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View Full Version : 2013 CA AB 48 - Skinner/Ammiano, Magazines // A - PS hearing April 2


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DFF
12-21-2012, 10:32 AM
AB 48 - http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140AB48
... and new-style link, http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140AB48

(The text is interesting, but the whole set of info is even MORE interesting.)

See also the Beginner's guide (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=161873) to reading bills and
a short post on How a Bill Becomes Law (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=591209)


http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/13-14/bill/asm/ab_0001-0050/ab_48_bill_20121220_introduced.pdf

DFF
12-21-2012, 10:38 AM
"The bill would revise the definition of “large-capacity magazine” to mean any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, including a readily restorable, as defined, disassembled large-capacity magazine, and an oversize magazine body that appears to hold in excess of 10 rounds. The bill would make related, conforming changes. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program."

Even the look of a 30 round mag (that is actually blocked to 10) is enough for the antis to poop in their panties.

Sinestr
12-21-2012, 12:22 PM
(b)*Subdivision (a) does not apply to the possession of a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine or an oversize magazine body that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds by a person who lawfully possessed the magazine prior to January 1, 2014

..................

DrewN
12-21-2012, 12:38 PM
Huh, this could be bad for my .50 Beowulf. Unless a marked floorplate makes a difference, Beowulf 10 rounders are essentially GI 30 rounders.

Dantedamean
12-23-2012, 9:40 AM
I hope they plan on grandfathering all the new high capacity magazines that will fall under This law.

phrogg111
12-23-2012, 10:12 AM
This bill makes people's legally possessed property illegal, and doesn't provide compensation.

This bill is unconstitutional.

It also makes it so we have to transfer ammo at a gun dealer, and makes it so police have to take a report every time a target shooter buys ammo for the weekend.

This bill is a complete waste of LEO time and money, and is unconstitutional.

AlexDD
12-23-2012, 2:29 PM
No hints with what is wrong/inconsistencies with bill so they can fix it. I can think of some items that may or may not be germane.

CitaDeL
12-23-2012, 2:50 PM
Constructive possession of disassembled high capacity magazines.

Epic.

Dantedamean
12-23-2012, 4:24 PM
No hints with what is wrong/inconsistencies with bill so they can fix it. I can think of some items that may or may not be germane.

This^^^^^

It will be interesting to see what arbitrary number they pick for reporting of the sale. I'm guessing 500.

JoshuaS
12-23-2012, 4:56 PM
So the 22lr lever gun I had my eye on will be banned, because it holds more than 10rds. Idiotic

kauaibuilt
12-23-2012, 5:10 PM
This bill makes people's legally possessed property illegal, and doesn't provide compensation.

This bill is unconstitutional.

It also makes it so we have to transfer ammo at a gun dealer, and makes it so police have to take a report every time a target shooter buys ammo for the weekend.

This bill is a complete waste of LEO time and money, and is unconstitutional.

I wondering how many CLEO will support the reporting requirement. Who gets in trouble if (1) a bad guy is able to buy bullets or (2) otherwise "legal" person snaps and goes on a shooting spree. Will it be the ammo seller, transferring FFL, CLEO, or CA DOJ?

Rackatak
12-23-2012, 7:20 PM
So the 22lr lever gun I had my eye on will be banned, because it holds more than 10rds. Idiotic

No. Refer to the original post and read the bill. We need to keep our facts straight.

Librarian
12-23-2012, 7:42 PM
No. Refer to the original post and read the bill. We need to keep our facts straight.

Right.

There's a reason there is a link to the bill text. Take the time to understand as much as you can.

Ask questions like
some bit of the billwhat does this mean? Be prepared to accept 'nobody is sure' as the answer.

kf6tac
12-23-2012, 7:44 PM
This bill makes people's legally possessed property illegal, and doesn't provide compensation.

No; the bill does not ban possession.

JoshuaS
12-23-2012, 9:45 PM
My mistake. I had clicked the "Today's Law As Amended" and saw that it struck out the mention of tubular magazines being exempt. It didn't show there the further section that exempted them.

pbreed
12-23-2012, 10:00 PM
Does the PC define tubular magazine?

monk
12-25-2012, 7:53 PM
Good thing they didn't think to add the 50 round magazines that are made from shark fin. This would've been disastrous as they're selling like hot cakes right now.

bigcalidave
12-26-2012, 10:41 AM
I guess they will have to outlaw all steel tubing, wouldn't want someone to make their own! Take a useless law, one that very few are ever prosecuted for, and make it more useless...

Librarian
12-26-2012, 11:09 AM
Raise your game, folks.

Threads about bills should not be a long gripe session.

Try something like Eugene Volokh - http://www.volokh.com/2012/12/26/up-to-50year-fee-up-to-30-day-waiting-period-for-buying-ammunition-or-going-target-shooting/

...
So, under either interpretation, Sen. De Leon’s proposal would make it harder for people to keep up their training in safe and effective gun use. It would make it harder for people to learn the basics about guns, by having a friend take them to the range. It would have relatively little effect on the rich and the upper middle class, but might be quite burdensome for poorer people.

And while it would burden the law-abiding, it would have basically no impact on would-be criminals, either career criminals or mass shooters. That’s true of many proposed gun restrictions; and it’s true of this one.

tintguy
12-26-2012, 11:20 AM
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to the possession of a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine or an oversize magazine body that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds by a person who lawfully possessed the magazine prior to January 1, 2014.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this bill now makes manufacture,import and sale a misdemnor. As before it was a felony. It looks like if you had your rebulid kit and 10/30 before 1-1-2014 then it gets grandfathered.

Buying ammo after the law takes effect will be a pain in the arse because it looks like you won't be able to buy online anymore. The law basically says it has to be a ftf transaction at a reseller. This law is defacto ammo registration. Say if you only had long guns and bought ammo for such now the state knows you have a long gun.

This bill would require anyone in the state, prior to selling, transferring, or otherwise furnishing ammunition to an individual or business entity in this state or any other state to require proper identification, as prescribed, to be an authorized firearms dealer, and to report the sales to the Department of Justice. An individual who fails to make the required report or who knowingly makes a report with false or fictitious information would be guilty of a misdemeanor, as specified. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.

taperxz
12-26-2012, 11:39 AM
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to the possession of a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine or an oversize magazine body that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds by a person who lawfully possessed the magazine prior to January 1, 2014.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this bill now makes manufacture,import and sale a misdemnor. As before it was a felony. It looks like if you had your rebulid kit and 10/30 before 1-1-2014 then it gets grandfathered.

Buying ammo after the law takes effect will be a pain in the arse because it looks like you won't be able to buy online anymore. The law basically says it has to be a ftf transaction at a reseller. This law is defacto ammo registration. Say if you only had long guns and bought ammo for such now the state knows you have a long gun.

This bill would require anyone in the state, prior to selling, transferring, or otherwise furnishing ammunition to an individual or business entity in this state or any other state to require proper identification, as prescribed, to be an authorized firearms dealer, and to report the sales to the Department of Justice. An individual who fails to make the required report or who knowingly makes a report with false or fictitious information would be guilty of a misdemeanor, as specified. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.

What they also need to understand is that it doesn't take much to drive to another state and stock up. Interstate commerce is mutha....

randian
12-26-2012, 4:23 PM
Buying ammo after the law takes effect will be a pain in the arse because it looks like you won't be able to buy online anymore. The law basically says it has to be a ftf transaction at a reseller.

Protectionist legislation for gun retailers, from liberals no less. Who would have thought?

The Wingnut
12-26-2012, 6:13 PM
This bill was likely constructed by a staff of advisors tasked to read this forum.

Illustrating all the shortcomings that are in this legislation as it's currently written gives them a roadmap to revise it. Should it pass, it will get jammed up in court by CGF and other entities. Let's not fight the grabbers' battle for them. Run silent, run deep, folks.

AlexDD
12-26-2012, 6:41 PM
This ^^^^

LOW2000
12-26-2012, 7:26 PM
http://nancyskinnerforassembly.com/

http://nancyskinnerforassembly.com/wp-content/themes/thesis_16/custom/images/banner-2012.png

http://nancyskinnerforassembly.com/issues/safe-neighborhoods/

Safe Neighborhoods
We need to do more to prevent gun violence. For example, we can require ballistic fingerprinting and integrated locks on all handguns sold in California.

We need to fund more community-based policing so that police can connect with the community where they serve. This will provide officers with a better understanding of the issues in that community, and the social services available to address their needs.

We need to reform our criminal statues. We should

Restore protections to our children which would prevent them from being prosecuted as adults;
Eliminate the three strikes rule by putting the issue back on the ballot;
Emphasize rehabilitation for first-time and minor offense offenders; and
Provide good support services to parolees to help them secure jobs and housing when they have finished serving their sentences.
The key to violence and crime prevention is education. Study after study shows that crime levels will drop if we invest in quality education from pre-school through college, make educational opportunities available and accessible to our children, and provide a safety net for youth and families in crisis.

Be Sociable, Share!


http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Nancy_Skinner

2010
In 2010, Skinner raised $860,336 in contributions. [11]
Her four largest contributors were:
Donor Amount
Electrical Workers Local 302 $15,600
California State Council Of Service Employees $15,000
AT&T $13,800
State Building & Construction Trades Council Of California $11,800
2008


2008 campaign banner
Below are Skinner's top 5 campaign contributors in the 2008 election:[12]
Contributor 2008 total
CA Medical Assoc $10,800
Northern CA Carpenters Regional Council $10,800
Electrical Workers Local 595 $9,700
California Federation of Teachers $8,200
Electrical Workers Local 302 $7,200

LOW2000
12-26-2012, 7:29 PM
http://www.tomammiano.com/

http://www.tomammiano.com/images/home_portrait3.jpg

Universal Health Care. Tom authored and passed law to make San Francisco the first city in American to provide universal health care access.

Great Schools. Sponsored and helped pass “Great Schools” Charter Amendment adding $300 million to SF public schools.

Living Wage. Won battle to dramatically increase salaries for lowest-paid city employees and contract workers.

Mission Housing. Led the fight to protect Mission housing, nonprofits and artists from profit-hungry live-work developers.

Children’s Fund. Established the fund that provides millions annually to subsidize child care, health and social services for SF youth.

Police Reform. Authored measures to increase police accountability and strengthen the Office of Citizen’s Complaints.

Domestic Partners. Passed pioneering law to extend marriage privileges to domestic partners in the City.

District Elections. Sponsored & helped pass Charter Amendment to ensure neighborhood accountability and representation at City Hall.

Gang Prevention Spearheaded the establishment of outreach and gang-prevention programs for at-risk youth.



Pedestrian Safety. Pushed the city to install new stop signs, crosswalks, and speed bumps in the district to make it safe for pedestrians.

Bilingual Services. Won funding for Spanish-speaking social workers for district health clinic.

Mission Safety. Secured police officers devoted entirely to increasing public safety in the Mission and the lower 24th Street neighborhood.

Immigrant Housing. Created rental funding program to protect immigrants who lose federal subsidies for public housing.

New Citizens. Began program to assist immigrants who wish to become US citizens.

Nonprofit Assistance. Acquired funding to improve non-profit arts organizations and save them from eviction.

Affordable Housing. Created a fund to assist first-time home buyers and develop housing available to all the City’s residents.

Eviction Protection. Tripled the amount landlords must pay to relocate evicted tenants.

Political Reform. Wrote landmark campaign finance reform legislation to curb the influence of special interests and contractors on local elections.

