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View Full Version : Wayne LaPierre Just Screwed Us All By Opening His Mouth...


Darryl Licht
12-21-2012, 1:24 PM
First off to all the flamers n haters...
I love my guns and will fight to keep them, I firmly believe it is our right to keep them... no matter what some liberal in Sacramento or DC says.

View video here:
SZb8EXUrQTo

Good God I miss Charlton Heston!

Wayne LaPierre just did more for the anti-gun side in his 30 minute speech than their best lawyers have in 20 years! He screwed the pooch by opening his big damn mouth... At a time like this I feel he should have been more respectful and kept silent until after Christmas and then commented with a carefully formulated plan. He just poured gasoline on the campfire by suggesting armed guards posted at every school in the nation. The liberal press is already having a field day with it!

Then he suggests violent video games and movies are to blame, then shifts over to music with violent lyrics! Seems like he cannot make up his mind on who, or what, to blame! The only thing I didnt hear him blame is who I hold responsible... the news media! If they didnt sensationalize every damn one of these whack job killers then maybe they wouldnt look at it as their way to infamy and glory. <-- Again my opinion!

He comments how a child today witnesses 16,000 murders and 200,000 violent acts by the time they reach 18 years of age. And that's why these whackos do this stuff.

If his theory were to hold water then what about the children in post WWII Europe, Vietnam, kids today in war ravaged Israel/Gaza, or Iraq/Afganistan... They see real deaths/murders/violence everyday... Not television pretend stuff. Apply his theory there and we are helping to raise a new even more viscious generation of terrorists in the mid-east now!

The NRA and their security in DC should have anticipated all the whack job protestors and ID'd and frisked everyone before they could enter... Again no forethought or planning at all!

Another thing that chapped my hide is when he mentioned that there are 4 million moms and dads that are members of the NRA... 4.3 vs 311 million in US isnt much of the population! He would have been better off quoting the number of gun owners, which is a much larger number! I dont know if I will re-join the NRA now after this press conference, and I understand that they need us more than ever and we need them more than ever. Perhaps we need a new organization to assist us going down the road. Or we need a new board of directors in the NRA!

Doh!
186072

Please I didnt post this to get flamed... constructive comments here.

What was your opinion of this NRA News Conference?

RMP91
12-21-2012, 1:25 PM
First off to all the flamers n haters...
I love my guns and will fight to keep them, I firmly believe it is our right to keep them... no matter what some liberal in Sacramento or DC says.

View video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZb8EXUrQTo

Good God I miss Charlton Heston! Wayne LaPierre just did more for the anti-gun side in his 30 minute speech than their best lawyers have in 20 years! He screwed the pooch by opening his big damn mouth... At a time like this I feel he should have been more respectful and kept silent until after Christmas and then commented with a carefully formulated plan. He just poured gasoline on the campfire by suggesting armed guards posted at every school in the nation. The liberal press is already having a field day with it!

Then he suggests violent video games and movies are to blame, then shifts over to music with violent lyrics! Seems like he cannot make up his mind on who, or what, to blame! The only thing I didnt hear him blame is who I hold responsible... the news media! If they didnt sensationalize every damn one of these whack job killers then maybe they wouldnt look at it as their way to infamy and glory. <-- Again my opinion!

He comments how a child today witnesses 16,000 murders and 200,000 violent acts by the time they reach 18 years of age. And that's why these whackos do this stuff.

If his theory were to hold water then what about the children in post WWII Europe, Vietnam, kids today in war ravaged Israel/Gaza, or Iraq/Afganistan... They see real deaths/murders/violence everyday... Not television pretend stuff. Apply his theory there and we are helping to raise a new even more viscious generation of terrorists in the mid-east now!

The NRA and their security in DC should have anticipated all the whack job protestors and ID'd and frisked everyone before they could enter... Again no forethought or planning at all!

Another thing that chapped my hide is when he mentioned that there are 4 million moms and dads that are members of the NRA... 4.3 vs 311 million in US isnt much of the population! He would have been better off quoting the number of gun owners, which is a much larger number! I dont know if I will re-join the NRA now after this press conference, and I understand that they need us more than ever and we need them more than ever. Perhaps we need a new organization to assist us going down the road. Or we need a new board of directors in the NRA!

Doh!
186072

Please I didnt post this to get flamed... constructive comments here.

What was your opinion of this NRA News Conference?

I honestly think he could have done better, but this IS Wayne LaPierre that we're talking about... :rolleyes:

acace
12-21-2012, 1:29 PM
Agreed, this was a weak speech delivered poorly.

Doheny
12-21-2012, 1:33 PM
Agreed. One week to the day after the shooting is too soon for in-your-face type tactics.

It will be interesting to watch the evening (national) news tonight.

bill_k_lopez
12-21-2012, 1:35 PM
What do you want? A hard, firm stand all or nothing would have backlashed. A soft weak timid response would have been run over with the current (yet short lived) anti momentum. He said what he said and it was fine.

I will agree that he is the absolute WORST public face for gun rights, and has a horrible voice - only next to Alan Gottlieb's. Larry Potterfield would make a great face/voice for American gun rights.

SilverTauron
12-21-2012, 1:35 PM
The facts are usually not as sexy or flashy as innuendo posing for policy,but they're facts just the same.I don't think video games,movies,media or guns are the answer.There is no lightning bolt reason for why someone goes nuts and shoots up a school. Solving the problem means a multi faceted approach,one of which is acknowledging that violence in our media and video games is extremely commonplace.The same media that wants us all disarmed " for the safety of law enforcement" has no trouble broadcasting movies and TV shows where cops are routinely shot by bad guys.

Next,unlike the POTUS LaPierre actually proposed a viable solution to the problem of securing our schools.

dustoff31
12-21-2012, 1:35 PM
The only thing I didnt hear him blame is who I hold responsible... the news media! If they didnt sensationalize every damn one of these whack job killers then maybe they wouldnt look at it as their way to infamy and glory. <-- Again my opinion!

Perhaps you should listen to his speech again.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/nra-calls-for-congress-to-put-armed-police-in-every-school-by-january-blames-media-as-silent-enablers-if-not-complicit-co-conspirators-in-gun-violence/

LaPierre also blamed the media as “silent enablers, if not complicit co-conspirators” when it comes to gun violence, saying there is a “national media machine” that gives wall-to-wall coverage of those who embark on violent shooting rampages and that “sells and sows violence against its own people” in the form of violent video games and blood-filled films He showed one such video game titled “Kindergarten Killers.”
“It’s been online for 10 years,” LaPierre said. “How come my research department could find it and all of yours either couldn’t or didn’t want anyone to know you had found it?”

Kestryll
12-21-2012, 1:37 PM
He told the truth.
He didn't candy coat it.
Neither did he exaggerate or sensationalize it.
He didn't try to appease anyone.

Sorry, the time for respectful silence is over, now it's time to fight not to hide under the bed hoping we don't offend anyone by telling the truth.

He spoke as Wayne LaPierre and an NRA member not as Neville Chamberlain and an appeaser.

email
12-21-2012, 1:38 PM
He reminds me of Alton Brown

Kharn
12-21-2012, 1:40 PM
The media was not going to rest until the NRA responded, so LaPierre had to say something. Its better to get in on the ground floor (by short-circuiting Biden's committee) so we can control the discussion on our terms. Now when Biden comes back and does not recommend armed security in schools while saying that inanimate objects are the problem, he'll be seen as a fool and oblivious to the real issue. If Biden comes back saying armed security is a solution, the NRA is a stakeholder at the table since they'll have a rough draft of their school security volunteer training curriculum ready to discuss.

If LaPierre had not been proactive in his response, the NRA would have been left on the sidelines and the current administration would be able to completely control the discussion (ie: new bans if the Republicans in the House were able to be fragmented with pork or promises).

putput
12-21-2012, 1:42 PM
Wayne just knocked the wind out of their sails.

How?

Bill Clinton had the idea of putting armed cops in schools in 2000 and Babs Boxer of all people is suggesting something similar.

How can the liberal's in the media say he's crazy when it's their idea?

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323

http://www.theglobaldispatch.com/barbara-boxer-introduces-school-safety-bill-which-features-armed-guards-on-campus-50653/

Now get out there and shine the light on what's right and let's end this thing.

BrokerB
12-21-2012, 1:42 PM
Its about time we fight back. Its has been a media onslaught on our rights. Stop hiding and stand up. This is far from in your face tactics. Every news outlet on Cable TV is going lockstep in banning semi auto rifles and magazines- someone needs to at least get a tiny bit of the other sides view out. Its never perfect so how about do something positive then add to the dog pile.

Kestryll
12-21-2012, 1:43 PM
He reminds me of Alton Brown

Larry, not Wayne right?

Want to freak out, watch Alton then watch a Thomas Dolby video.

Major Alton fan here, the Good Eats theme is my cell phone ring tone!

gorenut
12-21-2012, 1:43 PM
Initially when he brought up media as part of the blame.. I thought "finally someone will be addressing how the news vultures swoop down and sensationalize all these shooters" - then he goes down the road of blaming violent games and movies. Just lost all hope in this conference improving anything for gun owners. That's as backwards of a viewpoint as people who know nothing about guns thinking the killer was using a "Bushmaster Assault Rifle, capable of spitting 15 rounds a second and requires no aiming." Thought we were already past the days of strictly blaming movies and games.

I'm also surprised that it isn't brought to the surface more that majority of these shooters are on prescription anti-depressants. Most of these sprees happen when they're suffering from withdrawals. Of course I'm not saying these meds never help anyone, but gotta question how and who they're administered to.

Ultimately.. this is a multi-layered problem that really isn't as easily resolved by really just blaming a single culprit. Blanket bans and blames are obviously the wrong direction.

scarville
12-21-2012, 1:45 PM
The anti logic is really simple:


Something bad happened
I hate you
It's your fault


The haters smell blood and are out in force. LaPierre just invited them into his parlor.

AAShooter
12-21-2012, 1:45 PM
I wish he would have pushed personal accountability for the criminal and those tasked with our children's security. Hold the murderers responsible for their actions and those that were supposed to be taking effective actions to protect the children/people in their care.

The whole discussion of the entertainment industry came across and figure pointing and not effective.

NSR500
12-21-2012, 1:48 PM
I have no problem with what he said. The truth is the the liberal media complex which includes Hollywood and game makers contribute to the amount of morons in the world.

narcolepsy
12-21-2012, 1:48 PM
What do you want? A hard, firm stand all or nothing would have backlashed. A soft weak timid response would have been run over with the current (yet short lived) anti momentum. He said what he said and it was fine.


I doubt very that there is any way to convince the gun control fanatics, or any one of them, that they are wrong. He is there to represent those who support the Constitution, and as with most fights on the Constitutional front, there is no way to make it pretty. At a moment when people are losing their heads, the important thing is to remain present and wait for the real fighting to begin.

Personally, it seems to me that if the so-called liberals cannot push though a small tax hike on the very richest people, something which has eighty percent public approval, they will have a difficult time with Second Amendment abridgment. In the meantime, who cares if a few journalists despise the fact that America is free?

myk
12-21-2012, 1:50 PM
I think we're talking about two separate things here. Some of us are criticizing the content of the speech, others on the delivery. I will say that he/they failed on both counts, because the way he delivered his words most people will only get this from it: "THE NRA WANTS MORE GUNS GUNS GUNS!"

And as I said in one of the other NRA speech threads, he SHOULD HAVE directly addressed the protesters, instead of just shaking his head and reading from his notes. I would have asked them to stay and have an honest-to-God debate where Pierre could have shot down all of the anti's sentiments point, by point...

Patrol42
12-21-2012, 1:53 PM
What would have been more appropriate was "we believe gun policy should be determined by facts, research, past experience and social science, instead of knee-jerk, emotional reactions."

It' encouraging seeing the NRA on the offensive, but unfortunately he comes out as out of touch with the middle ground here. He's trying to make a point but he's trying to make a point by doing in a very unmoving and blunderous way.

Logic is a best friend with gun control. The shooter was crazy, he stole the guns from his mom, even if he had a bolt-action he would have done a lot of bad. It's not the gun, it's the person holding it. The media does not help at all, they are throwing flames at the fire, but suggesting a such a difficult thing to undertake was too shortsided.

Honestly, I think LaPierre should step down or something. I've been reading both sides and seeing the reaction from the middle, and the middle does not seem to moved by his speech, if anything it seemed to have made things unfavorable.

I am all for no more gun control, I think gun control does not work, but he did a bad stating why that is a bad thing and why it will not work. He blamed too much and discredited himself.

This is just my opinion, we have to think of the middle ground and speak to them.

DVSmith
12-21-2012, 1:53 PM
His delivery was horrible. He focused too much on blaming everything and everybody in the world. He could have made the same point with far more tact while remaining honest. I liked that he announced an initiative to build a best practices framework for school security that local schools can use. I think his idea of federal funding of school armed security is completely whacked. It will be another version of TSA if they do it and none of us wants another expensive ineffective bureaucracy.

Darryl Licht
12-21-2012, 1:56 PM
You would think that with all the forums like this they could have used some of our ideas and thoughts on the cause and possible solution!

Personally I do not believe an armed uniformed guard is the solution... more like a first target! Additionally, state and feds have no $ for this... they cant even pay school teachers, LEO's, and FD's in many cases.

Therefore I say allow qualified and trained school personnel to concealed carry, as a teacher I'm all for it and would do the training out of pocket on my own time if need be!

bigcalidave
12-21-2012, 1:59 PM
You absolutely do not address protesters, or hecklers. Ever. You don't engage them in that behavior. Wlp made the right speech at the right time, and bickering about little details will not help the NRA keep the sheep at bay from passing absurdly restrictive new laws. The NRA is not out to screw us, thanks for the troll posting. If you want to voice your opinions to the NRA they will listen, hell our NRA rep posted a thread right here earlier today.

dave3223
12-21-2012, 2:01 PM
Unfortunately, I have to agree with many in regards to poor planning and piss poor delivery. To suggest that schools employ armed guards at every school immediately after this tragic event (given the fact that he suggested that the NRA would propose meaningful suggestions) does not encourage support for the NRA at all. Yes, that could have been a suggestion if there were a number of other suggestions but unfortunately, his delivery and tone did not do us any justice. It would have been better for him to simply make no comment at all if that is all that he could have offered.

It would have been better if he could have offered other considerations or options in addition to the suggestion of employing armed guards. Suggestions like the following:

1. The NRA sponsoring family education forums/classes designed to help families (including their children) learn how to handle active shooter situations.

2. Educational classes hosted by NRA sponsored organizations which teach parents (and children) how to remain vigilant in understanding the Code of Mental Awareness scale as well as responsible gun ownership.

3. Continued expressed verbal support for current gun laws including a brief explanation of those laws the NRA favors and supports.

4. Law enforcements seminars and trainings offered for current LEAs/LEOs which the NRA would sponsor or host or financial support for increased LEO training to officers in smaller, less financially supported, areas of the country.

5. Recommendations, or the suggestion, that the NRA favors employing armed guards at schools and a willingness to establish a matching fund to employ such individuals beginning immediately at this current school (for helping the children feel safer) and other school locations with high crime statistics.

6. Some type of partnership with law enforcement agencies to support voluntary gun buy back programs or some other type of program which helps common people understand that they NRA supports people's choices to turn in their firearms if they want to but still encourages personal freedoms when it comes to responsible gun ownership.

7. A willingness to then identify statistics which demonstrate the number of gun crimes versus other types of common crimes/accidents which help to demonstrate to others that although there are a high number of gun crimes, there are also more likely situations (i.e. car accidents, hit and runs, whatever) that will cause problems for average folks.

Unfortunately, by not doing something like this and instead sending out a direct, confrontational response like he showed, it does not send a positive message to those who already view NRA members and supporters as whack jobs. Whereas I definitely support the efforts of the NRA, this approach taken today definitely did nothing to provide support or even understanding of the cause.

SilverTauron
12-21-2012, 2:03 PM
I think we're talking about two separate things here. Some of us are criticizing the content of the speech, others on the delivery. I will say that he/they failed on both counts, because the way he delivered his words most people will only get this from it: "THE NRA WANTS MORE GUNS GUNS GUNS!"

And as I said in one of the other NRA speech threads, he SHOULD HAVE directly addressed the protesters, instead of just shaking his head and reading from his notes. I would have asked them to stay and have an honest-to-God debate where Pierre could have shot down all of the anti's sentiments point, by point...

Why?The moment LaPierre shot down the protesters points the news media would have cut the feed.The press was there to find enough material to make the NRA look bad,not to report he truth.

VictorFranko
12-21-2012, 2:04 PM
Wayne just knocked the wind out of their sails.

How?

Bill Clinton had the idea of putting armed cops in schools in 2000 and Babs Boxer of all people is suggesting something similar.

