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View Full Version : What can we do to help the political climate.


pitfighter
12-22-2012, 1:05 PM
I am a fairly long time collector.
My collection is mainly pre-1945 -
But I also have some valuable and rare, "assault weapons" from the 50's, 60's and 70's.
All registered and owned prior to 2000.

I am not a hunter, or a target shooter - I am a collector.
(This category seems to have become something akin to being a psycho, or they just fail to acknowledge it. The firearm collection goes along with about 1000 reference books, first editions of military and firearms books, rare military documents and uniforms.)

Q - Why does anyone need a 30 round magazine?
A - Because this is a Mkb42 Magazine and is one the first every made, and in and of itself a rare and important piece of firearms history.

Q - Why does anyone need an assault weapon?
A - Because this is an original L1A1 - that was used in the Falklands Campaign, and is of great historical and military importance.

Q - Why does anyone need a feeding device over ten rounds?
A - Because this is an original 1939 manufactured MG34 belt, unused and in original cosmolene, it is important because it shows the vast difference in manufacturing between '39 and '45.

There are hundreds of such Q and A's - but they will all be ignored, unless someone steps forward, which right now is basically political suicide.

What can we do to help our situation?

Listening to the TV and radio, it seems they are going after pretty much everything I have.
They are welcome to buy it back from me, but at the price they would be worth when I sell them in ten years for my children's college funds.
That is a facetious comment, but you get my drift - these were bought for many reasons, their investment value is certainly one of them.
*I am aware of course these pretty much all have to be sold legally out of state, but that doesn't affect their value to me and my family.

What are other collectors doing to help the scenario?
Burying them in the yard, acting like a criminal are not on my option list.
I refuse to be looked on as a criminal because of an interest in history and firearms.

It would really seem like staying silent right now, which for most morally conscientious people is the respectful thing to do - is going to lose us the right to keep many of these weapons.

Pit.
PS. Please think before responding, there are many witty and seemingly funny answers you could come up with, but this post is a little more serious than many of mine, and I ask folks to take some time to think over their response. There's a time and place for serious pause, and we might well be coming on one of them right now.

jim casey
12-22-2012, 1:26 PM
I, like you, have been collecting a long time. My original rationale for a C&R license was to protect my rights to own items like a snail drum luger magazine and original shoulder stocked pistols. I honestly believe the best defense against eroding rights is to monitor the voting of our representatives. Politicians,by their nature, take the easy road out of a situation. We need to make it clear that we will hold them responsible for their actions. I think it wise to look at the gay community as to how to make a single issue into a "do or die" position as voting records are well publicized to the masses. Our numbers need to be well-stated, if not overstated.

SamGoldstein
12-22-2012, 1:38 PM
Here's somethjing you can do: Go to this website and tell these gun-grabbers how you really feel. http://www.demandaplan.org/

We should flood them with our opinions too.

pitfighter
12-22-2012, 1:54 PM
Jim - there is a saying, the firearms community is 5 million with a voice of 50.
The folks who are currently doing the talking for us, are going to get us in some serious hot water, if it continues the way it is.

The Duck shooting baptist leader on the radio yesterday, who said he could; "... see no good reason why anyone needs an "assault" magazine..."

This twit doesn't speak for me in anyway, at all.

The left is currently more aggressive and under educated than at anytime I have ever witnessed.

Pit.
If someone was shooting at me - and I have been shot at - I would prefer my assailant to have an AK over a old fashioned bolt action.
You don't get wounded by a 7.62x54, .303. 8x57mm, they disembowel and eviscerate you.
But, perhaps we shouldn't publicize this fact.

zhyla
12-22-2012, 5:38 PM
I'm not sure the exact context you're talking about but I don't think there's much positive influence collectors can exert. Everyone freaks out as soon as you mention you have more than a couple firearms.

jyo
12-22-2012, 5:57 PM
It's hard to need to "justify" my "need" to collect and shoot certain kinds of firearms. My nephew's wife (who has gone shooting with me and other members of the family) is a good example---her husband has a couple of pistols and a rifle and she thinks thats just fine---but why would he want to buy more? Does he "need" them, of course not---does he enjoy them and want a few more---yeah. She looks at me as a older uncle fellow who has influence on her husband (its true, I've taken him out shooting since he was a kid)---the look on her face when she asked me "how many guns do you have?" was the classic "Why so many?" when I didn't give her a firm number, just "More than ten."
It is hard for them to understand, but she knows I'm not a wacko, just someone she knows who likes guns.

Mutant
12-22-2012, 7:36 PM
Gun Control, a bunch of people fully ignorant about what they are doing.

1. I first point out that gun control people are uninformed. For example, imagine a room full of people that have never played golf sitting in a room and figuring out which clubs are necessary, how many and what form. Like "this flat one is short and purdy, why would anyone need anything else." Or "what could you possibly need this big metal one for, it looks dangerous - can it." etc., etc., etc.

2. Or ask them "what is an assault rifle?" You sometimes get “its the military use." You ask "what do the military use?" Answer ends up I don't really know the specifics but they should be banned." You might say “does it make sense to ban something when you are completely ignorant about it? How do you decide the particulars?" "Do you know automatics have been banned since the 1930s?"