Solar Energy. Led successful campaign to fund renewable energy installations and energy conservation improvements for both the public and the private sector.

MUNI & Transit. Secured over $780 million in new funding for SF public transportation.

Child Abuse. Established the Work Group to End Youth Exploitation and worked with DPH to create safe house for young victims of sexual exploitation.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Tom_Ammiano

2010
In 2010, Ammiano raised $293,960 in contributions. [16]
His four largest contributors were:
Donor Amount
California Teachers Association $15,600
Operating Engineers Local 3 $11,700
Service Employees Local 1021 $7,800
District Council Of Ironworkers $7,800
2008
Below are Ammiano's top 5 campaign contributors in the 2008 election:[17]
Contributor 2008 total
California Nurses Association $14,400
California State Council of Service Employees $14,400
California Teachers Association $14,400
Operating Engineers Local 3 $14,400
CA State Pipe Trades Council $10,800

jpigeon
12-26-2012, 8:47 PM
I heard they will grandfather all mags. You just have to date the mag with a marker...:fud:

Ieyasu
12-30-2012, 8:41 AM
If this post: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=10022841&postcount=27 and Feinstein's proposal doesn't help recruit folks to join gun rights groups then nothing will.

chris
12-30-2012, 1:18 PM
Constructive possession of disassembled high capacity magazines.

Epic FAIL.

fixed it for you.

http://www.tomammiano.com/

http://www.tomammiano.com/images/home_portrait3.jpg

Universal Health Care. Tom authored and passed law to make San Francisco the first city in American to provide universal health care access.

Great Schools. Sponsored and helped pass “Great Schools” Charter Amendment adding $300 million to SF public schools.

Living Wage. Won battle to dramatically increase salaries for lowest-paid city employees and contract workers.

Mission Housing. Led the fight to protect Mission housing, nonprofits and artists from profit-hungry live-work developers.

Children’s Fund. Established the fund that provides millions annually to subsidize child care, health and social services for SF youth.

Police Reform. Authored measures to increase police accountability and strengthen the Office of Citizen’s Complaints.

Domestic Partners. Passed pioneering law to extend marriage privileges to domestic partners in the City.

District Elections. Sponsored & helped pass Charter Amendment to ensure neighborhood accountability and representation at City Hall.

Gang Prevention Spearheaded the establishment of outreach and gang-prevention programs for at-risk youth.



Pedestrian Safety. Pushed the city to install new stop signs, crosswalks, and speed bumps in the district to make it safe for pedestrians.

Bilingual Services. Won funding for Spanish-speaking social workers for district health clinic.

Mission Safety. Secured police officers devoted entirely to increasing public safety in the Mission and the lower 24th Street neighborhood.

Immigrant Housing. Created rental funding program to protect immigrants who lose federal subsidies for public housing.

New Citizens. Began program to assist immigrants who wish to become US citizens.

Nonprofit Assistance. Acquired funding to improve non-profit arts organizations and save them from eviction.

Affordable Housing. Created a fund to assist first-time home buyers and develop housing available to all the City’s residents.

Eviction Protection. Tripled the amount landlords must pay to relocate evicted tenants.

Political Reform. Wrote landmark campaign finance reform legislation to curb the influence of special interests and contractors on local elections.

Solar Energy. Led successful campaign to fund renewable energy installations and energy conservation improvements for both the public and the private sector.

MUNI & Transit. Secured over $780 million in new funding for SF public transportation.

Child Abuse. Established the Work Group to End Youth Exploitation and worked with DPH to create safe house for young victims of sexual exploitation.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Tom_Ammiano

2010
In 2010, Ammiano raised $293,960 in contributions. [16]
His four largest contributors were:
Donor Amount
California Teachers Association $15,600
Operating Engineers Local 3 $11,700
Service Employees Local 1021 $7,800
District Council Of Ironworkers $7,800
2008
Below are Ammiano's top 5 campaign contributors in the 2008 election:[17]
Contributor 2008 total
California Nurses Association $14,400
California State Council of Service Employees $14,400
California Teachers Association $14,400
Operating Engineers Local 3 $14,400
CA State Pipe Trades Council $10,800

bought and paid for by public employee unions

frankm
12-30-2012, 7:01 PM
Don't worry guys. My Cornucopia will give us a way around this.

ANGLICO
01-04-2013, 1:40 PM
The Berkeley Daily Planet
Friday January 04, 2013 - 1000 AM

Editor's note: As this issue is published, we're delighted to learn that on Monday a new bill for the California legislature which does exactly what we've asked in today's editorial will be introduced, as described in the following press release:

OAKLAND, CA – To curb gun violence, mass shootings and the stockpiling of ammunition, State Assemblymember Nancy Skinner (D-Berkeley) and supporters will unveil legislation, AB 48, to establish oversight of California’s ammunition marketplace.

“When will deadly ammunition be viewed as a risk to public safety?” Skinner said. “If common cold medicines, alcohol and tobacco are regulated for their risk to public health and safety, why isn’t ammunition? Assembly Bill 48 will place boundaries on the bullets that have ravaged our communities.”

Assemblymember Skinner and supporters will announce legislation, AB 48, to regulate and tighten ammunition sales in California and ban high-capacity magazines.

This bill will:

•Regulate all ammunition sales,
•Require ammunition purchasers to show identification,
•Require ammunition sellers to be licensed dealers,
•Require ammunition sellers to report sales to the Department of Justice,
•Ban kits to convert ammunition clips into high-capacity magazines.

Read the rest: http://berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2013-01-03/article/40642?headline=Assembly-Bill-to-Regulate-Ammunition-to-Be-Introduced-on-Monday--

Dantedamean
01-04-2013, 1:43 PM
Is this the same as the De Leon one?

epilepticninja
01-04-2013, 1:44 PM
So much I want to say about this particular issue.

darksands
01-04-2013, 1:45 PM
Deadly ammunition as supposed to non deadly ammunition? And comparing bullets to cold medicine? Wow. Retards up there in Berkley.

compulsivegunbuyer
01-04-2013, 1:48 PM
Well, if it passes, it will weed out all the hoarders, paranoid delusionists, and nut cases, and I might actualy be able to go into the store and buy a friggin box of ammo. **** it, I'm gonna support the damn thing.

Sakiri
01-04-2013, 1:48 PM
So you can only buy ammo from actual gun shops, not like WalMart or KMart, and we're going to make the state even MORE broke by requiring a crap ton of paperwork to be processed on top of what we already have, backing the DoJ up more?

What are these guys smoking? Can I have some? And I foresee a LOT of people going out of state to buy ammo.

Sakiri
01-04-2013, 1:50 PM
Well, if it passes, it will weed out all the hoarders, paranoid delusionists, and nut cases, and I might actualy be able to go into the store and buy a friggin box of ammo. **** it, I'm gonna support the damn thing.

Actually, no, if it does anything it'll jack up the prices because you'd need to be an FFL to sell it, and effectively cut out places like Wally World.

Fellblade
01-04-2013, 1:51 PM
Wait. I won't be able to covert my M1's en bloc clips into deadly assault magazines if this passes?

nothinghere2c
01-04-2013, 1:52 PM
Well, if it passes, it will weed out all the hoarders, paranoid delusionists, and nut cases, and I might actualy be able to go into the store and buy a friggin box of ammo. **** it, I'm gonna support the damn thing.

http://cdn.overclock.net/5/5a/5afd94eb_Not_sure_if_serious.jpeg

compulsivegunbuyer
01-04-2013, 1:52 PM
Actually, no, if it does anything it'll jack up the prices because you'd need to be an FFL to sell it, and effectively cut out places like Wally World.

To late, 1000 rounds of 223 is already $1000.

Decoligny
01-04-2013, 1:55 PM
The Vegas and Phoenix ammuntion markets are in for an infusion of wealth at the expense of the California economy.

I for one will be making my purchases out of state and bringing my ammo back with me every chance I get if this passes.

ANGLICO
01-04-2013, 1:59 PM
The Vegas and Phoenix ammuntion markets are in for an infusion of wealth at the expense of the California economy.

I for one will be making my purchases out of state and bringing my ammo back with me every chance I get if this passes.

CA will change the names of the Ag Check Points to Ag and Ammo Check Points!

No doubt they will force OR, NV and AZ to restrict sales of Ammo to people with CA IDs. Or add rules against the importation of AMMO.

frankm
01-04-2013, 2:03 PM
This bill will:
•Require ammunition purchasers to show identification,
•Require ammunition sellers to be licensed dealers,
[/url]


LOL! You funny!

the86d
01-04-2013, 2:04 PM
MOTHER FSCK, AGAIN!?!?!?

scrubb
01-04-2013, 2:15 PM
Is this the same as the De Leon one?

Similar, but De Leon wants us all to buy a $50 dollar ammo card just for the priviledge of buying ammo and get fingerprinted for each purchase.

nothinghere2c
01-04-2013, 2:17 PM
let them try :-)

stand fast.

TacoJockey
01-04-2013, 2:18 PM
There's already an official thread on this

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=9977850#post9977850

ARfan23
01-04-2013, 2:20 PM
Maybe they'll outlaw buttocks too, since you can technically beat someone to death with one--LMAO.

kaligaran
01-04-2013, 2:21 PM
CA will change the names of the Ag Check Points to Ag and Ammo Check Points!

No doubt they will force OR, NV and AZ to restrict sales of Ammo to people with CA IDs. Or add rules against the importation of AMMO.

They will force those states to make laws? That's not how it works.

CA could ban the importation of ammo. Which would be interesting to see them try to enforce it (how would they know where you bought it?).

chknlyps2
01-04-2013, 2:22 PM
CA will change the .................................................. .............!

No doubt they will.............................................. .................................................. .....................

Please do not give them any ideas on how to re-write this bill :facepalm:

glock21fan
01-04-2013, 2:22 PM
Really? To quote Ted. America is imploding

ARfan23
01-04-2013, 2:24 PM
They will force those states to make laws? That's not how it works.

CA could ban the importation of ammo. Which would be interesting to see them try to enforce it (how would they know where you bought it?).


... Ever look at the bottom of a pack of cigarettes? ...

Falstaff
01-04-2013, 2:26 PM
http://cdn.overclock.net/5/5a/5afd94eb_Not_sure_if_serious.jpeg

Well, if it passes, it will weed out all the hoarders, paranoid delusionists, and nut cases, and I might actualy be able to go into the store and buy a friggin box of ammo. **** it, I'm gonna support the damn thing.

This from a guy who's handle is "Compulsivegunbuyer"??? Ummm ok can I get ta WTF?
So your theory is that it's ok to buy guns compulsively but not the ammo?
Don't be such a crybaby, get up early and go to walnart before the turds wake up (anytime before noon!) and you'll get some too! I got 6 boxes of federal 100 rd .223 for 34.97 each last week. Right place right time so far Walmart ain't gouging! 36 cents a round! I may try to flip them in the calguns marketplace for double that!!

Moonshine
01-04-2013, 2:28 PM
Guys please stop giving them ideas... Really please. On a side note the ammo cards are shall issue so while its an inconvenience it's not a show stopper. I'm way more concerned about SB-47!

triggatronic
01-04-2013, 2:28 PM
•Require ammunition purchasers to show identification,
•Require ammunition sellers to be licensed dealers,

This part is a joke right?



Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X

justjeff
01-04-2013, 2:32 PM
This from a guy who's handle is "Compulsivegunbuyer"??? Ummm ok can I get ta WTF?
So your theory is that it's ok to buy guns compulsively but not the ammo?
Don't be such a crybaby, get up early and go to walnart before the turds wake up (anytime before noon!) and you'll get some too! I got 6 boxes of federal 100 rd .223 for 34.97 each last week. Right place right time so far Walmart ain't gouging! 36 cents a round! I may try to flip them in the calguns marketplace for double that!!

Ditto
I got WWB 45 32$x100rnd I just bought what they before they could stick the case. Some guy bought all the 9mm gotta be quick and a little lucky.

Moonshine
01-04-2013, 2:34 PM
Umm guys I'm gonna say this one more time: I saw AT LEAST one or two items in this thread that they would love to incorporate into the bill. Please refrain from any further discussion that would help them!

IVC
01-04-2013, 2:35 PM
While AB 962 got injunction based on being vague, the real "meat" behind the challenge to AB 962 was about a state trying to regulate interstate commerce. Should this bill pass, there is a ready lawsuit. This type of challenge has already been successfully applied in other states that tried the same trick with mail order tobacco.

The more these silly bills get introduced, the sooner we'll have some meaningful court precedents on our side which will forever close future attempts of this kind. This works for us.

randomBytes
01-04-2013, 2:39 PM
I'll just stick to the non-deadly ammo then

Where do they sell that?

Moonshine
01-04-2013, 2:41 PM
So basically the same ruling on AB 962 would therefore apply to this bill, but the authors and organizations behind it still ultimately win for "trying".

Johnny Lightning
01-04-2013, 2:41 PM
A very wise non emotional response from IVC. Thanks!.

vintagearms
01-04-2013, 2:43 PM
Umm guys I'm gonna say this one more time: I saw AT LEAST one or two items in this thread that they would love to incorporate into the bill. Please refrain from any further discussion that would help them!

THIS.

Guys, Please edit your posts. Lets NOT include helpful info for the antis.

morfeeis
01-04-2013, 2:47 PM
These scum bags are coming out of the woodworks. This place is going to be hell next year.

mosinnagantm9130
01-04-2013, 2:50 PM
While AB 962 got injunction based on being vague, the real "meat" behind the challenge to AB 962 was about a state trying to regulate interstate commerce. Should this bill pass, there is a ready lawsuit. This type of challenge has already been successfully applied in other states that tried the same trick with mail order tobacco.

The more these silly bills get introduced, the sooner we'll have some meaningful court precedents on our side which will forever close future attempts of this kind. This works for us.

This^^

warbird
01-04-2013, 2:53 PM
This bill can be especially dangerous because it does not limit the ability of the state to restrict sales or what it can do to inhibit sales under this law. It can raise fees to such heights that sellers cannot afford to sell in the state, criteria can be so strict no one qualifies, etc. Generalized laws can be the worst of all because it gives the anti-gun people wide latitude in what they can do because they are not confined in how they accomplish what they truly want under the law. The courts are going to look at the limit lines in the law and if there are none then the courts are not likely to over turn the law. if you can't beat a law make sure as many of restrictions as possible are included on government agencies until you can appeal it.

winnre
01-04-2013, 2:54 PM
How do you convert a clip into a magazine?

VAReact
01-04-2013, 2:55 PM
THIS.

Guys, Please edit your posts. Lets NOT include helpful info for the antis.

I find myself wanting to comment, and then see posts like the two above. It's hard for me to not get excited/worked up and try to brainstorm for answers -And then post the results. Thank you for a reminder to keep my pie hole shut. I don't want to see us improve these rights-snatching bills of effluent written by these civil-rights deniers and traitors to our Constitution.

Moonshine
01-04-2013, 3:00 PM
In Sacramento we already have to show ID, get finger printed, and be logged for ammo purchases. Now Ill have a Purdy ID card too wheeee!

Dantedamean
01-04-2013, 3:04 PM
In Sacramento we already have to show ID, get finger printed, and be logged for ammo purchases. Now Ill have a Purdy ID card too wheeee!

I have a feeling what you already live with will just become state law, short of a governor veto.

Paul_R
01-04-2013, 3:04 PM
No doubt they will force OR, NV and AZ to restrict sales of Ammo to people with CA IDs.

OR, NV, and AZ don't require ID to buy ammo and are as disgusted by CA laws as we are. ;)

dustoff31
01-04-2013, 3:04 PM
How do you convert a clip into a magazine?

You use the shoulder thing that goes up.

LBDamned
01-04-2013, 3:12 PM
You use the shoulder thing that goes up.

only if it's being administered with the barrel shroud.

redhead
01-04-2013, 3:14 PM
This bill was likely constructed by a staff of advisors tasked to read this forum.

Illustrating all the shortcomings that are in this legislation as it's currently written gives them a roadmap to revise it. Should it pass, it will get jammed up in court by CGF and other entities. Let's not fight the grabbers' battle for them. Run silent, run deep, folks.

Thank you. Shhhhh!

hakenlag
01-04-2013, 3:15 PM
How do you convert a clip into a magazine?

Mig welder.

VAReact
01-04-2013, 3:15 PM
In Sacramento we already have to show ID, get finger printed, and be logged for ammo purchases. Now Ill have a Purdy ID card too wheeee!

City of Los Angeles as well.

kaligaran
01-04-2013, 3:18 PM
... Ever look at the bottom of a pack of cigarettes? ...

Perhaps you should look that up and see why.
It's actually not relevant to ammunition sales at all.

Moonshine
01-04-2013, 3:20 PM
Could a moderator PLEASE lock this thread before any more loose lips sink the dang ship!

JDay
01-04-2013, 3:25 PM
They will force those states to make laws? That's not how it works.

CA could ban the importation of ammo. Which would be interesting to see them try to enforce it (how would they know where you bought it?).

That would be in violation of the interstate commerce clause.

TeddyBallgame
01-04-2013, 3:28 PM
Assembly Bill 48 will place boundaries on the bullets that have ravaged our communitiesthey'll limit the distance a bullet can travel? I bet they bring in some Hollywood screenwriters, just to script some of these lines...so serious

Root66
01-04-2013, 3:29 PM
Skinner said. “If common cold medicines, alcohol and tobacco are regulated for their risk to public health and safety, why isn’t ammunition?

I wonder why it never dawns on these "intelligent" people that the right to have medicines, booze and tobacco aren't addressed in the Bill of Rights.

arslin
01-04-2013, 3:30 PM
"Ban kits to convert ammunition clips into high-capacity magazines."

There are kits to convert Clips into "high-cap" Magazines?

I'm guessing this is the repair kits... I wish people would understand the subject they try to regulate.

JDay
01-04-2013, 3:36 PM
Guys please stop giving them ideas... Really please. On a side note the ammo cards are shall issue so while its an inconvenience it's not a show stopper. I'm way more concerned about SB-47!

Do you really think they don't have a team of lawyers looking at the things they can try to push through? They've put a lot of thought into what they can get away with.

IVC
01-04-2013, 3:39 PM
So basically the same ruling on AB 962 would therefore apply to this bill, but the authors and organizations behind it still ultimately win for "trying".

Not quite. AB 962 tried to restrict handgun ammunition sales and it is under the preliminary injunction due to being "unconstitutionally vague" (the state is appealing, though). The "vagueness" argument was just the first and lowest hanging fruit, but there was a full size steamroller of a case behind it. Should this pass, the steamroller will be used...

cpatbay
01-04-2013, 3:42 PM
To late, 1000 rounds of 223 is already $1000.

It will be $1500 soon .... Unfortunately ...

nothinghere2c
01-04-2013, 3:45 PM
I sure hope they don't ban the 3D printing of ammo using readily downloadable CAD documents in the bill

Vlad 11
01-04-2013, 3:51 PM
When, not if, this passes, it will be one more step toward their goal of establishing ammuntion laws modeled after those of the Mexican government.


Article 51

A licensed firearm owner in Mexico is permitted to possess only 500 cartridges in .22 caliber, 1,000 cartridges for shotguns and 200 cartridges for other arms

This law has worked well to keep ammunition out of the hands of cartels and other outlaws. :rolleyes:

Skidmark
01-04-2013, 4:07 PM
So you can only buy ammo from actual gun shops, not like WalMart or KMart, and we're going to make the state even MORE broke by requiring a crap ton of paperwork to be processed on top of what we already have, backing the DoJ up more?

What are these guys smoking? Can I have some? And I foresee a LOT of people going out of state to buy ammo.

You can bet anyone who doesn't want their name in an ammunition registry would simply buy up in Nevada or Oregon.

This daft legislation is so stupid it makes my head hurt.

arslin
01-04-2013, 4:12 PM
In other completely unrelated news... reloading supplies are becoming hard to find.

Lone_Gunman
01-04-2013, 4:14 PM
They can :censored: off and die. As long as we're Americans we have the right of free travel. I will go where I want, and buy what I want with cash money. Hell, there are other ways to get around it too, and they're not that hard to figure out. :censored:ing idiots.

kaligaran
01-04-2013, 4:17 PM
That would be in violation of the interstate commerce clause.

That's a very good and interesting point you bring up. That's on a federal level I thought (not something I've very knowledgeable on to be honest).

It's already done for plenty of other things like standard capacity magazines for example. Does that only apply to things that can be purchased within a state already (such as an outright ammo ban would be required to regulate ammo import by citizens)?

bruss01
01-04-2013, 4:19 PM
I read that in my head in the shrill voice of the "Save the Clock Tower" lady in Back to the Future.

I don't think the state has money to pay for all that licensing and administration. Not that it ever stopped them in the past...

LibertyDeath
01-04-2013, 4:25 PM
Well, I will just use an nondescript work around that I know will work because I am

JSolie
01-04-2013, 4:35 PM
Just a gentle reminder, loose lips sink ships.

CBruce
01-04-2013, 4:36 PM
The Berkeley Daily Planet
Friday January 04, 2013 - 1000 AM

Editor's note: As this issue is published, we're delighted to learn that on Monday a new bill for the California legislature which does exactly what we've asked in today's editorial will be introduced, as described in the following press release:

OAKLAND, CA – To curb gun violence, mass shootings and the stockpiling of ammunition, State Assemblymember Nancy Skinner (D-Berkeley) and supporters will unveil legislation, AB 48, to establish oversight of California’s ammunition marketplace.

“When will deadly ammunition be viewed as a risk to public safety?” Skinner said. “If common cold medicines, alcohol and tobacco are regulated for their risk to public health and safety, why isn’t ammunition? Assembly Bill 48 will place boundaries on the bullets that have ravaged our communities.”

Assemblymember Skinner and supporters will announce legislation, AB 48, to regulate and tighten ammunition sales in California and ban high-capacity magazines.

This bill will:

•Regulate all ammunition sales,
•Require ammunition purchasers to show identification,
•Require ammunition sellers to be licensed dealers,
•Require ammunition sellers to report sales to the Department of Justice,
•Ban kits to convert ammunition clips into high-capacity magazines.

Read the rest: http://berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2013-01-03/article/40642?headline=Assembly-Bill-to-Regulate-Ammunition-to-Be-Introduced-on-Monday--

Dunno who this author is, but they're a gibbering, irrationally clueless hoplophobe.

Moonshine
01-04-2013, 4:37 PM
Btw I read the text of the bill and I'm digging the vague "fill in the blank" for how many rounds sends an alarm to police if you buy it in less than 5 days. 1000? 100? 10? Who knows wheeee!