How can the liberal's in the media say he's crazy when it's their idea?


LOL, because liberals don't care about facts or truth. They also have very selective memory, if it fits their agenda, they remember it, if not, it is swept under the rug...................

SilverTauron
12-21-2012, 2:06 PM
What would have been more appropriate was "we believe gun policy should be determined by facts, research, past experience and social science, instead of knee-jerk, emotional reactions."

It' encouraging seeing the NRA on the offensive, but unfortunately he comes out as out of touch with the middle ground here. He's trying to make a point but he's trying to make a point by doing in a very unmoving and blunderous way.

Logic is a best friend with gun control. The shooter was crazy, he stole the guns from his mom, even if he had a bolt-action he would have done a lot of bad. It's not the gun, it's the person holding it. The media does not help at all, they are throwing flames at the fire, but suggesting a such a difficult thing to undertake was too shortsided.

Honestly, I think LaPierre should step down or something. I've been reading both sides and seeing the reaction from the middle, and the middle does not seem to moved by his speech, if anything it seemed to have made things unfavorable.

I am all for no more gun control, I think gun control does not work, but he did a bad stating why that is a bad thing and why it will not work. He blamed too much and discredited himself.

This is just my opinion, we have to think of the middle ground and speak to them.

The point of this speech was to propose viable steps to prevent another shooting,not reach out to moderates.Anything that comes out of an NRA spokeperson's mouth will be intentionally slanted or omitted by the press-so any moderate message wouldn't reach the people who need to hear it anyway.

DVSmith
12-21-2012, 2:08 PM
I just received this email, which I am sure you all have by now. He is asking for our opinions. Let's share them:

Today I went to Capitol Hill to deliver a message that every American needs to hear.

After you watch this, I hope you'll send it to as many people as you can.

Thank you.

Yours in Freedom,

Wayne
Wayne LaPierre
Executive Vice President

P.S. I'm also interested in YOUR thoughts on this extremely important issue, so please feel free to send me a personal email to this address: WayneLaPierre@nra.org. Thank you again.

SanPedroShooter
12-21-2012, 2:08 PM
Unfortunately, I have to agree with many in regards to poor planning and piss poor delivery. To suggest that schools employ armed guards at every school immediately after this tragic event (given the fact that he suggested that the NRA would propose meaningful suggestions) does not encourage support for the NRA at all. Yes, that could have been a suggestion if there were a number of other suggestions but unfortunately, his delivery and tone did not do us any justice. It would have been better for him to simply make no comment at all if that is all that he could have offered.

It would have been better if he could have offered other considerations or options in addition to the suggestion of employing armed guards. Suggestions like the following:

1. The NRA sponsoring family education forums/classes designed to help families (including their children) learn how to handle active shooter situations.

2. Educational classes hosted by NRA sponsored organizations which teach parents (and children) how to remain vigilant in understanding the Code of Mental Awareness scale as well as responsible gun ownership.

3. Continued expressed verbal support for current gun laws including a brief explanation of those laws the NRA favors and supports.

4. Law enforcements seminars and trainings offered for current LEAs/LEOs which the NRA would sponsor or host or financial support for increased LEO training to officers in smaller, less financially supported, areas of the country.

5. Recommendations, or the suggestion, that the NRA favors employing armed guards at schools and a willingness to establish a matching fund to employ such individuals beginning immediately at this current school (for helping the children feel safer) and other school locations with high crime statistics.

6. Some type of partnership with law enforcement agencies to support voluntary gun buy back programs or some other type of program which helps common people understand that they NRA supports people's choices to turn in their firearms if they want to but still encourages personal freedoms when it comes to responsible gun ownership.

7. A willingness to then identify statistics which demonstrate the number of gun crimes versus other types of common crimes/accidents which help to demonstrate to others that although there are a high number of gun crimes, there are also more likely situations (i.e. car accidents, hit and runs, whatever) that will cause problems for average folks.

Unfortunately, by not doing something like this and instead sending out a direct, confrontational response like he showed, it does not send a positive message to those who already view NRA members and supporters as whack jobs. Whereas I definitely support the efforts of the NRA, this approach taken today definitely did nothing to provide support or even understanding of the cause.

Did you watch the whole thing? More than half of what you are proposing was proposed.

Except for the 'buy up' part. Support peoples choices to turn in their firearms? What does that even mean?

OleCuss
12-21-2012, 2:08 PM
OK guys, simmer down on Wayne's speech. I'm not a huge fan, but a little perspective is required when evaluating this kind of stuff.

Remember a few things? The NRA has known there was a big problem they were going to have to deal with for a good week now. You can be damned certain that for at least the last 6 days Wayne has had his lobbyists, his friends in Congress, his lawyers, and some heavy-duty PR flacks working with him on every word and nuance in that little presentation. You can bet that they chose his clothing and made sure that his make-up and hair were just right to convey the desired message.

You and I were not the primary audience he was going after. You and I were not supposed to be going wild with agreement - we just weren't supposed to be ticked off enough to resign membership.

He needed to re-frame the discussion and change the attack from one where the NRA and firearms are the focus and at least divert some of the heat to the press, to Hollywood, and to a failed approach to mental illness.

I think he did about as good a job as anyone could hope for.

If you wish to dislike him, do it for something else.

infamous1979
12-21-2012, 2:11 PM
Lapierre delivered a good speech and it hit on what we need to do to help secure our schools. I have no problem with what he said and think he did a good job offering solutions.

taperxz
12-21-2012, 2:11 PM
Great speech. Direct, to the point and right in lieu of the situation.

infamous1979
12-21-2012, 2:12 PM
Lapierre delivered a good speech and it hit on what we need to do to help secure our schools. I have no problem with what he said and think he did a good job offering solutions.

infamous1979
12-21-2012, 2:12 PM
Lapierre delivered a good speech and it hit on what we need to do to help secure our schools. I have no problem with what he said and think he did a good job offering solutions.

cjc16
12-21-2012, 2:13 PM
I think he did a good job. He actually seemed to want to protect our children from the next wacko unlike Our Dear Leader who only wants to use this tragedy as an excuse to vilify law abiding gun owners and cripple the NRA.
Relax, this was a first step. Protect our schools now. There will be time to debate about Gun laws later.

SWalt
12-21-2012, 2:16 PM
Once upon a time I was told art reflected a society. Today I know better, it reflects society only to a small degree, but it pushes, prods society more. Especially in todays media saturated culture.

Those on the margins will be affected more than most people. If the murderer wasn't sitting all day playing violent video games, lost in the own world in his head, I don't think he would have done this heinous act.

How much would it cost to put 1 armed officer in every school? 1 less teacher? 1 less administrator? If its someone with a ccw or volunteer, not much at all, just a lawyer writing new district policy allowing it. Perhaps some legislation. Its not about putting a well trained swat team in every school. Its about having some one on campus who can react before the cops show up. If you think its what the liberal media is saying he said, protect every building, every entrance, every college, etc, then perhaps you are more persuaded by the media than you think.

I thought it was an appropriate speech. He didn't cave and say "there are laws that need to be changed" or looked at. Isn't that what this whole forum has been about? Push back the laws? Create more opportunity to be able to protect yourself, your family? Do not cave in to gun grabbers? Well, the speech today was exactly that.

Oceanbob
12-21-2012, 2:21 PM
He told the truth.
He didn't candy coat it.
Neither did he exaggerate or sensationalize it.
He didn't try to appease anyone.

Sorry, the time for respectful silence is over, now it's time to fight not to hide under the bed hoping we don't offend anyone by telling the truth.

He spoke as Wayne LaPierre and an NRA member not as Neville Chamberlain and an appeaser.

This^^^^^

I watched and listened and I think he covered all the bases. Direct talk, no sugar coating; just the facts. I liked it. :cool2:

What got my goat was the liberal commentator who didn't listen but still demanded that a gun ban would solve this multi-level problem. :(

No common sense.

Mulay El Raisuli
12-21-2012, 2:32 PM
The media was not going to rest until the NRA responded, so LaPierre had to say something. Its better to get in on the ground floor (by short-circuiting Biden's committee) so we can control the discussion on our terms. Now when Biden comes back and does not recommend armed security in schools while saying that inanimate objects are the problem, he'll be seen as a fool and oblivious to the real issue. If Biden comes back saying armed security is a solution, the NRA is a stakeholder at the table since they'll have a rough draft of their school security volunteer training curriculum ready to discuss.

If LaPierre had not been proactive in his response, the NRA would have been left on the sidelines and the current administration would be able to completely control the discussion (ie: new bans if the Republicans in the House were able to be fragmented with pork or promises).


Completely correct.


You would think that with all the forums like this they could have used some of our ideas and thoughts on the cause and possible solution!

Personally I do not believe an armed uniformed guard is the solution... more like a first target! Additionally, state and feds have no $ for this... they cant even pay school teachers, LEO's, and FD's in many cases.

Therefore I say allow qualified and trained school personnel to concealed carry, as a teacher I'm all for it and would do the training out of pocket on my own time if need be!


Utah already does.


The Raisuli

SWalt
12-21-2012, 2:33 PM
OK guys, simmer down on Wayne's speech. I'm not a huge fan, but a little perspective is required when evaluating this kind of stuff.

Remember a few things? The NRA has known there was a big problem they were going to have to deal with for a good week now. You can be damned certain that for at least the last 6 days Wayne has had his lobbyists, his friends in Congress, his lawyers, and some heavy-duty PR flacks working with him on every word and nuance in that little presentation. You can bet that they chose his clothing and made sure that his make-up and hair were just right to convey the desired message.

You and I were not the primary audience he was going after. You and I were not supposed to be going wild with agreement - we just weren't supposed to be ticked off enough to resign membership.

He needed to re-frame the discussion and change the attack from one where the NRA and firearms are the focus and at least divert some of the heat to the press, to Hollywood, and to a failed approach to mental illness.

I think he did about as good a job as anyone could hope for.

If you wish to dislike him, do it for something else.

+1

Exactly...chess not checkers.

gh0stface
12-21-2012, 2:34 PM
What I don't like is one side blames guns(2a), and the other side is blaming movies, video games, etc(1a). The 4th and 5th don't mean anything these days to the due the war on drugs and war on terror. Now, we'll lose the 1st and 2nd to safe guard the children.

wweigle
12-21-2012, 2:35 PM
I listen to it, and thought it was the best alternative, other than arming teachers, which will never fly given most teachers history of demonizing guns. What would you rather they propose, the alternatives are not what we want. The bottom line in my opinion, I would rather see a nation school security program, what ever the cost, than more gun control.

NytWolf
12-21-2012, 2:36 PM
Wayne just knocked the wind out of their sails.

How?

Bill Clinton had the idea of putting armed cops in schools in 2000 and Babs Boxer of all people is suggesting something similar.

How can the liberal's in the media say he's crazy when it's their idea?

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323

http://www.theglobaldispatch.com/barbara-boxer-introduces-school-safety-bill-which-features-armed-guards-on-campus-50653/

Now get out there and shine the light on what's right and let's end this thing.

Exactly! That's what Boehner did with the budget plan too. Throw something they want back at them and see how they squirm. If they go with it, you were the one who took action. If they don't go with the plan, why did they bring up the idea in the first place?

My thoughts on the speech.
What else can be said? There is no way to say it any other way. There is a problem and every one of the sheeple wants to hear what the NRA has to say. They were sincere with the situation and they proposed a solution. You can't say it any better.

Cnynrat
12-21-2012, 2:43 PM
I thought the content was on target. Could have been delivered a little more strongly, but not all that bad. He certainly did not come across as a raving lunatic as the antis would like.

I posted this elsewhere, but I think he made a good case that the best way to prevent these events in the future is to directly protect the schools with trained security personnel. By announcing that the NRA is moving ahead without delay they put some pressure back on D.C.

Lot's of whining about the focus on the media. I don't read into his comments that he is in any way absolving the murderer of blame (or in this case the mother, who is the real villain in this particular situation). I do believe that the media portrayals of wanton violence do affect our culture negatively. That said, I didn't hear him suggest in any way that they should be censored or regulated. I took his comments as a call for introspection on the part of the leaders of those industries in hopes that they might decide to do the right thing for a change.

GutPunch
12-21-2012, 2:49 PM
It was well done and timed for maximum effect. Can you nitpick at things? Sure, but you can do that for anything.

Montane
12-21-2012, 2:57 PM
"Alan Gura ‏@alangura
.@AzizHayat I'm not a gun rights activist. I'm a lawyer in private practice whose work includes 2A, & yes, today's antics make that job hard"

HonkingAntelope
12-21-2012, 3:00 PM
Perhaps you should listen to his speech again.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/nra-calls-for-congress-to-put-armed-police-in-every-school-by-january-blames-media-as-silent-enablers-if-not-complicit-co-conspirators-in-gun-violence/

It's about the focus on the larger issue. Yes, he should have mentioned that temporarily buttoning things up at schools and other soft targets IS needed, but only due to all the other whackjobs coming out of the woods whenever the media goes onto a week-long feeding frenzy over a tragedy and showers the perpetrator with more attention in 15 minutes. Just look at the other crazy ******* that went shooting at a local mall today.

On the other hand, the general thrust of the speech should have been about the fact that some people are insane and hellbent of killing others, whatever it takes - guns or not.

How about the generally sorry state of mental healthcare for those who truly need it the most - even if against their will. The argument that a lot of families have no practical options apart from denial to help a loved one in medical/psychological distress due to prohibitive costs or legal hoops would resonate a lot better with the public than recommending putting up a machinegun nest in every classroom.

Then there is the issue of overall economic decline putting a lot of stress on a lot of people, combined with the general public desensitization to violence and the breakdown of moral fiber in the last couple of decades, making the less sane amongst us to snap in one way or another...

As someone upthread said, this was an opportunity to do some badly needed damage control, and all wlp did instead was to throw more ammo to the other side and gas on the fire. It would've been understandable if that speech was made LAST Friday, but I expected much better after them having days to prepare and put out something a lot better thought-out.

Inoxmark
12-21-2012, 3:05 PM
I am just glad he did not concede any gun control measures. Anything he would have said would have instantly became a ground floor for future negotiations and would have been met with screams of "not enough" anyway.

NytWolf
12-21-2012, 3:08 PM
The part that I am happiest about is the fact they didn't take any questions. Just look at the media questions as the guys were walking offstage. What part of "no questions" did they not understand?

Malmon
12-21-2012, 3:11 PM
Wayne LaPeirre presented a sensible solution. Staying silent until after Christmas will give the gun grabbers more time to poison public opinion with their lies.

Darklyte27
12-21-2012, 3:12 PM
Holy F, no one stepped in for 20 seconds!!! if that was the president he would have been tackled in .5 seconds!!!!

Caribouriver
12-21-2012, 3:18 PM
I thought he made rational sense. Granted, rational sense is foreign for many liberal thinkers. But what he suggested would actually have a near immediate positive impact on school security. Israel has been defending its schools since 1974. An armed parent rides shotgun on the busses. It's a sad commentary on society but our children will be increasingly vulnerable if their parents put their heads in the sand.

parcours
12-21-2012, 3:19 PM
He told the truth.
He didn't candy coat it.
Neither did he exaggerate or sensationalize it.
He didn't try to appease anyone.

Sorry, the time for respectful silence is over, now it's time to fight not to hide under the bed hoping we don't offend anyone by telling the truth.

He spoke as Wayne LaPierre and an NRA member not as Neville Chamberlain and an appeaser.


EXACTLY RIGHT!

We need to stop sugar coating this stuff. The NRA didn't kill those children, neither did 4M NRA members.

OIFVet03
12-21-2012, 3:19 PM
I agree with armed guards but it isn't movies and music causing it. It's the parents who don't take any responsibility for their children and don't teach them right from wrong.

5.0Driver
12-21-2012, 3:33 PM
I agree with armed guards but it isn't movies and music causing it. It's the parents who don't take any responsibility for their children and don't teach them right from wrong.

Hit the nail on the head. Movie and game ratings are there for a reason. It's up to the parents to enforce it at home. A child's mind is not mature enough for anything rated R or M. Even PG13 or T. No parent should be giving their 9 or 10 year old Grand Theft Auto or Call of Duty.

Moonshine
12-21-2012, 3:41 PM
Wayne may not be the best public speaker but we all knew anything short of him saying "I've done some thinking and the NRA agrees its time to ban Assault weapons, license ammo, and ban magazines over 10 rounds" was going to initiate outcry and be dubbed defiant.

I like what he said. I feel like my money has been well spent because despite in not being th popular position the NRA won't be making concessions or compromising. And they have correctly noted this country has a cultural fixation with violence.

Bruce
12-21-2012, 3:44 PM
Fascinating. Earlier this week there were posts asking where the NRA was. "Why are they remaining silent?"Now that they've responded, it's "Why couldn't they wait until after Christmas?" Fickle bunch these gun owners. :rolleyes:

odysseus
12-21-2012, 3:44 PM
Lot of new accounts on here as of late and big stir the pot posts. Ok...