3. Then I go into mantra about---cocaine has been banned - how did that work out? Heroin is banned - does it no longer exist in society? What about banned grass - guess the ban stopped everyone from smoking it right? Oh, there was this thing called Prohibition - did you hear how that worked out?

Listen - if you want to insure a criminal infrastructure and a criminal presence in your community, ban something people use and want. Cartels spring up like flowers. AND, when did banning something ever work. Maybe it was making Rx pills illegal for kids without a Rx. Guess that never happens because it was made illegal. Any criminal making a large buck off that enterprise?

Come on folks, open your eyes to history and the concept of unintended consequences. Wake up before you do more harm to society.

And I need the assault rifle and large magazine because the evil men will have them and I will not be handicapped by you, just because you are comfortable as the prey for the predators.

oftenindeed
12-22-2012, 7:53 PM
I don't normally get into these sorts of discussions but this time, I'm not sure I can resist. By the way, I saw this recently and think it's a good starting point especially for those not well educated in firearms: http://bradtaylorbooks.com/2012/12/a-simple-primer-on-assault-weapons/
I think on this issue you have to be in one of two camps: you think there should be regulations on guns or none whatsoever.
Do you want anyone to have the ability to obtain a weapon? Can anyone have a machine gun (plenty of those are collectible)? Can we have cannons/artillery? What about RPGs? What about different types of ammo? Why shouldn't a 17year old be allowed to buy a gun when some of them have graduated high school and are independent? I'm throwing out extremes here to make a point: most of us, in our heart of hearts, think that there should be some gun control out there.
Another example: I read a lot of people on here mentioning how public ranges scare them, they refuse to go, people are unsafe, etc. Those same people then advocate for the removal of restrictions on weapons and their purchase. How such thoughts are reconciled in someone's brain baffled me for a while. But I think one of the ways those conflicting thoughts coexist is the belief that that individual person is not one of those being unsafe. So why is he having to be subjected to the pains of regulations when he is law-abiding? Most laws, however, are not there for the majority of society, who probably need very little legislation to begin with, but to regulate the fringes. Having a background check for most of us is unnecessary and an annoyance, but it's not geared toward us. Most of us could also responsibly own full auto guns without inflicting violence on society, but again that law isn't geared toward us.
So...if you think that someone out there should not have the ability to buy certain firearms, you believe in gun control in my mind. Now that's out of the way, I think we can all start by helping draw out that line even if it means having to make compromises.

As an aside: Pit, I enjoy your posts and have respect for your knowledge. I've learned a thing or two lurking here. These comments aren't directed at you individually. Thank you for starting what will be an interesting conversation.

ElvenSoul
12-22-2012, 8:08 PM
Tell your neighbors where to buy guns. :)

pitfighter
12-22-2012, 8:59 PM
Oftenindeed,

Those are very well thought out points.
Certainly helping to draft the compromise would be the way to go, rather than walking away from the table and hoping for the best.
I am just not sure how we do this - or get involved, constructively.

I listened to the NRA speech, and I don't think pointing fingers at video games and blaming 18 year old movies (NBK) showed them, as an organization, to be anything but outdated, and afraid to take any kind of blame.
Yes, they have fought for freedom, and it was that freedom that has sadly contributed towards many murders, etc., but it ALSO that same freedom that makes America truly great, and special, in many, many ways - of that they should be proud.

Freedom is far from free - I think we're about to get a taste of European style legislation and that's a shame.



Pit.

lasbrg
12-23-2012, 10:33 AM
I'm typing on an iPhone so this will be brief. The only way forward that I see that has any chance of success is to depoliticize the issue. Outreach must be made to ALL groups that supported Obama: Blacks, Latinos, women, LGBTs, the young and, yes, Liberals. Tailor your arguments for each group. Don't sound in any way threatening. Having the cause seen as right-wing is a losing strategy. Being identified as "Republican" is an even more guaranteed road to failure. Republican politicians are back-peddling now ("I'm a hunter, I don't see the need for ..."). The left-right approach is the "47%" fallacy all over again.

EVERYONE should see the wisdom of the 2nd Amendment. Give them some ownership and responsibility for it as well.

pitfighter
12-23-2012, 8:11 PM
Very good ideas, Lasbrg!



Pit.

pitfighter
01-11-2013, 12:53 AM
Who knows what good this kind of thing does, but, I was feeling frustrated.

I don't think it's much, and I noticed grammar errors after I sent it, and it's way too wordy, lol - but, I sent this to Brad Sherman via his site: http://bradsherman.house.gov/contact/


Your message:
I would like to share a link to an interview on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3tq22fNs0k It basically states the way I feel, as do many of the other firearms collectors I know - that the recent terrible and horrific events in Sandy Hook and elsewhere are going to be used as political material to bring about unfair and sweeping laws that will destroy the hobby we all take very seriously.

I personally do not own assault weapons, my collection is pre-1945, and is made up of historically speaking, very rare items, that are studied and written about, on the internet and in print. I do not hunt, I despise that recreation, I do not shoot targets, my firearms are too valuable and rare, to risk damaging in that way.

