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View Full Version : Odd response in a gun shop (updated with name) over the weekend


ItsPhipps
08-13-2007, 6:50 PM
So over the weekend I drove out to Reno for the last weekend of Hot August Nights. My uncle lives out there and when we were out looking at cars we were talking about guns and how he was thinking of getting one for CCW. Anyways we ended up going to a gun shop in town that he knew of and did some looking around. As we were looking I saw a PT145 which I had ordered locally but nobody around here in Modesto had one on the shelves for me to fondle. Naturally I asked the lady behind the counter if I could see the PT145 and said to a fella next to me that I had ordered one and had not held one yet so I was curious. As she was about to hand me the gun the fella asked where I ordered it from and I said California. All of a sudden she jerked the handgun back and locked it away behind the counter like I was a multi felon super criminal. I felt like people were staring and trying to avoid me or something. She then said I could not touch any of their guns and that I was pretty much not welcome in their store. There were some things that happened afterward as I spoke with the owner, arguing back and forth, and basically it came down to CA officials bullying them around was their excuse. He then more or less kicked me out of his store from there and they obviously won't be getting any business from my uncle. So has anybody else had a similar experience in Nevada gun shops?

BTW I just went by the gun shop today (Dave Lake's) and saw my gun. He even let me hold it and didn't kick me out. It feels better then I expected and I can't wait to see how it shoots. Seven more days :D

-UPDATE-
The name of the gun shop that I stopped at is Silver State Arms. Here is their brief and boring website http://www.silverstatearms.com/. If anybody is heading that way you should stop in to visit. If not then the phone # is on the website. I'd appreciate if you guys gave them a call to let them know how we feel about the way they conduct business. For that matter we could call all the places that give us grief or treat us like criminals just because we're from California.

thedrickel
08-13-2007, 6:53 PM
My last response before leaving the store would have been "I guess you don't want to see my 01 FFL then?"

LAK Supply
08-13-2007, 7:28 PM
I've also had that problem..... If you go to the gun store on the main drag in Carson City you'll find (if they still have it up, and I would be they do) a big sign that says something to the effect of "No sales to Californians."

The DOJ harasses the dealers over there.... they are scared $h1tless of getting targeted by another state's thugs. I can't wait to be a Wyoming resident!! :D

slick_711
08-13-2007, 7:36 PM
Wow... thats... ridiculous.

MedSpec65
08-13-2007, 7:42 PM
I've heard of CHP around the State line pulling over CA drivers with gun decals and looking for Hi-cap mags, parts and other stuff from Nevada. Do they have similar purchase laws? Ten-day wait, etc?

slick_711
08-13-2007, 7:45 PM
I've heard of CHP around the State line pulling over CA drivers with gun decals and looking for Hi-cap mags, parts and other stuff from Nevada. Do they have similar purchase laws? Ten-day wait, etc?

That's harassment and discrimination. And no, no ten day wait.

LAK Supply
08-13-2007, 7:49 PM
They don't have similar laws.... you can walk in and walk out that hour if everything is flowing right. They just make a phone call and don't require a wait. If you have a Nevada CCW you are exempt from the background check and just cash & carry, at least for now.

They have no AWB, no magazine restrictions, Class III, shall-issue; basically all of the things that we don't have (or have) here.

Fjold
08-13-2007, 7:53 PM
I've heard of CHP around the State line pulling over CA drivers with gun decals and looking for Hi-cap mags, parts and other stuff from Nevada. Do they have similar purchase laws? Ten-day wait, etc?

I'm getting ready to call BS on these type of reports. Everytime I see someone mention this I ask:

Does anyone know of one person (by name) who has been pulled over in California after purchasing anything at an out of state gunshow or gunshop?

Hoop
08-13-2007, 8:00 PM
The DOJ harasses the dealers over there.... they are scared $h1tless of getting targeted by another state's thugs. I can't wait to be a Wyoming resident!! :D

Yeah, I don't even bother looking at guns at the Reno Show, just ammo.

scootergmc
08-13-2007, 8:16 PM
I'm getting ready to call BS on these type of reports. Everytime I see someone mention this I ask:

Does anyone know of one person (by name) who has been pulled over in California after purchasing anything at an out of state gunshow or gunshop?


I've called BS before and never been provided anything.

Two Shots
08-13-2007, 8:41 PM
I may put some gun stickers on my truck and head to Reno to bust this Urban legend.

h.bowman
08-13-2007, 8:53 PM
The cops do run a checkpoint on CA 127 just north of Baker in the months prior to July in search of fireworks. If you refuse a search they call in a search warrant and comb your car over real close.

Fate
08-13-2007, 8:56 PM
Lesson learned: Don't divulge your state of residence in an out of state gun shop and you won't get any BS grief.

Paratus et Vigilans
08-13-2007, 8:57 PM
I can't speak for Reno, but I go into gun stores in Vegas all the time (I've got a condo over there) and they treat me just fine. I usually get around to telling them I live in CA and own property in NV and we just have the usual kind of gun store conversation (the good kind, not the idiot behind the counter who knows everything kind).

Of course, I'm not a mall ninja and I don't wear my camo BDU's into the store, so that might have SOMETHING to do with how I get treated. Plus, I'm 6'2" and 350 and don't get jacked around most places I go, so that could factor in as well. Whatever the reason, I appreciate getting respect, and give it in kind. I also tend to ruin the day for the few unfortunates who do decide that jacking me around is a good idea. :D

icormba
08-13-2007, 8:59 PM
ItsPhipps,
If I wasn't a Californian I'd swear your story was as funny as h$LL, but I am and it's not very funny. :( :mad:

Bummer!

Paratus et Vigilans
08-13-2007, 9:02 PM
But the cops do run a checkpoint on CA 127 just north of Baker in the months prior to July in search of fireworks. If you refuse a search they call in a search warrant and comb your car over real close.

Just out of curiosity, what do they put down for "probable cause" on their search warrant application? "Refused voluntary search"? That's not going to get them a warrant. Besides, can you imagine a judge getting a call from some officers on a roadside wanting a warrant to search a car for . . . fireworks? The judge would laugh at them and hang up. Sorry, I've got to call BS/urban (rural?) legend on this one, in the absence of someone saying, "It happened to me." :D

Yankee Clipper
08-13-2007, 9:33 PM
well one good thing about nevada is if the gun stores turn you down the bunny ranches won't.not that i would know.don't ever leave mad
If you picked up something at one of the 'bunny ranches' over there you'd definitely need a CCW when you got back here!

AJAX22
08-13-2007, 9:41 PM
One of these days I'm going to road trip to some of those nevada gun stores to see how CA residents get treated first hand.

I'll bring a fat wad of 100$ bills some platinum plastic and my 03 FFL,

I'd love a few S&W's and some BHP's..... sigh.... once I get over black rifle disease......

Hoop
08-13-2007, 9:50 PM
Lesson learned: Don't divulge your state of residence in an out of state gun shop and you won't get any BS grief.

Californian's aren't popular in certain areas of the South either, I took to calling myself a Canuck when I was in certain parts ;)

WokMaster1
08-13-2007, 9:59 PM
I just got back from a road trip up there. I do miss the high desert. Anyway, any gun shop in Nevada that readily gets intimidated by Cal DOJ should not get my business. Pretty certain that the store owner does not wear the pants in the family, too, while I'm at it.

Sampachi
08-13-2007, 10:00 PM
One of these days I'm going to road trip to some of those nevada gun stores to see how CA residents get treated first hand.

I'll bring a fat wad of 100$ bills some platinum plastic and my 03 FFL,

I'd love a few S&W's and some BHP's..... sigh.... once I get over black rifle disease......

