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Gabriel80
12-21-2012, 7:31 AM
The NRA has pushed the conference back to 8am today.

What do you predict they will say and who will be the secret guest speaker they've promised?

00Medic
12-21-2012, 7:44 AM
All I want them to say is three words.


"NOT ONE INCH!!!!!"

Baconator
12-21-2012, 7:45 AM
That they are folding and will be giving all of their money to the anti gun effort.

BigJ
12-21-2012, 7:48 AM
Here's the live feed link: http://home.nra.org/#/home

Eddie916
12-21-2012, 7:50 AM
Thanks for the link and You will neve break our backs..

CHIEFone
12-21-2012, 7:52 AM
link appreciated!

BigJ
12-21-2012, 7:53 AM
I was too young(ish - aka uninvolved) to know what the NRA did when the '94 AWB was authored and voted in. Can someone summarize the effect the NRA had on things for us back then?

Gabriel80
12-21-2012, 7:53 AM
I'll be glued to the tv for this. T-minus 10 minutes!

SKSer
12-21-2012, 7:54 AM
Im wondering if the guest speaker is the father of the victim of columbine.

What i would hope they would do is point out how bad the government has dropped the ball on school safety and that they would own up to it instead of trying to push the blame on gun owners. Maybe even offer to contribute reasonably to school safety. Who knows, maybe you would have a lot more teachers join the NRA if they knew their money was going to make their schools safer.

Im not sure they have had quite a bit of time to come up with something good.

00Medic
12-21-2012, 7:56 AM
In '94 they folded like cheap lawn furniture. They where more about "sporting guns".

mag360
12-21-2012, 7:57 AM
Three words...not one inch.

Actually I think they will support mental health reporting California style and universal background checks. They will not cave on ARs or mags, IMO.

SKSer
12-21-2012, 7:58 AM
"well first we would like to address the fact that we really though the world was gonna end today, so when i woke up this morning i was thinking S**T!!!! Plan A is out the window!!!"

LAWABIDINGCITIZEN
12-21-2012, 7:58 AM
....... who will be the secret guest speaker they've promised?

I heard it will be Joe Biden! All we have to do is provide a camera, let him open his mouth, and watch their entire effort crumble before their eyes!


:D

voiceofreason
12-21-2012, 8:01 AM
go NRA go!!!!

P.Charm
12-21-2012, 8:02 AM
"well first we would like to address the fact that we really though the world was gonna end today, so when i woke up this morning i was thinking S**T!!!! Plan A is out the window!!!"

LOL!

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 8:03 AM
Last night I was thinking about this. At first I was thinking they would roll over.

Then I got to thinking, based on their statement earlier in the week, I'm thinking they may offer free training for teachers that want to carry, and additional support.

It has started so I guess we will see.

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 8:04 AM
I'm liking it so far.

Go NRA

Gabriel80
12-21-2012, 8:07 AM
Nice to see that kook kicked out!!! What a goon!!

the86d
12-21-2012, 8:07 AM
Liberal Whackos!

All of code pink is a bunch of drug-induced freaks.

Distro
12-21-2012, 8:07 AM
Not the best protester if he is stuttering.

DC-8
12-21-2012, 8:08 AM
Code Pink guy was hilarious...

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 8:08 AM
Going after the media. Good

Gabriel80
12-21-2012, 8:08 AM
Not the best protester if he is stuttering.

His hands were shaking like a tweaker!!! Scared much??

P.Charm
12-21-2012, 8:08 AM
NRA is killing our children! haha

Distro
12-21-2012, 8:09 AM
Going after the media. Good
This. He went there. And I bet there was a gasp amongst news anchors.

DC-8
12-21-2012, 8:10 AM
Great...video games...

TacoJockey
12-21-2012, 8:11 AM
Going after the video games....

TacoJockey
12-21-2012, 8:12 AM
heh, video game pr0n

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 8:12 AM
I wish he would have spent more time on gun free zones, including outside of schools. I'm glad he is spreading it around though.

Distro
12-21-2012, 8:13 AM
Basically turned it around on Piers Morgan.

bobgengeskahn
12-21-2012, 8:13 AM
Honestly, I can understand the videogame thing, in the age group that hes talking about...

Oh look, another one....

DC-8
12-21-2012, 8:13 AM
Another ***ing idiot...

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 8:13 AM
Did the NRA not vet who was coming in?

Distro
12-21-2012, 8:14 AM
"What's your reaction?"


*looks*

continues speech.

the86d
12-21-2012, 8:14 AM
This trick doesn't even know what an assault weapon is, nor did any of her family serve in the military, I assume!

Hahahaa! Liberals NEVER know what they are talking about when it comes to firearms, indeed.

mt4design
12-21-2012, 8:14 AM
Wow. This may be one of the most well written speeches I've heard. I also like that, regardless of the interruptions patience is demonstrated. I keep getting buffering issues though, so I guess the feed must be getting hit hard.

Mike

scarville
12-21-2012, 8:16 AM
Going after the video games....

That will never go anywhere and I'm pretty sure he knows it. Chess not checkers.

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 8:16 AM
Guns in schools.

DC-8
12-21-2012, 8:16 AM
"Only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

Love it.

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 8:16 AM
That will never go anywhere and I'm pretty sure he knows it. Chess not checkers.

yep

Wildhawk66
12-21-2012, 8:17 AM
Not feeling this speech...

Sportsmans_Arms_Gabe
12-21-2012, 8:17 AM
Very well presented thus far...

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 8:18 AM
Doing a good job so far.

Gabriel80
12-21-2012, 8:19 AM
"When your glass breaks at 3am you can't pray hard enough for a gun in the hands of a good guy to come to your house fastest enough."

So good! So true!!

GettoPhilosopher
12-21-2012, 8:19 AM
At work and cant listen. Can someone find a transcript once it's done and post it? Pretty pleeeeeaase?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 8:19 AM
He needs to go to CCW in schools!!~!!!!@

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 8:19 AM
Going after the PRes!!!!!!!

putput
12-21-2012, 8:19 AM
Certainly not throwing us under the bus... Now if we can just stand together...

the86d
12-21-2012, 8:20 AM
Dropped the O-bomb, there... :)

savannah
12-21-2012, 8:21 AM
Great so far! Good job LaPierre. Now if NBC would just cover the press conference. Hey we will know the best " holiday wear" to put on at the school pageant.

bobgengeskahn
12-21-2012, 8:22 AM
I love it when people go after the foreign aid budget, its a monster that pretty much everyone forgets about that would help us solve a lot of problems back here....

TacoJockey
12-21-2012, 8:23 AM
Love the example of sports venues being protected, but not schools. Good job so far.

Mad Scotsman
12-21-2012, 8:24 AM
Good stuff. I like what I'm hearing. NRA program for model school.

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 8:25 AM
NRA just wrote a blank check for their program. Very nice.

gtturborex
12-21-2012, 8:25 AM
Is there another video somewhere on this? I missed the first part and the live feed keeps freezing.

fliparch
12-21-2012, 8:26 AM
This makes too much sense. The Anti's must see this.

I would want a trained armed security in my children's school.

Diablohtr
12-21-2012, 8:26 AM
Glad I joined the NRA yesterday, think I am signing my brothers up for Christmas.

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 8:26 AM
I bet O is throwing stuff right now!

thalex
12-21-2012, 8:27 AM
NRA just wrote a blank check for their program. Very nice.

I came in a little late on this since I am at work, so far I really like how they are presenting this.

taperxz
12-21-2012, 8:28 AM
For all those concerned about the cost of armed LE in every school,

We already have such at , airports, court houses, sporting events, on our streets, for our president, now for members of congress who request it. Why can't we afford to protect our children in schools? I love it!

savannah
12-21-2012, 8:28 AM
Just sent in my NRA membership eight months early! Think it is time I added another donation!

Gabriel80
12-21-2012, 8:28 AM
Special guest Asa Hutchinson to head the model school shield program.

So far this is great! Well thought out IMO

mike_c70
12-21-2012, 8:28 AM
Great so far! Good job LaPierre. Now if NBC would just cover the press conference. Hey we will know the best " holiday wear" to put on at the school pageant.

Nothing on CNN either

IPSICK
12-21-2012, 8:29 AM
A line in the sand...

Blame on entertainment media seemed heavy-handed with archaic movie references. Not sure if everyone believes it or not but many gunowners could be players of games they are vilifying. Although materially correct to call mentally ill killers as evil monsters, not politically correct. Disagree if you like with political correctness, but it is a part of the media landscape. Offering material help with lobbying for help for the mentally ill could have helped as a bit of a diplomatic olive wreath.

Also better speech writers and a telestrater could have smoothed things.

I do like what they are offering but this will be a difficult road to plow against the building liberal anti-gun storm.

TacoJockey
12-21-2012, 8:30 AM
Love this schools idea, so difficult for the antis to come out against school safety

I think my wife and 2 yr old daughter are getting gift memberships for Christmas

Mad Scotsman
12-21-2012, 8:31 AM
Nothing on CNN either

I'm on CNN. Comcast, watching it now.

LAWABIDINGCITIZEN
12-21-2012, 8:32 AM
The media will only report and show pictures of the protesters with very little details or totally dismissing everything said.

The fight is on. A ban will not pass!

johnny_22
12-21-2012, 8:32 AM
KQED-88.5 FM had it.

Had the quote from Wayne about good people with guns.

Also, played the interruptions from one heckler.

Gabriel80
12-21-2012, 8:33 AM
NRA.org for a text of the speech Wayne just gave

stix213
12-21-2012, 8:33 AM
Glad to see the NRA didn't throw any gun owners under the bus. Their response seemed reasonable to me.

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 8:34 AM
I loved how he took the thunder out of their headlines tomorrow.

trevorlc
12-21-2012, 8:35 AM
I think they did a good job, a little untraditional but I think thats what it takes in this day and age.

Arreaux
12-21-2012, 8:35 AM
I'm impressed....Well done.

Eirerogue
12-21-2012, 8:36 AM
I thought the conference was great and he threw it right back at the ignorant press, who ignored the cultural changes in this country, the video violence and the stupid one-sided reporting. Announcing their own National School Shield program and using Asa Hutchinson as its' leader was brillant. While Washington dithers over who's doing what and pounding their liberal chests, the NRA has created a pro-active program, highlighted the lack of will and fundng by the politicans and significantly raised it's profile and membership ranks.

Excellent job!

Wildhawk66
12-21-2012, 8:37 AM
Liked the overall message and new program. Thought his word/phrasing choices could have been a lot better.

For instance, the "we must act now, we can't afford to wait for congress..." is exactly the type of thing I am expecting from Obama in terms of antigun executive orders and a lot of what was said during this speech could easily be flipped against us.

00Medic
12-21-2012, 8:37 AM
At work. Can't watch. What is the feeling everyone is getting? Is the NRA going to hold the line and fight with everything they have?

CHIEFone
12-21-2012, 8:38 AM
good stuff for sure. stood the ground and dug in!
its funny some of these media outlets saying breaking news, NRA dont want more gun control. already spinning the ish.
but they are right, the NRA that is that we protect everything with security but schools.

Wherryj
12-21-2012, 8:39 AM
I'm not only getting buffering issues, when it does play there's no sound. Hopefully it will be posted after the completion of the press conference. I heard about it too late this morning from someone I know at the NRA. (actually a "friend of a friend", honest!)