Not one of them was designed for sport, they are historical artifacts, used in the wars that shaped the modern world, painful as it is they represent a part of history that must not be forgotten - as Richard Burton wrote, the history or man and the history of the sword are as one.

I urge you to visit the many on-line collectors forums - there are thousands of legal and in many cases specifically licensed collectors like me, many in California, and many in your district who are terrified of the coming legislation.

We feel demonized our hobby is being belittled and ridiculed and we are being forced to take on a pariah status. These collectors are intellectuals, teachers, professors, scholars and writers, history buffs and law abiding professionals.
These are people who read, study, discuss and write about their hobby, we have shaped books that have rewritten chapters in history, down to the study in our field. It may only be numbers; factory codes, and serial numbers, but when the factories were in Buchenwald or Neuengamme, the historical importance becomes relevant.

Historical gun collectors are people used to living low key, legally observing the myriad of laws and regulations associated with our hobby, we are now unfortunately voiceless, scared to speak for fear of being singled out as a potential loony - it is draconian and sad situation.

I came to this country twenty years ago, drawn by it's great freedoms, it's tremendous opportunities and wondrously optimistic state of mind, and have not once been disappointed or regretful - I grew up in the UK, the strict firearms and weapon laws there do not protect you from violence - it is a FAR, far more violent place than Los Angeles, a sad and depressing little country, of little people, small in ambition and lacking in adventure - whose freedoms have become as lost as it's own sense of self worth.

Please think carefully about the future of this GREAT state, and this great country about it's glorious freedoms and the reasons, historical and philosophical, that it is so great, so distinct and so special. There are MANY who will follow you, if you give them hope.

There are tough questions being asked - the answer to which does not lay in taking away legally owned firearms from responsible adults, no matter what type they are. The answer lies in fixing the broken youth, and punishing the criminals who abuse the great freedoms offered in this great country. Sincerely,

My name and website.

Pit.

pitfighter
01-11-2013, 12:54 AM
Who knows what good this kind of thing does, but, I was feeling frustrated.

I don't think it's much, and I noticed grammar errors after I sent it, and it's way too wordy, lol - but, I sent this to Brad Sherman via his site: http://bradsherman.house.gov/contact/


Your message:
I would like to share a link to an interview on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3tq22fNs0k It basically states the way I feel, as do many of the other firearms collectors I know - that the recent terrible and horrific events in Sandy Hook and elsewhere are going to be used as political material to bring about unfair and sweeping laws that will destroy the hobby we all take very seriously.

I personally do not own assault weapons, my collection is pre-1945, and is made up of historically speaking, very rare items, that are studied and written about, on the internet and in print. I do not hunt, I despise that recreation, I do not shoot targets, my firearms are too valuable and rare, to risk damaging in that way.

Not one of them was designed for sport, they are historical artifacts, used in the wars that shaped the modern world, painful as it is they represent a part of history that must not be forgotten - as Richard Burton wrote, the history of man and the history of the sword are as one.

I urge you to visit the many on-line collectors forums - there are thousands of legal and in many cases specifically licensed collectors like me, many in California, and many in your district who are terrified of the coming legislation.

We feel demonized our hobby is being belittled and ridiculed and we are being forced to take on a pariah status. These collectors are intellectuals, teachers, professors, scholars and writers, history buffs and law abiding professionals.
These are people who read, study, discuss and write about their hobby, we have shaped books that have rewritten chapters in history, down to the study in our field. It may only be numbers; factory codes, and serial numbers, but when the factories were in Buchenwald or Neuengamme, the historical importance becomes relevant.

Historical gun collectors are people used to living low key, legally observing the myriad of laws and regulations associated with our hobby, we are now unfortunately voiceless, scared to speak for fear of being singled out as a potential loony - it is draconian and sad situation.

I came to this country twenty years ago, drawn by it's great freedoms, it's tremendous opportunities and wondrously optimistic state of mind, and have not once been disappointed or regretful - I grew up in the UK, the strict firearms and weapon laws there do not protect you from violence - it is a FAR, far more violent place than Los Angeles, a sad and depressing little country, of little people, small in ambition and lacking in adventure - whose freedoms have become as lost as it's own sense of self worth.

Please think carefully about the future of this GREAT state, and this great country about it's glorious freedoms and the reasons, historical and philosophical, that it is so great, so distinct and so special. There are MANY who will follow you, if you give them hope.

There are tough questions being asked - the answer to which does not lay in taking away legally owned firearms from responsible adults, no matter what type they are. The answer lies in fixing the broken youth, and punishing the criminals who abuse the great freedoms offered in this great country. Sincerely,

My name and website.

Pit.

NOTABIKER
01-11-2013, 6:26 AM
so they want me to register my SKS and M1A. also can never sell it. when i die it must be destroyed. if that does not bother you ?????
were getting close my friends.
i think it is the beginning of the end ,not the end of the be ginning.rights are hard to get back after we loose them. big government [both parties] want to control you.

BrokerB
01-11-2013, 9:13 AM
your q and A ' s have nothing to do with the 2a, and I think even saying stuff like that will draw blank stares from non gun owners " important part of history"..to you and a few other gun freaks is what is thought by vast majority, nothing personal.