Expect to recieve similar treatment. It's like they've had the fear of God put into them in regards to dealing with Californians. I've even had a few refuse to accept my C&R. Not all of them mind you, but a few have.

Santa Cruz Armory
08-13-2007, 10:04 PM
I say screw it! Whats the name of the gun shop?? out that *****hole here for everyone to see. He wont get anymore business from these CGers :mad:

I'm headed up there in less than two weeks and I LOVE situations like that! I'll make a detour just to stop by this shop and be a ***** to them on your behalf... :cuss:

CRTguns
08-13-2007, 10:49 PM
I think it's bizarre guns- a place next door to a guitar shop by the same name.

I had the same guy do the same thing to me there 2 years ago in Reno. I was there for a trade show for our distributor, Acusport. The guy barked at me, told us to leave. I offered to show him my FFL too!

The guy is obviously derranged. I was with a freind of mine- Dan McLeod (Joe Gunguy) who was PD there 15 years ago- he called his old buddy, still in the department, asked him to harrass the shop. (in nevada, there's no DOJ- local PDs operate in much the same manner.

There's a Reno shop- out on Virginia ave I think... something like American Arms- they are waaaay cool- we went in, told them- "we're californian!" they said "no problem- come play with some real guns!" and handed me an AK.

E Pluribus Unum
08-13-2007, 10:52 PM
Does anyone know of one person (by name) who has been pulled over in California after purchasing anything at an out of state gunshow or gunshop?

Happens all the time my friend... I got pulled over in Baker one time... I asked why he pulled me over, he said "I'm checking for fireworks, do you have any?" I said no. He asked if I minded if he looked in back. I did not feel like getting a traffic ticket for a "made up" infraction so I let him search and I was on my way.

They pull over trucks and trailers near Baker around new years and the fourth without PC just to check for fireworks. I am sure if they find fireworks all of a sudden the cause was "speeding" or "weaving" or any other non-provable "offense" that gives them PC.

Most police officers will "bend" the rules to catch bad guys....

aplinker
08-13-2007, 11:59 PM
Last time I was in Reno I went to a couple of gun shops.

Silver State Arms cut me a huge break on a bunch of WWB (<<WalMart). They also pointed me in the right direction to go shooting. Nice people. They let me handle anything I wanted, too. Oh, and I told them I was visiting from CA when I first got there -- also mentioned it was nice to see a free state shop.

I did call around a few places before I went there. One place I called (without my even mentioning CA -- maybe caller ID) told me they didn't sell mags to people from CA. I only asked about ammo.

Shane916
08-14-2007, 12:16 AM
Only been to 1 gun shop in Nevada and they offered us high caps :) I kindly declined though.

Sorry to hear about your misfortune though :(

E Pluribus Unum
08-14-2007, 12:38 AM
Only been to 1 gun shop in Nevada and they offered us high caps :) I kindly declined though.

Sorry to hear about your misfortune though :(

I call BS.... which one? :)

I am looking for work there off and on.... and I hide my California residence like a scarlet letter.

saki302
08-14-2007, 1:05 AM
I call BS on that too. Refusal to submit to a search is not probable cause. Unless they SEE something int he course of their stop, they can do nothing, and there is no cause for a warrant to be issued either. They can only legally hold you long enough to write a ticket and send you on your way.
I got all this info from my friend who is a retired cop.

He did tell me one 'loophole'. An officer may inspect essential running gear on your vehicle- i.e. your brakes. So if he wants to check your brake lights/turn signals, he can, and in the course of doing so, if he sees something under your seat, you are screwed.

By probable cause because of a refusal to submit to search? Want to see how quick an average attorney could get that evidence tossed in court?

-Dave

But the cops do run a checkpoint on CA 127 just north of Baker in the months prior to July in search of fireworks. If you refuse a search they call in a search warrant and comb your car over real close.

E Pluribus Unum
08-14-2007, 1:31 AM
I call BS on that too. Refusal to submit to a search is not probable cause. Unless they SEE something int he course of their stop, they can do nothing, and there is no cause for a warrant to be issued either. They can only legally hold you long enough to write a ticket and send you on your way.


You missed the whole point. He cannot simply pull you over. He must see you commit a crime or see some probable cause to pull you over (in theory). The police cannot simply start pulling over random vehicles; its not legal.




I got all this info from my friend who is a retired cop.

I have gotten more misinformation from police than any other source. Partly because one would expect it to be accurate. Police are not lawyers; they know what is told to them in their classes and what they have picked up along the way. They know way more than the average citizen, but not as much as a mediocre attorney.


He did tell me one 'loophole'. An officer may inspect essential running gear on your vehicle- i.e. your brakes. So if he wants to check your brake lights/turn signals, he can, and in the course of doing so, if he sees something under your seat, you are screwed.

Its not that simple... he cannot just pull you over for an "inspection" and go through your vehicle. He can inspect tires, brakes, and lights from outside the vehicle. He cannot simply pull you over and force you out.


By probable cause because of a refusal to submit to search? Want to see how quick an average attorney could get that evidence tossed in court

Did you watch this on people's court? :) Comeon man.... EVERY time I get pulled over, I record it now... I have been pulled over for "weaving" and then after I got smart... all of a sudden they were writing me a speeding ticket. I have learned... you have to guage being nice and incriminating yourself.

I know the ins and outs of when they can search and when they cannot. I could have done the dance and played that game. If I had refused I probably would have walked away with a speeding ticket eventhough i was not speeding. If I know nothing is in there I might as well let him poke his head in the back and look. It was not worth the PITA.

Most the time I have the cajones to stand up to it and not allow the search... but 60 miles from BFE in Baker, Ca. on a Saturday with a car full of people is not the time to be dragged in front of a commissioner on a traffic ticket.

Even if a crappy lawyer can get you out of it.. it will cost a couple thousands... even if you win... do you really win? The cop cost you $1500-$2500 in court fees and he got some overtime for it...


In that isolated instance it was easier just to put up with the minute abuse of power he was exploiting to make his state "safer".

tom_92673
08-14-2007, 1:55 AM
On "Cops" they stop people all the time they suspect of drug trafficing, then if they refuse a search, they call in a drug sniffing dog and it goes around the car. Then if it smells something, they have probable cause to search the car. How is this legal? They usually hold the guy until the k9 unit can come to the scene.

allenst65
08-14-2007, 2:03 AM
I call BS on that too. Refusal to submit to a search is not probable cause. Unless they SEE something int he course of their stop, they can do nothing, and there is no cause for a warrant to be issued either.

Hearing some of these stories, I'd call BS too ... that is until you read about some of the things our LE personnel have actually done for fireworks stings.

http://hometown.aol.com/allenst/Firespy/Firespy.jpg

Cops don't need to make up pc when they have their own 'eyewitness' over the state lines. Speaking of which, what are the legalities for having a CA officer over state lines taking down license plates to generate the pc ?


"Unnoticed in a rental car parked along a busy street, the fireworks cop is interested only in the customers with California license plates.
By cell phone, she relays the plate numbers and vehicle descriptions to officers waiting across the state line in San Bernardino County. Near the desert town of Baker, they stop those vehicles, confiscate their incendiary loads and issue tickets that can turn the drivers into criminals, even felons."

http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_D_fireworks26.1e0bc2d.html


"As part of the recent crackdown, officers from the San Bernardino County sheriff's office parked near fireworks stores in Pahrump and used binoculars to spot vehicles with California license plates. Those vehicles then were stopped after they were driven back across the state line with illegal fireworks inside, Ells said."