3RDGEARGRNDRR
01-04-2013, 4:42 PM
This was introduced prev pre dec 15 chaos. It actually has some credibility regarding skirting the constitution as it does NOT. Ban firearms but magazines and ammo that is not apparently written directly in the constitution. However according to the ninth amendment ammo and mags should be considered as items not specifically addressed in the bill of rights.

stilly
01-04-2013, 4:44 PM
Maybe they'll outlaw buttocks too, since you can technically beat someone to death with one--LMAO.

By sitting on them?

Merkava_4
01-04-2013, 4:51 PM
I'll just stick to the non-deadly ammo then

Where do they sell that?


Right next to the alcohol free beer.

kaligaran
01-04-2013, 4:53 PM
This was introduced prev pre dec 15 chaos. It actually has some credibility regarding skirting the constitution as it does NOT. Ban firearms but magazines and ammo that is not apparently written directly in the constitution. However according to the ninth amendment ammo and mags should be considered as items not specifically addressed in the bill of rights.

Wouldn't that be like trying to ban all barrels that are not at least 50" long but saying you're not banning firearms so you're just thinking of the children while being pro 2A?

(if anyone says something about this giving 'them' ideas I'm going to bash my face on the desk!)

tcrpe
01-04-2013, 4:59 PM
This is giving them ideas.

LoneYote
01-04-2013, 5:10 PM
'them' ideas

Face-Desk make it happen.... Pics plz!

kaligaran
01-04-2013, 5:48 PM
Face-Desk make it happen.... Pics plz!

http://www.millsworks.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/writing_process.gif

Wherryj
01-04-2013, 5:58 PM
(b)*Subdivision (a) does not apply to the possession of a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine or an oversize magazine body that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds by a person who lawfully possessed the magazine prior to January 1, 2014

..................

The issue is that even if this grandfathers magazines, just how are CA owners supposed to get 10 round magazines for their rifles? There is a very short supply on those, THUS the reason for the permanently blocked 20s or 30s. If you think that prices are high now, wait until you aren't able to use ANY of those.

Wherryj
01-04-2013, 6:03 PM
Wouldn't that be like trying to ban all barrels that are not at least 50" long but saying you're not banning firearms so you're just thinking of the children while being pro 2A?

(if anyone says something about this giving 'them' ideas I'm going to bash my face on the desk!)

Yes, but then think about how easy it will be to shoot kids on a playground. A 50 inch barrel makes a shot at 50 inches a certainty. If they barrel is 50 feet long, you can guarantee a shot at 50 FEET!

Sakiri
01-04-2013, 6:14 PM
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to the possession of a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine or an oversize magazine body that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds by a person who lawfully possessed the magazine prior to January 1, 2014.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this bill now makes manufacture,import and sale a misdemnor. As before it was a felony. It looks like if you had your rebulid kit and 10/30 before 1-1-2014 then it gets grandfathered.

Buying ammo after the law takes effect will be a pain in the arse because it looks like you won't be able to buy online anymore. The law basically says it has to be a ftf transaction at a reseller. This law is defacto ammo registration. Say if you only had long guns and bought ammo for such now the state knows you have a long gun.

This bill would require anyone in the state, prior to selling, transferring, or otherwise furnishing ammunition to an individual or business entity in this state or any other state to require proper identification, as prescribed, to be an authorized firearms dealer, and to report the sales to the Department of Justice. An individual who fails to make the required report or who knowingly makes a report with false or fictitious information would be guilty of a misdemeanor, as specified. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.

They want to know we have this stuff so that when the economy totally collapses and we're begging for military to deal with the rioters, they can come take all of our crap right before they turn this into Nazi Germany.

CBruce
01-04-2013, 6:20 PM
AB 48 - http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140AB48

(The text is interesting, but the whole set of info is even MORE interesting.)

See also the Beginner's guide (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=161873) to reading bills and
a short post on How a Bill Becomes Law (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=591209)


http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/13-14/bill/asm/ab_0001-0050/ab_48_bill_20121220_introduced.pdf

Good. California is in desperate need of a new black market to supply criminals and gangs with incredibly smugglable magazines and ammunition. They can just throw them in the crate next to the pot and fireworks.

Ford8N
01-04-2013, 6:20 PM
This bill was likely constructed by a staff of advisors tasked to read this forum.

Illustrating all the shortcomings that are in this legislation as it's currently written gives them a roadmap to revise it. Should it pass, it will get jammed up in court by CGF and other entities. Let's not fight the grabbers' battle for them. Run silent, run deep, folks.

No doubt some are members here and they bait discussion on how to work around a bill. And sadly there are enough weak minds here that will take the bait.

monk
01-04-2013, 6:23 PM
Good thing they didn't ban the magazines made from turtle shells, at least we can get those in high caps.

Grifter206
01-04-2013, 6:34 PM
The government DOES NOT have the right to know what I buy. I pay taxes for EVERYTHING and yes even my legal bullets! Now they want me to jump through more hoops and get a FREAKIN card to purchase bullets so they can track me? Bite my shiny metal ***! This is America, not some ****ing communist country that spies and tells you what you should and not be doing.

Sakiri
01-04-2013, 7:41 PM
The government DOES NOT have the right to know what I buy. I pay taxes for EVERYTHING and yes even my legal bullets! Now they want me to jump through more hoops and get a FREAKIN card to purchase bullets so they can track me? Bite my shiny metal ***! This is America, not some ****ing communist country that spies and tells you what you should and not be doing.

Except that when they're done with it, it will be.

Moonshine
01-04-2013, 8:04 PM
In case anyone hasn't figured it out by now there is a 100,000% this law will be passed, this puppy is going to be fought in the courts we all know rebuilds have long been a thorn in the side of Cali gun control.

wjc
01-04-2013, 8:10 PM
Has this thing been brought before the Assembly yet?

I'd like the opportunity to chew the face off my representative.

john67elco
01-04-2013, 9:28 PM
Bill is easily toast. I know of at least one reason why it could fail hard. If anyone from Skinner/Ammiano's office wants to send me a couple of bcgs, uppers, pmags (rebuilt of course I dont want you to go to the pokie), and some 223 ill hook you up.

Jaxpire
01-04-2013, 9:46 PM
only if it's being administered with the barrel shroud.

As long as it's not used with heat seeking ammo.

zvardan
01-04-2013, 10:59 PM
I see all these bills as a potentially good thing. I said potentially. :)

It's at the point where these ding dongs are are adding blocks to a building rapidly...to the point where the building topples before their eyes because they built too high, too fast.

Vlad 11
01-05-2013, 12:53 AM
I see all these bills as a potentially good thing. I said potentially. :)

It's at the point where these ding dongs are are adding blocks to a building rapidly...to the point where the building topples before their eyes because they built too high, too fast.

Yes, we're playing chess

They're playing Jenga

thrillhouse700
01-05-2013, 9:21 AM
Im going to walmart to load up on NERF guns since I see them as being targeted next. Then I will ebay them for mass profit. Going to horde all of the whistle darts!!!

Bucc
01-05-2013, 10:33 AM
This bill was likely constructed by a staff of advisors tasked to read this forum.

Illustrating all the shortcomings that are in this legislation as it's currently written gives them a roadmap to revise it. Should it pass, it will get jammed up in court by CGF and other entities. Let's not fight the grabbers' battle for them. Run silent, run deep, folks.
^^^^^^
That. I stopped reading after the first page but in case anyone didn't repeat it or get it the first several times...... shut up and let the people who handle this stuff handle it.

JoshuaS
01-05-2013, 11:20 AM
One consideration is that if I have a 10/30 mag, it still holds ten rounds only, but takes more room. I can carry less. To ban mags that appear to hold more, but in fact hold 10, would serve no rational basis, and in the very unlikely situation of a mass shooting with someone using 10/30 mags or the like, it would mean he could carry less ammo, than smaller 10 rounders

Gunwriter
01-05-2013, 11:38 AM
This ^^^^

Your wish is granted...All you have to do is move to AZ.

vincewarde
01-05-2013, 3:27 PM
The Heller 5 is going to get tired of deciding case after case where anti-gun rights politicians have passed clearly unconstitutional laws and just flat out define the extent and limits of the 2nd Amendment right. I just hope they live long enough to do that, because anyone Obama appoints flat out will not care what the constitution says.....

IXMM
01-05-2013, 3:32 PM
It will be $1500 soon .... Unfortunately ...

if that's the case, time to dust off the BB guns.

kcbrown
01-05-2013, 6:12 PM
The Heller 5 is going to get tired of deciding case after case where anti-gun rights politicians have passed clearly unconstitutional laws and just flat out define the extent and limits of the 2nd Amendment right. I just hope they live long enough to do that, because anyone Obama appoints flat out will not care what the constitution says.....

One of the Heller 5 will exit stage left before they get tired of deciding these cases.

And regardless, there is nothing they can do to prevent these cases from repeatedly coming their way. They have no real power over the lower courts except the U.S. Marshals, and that is a power they absolutely will not exercise here.

Anti-self-defense lower courts will use the excuse that the "fact patterns" of the cases before them differ from those the Supreme Court ruled on previously, and therefore there is "some" "justification" for ruling in the way the Supreme Court made plain they shouldn't. When they do rule in our favor, it will be with a "poison pill" that renders the entire decision unpalatable (e.g., the Heller III ruling that would have turned strict scrutiny into rational basis).


Because it's now only a matter of time before we lose one of the Heller 5 and said loss is replaced with an anti-rights Sotomayor admirer, it's guaranteed that lower courts which defy the Supreme Court now will not only not pay the price for it, but will be rewarded later when the balance on the Supreme Court shifts away from the Constitution.


No, this is a fight we must fight no matter what, but it is a fight we will now lose for sure in the end, thanks to Obama's reelection.

Icypu
01-05-2013, 6:35 PM
People should be kind and polite and quiet and let the lawyers fight it when it is over. Reasoning here will just make the bill more an annoyance.

crazy
01-06-2013, 9:34 PM
My post deleted. Is that better?

Grumpyoldretiredcop
01-06-2013, 11:57 PM
While AB 962 got injunction based on being vague, the real "meat" behind the challenge to AB 962 was about a state trying to regulate interstate commerce. Should this bill pass, there is a ready lawsuit. This type of challenge has already been successfully applied in other states that tried the same trick with mail order tobacco.

The more these silly bills get introduced, the sooner we'll have some meaningful court precedents on our side which will forever close future attempts of this kind. This works for us.

For those coming late into this thread and needing to display their analysis of it's various shortcomings, the above is good and well-reasoned advice.

The other piece of good advice is please resist the urge to post your analysis and thereby possibly strengthen this piece of legislative drivel into a real threat!

I second the motion made earlier to close this thread and wish that any others like it would be closed as well. We DON'T need to help the enemy with information!

Wrangler John
01-07-2013, 5:22 AM
Just remember that anything posted on a forum is immediately archived in various search engines, deletion doesn't necessarily remove it from the Internet. Do not post anything that shouldn't be read.

The other thing is that sometimes we don't expand our vision beyond the immediate issue. Is the problem ammunition and magazine legislation, or is it something larger? What we are facing is a much larger complex set of factors. By that I refer to the examples of disintegration of Constitutional authority and a decline in economic responsibility among many more. This has been a long gradual process brought about by liberal and socialist undermining of every facet of our government. So what's the answer?