Its not for 'sporting or collecting". I think that mind said is incredibly dangerous and is why we are where we are with 2a. NRA for decades did not care about us folks with semi autos' it appeared to me they were protecting old white men with $4,000 double barrels.

Its to protect us from criminals- gov. and public.
Join and support as many 2a groups as possible. Anytime you hear FUD/ or "why would you need 30 rounds/100 rounds/ pistol grip blah blah, correct them- be proud and loud about your support of our Constitution. Its not about history/collecting- its about defense from tyranny be it gov sponsored or dirt bag

Mutant
01-11-2013, 9:18 AM
Join the NRA. It is the major leader in persuasion of legislators. Even if some of what it does irritates you, remember Ronnie Regan's concept-----------I want an 80% friend even if I do not like 20% of the same friend. Do not be derailed by myopia.

pitfighter
01-11-2013, 9:25 AM
You're right BrokerB - I was probably letting emotions get the better of me, but that is why this kind of discussion is important.
The truth is almost any pro-gun argument causes blank stares amongst the anti-gun crowd.
I'm trying a different tact. But, I suspect you're right, the constitution is the only real legal protection we have right now.

Mutant - you're right, too, I do not like much of the NRA's viewpoint, but it is closer to mine than the alternative.

I think any action is worthwhile - sitting polishing your guns while we watch our freedoms vanish is the only thing we can do that is wrong.

Pit.

eightmd
01-11-2013, 9:33 AM
The most important thing we can each do is VOTE. Of course that is true of both sides and any issue. Don't let an election go by that you don't know what propositions and candidates are out there, and vote for what your support even if you feel negative about the process and outcome.

The next important thing is to contact all the representatives and elected officials you can in relation to the issue and let them know how you feel, respectfully.

Beyond that there are other things, but I think these are the 2 basic things that everyone should do.

What I have heard, is that 45% of the people are gun advocates in some form and 45% of the people are agains guns. If that is true (?not sure just what I heard?), that means these issues are going to be decided by 10% of the people. That means the contest is always going to be close. If all 45% of your side gets out to vote, that will make a big difference in this contest.

Pit, I appreciate your position and what you have said above. I was a little taken aback but your letter in it seems that you are willing to throw all of us terrible, degenerate hunters, and weirdos that like building and shooting AKs under the bus. I too am a collector, although it sounds like yours is bigger than mine... But I also like to hunt, build firearms, and shoot all the different kinds. I'm not trying to start a fight. I know you are worried about your hobby, and I'm worried about my hobbies also. We have to remember that we are all in this together, and have to support all law-abiding gun owners.

eightmd
01-11-2013, 9:34 AM
The most important thing we can each do is VOTE. Of course that is true of both sides and any issue. Don't let an election go by that you don't know what propositions and candidates are out there, and vote for what your support even if you feel negative about the process and outcome.

The next important thing is to contact all the representatives and elected officials you can in relation to the issue and let them know how you feel, respectfully.

Beyond that there are other things, but I think these are the 2 basic things that everyone should do.

What I have heard, is that 45% of the people are gun advocates in some form and 45% of the people are agains guns. If that is true (?not sure just what I heard?), that means these issues are going to be decided by 10% of the people. That means the contest is always going to be close. If all 45% of your side gets out to vote, that will make a big difference in this contest.

Pit, I appreciate your position and what you have said above. I was a little taken aback but your letter in it seems that you are willing to throw all of us terrible, degenerate hunters, and weirdos that like building and shooting AKs under the bus. I too am a collector, although it sounds like yours is bigger than mine... But I also like to hunt, build firearms, and shoot all the different kinds. I'm not trying to start a fight. I know you are worried about your hobby, and I'm worried about my hobbies also. We have to remember that we are all in this together, and have to support all law-abiding gun owners.

pitfighter
01-11-2013, 9:51 AM
Lol, Eightmd,

No, no, no, I am not interested in throwing anyone under any bus, or arguing with other gun owners - hell no! - and for lords sake don't go getting upset or offended by my letter, that would be being over sensitive - regardless, my sincerest apologies if it did offend - it was not intended to.
(My collection is extremely mediocre compared to many So-Cal other collectors I know, I am simply attempting to make a point in the letter.)

It is a letter to a very liberal politician - I am seeking a middle ground that might resonate with him - on an intellectual level, lol (presuming that either I or he is intellectual is a joke, though.)

It's a total distortion of the truth, I have a small collection of pre-2000 legally registered assault weapons, I love them - Hell, I have a semi version of the first assault rifle the MP44 - actually, when it was in it's original configuration it was an actual assault weapon, as opposed to the bandying around of the term nowadays.

- I do dislike hunting, but wouldn't think of stopping anyone from doing what they loved, my point is that there is yet another category of gun owner.

I don't think my letter will even get read, or acknowledged - but as I said, I was trying to find a different tact. I am inclined to agree with BrokerB, about the 2A being our best defense.

I am trying to get people thinking here - and if I can stir you into action of any type, I have succeeded in my goal, right???


Pit.

eightmd
01-11-2013, 10:42 AM
I'm not affended. I know we are all on the same team for this one.

You're right in that we all should be thinking about this, and doing what we can to get our representatives thinking and knowing that we will vote our minds on this.

