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View Full Version : Obama can ban assault weapons himself?


211275
12-24-2012, 7:07 PM
Obama doesnt need a bill or votes from congress to ban certain assault weapons looks like. The AR, AK and other guns not on the shelfs right now could be gone for a long time...From a WSJ article today.

"Mr. Obama has administrative powers under a 1968 law to ban the import of certain assault weapons. In 1989, former President George H.W. Bush used that law in issuing an executive order to ban the importation of assault weapons not used for sport. His action was superseded by congressional passage of a 10-year ban on assault weapons in 1994.The importation of assault weapons could be "cut off tomorrow," said Kristen Rand, legislative director for the Violence Policy Center, which backs tighter gun controls. "We argue that is the single most important thing they could do under their administrative authority."

vintagearms
12-24-2012, 7:10 PM
Key word "import". That wont effect any of the domestic producers like Stag, LaRue, Colt, etc.

oldsmoboat
12-24-2012, 7:13 PM
Define assault weapon

CaliforniaLiberal
12-24-2012, 7:15 PM
Define assault weapon


A scary looking rifle that they don't like.

GREASY357
12-24-2012, 7:17 PM
Define assault weapon

Please.

Merkava_4
12-24-2012, 7:21 PM
Define assault weapon

The democrats think the one in your avatar is an assault weapon.

Write Winger
12-24-2012, 7:21 PM
Goodbye Saigas

Munk
12-24-2012, 7:23 PM
The democrats think the one in your avatar is an assault weapon.

Has nothing to do with Democrat or Republican. People who are ignorant of the way guns work will always point to something scary looking and think it's something it's not.

Merkava_4
12-24-2012, 7:24 PM
Has nothing to do with Democrat or Republican.

Isn't Dianne Feinstein a Democrat?

SilverTauron
12-24-2012, 7:25 PM
The forces against us are formidable enough without us inventing more threats to our rights. Bush's executive order is why imported rifles had to meet a 922r US parts content standard.

00Medic
12-24-2012, 7:27 PM
Goodbye Saigas

Hello American made versions. :)


Still. ANY ban is unacceptable.

elSquid
12-24-2012, 7:44 PM
Hello American made versions. :)


Bingo. Inexpensive foreign firearms have prevented the domestic market from gaining traction, but if all AK pattern rifles are banned from import that'll change very quickly.

Thanks to 922(r) a fair number of parts are made domestically. All we need are... trunions, bolt carriers and bolts...? Heck, milled AKs might enjoy a resurgence!

If imports dry up, within 5 years I predict the appearance of the Ruger SR-762 - a stainless AK. ;)

-- Michael

Gunsmith Dan
12-24-2012, 8:27 PM
One thing you guys forgot about .... the law regarding how any item is defined as a import.

If less than 51% of the parts on a weapon is made anywhere outside the USA then it is considered a import even if assembled here in the USA. If the raw materials are shipped here and the part produced here (like what Toyota and Honda does with plants in the US) then it would not be a imported firearm.

That means any stamped or forged parts, hand grips, sights etc. made in China, Europe or heck even Canada or Mexico and 49% or more are on the firearm it is a import.

With that in mind guess how many "domestic" weapons would now be classified as an import.

Garand1911
12-24-2012, 8:47 PM
i could see ****bag obammer banning ALL IMPORTS, even those mosins.

bodger
12-24-2012, 8:48 PM
Define assault weapon

A scary looking rifle that they don't like.

Seems easy these days for the antis. Any firearm.

robertmcm
12-24-2012, 8:55 PM
All the AKs and such that are imported are not assault weapons. They are all 10 round capacity guns, with whatever is required to not be on there. They come here and are milled out to accept hi caps, and enough parts are changed to make the gun compliant under current law. We can thank George Bush 1 for this.

madjack956
12-24-2012, 9:05 PM
Goodbye Saigas

That would be a shame. i have one and i really like it. Built well, looks itchin':D

nothinghere2c
12-24-2012, 9:07 PM
he can't but i'm sure he will try

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/obama-wins-reelection-memes.jpg

zfields
12-24-2012, 9:08 PM
Bingo. Inexpensive foreign firearms have prevented the domestic market from gaining traction, but if all AK pattern rifles are banned from import that'll change very quickly.

Thanks to 922(r) a fair number of parts are made domestically. All we need are... trunions, bolt carriers and bolts...? Heck, milled AKs might enjoy a resurgence!

If imports dry up, within 5 years I predict the appearance of the Ruger SR-762 - a stainless AK. ;)

-- Michael

I don't trust Americans to make aks. Case in point, I.O.

Sent from my Incredible 2

Meplat
12-24-2012, 9:12 PM
Define assault weapon

Assault Weapon is a legal term meaning ‘scary gun’.

jbatzmaru
12-24-2012, 9:24 PM
I don't trust Americans to make aks. Case in point, I.O.