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Jul-01-Sat-2006/news/8269141.html

E Pluribus Unum
08-14-2007, 2:34 AM
I am not a lawyer, I am not a legal expert... I am simply a computer tech who likes to fight his traffic tickets. I am of the following opinion:

Cops don't need to make up pc when they have their own 'eyewitness' over the state lines. Speaking of which, what are the legalities for having a CA officer over state lines taking down license plates to generate the pc ?

That does not generate PC. It is not a crime to buy fireworks in Nevada. Those police officers in Nevada have no special rights unless LEOSA comes into play. Not sure on this, you would have to check with an attorney. At least as of a few years ago... California police officers in Nevada have no more legal authority than anyone else. That may have changed.

Regardless, getting the license plate is not enough. It is not a crime in Nevada for a California resident to buy the fireworks. The only time seeing them buy it in Nevada would be PC in California is if it is a felony. Misdemeanors MUST be witnessed by the arresting officer (with a few exceptions but fireworks is not one of them).

What this means is that because posession of illegal fireworks is a misdemeanor, a California peace officer would have to:

1) SEE you buy the fireworks.
This does not mean see your car outside the fireworks store or see you leaving the store with bags. After all, you could just be buying a bunch of legal fireworks like picolo petes. He would have to see that you had illegal fireworks.

2) He would have to tail you back to California.
This means the whole way without losing sight of you. He would need to establish that you did not give the fireworks to someone else or set them off for that matter. He has to follow you.

3) Watch you cross the border.
It does not become a crime until you cross the California state line. Only then can he pull you over and charge you with a crime and search the vehicle; until that time you have done nothing wrong.

This is not a felony people. With felonies, only probable cause that a felony occured is required to detain and arrest/search. On misdemeanors they must have seen it happen. Seeing you in Nevada buying fireworks, and then seeing you 45 minutes later in California may be probable cause to pull you over, but it is not PC to search your vehicle, nor is it PC to arrest you for any crime.

What happens in these cases is the CHP pulls the guy over and because the police know a whole lot more about your rights than you do, they ask the right questions to get you to incriminate yourself or consent to a search.

The police use thier knowledge to make drug dealers, and criminals incriminate themselves all of the time and that is good because it gets those dirt bags off the street. The flip side is if you buy illegal fireworks and you don't know your rights... you might end up with a ticket. :)



"Unnoticed in a rental car parked along a busy street, the fireworks cop is interested only in the customers with California license plates.
By cell phone, she relays the plate numbers and vehicle descriptions to officers waiting across the state line in San Bernardino County. Near the desert town of Baker, they stop those vehicles, confiscate their incendiary loads and issue tickets that can turn the drivers into criminals, even felons."

"As part of the recent crackdown, officers from the San Bernardino County sheriff's office parked near fireworks stores in Pahrump and used binoculars to spot vehicles with California license plates. Those vehicles then were stopped after they were driven back across the state line with illegal fireworks inside, Ells said."

This is easily solved....... go to Pahrump on your WAY to vegas.... they wont follow you deep into Nevada.... waste of time...

Ford8N
08-14-2007, 6:20 AM
Even if a crappy lawyer can get you out of it.. it will cost a couple thousands... even if you win... do you really win? The cop cost you $1500-$2500 in court fees and he got some overtime for it...






That's not right and all the more reason to leave this s**thole state! I vote, write letters, make calls and it doesn't matter. The state is no longer part of the U.S.:(

Piper
08-14-2007, 6:47 AM
It could be fun to blow the forward observers cover and let everyone know that someone is watching them. What are they going to do arrest you for 148 PC? Sorry, wrong state, nice try though. Have a nice day.

Fjold
08-14-2007, 6:57 AM
Happens all the time my friend... I got pulled over in Baker one time... I asked why he pulled me over, he said "I'm checking for fireworks, do you have any?" I said no. He asked if I minded if he looked in back. I did not feel like getting a traffic ticket for a "made up" infraction so I let him search and I was on my way.

They pull over trucks and trailers near Baker around new years and the fourth without PC just to check for fireworks. I am sure if they find fireworks all of a sudden the cause was "speeding" or "weaving" or any other non-provable "offense" that gives them PC.

Most police officers will "bend" the rules to catch bad guys....


Was this after you made a purchase at a gunshow? The thing that I'm calling BS on is people buying high capacity magazines at Nev gunshows and getting pulled over in California because the CA police know that they did this.


I go to Nevada probably 10 times a year and I've never been pulled over and I have CA plates that say "4VARMNT"

M1A Rifleman
08-14-2007, 6:59 AM
I saw a similar situation at the Reno show about 5-years ago when someone tried to buy high cap mags and tried to pay with a credit card and CA ID.

My odd uncle also lives in Carson. His opinion is that Californians are not much appreciated in Nevada -.

tenpercentfirearms
08-14-2007, 7:32 AM
I was quite surprised when we visited a bunch of gun shops in February while we were at the Acusport Show. Everywhere we went they were nice to us and most of the time we told them we were from California. I liked the guys at the big chain store Sportsman's Warehouse I think it was. Those guys were extremely nice and let me look at all sorts of goodies behind the counter. I commented how I had heard a lot of shops are openly hostile to Californians and they said they sell a lot of accessories, ammo, and even transfer a lot of guns for PRK residents. They had the right idea.

It is funny how if these rude gun shop owners were smart they would just treat PRK residents like everyone else. Just tell them what they can and can't buy and relax. I guess what would require them to know CA law and that is probably the problem. They are probably scared of it and would just rather act like idiots. If I were there I would just get the link to the safe handgun list and I could care less if a PRK resident bought high caps. I know better that if the DOJ called me wanting to bust me that I committed no crime by selling to a PRK resident and I would tell them so.

Fear and intimidation is all this state has. It is sickening.

And FJold and others who doubt what the DOJ will go through, I have been pulled over and searched for high caps.

I was driving the speed limit and suddenly I got pulled over. I asked the CHP why they stopped me and they said it was because we ran your plates and saw you had over 30 long guns registered to your name (that isn't even the AWs I have registered) so we wanted to search you. I said I don't consent to a search so they waited an hour until the K9 showed up. After the K9 didn't smell anything then their supervisor showed up with the BATF and a 5th Federal District Search Warrant for my vehicle. It even had our GPS coordinates stated as the search address!

They took me out of my car at gun point and tore it all to hell. They even deflated my tires and searched inside of them. I won't mention how they searched me.

So don't even go to Nevada if you have guns in your name. They will bust you.

jkasandiego
08-14-2007, 7:46 AM
Exactly the same treatment i got when i went to one of the Vegas gun stores.
When they find out that you're from KALI they don't want your business.
But the treatment i got when I went to West Virginia Gander Mountain was the opposite.

M1A Rifleman
08-14-2007, 8:18 AM
And FJold and others who doubt what the DOJ will go through, I have been pulled over and searched for high caps.

I was driving the speed limit and suddenly I got pulled over. I asked the CHP why they stopped me and they said it was because we ran your plates and saw you had over 30 long guns registered to your name (that isn't even the AWs I have registered) so we wanted to search you. I said I don't consent to a search so they waited an hour until the K9 showed up. After the K9 didn't smell anything then their supervisor showed up with the BATF and a 5th Federal District Search Warrant for my vehicle. It even had our GPS coordinates stated as the search address!

They took me out of my car at gun point and tore it all to hell. They even deflated my tires and searched inside of them. I won't mention how they searched me.

So don't even go to Nevada if you have guns in your name. They will bust you.