Gabriel80
12-21-2012, 8:40 AM
In no way whatsoever will the NRA be joining Biden, that's for damn sure!!!

SamsDX
12-21-2012, 8:40 AM
The legislative/lobbying arm of the NRA has been taking a beating over the last week, and indeed, every time there has been a mass shooting. The new school shield program leans heavily on the existing good reputation of all the training programs they have done over the last hundred years or so, and it's sort of a "back to basics" action that we all seem to be fond of lately.

If you think about it, this makes sense - let all the furor over assault weapon bans, magazine capacity restrictions, etc. die down, propose an immediate solution that can be deployed right now, and make the Feinsteins, Yees, DeLeons, and McCarthys of the world look like panicked reactionaries.

Didn't much appreciate the attack on the video games and movies, but if people can draw some metaphysical connection between the availability of guns and these shootings, so can the connection between recent entertainment sources and these shootings. I don't think there's much of a connection in either case.

Overall I think it's a good tactic.

ErikTheRed
12-21-2012, 8:41 AM
As a cautious skeptic of the NRA's dealing with issues like this, I am comfortably satisfied with Mr. LaPierre's speech. Well done, and I feel my membership dues are so far well-represented on this matter. Renewal will be sent Jan. 1, likely with a membership upgrade.

IPSICK
12-21-2012, 8:42 AM
Not feeling this speech...

Agree a little bit.

He needs to go to CCW in schools!!~!!!!@

Initially in the aftermath of this tragedy, it should be armed and well trained security. As it further evolves, CCW should be the eventual solution.

I loved how he took the thunder out of their headlines tomorrow.

I hope it works but the media will not show that in their reports, so it likely will not.

SKSer
12-21-2012, 8:43 AM
I swear the NRA has been browsing through the forums here...

I posted this on 12-17 3 days ago. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=657813

We simply live in a world were there are psychopaths that want to harm innocent people, there is not alot we can do about it. They can conjure up infinite ways using a huge assortment of readily available materials to do alot of harm to people. What would have been the difference of this guy walking into the classroom with molotov cocktails or a IED, people make those things in third world countries without electricity.

The true failure here is on the school district and it complete lack of security. They are the ones to take all the blame. That is truly the only thing that could have been done different and for those little angels to still be alive. The school where we all drop off our precious cargo should have complete control over the safety of our children. If we cant keep the Psycho's locked up for whatever reason, then they need to be completely locked out, by whatever means necessary. We lock our money in a vault, and our precious valubles in a safe, but we keep our most irreplaceable treasures behind wooden doors with windows that can be broken, and no one on site that can do anything to protect them but cry and hide. There is better security at our major sporting events then at schools.

IPSICK
12-21-2012, 8:44 AM
Liked the overall message and new program. Thought his word/phrasing choices could have been a lot better...

Totally agree.

The message was delivered fairly well, but I was kind of hoping for perfection.

CortoPasta
12-21-2012, 8:45 AM
Couldn't have thought of a better speech, honestly. Only part I would change, is where he throws the media under the bus. Is he right? Absolutely. Will doing so cause the rest of the message to get swept under the rug, and not reported on? Most likely.

As a person struggling to make ends meet with starting a new business, I see lifetime memberships to the NRA coming very soon for my two sons (1-1/2 and 6 months). Very relieved to hear a thoughtful and intelligent plan of action put forth by the NRA

Baconator
12-21-2012, 8:45 AM
Yeah but a CIA trained, mind controlled, manchurian candidate will be able to get around an armed guard to accomplish the goals of the govt.

Trenchfoot
12-21-2012, 8:46 AM
1st part was meh...you don't protect the 2A by blaming the 1A. 2nd part was much better.

pennys dad
12-21-2012, 8:46 AM
Sound Program. CALGUNS C3 will get involved and figure out how to participate and help be leaders for our site in however the NRA see fit.

mt4design
12-21-2012, 8:46 AM
If posed with the choice of keeping violent video games or the Second Amendment, of course I would choose the Second Amendment.

But, I would ask, why must I make a choice?

Violent video games already have warning labels and is there any shred of evidence that suggests that they were a factor in the evil actions that insane individual?

Its a free country... or at least it once was.

The evil acts of one individual cannot and should not cause others to lose their liberty.

Mike

TacoJockey
12-21-2012, 8:48 AM
Liked the overall message and new program. Thought his word/phrasing choices could have been a lot better.

For instance, the "we must act now, we can't afford to wait for congress..." is exactly the type of thing I am expecting from Obama in terms of antigun executive orders and a lot of what was said during this speech could easily be flipped against us.

The NRA can say this, they don't need to wait for congress. O does.

I like how the NRA is showing action while O creates a committee to make proposals.

njineermike
12-21-2012, 8:49 AM
The statement about movies and video games gives perspective. Hollywood and the game industry make huge profits off the idea of gun violence, and some it quite graphic and elaborate, but hypocritically decry the actuality of it. If they were so morally opposed to it, why make money of the pretend version?

Luieburger
12-21-2012, 8:49 AM
Although I was sad to see Wayne shove blame to violent media, at least he spent little time on the subject and proposed no actions for reducing violent media.

I like the school shield program. I don't know how it will pan out, but perhaps it's time I got my NRA instructors training and became more involved. Maybe I could help out with training if the ball ever gets rolling on this program. Either way, I've been wanting to get instructor training for quite some time. Now seems like a good opportunity.

CHIEFone
12-21-2012, 8:50 AM
the video game stuff is to address a mental state in my view. i have a co-worker (in his 30's) who games a lot and talks about how he a wizard and ****, he addicted to the internet, his fb, and goes agro if something aint going his way. mental state of this guy unstable to me. i think that is was the point wayne was trying to draw... but kinda failed at it a lil bit

Arreaux
12-21-2012, 8:51 AM
Glad they demanded the placement of officers to the schools before o's committee thinks about it. I'm sure the Dem's will spin it their way...

truthseeker
12-21-2012, 8:51 AM
WOW! They actually came up with a plan that even the anti's can't argue against.

13withinfinity
12-21-2012, 8:52 AM
Video games harder to get.... Firearms harder to get.... Eh, i dont agree with the whole video game gig but i would rather keep my firearm rights.

billofrights
12-21-2012, 8:52 AM
I just read the transcript and I have to say, I honestly teared up with pride as a law abiding gun owner.

We're not the problem- WE'RE THE SOLUTION.

El Toro
12-21-2012, 8:53 AM
Now is the time to ask Liberal gun-grabbers to pony-up and support the School Shield program! If they decline to support it, then they're NOT for the children are they?

If you have a friend or co-worker who supports gun bans, ask them to join the NRA to support the protection of our children! The look on their face as they scramble to get their minds around the idea? Priceless!

retired
12-21-2012, 8:53 AM
Here is the link to the transcript from the NRA site. It contains both Wayne's and Asa's speeches:

http://home.nra.org/pdf/Transcript_PDF.pdf

smogcity
12-21-2012, 8:53 AM
As someone with hollywood friends "in the business", I loved media being called on their contributions to moral decline. Every one of these industry types i know pipes up about "we must ban guns", then I remind them of their participation in the latest murder porn film...

mif_slim
12-21-2012, 8:54 AM
Saw only the last minute of it.... checked and no links on the full video.. only of the stupid Anti... Grr..

randomBytes
12-21-2012, 8:54 AM
I thought this was an excellent response from the NRA.
They came across as thoughtful, sane and reasonable - a stark contrast to much of the discussion since Sandy Hook.

H Paul Payne
12-21-2012, 8:55 AM
In '94 they folded like cheap lawn furniture. They where more about "sporting guns".

Were you there? Because I was! And what you said is not accurate.

The fight over the Clinton Gun Ban was almost three years before I became employed with the NRA, but I was involved in the opposition to it.

To state it simply: WE DIDN'T HAVE THE VOTES NEEDED TO WIN!

This occurred for many reasons including the fact that some of our "friends" abandoned us and voted with Clinton's side. To say that the NRA "folded" or did anything less than the absolute best that anyone could have done is simply not true. And no amount of history revision can change that fact. Like I said, I know because I was directly involved.

BTW, the NRA did have the ability to get the "sunset clause" in the gun ban and that is why it expired in 2004. Even some of the wishy-washy legislators voted for that part. They considered it "splitting the baby."

Oh, and another thing, when the NRA was offered a 20 round mag ban instead of a 10 round limit, if we would just lessen our opposition, we told them NO WAY!!! It's true that we lost and got a 10 round limit. But we did get the sunset clause. We weren't going to make deals when they were taking away our freedoms.

And one more thing: Do you remember the '94 and '96 elections???? The NRA is widely credited for taking away Clinton's majority in response to the gun ban and Brady Bill votes.

"like cheap lawn furniture" indeed!?!?!?!?!?!

Paul

triggatronic
12-21-2012, 8:55 AM
Just finished reading the speech. Good stuff. Wish I could have heard the live broadcast because of the protesters. "Get you hand out my pocket!!" Lol. Very well thought out speech though, sounds like a good plan of action too. Glad I joined up.


Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X

otteray
12-21-2012, 8:56 AM
The NRA page just has the transcript now. Is a video available yet?

FastFinger
12-21-2012, 8:57 AM
RE: Video games.

I recall reading about a study that the Army did post WWII, it showed that a very large % of combatants had opportunities to shot at enemies - but didn't. The % was surprisingly large.

In response they completely revamped training procedures to break down the internal mental wall that kept soldiers from shooting. As a result the % of combatants who did take the shot (and many more shots) in Viet Nam and subsequent wars increased dramatically.

And that effective training (call it a mild brain wash if you want) was just presented a few hours for a few weeks early in their enlistment. I feel it'd be borderline ignorant to not expect to see a cause / effect between being immersed for hours on end in a first person shooter game and having a cavalier attitude about slaughtering others for some people who have certain mental issues.

What, if anything, can or should be done about that is a mystery to me.

LMTluvr
12-21-2012, 8:58 AM
Friggn Libtards. They really are a clueless breed aren't they?
If some pro gun types were even half that vocal they'd be casrtrated by the media and probably physically attacked. These cowards royally piss me off.

Khanan
12-21-2012, 8:58 AM
NRA has plenty of good to stand on. The program proposed is right. Bringing up that more needs to be done out of mental illness is right.

Saying hey look over there at the video games and movies is WRONG.

Why do you throw the first amendment under the bus while trying to defend the second? Isn't it the NRA that states that the second amendment is there to protect the first? Now is the time to stand strong and not try and draw attention away from the fact that gun control has not worked. Draw attention to that and don't try smoke and mirrors and say it is because of the evil {insert distraction here}.

SilverTauron
12-21-2012, 8:59 AM
1st part was meh...you don't protect the 2A by blaming the 1A. 2nd part was much better.

Yet to use the language of the anti's, what good is the 1A when its being used to kill people?

I'm a man who believes the government has no right to regulate half the stuff it does, including the 1st Amendment. Yet I share LaPierre's opinion that the media is to blame for a lot of the evil which happens in our society.

Rather then fulfill its mandate to serve as the watchdog of the public, the mainstream media today has sold its soul to idealogical socialism and commercial self interest. That's why a news channel which airs news segments demonizing AR15s and claiming "pass an AWB for our law enforcement" doesn't see the problem with playing a violent action movie like Heat right behind it showing bad guys using AR15s to kill cops. Big surprise that if you show lots of TV and movie events which show a lot of people being callously murdered, someone with mental health issues might decide its OK for them to do it too. Heck, normal people copycat each other all the time-that's why we have the saying of "keeping up with the Joneses".