What I see is the need to go beyond Second Amendment issues, gun control, so called assault weapons, etc., to include other background issues that support the opposition. For example, if you examine the supporters of those legislators proposing these measures, you will find major contributors include labor unions. Thus, mounting a permanent campaign for establishing right-to-work laws will eventually bear fruit and divert union funds to fight against the movement. As more states join the right-to-work column, the unions suffer depletion of their strength. A movement to first reform and then prohibit public employee unions would be a direct attack on the root of the problem and further divert the forces of oppression. The war need not be won immediately, nor even the battles, the gain comes in the fight and dissemination of information arguing facts about cost, fairness, and organized criminal aspects of unions. Public attitudes change as the constant drum-roll of factual argument is heard.

Not to suggest that firearms groups must lead this fight, but that firearms civil rights supporters look to those existing organizations already engaged with those issues. If we are to reform government in any meaningful way, we must adopt the same methods as the leftists used to erode the situation to its current condition. The time is ripe, and will be made easier as paychecks diminish, the economy continues to decline, and the cost of a loaf of bread rises over five dollars (it has already in some markets). Something to think about.

moisesangulo
01-07-2013, 6:20 PM
Right now, can I still buy ammo online and have it shipped legally to me in California (assuming my county allows it)?

Rackatak
01-07-2013, 6:26 PM
Right now, can I still buy ammo online and have it shipped legally to me in California (assuming my county allows it)?

No. Must buy at WalMart

Skidmark
01-07-2013, 6:44 PM
No. Must buy at WalMart

That's incorrect. Please don't spread misinformation here.

G-Man WC
01-07-2013, 6:56 PM
http://nancyskinnerforassembly.com/

http://nancyskinnerforassembly.com/wp-content/themes/thesis_16/custom/images/banner-2012.png

Wow, Talk about separated at birth :puke:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f134/gkolokousis/wizardofzwitchmelt2_zpsb0dbb0e7.jpg

moisesangulo
01-07-2013, 6:56 PM
I just don't want to order it and then have the bill pass (while it's on its way) and have to return it, not get a refund, and get into trouble.

Thanks.

Aces and 8s
01-07-2013, 7:08 PM
Stay silent. Stay vigilant. They can't write bull**** and pass bull**** like this if we don't help them fix their flawed framework.

wjc
01-07-2013, 7:21 PM
Anyone have any talking points I can use when writing my reps?

I'm kind of itching to get on this...

Feel free to pm me if opsec is a concern.

Vlad 11
01-07-2013, 7:23 PM
Wow, Talk about separated at birth :puke:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f134/gkolokousis/wizardofzwitchmelt2_zpsb0dbb0e7.jpg

I was thinking more like

http://nancyskinnerforassembly.com/wp-content/themes/thesis_16/custom/images/banner-2012.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-L3uFKMVjA-s/UPAxauKXPJI/AAAAAAAASU4/u70BFwIUVlk/s1600/The-Wizard-of-Oz-the-wizard-of-oz-26247799-499-328.gif

curtisfong
01-07-2013, 7:44 PM
Just a reminder; with a dem supermajority, pretty much all state anti-gun measures will pass without a fight. This means you should NOT comment on them until they are ready to be voted on. Any comments you make can (and will) be used to make the laws either more onerous, or harder to defeat in a lawsuit (or both).

Seagunner
01-08-2013, 3:31 AM
Mondays bill unveiling says...AB 48 would establish procedures and restrictions on the sale of ammunition comparable to those that currently cover gun sales. The legislation bans kits that convert guns into illegal assault weapons, requires ammunition sellers to be licensed and to report ammunition sales to the Department of Justice, and additionally requires large ammo purchases made over a short time period to be reported to local law enforcement.

Looks like they're going after the bullet button again also.

luckystrike
01-08-2013, 3:53 AM
CA will change the names of the Ag Check Points to Ag and Ammo Check Points!

No doubt they will force OR, NV and AZ to restrict sales of Ammo to people with CA IDs. Or add rules against the importation of AMMO.

California cannot force bordering states to do anything. "can you pretty please enforce our law in your state" ain't gonna happen.

Jason_2111
01-08-2013, 7:04 AM
Mods, please lock this thread. Nothing good can come of analyzing this bill for the opposition... we know they have staffers reading calguns.

Skidmark
01-08-2013, 8:21 AM
AB 48 is deeply flawed, and should be straightforward to nullify in court.

I will step up my contributions to CalGuns Foundation.

tcrpe
01-08-2013, 8:23 AM
Let's try another approach . . . .

The massacre in Newton, Conn., and other mass shootings have prompted for a call to curb gun violence.

California assembly member Nancy Skinner answered that call with a proposal to restrict ammunition sales in the state.

“2,800 people in California were killed last year by gunfire," Skinner said. "It is easier to buy bullets than cough medicine or alcohol. It should not be that easy. We need to have much more scrutiny when it comes to the purchase of guns."

”Right now you can buy bullets in any store and the sale is not recorded”, James said. "Gun violence will continue unless we control the sale of bullets."

The so-called "bullet bill" would also ban kits to convert ammunition clips into high-capacity magazines. At the same time, this debate goes on some are questioning why a new gun shop is now open for business In Los Gatos.



More: http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Shooting-Prompt-New-Gun-Bill-185968592.html?dr

It appears that this forum is a great resource for these Ruling Class Princes.

pMcW
01-08-2013, 8:40 AM
http://www.californiareport.org/archive/R201301080850/a

REH
01-08-2013, 8:42 AM
Banning something from out of state is against free trade and commerce laws, no?

Skidmark
01-08-2013, 9:02 AM
http://www.californiareport.org/archive/R201301080850/a

Post up your comments, folks. It's important to maintain a steady voice of calm opposition to this measure.

X-NewYawker
01-08-2013, 9:21 AM
if that's the case, time to dust off the BB guns.

Which in the City of LA are already ILLEGAL to shoot in your own backyard!

Dantedamean
01-08-2013, 9:31 AM
Which in the City of LA are already ILLEGAL to shoot in your own backyard!

In most cities that's illegal, Covina, West Covina, San Dimas, and glendora. The only one I've checked that it isn't illegal is in walnut.

1stLineGear
01-08-2013, 11:34 AM
The Berkeley Daily Planet
Friday January 04, 2013 - 1000 AM

Editor's note: As this issue is published, we're delighted to learn that on Monday a new bill for the California legislature which does exactly what we've asked in today's editorial will be introduced, as described in the following press release:

OAKLAND, CA – To curb gun violence, mass shootings and the stockpiling of ammunition, State Assemblymember Nancy Skinner (D-Berkeley) and supporters will unveil legislation, AB 48, to establish oversight of California’s ammunition marketplace.

“When will deadly ammunition be viewed as a risk to public safety?” Skinner said. “If common cold medicines, alcohol and tobacco are regulated for their risk to public health and safety, why isn’t ammunition? Assembly Bill 48 will place boundaries on the bullets that have ravaged our communities.”

Assemblymember Skinner and supporters will announce legislation, AB 48, to regulate and tighten ammunition sales in California and ban high-capacity magazines.

This bill will:

•Regulate all ammunition sales,
•Require ammunition purchasers to show identification,
•Require ammunition sellers to be licensed dealers,
•Require ammunition sellers to report sales to the Department of Justice,
•Ban kits to convert ammunition clips into high-capacity magazines.

Read the rest: http://berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2013-01-03/article/40642?headline=Assembly-Bill-to-Regulate-Ammunition-to-Be-Introduced-on-Monday--

How does one convert a clip into a magazine? LOL

Wiz-of-Awd
01-08-2013, 11:36 AM
How does one...

Silence is golden on this topic.

A.W.D

jmdove
01-08-2013, 11:42 AM
Well, if it passes, it will weed out all the hoarders, paranoid delusionists, and nut cases, and I might actualy be able to go into the store and buy a friggin box of ammo. **** it, I'm gonna support the damn thing.

It is a prelude to a COMPLETE ban---WAKE UP! THEY WILL NOT STOP
THERE. HISTORY HAS PROVEN THIS!:mad:

jmdove
01-08-2013, 11:47 AM
Guys please stop giving them ideas... Really please. On a side note the ammo cards are shall issue so while its an inconvenience it's not a show stopper. I'm way more concerned about SB-47!

It doesn't matter if they see what we are thinking. There ideas are
MOST DEFININTELY unconstitutional. Restricting ammo would actually
require repel of the 2nd Amendment. Don't you get it, these liberals REALLY are quite stupid in that they actually think these bans will fly. The won't
be anything more then temporary setbacks before the court rules them
as unconstitutional. But the aggravation of having to deal with it at all is unacceptable. There really will be a special place in Hell reserved
for all these liberals.

CaliforniaLiberal
01-08-2013, 1:42 PM
Right now, can I still buy ammo online and have it shipped legally to me in California (assuming my county allows it)?


Welcome to CalGuns Moises!

Yes, you can buy ammo to your hearts content, no restrictions except in a couple of cities/counties that have local ordinances.

Unfortunately many online retailers are very low on stock due to the Second Great Obama Gun and Ammo Buying Frenzy. There has been an unprecedented tidal wave of sales and orders from panicked gun owners across the nation who fear new State and Federal restrictions on gun and ammo purchases and possession.

Stay tuned for updates on new proposals in Congress and the CA Legislature. As has been said here already, new bills with rare exceptions take effect on the first day of the new year following passage.

toy4two
01-08-2013, 6:43 PM
if you don't like these new laws, let your assembly person know. If they get inundated with emails at least they will know why they were booted out of office on the next election!

http://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/

MOA1
01-08-2013, 8:08 PM
No.

chris
01-08-2013, 8:21 PM
How does one convert a clip into a magazine? LOL

dam good question. i bet some magical elf can do it.

GW
01-09-2013, 12:29 AM
Cease your speculating and donate to CalGuns Foundation
This fight will be prolonged and expensive
Do your share to help us win it!:patriot:

minuteman
01-09-2013, 11:03 AM
Well the story is public:
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/state&id=8945496

IPSICK
01-09-2013, 1:57 PM
Just a reminder; with a dem supermajority, pretty much all state anti-gun measures will pass without a fight. This means you should NOT comment on them until they are ready to be voted on. Any comments you make can (and will) be used to make the laws either more onerous, or harder to defeat in a lawsuit (or both).

So are we just planning on court challenges for this and other state bills? CGF seems to have been silent so far on action plans at least for this bill. Now that this bill has been proposed and introduced, anyone know what committee it might be in so I can direct calls and correspondence to the appropriate members?

I'm hoping for another well-executed strategy such as what happened with SB249.

PixelBender
01-09-2013, 2:13 PM
This bill was likely constructed by a staff of advisors tasked to read this forum.

Illustrating all the shortcomings that are in this legislation as it's currently written gives them a roadmap to revise it. Should it pass, it will get jammed up in court by CGF and other entities. Let's not fight the grabbers' battle for them. Run silent, run deep, folks.

RIGHT? I've said this before... Deconstructing bills and suggesting loopholes or even inadequacies and constitutionally bankrupt segments is doing nothing to help our cause. Providing them with a proofread stream of comments is in no way benefitting us.

I would write my senators but they're the bastards who are pushing the AWB.

PixelBender
01-09-2013, 2:17 PM
It is a prelude to a COMPLETE ban---WAKE UP! THEY WILL NOT STOP
THERE. HISTORY HAS PROVEN THIS!:mad:

Open Cary - Pistols: GONE
Open Cary - Long Guns: GONE
Detachable Magazines: GONE
Standard capacity: GONE
LTC: GONE (in the majority of metropolitan regions - places where we need them most)

At what point do we say enough is enough? I wonder where our money goes sometimes, and what of the NRA? The Bay Area keep cranking out more and more libtards to run this country. I'm not a Republican but honestly I would rather have my gun shops instead of weed shops.