REALLY??? There must be more to this story. Where were you, HWY, etc. ?
IMOP, this would appear to be without PC, as owning 30 registered firearms is not a crime and would not be a reasons to stop and search. Stiops like this occasionally end up in big lawsuits.

schizrade2
08-14-2007, 8:49 AM
So over the weekend I drove out to Reno for the last weekend of Hot August Nights. My uncle lives out there and when we were out looking at cars we were talking about guns and how he was thinking of getting one for CCW. Anyways we ended up going to a gun shop in town that he knew of and did some looking around. As we were looking I saw a PT145 which I had ordered locally but nobody around here in Modesto had one on the shelves for me to fondle. Naturally I asked the lady behind the counter if I could see the PT145 and said to a fella next to me that I had ordered one and had not held one yet so I was curious. As she was about to hand me the gun the fella asked where I ordered it from and I said California. All of a sudden she jerked the handgun back and locked it away behind the counter like I was a multi felon super criminal. I felt like people were staring and trying to avoid me or something. She then said I could not touch any of their guns and that I was pretty much not welcome in their store. There were some things that happened afterward as I spoke with the owner, arguing back and forth, and basically it came down to CA officials bullying them around was their excuse. He then more or less kicked me out of his store from there and they obviously won't be getting any business from my uncle. So has anybody else had a similar experience in Nevada gun shops?

BTW I just went by the gun shop today (Dave Lake's) and saw my gun. He even let me hold it and didn't kick me out. It feels better then I expected and I can't wait to see how it shoots. Seven more days :D

Which store was this? I hate that BS. Some of the stores around here are not worthy of patronage.

emc002
08-14-2007, 9:07 AM
Just out of curiosity, what do they put down for "probable cause" on their search warrant application? "Refused voluntary search"? That's not going to get them a warrant. Besides, can you imagine a judge getting a call from some officers on a roadside wanting a warrant to search a car for . . . fireworks? The judge would laugh at them and hang up. Sorry, I've got to call BS/urban (rural?) legend on this one, in the absence of someone saying, "It happened to me." :D

Ok, I can actually dispel the BS meter on this one, I used to live in San Diego and was stopped coming back from Vegas. It was a "Checkpoint" just like a DUI Checkpoint. If you refuse (I did), they detain you, wait for the dog to come buy and do a sniff test and *bingo*bango*bongo* there's their probable cause for a search if the dog hits on your car (the dog didn't and I was free to go).
BTW, this was also a teaching topic used by my Crim. Law professor at USD Law School who also got stopped...

Glock22Fan
08-14-2007, 9:30 AM
I have been out on many a ridealong. They can ALWAYS find a good reason to stop you - even down to suspicion of worn screenwiper blades. However, owning guns, displaying NRA stickers, having camo clothing on the back seat, none of this is good enough for a search (and all of this has held up in court). The one possible exception would be if there had recently been a crime in the immediate vicinity, the perp looked like you, and was wearing camo clothing like you had on the back seat.

However, if the cop (or a K9) smells mary jane, or sees something suspicious in open sight (not just an NRA sticker), then there's the good reason.

I would like to know the stated reason on the warrent mentioned earlier.

Yankee Clipper
08-14-2007, 9:33 AM
I was driving the speed limit and suddenly I got pulled over. I asked the CHP why they stopped me and they said it was because we ran your plates and saw you had over 30 long guns registered to your name (that isn't even the AWs I have registered) so we wanted to search you. I said I don't consent to a search so they waited an hour until the K9 showed up. After the K9 didn't smell anything then their supervisor showed up with the BATF and a 5th Federal District Search Warrant for my vehicle. It even had our GPS coordinates stated as the search address!
They took me out of my car at gun point and tore it all to hell. They even deflated my tires and searched inside of them. I won't mention how they searched me.
So don't even go to Nevada if you have guns in your name. They will bust you.
Wes - Are you going to file a civil suite (this borders on criminal) or would you rather not say in this forum?

lawnrevenge
08-14-2007, 9:34 AM
I took a trip to Florida earlier this year to visit my uncle. I stopped in a few gun shops in Texas, Florida, and a few other places. I got some ammo and a few accessories. I was spotted as a Californian at a few of the shops, they didn't care. A few even expressed sympathy for my "condition". I was friendly and when asked explained that I was delivering some fragile good to my uncle that we didn't want to freight. I keep my car void of markings, other than a flag sticker. I've disabled my daytime running lights. I even swap the dealer plates to plain black ones. All this for the reason that I like to not be singled out. I loved the experience of the trip, and really loved the fact that someone else paid for gas.
So the California hatred isn't everywhere. I expected to be run out of town in Texas. Instead, I was polite and complimented the owner on his prices, bought a few tins of surplus 7.62x54r and was treated like a human being. I ended up driving home with a full trunk (42 cu.ft.) of stuff (not all gun stuff)

Paratus et Vigilans
08-14-2007, 9:42 AM
Fear and intimidation is all this state has. It is sickening.

And FJold and others who doubt what the DOJ will go through, I have been pulled over and searched for high caps.

I was driving the speed limit and suddenly I got pulled over. I asked the CHP why they stopped me and they said it was because we ran your plates and saw you had over 30 long guns registered to your name (that isn't even the AWs I have registered) so we wanted to search you. I said I don't consent to a search so they waited an hour until the K9 showed up. After the K9 didn't smell anything then their supervisor showed up with the BATF and a 5th Federal District Search Warrant for my vehicle. It even had our GPS coordinates stated as the search address!

They took me out of my car at gun point and tore it all to hell. They even deflated my tires and searched inside of them. I won't mention how they searched me.

So don't even go to Nevada if you have guns in your name. They will bust you.

Wes! Shame on you! It's not nice to mess with peoples' minds like that! Long guns are NOT registered! :eek:

Plus, there's no "5th Federal District" anywere. You live in the Central District of California, and the Federal 5th Circuit (Court of Appeals) is in the South, based out of Atlanta. Bad Boy!!!

Paratus et Vigilans
08-14-2007, 9:52 AM
Ok, I can actually dispel the BS meter on this one, I used to live in San Diego and was stopped coming back from Vegas. It was a "Checkpoint" just like a DUI Checkpoint. If you refuse (I did), they detain you, wait for the dog to come buy and do a sniff test and *bingo*bango*bongo* there's their probable cause for a search if the dog hits on your car (the dog didn't and I was free to go).
BTW, this was also a teaching topic used by my Crim. Law professor at USD Law School who also got stopped...

Did your Crim Law prof also tell you that detaining you while they go get a K9 unit to sniff your car is AN ARREST? Done without probable cause, it is an actionable FALSE ARREST. Or was the dog and his handler already there, just not in the immediate vicinity of your vehicle? To wait for the dog to come up or down the line would not, in my mind, be unreasonable. An hour wait while they call one in is an arrest. A fifteen minute wait would be a gray area, and I would respond that I'm not going to wait 15 minutes for you to go get a dog, I'm leaving unless you are going to arrest me. Are you going to arrest me? On what grounds, Officer Jones, badge number 1234?

What I called BS on earlier was the officer at the checkpoint getting a telephonic search warrant on the grounds that the driver refused a request for a consensual search of the vehicle. Checkpoint stops are legal, but to go beyond a simple questioning of the driver, check for licesnse and registration, and visual check of the interior of vehicle for anything inside it that's in plain sight, that's a 4th Amendment violation.

ccwguy
08-14-2007, 10:07 AM
The cadoj has jurisdiction in Nevada? Sort of how New York mayor Bloomberg did in Virginia? That's not legal. So much BS in this thread it wreeks. The state of California is spending our money enforcing our laws in Nevada? Sure.