The media's created a culture where everyone is just one ultra-violent massacre away from cultural immortality. Want to be instantly remembered forever? Take a weapon and kill lots of people in America, the media says. We'll put your name all over the place, blare your acts across HDTV screens constantly, and use your act of filth to make you famous. The shooter in CT would never be known to any of us if he lived a normal life, but because of his vile crimes his name will be forever enshrined in our culture. The shooter in Oregon will be remembered, but the law abiding citizen who helped stop the carnage won't be.

And then we wonder why people are killed en masse. Worse, the media has the nerve to play moralist afterward. The networks blare morally bankrupt material 24/7 365 days a year, and then have the stones to claim us law abiding gun owners are why bad things happen. Its like a spouse who commits adultery and then blames the wronged mate for violating their wedding vows.

To genuninely fix this problem not only requires a reform of our security measures ( buh bye gun free zones in schools and colleges!) , but a reform of how our media goes about its job. A gun owner his held responsible for acts with their weapon which result in bodily injury, death, or criminal behavior. The same rules should apply to Fox News, Paramount Studios and CNN.

El Toro
12-21-2012, 9:00 AM
BTW - I hope the NRA has already outlined this program with some coherent talking points. A lot of folks on both sides will want to see it's a program with substance and achievable short/long term goals. Hate to see NRA have to scramble to define the specifics because smart news organizations will want to drill down and look for flaws.

Further, they should create membership drive materials related to this. I can see pop-up booths outside shopping malls where soccer moms are asked to contribute to the Schools Shield program. Just $30 per year Ma'am and you get a free magazine subscription!

five.five-six
12-21-2012, 9:00 AM
I didn't get to hear the speech but it sounds like they didn't cave on anything. I just spoke with my wife and We are signing the entire family up for memberships today

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2

smogcity
12-21-2012, 9:03 AM
[QUOTE=Khanan;9976965]
Saying hey look over there at the video games and movies is WRONG.[QUOTE]

The media as a whole has lined up against all gun owners/supporters. They must know they will be dragged in to the fray as the MAIN cause of this and future horrors if they keep throwing their lot in with the knee-jerk banners.

We hang together or we hang separately

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 9:03 AM
The statement about movies and video games gives perspective. Hollywood and the game industry make huge profits off the idea of gun violence, and some it quite graphic and elaborate, but hypocritically decry the actuality of it. If they were so morally opposed to it, why make money of the pretend version?

I agree. Nowhere did he call for a ban of video games or violent movies, but he brought about the hypocrisy of those in the media for blaming the gun. I don't think games should be banned or regulated any more, but attention needs to be paid as to what are the causes. In general, video games, in many households have become babysitters and therefore their message is what is received. It starts in the home.

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 9:04 AM
Yet to use the language of the anti's, what good is the 1A when its being used to kill people?

I'm a man who believes the government has no right to regulate half the stuff it does, including the 1st Amendment. Yet I share LaPierre's opinion that the media is to blame for a lot of the evil which happens in our society.

Rather then fulfill its mandate to serve as the watchdog of the public, the mainstream media today has sold its soul to idealogical socialism and commercial self interest. That's why a news channel which airs news segments demonizing AR15s and claiming "pass an AWB for our law enforcement" doesn't see the problem with playing a violent action movie like Heat right behind it showing bad guys using AR15s to kill cops. Big surprise that if you show lots of TV and movie events which show a lot of people being callously murdered, someone with mental health issues might decide its OK for them to do it too. Heck, normal people copycat each other all the time-that's why we have the saying of "keeping up with the Joneses".


The media's created a culture where everyone is just one ultra-violent massacre away from cultural immortality. Want to be instantly remembered forever? Take a weapon and kill lots of people in America, the media says. We'll put your name all over the place, blare your acts across HDTV screens constantly, and use your act of filth to make you famous. The shooter in CT would never be known to any of us if he lived a normal life, but because of his vile crimes his name will be forever enshrined in our culture. The shooter in Oregon will be remembered, but the law abiding citizen who helped stop the carnage won't be.

And then we wonder why people are killed en masse. Worse, the media has the nerve to play moralist afterward. The networks blare morally bankrupt material 24/7 365 days a year, and then have the stones to claim us law abiding gun owners are why bad things happen. Its like a spouse who commits adultery and then blames the wronged mate for violating their wedding vows.

To genuninely fix this problem not only requires a reform of our security measures ( buh bye gun free zones in schools and colleges!) , but a reform of how our media goes about its job. A gun owner his held responsible for acts with their weapon which result in bodily injury, death, or criminal behavior. The same rules should apply to Fox News, Paramount Studios and CNN.

Well said.

baddos
12-21-2012, 9:04 AM
I've played video games for years and have no desire to kill or hurt anyone. In fact there was a domestic violence shooting outside of my work a couple years back and it was the worst thing I have ever seen.

Video games while violent and action packed are nothing at all like real life violence. I think it's a far stretch to say one leads to the other.

GutPunch
12-21-2012, 9:05 AM
I can't say I fully agree with the comments about the media or video games. However, they did everything else right. Well done.

joefrank64k
12-21-2012, 9:05 AM
Were you there? Because I was! And what you said is not accurate.

The fight over the Clinton Gun Ban was almost three years before I became employed with the NRA, but I was involved in the opposition to it.

To state it simply: WE DIDN'T HAVE THE VOTES NEEDED TO WIN!

This occurred for many reasons including the fact that some of our "friends" abandoned us and voted with Clinton's side. To say that the NRA "folded" or did anything less than the absolute best that anyone could have done is simply not true. And no amount of history revision can change that fact. Like I said, I know because I was directly involved.

BTW, the NRA did have the ability to get the "sunset clause" in the gun ban and that is why it expired in 2004. Even some of the wishy-washy legislators voted for that part. They considered it "splitting the baby."

Oh, and another thing, when the NRA was offered a 20 round mag ban instead of a 10 round limit, if we would just lessen our opposition, we told them NO WAY!!! It's true that we lost and got a 10 round limit. But we did get the sunset clause. We weren't going to make deals when they were taking away our freedoms.

And one more thing: Do you remember the '94 and '96 elections???? The NRA is widely credited for taking away Clinton's majority in response to the gun ban and Brady Bill votes.

"like cheap lawn furniture" indeed!?!?!?!?!?!

Paul

Damn straight.

I remember meeting Wayne LaPierre at the big Pomona Gun Show back then. He was signing copies of his latest book. The NRA was there fighting to the end, and like you pointed out, the fact they got the sunset clause was huge. The SC is the ONLY reason we have access to the weapons and regular-capacity magazines we enjoy today.

Everyone who isn't a member needs to join the NRA right now. I'm a lifer and proud of it.

00Medic
12-21-2012, 9:06 AM
Were you there? Because I was! And what you said is not accurate.

Yes. I was there. You are very much correct. I appologize for miss speaking. I do remember the NRA fighting but being out numbered. Again, I apologize.

jonc
12-21-2012, 9:09 AM
i think speech was great...

but a week to think about what to say,
should of been better i thought.

Wildhawk66
12-21-2012, 9:09 AM
Originally Posted by Wildhawk66 View Post
Liked the overall message and new program. Thought his word/phrasing choices could have been a lot better.

For instance, the "we must act now, we can't afford to wait for congress..." is exactly the type of thing I am expecting from Obama in terms of antigun executive orders and a lot of what was said during this speech could easily be flipped against us.

The NRA can say this, they don't need to wait for congress. O does.

I like how the NRA is showing action while O creates a committee to make proposals.

You completely missed the point of my post. My point was that we can take action and make speeches in such a way that our exact words can't be flipped 180 degrees and used directly against us. There were some problems with this speech from this regard.

Also, you should not be so certain that Obama has to wait for congress to take action. He is a big fan of executive orders and he does not need congressional approval for them.

edwardm
12-21-2012, 9:15 AM
Didn't find in while searching the thread, so....

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/AssociationP

C-SPAN footage of the press conference, including the disruptive folks.

Eldraque
12-21-2012, 9:18 AM
The speech was okay. However, blaming the entertainment industry for violence is just passing the blame off.

triggatronic
12-21-2012, 9:19 AM
Dang. USA Today only had the protestor. I admit...it was mildly entertaining. "Get you hand out my pocket!!!!"


Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X

Trenchfoot
12-21-2012, 9:19 AM
As someone with hollywood friends "in the business", I loved media being called on their contributions to moral decline.

They wouldn't be making these movies, tv shows, and games if they didn't have an audience. Nobody forces people to watch "Natural Born Killers", which was actually social commentary on the glorification of murderers. Nobody makes people play "Grand Theft Auto".

Violence has always been in media, from 1915's "Birth of a Nation", to 2012's "Django unchained". Moral decline can only be put on parenting, or lack therof. It's amazing how much less likely a kid ends up being a criminal when he/she has 2 parents involved in their lives, (whether they are gay, straight, happily married, or even divorced).

SilverTauron
12-21-2012, 9:21 AM
You completely missed the point of my post. My point was that we can take action and make speeches in such a way that our exact words can't be flipped 180 degrees and used directly against us. There were some problems with this speech from this regard.

Also, you should not be so certain that Obama has to wait for congress to take action. He is a big fan of executive orders and he does not need congressional approval for them.

The media answers to the enemy.

If LaPierre said the time was 9:45 AM eastern and left the podium, the headlines would say "NRA SAYS ITS TIME FOR MORE DEATH!".

As for Obama, he can't take any permanent steps against the 2nd Amendment without Congress. Millions of gun owners voted for him in the last election, and he needs their support if he wants any permanent changes in US gun regulation to stick. He won't get it if he signs an Executive Order at 3am establishing gun control by fiat.

Intimid8tor
12-21-2012, 9:24 AM
The speech was okay. However, blaming the entertainment industry for violence is just passing the blame off.

I don't think it is. He's putting the discussion right back on the shoulders of those that are saying we should ban guns. They blame guns and then put out violent games and movies. Then the media glorifies the shooter and makes them into some kind of hero. It's hypocritical.

He also spent time placing the real blame on the shooter which is where it ultimately belongs. It was all part of a larger plan to get people to think and stop going after a tool or an inanimate object.

smogcity
12-21-2012, 9:25 AM
They wouldn't be making these movies, tv shows, and games if they didn't have an audience. Nobody forces people to watch "Natural Born Killers", which was actually social commentary on the glorification of murderers. Nobody makes people play "Grand Theft Auto".

Violence has always been in media, from 1915's "Birth of a Nation", to 2012's "Django unchained". Moral decline can only be put on parenting, or lack therof. It's amazing how much less likely a kid ends up being a criminal when he/she has 2 parents involved in their lives, (whether they are gay, straight, happily married, or even divorced).

I fully agree with you and would defend their right to make Saw #whatever...The film industry types (mostly), however feel that the 2A is a right that we can make a privilege.

First they cam for the xyz, and I didn't stand up because I wasn't an xyz..
Then they came for me and there was no one to stand up for me..
They WON'T see that

Squid
12-21-2012, 9:27 AM
LaPierre is a loon(at best).

After hearing that statement I suspect he may be a 'double agent'.

The vast majority of Americans are gonna say "instead of emergency action to put cops at all schools, how about 'emergency action' to seize guns". That is pretty reasonable, because even any American with no "tactical" anything understands guns enough to ask "Why wouldn't a psycho just shoot the cop first???"

