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jvc707
08-15-2007, 4:29 PM
Subject: Legislation Allows Veterans to Salute the Flag

Legislation Allows Veterans to Salute the Flag
>
> A change in US Law now allows Veterans and Active Duty Personnel when
> not
in uniform to salute the flag, rather than having to place their right hand
over their heart. Following is the message I received describing the change:

> Inhofe Legislation Allows Veterans to Salute the Flag
>
> Ryan Cassin, 07.26.2007
>
> WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senator Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) today praised the
passage by unanimous consent of his bill (S.1877) clarifying U.S. law to
allow veterans and servicemen not in uniform to salute the flag. Current law
(US Code Title 4, Chapter 1) states that veterans and servicemen not in
uniform should place their hand over their heart without clarifying whether
they can or should salute the flag.
>
> "The salute is a form of honor and respect, representing pride in
> one's
military service," Senator Inhofe said. "Veterans and service members
continue representing the military services even when not in uniform.
>
> "Unfortunately, current U.S. law leaves confusion as to whether
> veterans
and service members out of uniform can or should salute the flag. My
legislation will clarify this regulation, allowing veterans and servicemen
alike to salute the flag, whether they are in uniform or not.
>
> "I look forward to seeing those who have served saluting proudly at
baseball games, parades, and formal events.. I believe this is an
appropriate way to honor and recognize the 25 million veterans in the United
States who have served in the military and remain as role models to others
citizens. Those who are currently serving or have served in the military
have earned this right, and their recognition will be an inspiration to
others."
----------------------

TO AMEND TITLE 4, UNITED STATES CODE -- (Senate - July 25, 2007)
[Page: S10045]

---
Mrs. MURRAY. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the Senate proceed to the immediate consideration of S. 1877, introduced earlier today.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The clerk will report the bill by title.

The legislative clerk read as follows:
A bill (S. 1877) to amend title 4, United States Code, to prescribe that members of the Armed Forces and veterans out of uniform may render the military salute during hoisting, lowering, or passing of flag.

There being no objection, the Senate proceeded to consider the bill.

Mrs. MURRAY. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the bill be read a third time and passed, the motion to reconsider be laid upon the table, and that any statements relating to the bill be printed in the Record.

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
The bill (S. 1877) was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading, was read the third time, and passed, as follows:

S. 1877

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. CONDUCT BY MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES AND VETERANS OUT OF UNIFORM DURING HOISTING, LOWERING, OR PASSING OF FLAG.

Section 9 of title 4, United States Code, is amended by striking ``all persons present'' and all that follows through the end and inserting ``those present in uniform should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Citizens of other countries should stand at attention. All such conduct toward the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes.''.
END

CavTrooper
08-15-2007, 4:42 PM
I never knew thier was a law against saluting when out of uniform, I just thought it was a matter of regular Military custom and courtesies. Ive always seen veterans (VFW, etc.) salute the flag when not in uniform and i dont think it was ever an issue. Id like to know if anyone (veteran) was ever cited, charged, etc. for saluting when not in uniform. If not, I think this is just another stupid "feel good" law that wasted time better spent on other issues.

MrLogan
08-15-2007, 5:13 PM
Makes no difference to me. I salute even when out of uniform.

dustoff31
08-15-2007, 5:15 PM
I agree with Cavtrooper. More feel good crap. Veterans saluting the flag is not a problem. The real problem is how do we get most other people to even respect the flag and what it represents, much less salute it.

Fjold
08-15-2007, 5:36 PM
In the Navy, you don't salute out of uniform or when you don't have a cover (hat).

In the Navy you don't wear a cover indoors either.

Piper
08-15-2007, 5:39 PM
Feel good or not, for those of us that were hung up on protocol, it removes that question. From now on I will salute the flag every chance I get. Just another way of leading by example. BTW, does anyone else get all emotional inside when you're standing there paying respect to the colors?

SgtBulldog
08-15-2007, 5:55 PM
Marines never salute off-duty or without a cover. Useless legislation.

Plus, if one properly salutes at a baseball game, you'd likely knock your elbow against the head of the guy to your right.

EricCartmann
08-15-2007, 6:54 PM
I never knew I was breaking the law.