Sent from my Incredible 2

so true...

ClarenceBoddicker
12-24-2012, 11:02 PM
George HW Bush did not use an Executive Order in 1989 to ban the importation of military pattern semi-auto long guns. He simply ordered the ATF, which is controlled by the executive branch, to "reinterpret" the "sporting" use clause for firearms in the NRA sanctioned 1968 Gun Control Act, which caused the once "sporting" weapons like the AKS-47 to become "unsporting" overnight. The MAK-90 (Modified AK 1990) was then born & later 922R was passed to keep the Bill Ruger types happy.

If you don't believe me about the EO's check here:

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/1989-bush.html

Most people on here don't understand that due to the change of the legal definition of what a machine gun is under Federal law, in the NRA sanctioned 1968 Gun Control Act, the ATF has the authority to "reclassify" all semi-auto & manual repeating firearms as machine guns under the "readily restoreable" clause. ATF has been given broad leeway by the courts when it comes to applying their "expert opinion" to firearms laws. Currently AR-15 semi-auto firearms can easily be "converted" to "full-auto" by installing a few M-16 fire control parts with no modifications to the lower receiver or any other parts of the weapon. A 2 shot slam fire & a jam following the 2nd round fire meets the ATF's definition of a machine gun. Yes, the courts have upheld that. AK's can be "converted" even easier by tying a cord around the bolt carrier & sear. No modification to the receiver or weapon required. Many blowback firearms can be "converted" by simply shimming or gluing the firing pin to the forward position & removing the sear. Due to the NRA sanctioned 1986 FOPA, any firearms "reclassified" as a machine gun post 5/19/1986 would become instant contraband. At best the SCOTUS would order the ATF to enact a very short tax free amnesty to register all the new "machine guns". Of course registrations would only be approved in the 33 states that allow normal taxpayers to own machine guns.

Here's some info about the landmark 1982 RPB vs ATF case that has given ATF carte blanche to label weapons into "readily restoreable" machine guns:

http://www.constitution.org/2ll/bardwell/rpb_v_secretary.txt

A deposition video for RPB was made by Max Atchisson showing how easy it is to convert many weapons to full auto. This was in 1982 when it was legal for normal taxpayers to make a machine gun on an approved Form 1 with a $200 making tax.

jamesob
12-24-2012, 11:26 PM
What ar15 lower would accept m16 fcg without modifying the lower? And Im talking about the full m16 setup and not just the hammer,trigger and disconnector. George HW Bush did not use an Executive Order in 1989 to ban the importation of military pattern semi-auto long guns. He simply ordered the ATF, which is controlled by the executive branch, to "reinterpret" the "sporting" use clause for firearms in the NRA sanctioned 1968 Gun Control Act, which caused the once "sporting" weapons like the AKS-47 to become "unsporting" overnight. The MAK-90 (Modified AK 1990) was then born & later 922R was passed to keep the Bill Ruger types happy.

If you don't believe me about the EO's check here:

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/1989-bush.html

Most people on here don't understand that due to the change of the legal definition of what a machine gun is under Federal law, in the NRA sanctioned 1968 Gun Control Act, the ATF has the authority to "reclassify" all semi-auto & manual repeating firearms as machine guns under the "readily restoreable" clause. ATF has been given broad leeway by the courts when it comes to applying their "expert opinion" to firearms laws. Currently AR-15 semi-auto firearms can easily be "converted" to "full-auto" by installing a few M-16 fire control parts with no modifications to the lower receiver or any other parts of the weapon. A 2 shot slam fire & a jam following the 2nd round fire meets the ATF's definition of a machine gun. Yes, the courts have upheld that. AK's can be "converted" even easier by tying a cord around the bolt carrier & sear. No modification to the receiver or weapon required. Many blowback firearms can be "converted" by simply shimming or gluing the firing pin to the forward position & removing the sear. Due to the NRA sanctioned 1986 FOPA, any firearms "reclassified" as a machine gun post 5/19/1986 would become instant contraband. At best the SCOTUS would order the ATF to enact a very short tax free amnesty to register all the new "machine guns". Of course registrations would only be approved in the 33 states that allow normal taxpayers to own machine guns.

Here's some info about the landmark 1982 RPB vs ATF case that has given ATF carte blanche to label weapons into "readily restoreable" machine guns:

http://www.constitution.org/2ll/bardwell/rpb_v_secretary.txt

A deposition video for RPB was made by Max Atchisson showing how easy it is to convert many weapons to full auto. This was in 1982 when it was legal for normal taxpayers to make a machine gun on an approved Form 1 with a $200 making tax.

