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View Full Version : Wayne La Pierre on "Meet the Press" Today


otteray
12-23-2012, 5:13 AM
8gwDT7RNEG0


Published on Dec 23, 2012

The National Rifle Association remained defiant amid calls for more gun restrictions in the wake of the Newtown tragedy, calling instead for armed guards in American schools. In his first interview since the shooting, the head of the NRA, Wayne LaPierre, goes one-on-one with David Gregory to answer the tough questions.

The debate over guns and violence in America is poised to take center stage in the new Congress and a deal to avert the fiscal cliff remains elusive for leaders in Washington. We'll talk with two party leaders on these issues to see what prospects there are for compromise moving forward. Joining us: Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY) and Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC).

Sen. Graham was sticking up for ARs & large capacity mags in the post-discussion.

SanPedroShooter
12-23-2012, 8:03 AM
The whole thing.

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/23/16101856-nra-chief-if-putting-armed-police-in-schools-is-crazy-then-call-me-crazy?lite

SanPedroShooter
12-23-2012, 8:18 AM
Its a pretty good back and forth.

speleogist
12-23-2012, 8:19 AM
That white stuff on the corner of his mouth...

mike_c70
12-23-2012, 8:21 AM
Man, talk about being put on the spot! I guess LaPierre is handling it as best as he can. Whatever he says, the antis won't agree with it anyways.

Futurecollector
12-23-2012, 8:24 AM
Link, Link, Link :43:

SanPedroShooter
12-23-2012, 8:31 AM
Despite some deserved criticism, WLP knows his business and isnt afraid to get his hands dirty.

If you notice the way these interviews work, the host tries to pin you down, then use your statements against you.

He does a pretty good duck and weave.

SWalt
12-23-2012, 8:32 AM
The anti's are now being challenged......time to keep it going.

edgerly779
12-23-2012, 8:37 AM
WLP did great. Very well thought out valid points. The problem is the hysteria on the part of uninformed liberals and a lot of citizans as well. Ths facts need to be displayed for all to see. A lot of misinformation from the media. Especially liberal dems. New York Post good example of that.

Rossi357
12-23-2012, 8:43 AM
I was amazed that the armed gaurds at Columbine were told not to do anything...wait for the police. What good are mall cops in a gunfight.

HowardW56
12-23-2012, 8:49 AM
I was amazed that the armed gaurds at Columbine were told not to do anything...wait for the police. What good are mall cops in a gunfight.

The Sheriff's depuity assigned to Columbine was off campus, not far, but off campus, with the school's unarmed security officer.

See Sheriff's Department Report (http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/report/columbinereport/pages/toc.htm)

the86d
12-23-2012, 8:54 AM
This fruity-lipped David Gregory never let LaPierre finish a thought, and kept cutting him off even when he was answering a question fully.

Gregory clearly suffers from Hoplophobia due to ignorance of what doesn't work. Some people never even look outside their blinders at other examples... say Africa, the UK, or Australia...

Kharn
12-23-2012, 8:57 AM
I wonder what kind of charges NBC opened themselves up for, having a 30rd mag in DC...

scrubb
12-23-2012, 8:59 AM
Despite some deserved criticism, WLP knows his business and isnt afraid to get his hands dirty.

If you notice the way these interviews work, the host tries to pin you down, then use your statements against you.

He does a pretty good duck and weave.

Agreed. He is in a VERY tough spot right now. An easy target for so many. He needs us to stand behind him/NRA to show our unification.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=660580

scrubb
12-23-2012, 9:01 AM
That white stuff on the corner of his mouth...

Nice that is all you got out of this.

SuperSet
12-23-2012, 9:05 AM
Saw it too and thought that the interview went better than the press conference.

Marthor
12-23-2012, 9:08 AM
He did pretty good on a prepared barrage of attacks. The interviewer's main goal that he tried more than five times was to try to trap the NRA into saying we'll try anything including more gun control.

SPUTTER
12-23-2012, 9:10 AM
I like his comments on the elite who get permits and the average guy doesn't.

I think a large part of the problem is the average American just doesn't really understand what kind of rights he has. Many don't understand how important these rights have played throughout history. This is the ignorance that is our most dangerous threat. Seems like we have to play through the whole drama again to remind everyone how important it is to not allow anyone to infringe upon our rights.

You'd be surprised how many gun owners view their ownership as a privilege and have no idea what the 2nd means in the context of our history. Its truly sad.

ewarmour
12-23-2012, 9:11 AM
The NRA is not going to let people lose the Second Amendment in this country.” -Wayne LaPierre

They fight for you.

All you NRA haters can suck it.

SanPedroShooter
12-23-2012, 9:14 AM
I like his comments on the elite who get permits and the average guy doesn't.

I think a large part of the problem is the average American just doesn't really understand what kind of rights he has. Many don't understand how important these rights have played throughout history. This is the ignorance that is our most dangerous threat. Seems like we have to play through the whole drama again to remind everyone how important it is to not allow anyone to infringe upon our rights.

You'd be surprised how many gun owners view their ownership as a privilege and have no idea what the 2nd means in the context of our history. Its truly sad.


I thought that was great point too. Hatred of 'elitism' is at the bottom of every Americans heart. Its in our DNA. Even if we engage in it ourselves, any time we recognize it in someone else it stirs up resentment.

fullspeed1
12-23-2012, 9:31 AM
WLP took a firm stance, and basically said the NRA is not willing to compromise with any faulty failed legislative gun/magazine ban that the LIBTARDs conjure up. Good for him.

SPUTTER
12-23-2012, 9:40 AM
We need a list of all those who will vote nay and those that are in between.

TS77
12-23-2012, 9:41 AM
Off-again, on-again NRA member here ( I just really dislike the phone calls), but I'll most likely sign-up for a two-year after seeing this performance...MUCH better than Friday.

Notice the shift to standard-cap mags issue instead of AWB? gun-grabbers are using these conference as much as we are.