Anyway, my jest of the larger point being inferred here is that LaPierre is addressing some comments to the public against the larger narrative already being pushed out there in the media everywhere in full "move forward" mode.

You know that narrative, right? The one that all the anti-gun groups and the political left and DNC are pushing right now. The one that says that gun culture, gun ownership, American gun owners are caught up and push out a culture of violence. The one that you hear echoed around with people calling the NRA, old angry white men. Those evil "automatic" "military" weapons we all can buy. That it is their idea that guns and their ability to be bought and sold in America are the source of violence.

Of course this is patently and statistically false. LaPierre seems to be showing that people need to look at questioning this narrative and ask about what the promotion of tolerance and ease of violence for some is about. It is sort of a strange hypocrisy in our culture, we cast rocks of judgement against strawmen, but then we heap billion$ annually into a massive entertainment machine that reaps profits demonstrating violence in all kinds of ways.

I would not of course expect to be behind a 1st Amendment infringement in trying to stop dramatic violence either in entertainment. BUT we have to ask ourselves the deeper questions.

There are bigger questions. Violence like Newtown is a deeper question. Mental disease, treatment, medication, and understanding how we address this like what happened in Newtown is a deeper question. Why we protect our money more than our kids, might be a deeper question...

savannah
12-21-2012, 3:57 PM
Larry, not Wayne right?

Want to freak out, watch Alton then watch a Thomas Dolby video.

Major Alton fan here, the Good Eats theme is my cell phone ring tone!


Where is the "like" button on Calguns.

Frankly, anything he said will be condemned by someone. Perhaps it is time we stood together and stopped criticizing. So far all we have done is complained on a forum and sent $10.00 to the NRA. Time to stand united and stop pointing fingers.

USMCM16A2
12-21-2012, 4:01 PM
Folks,


I believe that the NRA did what it could. The libs are screaming for blood, loud, their dialogue is no dialogue. They can propose bans, confiscations, buybacks all they want. But the Bill of Rights, Constitution were laid out by our forefathers to stop this crap.
As a group there will be troubled waters ahead, but the rule of law will trump the mob mentality. If the powers at be do not listen or fail or choose not to listen then we move to the next step. But for now we just have to increase the numbers of NRA members, CGF contributions, and SAF contributions. The anti-gunners have awakened a sleeping giant. A2

RMP91
12-21-2012, 4:05 PM
Folks,


I believe that the NRA did what it could. The libs are screaming for blood, loud, their dialogue is no dialogue. They can propose bans, confiscations, buybacks all they want. But the Bill of Rights, Constitution were laid out by our forefathers to stop this crap.
As a group there will be troubled waters ahead, but the rule of law will trump the mob mentality. If the powers at be do not listen or fail or choose not to listen then we move to the next step. But for now we just have to increase the numbers of NRA members, CGF contributions, and SAF contributions. The anti-gunners have awakened a sleeping giant. A2

More like "kicked" and "punched" a sleeping giant...

They have NO idea what they are in for now...

tommyfly
12-21-2012, 4:21 PM
I thought most of his points were pretty good.

Unfortunately, Wayne is a pretty horrible public speaker

tommyfly
12-21-2012, 4:21 PM
I thought most of his points were pretty good.

Unfortunately, Wayne is a pretty horrible public speaker

SgtDinosaur
12-21-2012, 4:51 PM
Amazing that with all the brilliant NRA critics on Calguns that California's gun laws are so screwed up. Maybe you guys should be making the speeches - not. It's one thing to bloviate on the internet and another to hold a national press conference.

speedrrracer
12-21-2012, 4:59 PM
Didn't watch the speech live -- read the transcript first.

As a political moderate, I feel the speech reads pretty well. I feel it was fairly well-crafted, and dramatically exceeds the typical content crapped out by the NRA, so kudos to them for rising to the occasion.

Watching the video, his delivery is poor, and he is a poor choice to be the face of the NRA. In this PR-driven world, they should replace him ASAP with a proper figurehead, even if WLP stays running things behind the scenes.

REH
12-21-2012, 5:08 PM
Yes, he mentions multi reasons for the murders. What did you want him to do, focus on one thing like the antis? I do believe there are mutable reasons. It's very complex issue. Focusing on just one thing is like doing nothing at all. It's also the easy way out.

Trakker
12-21-2012, 5:09 PM
Larry Flynt gets my vote for a spokesman


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

wcmaas
12-21-2012, 5:09 PM
I just read the full transcript and it is BRILLIANT! If the powers that be have the will, a lot of this can be in place when the kids come back from Christmas break. I have been in Israel and have seen their schools. They are NOT gun free zones and it works! And you damn well bet those Islamofacists see what soft targets our schools are and it is just a matter of time until they manage to slaughter huge numbers of our kids. EFFING WAKE UP AND HARDEN THE SOFT TARGETS NOW!

CalBear
12-21-2012, 5:17 PM
The NRA could have said literally anything, and the media and political shills would demonize them no matter what. It's hard to prevail in a debate when the opposition is willing to assert bold faced lies, and the moderators have the gall to confirm and propagate the lies.

Pre NRA speech, I'm sure school security was an idea some antis would have agreed with. Now that the NRA mentioned the subject, the antis will find ways to prove it will make things worse.

realbadlarry
12-21-2012, 5:19 PM
Most of the high schools in the LA/Inland Empire have cops with guns in them daily now. Resource Officers is what they call them.

Hopalong
12-21-2012, 5:20 PM
I'm ok with it

With current events and the media salivating over fresh meat

He's between a rock and a hard place anyway

Cojones grande

Guntech
12-21-2012, 5:24 PM
First off to all the flamers n haters...
I love my guns and will fight to keep them, I firmly believe it is our right to keep them... no matter what some liberal in Sacramento or DC says.

View video here:
SZb8EXUrQTo

Good God I miss Charlton Heston!

Wayne LaPierre just did more for the anti-gun side in his 30 minute speech than their best lawyers have in 20 years! He screwed the pooch by opening his big damn mouth... At a time like this I feel he should have been more respectful and kept silent until after Christmas and then commented with a carefully formulated plan. He just poured gasoline on the campfire by suggesting armed guards posted at every school in the nation. The liberal press is already having a field day with it!

Then he suggests violent video games and movies are to blame, then shifts over to music with violent lyrics! Seems like he cannot make up his mind on who, or what, to blame! The only thing I didnt hear him blame is who I hold responsible... the news media! If they didnt sensationalize every damn one of these whack job killers then maybe they wouldnt look at it as their way to infamy and glory. <-- Again my opinion!

He comments how a child today witnesses 16,000 murders and 200,000 violent acts by the time they reach 18 years of age. And that's why these whackos do this stuff.

If his theory were to hold water then what about the children in post WWII Europe, Vietnam, kids today in war ravaged Israel/Gaza, or Iraq/Afganistan... They see real deaths/murders/violence everyday... Not television pretend stuff. Apply his theory there and we are helping to raise a new even more viscious generation of terrorists in the mid-east now!

The NRA and their security in DC should have anticipated all the whack job protestors and ID'd and frisked everyone before they could enter... Again no forethought or planning at all!

Another thing that chapped my hide is when he mentioned that there are 4 million moms and dads that are members of the NRA... 4.3 vs 311 million in US isnt much of the population! He would have been better off quoting the number of gun owners, which is a much larger number! I dont know if I will re-join the NRA now after this press conference, and I understand that they need us more than ever and we need them more than ever. Perhaps we need a new organization to assist us going down the road. Or we need a new board of directors in the NRA!

Doh!
186072

Please I didnt post this to get flamed... constructive comments here.

What was your opinion of this NRA News Conference?


I would say that is a no-brainer, they see us over there as an occupation, they will undoubtedly have more martyrs as those kids grow up. Their hatred for us goes deep it is on a fundamental level that they want to kill all of us.

tcrpe
12-21-2012, 5:27 PM
Did he discuss crazies?

They are the problem.

cjc16
12-21-2012, 5:28 PM
I just read the full transcript and it is BRILLIANT! If the powers that be have the will, a lot of this can be in place when the kids come back from Christmas break. I have been in Israel and have seen their schools. They are NOT gun free zones and it works! And you damn well bet those Islamofacists see what soft targets our schools are and it is just a matter of time until they manage to slaughter huge numbers of our kids. EFFING WAKE UP AND HARDEN THE SOFT TARGETS NOW!

Absolutely right. I was just commenting to my wife how all the local Jewish schools in Los Angeles seem to have armed security for their kids. They know what a world full of threats is like and they don't f#ck around when it comes to the protection of their kids.

ElectricMonk
12-21-2012, 5:35 PM
Don't agree that video games and the media are to blame. I do like that the NRA did not concede on gun control.

Manolito
12-21-2012, 5:38 PM
I thought he did a very good job. Watching the videos of killing kindergarten children went a long way when he said my staff can find these things but you as media have not presented a single one.

I liked the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

Overall I was pleased with the timing as well. When you add his comments to the video shot on the View I think our community came out pretty well today.

Just my thought

Bill

cjc16
12-21-2012, 5:42 PM
by the way, this just in from MSNBC, regarding the NRA's proposal ""The last thing we need are the George Zimmermans of the world patrolling our schools," said Kristen Rand, legislative director of the Violence Policy Center, referring to the neighborhood watch volunteer charged with killing unarmed teen Trayvon Martin in Florida."
I can't believe the gall of these people. They would rather see more kids slaughtered than to even intelligently debate a realistic solution to protecting schools. Enough with the sensational rhetoric. We need to find a way to shut these morons down. No matter how you feel about Mr La Pierre's speech, these people are absolutely batty and are in need of a serious smackdown.

gundad
12-21-2012, 5:43 PM
Its not OK to take your ball and go home when the coach makes a call you dont like. If you want to be part of a team, you support your team and your coach and you win the game. Just because you cant see the strategy behind the coaches call doesn't mean the coach is wrong. Of course we are all free to our opinions it doesnt' help to cause dissent among team members.

Wrangler John
12-21-2012, 5:45 PM
It is apparent that one function of individual point of view, of human perception and interpretation of any given object is to arrive at the greatest number of divergent opinions possible. We talk about consensus, which is a fundamental artifact of the human mind which declares that there is no single meaning to any given communication. This feature of human psychology is precisely what makes crafting law so difficult, the propensity of the reader to interpret a law or legal decision in terms unique to the individual's bias is well known. Hence, Heller only applies to firearms in the home.

Read this thread again and the human condition is readily apparent.

Mrs. Wrangler watched the LaPierre speech and, being quite open minded and non-judgmental, she thought it the best speech she had heard on any topic.

I once again declare that any society that can not, or refuses to, defend its children at all costs from criminal attack is degenerate and on the cusp of downfall. LaPierre's arguments for school security are well founded and a rational immediate measure to begin securing the lives our future depends upon. To do less is criminal.

dieselpower
12-21-2012, 5:48 PM
I will explain it too you... Seeing a video game shooting...seeing it on TV, even a news broadcast is nothing like seeing it and living it. That's why all the people you listed are not goofed up, but kids who watch it one TV or in a video game "CAN BECOME" desensitized to it and the act of pulling the trigger is nothing until its all over. Then and only then does the real world set in.

bwiese
12-21-2012, 5:49 PM
For those of you thinking this was PR, that's quite charming you believe it's relevant.

This is about securing House seats.

That's all that matters.

Guntech
12-21-2012, 5:51 PM
To those of you saying that they should have said "this is the fault of parents" instead of this is the fault of the media and video games" time to get in touch with reality. You wont sway any of the feel gooders by telling them they are the ones ****ing up, they are all about shirking responsibility. It's all in the manifesto, you guys need to read it. They are just doing the dance. The feel gooders are a bunch of sheep so the plan is: throw an idea out there wait for the masses to start thinking hey video games are violent we should ban those. Takes the spotlight off of us.

Exile Machine
12-21-2012, 5:51 PM
I thought the speech was good and the idea of the NRA crafting basically an open-source school security plan and offering it to schools is genius. I found out my son's private school has an armed (ex-cop) security team on site as well as a comprehensive security plan in place. Wish every school could have that. The NRA is going to give it to any school who wants it. That's a win-win. There are banner carrying morons who will look at anything the NRA does as evil, no matter what it is.

My only question is how did they let those hecklers get in there in the first place? How were they able to get those huge banners past security?

-Mark

dmcmillenfv
12-21-2012, 5:57 PM
I got a novel idea.. Lets put blame where the blame belongs... On the crazy nut case who pulled the trigger!! It's seems to be a common occurrence to blame guns, media, video games etc for anything that goes wrong. It was only the guy that pulled the trigger that's it!

tankarian
12-21-2012, 6:07 PM
I believe he delivered a very good speech.
But,

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQAnL-jf7wb8GWVRuSBuEaQ7E4FtI_tqMehE_7CLpm46hLNga6fvA

Trenchfoot
12-21-2012, 6:11 PM
I thought he did a very good job. Watching the videos of killing kindergarten children went a long way when he said my staff can find these things but you as media have not presented a single one.



Why should the media report on "Kindergarden Killer"? WLP is the best advertising that game ever got. Millions of people who had never heard of that game now know it's out there. They probably doubled their playerbase today.

Kharn
12-21-2012, 6:12 PM
My only question is how did they let those hecklers get in there in the first place? How were they able to get those huge banners past security?

-MarkFolded and concealed under clothing or in purses. The NRA doesn't pat down the press before talking to them.

Python2
12-21-2012, 6:13 PM
I think the title of this thread is a little bit extreme, LaPierre screwed us? come on. Someone at least please modify it. Brady bunch also browse this forum.

Trenchfoot
12-21-2012, 6:17 PM
To those of you saying that they should have said "this is the fault of parents" instead of this is the fault of the media and video games" time to get in touch with reality. You wont sway any of the feel gooders by telling them they are the ones ****ing up, they are all about shirking responsibility. It's all in the manifesto, you guys need to read it. They are just doing the dance. The feel gooders are a bunch of sheep so the plan is: throw an idea out there wait for the masses to start thinking hey video games are violent we should ban those. Takes the spotlight off of us.

You also destroy any chance of the media portraying you as a rational actor who is serious about protecting children.

I understand the dance and what you are saying, I just don't believe in throwing the 1A under the bus to protect the 2A

hylander
12-21-2012, 6:19 PM
He told the truth.
He didn't candy coat it.
Neither did he exaggerate or sensationalize it.
He didn't try to appease anyone.

Sorry, the time for respectful silence is over, now it's time to fight not to hide under the bed hoping we don't offend anyone by telling the truth.

He spoke as Wayne LaPierre and an NRA member not as Neville Chamberlain and an appeaser.

I agree
And thought he did a pretty good job with the delivery.

The Gleam
12-21-2012, 6:19 PM
[Wayne LaPierre just did more for the anti-gun side in his 30 minute speech than their best lawyers have in 20 years! He screwed the pooch by opening his big damn mouth... At a time like this I feel he should have been more respectful and kept silent until after Christmas and then commented with a carefully formulated plan. He just poured gasoline on the campfire by suggesting armed guards posted at every school in the nation. The liberal press is already having a field day with it!

What was your opinion of this NRA News Conference?

You're not getting the tactic; you missed the point. This was carefully measured and orchestrated. Explanations of his points will follow.

The ideology that was to be presented had to be as extreme at the other end of the spectrum from the emotionally charged freedom-haters without calling for things that are illegal, or ludicrous, in order to set a balance against the same extreme ideas and tone that have been presented by the Anti-2nd Amendment crowd in the past week.

You spill red paint, I'll spill green; we'll make a boring brown. Hopefully, a greenish brown.

You don't fight a house-fire already in full rage with a squirt gun. No, you come in with a giant water-cannon, the biggest thing you can get. As the flames get quenched, you can turn the pressure down.

SgtDinosaur
12-21-2012, 7:03 PM
I suppose you "gamers" think this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Grossman_(author)

Grossman argues that the techniques used by armies to train soldiers to kill are mirrored in certain types of video games. The conclusion he draws is that playing violent video games, particularly light gun shooters of the first-person shooter-variety (where the player holds a weapon-like game controller), train children in the use of weapons and, more importantly, harden them emotionally to the task of murder by simulating the killing of hundreds or thousands of opponents in a single typical video game. Grossman uses blunt language that draws the ire of gamers - during the heights of video game controversy, he was interviewed on the content of his books, and repeatedly used the term "murder simulator" to describe first-person shooter games.

scrubb
12-21-2012, 7:04 PM
Lapierre delivered a good speech and it hit on what we need to do to help secure our schools. I have no problem with what he said and think he did a good job offering solutions.

Great speech. Direct, to the point and right in lieu of the situation.