KenpoProfessor
08-15-2007, 7:16 PM
Feel good or not, for those of us that were hung up on protocol, it removes that question. From now on I will salute the flag every chance I get. Just another way of leading by example. BTW, does anyone else get all emotional inside when you're standing there paying respect to the colors?


Damn, I thought I was the only one. One of the last jobs I did in CA had me working right next to March AFB. Every morning, revelie(sp) and the National Anthem, nearly put tears to my eyes every day.

Have a great gun carryin' day

Clyde

bg
08-15-2007, 7:20 PM
Well that's all fine and dandy, but how bout the Congress get off it's
6 and work as hard as they can for active and vet health care fixes.

No vet should have to wait years to get med-cash benefits and help.
This is one area the Government has totally messed up on. I realise
some good has happened recently, but not nearly enough.

What's the hold up ?

Cpl_Peters
08-15-2007, 8:11 PM
In the Navy, you don't salute out of uniform or when you don't have a cover (hat).

In the Navy you don't wear a cover indoors either.

same with the Marines. I stand at attention for colors, and don't salute without a cover.

jimx
08-15-2007, 8:18 PM
Saluting uncovered out of uniform???? Never really gave it much thought other than thinking that it is something you should not do. While I am not in favor of a change in “protocol” I would not lose any sleep over it being allowed.

BTW it is legal to salute it any time you want to. Since the scous ruled it your 1st amendment right to burn or wipe your butt with the flag they would also have to allow you to salute it. (You also release less greenhouse gases saluting verses burning)

jimx
08-15-2007, 8:26 PM
> A change in US Law now allows Veterans and Active Duty Personnel when
> not
in uniform to salute the flag, rather than having to place their right hand
over their heart.

same with the Marines. I stand at attention for colors, and don't salute without a cover.


Active duty putting their hand over their heart? Everywhere I have been you would stand at attention.

slick_711
08-15-2007, 8:56 PM
same with the Marines. I stand at attention for colors, and don't salute without a cover.

Same w/ Air Force, I think that's pretty much an across the board customs & courtesies thing for all branches? The only time you ever wear a cover indoors is when armed and on official duty which is rare situations (prisoner escort/guard etc.).

MedSpec65
08-15-2007, 8:56 PM
I think it's a good idea. It gives ordinary folks at large public gatherings a better idea of how many Americans have worn the uniform of the United States. Our numbers are probably a lot bigger than they thought. (If they ever thought about it at all). Since my separation from the Army, I have always saluted the flag in the civilian manner, hand over heart as proscribed by the UCMJ. From now on I'll do a military salute and yell "AIRBORNE"! What the heck, Californians need a jolt.

bones138
08-16-2007, 12:01 AM
I just stand at attention, I dont feel comfortable saluting without a cover or holding my hand over my heart.

Blacktail 8541
08-16-2007, 7:57 AM
Faceing the flag and comeing to attention has always been a habit for me since my time in the USMC ended. To me it is a sign of respect to not only our country but to all those who have served and are still serving.

Semper FI
SGT USMC

Desert Rat
08-16-2007, 8:03 AM
...................... You can always tell the Veterans and other Patriots by the way they stand at attention.

Saluting out of uniform began in the public eye with Ronald Reagan. That worked for me, since he was once Army Cavalry, but Bill Clinton returning salutes made me cringe.

standing at attention when uncovered and/or out of uniform is long-standing tradition. Why do we need Congress to initiate new traditions?

Corey11c
08-16-2007, 9:45 AM
I was at the Laguna Seca Moto GP in July and I almost teared up when 2 F-18's flew over low and slow just as the National Anthem wrapped up. You could hear the cheering over the engine sounds.
I stand at attention and put my hand over my heart every time I hear it.

Beatone
08-16-2007, 10:43 AM
I'm glad they passed the bill. I can remember during the 70's this countries citizens (Not all) look at you like baby killers and all that crap because of the Vietnam war. I was always proud to know I had served my country with dignity.
I was at thir Moffet air show a few years ago and they had all the veterans stand and the whole audience clapped! Wow,what a day! The fly over and all really made me fell like a American again. What a change. Glad to see we can still pay are respects to the flag with dignity. :patriot: