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View Full Version : Cali Assault Weapon storage question


savasyn
08-14-2007, 6:35 PM
Hi all, I asked this question over at TheFiringLine.com and they suggested that I come over here and ask. I'm clear that no response can be taken as legal advice, I'm primarily looking for the general consensus interpretation.

I just tried reading through all the legal mumbo jumbo that is the California Assault Weapons Ban. A lawyer, I am not!

I'm trying to find out if I can store my registered rifles at my folk's place while I'm on vacation. I have a safe over there that they do not have access into that I can use.

From what little I understood, this might be considered "lending", which is bad.

Do they have to be stored at the address listed on the registration form at all times other than going to and from the specified events listed in the ban?

Thanks!!

pnkssbtz
08-14-2007, 6:42 PM
Let me get this straight, you have a California Registered Assault weapon, and you do not have a gun safe?

Or is this question in reference to a non-registered assault weapon?

savasyn
08-14-2007, 6:53 PM
I currently have registered rifles here in lockable gun cabinets(I can't do a full safe here.) When we go on vacation, I'd prefer to put them in a real safe at my folks house, where A)people will be and B)Nobody but me has the key/combo to get in.

I'm trying to find out if this is legal or considered illegal "lending" or some other infraction against our lovely AWB.

bwiese
08-14-2007, 7:17 PM
If your parents *own* the property and don't rent, squat on, lease, etc. it, and you had a safe there that you exclusively have access to (and perhaps a signed 'rental agreement' for small nominal yearly amount) then you should be OK.

If you actually lived there (with ID, etc.) that flies too. I wouldn't play games with just changing my DL and throwing 3 shirts in the closet, however. More practically, a guy and his girlfriend living together under one roof (as an example) shouldn't have to worry about the GF getting charged with AW possession.

Do note that because of a possibly inadvertent quirk in Calif's AW laws, you cannot bring over an AW - even though registered and legally owned! - while visiting someone's (including your parents'!) *rented* home without the landlord's permission. Similarly, don't take your reg'd AW over to a buddy's apartment: even though your buddy gives you permission, that's not enough. [This appears not to apply to businesses even on leased/rented property, just residences.]

savasyn
08-14-2007, 7:29 PM
Excellent, thank you! My folks do own, so perhaps "renting" the space from there after officially asking their permission would do the trick.

Thanks for the tip on the landlord permission thing, I'll store that one away for future reference.

I think it's kind of interesting that I have to jump through hoops to make these rifles more safe and less likely to fall into the hands of criminals. Seems counter productive to the "intent" of banning them in the first place...

bwiese
08-14-2007, 8:33 PM
Excellent, thank you! My folks do own, so perhaps "renting" the space from there after officially asking their permission would do the trick.

Separate from any rental agreement matters, or the rent vs own landlord permission issues, "assault weapons" possession/use/transport onto the premises of other parties requires their express knowledge and permission. "Pops, can I lock imy rifles here?" is too generic a question, and for everyone's legal comfort they should know your rifles fit into a special legal category.

It's probably a good idea with the rental agreement concept to also let them know that they cannot consent to a search of your safe (which after renting would be essentially akin to your home, apt. etc - a place under your control and not someone else's). For a search warrant I believe the safe would have to be mentioned on it - if your folks were search for reasons of their own (and not relating to you) the safe really wouldn't be legally searchable as my understanding goes and in any case would need to be mentioned on warrant.


Thanks for the tip on the landlord permission thing, I'll store that one away for future reference.

I should really make it clear that this applies to a legal AW owner visiting someone else's rented/leased residence. It does NOT apply to the AW owner's own residence, which can indeed be rented and no landlord AW permission needed.

I think it's kind of interesting that I have to jump through hoops to make these rifles more safe and less likely to fall into the hands of criminals. Seems counter productive to the "intent" of banning them in the first place...

The more we examine CA AW laws the more holes we find in them. Some of these holes are fatal flaws :)

Piper
08-14-2007, 8:41 PM
If I understand the laws, just remove the upper receiver from the lower receiver and voila, no more AW. Problem solved.

C.G.
08-14-2007, 8:52 PM
If I understand the laws, just remove the upper receiver from the lower receiver and voila, no more AW. Problem solved.
The lower is registered as an AW, thus it will always be an AW in PRK(unless sold out of PRK or unless laws are changed), regardless whether it has an upper or not, if the lower is listed (which I assume it is).

-aK-
08-14-2007, 8:52 PM
If I understand the laws, just remove the upper receiver from the lower receiver and voila, no more AW. Problem solved.

He would have to either remove the pistol grip and/or collapsable stock or fix the mag not remove the upper.

Steyr_223
08-14-2007, 8:54 PM
"If I understand the laws, just remove the upper receiver from the lower receiver and voila, no more AW. Problem solved."

Your register AW lower is still an AW even if the upper is removed, I would think. Example a Colt AR lower registered under Roberti Roos.

C.G.
08-14-2007, 8:54 PM
He would have to either remove the pistol grip and/or collapsable stock or fix the mag.

If the lower is listed that won't work. Only Evans could do that for a while by welding the magwell.

-aK-
08-14-2007, 8:56 PM
If the lower is listed that won't work. Only Evans could do that for a while by welding the magwell.

Definitely a good point.

hoffmang
08-14-2007, 10:43 PM
But is a registered lower with no upper a semi automatic firearm? Remember that the frame is not a firearm for PC 12276.

Heh.

-Gene

bwiese
08-14-2007, 11:07 PM
But is a registered lower with no upper a semi automatic firearm? Remember that the frame is not a firearm for PC 12276.

Heh.

-Gene

Correct. This was even mentioned in the legislative analysis during the hashing out of AB2728 last year.

A Cat III AW (not banned by name) can clearly have evil features removed and be treated as a normal non-AW rifle despite registration. I have this personally from Asst Dir DOJ Firearms Div./Deputy AG Tim Rieger, with Randy Rossi looking on, at a 'Meet the DOJ' Golden State 2nd Amendment Council dinner meeting in 2004. Don Kilmer and Jess Guy (fomer Kilmer partner, ex-ATF regional office directdor before going into private practice law) were both there as well, with Don brokering some of the questions.