PDA

View Full Version : Trunk guns illegal in Palo Alto?


maxicon
08-16-2007, 12:02 PM
Just a heads-up on NorCal legalities - I was checking out the Palo Alto website, since there's been some small fuss over the recent redesign, and followed a link to the PA Municipal Codes.

Turns out trunk guns are illegal under city-specific codes. Of course, it's also illegal to carry a Nerf gun in your car under the same code...

http://nt2.scbbs.com/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientID=104457508&infobase=procode-3&softpage=Browse_Frame_Pg

(Title 9 PUBLIC PEACE, MORALS AND SAFETY; Chapter 9.08 GUNS AND EXPLOSIVES)

9.08.010 Firing and possession of guns and firearms.

Except as otherwise provided in this chapter no person shall have in his possession within this city, and no person shall fire or discharge, or cause to be fired or discharged within this city, nor shall any parent, guardian or person having the care, custody or control of any minor permit such minor to have in his possession within this city, or to fire or discharge or cause to be fired or discharged within the city, any firearm, cannon, fireworks, gun, pistol, revolver, anvil, firecracker or explosive of similar nature, rifle, air rifle, air-gun, BB gun or pellet gun or any instrument of any kind, character or description which throws or projects bullets or missiles of any kind to any distance by means of elastic force, air or any explosive substance, all referred to in this section as "firearms."
(Ord. 1720 (part), 1956: prior code § 8.01)

9.08.020 Exceptions.

(a)The provisions of Section 9.08.010 as to the use of any of the firearms mentioned therein shall not apply to any of the following cases:
(1)To police, peace officers or persons in military service in the discharge of their duties and using reasonable care;
(2)To persons using firearms in necessary self-defense;
(3)To the possession of such firearms for keeping at the place of residence or business of the person otherwise in lawful possession thereof, or while traveling to or from a legal firing, shooting or target range or hunting ground;
(4)To the discharging or firing of such firearms or causing them to be discharged or fired at a legal firing, shooting or target range or hunting ground;
(5)To the discharging or firing of fireworks after permit therefor has been issued by the fire chief;
(6)To the use of a gun firing .22 caliber shot-cartridge only, upon a written permit applied for and granted by the chief of police to protect life or property against animals, birds or rodents;
(7)To the discharging or firing of a pistol incapable of projecting any bullet or missile (a) for the sole purpose of starting an organized athletic event, by an official who has charge of the competitors at the start of the athletic event; or (b) for use as a theater prop in a bona fide theatrical production.
(Ord. 2936 § 1, 1976: Ord. 2142 (part), 1963: Ord. 1720 (part), 1956: prior code § 8.02)

bwiese
08-16-2007, 12:36 PM
I'll let the boys at T-M know...

That's most likely illegal and covered under preemption.

Anyone driving thru PA and otherwise legal everywhere else (realistically, since major traffic routes flow thru PA) would be subject to this nonsense - and the goal of preemption was for unified standard across CA.

[You'll note, as a contrast, that SF's attempted handgun ban expressly applied only to SF residents in an attempt to get around preemption.]

maxicon
08-16-2007, 2:15 PM
(2)To persons using firearms in necessary self-defense

wouldn't that be legal.your trunk gun is a measure of self defense

I think they're referring to someone actually using it, as in firing or discharging it, rather than carrying or transporting it.

Thanks for passing it on, Bill. That didn't occur to me, but is the right approach. Everybody should be taking a look at their local ordinances, to avoid the risk of legal nightmares.

fun2none
08-16-2007, 3:25 PM
If I remember correctly, didn't Shallow Alto also have their own version of an assault weapon ban which got rescinded due to state preemption laws ?

They have a very broad definition of firearm which would include devices such as :
http://flyingtoystore.com/images/products/air_rocket_medium.jpg

johnny_22
08-16-2007, 4:34 PM
Take a look at:

http://municipalcodes.lexisnexis.com/

oaklander
08-16-2007, 4:49 PM
Assisted opening knives appear to be illegal in Oakland (as well as any knife with a blade more than 3 inches long):

Article I Dangerous Weapons

9.36.010 Dangerous weapon defined.
As used in this article, “dangerous weapon” means and includes, but is not limited to:
A. Any knife having a blade three inches or more in length, or any snap-blade or spring-blade knife regardless of the length of the blade;
B. Any ice pick or similar sharp stabbing tool;
C. Any straight edge razor or any razor blade fitted to a handle;
D. Any cutting, stabbing or bludgeoning weapon or device capable of inflicting grievous bodily harm;
E. Any dirk or dagger or bludgeon. (Prior code § 2 7.01)

9.36.020 Carrying dangerous weapon.
It is unlawful for any person to carry upon his or her person or to have in his or her possession or under his or her control any dangerous weapon; provided that it shall be a defense to any prosecution for a violation of this section if, at the time of the alleged violation, the instrument or device alleged to be a dangerous weapon was in good faith carried upon the person of the accused or was in good faith in his or her possession or control for use in his or her lawful occupation or employment or for the purpose of lawful recreation; and provided, further, that the provisions of this section shall not apply to the commission of any act which is made a public offense by any law of this state. (Prior code § 2 7.02)

9.36.030 Disorderly conduct.
It is unlawful for any person who has upon his or her person or in his or her possession or control any dangerous weapon to engage in any fight or participate in any rough or disorderly conduct upon any public place or way or upon the premises of another. (Prior code § 2 7.03)

9.36.040 Sale, transfer or possession of spring-blade, switch-blade, snap-blade, or other similar type knives prohibited.
Notwithstanding any provisions in this article to the contrary, no person shall sell, offer for sale, expose for sale, keep, carry, possess, loan, transfer, or give any other person any spring-blade, switch-blade, snap-blade, or other similar type knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device. (Prior code § 2 7.04)

Dont Tread on Me
08-16-2007, 5:35 PM
I was stopped a few weeks ago as a passenger in Palo Alto. I was in a Mustang with Virginia plates and a young driver (a summer intern). The cop said he stopped us because "you almost did not stop at that stop sign." Exact quote. He then went on to ask what we were doing in the city etc.