BIGDJG
12-23-2012, 9:42 AM
Great link, Go NRA, protecting the common man, and my rights

donw
12-23-2012, 9:56 AM
I was amazed that the armed gaurds at Columbine were told not to do anything...wait for the police. What good are mall cops in a gunfight.

we have been trained to be victims...

what's the first thing taught to little johnny and Susie in school? "Don't take the law into your own hands, call the police."

as we all know...when seconds count, the police are minutes away...

unless a person knows and UNDERSTANDS all the laws pertaining to SD/HD, they take a chance even in legitimate SD/HD...

as wacky, dysfunctional and irrational as some legislators are, i'm surprised they haven't passed laws against legitimate SD/HD

SanPedroShooter
12-23-2012, 9:57 AM
David Keen NRA President, Face the Nation

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50137670n

taloft
12-23-2012, 9:59 AM
You have to love the willful ignorance on the part of the Media. When faced with the fact that we tried this crap at the Federal level for 10 years and it got us nothing in the way of crime reduction, they pretend this is an all new approach.:facepalm:

SMR510
12-23-2012, 10:01 AM
He should have stated more clearly that the previous AWB did not do anything to reduce violent crime and therefor it does not fall into the category of "something that might work" as the host kept trying to back him in that corner.

Much better than the press conference!

SuperSet
12-23-2012, 10:08 AM
I thought David did a good job. Well done.

VAReact
12-23-2012, 10:27 AM
David Keen NRA President, Face the Nation

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50137670n

Just watched this. A very good interview -much better than the press conference on Friday.

radioman
12-23-2012, 10:30 AM
30,000 gun deaths a year, whats the brake down. How many are police involved shotings, self defence? brake it down, then that number would mean something.

Ieyasu
12-23-2012, 10:42 AM
30,000 gun deaths a year, whats the brake down. How many are police involved shotings, self defence? brake it down, then that number would mean something.
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvintl.html

dieselpower
12-23-2012, 10:53 AM
My response to the "shouldn't we try everything" question would be... "there are people who think praying to the spirit of Elvis Presley will decrease crime...that doesn't mean we need to try it. Diane Feinstein had her chance from 1994 to 2004, it didn't work."

Jack L
12-23-2012, 11:17 AM
Wayne held the line today on MTP. He called BS on the anti’s myths, he’s waiting for back up. Lindsey Graham backed him up after he spoke. The hysteria by the anti’s is giving way to more people recognizing Wayne is NOT CRAZY. I sent the NRA some $ today.

wjc
12-23-2012, 11:26 AM
I was not surprised by the baiting done by the host. In my opinion, "Meet the Press" has steadily declined in "journalistic ethics" for years.

Wayne did pretty well but I think we are getting killed on the amount of shows (CNN, CPAN, etc.) that are pushing the anti agenda and the emotional angle.

We don't have enough exposure in the media.

sholling
12-23-2012, 11:29 AM
This fruity-lipped David Gregory never let LaPierre finish a thought, and kept cutting him off even when he was answering a question fully.

Gregory clearly suffers from Hoplophobia due to ignorance of what doesn't work. Some people never even look outside their blinders at other examples... say Africa, the UK, or Australia...
Like many in the Progressive media David Gregory is little more than a spokesman for the Democratic Party's agenda.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nra-wayne-lapierre-meet-the-press-david-gregory-2012-12#ixzz2FuBV6Mem
He asked if LaPierre would support reducing the limit on magazine clips to carrying five to 10 bullets instead of 30

speedrrracer
12-23-2012, 11:31 AM
My response to the "shouldn't we try everything" question would be... "there are people who think praying to the spirit of Elvis Presley will decrease crime...that doesn't mean we need to try it. Diane Feinstein had her chance from 1994 to 2004, it didn't work."

And your response would be vastly superior to that offered by WLP.

He did better today, and he stuck to his talking points, but he's not a natural, and it shows. He can be made to look bad quite easily by the media, and for an org as large and as well-funded as the NRA, that's NOT ACCEPTABLE.

When some random poster (nothing personal, dieselpower!) on some random forum can quickly post a superior response to the leader of the NRA, that leader needs to quit being the public face of the org.

I was practically yelling from my chair, "NO, we shouldn't try EVERYTHING! We should try things that history, experience and science suggest might work! History tells us DiFi and Gun Control are failures!"

And why didn't he mention that reloading is not such a big deal? So many antis are invested in this fantasy world where reloading is somehow a deterrent to shooting. The entire normal-cap ban is based on....NOTHING. The leader of the NRA needs to tell the world that this emperor has no clothes!

Show me the science which backs your suggestion that reloading is a deterrent, and then let's talk, but you're just inventing fantasies now.


Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

frustrating

ArmedJackal
12-23-2012, 11:36 AM
It was a fairly good defense of the 2nd. I did think his position was exposed a bit when he refuses to even entertain the idea that any gun control legislation could help at all. It is simply a weak argument to make. Makes you look like an unreasonable and biased.

ArmedJackal
12-23-2012, 11:40 AM
I think just as a show of good faith the NRA should at least start talking about gun show loopholes etc. I understand that it is "erosion" etc... But honestly, I really don't mind a bg check on every gun purchase. I can live with that. Would it stop these tragedies. Probably not.... But if you appear an unreasonable partner, you will sim,y be excluded from the discussion.

Krak
12-23-2012, 11:52 AM
30,000 gun deaths a year, whats the brake down. How many are police involved shotings, self defence? brake it down, then that number would mean something.

That's what the anti-gun lobby doesn't want you to know. ~20,000 of those deaths are from suicides and as evidenced by Japan, someone is going to kill them self if they have a gun or not. Another ~1,000 are from accidents and the rest are from murders. So only around ~9,000-10,000 are from murders.

speedrrracer
12-23-2012, 11:58 AM
I think just as a show of good faith the NRA should at least start talking about gun show loopholes etc.

Good faith, maybe. Good sense, no.

You cannot surrender something without getting something in return. Negotiation 1.

Enforce the laws we already have. Redirect the narrative to the "mental health loophole" that the antis leave open (why won't the antis close the mental health loophole????).

Lastly, quit crying about "it's too expensive" when we give trillions to bail out bankers and Wall St, but won't spend on armed guards to protect our children or close the mental health loophole?

MOA1
12-23-2012, 12:02 PM
One thing that needs to pounded home is "we will not give one inch". Gun control laws are a massive failure and that is what we are seeing.

David Keen stated that there are more homicides by fist than by long gun and the response was, "we have better medical available and that is why there are less long gun deaths" my response would be "it would stand to reason that we also have less people being killed by fists as well".

At first glance it sounded like WLP was off his rocker by stating we need armed guards in schools, that is an impossibility and he knows it, or should know it. In hindsight maybe it's a brilliant tactic to employ in this argument? Put the blame on the govt. The govt also has not followed thru on the funding for these programs.

What makes more sense? Have two armed guards at every school or make it possible for every faculty member have the choice to arm themselves. So instead of having two marked guards you have the potential for 40 or so armed teachers/admin/greens keepers etc. It makes even more sense to have the janitors and landscapers to be armed, their focus is not on the children but on the facility, which makes them more effective. They are the perimeter and most likely to encounter a threat first.

2 marked or 40 unmarked. Of course the number would fluctuate and not every teacher would be armed, but the potential for them to be armed is a much bigger threat to any person intent on doing harm.

wjc
12-23-2012, 12:05 PM
Good faith, maybe. Good sense, no.

You cannot surrender something without getting something in return. Negotiation 1.

Enforce the laws we already have. Redirect the narrative to the "mental health loophole" that the antis leave open (why won't the antis close the mental health loophole????).

Lastly, quit crying about "it's too expensive" when we give trillions to bail out bankers and Wall St, but won't spend on armed guards to protect our children or close the mental health loophole?

Wayne brought something like that up. I'm paraphrasing...

"We are spending $2 billion dollars on Iraqs' police force...why cant that money go to support our schools?"

sholling
12-23-2012, 12:06 PM
I think just as a show of good faith the NRA should at least start talking about gun show loopholes etc. I understand that it is "erosion" etc... But honestly, I really don't mind a bg check on every gun purchase. I can live with that. Would it stop these tragedies. Probably not.... But if you appear an unreasonable partner, you will sim,y be excluded from the discussion.
I saw this attitude in the early 90s when the Fudds said they could live without black rifles and semiautomatic handguns as long as they got to keep their bolt action rifles, double barrel shotguns, and wheel guns. No citizen should ever have to ask permission to enjoy their 2nd Amendment rights any more than an African-American should have to ride in the back of the bus to prove they aren't "uppity". :rolleyes:

Not one more inch!

ArmedJackal
12-23-2012, 12:16 PM
I saw this attitude in the early 90s when the Fudds said they could live without black rifles and semiautomatic handguns as long as they got to keep their bolt action rifles, double barrel shotguns, and wheel guns. No citizen should ever have to ask permission to enjoy their 2nd Amendment rights any more than an African-American should have to ride in the back of the bus to prove they aren't "uppity". :rolleyes:

Not one more inch!

Sigh. Binary explanations are for those incapable of processing nuance. Not all gun legislation is inherently evil or wrong. Should violent felons have legal access to guns? Your stated position argues that they should. To be a part of the discussion, gun right advocates cannot simply stamp our feet like three year olds.

L84CABO
12-23-2012, 12:22 PM
I thought David did a good job. Well done.

+1. I don't know why Wayen is the primary spokesman for the NRA. David does a much better job of things.

donny douchebag
12-23-2012, 12:28 PM
... To be a part of the discussion, gun right advocates cannot simply stamp our feet like three year olds...

Unfortunately they do, constantly, and three year olds should not own guns.

MOA1
12-23-2012, 12:28 PM
ArmedJackal: We are not the ones stomping our feet. My position is, the strict gun laws in place are the problem. Those emotional people are stomping their feet, they want to blame the easiest thing to blame regardless if it's accurate or not. I say, bring a logical argument and then we can talk, until then there is no reason to have a hysterical emotionally charged debate.

By definition, criminals don't obey the laws in place, but somehow it makes sense to make another law and somehow this new law will solve everything. Restricting law biding citizens does nothing to stop crime and in fact it's just the opposite. But they refuse to hear that. The ones that are and have been clamoring for more gun restrictions are wrong, they refuse to admit that they were wrong and will continue to hold their fingers in their ears and refuse to listen because if they did they would have to concede they were wrong.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results, and this is precisely what they are doing.

This is nothing more than the anti gun people being wrong and refusing to admit it.

They never will, you can not have a meaningful conversation with a belligerent person or group of people.


Tell me what part of what I said doesn't make sense.

bubbapug1
12-23-2012, 12:31 PM
Wow, what a "attempt" at a mugging. Why was the host so angry???

I was pleased to see that although the media has painted Wayne and his program as Crazy, the majority of Americans think its viable and will support it.

The media will turn up the heat until the day of the vote, but I also think people can see that this is railroading decision making.

The decision has already been made, they (the anti's) just needed the time to rally to a flag. That's despicable.

I see a government using isolated rare occasions as a tool to strip some Americans of their rights, money, pensions, and dignity. How long can this be tolerated?

MOA1
12-23-2012, 12:33 PM
So, if we make it double bad to murder people, that will solve everything. And if that doesn't work we'll make it triple bad.............

MOA1
12-23-2012, 12:35 PM
David Keen needs to handle all of the press appearances, he is a very good representative for us.

ervaztec
12-23-2012, 12:44 PM
Not impressed with WLP.
When he was confronted with the 30 round mag he should have said;
"Do you know how many people were killed with guns that use those last year?"
"No."
"take a guess. 400 or 4000?"
If he refuses to answer or doesn't know you say "you don't even know do you. And you want to ban it anyway. The answer is less than 400. More people are killed with hands than with that mag. what's your next idea?"

Or
He should have made the point that it is very easy to change 10 round mags.
Or
"What other "ban" in US history would you pattern your proposed ban? Prohibition of Alcohol? War on drugs, Ban on prostitution?" You would just give drug smugglers a new profit source."

fullspeed1
12-23-2012, 12:45 PM
Mr Keene did a good job!!