What he missed, that rational PRIVATE schools are saying, is it is still extremely safe to send your kids to school, and if you wanted to "protect children" you would be 100X off on more traffic cops going after parents dropping off kids and rushing to work. (I know at least one person who hit a pedestrian partly because they were eyeballing a traffic cop so I'm not sure about 'more traffic cops').

He also missed a pretty rational TV shrink who explained to The View girls that it isn't the guns, it is that Pop Cu

SilverTauron
12-21-2012, 9:30 AM
They wouldn't be making these movies, tv shows, and games if they didn't have an audience. Nobody forces people to watch "Natural Born Killers", which was actually social commentary on the glorification of murderers. Nobody makes people play "Grand Theft Auto".

Violence has always been in media, from 1915's "Birth of a Nation", to 2012's "Django unchained". Moral decline can only be put on parenting, or lack therof. It's amazing how much less likely a kid ends up being a criminal when he/she has 2 parents involved in their lives, (whether they are gay, straight, happily married, or even divorced).

Ultimately, there's a double standard regarding the 1st Amendment vs the 2nd. If a gun owners weapon is stolen and used in a crime, the gun owner is in some quarters held to be equally responsible as the perpetrator for allowing their weapon to fall into the wrong hands.

Yet, the media is given a pass when they air movies which glorify violence and criminal behavior for cheap ratings. Movie studios green light empty projects with little creative value and then wonder why kids emulate it. In the 50s and 60s kids emulated people like John Wayne and Clint Eastwood. Not the cleanest of guys mind you, but there was moral and creative value to their shows and movies. A 1970s show like Shaft wasn't clean and tidy, but there was moral value in it that you won't find with modern TV shows.

Today we're bombarded with ads and media that show people screwing each other over , acting petty & materialistic and which shows the bad guys winning over the good guys, and the media isn't held to account for ANY of it. Guns get stolen out of an unlocked car, gun owner is held responsible. Media makes a movie that glorifies torture and death,and no one calls them out for it when they get around to bleating the gun control mantra.

I remember the producer for the movie Pulp Fiction making an anti-gun statement before CT happened, and we all had a good laugh on this forum because the guy's gotten filthy rich off of gratuitous gun violence. If civil rights demand equal measure of pesonal responsibility, then the 1st Amendment is in dire need of cultural and perhaps legal reform. Yup, I said it. If we're comfortable with background checks and CCW permits for carrying a firearm, perhaps we need to regulate movies and video games in the same way.

If that suggestion offends you, perhaps you should ask yourself why before typing a response to this.

tom1850
12-21-2012, 9:33 AM
I thought it was a fantastic address by Lapierre. The point of addressing the media was to point out the thousands and thousands of deadly images children are exposed to. Do parents have no responsibility to keep their kids away from terrible images and toxic chemicals? I mean really how many TV shows these days begin with a rape or murder. It's not Leave It to Beaver out there. Of all the blah blah I hear all week on all the networks this was the first person who had an actual solution that could help protect kids in schools. It is true that today we might as well have a sign on school buildings saying There are no guns here! No one would want to publish a Gun Free Home....well maybe this is what the antis should consider if that is how they truly feel.

I was very impressed, not only with the speech, but with the fact he had a potential solution that can be put in place in weeks without political debate.

Trenchfoot
12-21-2012, 9:35 AM
Yet to use the language of the anti's, what good is the 1A when its being used to kill people?



Because if we use that line of reasoning, how can we justify defending the 2A if we are so ready to decry what the 1A allows people to do?

People can blame guns or the media all they want for tragic events, it doesn't change the fact that most of the blame falls on parents. Don't get me wrong, you can do everything right and your child may do something crazy, but look at a lot of these school shootings. How many got guns from their house that were unsecured? How many of these young people had known mental health issues that weren't properly addressed? Reports are that Lanza hadn't had any contact with his father in more than 2 years. All of those are failures of parents.

Parenting is a lifelong commitment. You don't just walk away from your kid if you get divorced. It's no surprise that when i was teaching, the most well adjusted kids had parents that were involved in their lives, whether they were gay, straight, married or divorced, and the ones that had parents who would rather go out and score some crack or hit the bars than help their kid with their homework had serious issues.

nardBlaster
12-21-2012, 9:37 AM
Check out how the media is painting this now:

NRA goes on offensive as Americans mourn school shooting (http://http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/21/us-usa-shooting-connecticut-idUSBRE8BI1BV20121221)

Where were the "Anti's go on the offensive BEFORE even a funeral was held" articles?

Wildhawk66
12-21-2012, 9:42 AM
The media answers to the enemy.

If LaPierre said the time was 9:45 AM eastern and left the podium, the headlines would say "NRA SAYS ITS TIME FOR MORE DEATH!".

Thats true, but it's one thing for the media to put words in his mouth, thats expected. It's another thing completely for them to be able to use his exact words against him.

As for Obama, he can't take any permanent steps against the 2nd Amendment without Congress. Millions of gun owners voted for him in the last election, and he needs their support if he wants any permanent changes in US gun regulation to stick. He won't get it if he signs an Executive Order at 3am establishing gun control by fiat.

He may not be able to directly attack the 2nd by himself, but he can certainly chip away at the edges with orders that wouldnt be blatantly unconstitutional, but that would make importing, buying and owning guns extremely onerous.

SilverTauron
12-21-2012, 9:43 AM
Because if we use that line of reasoning, how can we justify defending the 2A if we are so ready to decry what the 1A allows people to do?
.
My point is that the media isn't held to account for the consequences of their actions. If Gun Rights were treated like the media is today you could buy a full auto M4 from a vending machine and if the weapon fired from negligent behavior, the police would be banned from even citing you.




People can blame guns or the media all they want for tragic events, it doesn't change the fact that most of the blame falls on parents. Don't get me wrong, you can do everything right and your child may do something crazy, but look at a lot of these school shootings. How many got guns from their house that were unsecured? How many of these young people had known mental health issues that weren't properly addressed? Reports are that Lanza hadn't had any contact with his father in more than 2 years. All of those are failures of parents.

Parenting is a lifelong commitment. You don't just walk away from your kid if you get divorced. It's no surprise that when i was teaching, the most well adjusted kids had parents that were involved in their lives, whether they were gay, straight, married or divorced, and the ones that had parents who would rather go out and score some crack or hit the bars than help their kid with their homework had serious issues.

We're saying the same thing. Solving the problem of mass shootings requires addressing the core problem of people deciding to commit mass murder. The "WHY?" component of this means facing the consequences of our morally bankrupt media culture and taking steps to fix this. If the media faced the problem like gun owners would, we wouldn't need to even talk about it-because the media would correct themselves like gun owners do when one of "us" screws the pooch.

Yet, since the media is like a drunk 19 year old behind the wheel of her dad's tractor trailer rig, we'll probably need more extreme measures to resolve this-like government regulation. I hate myself for even typing that, but we see the adverse consequences of an unrestrained media all around us. Id rather see morally questionable media be harder to acquire then an accidental flick of a TV remote.

12voltguy
12-21-2012, 9:44 AM
He needs to go to CCW in schools!!~!!!!@

I ca CCW in schools today, cops can't:facepalm:

SilverTauron
12-21-2012, 9:49 AM
Thats true, but it's one thing for the media to put words in his mouth, thats expected. It's another thing completely for them to be able to use his exact words against him.
.

My point is that no matter what he said it would be used against him. If he completely capitulated to the Brady Lobby and said all assault weapons should be banned, they'd say " NRA SUPPORTS HANDGUN VIOLENCE". There's no appeasing someone who's already made up their mind that you're the enemy.


He may not be able to directly attack the 2nd by himself, but he can certainly chip away at the edges with orders that wouldnt be blatantly unconstitutional, but that would make importing, buying and owning guns extremely onerous.

Here's the flaw with that reasoning-he's in office today largely BECAUSE of gun owners. There's 90 million weapon owning Americans , nearly a third of our national population. Had all of them voted for Romney Obama would be on the street, and he knows it. He knows the best way to ensure anti-gun legislation has Congressional support is to divide the 30-30 owners from the handgun owners from the AR15 owners. He can do that by taking the stance that he's not anti gun mind you, he just wants to do something about the violence. That stance goes out the window the moment he signs an EO which affects all gun owners.

Skidmark
12-21-2012, 9:54 AM
A press conference that proscribed any questions from the press? What a farce.

I500X
12-21-2012, 9:58 AM
Overall a good response. I think CCW's on schools would be more cost-effective than police, but they were probably trying to appeal to the anti's.

As far as violent video games and movies, parents need to do a better job limiting the violence their kids are exposed to. I see 5 year olds watching stuff like Ironman or Lord of the Rings, which is full of violence. Maybe PG-13 should mean only people 13 or older can see the movie?

PM720
12-21-2012, 9:59 AM
For everyone that is dwelling on the video games part of the speech, Obama opened that door days ago when he annnounced the formation of the Biden commision.

Scott

13withinfinity
12-21-2012, 9:59 AM
Naturally, after the NRA speech the media is hounding over yet another shooting.

http://m.cbsnews.com/storysynopsis.rbml?pageType=general&catid=57560489&feed_id=999&videofeed=999

SilverTauron
12-21-2012, 10:03 AM
A press conference that proscribed any questions from the press? What a farce.

A Q&A session would be the real farce.

I'll save you the trouble and put the entire outcome of a Q&A session right here for you.

MEDIA STOOGE: "Mr LaPierre, Can you tell us how many babies you've killed today?"

A DIFFERENT MEDIA STOOGE: "Why did you kick out the righteous protester with the poster ? "

THE THIRD MEDIA STOOGE: "why can't you come to a common sense agreement with President Obama to encourage your membership to voluntarily disarm? "

Trenchfoot
12-21-2012, 10:04 AM
If civil rights demand equal measure of pesonal responsibility, then the 1st Amendment is in dire need of cultural and perhaps legal reform. Yup, I said it. If we're comfortable with background checks and CCW permits for carrying a firearm, perhaps we need to regulate movies and video games in the same way.

If that suggestion offends you, perhaps you should ask yourself why before typing a response to this.

I don't want to read anything into your comment that wasn't intended. Can you be more specific? Are you talking about banning certain types of media? Having background checks to purchase R rated films and violent video games?

I agree that the media in a way glorifies these psychos, but the media only gives us what we want to see. How many months did Foxnews keep Greta Van Susteren in Aruba to cover the Natalee Holloway disappearance, while ignoring the other young American women who disappear each day? The media knows that if they fail to cover a story like the Newtown massacre throughly and even sensationally, we will change the channel to find a network that will.

"We have met the enemy, and he is us."

smogcity
12-21-2012, 10:04 AM
Overall a good response. I think CCW's on schools would be more cost-effective than police, but they were probably trying to appeal to the anti's.

As far as violent video games and movies, parents need to do a better job limiting the violence their kids are exposed to. I see 5 year olds watching stuff like Ironman or Lord of the Rings, which is full of violence. Maybe PG-13 should mean only people 13 or older can see the movie?

Bingo. Card at theaters as you would at a bar. Not only at the ticket counter, but at EACH theater door at the multiplex..It's for the kids you know, think of the children! If parents want to play SAW for the kids at home, it's the same as giving them a cig and beer, bad parenting we can't fix..