There is no law against drinking in in some provinces in Canada at 18, but the American government is there watching for Americans drinking under 21? Sure. Come on, what's factual? I have many high caps in Nevada that I bought there at Sportsmans Warehouse. They saw my ID! Oh My! I use these when I teach there, like this coming weekend. The cadoj CANNOT do a damned thing about it, contrary to paranoia. Anyone with a brain of their own would tell another states doj or other entity to pound sand if they tried to control their business.

I figure most people in most states do NOT like Californians because of the gunlaws!! WE have created so many that have affected the entire country. I heard it all when I lived in North Dakota.Seems everyone relates SF and Sac freaks to statewide population.

ghettoshecky
08-14-2007, 10:46 AM
So over the weekend I drove out to Reno for the last weekend of Hot August Nights. My uncle lives out there and when we were out looking at cars we were talking about guns and how he was thinking of getting one for CCW. Anyways we ended up going to a gun shop in town that he knew of and did some looking around. As we were looking I saw a PT145 which I had ordered locally but nobody around here in Modesto had one on the shelves for me to fondle. Naturally I asked the lady behind the counter if I could see the PT145 and said to a fella next to me that I had ordered one and had not held one yet so I was curious. As she was about to hand me the gun the fella asked where I ordered it from and I said California. All of a sudden she jerked the handgun back and locked it away behind the counter like I was a multi felon super criminal. I felt like people were staring and trying to avoid me or something. She then said I could not touch any of their guns and that I was pretty much not welcome in their store. There were some things that happened afterward as I spoke with the owner, arguing back and forth, and basically it came down to CA officials bullying them around was their excuse. He then more or less kicked me out of his store from there and they obviously won't be getting any business from my uncle. So has anybody else had a similar experience in Nevada gun shops?

BTW I just went by the gun shop today (Dave Lake's) and saw my gun. He even let me hold it and didn't kick me out. It feels better then I expected and I can't wait to see how it shoots. Seven more days :D

Yeah, but it was very different from your situation. I guess since I was the only one in the store he let me see and touch even the full auto MAC-10. He did sternly told me he can't let me even see any guns since I'm a California resident, but as I mentioned before he was cool and let me hold some of the guns. It was also a range and they were preping stuff for me to shoot a full auto, so I guess he felt they could let me play with some guns while I wait. Again I was the only customer in the store, other than some guy who came in who was looking to buy a gun because of some unsavory characters in front of his store. Remember it's Nevada so if he did purchase a hand gun, he could have walked right out and directly proceeded to his store to protect it with his new gun.

Fjold
08-14-2007, 10:48 AM
Ok, I can actually dispel the BS meter on this one, I used to live in San Diego and was stopped coming back from Vegas. It was a "Checkpoint" just like a DUI Checkpoint. If you refuse (I did), they detain you, wait for the dog to come buy and do a sniff test and *bingo*bango*bongo* there's their probable cause for a search if the dog hits on your car (the dog didn't and I was free to go).
BTW, this was also a teaching topic used by my Crim. Law professor at USD Law School who also got stopped...


Again, the BS meter is based on people getting stopped by CA Law enforcement after buying high capacity magazines at out of state gunshows.

The statement people are making is that CA law enforcement saw them doing the purchase at the gunshow and are busting people for that.

Fjold
08-14-2007, 10:55 AM
I
And FJold and others who doubt what the DOJ will go through, I have been pulled over and searched for high caps.

I was driving the speed limit and suddenly I got pulled over. I asked the CHP why they stopped me and they said it was because we ran your plates and saw you had over 30 long guns registered to your name (that isn't even the AWs I have registered) so we wanted to search you. I said I don't consent to a search so they waited an hour until the K9 showed up. After the K9 didn't smell anything then their supervisor showed up with the BATF and a 5th Federal District Search Warrant for my vehicle. It even had our GPS coordinates stated as the search address!

They took me out of my car at gun point and tore it all to hell. They even deflated my tires and searched inside of them. I won't mention how they searched me.

So don't even go to Nevada if you have guns in your name. They will bust you.

Wes,
I don't doubt that you were pulled over and searched illegally based on the information on the number of firearms that you own. But, what my BS meter is pegging on, is the statement that people make saying that the CA law enforcement is pulling over people who buy high capacity magazines at out of state gunshows and busting them for that.

Does anyone know the name of one person who has bought high capacity magazines at an out of state gunshow and who was then subsequently stopped, searched and prosecuted for buying those magazines?

Rob P.
08-14-2007, 10:58 AM
Ok, so how does this work...

Say you go to Nevada and find a gun shop willing to deal with you. At the shop you find a handgun which is Calif legal and on the list. Can you pay for the gun and walk out with it? Once you have it, can you now drive back into Calif and register it with the DOJ?

Yes? No? End of 10 day waiting period? If this is feasible, then I cannot see why Nevada shops wouldn't WANT to deal with Californians. So long as the firearm is legal in Calif there's no problems I can see.

Muzz
08-14-2007, 12:25 PM
Just out of curiosity, what do they put down for "probable cause" on their search warrant application? "Refused voluntary search"? That's not going to get them a warrant. Besides, can you imagine a judge getting a call from some officers on a roadside wanting a warrant to search a car for . . . fireworks? The judge would laugh at them and hang up. Sorry, I've got to call BS/urban (rural?) legend on this one, in the absence of someone saying, "It happened to me." :D
http://www.americanradioshow.us/archive.html. Go to June 16th and June 2nd for discussions about this checkpoint and the things that happened there.

No BS here. Follow the link to Champion's radio show. Time, place, weather, lighting, NAMES, and situations all mentioned. Should be proof enough for you.

schizrade2
08-14-2007, 12:43 PM
Ok, so how does this work...

Say you go to Nevada and find a gun shop willing to deal with you. At the shop you find a handgun which is Calif legal and on the list. Can you pay for the gun and walk out with it? Once you have it, can you now drive back into Calif and register it with the DOJ?

Yes? No? End of 10 day waiting period? If this is feasible, then I cannot see why Nevada shops wouldn't WANT to deal with Californians. So long as the firearm is legal in Calif there's no problems I can see.

You cannot buy a gun in Nevada without going through a Cali FFL. It must be shipped to the Cali FFL and then the 10 day wait begins. No easy way around that.

Some of the shops up here are paranoid in dealing with Californians, some are just a holes and hostile. :mad:

Some of them welcome Cali residents with open arms. Silver State Armory, MRE Guns in Carson City (http://www.mreguns.com), those rtards at The Gun Trader on Plumb, Sportsmans Wearhouse, Carson Armory in Moundhouse (owned by a Cali "expat") and soon Cabelas. They all sell to Cali residents if it is legal. Last time I was in Carson Armory they had a Cali legal AR (gripless) and Cali legal AK. The stores that get all ramped up are usually run by Fudds. :censored:

Bizarre Guns is being run by a new manager so it recently has been better, but who knows about the Californian thing. My friend (lives in Woodland) just bought some P3AT mags there and the guy running the place just shook his head and said he was so upset what has happened to his native state. Now the guy that used to manage the place was a world class douche. :rolleyes:

ibanezfoo
08-14-2007, 2:59 PM
Californian's aren't popular in certain areas of the South either, I took to calling myself a Canuck when I was in certain parts ;)

My friend Nick got pulled over and harassed in Texas by troopers AND good ol' boys in pickup trucks simply because he had a "riced out" car with a CA license plate. He used to drive all over the place to car shows.

-Bryan

jre
08-14-2007, 3:36 PM
not only gun stores in nevada. be sure not to mention california at the big gun show or your looked at like a red headed step child. like the original post says, you couldn't even hold a gun there if your known to be from california.