Tarn_Helm
12-23-2012, 12:45 PM
I saw this attitude in the early 90s when the Fudds said they could live without black rifles and semiautomatic handguns as long as they got to keep their bolt action rifles, double barrel shotguns, and wheel guns. No citizen should ever have to ask permission to enjoy their 2nd Amendment rights any more than an African-American should have to ride in the back of the bus to prove they aren't "uppity". :rolleyes:

Not one more inch!

Ditto: Not one more inch! ^

dieselpower
12-23-2012, 1:08 PM
There is no gun show loop hole.

Its like saying since I am selling my car, I need to add DMV fees to the sale...just like a Car Dealership would.

There shouldnt be a single ounce of paperwork for a Person to person sale of a firearm...NONE. Its a PRIVATE TRANSACTION.

Do you ask for a DMV report when selling a car? How about a criminal record check to see if the buyer has a DUI conviction. What about doing that when selling a 6-pack of beer?

Yes criminals will get guns this way...deal with it. You can never trade freedom for security... it doesnt exist.

Mulay El Raisuli
12-23-2012, 1:09 PM
And your response would be vastly superior to that offered by WLP.

He did better today, and he stuck to his talking points, but he's not a natural, and it shows. He can be made to look bad quite easily by the media, and for an org as large and as well-funded as the NRA, that's NOT ACCEPTABLE.

When some random poster (nothing personal, dieselpower!) on some random forum can quickly post a superior response to the leader of the NRA, that leader needs to quit being the public face of the org.

I was practically yelling from my chair, "NO, we shouldn't try EVERYTHING! We should try things that history, experience and science suggest might work! History tells us DiFi and Gun Control are failures!"

And why didn't he mention that reloading is not such a big deal? So many antis are invested in this fantasy world where reloading is somehow a deterrent to shooting. The entire normal-cap ban is based on....NOTHING. The leader of the NRA needs to tell the world that this emperor has no clothes!

Show me the science which backs your suggestion that reloading is a deterrent, and then let's talk, but you're just inventing fantasies now.


Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

frustrating


I really have to work on my self control. I was actually yelling from my chair.

Also, I disagree with everything else you said though. I thought WLP did OK.


It was a fairly good defense of the 2nd. I did think his position was exposed a bit when he refuses to even entertain the idea that any gun control legislation could help at all. It is simply a weak argument to make. Makes you look like an unreasonable and biased.


Hard to say since nothing proposed WOULD help at all.


Sigh. Binary explanations are for those incapable of processing nuance. Not all gun legislation is inherently evil or wrong. Should violent felons have legal access to guns? Your stated position argues that they should. To be a part of the discussion, gun right advocates cannot simply stamp our feet like three year olds.


You're completely wrong here.

1. Yes, all gun control IS inherently evil & wrong. Just because putting the force of law behind stupidity just is.

2. Keeping felons from guns isn't "gun control." That's felon control. That's why your comment regarding Sholling's position doesn't connect with reality.

3. Sholling is also correct in that we shouldn't give another inch. We did before & where did that get us? And look at the interview here. A comment about "trying anything" was twisted by the host into "thinking" that WLP should be accepting of the AWB! When your opponent thinks like that, yielding even a little bit is clearly a bad idea.


Good faith, maybe. Good sense, no.

You cannot surrender something without getting something in return. Negotiation 1.

Enforce the laws we already have. Redirect the narrative to the "mental health loophole" that the antis leave open (why won't the antis close the mental health loophole]????).

Lastly, quit crying about "it's too expensive" when we give trillions to bail out bankers and Wall St, but won't spend on armed guards to protect our children or close the mental health loophole?


I love the part about the "mental health loophole."

But, we should make the focus on how they need (and so turn their own key word against them) help & how they aren't getting that help.


One thing that needs to pounded home is "we will not give one inch". Gun control laws are a massive failure and that is what we are seeing.

David Keen stated that there are more homicides by fist than by long gun and the response was, "we have better medical available and that is why there are less long gun deaths" my response would be "it would stand to reason that we also have less people being killed by fists as well".


Keen & WLP are bright guys. I'm sure that they'll have that response ready the next time its brought up.


At first glance it sounded like WLP was off his rocker by stating we need armed guards in schools, that is an impossibility and he knows it, or should know it. In hindsight maybe it's a brilliant tactic to employ in this argument? Put the blame on the govt. The govt also has not followed thru on the funding for these programs.


Its brilliant. Something to emphasize is that Clinton & Babs Boxer ALSO pushed for this.


What makes more sense? Have two armed guards at every school or make it possible for every faculty member have the choice to arm themselves. So instead of having two marked guards you have the potential for 40 or so armed teachers/admin/greens keepers etc. It makes even more sense to have the janitors and landscapers to be armed, their focus is not on the children but on the facility, which makes them more effective. They are the perimeter and most likely to encounter a threat first.

2 marked or 40 unmarked. Of course the number would fluctuate and not every teacher would be armed, but the potential for them to be armed is a much bigger threat to any person intent on doing harm.


Add mentioning that Utah already does this & we have a winner.

I like having janitors & grounds keepers being part of the process. Now, if only we could draft Frazz into the fight....


The Raisuli

sholling
12-23-2012, 1:18 PM
Sigh. Binary explanations are for those incapable of processing nuance. Not all gun legislation is inherently evil or wrong. Should violent felons have legal access to guns? Your stated position argues that they should. To be a part of the discussion, gun right advocates cannot simply stamp our feet like three year olds.
So your solution is to give up some of our freedom today and a bit more tomorrow, and a still more next week, and yet more next month until we're as disarmed as the British. That's the kind of submission and cowardice (what you call "nuance") that got us to where we are with bullet buttons, the handgun list, and may issue that for most is really no-issue. We've been there and done that and all it lead to is the loss of more and more freedom - NOT ONE MORE INCH! However feel free to turn in your guns to prove your "reasonableness".

BTW based on your statement I have to assume that you see Martin Luther King as an uppity "three year old" for not being willing to ride in the back of the bus or "accept separate but equal" and segregation. This is a civil rights issue.

Tiberius
12-23-2012, 1:24 PM
Nice job by LaPierre. As others have said, this it the time to support the NRA, GOA, SAF, and other 2A supporters.