Producers making R rated movies know that pre-teens and teens will attend. If, lord forbid, that revenue stream was cut off, they would make appropriate movies that the target demographic would want to see

elSquid
12-21-2012, 10:05 AM
I don't agree with the demonization of the media and video games, and I doubt the utility of an armed guard in every school, but that isn't the point.

It was a good statement. Making the school shield program a focus is a good strategy. Redirection of public discourse is the smart way to go.

Hopefully, behind the scenes the NRA is wielding a big stick and playing hardball with the politicians by giving them a history lesson...

"On November 8, we got the living daylights beat out of us, losing eight Senate races and fifty-four House seats, the largest defeat for our party since 1946....The NRA had a great night. They beat both Speaker Tom Foley and Jack Brooks, two of the ablest members of Congress, who had warned me this would happen. Foley was the first Speaker to be defeated in more than a century. Jack Brooks had supported the NRA for years and had led the fight against the assault weapons ban in the House, but as chairman of the Judiciary Committee he had voted for the overall crime bill even after the ban was put into it. The NRA was an unforgiving master: one strike and you're out. The gun lobby claimed to have defeated nineteen of the twenty-four members on its hit list. They did at least that much damage...." (Pages 629-630)

--William J. Clinton, My Life



I'm happy to be an NRA life member, and I think I get good value for the money that I've donated.

-- Michael

AEC1
12-21-2012, 10:05 AM
Cracks me up they way this board sways back and forth. I dont keep track of screen names, but it was not all that long ago (week or so) that the NRA was getting bashed all over the place. Now there are threads where we are lining up to perform felatio to the Wayne... I am sure that it is not the same people flip floping on the issue, but from it is strange the way group think takes over on ALL internet discussion boards.

SilverTauron
12-21-2012, 10:08 AM
I don't want to read anything into your comment that wasn't intended. Can you be more specific? Are you talking about banning certain types of media? Having background checks to purchase R rated films and violent video games?

I agree that the media in a way glorifies these psychos, but the media only gives us what we want to see. How many months did Foxnews keep Greta Van Susteren in Aruba to cover the Natalee Holloway disappearance, while ignoring the other young American women who disappear each day? The media knows that if they fail to cover a story like the Newtown massacre throughly and even sensationally, we will change the channel to find a network that will.

"We have met the enemy, and he is us."

We're saying the same thing.

The problem however is that we cannot lay all of this at the viewers feet. Media channels are corporations today, so they obviously are playing a game of one-up with each other. Facts of the situation which don't fit the sensationalist creed-like a civilian ending a spree shooting- consequently get left on the cutting room floor, which defeats the entire point of the 1st Amendment as it was established to create a media which held EVERYONE accountable for their actions, including themselves. If that were still the case Obama would be in the middle of an Impeachment hearing on Fast and Furious.

Whats happening now is that our media is editing news stories to generate entertaining news articles, so as to sell more airtime and papers. That's akin to a gun owner illegally converting a rifle to a full auto SBR.Yet the media aren't held to account for their lying and slanted reporting at all, while the ATF would jump on the illegal gun owner like a Mac Truck running over an expansion joint.

hnoppenberger
12-21-2012, 10:11 AM
I will just say this: I love me some Grand Theft Auto, but kids under 18 should not be allowed to play that stuff. 13 year olds should not be given the idea in their heads that taking out cops and getting away with it is a mission goal.
The rating systems should be enforced big time. Same goes with movies. Rated R means rated R, no one under 17 allowed. They already check ID's at the movies if you look under 25.

Ah yes, and liberalism should be outlawed.

pitbull30
12-21-2012, 10:12 AM
I like what he had to say. When I went to school as a kid there was a active duty cop in the school called a "school resource officer". My grandfather was also one in a city up north. When I talked to someone who now goes to the schools I went to as a kid he said they took the cops out.

I like how he made reference to semi-auto. I was going nuts listening to the media yell about " civilians don't need these semi auto machine guns"

Another good point. The president cutting the school budget. Maybe that's why the cops are no longer in the schools I used to go to.

Sports was another good example. How many of you have been to the staples center and seen the security posture there. Nuff said.

elSquid
12-21-2012, 10:13 AM
A press conference that proscribed any questions from the press? What a farce.

What would the point of having the NRA field questions about the 'fiscal cliff' and the impasse between Democrats and Republicans when it comes to tax increases and spending cuts?

:confused::confused::confused:

;)

-- Michael

Creeping Incrementalism
12-21-2012, 10:19 AM
RE: Video games.

I recall reading about a study that the Army did post WWII, it showed that a very large % of combatants had opportunities to shot at enemies - but didn't. The % was surprisingly large.

In response they completely revamped training procedures to break down the internal mental wall that kept soldiers from shooting. As a result the % of combatants who did take the shot (and many more shots) in Viet Nam and subsequent wars increased dramatically.

That study was by S.L.A. Marshall who has since been revealed to be a fraud by his protege, David Hackworth, and Marshall's his own son. The data on the percentage of troops firing their weapons in combat is one of the specific pieces of his research that no one believes anymore.

iloveyourmom562
12-21-2012, 10:24 AM
Darrell Scott!!! Darrell Scott!!!!!

bubbapug1
12-21-2012, 10:28 AM
I am not offended by it, I agree with it 100%. I shut off my cable about two years ago. I really didn't know I still got a few free TV channels until my daughter flipped through the remote a few weeks back. I was watching 60 minutes a few days ago and saw some of the shows they were promoting...Jesus, everyone had a gun in their hand and was shooting someone else. That kind of imprinting has an impact. The media certainly shares a bit of the blame (0.001%) for most of the increase in these types of shooting. So does the gun industry (0.001%). So does the car industry (0.001%) The oil industry (0.001%) and the computer industry (0.001%) as does Al Gore for Inventing the internet. (0.1%)

The shooter carries the remained of the blame.

Both Aurora and Sandy Hook had shooters who lived and breathed Call of Duty. Yet the Supreme Court struck down the California law outlawing sales to minors of violent video games due the the 1A.

Outlawing guns is also against the 2A, but for some reason its a different standard of proof entirely. Maybe because our industry doesn't pay enough bribes...that is the reality here.

Ultimately, there's a double standard regarding the 1st Amendment vs the 2nd. If a gun owners weapon is stolen and used in a crime, the gun owner is in some quarters held to be equally responsible as the perpetrator for allowing their weapon to fall into the wrong hands.

Yet, the media is given a pass when they air movies which glorify violence and criminal behavior for cheap ratings. Movie studios green light empty projects with little creative value and then wonder why kids emulate it. In the 50s and 60s kids emulated people like John Wayne and Clint Eastwood. Not the cleanest of guys mind you, but there was moral and creative value to their shows and movies. A 1970s show like Shaft wasn't clean and tidy, but there was moral value in it that you won't find with modern TV shows.

Today we're bombarded with ads and media that show people screwing each other over , acting petty & materialistic and which shows the bad guys winning over the good guys, and the media isn't held to account for ANY of it. Guns get stolen out of an unlocked car, gun owner is held responsible. Media makes a movie that glorifies torture and death,and no one calls them out for it when they get around to bleating the gun control mantra.

I remember the producer for the movie Pulp Fiction making an anti-gun statement before CT happened, and we all had a good laugh on this forum because the guy's gotten filthy rich off of gratuitous gun violence. If civil rights demand equal measure of pesonal responsibility, then the 1st Amendment is in dire need of cultural and perhaps legal reform. Yup, I said it. If we're comfortable with background checks and CCW permits for carrying a firearm, perhaps we need to regulate movies and video games in the same way.

If that suggestion offends you, perhaps you should ask yourself why before typing a response to this.

Cnynrat
12-21-2012, 10:30 AM
Yet to use the language of the anti's, what good is the 1A when its being used to kill people?

I'm a man who believes the government has no right to regulate half the stuff it does, including the 1st Amendment. Yet I share LaPierre's opinion that the media is to blame for a lot of the evil which happens in our society.

Rather then fulfill its mandate to serve as the watchdog of the public, the mainstream media today has sold its soul to idealogical socialism and commercial self interest. That's why a news channel which airs news segments demonizing AR15s and claiming "pass an AWB for our law enforcement" doesn't see the problem with playing a violent action movie like Heat right behind it showing bad guys using AR15s to kill cops. Big surprise that if you show lots of TV and movie events which show a lot of people being callously murdered, someone with mental health issues might decide its OK for them to do it too. Heck, normal people copycat each other all the time-that's why we have the saying of "keeping up with the Joneses".


The media's created a culture where everyone is just one ultra-violent massacre away from cultural immortality. Want to be instantly remembered forever? Take a weapon and kill lots of people in America, the media says. We'll put your name all over the place, blare your acts across HDTV screens constantly, and use your act of filth to make you famous. The shooter in CT would never be known to any of us if he lived a normal life, but because of his vile crimes his name will be forever enshrined in our culture. The shooter in Oregon will be remembered, but the law abiding citizen who helped stop the carnage won't be.

And then we wonder why people are killed en masse. Worse, the media has the nerve to play moralist afterward. The networks blare morally bankrupt material 24/7 365 days a year, and then have the stones to claim us law abiding gun owners are why bad things happen. Its like a spouse who commits adultery and then blames the wronged mate for violating their wedding vows.

To genuninely fix this problem not only requires a reform of our security measures ( buh bye gun free zones in schools and colleges!) , but a reform of how our media goes about its job. A gun owner his held responsible for acts with their weapon which result in bodily injury, death, or criminal behavior. The same rules should apply to Fox News, Paramount Studios and CNN.

Very well said.

And to those complaining about the focus on the media, gaming, violent movies, you should note that LaPierre did nothing more than point out the complicity of the media and entertainment industry as a significant cultural influence. Never once did he suggest that the government should step in and ban or censor violent games or movies. Like all of us, the NRA is well within their 1A rights to speak out and voice their opinion on these matters. One would hope that the leaders of these industries might think a little about what they are doing and put the best interests of society ahead of their own pecuniary interests for a change.

This is a very different reaction that what you get from the left, which is always to extend government power. Ban guns, ban sodas, ban transfats, ban this, ban that. The only solution they know is to force their will on others.

I thought the content of the speech was great. I love that they are contrasting their immediate action and putting our money towards this know with the government's plan to study the issue a while.

Mister Demeanor
12-21-2012, 10:33 AM
Check out how the media is painting this now:

NRA goes on offensive as Americans mourn school shooting (http://http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/21/us-usa-shooting-connecticut-idUSBRE8BI1BV20121221)

Where were the "Anti's go on the offensive BEFORE even a funeral was held" articles?MsNBC just did the same thing, convincing me that these vultures care little for school safety, but instead concern themselves giddily with the prospect of top copy.

I don't agree with the demonization of the media and video games, and I doubt the utility of an armed guard in every school, but that isn't the point.

It was a good statement. Making the school shield program a focus is a good strategy. Redirection of public discourse is the smart way to go. I see where you're coming from, and I agree about the video game as scapegoat approach. As for armed security gaurds on school grounds, I feel this should've been the selling point. Not one, or even a group of security personel will gaurantee children's safety from an armed individual. However, just one, well trained, armed gaurd would deter most of these maniacs, even those with a rifle, who are not generally prepared to encounter a level-headed pistolero, in defense of innocents~Thank you.

Wildhawk66
12-21-2012, 10:35 AM
My point is that no matter what he said it would be used against him. If he completely capitulated to the Brady Lobby and said all assault weapons should be banned, they'd say " NRA SUPPORTS HANDGUN VIOLENCE". There's no appeasing someone who's already made up their mind that you're the enemy.