This^^^^^

I watched and listened and I think he covered all the bases. Direct talk, no sugar coating; just the facts. I liked it. :cool2:

What got my goat was the liberal commentator who didn't listen but still demanded that a gun ban would solve this multi-level problem. :(

No common sense.

Eureka! I have found calgun members who actually have rational thought!

+1

Bobio
12-21-2012, 7:12 PM
Speech is gonna backfire against firearm owners. We have to figure out a way to prevent these massacres. Guns pay a big part in this violence. If we want to protect our right to bear arms we have to be willing to police ourselves. I have no problems with many of the regulations California has. I don't mind a waiting period, a background check doesn't bother me. I wish I could have 30 round mags and I wish I could ave a folding stock. But I also feel these elements really add to the lethality of these weapons in a civilian environment. If someone starts shooting at civilians I'd rather have him re-load nine times to get off 90 rounds.

EM2
12-21-2012, 7:13 PM
He told the truth.
He didn't candy coat it.
Neither did he exaggerate or sensationalize it.
He didn't try to appease anyone.

Sorry, the time for respectful silence is over, now it's time to fight not to hide under the bed hoping we don't offend anyone by telling the truth.

He spoke as Wayne LaPierre and an NRA member not as Neville Chamberlain and an appeaser.


The truth can be a hard pill to swallow for some.
Those who think Wayne screwed us are afraid of a good fight.

Tmckinney
12-21-2012, 7:24 PM
His speech was aimed at his base and fund raising, so he said what they wanted to hear. It was just a another vwersion of "not one inch." If his speech was designed to molify the antis, it was horrible, but I doubt that is what it was for.

On the other hand, I think he is falling victim to one of the anti gun assumptions, that guns are in fact the central issue here. He jsut thinks guns are the answers to the problem of school violence in the same way the anti guns think gun banning is the answer to school violence. neither is correct IMHO. Its a mental health issue.

These were guns stolen by a person on the verge of commitment. The "best" that more gun control could hope for is a few less bodies at the next shooting of this type.

I hope for his sake he raised a lot a money today, becasue he surely failed to do aything to bring sides together or suggest anything new for gun policy in this country. The risk with not participating in the process is the other side makes all the rules. I wonder if thats a risk we all want to take? Not that I have an answer

bubbapug1
12-21-2012, 7:28 PM
First, I admit, I don't care for Wayne LaPierre and his firebrand style of character assasination and half truths, but today....

He did a very good job. He told the truth no one...NO ONE wants to hear (except maybe us!!). He laid out a plan, and I think the guy actually was disraught about the killings, but he tried to hide it...which is why he's the VP of the NRA and not the President of the USA.

I ACTUALLY think he has laid out a very good substantial plan to help resolve the issue. And note, he said the immediate fix is armed guards on campus. Immediate, and not pie in the sky, lets kick the F--king can down the road stuff like the congress came up with on financial matters

Good Job Wayne....I cannot believe I would ever say that. I even wrote to my school district asking them to seriously review the SOP's he suggested.

The logic and analogies Wayne used were just spot on, and its pretty tough to rebut any portion of his speech at all.

trashman
12-21-2012, 7:30 PM
His speech was aimed at his base and fund raising, so he said what they wanted to hear. It was just a another vwersion of "not one inch." If his speech was designed to molify the antis, it was horrible, but I doubt that is what it was for.

It's the opening bid in what will hopefully be a long game of poker with several rounds. The POTUS had nothing new to say in terms of solutions, so the onus isn't exactly on the NRA to come up with concessions off the bat.

What worries me a little is that the presentation polish and tone suggest there is some real anti-gun legislative work going on behind the headlines that these guys are aware of and they felt they had to get out there ASAP.

I'm glad he did - it's why I'm an NRA member.

--Neill

Laythor
12-21-2012, 7:36 PM
I think the NRA waited as long as they could before the media just invented quotes on their own.

Was it the best speech in the world, hardly. He is a very poor public speaker and it showed. It covered what it needed to, it answered questions that many people had been asking, and it gave no time for questions. It went on too long and gave too many out of context sound bites for my liking, but it will do.

SilverTauron
12-21-2012, 7:42 PM
Speech is gonna backfire against firearm owners. We have to figure out a way to prevent these massacres. Guns pay a big part in this violence. If we want to protect our right to bear arms we have to be willing to police ourselves. I have no problems with many of the regulations California has. I don't mind a waiting period, a background check doesn't bother me. I wish I could have 30 round mags and I wish I could ave a folding stock. But I also feel these elements really add to the lethality of these weapons in a civilian environment. If someone starts shooting at civilians I'd rather have him re-load nine times to get off 90 rounds.

How's the coffee at the Violence Policy Institute? Any hot girls working there?

TATER313
12-21-2012, 7:49 PM
Us Californians lost a lot of our rights already, they are trying to go at them again. Its is neither the guns, movies, or video games, a bad seed is a bad seed. We need to have anyone we can get on our side, some people think semi-automatic rifles are fully with select fire capabilities. I educated 6 or 7 people on Thursday at work about semi-auto, and it changed there perspective. I take people out shooting that has not been shooting before and teach them how to shoot and the safe handling firearms on my dime. I tutored a ak build for one guy, and now he just bought a 10/22 and he is going out to get a G35. Now I have 4 others wanting to build AK's but they are probably out of luck due to the availability of kits. I did not think his speech was bad, nor did I think he hurt us. Texas are allowing teachers to be armed and many more states are following there lead.

nicki
12-21-2012, 7:51 PM
The other side is on a "frenzy" and although we don't know all the facts about this specific shooting, we had to say something.

What was disgusting was "code Pink" and how childish they were.

Make no mistake about it, this is a push by our opponents, the problem for our opponents is when as things calm down and more facts become apparent, it is going to be clear that our opponents themselves have alot of blood on their hands.

If we actually get positive changes culturally, socially and politically, then those children's deaths won't be in vain.

Nicki

tcrpe
12-21-2012, 7:56 PM
Speech is gonna backfire against firearm owners. We have to figure out a way to prevent these massacres. Guns pay a big part in this violence. If we want to protect our right to bear arms we have to be willing to police ourselves. I have no problems with many of the regulations California has. I don't mind a waiting period, a background check doesn't bother me. I wish I could have 30 round mags and I wish I could ave a folding stock. But I also feel these elements really add to the lethality of these weapons in a civilian environment. If someone starts shooting at civilians I'd rather have him re-load nine times to get off 90 rounds.

Don't want to address the crazies?

Fair enough.

Why not?

mosinnagantm9130
12-21-2012, 7:59 PM
I suppose you "gamers" think this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Grossman_(author)

He doesn't. I have yet to see a game that teaches you how to use firearms.

Also, he apparently thinks this is a "weapon":

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Xbox-360-S-Controller.png/300px-Xbox-360-S-Controller.png

I've virtually killed tens of thousands of "enemies". I can assure you, the sane person can separate fiction from reality. I haven't murdered anyone, and I don't plan to. There are millions of gamers just like me.

If firearms aren't the problem, but the people are, how can someone say the video game is the problem and not the user?

SoyB3an
12-21-2012, 8:04 PM
Some of what he said I thought was good but...... sometimes things are just better left unsaid. :censored:

Hoshnasi
12-21-2012, 8:08 PM
There is an opportunity here.

The NRA needs to get in front of offering free of subsidized training to anyone in the teaching field who is responsible for our kids.

Further they (The NRA) needs to record those training efforts where the teachers alow them and then present the info in the most social acceptable way possible on as many venues as possible (Youtube being a great one).

Lastly, in those recording they need to interview MOTHERS who have used a weapon to protect their family as well as the teachers in Utah that have been carrying since 95'.

The marketing is bad for our side guys, we need to step up our game.

Sakiri
12-21-2012, 8:19 PM
He doesn't. I have yet to see a game that teaches you how to use firearms.

Also, he apparently thinks this is a "weapon":

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Xbox-360-S-Controller.png/300px-Xbox-360-S-Controller.png

I've virtually killed tens of thousands of "enemies". I can assure you, the sane person can separate fiction from reality. I haven't murdered anyone, and I don't plan to. There are millions of gamers just like me.

If firearms aren't the problem, but the people are, how can someone say the video game is the problem and not the user?


The problem with games and the like, particularly the violent ones, is that in the hands of the wrong type of person, can desensitize the younger generation particularly, into being more indifferent.

It's the same problem that occurs with pornography. Watch the same stuff over and over again, and you need freakier and freakier stuff to get the same reaction. These people later have issues having meaning sexual relationships with real people because they either cannot or will not do what that guy saw in the porno.

Repeated exposure, not the content in question, is usually the problem. It's not the video games. It's those brooding kids and the fact that they'll spend long hours playing them. Mom always said sitting in your room playing Contra all day every day was bad for me, luckily for her, I only did it when I was sick and the weather was too crappy for anything meaningful.

I view it as part of the side result of Mom and Daddy letting the video games and TV raise their kid. I pin a really good chunk of the blame on the parents, but you can't just go out and tell America we aren't raising their kids right. That's a good way to get thrown under a bus.

I recently saw an article featuring a quote attributed to one person but I never verified if it was him or not. Was going on about the political correctness of holidays and not wanting to offend anyone. He's Jewish, and has no issues with being wished a Merry Christmas and the like.

But at the end of the piece, he'd mentioned an interview with someone else that made me think. We're so busy getting God out of our country, because it offends the non Christians and we have to be "super sensitive" about it... back when I was growing up, religion is what taught us our morals. Most of the atheists I knew in my 20s were raised in a more religious home and had a sense of morals. They dismissed the idea of God, but felt that the Bible has a decent set of morals to live by in there.

I think losing those morals is part of what's screwing us. That kid, had me been me, would have been sent away well before reaching adulthood. My mother was NOT going to let one of her spawn ruin the country and other people's lives. She wouldn't have enjoyed it, but she does what's best for everyone, including us in that regard. We're a danger to ourselves and others? Lock her up, guys. She'll thank me when she's done raging.

Ugh.

/rant

IVC
12-21-2012, 8:31 PM
I wish I could have 30 round mags and I wish I could ave a folding stock. But I also feel these elements really add to the lethality of these weapons in a civilian environment. If someone starts shooting at civilians I'd rather have him re-load nine times to get off 90 rounds.

You are looking at it backwards. The one who starts shooting will have a 30 round magazine he got from his local gangbang store, much the way hippies get their weed today.

The question is what would you like to have on you when the crazy person starts shooting at you with his preferred weapon of choice that is configured to fit his needs, not your desires or the laws.

In context of CT shooting, you are regulating the teachers and administrators as they are already facing an illegal gun, illegal configuration, illegal method of carry and illegal intent.

SgtDinosaur
12-21-2012, 8:31 PM
He doesn't. I have yet to see a game that teaches you how to use firearms.

Also, he apparently thinks this is a "weapon":

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Xbox-360-S-Controller.png/300px-Xbox-360-S-Controller.png

I've virtually killed tens of thousands of "enemies". I can assure you, the sane person can separate fiction from reality. I haven't murdered anyone, and I don't plan to. There are millions of gamers just like me.

If firearms aren't the problem, but the people are, how can someone say the video game is the problem and not the user?

Did you read it, or do you just have comprehension problems? Or do you not believe Grossman when he says the Army was using similar games to desensitize soldiers? You think he made that up? Do you even know who he is? Did he say it teaches them to use firearms? Fail.

timdotm
12-21-2012, 8:33 PM
Sorry OP, I have to disagree. I thought that Wayne LaPierre's was quite good, even excellent. I completely agree with his conclusion that protection of schools is the only way to keep children safe. I go to airports all the time; there are armed police on the periphery of he airport; armed security inside; armed air marshals on many flights. Nobody is attacking airports or planes. Same for federal buildings, police stations, secured contractor facilities... Face facts, we live in a dangerous world now. Protection by armed force is the most effective way to stop the bad guys.

jbj
12-21-2012, 8:37 PM
Why in the world did the NRA hold a press conference at all? Did they do something wrong?

All they had to do was release the following statement "we at the NRA are heartbroken over the tragic events in New Hampshire. As the largest representative of the millions of lawful fun owners in America, our prayers go out to the families, friends and loved ones whose live have been shattered by these heinous crimes.

The NRA agrees with President Obama that something must be done to ensure that this kind of horror does not happen again in the United States. We look forward to working with the White House and Congress, along with our States' Governors and their Legislatures, and finally out friends in law enforcement to try to find a solution. "

Extra411
12-21-2012, 8:40 PM
Placing blame on video games and entertainment is a poor deflection. And then showing this "Kindergarden Killer" is double poor. Look, no one knows what the hell this "Kindergarden Killer" is, it looks like a poor flash game coded by one person (who by all means, would be protected under 1A), and has almost no public exposure.

How do you alienate the majority of the young adults today? By insinuating the games they play is responsible for mass murders. I know of very few people around/under thirty years old who DON'T play video games, especially males. Lots of them own guns too. Many are upstanding people; some are currently in the services. NONE went around on a killing rampage in real life. Some of the older generation need to start "getting it" - Video games aren't going away anytime soon and it's just as much of a poor scapegoat as guns, music, or movies.

With the left blaming guns and the right blaming video games, it makes everyone involved look bad.

CEDaytonaRydr
12-21-2012, 8:42 PM
Anything he said was going to be vilified; we knew that going in. It really doesn't matter. In my mind, he neither helped, nor hurt our efforts...

stilly
12-21-2012, 8:42 PM
Speech is gonna backfire against firearm owners. We have to figure out a way to prevent these massacres. Guns pay a big part in this violence. If we want to protect our right to bear arms we have to be willing to police ourselves. I have no problems with many of the regulations California has. I don't mind a waiting period, a background check doesn't bother me. I wish I could have 30 round mags and I wish I could ave a folding stock. But I also feel these elements really add to the lethality of these weapons in a civilian environment. If someone starts shooting at civilians I'd rather have him re-load nine times to get off 90 rounds.

People like YOU are part of the problem. You have a defeated mentality and you let them (them, your other friends prolly) push you around mentally by saying that you do not need any more than 10 or 5 rounds in your gun and you do not need a semi because a bolt action is just dandy and you should be happy to have that... You remind me of that guy in the movie 300 that could not be a spartan so he went to the other side and betrayed all the spartans instead... Hey guess what, if they have no access to guns they will use knives and bombs. THAT IS A FACT. KILLERS GONNA KILL. PERIOD. Instead of being a puss you should be angry and demanding to know why these jackasses are telling us that we do not have the right to defend ourselves with the best that we can afford. If someone starts shooting and they have to reload 9 times to get off 90 rounds then they FAILED already because criminals will not use 10 rounders. If we can wish our scenarios then I would want them to be shooting marshmallow guns and squirting me with fudge and cookie dough ice cream. It don't happen that way. Seriously man, grow some posts...


More like "kicked" and "punched" a sleeping giant...

They have NO idea what they are in for now...

Yeah! It is time to go fight club style on them! (let's burn happy faces into buildings! )

Brake
12-21-2012, 8:53 PM
The time for gun owner and their representatives to be as vocal as the anti's is now!! What Wayne LaPierre did this morning was way overdue and badly needed...:patriot:

IVC
12-21-2012, 8:57 PM
Why in the world did the NRA hold a press conference at all? Did they do something wrong?

The media was calling for it, so their hand was forced. In a day or two it will move from the front pages and it will be business as usual.

Had they not done it, the media would keep bringing it up, much like Romney's tax returns, or Obama's school transcripts. Besides, the message was right on. You can't fix stupid, but you can stop stupid.

Gunlawyer
12-21-2012, 9:01 PM
First off to all the flamers n haters...
I love my guns and will fight to keep them, I firmly believe it is our right to keep them... no matter what some liberal in Sacramento or DC says.

View video here:
SZb8EXUrQTo

Good God I miss Charlton Heston!

Wayne LaPierre just did more for the anti-gun side in his 30 minute speech than their best lawyers have in 20 years!

[Must have watched a totally different speech than this one then if you think this. This sounds like a factually correct reasoned and workable solution which puts all gun owners in a good light to actually solve the problem. It appears well thought out with appropriate labeling and marketing The National School Shield Program sounds a plus. Headed be "independent Asa Huchinson" as explained is also very smart. ]

He screwed the pooch by opening his big damn mouth...

[ Not true at all]

At a time like this I feel he should have been more respectful and kept silent until after Christmas and then commented with a carefully formulated plan.

[ He did comment with a very well thought out and formulated plan IMHO. The one plan that will work not some other BS plan. ]

He just poured gasoline on the campfire by suggesting armed guards posted at every school in the nation. [ Not true he actualy got people thinkingin real terms of what would really protect children in schools.]

The liberal press is already having a field day with it! [Anything and everything thr NRA says is spun by the lib press so no matter what real solutions are formulated and communicated by the NRA would receive this bias and spin.]