I'm relaying this as that particular PAPD officer clearly believed he had the right to stop and harass us and find out what we were doing.

Liberty1
08-16-2007, 6:27 PM
I was stopped a few weeks ago as a passenger in Palo Alto. I was in a Mustang with Virginia plates and a young driver (a summer intern). The cop said he stopped us because "you almost did not stop at that stop sign." Exact quote.

4th A. violation. The driver should file a complaint! And you're his witness.

Liberty1
08-16-2007, 6:30 PM
9.08.010 Firing and possession of guns and firearms.

Except as otherwise provided in this chapter no person shall have in his possession within this city...

Looks like a total ban on possession outlawing open carry and with no exemption for PC 12050 License to Carry holders. Or for police off duty...

Exceptions:

(a)The provisions of Section 9.08.010 as to the use of any of the firearms mentioned therein shall not apply to any of the following cases:
(1)To police, peace officers or persons in military service in the discharge of their duties...

CalNRA
08-16-2007, 7:09 PM
I smell a law suit.

CSDGuy
08-16-2007, 8:10 PM
I do not see any exemption for armed security guards either...

Technical Ted
08-16-2007, 8:18 PM
I do not see any exemption for armed security guards either...
This pretty much covers it:
(3)To the possession of such firearms for keeping at the place of residence or business of the person otherwise in lawful possession thereof,...

fairfaxjim
08-16-2007, 9:11 PM
or any instrument of any kind, character or description which throws or projects bullets or missiles of any kind to any distance by means of elastic force, air or any explosive substance, all referred to in this section as "firearms."

Sllingshots are firearms in Prissy Alto??

M. Sage
08-16-2007, 9:43 PM
Assisted opening knives appear to be illegal in Oakland (as well as any knife with a blade more than 3 inches long):

I'll ask about the spring-assisted, but IIRC, the spring-assisted don't count as "snap blade" or "spring blade."

Pvt. Cowboy
08-16-2007, 9:55 PM
fire or discharge or cause to be fired or discharged within the city, any firearm, cannon, fireworks, gun, pistol, revolver, anvil, firecracker or explosive of similar nature

In case some of you are wondering what the hell is the deal about 'anvils' in this clause, feel free to read up on 'anvil firing':

http://www.cannon-mania.com/anvil.htm

Evidently, Palo Alto had a real problem in the past with hayseeds horsing around with black powder and blasting anvils into the sky in the finest Appalachian tradition.

Technical Ted
08-16-2007, 10:00 PM
In case some of you are wondering what the hell is the deal about 'anvils' in this clause, feel free to read up on 'anvil firing':

http://www.cannon-mania.com/anvil.htm

Evidently, Palo Alto had a real problem in the past with hayseeds horsing around with black powder and blasting anvils into the sky in the finest Appalachian tradition.
San Jose muni code mentions anvils as well. I thought they had a coyote and road runner problem.

Pvt. Cowboy
08-16-2007, 11:08 PM
San Jose muni code mentions anvils as well. I thought they had a coyote and road runner problem.

Fortunately, as long as your anvil isn't specifically banned by name (e.g. 'ACME'), it is still lawful to construct an 'OLA'.

M. Sage
08-16-2007, 11:10 PM
San Jose muni code mentions anvils as well. I thought they had a coyote and road runner problem.

Anvils today, rocket-skates tomorrow. What's next, my gigantic spring?

Technical Ted
08-16-2007, 11:21 PM
Anvils today, rocket-skates tomorrow. What's next, my gigantic spring?
Just ban Acme products.

aplinker
08-17-2007, 3:06 AM
What's next, my gigantic spring?

But it walks down stairs, alone or in pairs. It's fun; it's a wonderful toy. It's fun for girls and boys.

artherd
08-17-2007, 3:52 AM
...any instrument of any kind, character or description which throws or projects bullets or missiles of any kind to any distance by means of elastic force, air or any explosive substance, all referred to in this section as "firearms."
This bans, amoungst others, construction nail guns and powder actuated nailers. I don't see any exemptions.

HUTCH 7.62
08-17-2007, 7:38 AM
A buddy of mine wrecked his 00 camero SS, in Palo Alto after spending the day at los Altos Gun and Rod. PAPD helped him remove the 20+ guns out of his trunk and no one ever said anything. In fact this law is news to me and I'm a PA resident

Liberty1
08-17-2007, 9:30 AM
A buddy of mine wrecked his 00 camero SS, in Palo Alto after spending the day at los Altos Gun and Rod. PAPD helped him remove the 20+ guns out of his trunk and no one ever said anything. In fact this law is news to me and I'm a PA resident

I almost never deal with my city's ordinances. Just penal code, vehicle code , and H&S (drugs). I'd be surprised if many of their officers know of it or decide to use it. Muni-codes are either infractions or misdemeanors and almost all real gun crimes can be charged as a felony in the PC. All the guns I've taken off the street have been either stollen or possessed by felons so a Muni code is the last thing I'd want to use (in addition to not believing in this law, Ahmmm, I mean use my discretion to advise and not arrest).

Parag
08-17-2007, 8:03 PM
How are you supposed to check the quality of your powder if you can't fire anvils? (BTW - it's cool when they come back down. It's fairly unusual to see something hit the ground that doesn't bounce.)

-- Parag