Ford8N
01-09-2013, 4:54 PM
Open Cary - Pistols: GONE
Open Cary - Long Guns: GONE
Detachable Magazines: GONE
Standard capacity: GONE
LTC: GONE (in the majority of metropolitan regions - places where we need them most)

At what point do we say enough is enough? I wonder where our money goes sometimes, and what of the NRA? The Bay Area keep cranking out more and more libtards to run this country. I'm not a Republican but honestly I would rather have my gun shops instead of weed shops.

That point has happened many years ago. To late now.

Skidmark
01-09-2013, 5:04 PM
Well the story is public:
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/state&id=8945496

Has already been reported:

http://www.berkeleyside.com/2013/01/07/nancy-skinner-unveils-bill-to-regulate-ammunition-sales/

http://www.californiareport.org/archive/R201301080850/a

And probably a hundred other sites.

Gun_Owner_901
01-09-2013, 5:32 PM
Should I be buying loads of ammo, or has this bill already passed I am confused.

Dantedamean
01-09-2013, 5:38 PM
Should I be buying loads of ammo, or has this bill already passed I am confused.

Good luck finding ammo and no it hasn't passed yet.

Gun_Owner_901
01-09-2013, 5:46 PM
Good luck finding ammo and no it hasn't passed yet.

I haven't had any problem finding ammo, I was at Wal-Mart earlier today and they were stocked pretty good, I've to wait until Friday though.

Librarian
01-09-2013, 5:57 PM
Should I be buying loads of ammo, or has this bill already passed I am confused.

Please read the stickies, so you have a handle on the process; they were linked in the first post, but to repeat:

How to read a bill: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=161873

How a bill becomes law: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=591209

CCWFacts
01-09-2013, 6:25 PM
http://nancyskinnerforassembly.com/
We need to fund more community-based policing so that police can connect with the community where they serve. This will provide officers with a better understanding of the issues in that community, and the social services available to address their needs.

Not a good idea. Doesn't work out very well when there's too much understanding (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/11/sheriffs-captain-passed-information-to-drug-suspect-da-alleges.html).

Los Angeles County Sheriff's officials created an elaborate sting operation to investigate whether a respected captain was secretly passing information to a suspected drug dealer, according to records reviewed by The Times.

Capt. Bernice Abram was believed to be giving information to Dion Grim, the suspected drug dealer.
....
An FBI investigation into Abram is ongoing, a spokeswoman said.

The Sheriff's Department placed Abram on leave along with her niece, a custody assistant whom prosecutors said improperly accessed a law enforcement database for Grim. They remain on leave and together have collected more than an estimated $300,000 in salary as the sheriff's internal probe continues, based on posted county salaries.

Abram first met Grim after she started dating his father three years ago, prosecutors said. (According to her Sheriff's Department biography, Abram, 53, was married to another man.) She became "good friends" with Grim, 36, a member of the Original Front Hood Crips, a Compton street gang.
http://witnessla.com/files/2012/11/Carson-Captain-Bernice-Abram.gif

That's what happens when there's too much connection and understanding with the community.

This is also why the FBI was effective at greatly diminishing the power of the Italian mafia families in NY. The mafia families could always count on their connections and understandings with local police, but outsiders, who didn't have any connection with them, were a lot tougher to crack.

Community policing and close connections to the community are contrary to solving gang problems and the "don't snitch" problem we have.

C.W.M.V.
01-09-2013, 9:43 PM
Soooo...is it too early to start typing/writing representatives yet?

Ford8N
01-10-2013, 5:28 AM
Not a good idea. Doesn't work out very well when there's too much understanding (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/11/sheriffs-captain-passed-information-to-drug-suspect-da-alleges.html).


http://witnessla.com/files/2012/11/Carson-Captain-Bernice-Abram.gif

That's what happens when there's too much connection and understanding with the community.

This is also why the FBI was effective at greatly diminishing the power of the Italian mafia families in NY. The mafia families could always count on their connections and understandings with local police, but outsiders, who didn't have any connection with them, were a lot tougher to crack.

Community policing and close connections to the community are contrary to solving gang problems and the "don't snitch" problem we have.

A old friend of mine worked for the Department of Agriculture in Zimbabwe, it was called tribalism, it was rampant. Your tribe was more important than who you worked for.

hakenlag
01-10-2013, 7:27 AM
A old friend of mine worked for the Department of Agriculture in Zimbabwe, it was called tribalism, it was rampant. Your tribe was more important than who you worked for.

Who puts state before family after all?

SPUTTER
01-10-2013, 7:59 AM
We all know that climate in California as far as gun ownership has changed compared to 10 years ago, even 5. Guns are alot more popular now in this state, than ever before. Instead of fighting these stupid laws one after the other, a long drawn out process, why don't we band together and fight fire with fire. I'm ok with lawyers fighting these laws but what about actively lobbying and supporting candidates who support our community. What about starting a grassroots movement and getting each and everyone of us involved besides just sending a check? For chissakes...if the marijuana people can do it, why can't we?

I think a big part of the problem here is that the members here give these whacky san fran liberals way too much power. To much crying, running and hoping. Its high time we actually go on the offense.

hakenlag
01-10-2013, 9:25 AM
We all know that climate in California as far as gun ownership has changed compared to 10 years ago, even 5. Guns are alot more popular now in this state, than ever before. Instead of fighting these stupid laws one after the other, a long drawn out process, why don't we band together and fight fire with fire. I'm ok with lawyers fighting these laws but what about actively lobbying and supporting candidates who support our community. What about starting a grassroots movement and getting each and everyone of us involved besides just sending a check? For chissakes...if the marijuana people can do it, why can't we?

I think a big part of the problem here is that the members here give these whacky san fran liberals way too much power. To much crying, running and hoping. Its high time we actually go on the offense.

The problem in California is LA, not San Francisco. We all know SF, Davis, and Berzerkeley are and always have been hippie havens where pie in the sky dreams are confused with reality but, the LA metro area happens to have more than half the population of this state. The rest of the state is held hostage to the whims of whatever LA wants. For how many years has NoCal been paying sky high rates for water so that folks in SoCal can have pretty lawns? What about phone rates and utility rates we have to pay because of the millions of subsidized freebies in LA? You can blame this all on SF or Sac if you want but the reality is that it's LA and it's swarms of 17 million people, and not the Bay Area, that decides what happens to the rest of us.

You can scream and yell in SF or Sac as much as you like but until you get LA on board, (or split the state in two), it isn't gonna mean diddly. Personally I don't think LA is salvageable and would support NoCal seceding from SoCal. I'd like the line drawn pretty much at the center of the Golden Gate. That would leave the North With Berkeley but even Texas has it's Austin.;)

I'm not trying to be argumentative but if you're going to be pointing fingers, at least point them in the right direction. And no, I'm neither a Democrat or a Liberal.

WokMaster1
01-10-2013, 9:38 AM
Upon hearing this, the gangstas & criminals collectively shook their heads in disbelief & said, "that's it, the final blow, we'll have to move to another state because the law in CA has made it virtually impossible for us to become armed criminals."

IPSICK
01-10-2013, 9:49 AM
Soooo...is it too early to start typing/writing representatives yet?

I am wondering this myself.

This should start out in a committee, but do all firearms related bills start out in their respective legislative chambers safety committee before going to appropriations?

However, reading Librarian's how a bill becomes a law link it seems this will sit until a budget is passed around May or June. But will this be fast tracked by political opportunists who do not want the topic to die down over time?

For now I think we should focus on members of the initial committee reviewing this bill. Reaffirmate committee supporters of the 2nd Am, briefly state our arguments to any potential fence sitters, and finally state objection to enemies of the 2nd Am.

But importantly asking again, WHICH COMMITTEE (SAFETY)?

Skidmark
01-10-2013, 9:50 AM
Upon hearing this, the gangstas & criminals collectively shook their heads in disbelief & said, "that's it, the final blow, we'll have to move to another state because the law in CA has made it virtually impossible for us to become armed criminals."

Nah, they'll just rob people with unloaded guns...

No impact on crime from this measure that I can determine.

Librarian
01-10-2013, 12:30 PM
I am wondering this myself.

This should start out in a committee, but do all firearms related bills start out in their respective legislative chambers safety committee before going to appropriations?

...

But importantly asking again, WHICH COMMITTEE (SAFETY)?
Essentially yes - things modifying the Penal Code go to first to the Public Safety Committee of the house where the bill is introduced. In this case, Assembly Public Safety - http://apsf.assembly.ca.gov/

IPSICK
01-10-2013, 12:56 PM
Well consequences of the democratic supermajority in CA, lead to 5 Dems and 2 Rep on the Assembly Safety Committee. I'll just have to voice opposition to the authors' staff, give reasoned arguments to the other 3 Dems, and hopefully just support for their opposition to the 2 Repubs.

sarabellum
01-10-2013, 2:07 PM
This is the text of the bill:

CALIFORNIA LEGISLATURE— 2013–2014 REGULAR SESSION

Assembly Bill No. 48

Introduced by Assembly Member Skinner
(Coauthor(s): Assembly Member Ammiano)
(Coauthor(s): Senator De León)

December 20, 2012

An act to amend Sections 16740, 16890, and 32390 of, and to add Sections 16740.5, 30301, and 32311 to, the Penal Code, relating to firearms.


LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST

AB 48, as introduced, Skinner. Firearms: ammunition: sales.
(1) Except as specified, existing law makes it a crime to manufacture, import, keep for sale, offer or expose for sale, or give or lend any large-capacity magazine, and makes a large-capacity magazine a nuisance. Existing law defines “large-capacity magazine” to mean any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds but excludes, in pertinent part, a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
This bill would make it a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of not more than $1,000 or imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed 6 months, or by both that fine and imprisonment, to knowingly manufacture, import, keep for sale, offer or expose for sale, or give or lend any device that is capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine. The bill would revise the definition of “large-capacity magazine” to mean any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, including a readily restorable, as defined, disassembled large-capacity magazine, and an oversize magazine body that appears to hold in excess of 10 rounds. The bill would make related, conforming changes. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.
(2) Existing law prohibits any person, corporation, or dealer from selling ammunition to a person under 18 years of age, selling ammunition designed for use in a handgun to a person under 21 years of age, or providing possession of any ammunition to any minor who the person, corporation, or dealer knows is prohibited from possessing that ammunition at that time. Existing law prohibits a person, corporation, or firm from giving possession or control of ammunition to any person who he or she knows is prohibited by law from possessing ammunition. Existing law also regulates handgun ammunition vendors and provides that a handgun ammunition vendor shall not permit any employee who the vendor knows or reasonably should know is a person who has been convicted of a felony or other specified crimes to handle, sell, or deliver handgun ammunition in the course and scope of employment.
This bill would require anyone in the state, prior to selling, transferring, or otherwise furnishing ammunition to an individual or business entity in this state or any other state to require proper identification, as prescribed, to be an authorized firearms dealer, and to report the sales to the Department of Justice. An individual who fails to make the required report or who knowingly makes a report with false or fictitious information would be guilty of a misdemeanor, as specified. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.
The bill would require the department to alert local law enforcement entities in the community in which the purchaser resides if an individual purchaser who is not a peace officer obtains more than ____ rounds within a 5-day period.
(3) The California Constitution requires the state to reimburse local agencies and school districts for certain costs mandated by the state. Statutory provisions establish procedures for making that reimbursement.
This bill would provide that no reimbursement is required by this act for a specified reason.
Digest Key
Vote: MAJORITY Appropriation: NO Fiscal Committee: YES Local Program: YES
Bill Text
The people of the State of California do enact as follows:

SECTION 1.
Section 16740 of the Penal Code is amended to read:

16740.
(a) As used in this part, “large-capacity magazine” means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, including, but shall not be construed limited to include any of the following:, a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine and an oversize magazine body that appears to hold in excess of 10 rounds. A magazine body is not a large-capacity magazine if it is only of sufficient size to accommodate no more than 10 rounds of ammunition and the internal working parts of the magazine, including the follower and spring.