Old_Bald_Guy
12-23-2012, 1:25 PM
Binary is big here at CGF. Pseudodigitization of complicated phenomena and all that. Disagree on a detail, you're a "spineless freedom giver-awayer" or some such nonsense. Talking about nuance and complexity in a setting where those are dirty words is generally a waste of time. Could be that some people here even agree to some degree but seldom talk about it because they realize the futility. I realize the futility but periodically interject anyway for unknown reasons. Now returning y'all to your regular programming. Have at it.

sholling
12-23-2012, 1:30 PM
Binary is big here at CGF. Pseudodigitization of complicated phenomena and all that. Disagree on a detail, you're a "spineless freedom giver-awayer" or some such nonsense. Talking about nuance and complexity in a setting where those are dirty words is generally a waste of time. Could be that some people here even agree to some degree but seldom talk about it because they realize the futility. I realize the futility but periodically interject anyway for unknown reasons. Now returning y'all to your regular programming. Have at it.

So tell us what freedoms we should trade away in exchange for keeping the rest until next time we're told to be reasonable and give up more freedom? What freedoms are you wanting us to give up?

Meplat
12-23-2012, 1:48 PM
[:troll:That white stuff on the corner of his mouth...

:troll:

Meplat
12-23-2012, 1:55 PM
I wonder what kind of charges NBC opened themselves up for, having a 30rd mag in DC...

Not that it matters but that was a twenty, he just called it a thirty. I think it would have been a hoot if WLP had called him on it; but I’m not a PR expert.

robertmcm
12-23-2012, 2:03 PM
I think just as a show of good faith the NRA should at least start talking about gun show loopholes etc. I understand that it is "erosion" etc... But honestly, I really don't mind a bg check on every gun purchase. I can live with that. Would it stop these tragedies. Probably not.... But if you appear an unreasonable partner, you will sim,y be excluded from the discussion.

I say no more compromise. The Bill of Rights was THE compromise

Meplat
12-23-2012, 2:14 PM
Off-again, on-again NRA member here ( I just really dislike the phone calls), but I'll most likely sign-up for a two-year after seeing this performance...MUCH better than Friday.

Notice the shift to standard-cap mags issue instead of AWB? gun-grabbers are using these conference as much as we are.

These libtards are testing the waters every minute, hour, and day to gauge just what they can get away with and how far they can go. Now is not the time to show one twitch of weakness, NRA can’t blink, and so far they have not. Funds outgoing to ILA!

ca1903
12-23-2012, 2:26 PM
I listen through the interview and Wayne did a good job, under the preset circumstances by the NBC interview.

I would love to see Wayne emphasizing more on:
with 20,000 laws on gun control and not enforced, how can one more legislature that is the repeat of 1994 assault weapon ban work? Columbine proved that.

Why add more law when the existing laws are not enforced on the criminals, gangsters, etc as Wayne pointed out?

racer_X_123
12-23-2012, 2:29 PM
Thought this was worth sharing.

http://thepatriotperspective.wordpress.com/2012/12/23/david-gregory-violates-dc-gun-law-on-national-tv/



David Gregory Violates DC Gun Law On National TV
Posted: December 23, 2012 by ShortTimer in Crime, Guns, Media
0

Meet the Press’s studios are located in Washington DC. This morning on “Meet the Press”, David Gregory decided to wave around a 30-round AR-15 magazine.

david gregory meet the press ar15 magazine 121223

From DC’s gun laws:

DC High Capacity Ammunition Magazines – D.C. Official Code 7-2506.01

(b) No person in the District shall possess, sell, or transfer any large capacity ammunition feeding device regardless of whether the device is attached to a firearm. For the purposes of this subsection, the term large capacity ammunition feeding device means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition. The term large capacity ammunition feeding device shall not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition..”

From Westlaw’s listing of DC’s gun laws:

District of Columbia Official Code 2001 Edition Currentness
Division I. Government of District.
Title 7. Human Health Care and Safety.
Subtitle J. Public Safety.
Chapter 25. Firearms Control.
Full text of all sections at this level Unit A. Firearms Control Regulations.
Full text of all sections at this level Subchapter VI. Possession of Ammunition.
Current selection§ 7-2506.01. Persons permitted to possess ammunition.

(b) No person in the District shall possess, sell, or transfer any large capacity ammunition feeding device regardless of whether the device is attached to a firearm. For the purposes of this subsection, the term “large capacity ammunition feeding device” means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition. The term “large capacity ammunition feeding device” shall not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

Penalties:

It is also illegal to possess, sell or transfer any “large capacity ammunition feeding device.” A person guilty of this charge can be sentenced to a maximum fine of $1000 and/or up to a year imprisonment. D.C. Criminal Code 7-2506.01.

And from the DC Criminal Defense Lawyer Blog:

3. Unlawful Possession of Ammunition – As I mentioned above, in the District of Columbia, unless you are a licensed firearms dealer, you can only possess ammunition for the type of firearm that you are lawfully registered to own. Possession of unlawful ammunition is a crime and can result in a fine of $1,000 and a year in prison. It is also illegal to own what is considered a “large capacity ammunition feeding device,” which means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition.

I chose to highlight these three major gun laws because they are the ones most likely to catch someone off guard that has no idea they are in violation of the Washington, DC gun laws.

ca1903
12-23-2012, 2:29 PM
I listen through the interview and Wayne did a good job, under the preset circumstances by the NBC interview.

I would love to see Wayne emphasizing more on:
with 20,000 laws on gun control and not enforced, how can one more legislature that is the repeat of 1994 assault weapon ban work? Columbine proved that.

Why add more law when the existing laws are not enforced on the criminals, gangsters, etc as Wayne pointed out?

racer_X_123
12-23-2012, 2:29 PM
Whats with all the double posts Lately?

Write Winger
12-23-2012, 2:29 PM
God dammit how I wish he would have an answer for the "high capacity assault clips that hold 30 bullets" garbage.

Talking about reloading is a non sequitur, because we all want 30rd mags so we won't have to reload. They'd say "so if it doesn't matter, then you shouldn't have a problem banning them!"