Again I wasn't affended but just to tell you where I was coming from: We recently have been having a fight in Calif. over the MLPA. The PETA type people want to try and ban most fishing everywhere. Some in the sportfishing camp have pointed the finger at the commercial fishermen saying they cause 100 times more impact that us. Affect commercial fishing if you have to, but leave the sportfishing alone. PETA doesn't care, they want to ban it all. We are stronger in numbers, than divided.

glennsche
01-11-2013, 12:10 PM
Gun Control, a bunch of people fully ignorant about what they are doing.

1. I first point out that gun control people are uninformed. For example, imagine a room full of people that have never played golf sitting in a room and figuring out which clubs are necessary, how many and what form. Like "this flat one is short and purdy, why would anyone need anything else." Or "what could you possibly need this big metal one for, it looks dangerous - can it." etc., etc., etc.

2. Or ask them "what is an assault rifle?" You sometimes get “its the military use." You ask "what do the military use?" Answer ends up I don't really know the specifics but they should be banned." You might say “does it make sense to ban something when you are completely ignorant about it? How do you decide the particulars?" "Do you know automatics have been banned since the 1930s?"

3. Then I go into mantra about---cocaine has been banned - how did that work out? Heroin is banned - does it no longer exist in society? What about banned grass - guess the ban stopped everyone from smoking it right? Oh, there was this thing called Prohibition - did you hear how that worked out?

Listen - if you want to insure a criminal infrastructure and a criminal presence in your community, ban something people use and want. Cartels spring up like flowers. AND, when did banning something ever work. Maybe it was making Rx pills illegal for kids without a Rx. Guess that never happens because it was made illegal. Any criminal making a large buck off that enterprise?

Come on folks, open your eyes to history and the concept of unintended consequences. Wake up before you do more harm to society.

And I need the assault rifle and large magazine because the evil men will have them and I will not be handicapped by you, just because you are comfortable as the prey for the predators.

the fact that legislators are by and large relatively illiterate is not a reason to refuse to engage.

this would be like google saying "these govt guys dont know anything about the internet, why should we talk to them about SOPA". Or "these straight people dont understand gays, why should we talk to them about gay rights" or "these men dont get pregnant, why should we talk to them about abortion rights when they know nothing".

Why? Because the govt WILL make legislation on the matter, and the group that knows the most and has its interests dearest to heart MUST TAKE PART or the legislation that will pass will be done without ANY input from the people who know the most about it.

in short, if the gun community doesnt take part in the current electorate's drive to prevent a further Connecticut shooting, then what comes out of it will be far worse than were they to've sat at the table, engaged, and tried to educate and inform the people who are going to pass the laws.

Red Devil
01-11-2013, 12:18 PM
I think all y'all are nuts.

Why do y'all get mired in all the little detail and nuances of...

... f*ckin' Subjugation.

1.0
The Constitution of the United States
Amendment II (1791)
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

2.0
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
"Come and take them..."

Why aren't all y'all at the front doors of your Marxist National Socialist politicians, armed, demanding that they respect Your Constitutional Rights as American Citizens... Or, if they refuse to, them now being Domestic Enemies and all, y'all make a Citizen's Arrest on them for crimes against the Constitution.

They're all y'all's mess... why don't y'all just clean it up...?

glennsche
01-11-2013, 12:30 PM
Why aren't all y'all at the front doors of your Marxist National Socialist politicians,

do you even know how incredibly stupid you sound when you call something marxist and national socialist at the same time? you might as well call something "wet dry".

words have meanings. look them up. enlighten yourself, and sound smarter than that Alex Jones

pitfighter
01-11-2013, 12:33 PM
Red Devil,

Most of us are working, family supporting average Joes - we can't just up and assemble in the street, or outside of a politician's home.

But, we can take some sort of action, and that is what this thread is about.

Although, I suppose your suggestion is something - I think it would be a lot easier for our critics to politically vilify and destroy any public support for us as a group if we start an armed insurrection, and frankly, I am uneasy taking on the US govt. with my 60 year old rifle, and dying over my gun rights isn't on the cards - I am ashamed to admit.

In jest of course, but I get your point, and appreciate the sentiment.

Pit.

Red Devil
01-11-2013, 2:05 PM
do you even know how incredibly stupid you sound when you call something marxist and national socialist at the same time? you might as well call something "wet dry"...

Marxism - The ideology of Communism - the confiscation of private property and the redistribution of wealth.

National Socialism - National Socialism was a form of state socialism that rejected the "idea of boundless freedom" and promoted an economy that would serve the whole of Germany under the leadership of the state.

So, along with confiscating and redistributing your wealth, they are also disarmin' you as a precursor to subjugation to the State. (that would be the National Democrat Socialist Party)

Is that about right...?

Red Devil
01-11-2013, 2:18 PM
Red Devil,

Most of us are working, family supporting average Joes - we can't just up and assemble in the street, or outside of a politician's home.

But, we can take some sort of action, and that is what this thread is about.

Although, I suppose your suggestion is something - I think it would be a lot easier for our critics to politically vilify and destroy any public support for us as a group if we start an armed insurrection, and frankly, I am uneasy taking on the US govt. with my 60 year old rifle, and dying over my gun rights isn't on the cards - I am ashamed to admit.