(a)A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.

(b)A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.

(c)A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.
(b) As used in this section, “readily restorable” means magazine parts under the custody and control of an individual or individuals that can be assembled into a complete magazine.

SEC. 2.
Section 16740.5 is added to the Penal Code, to read:

16740.5.
As used in this part, a “large-capacity magazine” shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(a) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(b) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

SEC. 3.
Section 16890 of the Penal Code is amended to read:

16890.
As used in Section 16150, 16740, 30305, or 30515, “magazine” means any ammunition feeding device, including readily restorable disassembled magazines. For purposes of this section, “readily restorable” means magazine parts under the custody and control of an individual or individuals that can be assembled into a complete magazine.

SEC. 4.
Section 30301 is added to the Penal Code, to read:

30301.
(a) Anyone in this state, prior to selling, transferring, or otherwise furnishing ammunition to an individual or business entity in this state or any other state, shall do all of the following:
(1) Require proper identification from the purchaser in the form of a driver’s license or other photographic identification issued by a state or the federal government.
(2) Be an authorized firearms dealer, pursuant to Section 26500.
(3) Submit a report to the Department of Justice for all of the transactions, in a manner to be determined by the department.
(b) The Department of Justice shall alert local law enforcement entities in the community in which the purchaser resides if the purchaser obtains more than ____ rounds within a five-day period and the purchaser is an individual and not an authorized firearms dealer. The department is not required to alert local law enforcement of sales of ammunition made to peace officers.
(c) (1) Any individual who does not submit the report required by paragraph (3) of subdivision (a), or who knowingly submits a report with false or fictitious information, shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding six months, by a fine not exceeding five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.
(2) Any individual who has previously been convicted of a violation of paragraph (1) shall, upon a subsequent conviction thereof, be punished by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 of the Penal Code, or by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, by a fine not exceeding one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.

SEC. 5.
Section 32311 is added to the Penal Code, to read:

32311.
Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2014, any person in this state who knowingly manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives or lends any device that is capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine is punishable by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000) or imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed six months, or by both that fine and imprisonment.

SEC. 6.
Section 32390 of the Penal Code is amended to read:

32390.
(a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, and in subdivision (b), any large-capacity magazine is a nuisance and is subject to Section 18010.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to the possession of a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine or an oversize magazine body that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds by a person who lawfully possessed the magazine prior to January 1, 2014.

SEC. 7.
No reimbursement is required by this act pursuant to Section 6 of Article XIIIB of the California Constitution because the only costs that may be incurred by a local agency or school district will be incurred because this act creates a new crime or infraction, eliminates a crime or infraction, or changes the penalty for a crime or infraction, within the meaning of Section 17556 of the Government Code, or changes the definition of a crime within the meaning of Section 6 of Article XIIIB of the California Constitution.

Contact your assembly person in writing http://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/ and/or to the Assembly Committee on Public Safety, 916.319.3745 (fax).

Skidmark
01-10-2013, 2:23 PM
snip

Probably best to limit speculation on the bill's weaknesses, lest you see those points addressed in revisions to the bill.

1Luv4SF
01-10-2013, 3:30 PM
The shooting in a SoCal High School today is going to add fuel to this gun debate fire. This is again going to fall on us.

tacocat
01-10-2013, 3:49 PM
This bill was likely constructed by a staff of advisors tasked to read this forum.

Illustrating all the shortcomings that are in this legislation as it's currently written gives them a roadmap to revise it. Should it pass, it will get jammed up in court by CGF and other entities. Let's not fight the grabbers' battle for them. Run silent, run deep, folks.

We move. Five meter spread. NO SOUND.

AlexDD
01-10-2013, 7:00 PM
How about some WW2 posters

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/11/atyresar.jpg

electric7
01-10-2013, 8:06 PM
this will do nothing to prevent gun violence in california, the people buying the most ammo are working citizens because the sh*t is expensive, nor is a criminal going to commit a crime where they will need any more than one box of ammo, who cares if your on a list with the DOJ if everyone in the state is on it as well

MattyB
01-10-2013, 9:24 PM
How about some WW2 posters

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/11/atyresar.jpg


Quoted for truth. Zip them lips.

glocksmith
01-10-2013, 11:02 PM
Someone tell Walmart to sick em' I buy ammo from them all the time.

Ford8N
01-11-2013, 5:45 AM
How about some WW2 posters

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/11/atyresar.jpg

No doubt they bait discussion. Lot's of "new" members here lately.

Sakiri
01-11-2013, 3:02 PM
No doubt they bait discussion. Lot's of "new" members here lately.

Lots of troll accounts too.

Reported a few of them myself, but holy crap.

Nonsense about TV shows, posts full of garbage links. Sometimes 3 or 4 threads by the same person with the same crap in it.

LBDamned
01-11-2013, 8:46 PM
No doubt they bait discussion. Lot's of "new" members here lately.

yes... ans it's so blatant - if it wasn't so creepy it would almost be funny.

superbart3000
01-11-2013, 9:08 PM
Wrote a question, then saw the "Enemy is Listening" post, and I took it down.

LBDamned
01-11-2013, 10:30 PM
Wrote a question, then saw the "Enemy is Listening" post, and I took it down.

smart man. I was going to comment on the previous good advice of silence...

But I did read your initial - so I will PM you what my understanding is (a part you might have missed) - even though you could be the cleaver one in disguise :eek:...

In the mean time - I think I'll change my sig to the current message of "Enemy is Listening"... we probably all should ;)

GW
01-11-2013, 11:08 PM
Of course, we should also note that suspicion and mistrust amongst Calgunners works to their advantage as well. AND lots of new members have joined because we have lots of new gun owners. Lets try not to alienate them too fast.;)

moisesangulo
01-11-2013, 11:17 PM
Of course, we should also note that suspicion and mistrust amongst Calgunners works to their advantage as well. AND lots of new members have joined because we have lots of new gun owners. Lets try not to alienate them too fast.;)

Ditto

LBDamned
01-12-2013, 9:04 AM
Of course, we should also note that suspicion and mistrust amongst Calgunners works to their advantage as well. AND lots of new members have joined because we have lots of new gun owners. Lets try not to alienate them too fast.;)

part of my post was tongue-in-cheek... and I agree with embracing "new" members...

However, it's very peculiar that lately there have been many "inquisitive" type posts from long time members with very few posts... seemingly asking "what is your view" (or what is the work-around) rather than help me learn something...

without citing each "inquisition" it's hard for me to give examples - but there have been several and it's very peculiar imo.

I will say, I am often over analytical and sometimes over skeptical - but I'd rather be cautious than foolish.

SanPedroShooter
01-12-2013, 9:13 AM
part of my post was tongue-in-cheek... and I agree with embracing "new" members...

However, it's very peculiar that lately there have been many "inquisitive" type posts from long time members with very few posts... seemingly asking "what is your view" (or what is the work-around) rather than help me learn something...

without citing each "inquisition" it's hard for me to give examples - but there have been several and it's very peculiar imo.

I will say, I am often over analytical and sometimes over skeptical - but I'd rather be cautious than foolish.

I noticed it too.

I also noticed a lot of new posters, and possibly new gun owners, that come here with view that California's byzantine and inneffective guns laws are normal or justified or, at worst, should be applied to the rest of the country. Either because they are 'common sense' or we can give the democrats that bone and they will leave us in peace. We already suffer under these laws, so who cares right?

I dont undertstand that attitute at all. Maybe I am getting old.

Sakiri
01-20-2013, 9:25 PM
Just gonna throw an obvious one out here though but... Don't ammo purchases already require ID?

I mean.. you have to be a certain age to buy it..... and unless you're a crotchety old man/woman that obviously looks ancient they should be asking for ID anyways...

zvardan
01-20-2013, 10:20 PM
At what point do legal citizens simply give up and say, "f it" to this mess? I know I'm already there. I'm so tired of complying to the whims of these idiots.

NorCalDustin
01-20-2013, 10:35 PM
At what point do legal citizens simply give up and say, "f it" to this mess? I know I'm already there. I'm so tired of complying to the whims of these idiots.
How about never?

Look, in California stuff is so messed up that I'm not really fighting for my right to keep and bear arms... I'm fighting for the rights of the next generation.

A lot of progress has been made in the last 10 years or so. There have been huge changes... The number of firearms owners in this state has increased dramatically. It's not time to throw in the towel. This is an endurance game that frankly, will never end.

At the end of the day, nothings been passed yet. If and when something like this does pass, there will be an appropriate response.

Remember... We deal with this every year. Some Sacramento politicians wake up, take the crayons out, go spend an hour in the sandbox, draw something up, and then put the bill up for consideration.

If you want to do something about it now... Start writing your representatives. Be respectful. Tell them that you do not support any new legislation that in any way restricts your right to keep and bear arms. OR Tell them that you don't specifically support AB48. --The second is my preferred option because it gives me a chance to regularly write them about any new legislation that's popped up and increases the volume of mail being sent to them.

uechikid
01-30-2013, 12:21 PM
The question was posted "is it too late to write your Reps"? It's never too late. I get frustrated reading these threads. All I hear are complaints and very few solutions. Write your politicians, every week!!! Make sure that they know how you feel!!! If you don't and they take our rights away, you don't have a right to complain. My 2 cents.

Cylarz
01-31-2013, 9:42 PM
While AB 962 got injunction based on being vague, the real "meat" behind the challenge to AB 962 was about a state trying to regulate interstate commerce. Should this bill pass, there is a ready lawsuit. This type of challenge has already been successfully applied in other states that tried the same trick with mail order tobacco.

The more these silly bills get introduced, the sooner we'll have some meaningful court precedents on our side which will forever close future attempts of this kind. This works for us.

Several states already have such laws. Why haven't they been overturned?

Meplat
01-31-2013, 10:23 PM
This is why you don’t do tradeoffs with the antis. One of the things that NRA got for outlawing newly manufactured full autos in 86 was not having to get ID and log ammo sales. We still have a forever ban on new MGs and the antis are taking back all their concessions one at a time.

Meplat
01-31-2013, 10:26 PM
Well, if it passes, it will weed out all the hoarders, paranoid delusionists, and nut cases, and I might actualy be able to go into the store and buy a friggin box of ammo. **** it, I'm gonna support the damn thing.

I'm sorry but that avatar is just wrong.:eek:

Meplat
01-31-2013, 10:32 PM
Maybe they'll outlaw buttocks too, since you can technically beat someone to death with one--LMAO.

I think that ol' gal lives on my street!

Meplat
01-31-2013, 10:56 PM
In other completely unrelated news... reloading supplies are becoming hard to find.

Thanks a lot for mentioning hand loading.:rolleyes:

I swear opsec around here sux.