Instead you say "there are millions of +10rd magazines already legally owned and used for self defense, that 11th or 30th round could mean the difference between life and death to a law abiding citizen facing a criminal who may be able to out gun him because you limited a law abiding cutizen's ability. A criminal can still get +10rd mags."

winslowgirl
12-23-2012, 2:41 PM
I heard or read a statistic that we have 10,000 gun laws in the United States (federal, state, and local). Since the first ten thousand attempts at effective regulation proved wholly inadequate in preventing this tragedy , what makes them believe the ten-thousand-and-first will be any different?

Surely it is insane to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result? Einstein certainly thought so, and he was a smart man.

I'm with Albert.

IPSICK
12-23-2012, 2:47 PM
WLP made up for the sub-standard speech on Friday. He did really well against an adversarial host.

Btw, somebody needs to do a video between the time difference between firing 30 rounds with one mag vs. 30 rounds with 3 mags. Likely a small amount of time when compared to the response time of law enforcement. Seconds vs. minutes or hours?

Meplat
12-23-2012, 2:49 PM
I think just as a show of good faith the NRA should at least start talking about gun show loopholes etc. I understand that it is "erosion" etc... But honestly, I really don't mind a bg check on every gun purchase. I can live with that. Would it stop these tragedies. Probably not.... But if you appear an unreasonable partner, you will sim,y be excluded from the discussion.

These libtards are testing the waters every minute, hour, and day to gauge just what they can get away with and how far they can go. Now is not the time to show one twitch of weakness.

morfeeis
12-23-2012, 2:50 PM
The one thing that i think CA has done right with gun laws in keeping the mentally ill away from firearms, i always thought the whole country did it too. Now i know that there is a federal law the prohibits the mentally ill from buying firearms but i didn't know the fed didn't keep track. That is the only thing i would let slide.

Other then that i think Wayne did a great job, i just hated to see the reporter lay that trap about "doing one thing" for him and Wayne falling for it.

morfeeis
12-23-2012, 2:50 PM
The one thing that i think CA has done right with gun laws in keeping the mentally ill away from firearms, i always thought the whole country did it too. Now i know that there is a federal law the prohibits the mentally ill from buying firearms but i didn't know the fed didn't keep track. That is the only thing i would let slide.

Other then that i think Wayne did a great job, i just hated to see the reporter lay that trap about "doing one thing" for him and Wayne falling for it.

Meplat
12-23-2012, 2:54 PM
Whats with all the double posts Lately?

Server growing pains.

kouye
12-23-2012, 2:56 PM
I'll say one thing for WLP, he's got a lot of self-restraint. I would not be a good spokesperson, I'd would have reached over and slugged David Gregory several times...never see the media grill the anti-gun spokespeople like this, go figure...

Meplat
12-23-2012, 3:01 PM
WLP made up for the sub-standard speech on Friday. He did really well against an adversarial host.

Btw, somebody needs to do a video between the time difference between firing 30 rounds with one mag vs. 30 rounds with 3 mags. Likely a small amount of time when compared to the response time of law enforcement. Seconds vs. minutes or hours?

With two guns reloading time is zero. Or all you need is a hand grenade or something that looks like one and no one is going to rush you. I could go on.

SanPedroShooter
12-23-2012, 3:06 PM
WLP has been around a long time, and has been down this road before.

I dont agree 100% with him or his presentation, but I have seen him rip numerous new *******s everywhere from CNN all the way to UN.

I give the guy props even if I have seen better and more elequent defenses.

He has a lot of experiance.

Extra411
12-23-2012, 3:15 PM
Wayne LaPierre did well, and represented gun owners well in that interview.

winslowgirl
12-23-2012, 4:30 PM
Mr La Pierre's closing statement focusing on the hypocrisy of the elites who grant themselves permits to carry while lobbying to deny working stiffs the same rights, was very powerful.

Those bleeding hearts, many of whom spend their careers and build their fortune glamorizing gun violence, are near universally protected by the gun - either their own or that of their bodyguard. They well understand that the ONLY effective answer to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Yet they en masse, rush to vilify and ridicule La Pierre when he preaches what they already practice.

There is not a major newspaper in this country where the publisher is not protected by the gun - certainly the publisher of the New York Post is. I doubt there is a major TV news personality who is not similarly protected by the gun.

It would have been worthwhile asking Gregory if, for all his earnest indignation at La Pierre's comments, HE is now, or ever has been, personally protected by a man with a gun.

If he has, why does he and the rest of the glitterati seek to deny our children that same assurance and privilege? Surely it is that that is nuts?

elkhorn98
12-23-2012, 4:47 PM
Wayne did ok and David did great. A few days ago I was thinking 10 rounds clips would be ok but now nothing. Gun control is like trying to stop drunk driving by baning sober people from driving.

ArmedJackal
12-23-2012, 6:56 PM
ArmedJackal: We are not the ones stomping our feet. My position is, the strict gun laws in place are the problem. Those emotional people are stomping their feet, they want to blame the easiest thing to blame regardless if it's accurate or not. I say, bring a logical argument and then we can talk, until then there is no reason to have a hysterical emotionally charged debate.

By definition, criminals don't obey the laws in place, but somehow it makes sense to make another law and somehow this new law will solve everything. Restricting law biding citizens does nothing to stop crime and in fact it's just the opposite. But they refuse to hear that. The ones that are and have been clamoring for more gun restrictions are wrong, they refuse to admit that they were wrong and will continue to hold their fingers in their ears and refuse to listen because if they did they would have to concede they were wrong.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results, and this is precisely what they are doing.

This is nothing more than the anti gun people being wrong and refusing to admit it.

They never will, you can not have a meaningful conversation with a belligerent person or group of people.


Tell me what part of what I said doesn't make sense.

You are preaching to the choir. I agree with basically everything you said. I was not addressing gun owners in general, just the dogmatic ones who are just as emotionally driven to their positions as the anti crowd.

We also cannot fall victim to the tendency to place a value of absolute truth on what are simply strong arguments for our position.

If you appear to the opposition as unwilling to entertain arguments that challenge your position... They are going to stop even trying to get our opinion and just end run around you.

dfletcher
12-23-2012, 7:17 PM
I think just as a show of good faith the NRA should at least start talking about gun show loopholes etc. I understand that it is "erosion" etc... But honestly, I really don't mind a bg check on every gun purchase. I can live with that. Would it stop these tragedies. Probably not.... But if you appear an unreasonable partner, you will sim,y be excluded from the discussion.

