View Full Version : Unethical Cleansing..

08-16-2007, 7:35 AM
Caught this article over at GND.. Pretty disturbing how this State and the
Gov have waged a campaign against lawful FFL's and legal interstate
commerce..Especially here in Courrptfornia. >

WASHINGTON -- Tougher laws and stricter enforcement cost nearly 200,000 gun dealers their licenses since the mid-1990s, a new study shows.

Led by California -- the state with the steepest decline -- the number of federally licensed firearms dealers has fallen 79% nationwide since 1994. In that year, Congress adopted new gun-control measures that still spark fiery debate.

"The sharp drop in gun dealers is one of the most important, and little noticed, victories in the effort to reduce firearms violence in America," said Marty Langley, an analyst with the Violence Policy Center, a gun-control advocacy group funded by the Chicago-based Joyce Foundation.

The decline -- which includes many small-time dealers -- is undeniable. What it means is more controversial.

Bill Mayfield, a longtime Fresno gun dealer, said he believes federal regulators have been instructed to eliminate as many gun dealers as possible to make it easier to track gun owners.

"It looks good, but what they're doing is pursuing an anti-gun, anti-American point of view," Mayfield said.

Nationwide, 245,628 U.S. residents had the so-called Type 1 federal firearms licenses in 1994, compared with 50,630 now.

In California, there were 20,148 license holders in 1994. This year, there are 2,120 -- an 89% decline.
Be nice if the state and feds would go after illegals and child molesters with
the same zeal they use going after gun shops, FFL's and Mfg's..Messed up
priorities as far as I'm concerned.

08-16-2007, 7:54 AM
I think the big drop has a lot to do with thier attempts to stop "kitchen table" dealers. I wanted to get my FFL, but I ran into a roadblock because the ATF requires a place with "business hours" and my city won't let me sell firearms as a home business with "foot traffic". The city said that web and mail order sales are ok. I guess I could have fought it since they allow "foot traffic" to other home based businesses, but I just don't have the time to do it.
So, if you knock out all the guys that were selling out of thier homes, thats probably a big chunk right there.

08-16-2007, 8:31 AM
If they can't get in the front door with gun bans, they'll go in the back and attack the supply.

There is a concerted effort to shut down FFLs across the country, it is under the radar of the main stream media and should be more of a priority with the NRA. They are not shutting down kitchen table dealers, they are shutting down the biggest dealers in the country: Traders in San Leandro (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/04/03/MNGIKI2J9E27.DTL); Red's Trading Post in Idaho. (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56389)

This is not some blip. This should be common knowledge. This is an attack on legitimate dealers who won't kowtow to the BATFE and if they can shut down enough dealers then the only dealers left will be those who only stock single shot shotguns.

BATFE goes in with "minor paperwork violations" and for the next three or six months these shops get the full rubber glove treatment (try to keep a gun shop going with BATFE agents roosted in the shop). These are illegal takings under the Fifth Amendment. The government is targeting these dealers and shutting them down without just compensation. The appeals process is a joke.

We've all heard about the Cal BOF "intimidation" of shops - "No, I didn't say you are doing anything illegal per se, but you know, if your DA decides he's in a bad mood, then you could be in serious trouble...we've got our eye on you - let's see your paperwork for the last XX months."

Disgusting and the sad thing is that a good decision in Parker/Heller won't do a thing to stop it. Yet another front.

08-16-2007, 8:42 AM
Perhaps I'm wrong - I grew up around it but am not privy to the current Washington give & take - but my feeling is our Senators and Representatives such as Feinstein, Boxer & Pelosi encourage this by their anti gun stance. If ATF went after dealers in Alabama, or Alaska or Wyoming they'd have pro gun elected reps making at least a call or two asking why their constituents are being targeted. In our case, not only does that phone call not happen, I'd bet quite the opposite occurs.

08-16-2007, 8:55 AM
Anyone know if FFL's are packing up and moving out of California?

08-16-2007, 8:57 AM
Well when the dems get in office......I would expect another 50% decline........

08-16-2007, 8:58 AM
Anyone know if FFL's are packing up and moving out of California?

None that I know of but just those guys gettin shut down......

08-16-2007, 9:49 AM
This isn't a California problem gentlemen, it's a nationwide problem. If they can get away with it in IDAHO they can get away with it anywhere. They don't need congress, they don't need to pass any laws - they just find some paperwork violations and pull the license.

In the Trader's case they wanted paperwork going back to 1967! Yeah, sure that's reasonable - I'm sure none of the employees made any paperwork clerical errors going back forty years. Basically it's like this - if a dealer comes up on BATFE radar, and they want to shut them down, they will find and excuse to shut them down. Some due process.

Petition for Correction (http://www.petitiononline.com/redstrad/petition.html)

To: US Congress and the ATF

We, the undersigned are petitioning for the fair treatment of licensed law abiding firearm dealers by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF).

Federally licensed dealers across the nation are being targeted and shut down for minor and unintentional clerical errors. Imagine having your driver’s license revoked because you did not completely spell out the word “no” when answering a “yes” or “no” question on your application 5 years ago.

The ATF begins with an audit revealing petty violations which are usually minor clerical errors. They list these errors as "willful" which congress set in the wording to protect FFL dealers. The dealer’s Federal Firearms License is then revoked and the dealer must enter an appeals process which is extremely unfair. You appeal to the ATF and they in turn decide that they were right in revoking your license. This is the equivalent of being in court and having the prosecuting attorney act as an adviser to the judge. The dealer must then take the case to Federal court incurring months of litigation and astronomical legal fees.

We demand that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) be stopped in their blatant targeting of law abiding dealers and that a fair, constitutional and speedy appeals process put into place.


The Undersigned

08-16-2007, 3:15 PM
Be nice if the state and feds would go after illegals and child molesters with
the same zeal they use going after gun shops, FFL's and Mfg's..Messed up
priorities as far as I'm concerned.

That would require some effort on their part, and we all know how they feel about that. Always the easy targets, ALWAYS.


08-16-2007, 3:20 PM
Anyone know if FFL's are packing up and moving out of California?

I used to go to Arm USA in Fullerton and it seems they've all but disappeared.


08-16-2007, 4:15 PM
My wife and I have discussed where to move outside of California. My daughters have no intention of moving at this point so when I do move, I'm going to maintain my daughters residence as my residence in California for voting purposes. I think that is the smart thing to do so that our numbers aren't reduced. That makes me a very dangerous person to California politicians. Totally untouchable.

08-16-2007, 9:25 PM
in later years, all the anti-gunners in CA will realize the truth that we all know at this very moment... guns laws only effect law-abiding citizens NOT criminals. micro-stamping and all this other cr@p will not solve a thing.

it's pretty pathetic that our elected officials don't exhibit a shred of common sense on some issues but they still are allowed to run our state. i guess the amount of common sense a politician has is inversely proportional to the amount of campaign contributions they receive from special interest groups.

the batf shuting down ffl after ffl. again, it's only effecting law-abiding citizens. most of the guns out there on the street were aquired through home robberies. it's not rocket science. the best that we, as responsible citizens can do is lock up our firearms in a safe. it doesn't guarantee the robber isn't going to carry a 400lbs safe down 2 flights of stairs or through window but it's highly unlikely. hiding firearms under the mattress, in a closet or nightstand isn't good enough.
this isn't meant to be a lecture to anyone ...i'm just frustrated that we all have to suffer and our rights take it in the rear-end because of these dirt bags.:(