Meplat
01-31-2013, 11:13 PM
One consideration is that if I have a 10/30 mag, it still holds ten rounds only, but takes more room. I can carry less. To ban mags that appear to hold more, but in fact hold 10, would serve no rational basis, and in the very unlikely situation of a mass shooting with someone using 10/30 mags or the like, it would mean he could carry less ammo, than smaller 10 rounders

Of course it would, it would cut down drastically on DiFi's Depends costs.

Meplat
01-31-2013, 11:25 PM
Banning something from out of state is against free trade and commerce laws, no?


It should be but, no; the commerce clause is the most hideously distorted part of the constitution.

Meplat
01-31-2013, 11:34 PM
Should I be buying loads of ammo, or has this bill already passed I am confused.

All you need is enough to get through the first fire fight. After that you will be dead or you will be using the other guy's ammo.

rodeoflyer
01-31-2013, 11:36 PM
For the love of god - use the multi-quote

Meplat
01-31-2013, 11:53 PM
At what point do legal citizens simply give up and say, "f it" to this mess? I know I'm already there. I'm so tired of complying to the whims of these idiots.

So what does "f it" mean? You are ready to get rid of your guns and quit fighting? Or you have decided that this is the hill you are (literally) willing to die on? If you know of any other options please share.

scootle
02-01-2013, 3:40 PM
"The bill would revise the definition of “large-capacity magazine” to mean any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, including a readily restorable, as defined, disassembled large-capacity magazine, and an oversize magazine body that appears to hold in excess of 10 rounds. The bill would make related, conforming changes. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program."

I had to laugh a little at the bit about "creating new crime" -- sigh. You know you are up the wrong tree when you are making crimes where there were none before.

Oh wait, we do have crime... but we don't do enough about it in the first place! :facepalm:

For the love of god - use the multi-quote

but but but then his post count would suffer... :P

Suvhater
02-01-2013, 5:25 PM
As to the ammunition reporting language, whats to stop "Ammunition Dealers" from reporting the ammo themselves to the DoJ without this law in effect?
Customer walks into store and buys 300 rounds of ammunition, clerk files 300 separate reports of a sale of a single bullet.

Seriously tho its still a bad idea, just thought it would be funny in this instance

DrVino
02-01-2013, 6:00 PM
As to the ammunition reporting language, whats to stop "Ammunition Dealers" from reporting the ammo themselves to the DoJ without this law in effect?
Customer walks into store and buys 300 rounds of ammunition, clerk files 300 separate reports of a sale of a single bullet.

Seriously tho its still a bad idea, just thought it would be funny in this instance

Because if you go to a range and put your rifle or carbine on a bench bag or rig and carefully fire off one round every three seconds for a 30 minute period between line breaks you'll go through 600 rounds.

300 rounds for a person who regularly practices their marksmanship skills is N O T H I N G.

uechikid
02-01-2013, 6:04 PM
Yeah, that's funny, but would you be willing to lose your firearms license over something like that?

mag360
02-01-2013, 7:22 PM
These arent the 30 rounders you're looking for...its a 10rd 458 socom rebuild kit!

Meplat
02-02-2013, 12:03 AM
Yeah, that's funny, but would you be willing to lose your firearms license over something like that?




That is not the weakness in the system. The real fallacy is that it is another unfunded mandate. In our county the Sheriff’s Dept. has to release multiple offense car thieves, because they need the jail space for violent offenders. They are months behind in processing LTC applications because we are virtually ‘shall issue’ and they can’t afford the personnel to keep up. Now, what do you think is going to happen to that DOJ alert about Joe Blow buying 500 Rnds. Of 9mm? Yep, right in the round file.

uechikid
02-02-2013, 9:30 AM
Unfortunately, this state is so screwed up that they would probably make investigating the guy that bought 500 rds of 9mm a priority.

Cylarz
02-11-2013, 9:23 PM
Why hasn't NRA sued states which already ban Internet/mail order ammo sales?

uechikid
02-11-2013, 11:58 PM
Good question. I'd also like to know what the NRA is doing to help states like our's, NY and NJ keep our guns via the 2nd Amendment besides telling us to write our elected officials. Which I do at least once a week.

sniper5
02-12-2013, 12:02 AM
Wonder what would happen if, say, every gun owner was to buy or order 1000 rounds of ammo the day the law went into effect? Just a thought. They might get done investigating the reports by, oh say, 2020.

WeekendWarrior
02-19-2013, 5:01 PM
Wonder what would happen if, say, every gun owner was to buy or order 1000 rounds of ammo the day the law went into effect? Just a thought. They might get done investigating the reports by, oh say, 2020.

That was my reaction. If this gets passed and goes into law I think we have to do that. Start saving now people! :D

Scarecrow Repair
02-19-2013, 7:53 PM
That was my reaction. If this gets passed and goes into law I think we have to do that. Start saving now people! :D

And for extra goodness, and to get people involved who can't afford to buy 1000 round lots, we can sell the same ammo to each other, over and over, back and forth, many times a day.

warthog1984
03-01-2013, 11:16 PM
And for extra goodness, and to get people involved who can't afford to buy 1000 round lots, we can sell the same ammo to each other, over and over, back and forth, many times a day.

I saw something like that one time- the local brass decreed that when multiple persons needed to salute "in passing" that each person had to individually salute each other in descending seniority.:facepalm:

That lasted until people started "ambushing" the head shed by having 4,5, or more people converge one senior officer at once. multiple times.;)

LBDamned
03-02-2013, 2:00 AM
^^^ WTF??? are you drunk?

CMonfort
03-29-2013, 4:05 PM
This bill and AB 169 are set to be heard in committee this Tuesday. NRA sent out an alert on this today. Our office will repost the alert via calgunlaws tomorrow. Please call, write and fax the committee members before Tuesday and spread the word.

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state-legislation/2013/3/california-call-to-action-two-anti-gun-bills-are-expected-to-be-heard-next-tuesday.aspx?s=&st=&ps

Librarian
03-29-2013, 11:59 PM
Bump

uechikid
03-30-2013, 10:20 AM
I wrote emails Thursday, I'll call on Monday.

1981
03-30-2013, 11:04 AM
anti-human rights extremists are going after everything they can think of...

http://legiscan.com/gaits/search?state=CA&keyword=firearm

CMonfort
04-01-2013, 11:19 AM
Bump.

uechikid
04-01-2013, 11:30 AM
Just called the committee members.

JSolie
04-01-2013, 11:37 AM
Faxes sent. Again.

... and again because of a small typo

Zachs300zx
04-01-2013, 12:11 PM
Love how they block contact if you are not in their district....

Looks like firearmpolicy.org works to email them all
http://www.firearmspolicy.org/the-issues/california/2013-2014/ab48/

VAReact
04-01-2013, 12:14 PM
Just called the committee members.

Called to oppose AB 169 and AB 48 -will email after work today at 1500.

chip3757
04-01-2013, 1:50 PM
Reading the text shows ammo purchases above _____ rounds will be reported to law enforcement, how can they leave the # blank?

LBDamned
04-01-2013, 2:03 PM
Reading the text shows ammo purchases above _____ rounds will be reported to law enforcement, how can they leave the # blank?

probably TBD (to be determined)... finalized version will most likely have the number.

jrr
04-01-2013, 2:07 PM
edit: re-read existing code. Nevermind.

Emails sent.. for whatever good they do. At least I can say I went on the record.

Lugiahua
04-01-2013, 2:12 PM
just sent emails through FP.org.

CrazyPhuD
04-01-2013, 2:24 PM
Reading the text shows ammo purchases above _____ rounds will be reported to law enforcement, how can they leave the # blank?

Well clearly if you buy more than zero rounds it's supposed to be reported to law enforcement!:cool2:

CaliforniaLiberal
04-01-2013, 3:06 PM
Reading the text shows ammo purchases above _____ rounds will be reported to law enforcement, how can they leave the # blank?


Bill is not yet in it's final form. The Bill's author probably didn't know what to put in for the number of rounds, figured it would get hashed out in hearings and debate. Will be amended with a real number (preferably an integer :)) before it's in final form and gets voted on by the whole legislature.

randian
04-01-2013, 3:15 PM
Will be amended with a real number (preferably an integer :)) before it's in final form and gets voted on by the whole legislature.
An imaginary number would be more in their wheelhouse.

BakaLogic
04-01-2013, 3:27 PM
I used FPC.org to send emails and noticed that most of them say to go through their own website if you want to correspond with them. I emailed my representatives directly through the website.

If you used FPC.org you might want to take the time to make sure they haven't requested that you use their website to submit comments.

VAReact
04-01-2013, 5:03 PM
I've tried emailing the Public Safety Committee members, but the websites will not let me submit, as my ZIP code places me out of thier respective areas of representation. Solution?

uechikid
04-01-2013, 5:15 PM
Strange, last week I email the all using the links the NRA-ILA had in their alert. In fact I emailed them them twice. The other one was about AB 871, improving language in the current concealed carry law.

Hoop
04-02-2013, 8:17 AM
I've tried emailing the Public Safety Committee members, but the websites will not let me submit, as my ZIP code places me out of thier respective areas of representation. Solution?

I'm having the same problem however I can still call them obviously.

kaligaran
04-02-2013, 10:09 AM
I'm in meetings all morning and been checking calguns in between each one.

Has the two anti-bills been discussed yet? If so, someone please post the details. I'm itching to see what's going on.

Hoooper
04-02-2013, 11:08 AM
I was under the impression this was the ammo permits law, but im not seeing that in the bill. Was the bill updated or is that just another bill?

GrizzlyGuy
04-02-2013, 11:14 AM
Reading the text shows ammo purchases above _____ rounds will be reported to law enforcement, how can they leave the # blank?

According to this bill analysis (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/13-14/bill/asm/ab_0001-0050/ab_48_cfa_20130401_100430_asm_comm.html), the number is 3000 within a 5-day period:

5) Requires DOJ to alert local law enforcement entities in the community in which the purchaser resides if an individual purchaser who is not a peace officer obtains more than 3000 rounds within a 5-day period.

This could change in the future, of course.

Hoooper
04-02-2013, 11:36 AM
^^^ wait that is the amount to get DOJ to notify local law enforcement, what is the minimum for reporting to the DOJ? Looks like all quantities are to be reported to DOJ.

GrizzlyGuy
04-02-2013, 11:44 AM
^^^ wait that is the amount to get DOJ to notify local law enforcement, what is the minimum for reporting to the DOJ? Looks like all quantities are to be reported to DOJ.

The bill (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/13-14/bill/asm/ab_0001-0050/ab_48_bill_20130204_amended_asm_v98.html) would require all sales to be reported to DOJ, even if you sold just a single round to someone:

Anyone in this state, prior to selling, transferring,
or otherwise furnishing ammunition to an individual or business
entity in this state or any other state, shall do all of the
following...Submit a report to the Department of Justice for all of the
transactions, in a manner to be determined by the department.

FFASpector
04-02-2013, 11:46 AM
I'm in meetings all morning and been checking calguns in between each one.

Has the two anti-bills been discussed yet? If so, someone please post the details. I'm itching to see what's going on.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=737257

emptybottle151
04-02-2013, 11:49 AM
So what are next steps for these bills?

LeeSmith@Michel&Assoc.
04-02-2013, 11:52 AM
The bill passed out of Assembly Public Safety, 5-2.

1BigPea
04-02-2013, 11:54 AM
The bill passed out of Assembly Public Safety, 5-2.

Thanks for the update...I'm not surprised the least bit.