Why are gun owners always the ones invited to compromise? Why propose that we ought to volunteer to give up something? Among other issues, let's have the roster done away with by the CA legislature as an expression of good will on compromise. Or Senator Yee dropping his "Bullet Button Ban" legislation? How about cutting the wait in CA from 10 days to 3 or 5?

If folks wish to be sophisticated about dealing in compromise and not devolve to "either/or" or "win/lose" scenarios let's apply some of that to the folks on the other side of the issue, yes?

stearn786
12-23-2012, 9:24 PM
Hey guys, new petition on whitehouse.gov about David Gregory having a 30 round magazine in DC (courtesy of one the guys at ar15.com).

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/press-charges-against-david-gregory-possession-30-round-high-capacity-assault-rifle-magazine/gMNRPpPl

ArmedJackal
12-23-2012, 10:00 PM
Why are gun owners always the ones invited to compromise? Why propose that we ought to volunteer to give up something? Among other issues, let's have the roster done away with by the CA legislature as an expression of good will on compromise. Or Senator Yee dropping his "Bullet Button Ban" legislation? How about cutting the wait in CA from 10 days to 3 or 5?

If folks wish to be sophisticated about dealing in compromise and not devolve to "either/or" or "win/lose" scenarios let's apply some of that to the folks on the other side of the issue, yes?

Sure. The point here is to try to avoid the "true believer" mentality. I am all for reducing/eliminating the laws that accomplish nothing.

dr16o49
12-23-2012, 11:05 PM
I read and watch and agree with you all. The only problem I see is the ultimate goal.

To disarm america.

Rights do not matter. Laws do not matter. Its just the end goal that matters. So to talk about logic and ways to make things work is irrelevant. What matters is the ultimate goal.

The only way to combat the ultimate goal at this time is to push our rights for self protection and preservation of our way of life. Nothing else should even be considered in this discussion. If it is brought up, ignore and speak of only our rights. And how the erosion of one, leads to the erosion of all, until, we are all subjects to the master.

dr16o49
12-23-2012, 11:06 PM
sorry, but I am in the middle of my first ar and its a build. this just pisses me off.

211275
12-23-2012, 11:51 PM
David Keen NRA President, Face the Nation

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50137670n

This guy is a TON better than LaPierre. I am a new gun owner and have never paid much attention to the NRA but LaPierre just comes across terribly and never seems to answer a question directly. Keene is much more thought out, not nearly as condescending but still has a nice command. The NRA should keep him in the forefront and not LaPierre.

RT13
12-23-2012, 11:56 PM
At least this one wasn't a douchebag like Pierce Morgan on CNN.

Merkava_4
12-24-2012, 12:24 AM
This fruity-lipped David Gregory never let LaPierre finish a thought, and kept cutting him off even when he was answering a question fully.



My thoughts exactly. I wanted to reach through the screen and choke that reporter.

Merkava_4
12-24-2012, 12:42 AM
It was a fairly good defense of the 2nd. I did think his position was exposed a bit when he refuses to even entertain the idea that any gun control legislation could help at all. It is simply a weak argument to make. Makes you look like an unreasonable and biased.


He's correct, gun control legislation doesn't work at all. There needs to be more qualified people out there carrying guns, not less.

Merkava_4
12-24-2012, 12:57 AM
Wayne LaPierre did well, and represented gun owners well in that interview.


My thoughts exactly. Some people say he's not a good spokes person; I can understand him just fine.

IVC
12-24-2012, 1:31 AM
Sure. The point here is to try to avoid the "true believer" mentality. I am all for reducing/eliminating the laws that accomplish nothing.

Be more specific in what you would do. If there is a rational thought to oppose it, we are not talking about "true believers." People are not flexible because what's been proposed as gun control is a complete nonsense and antis have to be called on it.

speedrrracer
12-24-2012, 11:25 AM
Btw, somebody needs to do a video between the time difference between firing 30 rounds with one mag vs. 30 rounds with 3 mags. Likely a small amount of time when compared to the response time of law enforcement. Seconds vs. minutes or hours?

Think again...if you show them that reloading is easy, then Bullet Buttons will become required nationally...

just tell them to show you the science backing the assertion that reloading lowers body counts

SanPedroShooter
12-24-2012, 11:30 AM
This guy is a TON better than LaPierre. I am a new gun owner and have never paid much attention to the NRA but LaPierre just comes across terribly and never seems to answer a question directly. Keene is much more thought out, not nearly as condescending but still has a nice command. The NRA should keep him in the forefront and not LaPierre.

While I do not disagree, WLP serves a certian purpose. Someone has to draw a hard line, thats his job and he does it well.

Remember too, that the purpose of these interviews is to pin the NRA down, then use their words against them.

WLP vs NBC is just two people trading talking points (with the inclusion of an illegal 30 rounder....). Every American is going to have to take up the burden of changing minds one person at a time.

Dont make the mistake of not joining, all criticism aside.

FDM911
12-24-2012, 11:34 AM
just wondering, if background check is inportant and can be done instantly, why do we still have to wait 10 days to get our gun?

SanPedroShooter
12-24-2012, 11:39 AM
just wondering, if background check is inportant and can be done instantly, why do we still have to wait 10 days to get our gun?

Because politicians in California despise the Second Amendment for one. Along with our traditions, our way of life, our beliefs and our customs.

I may be speaking slightly for myself here....

Either way, the idea is to slow down or burden the right to arms as much as possible without running afoul of the courts.

And I dont think they even care about that anymore.

otteray
12-24-2012, 11:50 AM
just wondering, if background check is inportant and can be done instantly, why do we still have to wait 10 days to get our gun?
Because in California angry people need to "cool off"for 10 days so they won't kill the person that made them very angry.
Like when the Hollywood elitists and their worshipers (who were all for banning guns) got schooled during the Rodney King riots. Some of them went to buy guns for protection from rioters there and they were told to pick them up after 10 days. Lol

Patrol42
12-24-2012, 11:59 AM
This guy is a TON better than LaPierre. I am a new gun owner and have never paid much attention to the NRA but LaPierre just comes across terribly and never seems to answer a question directly. Keene is much more thought out, not nearly as condescending but still has a nice command. The NRA should keep him in the forefront and not LaPierre.

