : 200


TITLE : An act to amend Section 12126 of the Penal Code,
relating to firearms.

glockman19
08-22-2007, 9:42 AM
So does this mean it going to be reviewed today?

Yesterday the date of filing was 8/21/2007. They continue to try and force it on the calander.

Mnort10x
08-22-2007, 11:54 PM
12091. Possession of any pistol or revolver upon which the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's number or other mark of identification has been changed, altered, removed, or obliterated, shall be presumptive evidence that the possessor has changed, altered, removed, or obliterated the same.

Anyone see a problem with AB1471 and this part of Penal Code?

Wear and tear will put you in jeopardy of some jail time. (SEE Penal Code 12090) :eek:

"(7) Commencing January 1, 2010, for all semiautomatic pistols that
are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it
is not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters
that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol,
etched or otherwise imprinted in two or more places on the interior
surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and that are
transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm is
fired, provided that the Department of Justice certifies that the
technology used to create the imprint is available to more than one
manufacturer unencumbered by any patent restrictions. The Attorney
General may also approve a method of equal or greater reliability and
effectiveness in identifying the specific serial number of a firearm
from spent cartridge casings discharged by that firearm than that
which is set forth in this paragraph, to be thereafter required as
otherwise set forth by this paragraph where the Attorney General
certifies that this new method is also unencumbered by any patent
restrictions. Approval by the Attorney General shall include notice
of that fact via regulations adopted by the Attorney General for
purposes of implementing that method for purposes of this paragraph.
The microscopic array of characters required by this section
shall not be considered the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's
number, or other mark of identification, including any distinguishing
number or mark assigned by the Department of Justice, within the
meaning of Sections 12090 and 12094."

They skipped reference to 12091

Prc329
08-22-2007, 11:57 PM
I've been saying that for months. Replacing a broken firing pin will make you a felon. Either that or it will be so expensive the gun will become a paperweight.

Mnort10x
08-23-2007, 12:06 AM
I've been saying that for months. Replacing a broken firing pin will make you a felon. Either that or it will be so expensive the gun will become a paperweight.

I know, I just want people to see it again. Maybe It will register in peoples minds and get them to call/email Sacramento before they pass this @$%&!:)

Wulf
08-23-2007, 8:39 AM
Is the "presumptive evidence" associated with obliteration of the stamp still part of the bill. Need to know for a letter to the editor I'm writing.


12091. Possession of any pistol or revolver upon which the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's number or other mark of identification has been changed, altered, removed, or obliterated, shall be presumptive evidence that the possessor has changed, altered, removed, or obliterated the same.

Anyone see a problem with AB1471 and this part of Penal Code?

Wear and tear will put you in jeopardy of some jail time. (SEE Penal Code 12090) :eek:

"(7) Commencing January 1, 2010, for all semiautomatic pistols that
are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it
is not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters
that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol,
etched or otherwise imprinted in two or more places on the interior
surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and that are
transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm is
fired, provided that the Department of Justice certifies that the
technology used to create the imprint is available to more than one
manufacturer unencumbered by any patent restrictions. The Attorney
General may also approve a method of equal or greater reliability and
effectiveness in identifying the specific serial number of a firearm
from spent cartridge casings discharged by that firearm than that
which is set forth in this paragraph, to be thereafter required as
otherwise set forth by this paragraph where the Attorney General
certifies that this new method is also unencumbered by any patent
restrictions. Approval by the Attorney General shall include notice
of that fact via regulations adopted by the Attorney General for
purposes of implementing that method for purposes of this paragraph.
The microscopic array of characters required by this section
shall not be considered the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's
number, or other mark of identification, including any distinguishing
number or mark assigned by the Department of Justice, within the
meaning of Sections 12090 and 12094."

They skipped reference to 12091

Anthonysmanifesto
08-23-2007, 9:26 AM
Is the "presumptive evidence" associated with obliteration of the stamp still part of the bill. Need to know for a letter to the editor I'm writing.

I cant cite it right now, but it pretty much mirrors existing federal law.

whether or not this could be used to prosecute for the obliteration of a microstamp is of grave concern.

the authors have not accepted amendments to clarify.

Wulf
08-23-2007, 9:31 AM
Thanks.