Yes, again, I get your point. Your point is fine on its own, but since it was made as a direct response to my quote I will again point out that you are missing the my point of my posts whether or not you point makes sense on its own.


Here's the flaw with that reasoning-he's in office today largely BECAUSE of gun owners. There's 90 million weapon owning Americans , nearly a third of our national population. Had all of them voted for Romney Obama would be on the street, and he knows it. He knows the best way to ensure anti-gun legislation has Congressional support is to divide the 30-30 owners from the handgun owners from the AR15 owners. He can do that by taking the stance that he's not anti gun mind you, he just wants to do something about the violence. That stance goes out the window the moment he signs an EO which affects all gun owners.

Obama is a smart politician, there is no doubt about that. I disagree though that all 90 million gun owners are 100% against all aspects of gun control or the tightening of regulations related to background checks, importation, mag capacity, etc. I also disagree that Obama is so very concerned about what gun owners think. I think he will avoid doing anything that he thinks will nuke his party as was the case in 1994, but I do think he will toe right up to that line and do anything he can to further the antigun agenda.

I also think it was unwise of the NRA to make statements about how we cannot afford to wait, that we need action now, when that could very easily play into the current fear mongering, knee jerk legislative or executive order agenda.

CALI SHOT DOC
12-21-2012, 10:36 AM
I thought the speech was good overall. I liked how he pointed out everything that is protected by armed guards yet the children are left unprotected. I also liked how he didn't give the protestors any attention and just continued.

It's sickening that this tragedy has been turned into a gun rights battle by the president, Feinstein, media and anti-2nd amendment activists. It wasn't a so called "assualt weapon" that killed those kids, it was a mentally unstable man. If they are going to blame guns then why not blame his mother, brother and friends who should have seen the signs and got him help? Re-enacting the assault weapons ban isn't going to solve anything, it didn't prevent the Columbine shooting from happening....

Trenchfoot
12-21-2012, 10:36 AM
We're saying the same thing.

The problem however is that we cannot lay all of this at the viewers feet. Media channels are corporations today, so they obviously are playing a game of one-up with each other. Facts of the situation which don't fit the sensationalist creed-like a civilian ending a spree shooting- consequently get left on the cutting room floor, which defeats the entire point of the 1st Amendment as it was established to create a media which held EVERYONE accountable for their actions, including themselves. If that were still the case Obama would be in the middle of an Impeachment hearing on Fast and Furious.

Whats happening now is that our media is editing news stories to generate entertaining news articles, so as to sell more airtime and papers. That's akin to a gun owner illegally converting a rifle to a full auto SBR.Yet the media aren't held to account for their lying and slanted reporting at all, while the ATF would jump on the illegal gun owner like a Mac Truck running over an expansion joint.

The problem is that we don't want accurate news. We want the news to reinforce our worldview. People that only watch Foxnews or MSNBC don't care about facts, they just care about hearing about how the other side is destroying America.

voiceofreason
12-21-2012, 10:36 AM
Cracks me up they way this board sways back and forth. I dont keep track of screen names, but it was not all that long ago (week or so) that the NRA was getting bashed all over the place. Now there are threads where we are lining up to perform felatio to the Wayne... I am sure that it is not the same people flip floping on the issue, but from it is strange the way group think takes over on ALL internet discussion boards.

Now THAT'S funny!!!

Skidmark
12-21-2012, 10:41 AM
A Q&A session would be the real farce.

I'll save you the trouble and put the entire outcome of a Q&A session right here for you.

MEDIA STOOGE: "Mr LaPierre, Can you tell us how many babies you've killed today?"

A DIFFERENT MEDIA STOOGE: "Why did you kick out the righteous protester with the poster ? "

THE THIRD MEDIA STOOGE: "why can't you come to a common sense agreement with President Obama to encourage your membership to voluntarily disarm? "

:rolleyes:

No, the farce was L'Pierre calling a press conference and not taking questions. It's a farce when Obama does that, it was a farce when Bush did it, it's farcical when the chief lobbyist of the NRA does it. If you can't stand the heat of questions from the Press, then call the thing by its real name - a prepared statement - and feed it to the newswires.

Scarecrow Repair
12-21-2012, 10:42 AM
Rather then fulfill its mandate to serve as the watchdog of the public

That's the root failure right there -- in your thinking. The media has no mandate to serve anybody else's purpose any more than you or I or the gun industry. Business is business, and if they feel the best way to profit is hate guns, that is, literally, their business, not yours, not mine, nobody's but theirs.

If you include Hollywood and their action pictures, the same remarks apply. There is no hypocrisy in making money with profit the primary goal.

Your theme that you know how they should run their business is EXACTLY the same as statists everywhere. What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine too.

Nor*Cal
12-21-2012, 10:44 AM
i think speech was great...

but a week to think about what to say,
should of been better i thought.

I thought the speech was just okay and the delivery a bit poor. I guess with a week to prepare I had higher expectations. I feel they could have done a much better job. Not impressed and I just do not think it was powerful enough.

Brandsayer
12-21-2012, 10:46 AM
Here is a reposting of the transcript and video of the Press conference:

Press Conference Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r02rh34CXmI)

Press Conference Transcript (http://home.nra.org/pdf/Transcript_PDF.pdf)

It would be nice if the OP could include these links in his first post.

oldsmoboat
12-21-2012, 11:17 AM
A press conference that proscribed any questions from the press? What a farce.
I agree 100% with that tactic.
If the press asked questions they'd just make up lies and bash the NRA. By holding off on the questions it allowed the spotlight to remain on the message a little longer. And if that results in security/cops in schools and safer children, I am all for it.

The Soup Nazi
12-21-2012, 11:18 AM
I don't agree with blaming violent media for violence.

On the other hand, I'm going to have at least 5-6 months between my EAS this year and attending university. I would be glad to volunteer to stand guard at the high school a block away from where I live.

SilverTauron
12-21-2012, 11:43 AM
That's the root failure right there -- in your thinking. The media has no mandate to serve anybody else's purpose any more than you or I or the gun industry. Business is business, and if they feel the best way to profit is hate guns, that is, literally, their business, not yours, not mine, nobody's but theirs.

If you include Hollywood and their action pictures, the same remarks apply. There is no hypocrisy in making money with profit the primary goal.

Your theme that you know how they should run their business is EXACTLY the same as statists everywhere. What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine too.
I'm referring to the medias mandate as another check against a government gone mad.The 2nd Amendment safeguards against tyranny by martial force,and the 1st amendment safeguards against the tyranny of information control. Without state control of the media,a totalitarian regime cannot stand. If the media is editing the news to fit a pre-concieved notion,it cannot fulfill the intent of the 1As Constitutional purpose.Its akin to a situation where gun companies agree amongst themselves to not sell to civilians.You can't have a militia to defend the security of a free state if the militia can't buy arms.

putput
12-21-2012, 11:47 AM
This gallop poll shows support for most of those ideas...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/159422/stop-shootings-americans-focus-police-mental-health.aspx

Excelsior
12-21-2012, 11:52 AM
That they are folding and will be giving all of their money to the anti gun effort.

Take a pill :(

RobG
12-21-2012, 12:00 PM
Many seem to be missing NRA's message: Provide security for our kids in school RIGHT NOW. Unlike the politicians who want to b%tch and banter back and forth for months and finally decide that 10 round mags and an AR with no bayo lug is the solution.

As far as the video game stuff, the point was the hipocracy of the industry; make a sh*t ton of dough off the violence but then cry out when it actually happens.

Excelsior
12-21-2012, 12:05 PM
Full, clean video of speech and no commentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZb8EXUrQTo

elvinjones
12-21-2012, 12:09 PM
I'm watching it now, he's going after video games, with that logic he should be on to rap music next right? Too bad that the logic level really tanked there.

The larger cultural issue there imho is desensitization, which I think is a problem not only for a lot of regular folks, but for the .01%ers as well. However, when I look at the kids who have done mass shootings in the last decade, I don't see their problem as desensitization as much as being 'broken'. 'Broken' meaning drug/mental problems leading to majorly hurting society.

TBH I don't have a problem with guns being on a delay or require background checks. I know some people who may be able to acquire them who would be an incredible danger if they did. They probably won't care to acquire them *illegally*. It seems that the gun support culture is starting to recognize this now.

morfeeis
12-21-2012, 12:18 PM
r02rh34CXmI

Video is up for those who missed it (like me).

Mitch
12-21-2012, 12:29 PM
I agree 100% with that tactic.
If the press asked questions they'd just make up lies and bash the NRA. By holding off on the questions it allowed the spotlight to remain on the message a little longer. And if that results in security/cops in schools and safer children, I am all for it.

What would your reaction be if the Brady Center held such a press conference?

BakaLogic
12-21-2012, 12:35 PM
The speech was okay. However, blaming the entertainment industry for violence is just passing the blame off.

Is that what happened? I'll have to go back and watch. That's pretty disappointing though. It's basically the same tactic the gun control advocates use.

amd64
12-21-2012, 12:36 PM
Suggested solution was good. Drawing comparisons to how banks and politicians are protected was good.

Violence in entertainment and games should not have been included. That's just doing what the gun grabbers do; focusing on the few people who snap, and alienating and punishing everyone else who doesn't snap. Most video gamers and fans of violent entertainment won’t get the hypocrisy angle, they’ll just see it as an attack.

NRA could improve on selection of audience-facing people for delivering PR like this. I respect the speaker, and I understand he is in the appropriate position to deliver this level of statement. However, the delivery may have come across as stiff and preachy to the average fence sitter.

We are the choir, we know who's right and the facts are on our side. The challenge is to attract and pull the fence sitters over. The delivery of the message significantly matters in that objective.

Just my opinions, no more or less weight than anyone else's.

tackdriver
12-21-2012, 12:44 PM
Bad guy/good guy comment was good. Then he blows it by saying we need LEO's at every school. Kinda outta touch with reality I think....

HonkingAntelope
12-21-2012, 12:49 PM
I was disappointed as well.

A lot of preaching to the choir, and not much in the way of damage control.

This was a wasted opportunity to drive public the message that motivated, deranged madmen/madwomen are the problem here, not scary-looking guns. This was the chance to drive home the points that most of the "high scores" on the Let's Kill Everybody game were achieved without firing a single shot.

What about the fact that AWB did nothing to prevent Columbine (where IEDs that failed to go off were intended to cause most of the deaths and shooters' guns were merely Plan B). Or the fact that the absolute worst school massacre in US history was accomplished using lots of explosives and only a single shot? That a sufficiently smart (Sandy Hook PoS was no social butterfly, but if guns weren't an option, that's one guy we could count on to come up with a creative alternative that probably would've killed just as many people or more), and motivated mass murderers can and will succeed regardless of how many feel-good anti-gun laws the congress passes?

artoaster
12-21-2012, 12:52 PM
The points about violent entertainment are valid, most people will dismiss those points although I would never deny they have a negative effect on any human's subconcious regardless of people telling me they've had no ill effect on them.

Second, whether they ignore it or not, corporate media will never think that their over-reporting of tragic events contributes to more violence. They don't wish to understand cause and effect and will always say the cause lies elsewhere. Then when it does repeat they will always just report it again never looking at their own responsibility.

The press conference really had common sense unlike most conducted by politicians and others. The demonstrators looked completely out of context and appeared quite ridiculous with signs saying NRA had "blood on it's hands".