Then he suggests violent video games and movies are to blame, then shifts over to music with violent lyrics!

[ He didnt say these were to blame. He said these contribute to the acceptance of violence in our society which factually speaking is likely true. Listen to it again. ]

Seems like he cannot make up his mind on who, or what, to blame! [H blamed the nut jon right from the start and througout. ]The only thing I didnt hear him blame is who I hold responsible... the news media! [ He did blame them alot. Listen to it again and he said they sensationalize these things. ]

If they didnt sensationalize every damn one of these whack job killers then maybe they wouldnt look at it as their way to infamy and glory. <-- Again my opinion!

He comments how a child today witnesses 16,000 murders and 200,000 violent acts by the time they reach 18 years of age. And that's why these whackos do this stuff. [ Im sure it contributes to their acceptance that killing children is ok in their warped minds. Anyone that does this is evil to begin with. ]

If his theory were to hold water then what about the children in post WWII Europe, Vietnam, kids today in war ravaged Israel/Gaza, or Iraq/Afganistan... They see real deaths/murders/violence everyday... Not television pretend stuff. Apply his theory there and we are helping to raise a new even more viscious generation of terrorists in the mid-east now!

The NRA and their security in DC should have anticipated all the whack job protestors and ID'd and frisked everyone before they could enter...[One good point of tour post I agree with. ] Again no forethought or planning at all!

Another thing that chapped my hide is when he mentioned that there are 4 million moms and dads that are members of the NRA... 4.3 vs 311 million in US isnt much of the population! [Good point but the NRA doesnt speak for all gun owners persay and usually members of the NRA are the strong 2a supporters so tactical decision so some gun owner doesnt say something wacko ater this press conference that is spun by the lib press to apply to the NRA so I agree with the tactic. ]

He would have been better off quoting the number of gun owners, which is a much larger number! I dont know if I will re-join the NRA now after this press conference, [Please support the cause and rejoin if you support 2a rights as the NRA is the strongest on supporting 2a rights in the land. ] and I understand that they need us more than ever and we need them more than ever. Perhaps we need a new organization to assist us going down the road. Or we need a new board of directors in the NRA!

Doh!
186072

Please I didnt post this to get flamed... constructive comments here.

What was your opinion of this NRA News Conference?


[IMHO it was well thought out and right on point other than the wacko crashers. ]

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 9:03 PM
He told the truth.
He didn't candy coat it.
Neither did he exaggerate or sensationalize it.
He didn't try to appease anyone.

Sorry, the time for respectful silence is over, now it's time to fight not to hide under the bed hoping we don't offend anyone by telling the truth.

He spoke as Wayne LaPierre and an NRA member not as Neville Chamberlain and an appeaser.

I thought he did fine. It could have been a bit more polished, but it was fine. He called out the media, he called out the entertainment industry, he called out congress, he called out O and he called out gun free zones.

We don't need some candy ***** response that shows weakness. The libs are salivating because they think we are scared. In reality, we are a bit. What we needed was a strong voice with a plan of action to actually do something and that is what we got.

Culture has a lot to do with many of our current issues. We do have a violent culture, not because of guns, but because of what our kids grow up watching and playing. I'm not placing the blame on the video games or movie industry, but they needed to be called out as they play a part, especially when parents are absent.

I HATE hypocrites and the entertainment industry is full of them.

mif_slim
12-21-2012, 9:13 PM
I wonder how many here actually takes up their ideas to the federal level? I mean I have my views but I cant do a quarter of the things NRA does....all this talking is just BS if your just sitting behind a computer spewing it.... go out, start a organization, fight a good figjt then you can say allllllllll you want.

Gunlawyer
12-21-2012, 9:15 PM
Speech is gonna backfire against firearm owners. We have to figure out a way to prevent these massacres. Guns pay a big part in this violence. If we want to protect our right to bear arms we have to be willing to police ourselves. I have no problems with many of the regulations California has. I don't mind a waiting period, a background check doesn't bother me. I wish I could have 30 round mags and I wish I could ave a folding stock. But I also feel these elements really add to the lethality of these weapons in a civilian environment. If someone starts shooting at civilians I'd rather have him re-load nine times to get off 90 rounds.

Gun violence is minimal compared to other violence. Guns dont kill people. Nutjob and immoral people kill people.

bubbapug1
12-21-2012, 10:58 PM
Pilots use simulators to train pilots

Schools use simulators to train doctors

NASA uses simulators to train astronauts

And America uses TV and video simulators to train nut cases on how to kill people

bubbapug1
12-21-2012, 10:58 PM
Pilots use simulators to train pilots

Schools use simulators to train doctors

NASA uses simulators to train astronauts

And America uses TV and video simulators to train nut cases on how to kill people

mosinnagantm9130
12-21-2012, 11:01 PM
Did you read it, or do you just have comprehension problems? Or do you not believe Grossman when he says the Army was using similar games to desensitize soldiers? You think he made that up? Do you even know who he is? Did he say it teaches them to use firearms? Fail.

1. I did read it
2. Yes, I am aware of who he is
3. Read what you post, the Army isn't using games
4. No, he doesn't say that it teaches the use of firearms. However, that is a frequent argument used by the antis...also, I don't believe games "desensitize" people. GTA doesn't make me want to kill prostitutes, Red Dead Redemption doesn't make me want to kill old west gamg members, Forza 3 doesn't make me think it's OK to drive 200 mph, and Pac-Man doesn't make me want to go eat power pellets while running away from flamboyantly colored ghosts. So yes, I call bull**** that video games are responsible for this.

EDIT: re-reading the article you posted, yes, he does say that games teach children the use of weapons...which they don't.

GutPunch
12-21-2012, 11:22 PM
Pilots use simulators to train pilots

Schools use simulators to train doctors

NASA uses simulators to train astronauts

And America uses TV and video simulators to train nut cases on how to kill people

AND... nutcases MAKE THE CHOICE to act on their "training" :rolleyes: and CHOOSE to kill people. Blame everything under the sun except the people who consciously decided to murder.

madjack956
12-21-2012, 11:54 PM
Sounds like a lot of people have some great ideas to address the public.

I think all that feel so strongly about how Wayne LaPierre failed us should draft the next speech and submit it for approval. If delivery was the issue maybe he will allow you to address the country personally, as long as your ideas pass muster. After all, you are the NRA too.

rdunaway62
12-22-2012, 12:27 AM
I don't write much here but after reading some of the writings here, I had to add my 2 cents.

The thing that I don't like about this whole incident, is the fact that the media attacked gun rights from the beginning of this incident. Sensationalized it. Our regular "On the News Bureaucrats" decided to use this tragedy to add more 15 minutes to their fame. They should all be a shamed of themselves.

The 2 problems that have not been addressed here.

1.) Faculty of the school failed to (did not) follow protocol. This young man should not have been allowed on school campus in the first place. Even if his mother worked or use to work there regardless if the faculty new him. He had no reason to be there.

2.) Blame this tragedy on you local government. They are taking our rights away to protect yourselves. They are not giving enough protection to or children. Do you know why??? It simple. They don't vote and cannot contribute to their campaign.

I feel for the parents and families that are suffering from this tragedy. My heart goes out to them. But put the blame where it belongs, Media, Faculty of the school and Government. Not to mention the young man who created this incident in the first place.

One last thing.

I guess for what ever reason Wayne LaPierre felt that something had to be said. I don't think that this was the best time for him to say what he had to say. Especially since parents they are still in mourning of these children. But he did what he did.

Do you really think that Wayne LaPierre and me as well are going to just lay down and have the Government take my 2A rights away??? No! So let's be realistic.

My Two Cents
--
rdunaway62

glockwise2000
12-22-2012, 12:35 AM
Hhhmmm. I think he just spoke the truth. I agree more that armed guards are somewhat deterent to perpetrators to attack a defenseless school.

In the country where I grew up, every security guards are armed with pistols and shotgun or SBS and so far no incidents like what happened to Newtown, CT inside the campus.

At least Mr. La Pierre didn't sugar coat it. No more going around. Just straight to the point.

Safety1st
12-22-2012, 12:36 AM
The media did not expect the NRA to come out swinging. That put them back on their heels a bit.


We spend hundreds of billions protecting the corrupt Afghan government but we can't afford two cops at every school?? Bull*****.

glockwise2000
12-22-2012, 12:37 AM
I don't write much here but after reading some of the writings here, I had to add my 2 cents.

The thing that I don't like about this whole incident, is the fact that the media attacked gun rights from the beginning of this incident. Sensationalized it. Our regular "On the News Bureaucrats" decided to use this tragedy to add more 15 minutes to their fame. They should all be a shamed of themselves.

The 2 problems that have not been addressed here.

1.) Faculty of the school failed to (did not) follow protocol. This young man should not have been allowed on school campus in the first place. Even if his mother worked or use to work there regardless if the faculty new him. He had no reason to be there.

2.) Blame this tragedy on you local government. They are taking our rights away to protect yourselves. They are not giving enough protection to or children. Do you know why??? It simple. They don't vote and cannot contribute to their campaign.

I feel for the parents and families that are suffering from this tragedy. My heart goes out to them. But put the blame where it belongs, Media, Faculty of the school and Government. Not to mention the young man who created this incident in the first place.

One last thing.

I guess for what ever reason Wayne LaPierre felt that something had to be said. I don't think that this was the best time for him to say what he had to say. Especially since parents they are still in mourning of these children. But he did what he did.

Do you really think that Wayne LaPierre and me as well are going to just lay down and have the Government take my 2A rights away??? No! So let's be realistic.

My Two Cents
--
rdunaway62

Well said.

adrenaline
12-22-2012, 12:37 AM
He spoke the truth....plain and simple.

"The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it." – George Orwell

Excelsior
12-22-2012, 1:07 AM
First off to all the flamers n haters...
I love my guns and will fight to keep them, I firmly believe it is our right to keep them... no matter what some liberal in Sacramento or DC says.



Wayne LaPierre just did more for the anti-gun side in his 30 minute speech than their best lawyers have in 20 years! He screwed the pooch by opening his big damn mouth... At a time like this I feel he should have been more respectful and kept silent until after Christmas and then commented with a carefully formulated plan. He just poured gasoline on the campfire by suggesting armed guards posted at every school in the nation. The liberal press is already having a field day with it!

Then he suggests violent video games and movies are to blame, then shifts over to music with violent lyrics! Seems like he cannot make up his mind on who, or what, to blame! The only thing I didnt hear him blame is who I hold responsible... the news media! If they didnt sensationalize every damn one of these whack job killers then maybe they wouldnt look at it as their way to infamy and glory. <-- Again my opinion!

He comments how a child today witnesses 16,000 murders and 200,000 violent acts by the time they reach 18 years of age. And that's why these whackos do this stuff.

If his theory were to hold water then what about the children in post WWII Europe, Vietnam, kids today in war ravaged Israel/Gaza, or Iraq/Afganistan... They see real deaths/murders/violence everyday... Not television pretend stuff. Apply his theory there and we are helping to raise a new even more viscious generation of terrorists in the mid-east now!

The NRA and their security in DC should have anticipated all the whack job protestors and ID'd and frisked everyone before they could enter... Again no forethought or planning at all!

Another thing that chapped my hide is when he mentioned that there are 4 million moms and dads that are members of the NRA... 4.3 vs 311 million in US isnt much of the population! He would have been better off quoting the number of gun owners, which is a much larger number! I dont know if I will re-join the NRA now after this press conference, and I understand that they need us more than ever and we need them more than ever. Perhaps we need a new organization to assist us going down the road. Or we need a new board of directors in the NRA!

Doh!


Please I didnt post this to get flamed... constructive comments here.

What was your opinion of this NRA News Conference?

After the shootings I read post after post from losers hammering away at the NRA for being silent for a week. Now you hammer them for saying something before Christmas.

What a load of crap.

As I type right now the NRA has set a direction and is currently in the process of coming up with a security program that will make students/schools safer. They are doing something constructive. They have taken the initiative because no one else is doing anything right now except ranting.

LaPierre got the job done on Friday.

Excelsior
12-22-2012, 1:11 AM
I don't write much here but after reading some of the writings here, I had to add my 2 cents.

The thing that I don't like about this whole incident, is the fact that the media attacked gun rights from the beginning of this incident. Sensationalized it. Our regular "On the News Bureaucrats" decided to use this tragedy to add more 15 minutes to their fame. They should all be a shamed of themselves.

The 2 problems that have not been addressed here.

1.) Faculty of the school failed to (did not) follow protocol. This young man should not have been allowed on school campus in the first place. Even if his mother worked or use to work there regardless if the faculty new him. He had no reason to be there.

2.) Blame this tragedy on you local government. They are taking our rights away to protect yourselves. They are not giving enough protection to or children. Do you know why??? It simple. They don't vote and cannot contribute to their campaign.

I feel for the parents and families that are suffering from this tragedy. My heart goes out to them. But put the blame where it belongs, Media, Faculty of the school and Government. Not to mention the young man who created this incident in the first place.

One last thing.

I guess for what ever reason Wayne LaPierre felt that something had to be said. I don't think that this was the best time for him to say what he had to say. Especially since parents they are still in mourning of these children. But he did what he did.

Do you really think that Wayne LaPierre and me as well are going to just lay down and have the Government take my 2A rights away??? No! So let's be realistic.

My Two Cents
--
rdunaway62

Good point. I had to take a photo of a bronze historical plaque on a local elementary school. As I walked towards the plaque I thought "what the heck, I'll check in at the office." Oh my! I had to sign-in and state a reason I was going on campus (the plaque was 25' away.) I had to show ID. There was talk of an escort until the principal's assistant recognized me. I was then given a visitor's badge and sent on my way.

Hoshnasi
12-22-2012, 1:12 AM
After the shootings I read post after post from losers hammering away at the NRA for being silent for a week. Now you hammer them for saying something before Christmas.

What a load of crap.

As I type right now the NRA has set a direction and is currently in the process of coming up with a security program that will make students/schools safer. They are doing something constructive. They have taken the initiative because no one else is doing anything right now except ranting.

LaPierre got the job done on Friday.

We've disagreed in the past, but I agree with you on this one.

Kharn
12-22-2012, 5:14 AM
1.) Faculty of the school failed to (did not) follow protocol. This young man should not have been allowed on school campus in the first place. Even if his mother worked or use to work there regardless if the faculty new him. He had no reason to be there.There are multiple ways to gain entry to a building, even if the doors are secure. Someone can ring the buzzer (firearm concealed from any cameras) until an authorized person opens the door to tell the perp face-to-face to go away (most will open the door even if protocol says not to, not wanting to involve the cops), perp shoots victim in the face and pushes his way into the facility. Or, break out a window and gain entry through that route. Or if the building has portable classrooms or out-buildings, wait by a door until a class exits the building. Or, just wait until the end of the day when parents and children are milling around the property and the doors aren't requiring each person be identified and buzzed in.

At the end of the day, you cannot keep out a determined individual so contingency plans must assume the hostile person(s) have breached the perimeter.

VictorFranko
12-22-2012, 5:20 AM
Pilots use simulators to train pilots

Schools use simulators to train doctors

NASA uses simulators to train astronauts

And America uses TV and video simulators to train nut cases on how to kill people

Bubba, that's actually a very good analogy............

Outta Control
12-22-2012, 6:01 AM
...Want to freak out, watch Alton then watch a Thomas Dolby video.

Major Alton fan here, the Good Eats theme is my cell phone ring tone!

+1

Alton does look like Thomas Dolby. :) BTW Alton Brown Rox! (also a fan here)

savannah
12-22-2012, 6:42 AM
There are multiple ways to gain entry to a building, even if the doors are secure. Someone can ring the buzzer (firearm concealed from any cameras) until an authorized person opens the door to tell the perp face-to-face to go away (most will open the door even if protocol says not to, not wanting to involve the cops), perp shoots victim in the face and pushes his way into the facility. Or, break out a window and gain entry through that route. Or if the building has portable classrooms or out-buildings, wait by a door until a class exits the building. Or, just wait until the end of the day when parents and children are milling around the property and the doors aren't requiring each person be identified and buzzed in.

At the end of the day, you cannot keep out a determined individual so contingency plans must assume the hostile person(s) have breached the perimeter.



He wasn't buzzed in, he shot his way through a glass window and let himself in. Faculty did not let him through the door.

Mulay El Raisuli
12-22-2012, 6:45 AM
To those of you saying that they should have said "this is the fault of parents" instead of this is the fault of the media and video games" time to get in touch with reality. You wont sway any of the feel gooders by telling them they are the ones ****ing up, they are all about shirking responsibility. It's all in the manifesto, you guys need to read it. They are just doing the dance. The feel gooders are a bunch of sheep so the plan is: throw an idea out there wait for the masses to start thinking hey video games are violent we should ban those. Takes the spotlight off of us.