In jest of course, but I get your point, and appreciate the sentiment.

Pit.

Of course, as am I, as were the Founders.


I found this posted elsewhere on this site:

"It is not enough in a situation of trust in the commonwealth, that a man means well to his country; it is not enough that in his single person he never did an evil act, but always voted according to his conscience, and even harangued against every design which he apprehended to be prejudicial to the interests of his country. This innoxious and ineffectual character, that seems formed upon a plan of apology and disculpation, falls miserably short of the mark of public duty. That duty demands and requires that what is right should not only be made known, but made prevalent; that what is evil should not only be detected, but defeated. When the public man omits to put himself in a situation of doing his duty with effect it is an omission that frustrates the purposes of his trust almost as much as if he had formally betrayed it. It is surely no very rational account of a man's life, that he has always acted right but has taken special care to act in such a manner that his endeavours could not possibly be productive of any consequence."

- Edmund Burke - (1770) "Thoughts On The Cause Of The Present Discontents"

Things change... things stay the same.

The question is - What are you going to do about it?

Our Founders fought a War and gave us our Constitution.

backstrap
01-11-2013, 4:58 PM
Who knows what good this kind of thing does, but, I was feeling frustrated.

I don't think it's much, and I noticed grammar errors after I sent it, and it's way too wordy, lol - but, I sent this to Brad Sherman via his site: http://bradsherman.house.gov/contact/


Your message:
I would like to share a link to an interview on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3tq22fNs0k It basically states the way I feel, as do many of the other firearms collectors I know - that the recent terrible and horrific events in Sandy Hook and elsewhere are going to be used as political material to bring about unfair and sweeping laws that will destroy the hobby we all take very seriously.

I personally do not own assault weapons, my collection is pre-1945, and is made up of historically speaking, very rare items, that are studied and written about, on the internet and in print. I do not hunt, I despise that recreation, I do not shoot targets, my firearms are too valuable and rare, to risk damaging in that way.

Not one of them was designed for sport, they are historical artifacts, used in the wars that shaped the modern world, painful as it is they represent a part of history that must not be forgotten - as Richard Burton wrote, the history of man and the history of the sword are as one.

I urge you to visit the many on-line collectors forums - there are thousands of legal and in many cases specifically licensed collectors like me, many in California, and many in your district who are terrified of the coming legislation.

We feel demonized our hobby is being belittled and ridiculed and we are being forced to take on a pariah status. These collectors are intellectuals, teachers, professors, scholars and writers, history buffs and law abiding professionals.
These are people who read, study, discuss and write about their hobby, we have shaped books that have rewritten chapters in history, down to the study in our field. It may only be numbers; factory codes, and serial numbers, but when the factories were in Buchenwald or Neuengamme, the historical importance becomes relevant.

Historical gun collectors are people used to living low key, legally observing the myriad of laws and regulations associated with our hobby, we are now unfortunately voiceless, scared to speak for fear of being singled out as a potential loony - it is draconian and sad situation.

I came to this country twenty years ago, drawn by it's great freedoms, it's tremendous opportunities and wondrously optimistic state of mind, and have not once been disappointed or regretful - I grew up in the UK, the strict firearms and weapon laws there do not protect you from violence - it is a FAR, far more violent place than Los Angeles, a sad and depressing little country, of little people, small in ambition and lacking in adventure - whose freedoms have become as lost as it's own sense of self worth.

Please think carefully about the future of this GREAT state, and this great country about it's glorious freedoms and the reasons, historical and philosophical, that it is so great, so distinct and so special. There are MANY who will follow you, if you give them hope.

There are tough questions being asked - the answer to which does not lay in taking away legally owned firearms from responsible adults, no matter what type they are. The answer lies in fixing the broken youth, and punishing the criminals who abuse the great freedoms offered in this great country. Sincerely,

My name and website.

Pit.

Im sorry as soon as I heard you call semi auto rifles "assult rifles" I pictured Feinstein not knowing what a barrel shroud is. Being here for 20 years Youll get some slack but the 2a isnt for sport, not because we can, and its surely not for your "hobby" its to protect us from tyrants. Saying we dont "need" Semi automatic rifles is like spitting on the dead mens graves who fought to free us, your free speech you excersize right now was also from the blood of men who died to allow you, your right to keep arms. "I dont care about black rifles take those, just leave the old ones for us collectors" Heres some news for you, they took great britains pistols first 5 years later they took em all. Guns are guns you think a person who has never shot or held a gun and wants to take my semi autos will let you keep your relics? Youre mistaken, you need to research Austrailia and Great Britains gun bans, how they were started and what happens next because if it worked there it will be tried here.

a1c
01-11-2013, 5:27 PM
Im sorry as soon as I heard you call semi auto rifles "assult rifles" I pictured Feinstein not knowing what a barrel shroud is.

Just so you know, it was Carolyn McCarthy who didn't know what a barrel shroud was.

Make sure you know your enemies if you are going to denounce their ignorance.

hakenlag
01-11-2013, 5:35 PM
I wonder if anyone has ever won or retained their rights by asking nicely.

a1c
01-11-2013, 5:49 PM
I wonder if anyone has ever won or retained their rights by asking nicely.