When I go to Bank of America there are armed guards in front of the door. I think to myself and have even made the remark to the guard something to the effect of "So, they've got you protecting the 1%, eh?"

If people cannot see guns in society, on police, in military, at banks, airports, sports stadiums, walking behind Tiger Woods at a PGA tourney and not see that real security protects lives other than their own children then let them continue blaming the NRA and guns for the news they see on their television that outrages them. Are they that blind?

Yes, I'm afraid so.

hiyabrad
12-21-2012, 12:53 PM
Completely disappointing and totally out of touch with the current reality. They could have really gotten some folks behind them but instead alienated them. EMBARRSSING FAILURE.

myk
12-21-2012, 12:56 PM
Christ man they spent 30 minutes talking about increasing or placing a firearms presence in schools. I'd wager that most people in America, pro 2A or not, does not want to see this happen, even though "I" am all for it. Most anti's who will actually take the time to hear this speech will only hear: "NRA wants more guns, guns, GUNS!"

They needed to point the blame towards criminals and the mentally unstable and other people who choose to illegally obtain guns, not Mortal Kombat and Splatter house (?!); way to sound totally out of step with the times, guys.

My advice to the NRA and while we're at it, the Republican party: get some 30-40 something year old people that majored in some speech and debate/public speaking during their education and get them to speak for them, because the best these groups are doing is boring their supporters while further alienating and angering everyone else. The NRA had the chance, the rare opportunity to CHALLENGE and DESTROY the misconceptions and misplaced fears about guns and gun ownership and they failed miserably!

Speech=sleep inducing FAIL...

maj0rglitch
12-21-2012, 1:01 PM
Going up there and reading a prepared statement is a major disappointment. It takes him away from his chance to offer a perception that NRA cares and will offer a sincere solution to the problem. Reading a script looks contrived and his bobbing head is a distraction.

natomasboy
12-21-2012, 1:02 PM
Video from PBS news hour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgu9f-qd_Uo

Johnnyfres
12-21-2012, 1:03 PM
They should have used mental health instead of going after video games and movies.

Although I do not think they were pointing the finger directly at the entertainment industry I think they were trying to point out that the media is so shallow minded all they look at is gun, guns, guns.

oldsmoboat
12-21-2012, 1:09 PM
What would your reaction be if the Brady Center held such a press conference?
I wouldn't care one way or the other.

myk
12-21-2012, 1:12 PM
They should have used mental health instead of going after video games and movies.

Although I do not think they were pointing the finger directly at the entertainment industry I think they were trying to point out that the media is so shallow minded all they look at is gun, guns, guns.

I would have emphasized that 1. gun ownership is a Constitutional right, 2. criminals do not obey gun laws, gun laws only leave innocent, "decent" people defenseless, 3. what gun laws ARE in place WORKED, but again criminals do not follow gun laws, only law abiding citizens, therefore pointing out the futility of increased gun control, as well as a host of other pro-gun talking points.

But no...they had to pick on Mortal Kombat and Splatterhouse, because 1992 was an awesome year that never got enough recognition...:rolleyes:

mag360
12-21-2012, 1:14 PM
Should have gone for background checks then call out all the lies and half truths by journalists name!!

morfeeis
12-21-2012, 1:19 PM
Just finished reading the speech. Good stuff. Wish I could have heard the live broadcast because of the protesters. "Get you hand out my pocket!!" Lol. Very well thought out speech though, sounds like a good plan of action too. Glad I joined up.


Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X

:D:D:D

phamkl
12-21-2012, 1:20 PM
Gotta be honest, posting a guard at every school is infeasible and had the same problem as gun control - it's a topical solution. The solution needs to comprehensively address the reason that mass shootings are occurring with some frequency in the past few years. What changed in the country?

Mental health is definitely the place to start. Crazies have always been around, firearms have been around and even semiauto has been around for a long time (not even mentioning the fact that full auto was unregulated for a time - and the worst violence then was among gangsters during, uh , PROHIBITION) but I would venture to say that the pathology behind modern psycopathy likely has changed with the times. Any "dialogue" needs to start with finding the root, not addressing a branch off.

hornswaggled
12-21-2012, 1:46 PM
I liked it. Now is not the time to try and defend AR15s to the public. Ma and Pa Kettle don't want to hear that sh*t. 20 babies are dead, something has to be done about it. The NRA are just a bunch of murdering basement dwellers with military grenade launching rifles, right? Wayne did not play into that and he didn't give the media a "cold dead hands!" soundbite to trash.

It's all about positioning. While Liberals appoint their commissions and try to sell America on more gun control, the NRA is ready TODAY to implement a plan that deep down most human beings instinctively know will work, hardening our schools. He didn't talk about gun rights, because guns are not the issue, and we're not having that debate. School safety is the issue, and now the talking points have changed. Anyone brining up gun control and not hardening our schools is going to sound disingenuous.

People know now that gun free zones alone aren't enough. The NRA are the first ones to presented an immediate solution to an urgent problem. People now have to discuss something WE want to discuss instead of just gun bans. After all, they're not against protection our children by any means necessary, ARE they? Good job, NRA.

Rossi357
12-21-2012, 1:53 PM
I won't get into the blame game.
Which video games children play with is a parenting issue. I don't want the gov getting involved in it.
As for school security....It you want to protect something, put a secure perimeter around it.

Excelsior
12-21-2012, 1:55 PM
Christ man they spent 30 minutes talking about increasing or placing a firearms presence in schools. I'd wager that most people in America, pro 2A or not, does not want to see this happen, even though "I" am all for it. Most anti's who will actually take the time to hear this speech will only hear: "NRA wants more guns, guns, GUNS!"

They needed to point the blame towards criminals and the mentally unstable and other people who choose to illegally obtain guns, not Mortal Kombat and Splatter house (?!); way to sound totally out of step with the times, guys.

My advice to the NRA and while we're at it, the Republican party: get some 30-40 something year old people that majored in some speech and debate/public speaking during their education and get them to speak for them, because the best these groups are doing is boring their supporters while further alienating and angering everyone else. The NRA had the chance, the rare opportunity to CHALLENGE and DESTROY the misconceptions and misplaced fears about guns and gun ownership and they failed miserably!

Speech=sleep inducing FAIL...

That's the one thing that fell very flat. LaPierre should have emphasized that the real problem ARE the evil whack-jobs, that action needs to be taken and given that reality, here is where the NRA can offer its expertise -- and then on with his plan.

Otherwise I think he did a superb job. The NRA is off and running on a plan to help and they are doing so before Christmas. President Obama and Company have yet to do a damned thing. I suspect (and hope) the NRA already has the next 10 moves planned out.

Excelsior
12-21-2012, 1:57 PM
Gotta be honest, posting a guard at every school is infeasible and had the same problem as gun control - it's a topical solution. The solution needs to comprehensively address the reason that mass shootings are occurring with some frequency in the past few years. What changed in the country?

Mental health is definitely the place to start. Crazies have always been around, firearms have been around and even semiauto has been around for a long time (not even mentioning the fact that full auto was unregulated for a time - and the worst violence then was among gangsters during, uh , PROHIBITION) but I would venture to say that the pathology behind modern psycopathy likely has changed with the times. Any "dialogue" needs to start with finding the root, not addressing a branch off.

Thankfully that's not your call. ;)

Anchors
12-21-2012, 1:59 PM
I'm buying my girlfriend a membership right now.
I was skeptical that they might sell us out today, but I was wrong and I plan to make reparations for that lack of trust with my wallet.
Throw some cash at the NRA-ILA specifically and the SAF, too.

Yeah, they scapegoated videos games. Who cares? Video games aren't going anywhere because the First Amendment is one of our few rights that is still fairly solid for now.
I love violent videos games, but the "Effects Theory" has never been proven.
I will say that I know a lot of people who got into guns from Call of Duty and Medal of Honor, but who cares? None of them are crazy, as far as I can tell.

chewietobbacca
12-21-2012, 2:00 PM
Disappointed.

I'm pro 2A in part to keep the government in check, but lets put armed government officials in our schools? Come on

And blaming things on video games and what not... let's not stoop to the antis please

Anchors
12-21-2012, 2:00 PM
Gotta be honest, posting a guard at every school is infeasible and had the same problem as gun control - it's a topical solution. The solution needs to comprehensively address the reason that mass shootings are occurring with some frequency in the past few years. What changed in the country?

Mental health is definitely the place to start. Crazies have always been around, firearms have been around and even semiauto has been around for a long time (not even mentioning the fact that full auto was unregulated for a time - and the worst violence then was among gangsters during, uh , PROHIBITION) but I would venture to say that the pathology behind modern psycopathy likely has changed with the times. Any "dialogue" needs to start with finding the root, not addressing a branch off.

The media.
They fuel the shooters quest to be remembered as monsters instead of the weak cowards they are.

Also, the peak of mass shootings in America was during Prohibition. Stop believing the media.

AnthonyD1978
12-21-2012, 2:01 PM
Wow, he used the same tactics the anti-gunners use and put the blame on video games and media. The video game industry self regulate themselves with ratings and leave it up the parents to monitor what kids play (imagine that!).

The video game industry has been attacked just as much as the pro-gun crowd. The video game/media industry was found by the courts to be protected by the constitution. A shame he defended our constitutional right by attacking another right.

Glad I waited to watch the NRA press conference before buying a NRA membership...

The rest of the speech was great but to demonize video games (and give really crappy examples by blurting out some game titles) really put me off. It reminded me of when the media uses "clips, automatic weapons, armor piercing hollow point, etc"....

AnthonyD1978
12-21-2012, 2:02 PM
deleted...double post.

El Toro
12-21-2012, 2:07 PM
I'm sorry that people will interpret things very differently. Wayne's comments about videos and movies, are mentioned only as a stimulus to the crazies. If you go back and read the speech you will see that he points out the hypocrisy of the entertainment Industry, corporations and the public who are invested in them, are supporters of violence directly. But, not once does he ask for changes or suggest a solution to that First Amendment issue. He is not suggesting on Edwin Meade ban on movies etc.

Instead he focuses on and offers an immediate solution to protect our children from crazies and the criminally insane via the school shield program. Go back and read it again and you will see that I am correct.

AnthonyD1978
12-21-2012, 2:12 PM
I'm sorry that people will interpret things very differently. Brady's comments about GUNS, are mentioned only as a stimulus to the crazies. If you go back and read the speech you will see that he points out the hypocrisy of the GUN Industry, corporations and the public who are invested in them, are supporters of violence directly. But, not once does he ask for changes or suggest a solution to that Second Amendment issue. He is not suggesting on Edwin Meade ban on GUNS etc.

Instead he focuses on and offers an immediate solution to protect our children from crazies and the criminally insane via the school shield program. Go back and read it again and you will see that I am correct.

See what I did there :D

Bottom line is he demonized them to focus the blame. It's seemed like a very very childish move to me.

Now people are going to call for a 10 day waiting period on games with a back ground check. Hey it's not a ban right....

I just think it was just poor form for him to day that. I've been involved in the game industry for a long time and his comments just smell of ignorance and scape goating. The game industry has been dealing with the crap in the courts for quite awhile....reminds of the same thing the anti's to the pro-gunners.

Excelsior
12-21-2012, 2:29 PM
Suggested solution was good. Drawing comparisons to how banks and politicians are protected was good.

Violence in entertainment and games should not have been included. That's just doing what the gun grabbers do; focusing on the few people who snap, and alienating and punishing everyone else who doesn't snap. Most video gamers and fans of violent entertainment won’t get the hypocrisy angle, they’ll just see it as an attack.