ClarenceBoddicker
12-25-2012, 12:01 AM
What ar15 lower would accept m16 fcg without modifying the lower? And Im talking about the full m16 setup and not just the hammer,trigger and disconnector.

You don't need all of the 5 M-16 fire control parts to "convert" an AR-15 to what the ATF calls a machine gun. A selector switch is not needed, just as it's not needed in an AK for both semi-auto & full-auto fire. Drilling holes or slotting rails is not required either. Read about the AR-15 with M-16 fire control parts on the ATF's website or elsewhere. It's pretty common knowledge just like the DIAS & LL for the AR-15 is. I'm not going to post exact instructions on how to convert weapons. Remember that the legal definition of a machine gun has nothing to do with practicality or reliable functioning. Just 2 or more shots with one pull of the trigger is all it takes. The ATF has ruled a cardboard toilet paper roll tube stuffed with wadded up toilet paper to be a suppressor/silencer & the courts have upheld it.

AlexDD
12-25-2012, 12:15 AM
I'd rather not give any ideas, even if outlandish or improbable, to the Feds and/or state how to screw us over in non NFA states.

NoHeavyHitter
12-25-2012, 12:16 AM
The importation of assault weapons could be "cut off tomorrow," said Kristen Rand, legislative director for the Violence Policy Center, which backs tighter gun controls. "We argue that is the single most important thing they could do under their administrative authority."

The importation of non-sporting rifles was stopped by the BATFE a long time ago. The guns on the shelves of gun stores that "look" like foreign military weapons were imported as sporting arms and it was companies in the U.S. that use a mix of American-made parts to re-build these guns into guns that are cosmetically similar to things like AK-47's and such...

Why on earth would anyone go through all the trouble to make a sporting arm look like a military arm? Simple - it's what people want and they have money they are willing to spend. In fact, it's somewhat astounding that in our current state of economy, people are spending HUGE amounts of money on such firearms!

Is there any other industry that's matched the performance of the firearms companies in the U.S.?

...ok :facepalm: - I'm willing to concede that ammunition makers are doing pretty well too.

bloodhawke83
12-25-2012, 12:24 AM
Hello American made versions. :)


Still. ANY ban is unacceptable.

They can ban glocks. :43:

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

EricSF
12-25-2012, 1:55 AM
Glocks are now made both in Austria AND Georgia (Gen 3s & 4s)

press1280
12-25-2012, 2:16 AM
The "sporting" requirement would seem to be somewhat irrelevant now that self-defense has been recognized as a component of the 2A.

lilro
12-25-2012, 2:52 AM
They just weren't happen with the run on ARs. Now there's gonna be a run on AKs. Get your 7.62x39 while you can, boys.

amd64
12-25-2012, 9:36 AM
George HW Bush did not use an Executive Order in 1989 to ban the importation of military pattern semi-auto long guns. He simply ordered the ATF, which is controlled by the executive branch, to "reinterpret" the "sporting" use clause for firearms in the NRA sanctioned 1968 Gun Control Act, which caused the once "sporting" weapons like the AKS-47 to become "unsporting" overnight. The MAK-90 (Modified AK 1990) was then born & later 922R was passed to keep the Bill Ruger types happy.


Great post. The Chinese supply was cutoff in the 1990s too. I think that was done using trade agreements.

Buy all the imported stuff you'll ever want or need while you can.

Munk
12-25-2012, 10:37 AM
Isn't Dianne Feinstein a Democrat?

Fear mongering and stupidity transcend political affiliation.

Scott Connors
12-25-2012, 12:02 PM
[QUOTE=00Medic;10008983]Hello American made versions. :)


See? Obama is bringing back jobs to the US! :santa:

EL_NinO619
12-25-2012, 12:21 PM
Has nothing to do with Democrat or Republican. People who are ignorant of the way guns work will always point to something scary looking and think it's something it's not.

Oh it has everything to do with the Democrats, let's not even try to say its not. Those times of D acting like wolfs in sheep's clothing is over. Now they are just out in the open about it, you know "never let a tragedy go to waste." I still can not comprehend how anyone can vote for 99.9% of the Democrats knowing how they are and yet you still call yourself a believer in the 2nd amendment. Until that party changes its way of being anti-gun (which Libs that infiltrate that party won't) if you vote Democrat, you support the anti-gun movement. Period. Sorry if I offend anyone but that's how I feel. :oji:

gazzavc
12-25-2012, 12:32 PM
There is also the law of unintended consequences to think about.

Lets just say that they "ban" all possession of semi auto weapons. Turn them in, confiscation, mandatory buy back, whatever......

Under federal law the penalties would probably be the same as illegal possession of a machine gun, with all the fun that goes along with it.