Look up the Civil Rights movement.

It's not about asking nicely or not.

It's about playing it smart and not alienating the people on the fence.

pitfighter
01-11-2013, 9:01 PM
Backstrap,

I appreciate your defensive point of view - my letter was sent to a political representative, and as I mentioned I was trying a different tact, a more friendly conversational approach - continually pointing to the 2nd Amendment, may be the truth of it, but, there are plenty carrying on that approach. An amendment is a change, it can be changed again.
I get the "assault weapon" distinction see my earlier post - I should have used speech marks, sorry - hadn't planned on posting the letter here.
I posted it to get people like you angry, so that you might send your own letters - do it!
Then post your letter here so people can learn from your example, I have no interest in personal arguments with other gun owners.

I lived in Britain when Michael Ryan shot up the town and they used that horrific massacre to ban civilian ownership of many types of firearm - the turn in/deactivation process didn't start with pistols at all, but that is a small detail - he primarily used a Chinese AK47 in illegal configuration, and that style was where they started, dividing "types" of firearm into numbered sections, then very quickly restricted all but a few sections from civilian ownership.

My fear is that so many liberals see Britain as a wonderful place - well it took me ten years to become an American, and I had to study the constitution for my test, and in doing so I fell in love that piece of paper. My honest opinion is that all these new age gun haters - who have likely never visited the UK, anyway - should go live there.
The US would be a better place for it, and it would be a matter of days before they realized they had made the most idiotic decision of their lives.


Good luck,

Pit.

hakenlag
01-11-2013, 9:40 PM
Look up the Civil Rights movement.

It's not about asking nicely or not.

It's about playing it smart and not alienating the people on the fence.


Let's all be real quiet and maybe they'll leave us alone, eh?

I think if you were to do your homework, you might find the civil rights movement wasn't nearly as civil as you have probably been led to believe.

Red Devil
01-12-2013, 5:15 PM
Let's all be real quiet and maybe they'll leave us alone, eh?

I think if you were to do your homework, you might find the civil rights movement wasn't nearly as civil as you have probably been led to believe.

Depends who's version of the Truth you read.

There's one that is bein' pushed in the Public Schools, especially in places like the Soviet Province of LeftCoastastan, where the Democrat Socialists were the good guys...

...and not the ones w/ the fire-hoses, billy-clubs, attack-dogs, and rope to go along w/ their "Whites Only" Society.


Here's a little more light (enlightened?) readin' for the feel-good pacifists...

Negroes with Guns (African American Life) (http://www.amazon.com/Negroes-Guns-African-American-Life/dp/0814327141)

First published in 1962, "Negroes with Guns" is the story of a southern black community's struggle to arm itself in self-defense against the Ku Klux Klan and other racist groups. Frustrated and angered by violence condoned or abetted by the local authorities against blacks, the small community of Monroe, North Carolina, brought the issue of armed self-defense to the forefront of the civil rights movement. The single most important intellectual influence on Huey P. Newton, the founder of the Black Panther Party, "Negroes with Guns" is a classic story of a man who risked his life for democracy and freedom.

There is much being said about gun ownership and the Second Amendment. Robert Williams book clearly illustrates why even in out "civilized" age that the protection of you and your family depends upon you.

Williams found out about this the hard way when the police refused to assist him against a racist onslaught, but also when the NAACP turned on him too and revoked his NAACP charter for using a gun to save himself from being lynched!

Who would have thought that it would be the the NRA that would come to the aid of Williams and his beleaguered people?

Not exactly the image that the media would like us to have of the NRA, or the NAACP for that matter.

Please do not let the injustice that this man and his family suffered or the painful lessons learned here go to waste!

Fascinatin'...

a1c
01-12-2013, 6:30 PM
Let's all be real quiet and maybe they'll leave us alone, eh?

Don't caricature what I said. Don't oversimplify other people's opinions - because then you are part of the problem.

I didn't say you had to keep quiet. My point was that a lot of Alex Jones-like yelling is not going to help either.

You want to fight? Fight smart.

I think if you were to do your homework, you might find the civil rights movement wasn't nearly as civil as you have probably been led to believe.

Don't patronize me. I'm very much familiar with that part of history.

pitfighter
01-13-2013, 8:42 AM
One of the reasons I am glad I started this thread is because it will get people thinking and hopefully taking some sort of intelligent action.

I am a member of a lot of gun collecting sites, I love scanning around them in the evening to unwind.

Our rights are under attack, right now, in a pretty credible way.

There are a lot of big talking, name calling, tough guys on their keyboard - who basically throw around a lot of colorful language and then do...





...Absolutely nothing to help the situation.

I am hoping my letter irritated/inspired/motivated a few into actually writing their own letter, joining the NRA, something.

Please don't use this thread to attack each other's ideas - that is so far from the reason I posted.

Blessings and good luck,

Pit.

backstrap
01-13-2013, 10:59 AM
Heres an easy way to take action, Ruger will prepare the letters for you and send it to the polititains in your district. It takes 30 seconds to send several letters. Dont forget to pass it on.
http://www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/#

hakenlag
01-13-2013, 4:30 PM
One of the reasons I am glad I started this thread is because it will get people thinking and hopefully taking some sort of intelligent action.