LAK Supply
08-14-2007, 4:19 PM
Is it just me or did Wes just do a drive-by on this thread??? :51: :rofl2:

Thrillbilly
08-14-2007, 4:22 PM
Hmmmm I got a Sig sticker on the car, go out of state often and have never been pulled over let alone had my car searched.

arguy15
08-14-2007, 4:58 PM
you are just blowing smoke right wes?

He has got to be.

WolfMansDad
08-14-2007, 6:37 PM
you are just blowing smoke right wes?

Of course he is. Long guns aren't registered, even in California.

Had you going, though, didn't he?

ccwguy
08-14-2007, 7:21 PM
not only gun stores in nevada. be sure not to mention california at the big gun show or your looked at like a red headed step child. like the original post says, you couldn't even hold a gun there if your known to be from california.

So, even when the show is 30% California dealers? I beg to differ. Nobody outside of California has a lot of respect for us, some of us here are not here for the great gun laws.

niceguy
08-14-2007, 7:59 PM
In Reno, there's a place called Silver State... good guys there, lots of unique ammo, and surplus stuff. Sold me all kinds of things, never asked where I was from....

E__WOK
08-14-2007, 8:06 PM
Edited.

staehlin180
08-14-2007, 8:16 PM
personally, i havent been to bizarre guns since they changed hands, but the guy who worked there was pretty cool, a buddy and i were headed out to fernley for the pumpkin shoot @ the mustang range and we stopped in to buy some ammo, he ended up giving us about 100 rounds of .223 for free. I did however go to sportsman's warehouse last month and they said they wouldnt ship a desert eagle to a CA FFL. Is it different for handguns as opposed to long guns??? anyways, just thought id share my experience

LAK Supply
08-14-2007, 8:23 PM
Of course he is. Long guns aren't registered, even in California.

Had you going, though, didn't he?

Long guns actually can be registered, although they are not when you purchase them. Some people do it for proof of ownership so when wardens harass them while hunting they don't get their weapons seized while proving the guns are theirs. I highly doubt that Wes went to that trouble however......

CalNRA
08-14-2007, 8:28 PM
Long guns actually can be registered, although they are not when you purchase them. Some people do it for proof of ownership so when wardens harass them while hunting they don't get their weapons seized while proving the guns are theirs. I highly doubt that Wes went to that trouble however......

ah yes, the DOJ BOF Voluntary Registration form. I'll get right on that.:D

LAK Supply
08-14-2007, 9:12 PM
Me too! Oh wait, I lost all of my guns in that tragic hunting/boating accident! :D I guess I'll have to buy more when I'm officially a resident of Wyoming in a few weeks! :D :cool:

AJAX22
08-14-2007, 9:47 PM
Of course he is. Long guns aren't registered, even in California.

Had you going, though, didn't he?

while long guns aren't 'registered' every purchase you make of a long gun is recorded (not specifics, just overall number of long guns)

I've heard the call come back over police radio "neumerous firearms purchases" I remember it distinctly since I was being held at gunpoint by three guys with ar15's who had just made me drop my dissasembled guns in the dirt.

They may not know exactly what you have, but they do know roughly how many you have.

tenpercentfirearms
08-14-2007, 10:08 PM
while long guns aren't 'registered' every purchase you make of a long gun is recorded (not specifics, just overall number of long guns)

I've heard the call come back over police radio "neumerous firearms purchases" I remember it distinctly since I was being held at gunpoint by three guys with ar15's who had just made me drop my dissasembled guns in the dirt.

They may not know exactly what you have, but they do know roughly how many you have.

Every law enforcement officer I have ever talked to has never said anything about this mysterious database everyone is always talking about. I think it is BS. Sorry, you seem sincere, but I just don't think it is there. Not to mention, why would three guys with AR15s be holding you at gun point while you are just sitting around listening to the radio? Wouldn't they have you in cuffs? Why would they have your ID and be getting back info while you are at gun point? Don't they usually cuff you then search you, then find your wallet, then call you in? :confused:

As far as my little story goes. Your BS meters should have been off the charts with mentions of such things as "long gun database", "BATF", "5th Federal District Search Warrant", and "GPS coordinates stated as the search address".

I am a little disappointed in some of you for falling for that one.

ccwguy
08-14-2007, 10:32 PM
while long guns aren't 'registered' every purchase you make of a long gun is recorded (not specifics, just overall number of long guns)

I've heard the call come back over police radio "neumerous firearms purchases" I remember it distinctly since I was being held at gunpoint by three guys with ar15's who had just made me drop my dissasembled guns in the dirt.

They may not know exactly what you have, but they do know roughly how many you have.

DROS= dealer record of sale.

'Record of sale' being the operative words. Registration? Nope. I have purchased over 100 firearms, so I'm a 'high risk' traffic stop? Nope. I'm betting most others here have many more purchases, and they make it out of their driveways every morning without being stopped. I was once 'checked' for having more than 14 pistols and 8 rifles in my camper while in the back country. They wanted to make sure they weren't stolen etc... It took hours. Not instant. They gave up after the first 6 and left me alone. No registration is tracked on rifles. They had NO clue how many I owned, none of their damned business.

People who get searched involuntarily are either screwing up or just mistaken for a bad guy. They cannot search just because they 'think' you are lying. Probable cause is needed for search. (warrant) Now, if you got stuff in plain site, that's different. That is pc.

Creeping Incrementalism
08-14-2007, 10:46 PM
Does anyone know the name of one person who has bought high capacity magazines at an out of state gunshow and who was then subsequently stopped, searched and prosecuted for buying those magazines?

Chuck Michel, the primary attorney hired by the NRA in California, reported in CRPA's Firing Line newsletter, said this has happened. Someone scanned the article but I can't find it now. However, I typed in the relevant info myself. This is from the Feb. 2006 issue, page 3:

GUN SHOW "STINGS" CONTINUE

Federal, state, and local law enforcement authorities continue their stepped up efforts to enforce firearms laws, particularly at gun shows in California and bordering states. The California Deparment of Justice Firearms Division, county and local law enforcement officials (particularly the LAPD Gun Unit) and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms and Explosives all attend gun shows throughout California (they are not limited to their own jurisdictions) and neighboring border states. There are uniformed officers present, as well as civillian informants and undercover plain clothes law enforcement officers who conduct "stings," typically by enticing gun buyers or sellers to forego the legal requirement that gun sales be processed through a licensed gun dealer. Often, rare guns and collectibles are offered at "too good to be true" prices in order to seduce the "stingee". Police also monitor Shotgun News, Gun List, and other trade magazines, and even run ads themselves, to likewise sting unwitting participants. State police have been known to follow cars with California plates back from the gun shows across state lines and arrest the occupants for importing "assault weapons" or "high capacity" magazines, etc. Suspects typically have their businesses and resixences searched, and all of their firearms seized....

CRPA asks your help in getting the word out that gun show attendees need to educate themselves about the law and to be careful not to violate it.... If you are approached about an illegal transaction: Do not equivocate -- refuse to participate.

tenpercentfirearms
08-15-2007, 6:39 AM
Chuck Michel, the primary attorney hired by the NRA in California, reported in CRPA's Firing Line newsletter, said this has happened. Someone scanned the article but I can't find it now. However, I typed in the relevant info myself. This is from the Feb. 2006 issue, page 3:

That quote is exactly what Fjold is talking about. No specifics, just warnings. And I don't think the point is to encourage lawlessness, I think the point is more along the lines of "the sky is falling".

bwiese
08-15-2007, 9:50 AM
I do know there are instances of folks with unreg'd AWs followed back into CA.