Do they realise how many MG parts kits are out there and have been sold , traded, put away over the last 30 years ?

If the penalties for owning a semi are the same as a full auto , folks are just going to say "sod it" and build or convert their existing semi into full and keep them hidden for when they are needed.


I know it seems a bit far fetched right now, but it could play out down the road ??

rsrocket1
12-25-2012, 12:55 PM
If the penalties for owning a semi are the same as a full auto , folks are just going to say "sold it" and build or convert their existing semi into full and keep them hidden for when they are needed.


I know it seems a bit far fetched right now, but it could play out down the road ??

Now can you see where laws like these (http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/Bills/SB_1366/20112012/) can turn you into a criminal?

SB 1366 (DeSaulnier) Firearms: lost or stolen: reports.
This bill would require every person, with exceptions, to report the theft or loss of a firearm he or she owns or possesses to a local law enforcement agency in the jurisdiction in which the theft or loss occurred within 48 hours of the time he or she knew or reasonably should have known that the firearm had been stolen or lost, and requires every person who has reported a firearm lost or stolen to notify the local law enforcement agency within 48 hours if the firearm is subsequently recovered.

vintagedude88
12-25-2012, 1:06 PM
They just weren't happen with the run on ARs. Now there's gonna be a run on AKs. Get your 7.62x39 while you can, boys.

The AKs were long gone at my LGS way before the ARs. I wouldn't be surprised if someone sells a WASR for more than what the ARs are selling for on GB.

a1rfreshener
12-25-2012, 1:13 PM
as humans go.... we fear or miss label things we dont understand.....all we can do is educate one another,and as the popularity of shooting has been over the last few years shouldnt be a problem...

scarville
12-25-2012, 2:36 PM
Glocks are now made both in Austria AND Georgia (Gen 3s & 4s)

The tennifer coating cannot be done in the US because of EPA regulations about arsenic. He could make it impossible to assemble a "true" Glock by blocking imports of the slides.

zfields
12-25-2012, 3:21 PM
The tennifer coating cannot be done in the US because of EPA regulations about arsenic. He could make it impossible to assemble a "true" Glock by blocking imports of the slides.

They are doing a similar coating in the us on glocks now. That's why you heat a lot of people complaining about the new greyish color .

Sent from my Incredible 2

a1c
12-25-2012, 3:30 PM
This would be a total game changer.

http://www.therichest.org/celebnetworth/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Will-Hayden.jpg

scarville
12-25-2012, 4:19 PM
They are doing a similar coating in the us on glocks now. That's why you heat a lot of people complaining about the new greyish color .

I don't follow Glock news very closely so I didn't know about that. Thank you.

ClarenceBoddicker
12-25-2012, 5:07 PM
Great post. The Chinese supply was cutoff in the 1990s too. I think that was done using trade agreements.

Buy all the imported stuff you'll ever want or need while you can.

Yes, Clinton bribed the Chinese to accept a Voluntary Restraint Agreement (VRA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_export_restraints)) which banned the importation of most ("sporting" shotguns & ammo OK to import) firearms in order to be awarded Most Favored Nation (MFN) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_favoured_nation) trade status in 1994, which has greatly harmed many US businesses & manufacturers due to the proliferation of Chinese crap imported since. Clinton also bribed the Russian Federation to accept a VRA in 1998, which banned many firearms from being imported even C&Rs such as SVT-40s & SVDs.

It's sad that so many taxpayers on here don't realize how dangerous the NRA sanctioned GCA of 1968 really is to the 2A. The "sporting" clause is broad enough to ban the importation of almost all firearms & ammo. Anybody who believes the SCOTUS would rescind any part of the GCA after 45 years is delusional, IMO. Most Americans would not raise a stink if a GCA 2.0 was passed preventing domestic manufactures from building non "sporting" firearms for sales to normal taxpayers. Remember that the executive branch controls the ATF who licenses all firearms dealers & manufactures. The SCOTUS has upheld the plainly unconstitutional NFA firearms taxation & registration scheme. I'm sure the SCOTUS would not bat an eye if all semi-auto firearms were reclassified as NFA weapons & the making/transfer tax increased by a few zeros. Under current SCOTUS firearms taxation precedent, dealers & manufacturers could be taxed out of business. Look what the tobacco companies agreed to. Tobacco is big business unlike firearms made for normal taxpayers.

Another very powerful anti-2A weapon the executive branch has at it's disposal is the AECA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_Export_Control_Act)/ITAR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traffic_in_Arms_Regulations)/USML (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Munitions_List) from 1976. IIRC the POTUS can amend the USML at will via EOs. I'm still at a loss why the NRA did not push for any anti-2A Federal laws like the NFA & GCA to be rescinded or at least heavily amended during W Bush's term when the GOP controlled the Congress.