NRA could improve on selection of audience-facing people for delivering PR like this. I respect the speaker, and I understand he is in the appropriate position to deliver this level of statement. However, the delivery may have come across as stiff and preachy to the average fence sitter.

We are the choir, we know who's right and the facts are on our side. The challenge is to attract and pull the fence sitters over. The delivery of the message significantly matters in that objective.

Just my opinions, no more or less weight than anyone else's.

Yet it truly is part of the problem.

CessnaDriver
12-21-2012, 2:32 PM
They did a good job of pointing out the boggling illogic of how firearms are accepted to protect many things less precious then America's children in school which of course have almost no protection of value in most cases.

Anchors
12-21-2012, 2:38 PM
Wow, he used the same tactics the anti-gunners use and put the blame on video games and media. The video game industry self regulate themselves with ratings and leave it up the parents to monitor what kids play (imagine that!).

The video game industry has been attacked just as much as the pro-gun crowd. The video game/media industry was found by the courts to be protected by the constitution. A shame he defended our constitutional right by attacking another right.

Glad I waited to watch the NRA press conference before buying a NRA membership...

The rest of the speech was great but to demonize video games (and give really crappy examples by blurting out some game titles) really put me off. It reminded me of when the media uses "clips, automatic weapons, armor piercing hollow point, etc"....


At least join the Second Amendment Foundation if you refuse to join the NRA over that.
The SAF was behind Heller, McDonald, Ezell, etc.

But if you truly care, it wouldn't hurt to join both even if you don't agree with their method of deflection.

mosinnagantm9130
12-21-2012, 2:39 PM
Disappointing speech at best.

Throwing the 1A under the bus? Are you ****ting me right now? That method will only alienate a large segment of the population.

I do like the message of the Shield program though.

oldsmoboat
12-21-2012, 2:43 PM
I'm sorry that people will interpret things very differently. Wayne's comments about videos and movies, are mentioned only as a stimulus to the crazies. If you go back and read the speech you will see that he points out the hypocrisy of the entertainment Industry, corporations and the public who are invested in them, are supporters of violence directly. But, not once does he ask for changes or suggest a solution to that First Amendment issue. He is not suggesting on Edwin Meade ban on movies etc.

Instead he focuses on and offers an immediate solution to protect our children from crazies and the criminally insane via the school shield program. Go back and read it again and you will see that I am correct.
It's crazy that this went over many folks heads's here.

myk
12-21-2012, 2:57 PM
They did a good job of pointing out the boggling illogic of how firearms are accepted to protect many things less precious then America's children in school which of course have almost no protection of value in most cases.

I've been saying that all week. The freaking liquor store and the F Street have fully armed security that look like they could attend Pittsburgh Steelers tryouts but our schools are, for the most part, defenseless...

formerTexan
12-21-2012, 3:17 PM
I thought it was great. It provided solid points to build solutions, and didn't throw anyone under the bus. I believe its time for parents to really heed those "18+" warnings on videogames, and be aware of contents of movies that their children are watching. It is time to stop allowing schools and other "gun free zones" to be soft targets. The media continues to ignore, on a national scale, Chicago's record homicide year, self defense usage of firearms, and the latest in F&F, Gillet lying on the 4473, and yet can continue to push a ban on "assault weapons" when they know well that the previous ban didn't do anything.

Trenchfoot
12-21-2012, 3:21 PM
It's crazy that this went over many folks heads's here.

I don't think it went over people's heads, I just think it is an ineffectual argument. He is pointing out hypocrisy, but he is also blaming the media as the impetus of people wanting to commit these horrific acts. I think the statement was very carefully worded as to not actually come out as saying "it's the media's fault!", but to me the message was clear.

It's easy to blame something on a gun or a video game, but kids can't have access to either of them if they have parents who are involved in their lives, monitor what media they consume, and keep their guns locked up. Bottom line, if Adam Lanza's mother would have been a responsible gun owner and made sure her mentally ill son couldn't access her guns, there might be 28 more people in Newtown CT getting ready to celebrate Christmas this year.

When there is a gun related tragedy, we like to point out that "100 million gun owners did not commit a crime yesterday!". Well, there were 20 million people who play call of duty that didn't kill anyone yesterday either.

jorgyusa
12-21-2012, 3:40 PM
I finally have had time to read the transcripts and think LaPierre did a very good job of sticking to the important issues and proposing a solution that will work vs. the nonsense being spewed about by bloodthirsty political opportunists. We need to support his proposal because in the short term it will be the only thing that will work. We need armed/trained citizens protecting our kids from deranged child killers. They can be police, teachers, administrators, janitors, parents, volunteers, and/or national guard (as Bouncing Barbara has proposed).

With respect to some criticism I have seen in these posts on media violence, I think it has a significant influence on children, especially those with some mental problems. As Colonel Grossman has pointed out, kids massacring kids is a very new phenomenon and not been an issue in the past. I cannot explain what else could be the cause, other than brainwashing children with exposure to extreme violence through the media of TV, movies, games, and music. I think it is more graphic than ever before and desensitizes kids to mayhem and slaughter.

Jorgy

Trenchfoot
12-21-2012, 3:49 PM
With respect to some criticism I have seen in these posts on media violence, I think it has a significant influence on children, especially those with some mental problems. As Colonel Grossman has pointed out, kids massacring kids is a very new phenomenon and not been an issue in the past. I cannot explain what else could be the cause, other than brainwashing children with exposure to extreme violence through the media of TV, movies, games, and music. I think it is more graphic than ever before and desensitizes kids to mayhem and slaughter.

Jorgy

But who is at fault for their kids watching violent movies or playing violent video games?

jorgyusa
12-21-2012, 3:59 PM
But who is at fault for their kids watching violent movies or playing violent video games?

Parents, teachers/educators, and the industry that markets the stuff. It is not the fault of the kids.

ElDiabloRobotico
12-21-2012, 4:11 PM
if it's not the gun but the gunman, how is it the game not the gamer?

artoaster
12-21-2012, 4:12 PM
The headline and tone of most articles reporting on the NRA press conference are designed to look like:

The NRA wants more guns

The NRA wants guns at schools

The NRA blamed the media and video games

The NRA wouldn't take questions

The NRA appeared angry.

Not that that is a bad thing it's true. Accept it!

Best thing I've seen today on internet was from a student Buddhist monk who studys with Thich Nhat Hahn who wrote a post mortem letter to the dead perpetrator where he said more gun checks won't work. Understanding is what is needed most. Amen to that.

CessnaDriver
12-21-2012, 4:17 PM
I've been saying that all week. The freaking liquor store and the F Street have fully armed security that look like they could attend Pittsburgh Steelers tryouts but our schools are, for the most part, defenseless...

This idiot fantasy of gun free zones that they are some kind of safe islands of a liberal utopia where children are safe has got to end.
The blood is as much on the hands of those that support gun free zones as it is the criminal is my view.

Time to welcome this new national debate and start shoving the idiot logic of the antis back down their throats.

If the NRA had it's way most if not all of those kids would still be alive.

Trenchfoot
12-21-2012, 4:24 PM
Parents, teachers/educators, and the industry that markets the stuff. It is not the fault of the kids.

It's not a teacher's job to control the media your kids consume. In fact, as a former teacher I would have had 25 parents in my class after school berating me if I told their kids what to watch/play or what not to watch/play. Do you really want a government entity telling your kids what is and is not ok to watch or play?

Last time I checked, movies had a ratings system and so do most video games. If you want to blame the guy at bestbuy for selling a game labeled as for 18 and up to a minor, ok, but blaming the game companies is just as bad as blaming the NRA for making shooting look so fun.

Ultimately parents need to be responsible for what media their kids consume and their access to family guns. I'm not going to give up Tarentino movies or my guns just because parents don't want to do their jobs.

SilverTauron
12-21-2012, 7:13 PM
I would have emphasized that 1. gun ownership is a Constitutional right, 2. criminals do not obey gun laws, gun laws only leave innocent, "decent" people defenseless, 3. what gun laws ARE in place WORKED, but again criminals do not follow gun laws, only law abiding citizens, therefore pointing out the futility of increased gun control, as well as a host of other pro-gun talking points.

But no...they had to pick on Mortal Kombat and Splatterhouse, because 1992 was an awesome year that never got enough recognition...:rolleyes:

If you made a speech like this, here's what the media would say:

1)20 dead kids means we should ignore/change/burn the Constitution.
2)A law against murder doesn't stop it from happening, but we still ban it.
3)Our gun laws are too weak because unlike Europe and Australia, people can legally own and buy guns in America without explaining themselves to the government.

You cannot impose enlightenment on someone determined to be ignorant. No matter what LaPierre said today, the media would have slanted his speech to make it seem like he's some sort of fundamentalist zealot. If they hired Kim Kardashian to deliver the speech the NRA would still get pilloried as a terrorist organization resorting to sex appeal to sell gun violence. So long as the anti's own the press, no amount of logical argument is going to save the day.

Flipdude
12-21-2012, 7:23 PM
The NRA is offering a free service to safeguard schools which involves well-trained NRA members...what is the media blabbering that it's going to cost $6.7 million or billion dollars? I just heard a news conference today from our SDPD official about NRA's proposal to have armed guards in schools and he said that "it ain't gonna happen". Maybe he didn't read the transcript but it proposed that qualified NRA members will be there to patrol the schools and not solely LEOs by themselves. The SDPD's solution is that the ability to see (in their patrol cars) from remote camera's installed in schools, county buildings, banks and such will help solve the problem. I was thinking to myself, GREAT! now that everyone knows this, the bad guys will take out the cameras first so the police can't see what is happening! They can't monitor every camera from every school all at once. By the time they are alerted to the outage, it would've been way too late to prevent another massacre.

I'm pretty sure, that some of the grieving parents (or their relatives) from Sandy Hook elementary are NRA members but maybe are not allowed to speak up and they also need time to grieve for their loss. I would hope that when they do get the chance to be heard, that they will stand by Mr. La Pierre's proposal of having armed guards in schools. IMHO, the Obama administration has killed more of our children than any gun laws supported by the NRA by sending our young troops through this ongoing senseless war with countries who could care less about us and our policies. I was hoping that Mr. La Pierre would bring that up today because it probably would've made a bigger impact with the anti-gun public.

Excelsior
12-21-2012, 7:35 PM
No matter how you spin it, LaPierre did a very credible job. He didn't knock it out of the park but I'm not sure that doing so would have been appropriate even if he could have.

My only concern is that he should have underscored a need to treat and in some cases incarcerate our nation's whack-jobs as job #1. From there the NRA will step up to the bar using its own expertise and develop/fund a safe shield program for schools. yada, yada, yada.

The most superb part of what he outlined is the NRA is now off and running. It has a direction in which to move and it should be able to move fairly efficiently. The government on the other hand won't start for weeks and it will be very slow moving.

The NRA should be using the development of this plan and ultimately the plan itself as proof that it's "all in" with regard to safeguarding our children. That will give the NRA great credibility when defending our gun rights.

Bobio
12-21-2012, 7:41 PM
Speech will back fire against gun owners.

otteray
12-21-2012, 8:12 PM
Speech will back fire against gun owners.
And what fortune cookie did you pull that from?
Poll-Majority-support-NRA-Plan (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/12/21/Poll-Majority-support-NRA-Plan)