Distraction & deflection are good tactics.


First, I admit, I don't care for Wayne LaPierre and his firebrand style of character assasination and half truths, but today....

He did a very good job. He told the truth no one...NO ONE wants to hear (except maybe us!!). He laid out a plan, and I think the guy actually was disraught about the killings, but he tried to hide it...which is why he's the VP of the NRA and not the President of the USA.

I ACTUALLY think he has laid out a very good substantial plan to help resolve the issue. And note, he said the immediate fix is armed guards on campus. Immediate, and not pie in the sky, lets kick the F--king can down the road stuff like the congress came up with on financial matters

Good Job Wayne....I cannot believe I would ever say that. I even wrote to my school district asking them to seriously review the SOP's he suggested.

The logic and analogies Wayne used were just spot on, and its pretty tough to rebut any portion of his speech at all.


THIS is a real good idea. It would get the school admin types thinking about this, instead of thinking of ways to further un-protect the children.


How's the coffee at the Violence Policy Institute? Any hot girls working there?


LMAO! I'm sure. Because after all, the hottest chicks are Liberal chicks.


Pilots use simulators to train pilots

Schools use simulators to train doctors

NASA uses simulators to train astronauts

And America uses TV and video simulators to train nut cases on how to kill people


I recall an incident where a kid played hours & HOURS of a first-person shooter game (which had a pistol-shaped controller) & then went on a rampage at a school? He never handled a 'real' gun in his life until the day he stole one (from his dad?) & fired 11 shots at a bunch of girls. And got 11 hits. All in the head.

I'm short of time today, so you'll have to wait until I can properly research this for more details.

As for the speech by WlP, SOMETHING had to be said. If we waited any longer we'd have the media saying something for us. And I like what was said.


The Raisuli

SocomM4
12-22-2012, 7:36 AM
I believe it was a very well thought out speech.

Hopalong
12-22-2012, 7:42 AM
Here's the bottom line for me

The reality is, is that the innocence is gone

For "gun free zones", "sanctuaries" for our kids, and life like it used to be

It doesn't really matter what the cause is, it really can't be known

People pick the cause, by what they want to believe in, how they are programmed

Whether it be guns, mental illness, crazy people, video games, lack of morals, values and on and on.

Maybe it's a combination of all of the above.

So, what's the solution?

The choices are between bad and worse, and no one can tell which is which

It's a tough pill to swallow

Anyone who speaks to this issue, no matter what is said, or how it's said

Will be vilified in one way or another.

So Wayne La Pierre really can't win

But he got up there anyway, and threw out some stuff to chew and stew on

I give him credit for that

tackdriver
12-22-2012, 8:14 AM
Surprised he didnt say armed guards should be at movie theaters. For the vice pres of an organization that has 4 million members, I would have expected a response better thought out. Perhaps he should have let the Pres do the talking. Addressing the misinformation being put out by the uninformed would have been a good start. The often used stupid comment #1 "AR's only purpose is to kill people" would have been a good start.

Speaking of misinformation:

The jerk was not LET into the school, he forced his way in....

"Local politicians don't provide enough protection for children because they don't vote"??? Good lord where does THIS stuff come from??

SgtDinosaur
12-22-2012, 8:18 AM
1. I did read it
2. Yes, I am aware of who he is
3. Read what you post, the Army isn't using games
4. No, he doesn't say that it teaches the use of firearms. However, that is a frequent argument used by the antis...also, I don't believe games "desensitize" people. GTA doesn't make me want to kill prostitutes, Red Dead Redemption doesn't make me want to kill old west gamg members, Forza 3 doesn't make me think it's OK to drive 200 mph, and Pac-Man doesn't make me want to go eat power pellets while running away from flamboyantly colored ghosts. So yes, I call bull**** that video games are responsible for this.

EDIT: re-reading the article you posted, yes, he does say that games teach children the use of weapons...which they don't.

OK, I guess you and Grossman disagree. Fair enough. You probably are more qualified.

billmaykafer
12-22-2012, 8:34 AM
i liked his speech. i am tired of anti-gun idiots using a computer keyboard as an "assault Weapon" on my civil right known as the second amendment to the us constitution bill of rights.

Rusty Scabbard
12-22-2012, 8:36 AM
Unfortunately, I have to agree with many in regards to poor planning and piss poor delivery. To suggest that schools employ armed guards at every school immediately after this tragic event (given the fact that he suggested that the NRA would propose meaningful suggestions) does not encourage support for the NRA at all. Yes, that could have been a suggestion if there were a number of other suggestions but unfortunately, his delivery and tone did not do us any justice. It would have been better for him to simply make no comment at all if that is all that he could have offered.

It would have been better if he could have offered other considerations or options in addition to the suggestion of employing armed guards. Suggestions like the following:

1. The NRA sponsoring family education forums/classes designed to help families (including their children) learn how to handle active shooter situations.

2. Educational classes hosted by NRA sponsored organizations which teach parents (and children) how to remain vigilant in understanding the Code of Mental Awareness scale as well as responsible gun ownership.

3. Continued expressed verbal support for current gun laws including a brief explanation of those laws the NRA favors and supports.

4. Law enforcements seminars and trainings offered for current LEAs/LEOs which the NRA would sponsor or host or financial support for increased LEO training to officers in smaller, less financially supported, areas of the country.

5. Recommendations, or the suggestion, that the NRA favors employing armed guards at schools and a willingness to establish a matching fund to employ such individuals beginning immediately at this current school (for helping the children feel safer) and other school locations with high crime statistics.

6. Some type of partnership with law enforcement agencies to support voluntary gun buy back programs or some other type of program which helps common people understand that they NRA supports people's choices to turn in their firearms if they want to but still encourages personal freedoms when it comes to responsible gun ownership.

7. A willingness to then identify statistics which demonstrate the number of gun crimes versus other types of common crimes/accidents which help to demonstrate to others that although there are a high number of gun crimes, there are also more likely situations (i.e. car accidents, hit and runs, whatever) that will cause problems for average folks.

Unfortunately, by not doing something like this and instead sending out a direct, confrontational response like he showed, it does not send a positive message to those who already view NRA members and supporters as whack jobs. Whereas I definitely support the efforts of the NRA, this approach taken today definitely did nothing to provide support or even understanding of the cause.

Well said ! As others have noted in followup posts, perhaps he did cover some of these things, but the delivery and tone could have been much better. Be prepared for an adversarial audience, many members of which will take every effort to ridicule and demean the message and messenger. Have a response that shows they're a greater obstacle to a solution than we are. Have a few people in the audience who are just a passionate about our cause as Code Pink members are about their unrealistic view of the problem. I ended up seeing the main point of his conference being the suggestion of armed guards in schools. Perhaps right or wrong, but that was not a good message to send, or a truly viable solution to a complex problem.

Something that is missing in my opinion, to a large part in Wayne's conference and missing in the national debate as well, is a passionate defense of the 2nd amendment itself. Bloomberg, Toure' (MSNBC) and countless other talking heads now openly ridicule the concept that the 2nd amendment is a protection against tyranny and that anyone who believes this is either mentally unbalanced or a paranoid nut-job. Really ? Does that include Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Madison, and the millions of people who built this country ? Look at the world today - Assad just murdered over 39,000 citizens in his country and it looks like he still may loose. Too bad all those people got a hold of weapons. Perhaps the next dictator in such a country would be more likely to weigh the risks and possible outcomes before sending the secret police door to door to kill opposition members.
And by the way Mr. Bloomberg, I am an NRA life member and the NRA represents my beliefs fairly well. I do believe citizens should have access to black rifles and high capacity magazines. In fact, I think they have an obligation to do so. I personally would support regulations to increase background checks and require secure storage of weapons and ammunition, but I think mindlessly throwing the 2nd amendment out the window would be one of the greatest mistakes we could make as a nation of free men.

Jack L
12-22-2012, 8:51 AM
Wait until this Sunday when he is on Meet The Press. Within a few weeks you'll see many schools wanting a professional armed security guard. The left wing anti's will be amazed how many schools will rethink their position on hiring a professional armed guard. Not a teacher or a volunteer but a real pro.

donw
12-22-2012, 8:53 AM
attacking La Pierre and the NRA is counter productive...the NRA is one of the few gun rights organizations in this country that's helped the cause by promoting the use and ownership of firearms, promotes and provides PROPER training for LE and defended the 2A with tenacity.

i say that if all these nonsensical laws are passed in ca, the NRA should boycott any father training or support of LE.

this legislation is nothing more than a move by Deleon and Yee to make California into a police state.

yesterday, i had an FFL dealer tell me he would take the bullet button OFF of his MSR and will NOT surrender it if the AWB passes.

Kharn
12-22-2012, 8:55 AM
Surprised he didnt say armed guards should be at movie theaters. For the vice pres of an organization that has 4 million members, I would have expected a response better thought out. Perhaps he should have let the Pres do the talking. Addressing the misinformation being put out by the uninformed would have been a good start. The often used stupid comment #1 "AR's only purpose is to kill people" would have been a good start.

Speaking of misinformation:

The jerk was not LET into the school, he forced his way in....

"Local politicians don't provide enough protection for children because they don't vote"??? Good lord where does THIS stuff come from??Since Mr Heston's passing, LaPierre has been the face of the organization. He did not discuss movie theaters because they are a commercial enterprise, if they want armed guards they can hire them. Schools do not have that choice.

socal2310
12-22-2012, 9:05 AM
I disagree with Wayne on several points, but he couldn't realistically say anything else: He has to please the core constituency of the NRA which as a practical matter is just as knee-jerk and reactionary as the gun-banners, without sounding too insensitive to the public.

The beginning of this article (http://kontradictions.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/why-not-renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-well-ill-tell-you/) is something that desperately needs to be addressed: we are formulating policy in response to events that, while horrifying, are exceedingly rare.

"When contemplating any course of action, first consider doing nothing." Anonymous

Ryan

Excelsior
12-22-2012, 9:21 AM
You are looking at it backwards. The one who starts shooting will have a 30 round magazine he got from his local gangbang store, much the way hippies get their weed today.

The question is what would you like to have on you when the crazy person starts shooting at you with his preferred weapon of choice that is configured to fit his needs, not your desires or the laws.

In context of CT shooting, you are regulating the teachers and administrators as they are already facing an illegal gun, illegal configuration, illegal method of carry and illegal intent.

Good grief... :facepalm:

Excelsior
12-22-2012, 9:25 AM
First off to all the flamers n haters...


You say that in a thread you title:

Wayne LaPierre Just Screwed Us All By Opening His Mouth

Pot/kettle/black. You need to smarten up, man.

billmaykafer
12-22-2012, 9:27 AM
blaming NRA for gun violence is like blaming AAA for drunk driving.

glocksmith
12-22-2012, 9:29 AM
I thought the speech was fine.

Money will win this fight, nothing else.

Excelsior
12-22-2012, 9:45 AM
I thought the speech was fine.

Money will win this fight, nothing else.

$$$ and members...

javalos
12-22-2012, 9:54 AM
Armed security makes sense. A good friend of mine had great insight on security. We are expected to enroll our kids at a government ran school, if you don't you're in trouble. So we leave them in the care and responsibility for 8 hours or so in the hands of the government. If that's the case, then its up to the government to protect them. If any kids get hurt there, then they have failed to look after them properly while in their care. I thought her insight made sense.

ZigZags
12-22-2012, 9:57 AM
I think the NRA could use a PR overhaul. Starting with a new Public Relations Speaker...Wayne should retire and they should hire someone young and vibrant. Not another crusty old white guy.

luvtolean
12-22-2012, 10:17 AM
I think the NRA could use a PR overhaul. Starting with a new Public Relations Speaker...Wayne should retire and they should hire someone young and vibrant. Not another crusty old white guy.

Exactly

bob7122
12-22-2012, 10:26 AM
i agree with almost all the NRA had to say. i disagree with the parts of video games, movies, etc.

SilverTauron
12-22-2012, 10:36 AM
I think the NRA could use a PR overhaul. Starting with a new Public Relations Speaker...Wayne should retire and they should hire someone young and vibrant. Not another crusty old white guy.

Ill say it for the thousandth fracking time, it wouldn't matter.

Jesus Himself could take the podium for the NRA discussing how all of us should learn to love one another, and the media would demand he be re-crucified anyway.

The problem is not the public speaking skills of Wayne LaPierre. The problem is that our media considers guns to be a public menace , and they will not cease with their anti-gun drivel until we bump out the UK as the World's Worst Place to Be a Gun Owner.

IVC
12-22-2012, 11:19 AM
Good grief... :facepalm:

Ok, cut me some slack. The point was that one doesn't have to live in a rough neighborhood or have serious underground connections to become a part of the criminal distribution channel, the black market.

It's the rest of the post that matters.

Extra411
12-22-2012, 11:20 AM
OK, I guess you and Grossman disagree. Fair enough. You probably are more qualified.

Do you know how many research say video games do not cause violence? Here's a hint, a lot.

Anyone who calls video games "murder simulators", such as David Grossman does, cannot be taken as one that wishes to engage the topic fairly. I have no interest in arguing with someone that calls AR15s "murder rifles" or "massacre guns" either.

HatersLOVEme : )
12-22-2012, 12:10 PM
IMO I really think it has way more to do with Social decay than video games and violence on t.v. anyone who says different is just projecting blame on to the tool or medium used in a act rather than the actual driving force behind it - this displacement is easier for us to stomach for some reason like when I'm using a hammer and I whack my thumb really good I go stupid hammer not stupid me when the blame is all mine .

I feel for the families but this nut job would have done bad things with or without guns he could have just as easily used a car to do this are we going to outlaw those too ?!? The problem is some parents don't get to know there kids anymore some don't even go to teacher parent night or regulate what their kids watch or see or heck at the very least explain what their kids are seeing or dealing with on a daily basis yet think its ok / right to let the public school systems and t.v. / media / strangers raise their kids . Come on now video games create killers as much as toy guns make war we were all subjected to plenty of violence growing up through video games, cartoons, sports its absolutely no excuse or reason - not being a part of your kids life or taking a active role in their well being / teaching them right from wrong in the home before they go out into the world is .

With the right organization and open minds some of these problems could actually fix themselves many schools are implementing and allowing Teachers to carry at school with the right training / certification and approval of course . Sometimes the problem is the solution rather than spending / wasting all this money on silly gun control laws and enforcing them which they have already failed at miserably again and again since things like this keep happening . So why not try a completely new approach and take said funds and use it to train these underpaid Teachers that are willing to do so ? Our schools would be safer there wouldn't need to be a security guard with a target on there back or our kids growing up feeling like they are being policed or watched by big brother .

Heck I'm pretty sure if asked some firearm manufactures would donate guns just to save face / their image in the public eyes . I think America needs to grow up and realize that sometimes violence can only be detoured and derailed with the threat of more violence or answered with reciporcation actual violence itself it is a sad truth that the lesser of two evils is still evil ( not to most gun supporters ) but doesn't negate the need for it or make it any less true that something has to be done and the way they have been going about it limiting the number of rounds a magazines holds regulating / banning evil features and things they clearly just don't understand like shoulder things that go up and imaginary bullet button loopholes is not working plain and simple .

Meplat
12-22-2012, 12:28 PM
OleCuss;

I disagree with you a lot but that is one of the best evaluations of the speech I have heard. Very perceptive; good job!


OK guys, simmer down on Wayne's speech. I'm not a huge fan, but a little perspective is required when evaluating this kind of stuff.

Remember a few things? The NRA has known there was a big problem they were going to have to deal with for a good week now. You can be damned certain that for at least the last 6 days Wayne has had his lobbyists, his friends in Congress, his lawyers, and some heavy-duty PR flacks working with him on every word and nuance in that little presentation. You can bet that they chose his clothing and made sure that his make-up and hair were just right to convey the desired message.

You and I were not the primary audience he was going after. You and I were not supposed to be going wild with agreement - we just weren't supposed to be ticked off enough to resign membership.

He needed to re-frame the discussion and change the attack from one where the NRA and firearms are the focus and at least divert some of the heat to the press, to Hollywood, and to a failed approach to mental illness.

I think he did about as good a job as anyone could hope for.

If you wish to dislike him, do it for something else.

JMP
12-22-2012, 12:47 PM
I thought the speech was fine.

Some people, especially rabid antis, will criticize anything he says because they have already made up their minds--the ranting protesters confirmed this. It was a good idea to NOT address the protestors as it would have been too risky to go off script to address people that cannot be cured. These people say that "The NRA is killing our children". It seems like a bizarre conclusion. Was Adam Lanza an NRA member?

Flipdude
12-22-2012, 12:50 PM
I agree with Wayne La Pierre regarding the solution to protecting our schools, which is more than I can say for the Obama administration. From the people who orchestrated operation Fast and Furious, they have no right to propose banning guns from law abiding citizens when there are thousands of unaccounted automatic and semi-automatic weapons in the hands of hard core criminals and murderers.