One particular case (yes, the guy had a name, I just don't remember) is a dude who took his AW to the Reno show and tried to sell it. Didn't get his price so he took it back into CA. Got popped inside the border for possession, transportation and import of an unreg'd AW.

Fjold
08-15-2007, 9:59 AM
Someone give me a case number and I'll stop calling BS on this.

Glock22Fan
08-15-2007, 10:19 AM
"As far as my little story goes. Your BS meters should have been off the charts with mentions of such things as "long gun database", "BATF", "5th Federal District Search Warrant", and "GPS coordinates stated as the search address".

I am a little disappointed in some of you for falling for that one."

For me, the whole thing felt wrong, but the lack of a credible reason for a search warrent was the biggest sticker.

Usually, if one intends sarcasm, you include a few of the "there was a nun, obviously a BATF agent in disguise" and "I flashed my CCW badge and shouted 'I am one of the good guys'" type statements. To me, your statements are not quite obvious enough - especially to a conspiracy theorist who has no idea whether there may be a secret long gun database, a 5th Federal district or whether GPS coordinates are ever given in a search warrent. Or, of course, you use the <sarcasm> </sarcasm> tag.

Maybe color me humorless, but (as presented) I didn't find it funny. I'm still not sure why you posted it. Sorry.

LAK Supply
08-15-2007, 10:27 AM
I don't have your case #, but I'm wondering why you're so skeptical that DOJ and friends would pull something shady after the behavior they have displayed blatantly to us in the OLL situation....? They've proven that they are willing to lie, both verbally and in writing, they've proven that they will partake in illegal activities (trying to enforce law that doesn't exist) if they think the end justifies their means.......

I'm not saying that all of these things have actually happened (although I did like the Wes bomb-and-run entertainment), but don't you think some if it possible given the track-record of the DOJ and CA in general? I'm not going to believe everything I hear either, but I have an inherent mistrust for CA's government and I wouldn't put much past them.......

dustoff31
08-15-2007, 10:38 AM
I thought it might be useful to add some comments from another "border town" here in Lake Havasu City, AZ. I mentioned this thread to the owner of my favorite gunshop this morning and he had this to say.

"While there is no excuse for being rude, or throwing any customer out unless provoked, there is no point in spending a lot time showing guns to people who can't buy them. Unless they have a legal residence in Arizona, or have an FFL, they can't buy anything they couldn't get in California anyway. I'm running a business, not a museum. As far as ammo and accessories, they can have all they want."

I also asked if he had any knowledge of CA DOJ snooping around here or in Nevada. He didn't know about Nevada, but said he just couldn't imagime that, since they have no authority there. Said had never, ever, saw or heard of them in gunshops around here, but if they did come into his store, they would be some Californans, that we would be happy to throw out.

eta34
08-15-2007, 10:50 AM
Every law enforcement officer I have ever talked to has never said anything about this mysterious database everyone is always talking about. I think it is BS. Sorry, you seem sincere, but I just don't think it is there. Not to mention, why would three guys with AR15s be holding you at gun point while you are just sitting around listening to the radio? Wouldn't they have you in cuffs? Why would they have your ID and be getting back info while you are at gun point? Don't they usually cuff you then search you, then find your wallet, then call you in? :confused:

As far as my little story goes. Your BS meters should have been off the charts with mentions of such things as "long gun database", "BATF", "5th Federal District Search Warrant", and "GPS coordinates stated as the search address".

I am a little disappointed in some of you for falling for that one.

No long gun database, no dispatcher telling me how many guns you own each time you are stopped...please remove the tinfoil hat.

JawBone
08-15-2007, 10:53 AM
Reg'd AWs are long guns...don't they have a database?

saki302
08-15-2007, 1:17 PM
My retired LE buddy told me it is possible to run a check on Regged AWs through DOJ, but DOJ won't do it unless a crime has been committed. He said you can run pistols through their system easier, but there is a record of such checks, and too many checks will have to be explained to a supervisor (hence he didn't run S/N checks for friends very often).

-Dave

tenpercentfirearms
08-15-2007, 8:10 PM
Maybe color me humorless, but (as presented) I didn't find it funny. I'm still not sure why you posted it. Sorry.

That means you take these stories way too seriously or it could also mean you smuggle so much hardware across the border the thought that they can run your plates and bust you has you concerned.

I guess if everyone is smuggling items back from Nevada, they might not see the humor in this. I don't smuggle things into California, so I thought it was funny. Sorry.

And a sarcasm tag is not necessary if your story is absurd enough. :p

ccwguy
08-15-2007, 8:20 PM
My retired LE buddy told me it is possible to run a check on Regged AWs through DOJ, but DOJ won't do it unless a crime has been committed. He said you can run pistols through their system easier, but there is a record of such checks, and too many checks will have to be explained to a supervisor (hence he didn't run S/N checks for friends very often).

-Dave


Exactly, NICS only and they need a reason to do so. Being nosy is not enough reason. I had a Sheriff deputy client, he asked if he could run me to work on his house: nope!. He apologized later when he did it for curiosity sake anyways and was reprimanded for it. Color of authority?

AJAX22
08-15-2007, 8:58 PM
Not to mention, why would three guys with AR15s be holding you at gun point while you are just sitting around listening to the radio? Wouldn't they have you in cuffs? Why would they have your ID and be getting back info while you are at gun point? Don't they usually cuff you then search you, then find your wallet, then call you in? :confused:


It actually happened, a friend and I were out shooting at pregnant hill in cayucus and some soccer mom heard some of our rapid fire and reported us for shooting machine guns.

The sherifs department responded to the call, but since we were up on a hill shooting into a bigger hill, (while the sherifs pulled into the parking area down below) we saw them long before they saw us.

We weren't doing anything illegal, but we figured since we were the only ones out there they had to be looking for us. (the soccer mom that reported us apparently heard the gunshots from the parking area and left quickly)

we pulled the bolts out of the rifles and took the slides off the handguns and walked down the long path back to the parking area with the guns held out to our sides at arms length by the tips of the barrels. the sherifs talked to us on megaphone about half way down the path, I can't remember exactly what was said, but it involved exactly how to come down who first etc.

They had set up behind the doors of the patrol cars with AR15's and covered us as we walked down.

when we were about 20 feet away the officers asked us one at a time to lay our guns down on the ground, then we were requested to lift our shirts to show that we had no other firearms. (AR15's still pointed at us)

At this point one of the officers came down and collected the guns, another took our ID's and a third just stood there with the AR15 (not pointing it at us, just holding it)

the .22LR rifles were obviously not machine guns (single shot bolt action, his was a targetmaster, mine was a sears and roebuck) neither were the pistols (his was a .22 Ruger standard, mine was a 1914 liberty patent 32 auto)

Once it was clear that we were just local boys out shooting tin cans up at the usual spot, they didn't see the need to handcuff us or read us our rights, they searched my car with my consent(that was borrowed from my mom for the trip) ran the registration on the pistols.

Thinking back on it, the 'numerous firearm purchases' was in reference to my buddy when they called in the serial number on his pistol, I believe at the time the ruger standard was the only pistol he owned, though he had purchased a number of rifles and shotguns.

I was wearing kaki pants and a black t-shirt, there was a boyscout pocketknife in my left pocket and my keys were in my right pocket and I had my old beat up wallet in my back right pocket. I was wearing black steel toe work boots. and i had a military web belt on with two M16 clip pouches and a canteen on it that I was using for ammo.