I'll go with it for purposes of the letter I'm writing.

kap
08-23-2007, 9:51 AM
How would one know if a microstamp was obliterated? They are "micro" after all.

Anthonysmanifesto
08-23-2007, 10:12 AM
How would one know if a microstamp was obliterated? They are "micro" after all.

a micro-obliteration detector?

mcubed4130
08-23-2007, 10:19 AM
How would this affect C&R Handguns?

-M3

Prc329
08-23-2007, 10:24 AM
How would one know if a microstamp was obliterated? They are "micro" after all.

When they try to read it after they picked up casings left at a crime scene a criminal dropped after he picked them up when you went to the range. Then you are cleared of the crime by a rock solid alibi but then you get charged for "removing" the microstamp.

Wulf
08-23-2007, 10:40 AM
a micro-obliteration detector?

Does that come in a high capacity 45 model that conceals easily?

rbgaynor
08-23-2007, 11:01 AM
How would this affect C&R Handguns?

-M3

They are, I believe, exempted from the list and drop testing requirements.

mcubed4130
08-23-2007, 11:26 AM
They are, I believe, exempted from the list and drop testing requirements.

Well... if C&R Handguns are exempt... I think we are going to see a TON of new 1911A1's purchased, that were made before 1957. :D Assuming this monster passes into law.

-M3

virulosity
08-23-2007, 11:36 AM
won't microstamping put all those forensic investigators out of work?

tango-52
08-23-2007, 11:58 AM
How would this affect C&R Handguns?

-M3This proposed legislation on applies to new guns sold starting in 2010. They can't make it be retroactive.

mcubed4130
08-23-2007, 2:11 PM
This proposed legislation on applies to new guns sold starting in 2010. They can't make it be retroactive.

Well that may be true... but the legislation says, you can not sell, transfer, manufacture - a gun that is not microstamped.

Therefore this implies to me...

1. You now have no commerce for existing handguns inside CA.

2. That manufacturers, retailers, etc... will be leary or outright refuse, to ship replacement parts into California, as they will have to worry, if they are selling to someone with a Microstamped Gun, getting non-microstamped parts. As was stated earlier, a broken firing pin, could become a very tough animal to get, unless it's for a handgun that is no longer in production, and you have a retailer with some ability to take the risk of the sale to CA.

-M3

kap
08-23-2007, 3:08 PM
You are ignoring this part ...

Commencing January 1, 2010, for all semiautomatic pistols that
are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131

If it is listed on the "Not unsafe" list it is good to go.

Californio
08-23-2007, 4:16 PM
I just hit the Cal NRA one click again and its still working - just to refresh the boys/girls in Sacramento.

Exiledviking
08-23-2007, 4:50 PM
You are ignoring this part ...

Commencing January 1, 2010, for all semiautomatic pistols that
are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131

If it is listed on the "Not unsafe" list it is good to go.


"are not already listed on the roster"

Does this mean that we won't be able to sell/buy guns that are not on the roster???

:mad:


How many more guns are gonna get added to the roster by then? How many will fall off? :rolleyes:

We need to fight this as hard as we can. I am glad to see that my California State Senator is on our side. Here is my email to him and his response:

"Mr. McClintock,


Please look at this bill for what it really is. It is just another way to
eliminate handgun sales in California.
The state of Maryland ran a similar program for roughly 4 years and
found that this did not help in any crime investigation during that time.
The Maryland State Police has recommended that the program be suspended.
http://www.ocshooters.com/Reports/cobis/ibis.pdf

The microstamping is just another step towards the total ban of handgun
sales in the state of California.

Thank you for your time.


Sincerely,

John"


Dear John,

Thank you for your e-mail. I oppose all bills that harm our Second
Amendment rights.

Take care,

Tom (McClintock)

SJshooter
08-23-2007, 6:00 PM
Here is a link to contact info for all of the state Senators. Find yours and at least email them!!!

http://www.sen.ca.gov/~newsen/senators/senators.htp

PS -- there is no law that says you can't call or email TWICE! :43:

jjperl
08-23-2007, 11:11 PM
+1 on that

Exiledviking
08-26-2007, 10:54 AM
Does this mean that if this passes we won't be able to sell/buy guns that are not on the roster(PPT)???