I agree 100% they should let LaPierra stay behind the scenes and use Keene as the speaker.

SanPedroShooter
12-24-2012, 12:22 PM
Because in California angry people need to "cool off"for 10 days so they won't kill the person that made them very angry.
Like when the Hollywood elitists and their worshipers (who were all for banning guns) got schooled during the Rodney King riots. Some of them went to buy guns for protection from rioters there and they were told to pick them up after 10 days. Lol

Back then it was 15 days....

The LA riots was another time I can remember lines out the door of gun stores. I can only imagine the cries of disbelief when all those people found out they were going to have to wait 15 days to pick their gun up....

sholling
12-24-2012, 12:36 PM
Because in California angry people need to "cool off"for 10 days so they won't kill the person that made them very angry.
Like when the Hollywood elitists and their worshipers (who were all for banning guns) got schooled during the Rodney King riots. Some of them went to buy guns for protection from rioters there and they were told to pick them up after 10 days. Lol
The Democrats in the legislature had a cow over Asian business people arming themselves to defend their lives and property. They wanted the business people to leave and allow the animals (Democrat voters) to loot and vandalize private property to their hearts content. Disarming the masses is a fetish with Progressives.

kouye
12-24-2012, 2:06 PM
So it appears that David Gregory's children go to a school with an 11 person security department and yet he hammers WLP with the NRA stance on that.

If this story is true, it is too bad WLP didn't have the info. with him to hammer back, although NBC probably would have edited that part out...

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/gregory-mocks-lapierre-proposing-armed-guards-sends-kids-high-security-school_691057.html

Jack L
12-24-2012, 2:12 PM
Wayne is right.

Fact Check here;

http://www.examiner.com/article/fact-check-columbine-high-s-armed-guard-saved-student-lives

The Shadow
12-24-2012, 3:51 PM
I wish LaPierre had said that he supports gun legislation that focuses on guns carried by criminals and not by law abiding citizens. Gregory made a generalized statement about gun legislation, and I think that's where Wayne fell short with that question.

The Shadow
12-24-2012, 4:18 PM
This guy is a TON better than LaPierre. I am a new gun owner and have never paid much attention to the NRA but LaPierre just comes across terribly and never seems to answer a question directly. Keene is much more thought out, not nearly as condescending but still has a nice command. The NRA should keep him in the forefront and not LaPierre.

But he still missed the mark, and when asked why he didn't support new gun legislation, should have said, "Because new legislation doesn't focus on criminals and the insane, it focuses on guns that belong to law abiding citizens."

billmaykafer
12-24-2012, 6:10 PM
what would jesus say? LUKE 22:34-38 buy a sword even if you have to sell your garment.

Herodotus
12-24-2012, 11:41 PM
That white stuff on the corner of his mouth...

Which could be a sign of dehydration. He looked exhausted and his skin looked dry. As a 16 year career paramedic who has extensive experience treating geriatric patients that would be my best educated guess without actually examining Mr. La Pierre. I would not want be in that man's shoes during that interview.

Mulay El Raisuli
12-25-2012, 8:35 AM
Wayne is right.

Fact Check here;

http://www.examiner.com/article/fact-check-columbine-high-s-armed-guard-saved-student-lives


Thank you! Link saved for future use.


The Raisuli


P.S. BTW, who's the actor in your avatar?

formerTexan
12-25-2012, 8:53 AM
CNN decided to pick out WLP's line "call me crazy" in their short segment on WLP's appearance on the Sunday talk show about armed security/cops at schools. It is sad that anyone on the correct side of the issues, the side that is disliked by most of the media, really has to think about how each word and phrase will be used against them, while Biden, 0bama, et al can say anything and not worry. Don't take this a bash against WLP/NRA, it is a bash against CNN.

CNN also did not point out that the proposal was same as Slick Willie's in 2000, and comparable to Babs Ma'am Boxer's call for the National Guard to guard schools. Just the "call me crazy" line. Just another reason why I don't bother with CNN.

Vindo310
12-27-2012, 1:52 AM
Not impressed with WLP.
When he was confronted with the 30 round mag he should have said;
"Do you know how many people were killed with guns that use those last year?"
"No."
"take a guess. 400 or 4000?"
If he refuses to answer or doesn't know you say "you don't even know do you. And you want to ban it anyway. The answer is less than 400. More people are killed with hands than with that mag. what's your next idea?"

Or
He should have made the point that it is very easy to change 10 round mags.
Or
"What other "ban" in US history would you pattern your proposed ban? Prohibition of Alcohol? War on drugs, Ban on prostitution?" You would just give drug smugglers a new profit source."
Exactly. He was saying that a ban on 30rd mags wouldn't help but he needed to tell the audience why it wouldn't help.

There is also a ban on stealing guns and murdering kids but that didn't stop that dude. What would making a magazine illegal do when you are talking about someone who has made their mind up to live outside of the law.

The facts and logic are on our side. We are the ones who know about this subject. We should be able to talk circles around these hacks. I support the NRA but WLP didn't do as well as he should have.

wildhawker
12-27-2012, 2:45 AM
Think again...if you show them that reloading is easy, then Bullet Buttons will become required nationally...

just tell them to show you the science backing the assertion that reloading lowers body counts

Make no mistake: you should fully expect any fed AWB legislation to include a ban on maglocks. LCTPGV/LCAV are going to ensure that.

-Brandon

wildhawker
12-27-2012, 2:46 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A_HOLd8CMAAE4PE.png:large

-Brandon

Ford8N
12-27-2012, 6:49 AM
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MEET_THE_PRESS_AMMUNITION?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

yellowfin
12-27-2012, 2:36 PM
Back then it was 15 days....

The LA riots was another time I can remember lines out the door of gun stores. I can only imagine the cries of disbelief when all those people found out they were going to have to wait 15 days to pick their gun up....And it appears they learned exactly nothing from that at all.