These are our children we are talking about. I support the National School Shield Response Program and I am willing to volunteer providing further training and certification to ensure the security of our children and local community.

SPROCKET
12-22-2012, 12:56 PM
Crap timing. Why the hell do you call a news conference and reignite things when the news cycle is starting to move on?

Shotgun Man
12-22-2012, 1:02 PM
I don't think I disagree with the content. The delivery was wanting however. He had his nose buried in his notes. You would think the NRA could afford a teleprompter like Obama has. Then the delivery could be crisp and confident.

Excelsior
12-22-2012, 1:16 PM
Crap timing. Why the hell do you call a news conference and reignite things when the news cycle is starting to move on?

No way.

The news cycle continued to fulminate, awaiting the press conference. Following the press conference there was another spike of emotion in the media.

NOW things should begin to slowly settle, particularly as we prepare for Christmas.

Excelsior
12-22-2012, 1:18 PM
I don't think I disagree with the content. The delivery was wanting however. He had his nose buried in his notes. You would think the NRA could afford a teleprompter like Obama has. Then the delivery could be crisp and confident.

I'm not entirely sure "crisp and confident" is appropriate right now.

RMP91
12-22-2012, 1:21 PM
No way.

The news cycle continued to fulminate, awaiting the press conference. Following the press conference there was another spike of emotion in the media.

NOW things should begin to slowly settle, particularly as we prepare for Christmas.

That's only true if the crazies stay indoors for the Holidays...

If even ONE crazy goes out and tries a copycat mass shooting, we're done for...

Flipdude
12-22-2012, 1:28 PM
That's only true if the crazies stay indoors for the Holidays...

If even ONE crazy goes out and tries a copycat mass shooting, we're done for...

There have been really bad pranks in several schools here in San Diego county regarding students threatening to bring weapons to school. Local LEOs have been busy with calls. Talk about the boy who cried wolf, the ignorance of some people. How is this going to help securing our schools? really!?:nono:

Flipdude
12-22-2012, 1:29 PM
Sorry double post.

mosinnagantm9130
12-22-2012, 1:59 PM
OK, I guess you and Grossman disagree. Fair enough. You probably are more qualified.

Video games have been around roughly 30 years. If video games were the root cause, you would think there would be a rise in violent crime rates over the last 30 years due to the spread of these games. The fact that crime rates have been on the decline while the popularity of games spreads is telling.

Tarn_Helm
12-22-2012, 3:34 PM
First off to all the flamers n haters...
I love my guns and will fight to keep them, I firmly believe it is our right to keep them... no matter what some liberal in Sacramento or DC says.

View video here:
SZb8EXUrQTo

Good God I miss Charlton Heston! . . . What was your opinion of this NRA News Conference?

LaPierre was brilliant.
:90:

You're wrong.
:facepalm:

IPSICK
12-22-2012, 3:52 PM
Although I thought the quality and diction of the speech could have been better, at least he proposed a solution to the problem.

Those who propose more controls and laws on guns are only hoping it will prevent violence when in reality it does not.

Also with the video using celebrities and sponsored by Mayors Against Illegal Guns and the Gun Violence Prevention Center, it really highlights media hypocrisy when these same celebs glorify guns in their shows and films. Wayne touched on this but his delivery, presentation, and references were a bit off and archaic.

Meplat
12-22-2012, 5:10 PM
Didn't watch the speech live -- read the transcript first.

As a political moderate, I feel the speech reads pretty well. I feel it was fairly well-crafted, and dramatically exceeds the typical content crapped out by the NRA, so kudos to them for rising to the occasion.

Watching the video, his delivery is poor, and he is a poor choice to be the face of the NRA. In this PR-driven world, they should replace him ASAP with a proper figurehead, even if WLP stays running things behind the scenes.

Just having a PR spokesperson like the white house uses might be a good idea. Personally I can’t stand silver tongued devils like BHO, but I guess maybe they have their place.:)

Apostolos
12-22-2012, 5:34 PM
Not a smooth delivery, but content was spot on.

God Bless,
David

Meplat
12-22-2012, 5:35 PM
You also destroy any chance of the media portraying you as a rational actor who is serious about protecting children.

I understand the dance and what you are saying, I just don't believe in throwing the 1A under the bus to protect the 2A

But the first will never go under the buss because it is what protects the media.

Darryl Licht
12-22-2012, 5:47 PM
I don't write much here but after reading some of the writings here, I had to add my 2 cents.

The thing that I don't like about this whole incident, is the fact that the media attacked gun rights from the beginning of this incident. Sensationalized it. Our regular "On the News Bureaucrats" decided to use this tragedy to add more 15 minutes to their fame. They should all be a shamed of themselves.

The 2 problems that have not been addressed here.

1.) Faculty of the school failed to (did not) follow protocol. This young man should not have been allowed on school campus in the first place. Even if his mother worked or use to work there regardless if the faculty new him. He had no reason to be there.

2.) Blame this tragedy on you local government. They are taking our rights away to protect yourselves. They are not giving enough protection to or children. Do you know why??? It simple. They don't vote and cannot contribute to their campaign.

I feel for the parents and families that are suffering from this tragedy. My heart goes out to them. But put the blame where it belongs, Media, Faculty of the school and Government. Not to mention the young man who created this incident in the first place.

One last thing.

I guess for what ever reason Wayne LaPierre felt that something had to be said. I don't think that this was the best time for him to say what he had to say. Especially since parents they are still in mourning of these children. But he did what he did.

Do you really think that Wayne LaPierre and me as well are going to just lay down and have the Government take my 2A rights away??? No! So let's be realistic.

My Two Cents
--
rdunaway62

AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except that school faculty/staff may or may not have followed protocol... early reports claimed whacko-lanzaland gained access by breaking a window.
I dont believe we know all the details yet on that particular item.

I frequently pick up or drop off my grandkids at school, one lives with us.
The "gatekeepers" are good about checking in etc. once the school is closed up.
It's the mornings and when the gates open at days end that is impossible for them to manage!
A free-for-all just before and just after school!

I also think that these school gatekeepers or someone in front office needs to be trained in firearms and concealed carry.
Perhaps even certain trained teachers and other staff.

Not knowing who might have a gun in the office, classrooms, or schoolyard might just be the best deterrant!

Meplat
12-22-2012, 5:53 PM
Speech is gonna backfire against firearm owners. We have to figure out a way to prevent these massacres. Guns pay a big part in this violence. If we want to protect our right to bear arms we have to be willing to police ourselves. I have no problems with many of the regulations California has. I don't mind a waiting period, a background check doesn't bother me. I wish I could have 30 round mags and I wish I could ave a folding stock. But I also feel these elements really add to the lethality of these weapons in a civilian environment. If someone starts shooting at civilians I'd rather have him re-load nine times to get off 90 rounds.


At least that is your hope. When you already have forty guns sitting in your safe, some of which have absolutely no paper trail? And you are going to walk into a gun store with staff that are likely to remember you and buy a gun with a big bright neon paper trail? If you were truly a shooter you would know there are numerous tactical ways around this little problem.

Meplat
12-22-2012, 5:59 PM
His speech was aimed at his base and fund raising, so he said what they wanted to hear. It was just a another vwersion of "not one inch." If his speech was designed to molify the antis, it was horrible, but I doubt that is what it was for.

On the other hand, I think he is falling victim to one of the anti gun assumptions, that guns are in fact the central issue here. He jsut thinks guns are the answers to the problem of school violence in the same way the anti guns think gun banning is the answer to school violence. neither is correct IMHO. Its a mental health issue.

These were guns stolen by a person on the verge of commitment. The "best" that more gun control could hope for is a few less bodies at the next shooting of this type.

I hope for his sake he raised a lot a money today, becasue he surely failed to do aything to bring sides together or suggest anything new for gun policy in this country. The risk with not participating in the process is the other side makes all the rules. I wonder if thats a risk we all want to take? Not that I have an answer

:troll:

Darryl Licht
12-22-2012, 6:02 PM
That's only true if the crazies stay indoors for the Holidays...

If even ONE crazy goes out and tries a copycat mass shooting, we're done for...

... I can see the conspiracy theorists minds spinning now!!! LOL!!!

Meplat
12-22-2012, 6:12 PM
You are looking at it backwards. The one who starts shooting will have a 30 round magazine he got from his local gangbang store, much the way hippies get their weed today.

The question is what would you like to have on you when the crazy person starts shooting at you with his preferred weapon of choice that is configured to fit his needs, not your desires or the laws.

In context of CT shooting, you are regulating the teachers and administrators as they are already facing an illegal gun, illegal configuration, illegal method of carry and illegal intent.

You are trying to reason with an anti :troll:

Meplat
12-22-2012, 6:49 PM
1. I did read it
2. Yes, I am aware of who he is
3. Read what you post, the Army isn't using games
4. No, he doesn't say that it teaches the use of firearms. However, that is a frequent argument used by the antis...also, I don't believe games "desensitize" people. GTA doesn't make me want to kill prostitutes, Red Dead Redemption doesn't make me want to kill old west gamg members, Forza 3 doesn't make me think it's OK to drive 200 mph, and Pac-Man doesn't make me want to go eat power pellets while running away from flamboyantly colored ghosts. So yes, I call bull**** that video games are responsible for this.

EDIT: re-reading the article you posted, yes, he does say that games teach children the use of weapons...which they don't.

You are probably over 14 years old. I don’t think games or movies are ‘the’ problem, and even if they are ‘a’ problem, which they can be with children and younger teens, the first amendment rightfully, gets in the way and it becomes a matter of parental supervision. God knows what effect these things have on deranged minds?

People under the age of about 14 (it varies between individuals) have trouble grasping the long range consequences of their actions. People under those ages and people suffering from some forms of arrested development can have trouble realizing that there is no reset button in real life.

Other than this I doubt games are a huge problem with normal well adjusted adults.

sh1nk3n
12-22-2012, 6:49 PM
My only wish was that he'd kept it to under a minute, to reduce the ability to edit. His concepts were sound, but he meandered and this enabled the gun grabbers to selectively edit for gain. Somehow, he didn't understand what was going to be done with his speech. Bad move.

The speech should have been "There is not much to say here - this was a tragedy, and we pray for the victims and our hearts go out to them. The right to defend oneself is absolute and anyone or anything limiting that right is immoral and unConstitutional, which means that we should rethink the laws that limit self-defense. Thank you for coming."

Meplat
12-22-2012, 6:58 PM
1.) Faculty of the school failed to (did not) follow protocol. This young man should not have been allowed on school campus in the first place. Even if his mother worked or use to work there regardless if the faculty new him. He had no reason to be there.


My Two Cents
--
rdunaway62

The last I heard the shooter was not “allowed” in, he broke into the school.

Darryl Licht
12-22-2012, 7:00 PM
I think still that LaPierre is a poor orator, he has an unconfident speaking style, no where near the speaker we need at this crucial point in time!

Poor timing has also been mentioned by many here.
I think the best thing he and our NRA could have done is wait- out of respect to the families until after the holidays.

Then in a speech after the New Year confidently state something similar to/along these lines:

...Out of respect, the NRA waited to respond to this tragedy until after the familes had time to mourn at what is certainly the most difficult time of the year for such a horrendous act to occur. I as a parent want to personally express my condolences to those familes affected by this terrible incident. The NRA will do everything within our power to prevent such a tragedy from occuring in the future. Additionally, we also chose not to to partake in the ratings-driven news media feeding frenzy at this clearly inappropriate time...

Meplat
12-22-2012, 7:06 PM
Good point. I had to take a photo of a bronze historical plaque on a local elementary school. As I walked towards the plaque I thought "what the heck, I'll check in at the office." Oh my! I had to sign-in and state a reason I was going on campus (the plaque was 25' away.) I had to show ID. There was talk of an escort until the principal's assistant recognized me. I was then given a visitor's badge and sent on my way.



And if you had been a bad guy the principle and all the office staff would have been dead in less time than it took them to check out a “good guy”. We don’t need bureaucratic solutions. We just need regular school employees who are willing and allowed to carry.

Meplat
12-22-2012, 7:16 PM
Wait until this Sunday when he is on Meet The Press. Within a few weeks you'll see many schools wanting a professional armed security guard. The left wing anti's will be amazed how many schools will rethink their position on hiring a professional armed guard. Not a teacher or a volunteer but a real pro.

You mean a professional target.

foreppin916
12-22-2012, 7:17 PM
I wish Wayne would of just put out crime statisticsof rifles used in shootings and every mass shooting during the last AWB amd maybe the crime rate during the last ban and also informed everyone what a real " assault weapon" is. And talked about all the uses for Ar 15's and videos showing 3 gun etc and why "normal capacity" mags are needed. And maybe that he agrees with reasonable gun control such as background checks through ffls and that's it! And the gunshow "loophole" is no loophole and 99.9% of gun owners shouldn't be blamed for the act of .01% and we didnt blame airplanes for 9/11 so why do we blame guns for this?we were willing to spend almost a trillion dollars on 10 years of war so why can't we invest Money into our children and not acting like banning guns will all of a sudden make criminals decide to obey laws.. The antis can't ignore statistical facts, well they can and they do but not by accident..

Meplat
12-22-2012, 7:24 PM
I think the NRA could use a PR overhaul. Starting with a new Public Relations Speaker...Wayne should retire and they should hire someone young and vibrant. Not another crusty old white guy.



As Garfield would say.

I resemble that remark!

And just what the hell is wrong with crusty old white guys? This is the attitude that got us Obummer!

Garand1911
12-22-2012, 10:07 PM
I believe he did a good speech, its much better than it started off as, look at it again. He dealt with the protester perfectly, dont feed into those nitwits, i thought security was slow to stop them.
I believe the NRA wanted to show 1)COMPASSION, that gun owners are not careless murderers, Waynes tone tried to reflect this. 2)IMMEDIATE SOLUTIONS, not some anti-gun law that will do nothing and take months or years to enact. 3)OTHER CAUSES AND ISSUES that need to be addressed, violence in the media and entertainment that is affecting someones brain before they even pick up a gun to commit murder.

I think some here are pissed that he didnt come out swinging a sledgehammer, if he did then the media would have a field day. They got no where to go other than the NRA wants armed security in schools, something thats been happening for over 20 years, and is not a bad idea. NO ONE ELSE has any other plan except gun bans.
Blaming the the news media right there would look petty.

The NRA had less than one week to deal with a tragedy, and come up with a speech, which may be less than perfect.
And do it under these circumstances; the media, politicians, anti-gunners, even a few pro-gunners are blaming the NRA and black rifle owners for the murder of children and want to see them swing at the end of a rope. Not an easy task, i would guess.

Excelsior
12-22-2012, 10:21 PM
My only wish was that he'd kept it to under a minute, to reduce the ability to edit. His concepts were sound, but he meandered and this enabled the gun grabbers to selectively edit for gain. Somehow, he didn't understand what was going to be done with his speech. Bad move.

The speech should have been "There is not much to say here - this was a tragedy, and we pray for the victims and our hearts go out to them. The right to defend oneself is absolute and anyone or anything limiting that right is immoral and unConstitutional, which means that we should rethink the laws that limit self-defense. Thank you for coming."

BULL. Like someone else mentioned, there were plenty of pros that had input on this press conference. From the timing of it, the content, Wayne's necktie, the knot style chosen, etc., etc. It's amusing to see the armchair consultants weighing-in afterwards.

Under a minute? No way. Too much information to disseminate. If this was held at the NRA HQ they should have had swifter security to get the hecklers out of there faster and before they could unfurl their banners.

Excelsior
12-22-2012, 10:24 PM
I believe he did a good speech, its much better than it started off as, look at it again. He dealt with the protester perfectly, dont feed into those nitwits, i thought security was slow to stop them.
I believe the NRA wanted to show 1)COMPASSION, that gun owners are not careless murderers, Waynes tone tried to reflect this. 2)IMMEDIATE SOLUTIONS, not some anti-gun law that will do nothing and take months or years to enact. 3)OTHER CAUSES AND ISSUES that need to be addressed, violence in the media and entertainment that is affecting someones brain before they even pick up a gun to commit murder.

I think some here are pissed that he didnt come out swinging a sledgehammer, if he did then the media would have a field day. They got no where to go other than the NRA wants armed security in schools, something thats been happening for over 20 years, and is not a bad idea. NO ONE ELSE has any other plan except gun bans.
Blaming the the news media right there would look petty.

The NRA had less than one week to deal with a tragedy, and come up with a speech, which may be less than perfect.
And do it under these circumstances; the media, politicians, anti-gunners, even a few pro-gunners are blaming the NRA and black rifle owners for the murder of children and want to see them swing at the end of a rope. Not an easy task, i would guess.

Yes, yes, yes and YES!