I am a member of a lot of gun collecting sites, I love scanning around them in the evening to unwind.

Our rights are under attack, right now, in a pretty credible way.

There are a lot of big talking, name calling, tough guys on their keyboard - who basically throw around a lot of colorful language and then do...





...Absolutely nothing to help the situation.

I am hoping my letter irritated/inspired/motivated a few into actually writing their own letter, joining the NRA, something.

Please don't use this thread to attack each other's ideas - that is so far from the reason I posted.

Blessings and good luck,

Pit.

We keep doing the same thing and keep losing a little more every day. The only suggestions I've heard is to proactively continue to use the same failed strategies.

Anyway, this doesn't belong in C&R so unless a mod decides to move it to a more appropriate forum, I'm backing out of this one right now.

pitfighter
01-13-2013, 6:59 PM
I am a C&R collector who wants to do something to protect his hobby.

I don't hunt or target shoot - there are many political activists in those hobbies.

I know it all comes back to the 2nd amendment but I was asking what I can do to help, and looking for suggestions.
I wrote my representative - for what that was worth.
I joined the NRA -
Looking for more to do the same and other ideas.

I think this thread does belong in the C&R forum - the title of the thread isn't misleading.

Pit.

a1c
01-14-2013, 7:55 AM
I am a C&R collector who wants to do something to protect his hobby.

I don't hunt or target shoot - there are many political activists in those hobbies.

I know it all comes back to the 2nd amendment but I was asking what I can do to help, and looking for suggestions.
I wrote my representative - for what that was worth.
I joined the NRA -
Looking for more to do the same and other ideas.

I think this thread does belong in the C&R forum - the title of the thread isn't misleading.

Pit.

It doesn't matter that you consider your hobby distinct from that of target shooters or hunters.

The fact is that some legislators are right now writing legislation that could impact your rights as a collector.

You need to join the fight at large, not on a micro-niche level. The most important threat for us in California is coming from Sacramento where Lee and his allies are pushing for new restrictive, feel-good legislation that will have zero impact on crime but that could impact us all negatively.

Join the fight - donate to CGF.

steamerjames
01-14-2013, 8:13 AM
I'm sorry but i moved to TX in 2011.Moved to a free state where my C & R is really of some use-had a Luger pistol shipped to my door the day before Christmas-what a Chirstmas present.I now have a pro gun Senator.I had to leave because of my wifes job(i am retired) but am happy to live in TX, am glad i don't live in CA anymore.I do not have to worry what the nutjobs in Sacramento will think up next, i only worry about Congress.

NOTABIKER
01-14-2013, 10:56 AM
i was born in calif in 1947, it was paradise for a long time, best schools in the world, collage was cheep. plenty of jobs [ if you wanted to work]. i wonder what happened ?.
it was down hill after jerry brown took office. so what do we do put him back in charge.
BRILLIANT

pitfighter
01-14-2013, 5:51 PM
There's some good advice in this thread.
Writing congress, senators (not the two Californian ones) representatives.
Joining the NRA - sending money to political advocates.

I think I got my answers, I've tried to do my bit, hopefully others will too.
I still think firearms collectors are under represented politically, but that's the way it goes.

Signing out of this thread -


Pit.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p140/figaro1971/2012-01-24114801.jpg

Mutant
01-14-2013, 8:30 PM
Here is another one. Don't always argue the irrelevant with other gun supporters. Spend your efforts on the bad people and don't just try to show how smart you are to your friends. They all agree about firearms and won't ever agree how smart you are. I know, I've tried for 60 years and they know I am sharp as a ball bearing.

But I can persuade co-workers, family members, and any others I may cross about their lack of understanding re firearms. Many are just plain ignorant and some are willing to listen.

And join the NRA. It still is the bell weather that scares politicians.
The more members, the more strongly it can persuade. Like the news keeps pointing out 100,000 new members have signed up since Biden's quest. Imagine if it was a MILLION NEW members. Rachael Maddow would have to hide behind her only friends (that are small dams that hold water back) ----- and maybe she might have a seizure permanently destroying her tongue.

cycle61
01-14-2013, 9:10 PM
Having the cause seen as right-wing is a losing strategy. Being identified as "Republican" is an even more guaranteed road to failure.

THANK YOU!

lasbrg
01-23-2013, 5:44 PM
I am a C&R collector who wants to do something to protect his hobby.

I don't hunt or target shoot - there are many political activists in those hobbies.

I know it all comes back to the 2nd amendment but I was asking what I can do to help, and looking for suggestions.
I wrote my representative - for what that was worth.
I joined the NRA -
Looking for more to do the same and other ideas.

I think this thread does belong in the C&R forum - the title of the thread isn't misleading.

Pit.

I think the announcement today that women are now allowed to serve in combat roles could be very helpful. All the media is now posting admiring photos of women in uniform with guns (http://www.politico.com/gallery/2013/01/women-in-combat/000745-010636.html), M4s, M16s, etc.

Teach your daughter to shoot! It's all about equality.

Edit: More photos here (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324039504578260213863012062.html#s lide/2) and here (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/pentagon-chief-lifting-ban-women-serving-combat-article-1.1245979).