TrailerparkTrash
12-22-2012, 10:59 PM
[B] I dont know if I will re-join the NRA now after this press conference,
Yeah, thats the spirit! Your line of thinking will REALLY help our 2nd amendment cause! (NOT!)

...Perhaps we need a new organization to assist us going down the road. Or we need a new board of directors in the NRA!
Well, you know what they say.... Put up or sh#! up. Why don't you fund a brand new organization right now. That won't get very far. If the NRA can't get passed the news media barrier, what makes you think you can?

Seriously, an honest question here.

GutPunch
12-22-2012, 11:11 PM
I find it absolutely hilarious that in a crisis moment, when we are literally discussing the life and death of a country vis-a-va the domino effect of the collapse of 2A, that you would want to consider fragmenting the 2A community. Can you not see that this speech was not designed to be a rallying cry for gun owners? The strategy here isn't to give ourselves a pat on the back but to rather TRY to reach out to people who were following the emotional mob.

I can't remember who said it on this forum but they were damn right. "We eat our own." That is exactly what is going on here. YOU don't like that the NRA didn't come out and meet your exacting standards - whatever the hell they are. So instead of coming together, you would suggest that we reorganize one of the only groups which has the power to effect positive change?

Doesn't that sound like something the antis would love for us to do? Too damn busying fighting each to successfully combat the assault on 2A.

Just for full disclosure, I didn't like what he said about the media or video games. But that doesn't change the fact the struggle we are in is far more complex than the level of strategy suggested by people who would throw the NRA into turmoil on the eve of 2A's destruction. Wake up!

Excelsior
12-23-2012, 12:01 AM
I find it absolutely hilarious that in a crisis moment, when we are literally discussing the life and death of a country vis-a-va the domino effect of the collapse of 2A, that you would want to consider fragmenting the 2A community. Can you not see that this speech was not designed to be a rallying cry for gun owners? The strategy here isn't to give ourselves a pat on the back but to rather TRY to reach out to people who were following the emotional mob.

I can't remember who said it on this forum but they were damn right. "We eat our own." That is exactly what is going on here. YOU don't like that the NRA didn't come out and meet your exacting standards - whatever the hell they are. So instead of coming together, you would suggest that we reorganize one of the only groups which has the power to effect positive change?

Doesn't that sound like something the antis would love for us to do? Too damn busying fighting each to successfully combat the assault on 2A.

Just for full disclosure, I didn't like what he said about the media or video games. But that doesn't change the fact the struggle we are in is far more complex than the level of strategy suggested by people who would throw the NRA into turmoil on the eve of 2A's destruction. Wake up!

You're right. This problem is what I call "3D chess." There are a huge number of things to consider over a fairly long period of time and the checkers players are getting frustrated because they really have no clue about what's going on. They truly cannot comprehend why WLP simply didn't tell BHO to go have sex with himself.

That ignorance spawns pride in the form of "I'll be damned if I join the NA because...yada, yada, yada." Very sad when it comes right down to it. They need to join the NRA or remain quiet.

SilverTauron
12-23-2012, 3:21 AM
I find it absolutely hilarious that in a crisis moment, when we are literally discussing the life and death of a country vis-a-va the domino effect of the collapse of 2A, that you would want to consider fragmenting the 2A community. Can you not see that this speech was not designed to be a rallying cry for gun owners? The strategy here isn't to give ourselves a pat on the back but to rather TRY to reach out to people who were following the emotional mob.

I can't remember who said it on this forum but they were damn right. "We eat our own." That is exactly what is going on here. YOU don't like that the NRA didn't come out and meet your exacting standards - whatever the hell they are. So instead of coming together, you would suggest that we reorganize one of the only groups which has the power to effect positive change?

Doesn't that sound like something the antis would love for us to do? Too damn busying fighting each to successfully combat the assault on 2A.

Just for full disclosure, I didn't like what he said about the media or video games. But that doesn't change the fact the struggle we are in is far more complex than the level of strategy suggested by people who would throw the NRA into turmoil on the eve of 2A's destruction. Wake up!

The problem is that the "2A Community"...... isn't one .

Sure, some of us are politically involved and are members of the NRA , and others are contributing to the SAF, GOA, and so on. But as a whole gun owners are NOT a united political block.

The NRA's membership is just over 4 million. There's an estimated 90 million gun owners in America. That means almost 95% of gun owners are freeloading off the activism of a select few. Worse, some of these freeloaders are siding with the Brady's on an AR15 ban after Sandy Hill. The majority of casual gun owners with a shotgun over the fireplace are agreeing with the anti-gunners because heck, their 5 shot 12 gauge does the job of home defense just fine. Who needs 30 rounds to keep out a burglar , they think.

So the idea of a "2nd Amendment Community" is laughable. Imagine if 95% of the Brady Campaign was in favor of lifting the NFA while 5% wanted all guns banned, and you'll have an understanding of why us gun owners seem to self destruct. Our team is divided at the very core-and divided houses don't stand very long.

SPUTTER
12-23-2012, 3:46 AM
The 2nd has nothing to do with hunting or crime.

Tarn_Helm
12-23-2012, 3:53 AM
I think still that LaPierre is a poor orator, he has an unconfident speaking style, no where near the speaker we need at this crucial point in time!

Poor timing has also been mentioned by many here.
I think the best thing he and our NRA could have done is wait- out of respect to the families until after the holidays.

Then in a speech after the New Year confidently state something similar to/along these lines:

...Out of respect, the NRA waited to respond to this tragedy until after the familes had time to mourn at what is certainly the most difficult time of the year for such a horrendous act to occur. I as a parent want to personally express my condolences to those familes affected by this terrible incident. The NRA will do everything within our power to prevent such a tragedy from occuring in the future. Additionally, we also chose not to to partake in the ratings-driven news media feeding frenzy at this clearly inappropriate time...

Wrong again.
:facepalm:

Watch his other speeches.

In this one he was very restrained in order to convey appropriate gravitas.

Look it up.
:facepalm:

movie zombie
12-23-2012, 9:22 AM
Here's the bottom line for me

The reality is, is that the innocence is gone

For "gun free zones", "sanctuaries" for our kids, and life like it used to be

It doesn't really matter what the cause is, it really can't be known

People pick the cause, by what they want to believe in, how they are programmed

Whether it be guns, mental illness, crazy people, video games, lack of morals, values and on and on.

Maybe it's a combination of all of the above.

So, what's the solution?

The choices are between bad and worse, and no one can tell which is which

It's a tough pill to swallow

Anyone who speaks to this issue, no matter what is said, or how it's said

Will be vilified in one way or another.

So Wayne La Pierre really can't win

But he got up there anyway, and threw out some stuff to chew and stew on

I give him credit for that


i agree. we can no longer pretend that the world has not changed. the anti's are still pretending. i hate that we've come to this: armed guards in schools. but it is a reality of our times. the "safe" world never really did exist.....but in today's age with media coverage and the internet we the public are more aware of the dangers of life than ever before.

WLPierre said what needed to be said when he said it. the NRA had to come out with something. he was respectful re the loss of life but very clear that there would be a fight to come if the bandaid to be applied is merely more gun control.

re armed guard/guards in schools: could come out of the Homeland Security budget.

re better mental health and support services: expect more taxes; are you willing to pay them? the idea that we'll reduce miltary spending to arm our schools is a myth.

i believe with all my heart that the only thing to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. his strength to get up and say what needed to be said AT THAT SPECIFIC TIME does not mean that the NRA won't get tougher after the first of the year. we were not his target audience......but we are the representatives of a long line 2A supporters and we have an obligation and duty to conduct ourselves in support of his message. one can nitpick and critique is delivery style but when i heard the bad guy/good guy reference, i sighed a breath of relief.

just my opinion, of course.

njineermike
12-23-2012, 10:03 AM
The high school I attended in Chicago in the 80's had an armed guard, but even the fast food joints there have armed guards. The high school in I attended in Tennesee just before it didn't but half the teachers had guns in their cars.

Number of shootings = 0

I find it very telling that some of us here can find nothing better to do than complain about every aspect of this and refuse to work as a team to make sure NO new gun laws are enacted. Makes me change my veiwpoint on some of our membership as to what they're REALLY here for.

Mulay El Raisuli
12-23-2012, 10:31 AM
Ill say it for the thousandth fracking time, it wouldn't matter.

Jesus Himself could take the podium for the NRA discussing how all of us should learn to love one another, and the media would demand he be re-crucified anyway.

The problem is not the public speaking skills of Wayne LaPierre. The problem is that our media considers guns to be a public menace , and they will not cease with their anti-gun drivel until we bump out the UK as the World's Worst Place to Be a Gun Owner.


Yup.


The Raisuli

audihenry
12-23-2012, 10:49 AM
He told the truth.
He didn't candy coat it.
Neither did he exaggerate or sensationalize it.
He didn't try to appease anyone.

Sorry, the time for respectful silence is over, now it's time to fight not to hide under the bed hoping we don't offend anyone by telling the truth.

He spoke as Wayne LaPierre and an NRA member not as Neville Chamberlain and an appeaser.

What truth? Pretty much every study disproves that there is any link between movie/video game violence and real-life violent shootouts/massacres/etc.

audihenry
12-23-2012, 10:51 AM
And America uses TV and video simulators to train nut cases on how to kill people

Study after study shows that this is not the case, do some research please.

HatersLOVEme : )
12-23-2012, 11:21 AM
And if you had been a bad guy the principle and all the office staff would have been dead in less time than it took them to check out a “good guy”. We don’t need bureaucratic solutions. We just need regular school employees who are willing and allowed to carry.

THIS ! Its one of the only viable answers ! There are already several schools doing it they should all follow suit since armed security guards will only be targets !

Heck if we planned it right we could supplement some poor underpaid teachers salary with training, qualification etc.and I'm sure we could even get firearm manufactures to donate firearms to help their public images its a win win !!!

Its WAY better than spending our tax dollars on gun laws that infringe on our 2A / civil rights that just don't work time and time again like reading the same book over and over again and expecting a different freaking ending . :wacko:

Meplat
12-23-2012, 12:01 PM
The high school I attended in Chicago in the 80's had an armed guard, but even the fast food joints there have armed guards. The high school in I attended in Tennesee just before it didn't but half the teachers had guns in their cars.

Number of shootings = 0

I find it very telling that some of us here can find nothing better to do than complain about every aspect of this and refuse to work as a team to make sure NO new gun laws are enacted. Makes me change my veiwpoint on some of our membership as to what they're REALLY here for.

We do have lots of trolls and moles.

Meplat
12-23-2012, 12:05 PM
What truth? Pretty much every study disproves that there is any link between movie/video game violence and real-life violent shootouts/massacres/etc.


It was a straw dog. A tactic. It will come to nothing. Get over it.

Darryl Licht
12-23-2012, 6:30 PM
THIS ! Its one of the only viable answers ! There are already several schools doing it they should all follow suit since armed security guards will only be targets !

Heck if we planned it right we could supplement some poor underpaid teachers salary with training, qualification etc.and I'm sure we could even get firearm manufactures to donate firearms to help their public images its a win win !!!

Its WAY better than spending our tax dollars on gun laws that infringe on our 2A / civil rights that just don't work time and time again like reading the same book over and over again and expecting a different freaking ending . :wacko:

Yessss~!!! :D:D:D I agree 100%!!!

Why spend more $ to hire and train more LEO' s that many cities are laying off/cutting, when we can ccw qualify and train those we already entrust with our youth! More communication and involvement between schools and LEO always a great thing too!

Like air marshalls, only school marshalls!

Hooligan
12-23-2012, 7:33 PM
I thought it was a good speech. He could have placed more blame on the psychos though. But, I felt he gave the media a fair share of the blame- and rightly so.

I like the premise of his plan and he brought up good points about banks and ball parks having security.

I wish he would have called for a repeal of the GFSZ crap. And called for the implementation of a nationwide CCW.

RobertSmith
12-23-2012, 7:49 PM
After his speech, I updated my NRA membership.

I heard a Calgunner once say, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

GO NRA!

sh1nk3n
12-27-2012, 6:23 AM
In reply to this and your reply to my original post, yes, this is indeed "3D Chess". And this is why I stated only that I wish his speech had been shorter. It was a good speech, I'm glad he made it, I know he was going to be damned if he did/damned if he didn't. And I also know that he has a plan that we do not fully understand (or at least I can surmise this), and so we may find in future that this speech fed into that plan perfectly. Or not.

I actually have a fair bit of experience in public relations, so I understand just how much of that speech was scripted (everything), and the level of savoir faire that was employed in setting it up/making it (major).

I still think he should have kept it tighter.

Excelsior
12-27-2012, 10:18 AM
What truth? Pretty much every study disproves that there is any link between movie/video game violence and real-life violent shootouts/massacres/etc.

Could you name a few, please?

Neil McCauley
12-27-2012, 11:13 AM
I agree with Wayne Lapierre and I think he's absolutely right. I don't feel boned by him, gun grabbers wouldn't have changed their opinion if he said anything or not, they simply hate guns.

Mulay El Raisuli
12-28-2012, 7:16 AM
I saw on ABC News last night that 64% of those polled thought that guns in school (teachers or cops) is a good thing.

Looks like WLP was & is on the right track.


The Raisuli

guns4life
12-28-2012, 7:21 AM
WLP for president

Goosebrown
12-28-2012, 7:42 AM
"Jesus Himself could take the podium for the NRA discussing how all of us should learn to love one another, and the media would demand he be re-crucified anyway."

No double jeopardy clause in the Roman Constitution I think...

Goosebrown
12-28-2012, 7:45 AM
"gun grabbers wouldn't have changed their opinion if he said anything or not, they simply hate guns. "

This is the key. The gun grabbers want one thing and one thing only. Ban guns. Period.

If they have to do it in small bites, they don't mind.

There is zero reason to compromise at all regardless of the issue with guns. We should push for MORE gun rights. I don't like WLPs idea here, but I will fight for it because we need to take as much as we possibly can now before its too late.

IVC
12-28-2012, 8:55 AM
What truth? Pretty much every study disproves that there is any link between movie/video game violence and real-life violent shootouts/massacres/etc.

He is not pushing for movie/video game bans, so he wasn't advocating a policy. It was a generic statement about the type of society we live in, combined with a PR shot at some of the proponents of gun control.

Better to talk about absurdity of banning video games, movies and guns, than just about absurdity of banning guns. Besides, it confuses the other side by opening additional talking points that are unsympathetic to some of their supporters - time spent on defense is time not spent on offense.

Wherryj
12-28-2012, 10:02 AM
The facts are usually not as sexy or flashy as innuendo posing for policy,but they're facts just the same.I don't think video games,movies,media or guns are the answer.There is no lightning bolt reason for why someone goes nuts and shoots up a school. Solving the problem means a multi faceted approach,one of which is acknowledging that violence in our media and video games is extremely commonplace.The same media that wants us all disarmed " for the safety of law enforcement" has no trouble broadcasting movies and TV shows where cops are routinely shot by bad guys.

Next,unlike the POTUS LaPierre actually proposed a viable solution to the problem of securing our schools.

If there is "one lightning bolt reason" it could be the media's coverage of these events. It seems preposterous to the "normal" person, but those who are mentally ill and experience homicidal impulses often see this as a way to "go out famous". It seems like a horrific lambasting of the perp to us, but to an unbalanced homicidal mind they see it as glorifying.

The media needs to stop giving these predators weeks of 24/7 publicity for their heinous acts. It only severs to spin up the copy cats to the point of acting and spins up those who are acting to try to "outdo" the "last hero".

Wherryj
12-28-2012, 10:04 AM
I saw on ABC News last night that 64% of those polled thought that guns in school (teachers or cops) is a good thing.

Looks like WLP was & is on the right track.


The Raisuli

The VP was always the "enforcer" at the schools that I attended. Perhaps the Vice Principal should be law enforcement. They could address the issues such as drugs/violence at the school and be "around" as a deterrent to those who would take advantage of the "gun free victim disarmament zone".

uyoga
12-28-2012, 4:01 PM
Wayne LaPierre said what he had to say.

Having armed guards (and adequately trained teachers) at schools is a measure against persons (bad persons); not against guns (inanimate objets).

The people clamoring for "action now", are demanding something be done with regard to guns - - not bad or sick people. This is misguided, irrational emotion.

His (the NRA's) solution identifies and addresses the root of the problem with exactitude and without political correctness.

His speech lends credibility to the fact that "the best defense to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun".

There is nothing else LaPierre could have said or done under the highly inflammatory circumstances existing at the time.

The current president's kids are (and have been) attending a school protected by ELEVEN armed guards - - this does not include the Secret Service contingent that usually accompanies them wherever they go.

Are his kids' lives more worthy than my kids' lives . . . . . . or your kids' lives.?

The thinking has to be directed and kept going in the right direction, and LaPierre's speech did just that.