I don't remember the early part of the day, but the moments when we were standing in front of the officers with the guns pointed at us is a vivid memory.

I distinctly recall hearing over the radio, "*friends name*, *friends address*, numerous firearm purchases"

It's possible that my friend had more than one pistol registered and that is what they were referring to... but I believe he only had the one.

jerryg1776
08-15-2007, 11:59 PM
I think it's bizarre guns- a place next door to a guitar shop by the same name.

I had the same guy do the same thing to me there 2 years ago in Reno. I was there for a trade show for our distributor, Acusport. The guy barked at me, told us to leave. I offered to show him my FFL too!

The guy is obviously derranged. I was with a freind of mine- Dan McLeod (Joe Gunguy) who was PD there 15 years ago- he called his old buddy, still in the department, asked him to harrass the shop. (in nevada, there's no DOJ- local PDs operate in much the same manner.

There's a Reno shop- out on Virginia ave I think... something like American Arms- they are waaaay cool- we went in, told them- "we're californian!" they said "no problem- come play with some real guns!" and handed me an AK.

WAS IT THE FAT BASTARD??? He had an attitude with a CA resident when I was in there one time a few years ago...

schizrade2
08-16-2007, 7:35 AM
not only gun stores in nevada. be sure not to mention california at the big gun show or your looked at like a red headed step child. like the original post says, you couldn't even hold a gun there if your known to be from california.

BS. That is total crap. I bought my first AR upper in Reno while living in the Bay Area at the Big Show. Nobody cared where I was from. :mad:

E. Fudd
08-21-2007, 11:31 AM
So, if one were to buy a condo or vacation home in NV and obtain a NV Seasonal Resident ID (thereby not giving up one's CA driver's license), is that recognized as legit state ID as far as NV gun purchases are concerned?

StukaJr
08-21-2007, 12:44 PM
I've shopped in a few AZ shops (J & G one of them) with my AZ resident friends whom were buying guns (I was buying ammo) - my friends told me not to mention "California" while they were making their selection... That was to prevent the shop from thinking "straw purchase" or that they were buying the guns for me and I was told that "they do not like it" (duh!).

I did speak to the counter guy later and he was fine with helping me with with my ammo purchases and when I inquired about a few C&R firearms (I had a copy of my FFL03 handy).

packnrat
08-21-2007, 11:35 PM
i forget the name of the gun store in reno, nv. but when they found out i lived in ca, it was a lecture about how he would go to jail if he sold me any "high cap" mags, all i got there was a very cold shoulder, and they really did not want to sell me anything.

the store is on plumb rd, do not go there,

thedrickel
08-21-2007, 11:41 PM
i forget the name of the gun store in reno, nv. but when they found out i lived in ca, it was a lecture about how he would go to jail if he sold me any "high cap" mags, all i got there was a very cold shoulder, and they really did not want to sell me anything.

the store is on plumb rd, do not go there,

Ha, "do not go there"! I think stories like that make 75% of us want to go there and set them straight.

LAK Supply
08-21-2007, 11:57 PM
What store was that? I think I'm going there on Monday to make a magazine purchase........if they don't want sell me some standard capacity mags some lively discussion may ensue :D

Rhys898
08-22-2007, 2:53 AM
I've shopped in a few AZ shops (AIM surplus one of them) with my AZ resident friends whom were buying guns (I was buying ammo) - my friends told me not to mention "California" while they were making their selection... That was to prevent the shop from thinking "straw purchase" or that they were buying the guns for me and I was told that "they do not like it" (duh!).

I did speak to the counter guy later and he was fine with helping me with with my ammo purchases and when I inquired about a few C&R firearms (I had a copy of my FFL03 handy).


Was it JGSales in Prescott by any chance??? AIMSurplus is in Ohio. I drove out to JGSales and picked up a CZ52 on my C&R several years back. The only thing that sucked was they didn't have the ammo in stock when I went to pick up my order, but the ammo came in several weeks later. They charged my card and shipped the ammo to me without contacting me at all.

Jer

schizrade2
08-22-2007, 8:40 AM
What store was that? I think I'm going there on Monday to make a magazine purchase........if they don't want sell me some standard capacity mags some lively discussion may ensue :D

That would be the Gun Trader. They are the smack-tards nobody likes up here. Nobody I know even goes in there.

LAK Supply
08-22-2007, 1:16 PM
That would be the Gun Trader. They are the smack-tards nobody likes up here. Nobody I know even goes in there.

Sounds like a good place to stop with my CA id on my way out of town next week! :flowers:

ocabj
08-22-2007, 1:51 PM
What I don't get is how you would get in trouble just for being in possession of a large capacity magazine coming back from out of State. You can leave the State with a legally acquired 30 rounder and come back in with it.

AKman
08-22-2007, 6:35 PM
I go to Nevada all the time, have legally stored firearms in the truck, and stop at gun stores with no problems at all. NRA hitch cover, "My Other Auto is a 7.62 mm" license plate frame, CHP everywhere on Hwy 395 and still no problem. Maybe I need to drag an old broken hicap behind the truck to get some attention? Hell, I even smuggle fruit back and forth across the border and take a bite out of it when I stop at the agricultural check station. Makes 'em laugh every time.

However, I would be worried if I got pulled over and had to wait for a warrant from the 5th District Federal Court. Those Texas (as well as LA and MS) retards have no business sticking their noses in the 9th Circuit's business.

Thanks tenpercent, you broke my BS meter. I laughed just thinking about how many people probably believed this post from a reputable senior member.

StukaJr
08-22-2007, 6:48 PM
Was it JGSales in Prescott by any chance??? AIMSurplus is in Ohio. I drove out to JGSales and picked up a CZ52 on my C&R several years back. The only thing that sucked was they didn't have the ammo in stock when I went to pick up my order, but the ammo came in several weeks later. They charged my card and shipped the ammo to me without contacting me at all.

Jer

Yah, yah - it was J&G in Prescott (I had my loose screws when I typed that).

Sucks about the ammo, but most internet placed back-orders irritate the heck out of me - I'm planning to visit J&G again for their C&R stuff but probably will just inquire on the C&R firearms right there at the counter.

ItsPhipps
08-23-2007, 3:00 PM
The name of the gun shop that I stopped at is Silver State Arms. Here is their brief and boring website http://www.silverstatearms.com/. If anybody is heading that way you should stop in to visit. If not then the phone # is on the website. I'd appreciate if you guys gave them a call to let them know how we feel about the way they conduct business. For that matter we could call all the places that give us grief or treat us like criminals just because we're from California.

It makes me wonder what would happen if I went to the Reno gun show and bought a box of large capacity magazines, dropped the magazines off at my uncle's house and drove the empty box in plain view back across into CA. Of course making it pretty obvious that I'm from California while doing it to attract attention from any super covert undercover authority clowns. If they did stop somebody under those circumstances (which I find unlikely but you never know) what could be done by them legally before they cross the line into illegality? What could be done by the "criminal" carrying back the emty box?

aplinker
08-23-2007, 3:27 PM
The name of the gun shop that I stopped at is Silver State Arms. Here is their brief and boring website http://www.silverstatearms.com/. If anybody is heading that way you should stop in to visit. If not then the phone # is on the website. I'd appreciate if you guys gave them a call to let them know how we feel about the way they conduct business. For that matter we could call all the places that give us grief or treat us like criminals just because we're from California.

It makes me wonder what would happen if I went to the Reno gun show and bought a box of large capacity magazines, dropped the magazines off at my uncle's house and drove the empty box in plain view back across into CA. Of course making it pretty obvious that I'm from California while doing it to attract attention from any super covert undercover authority clowns. If they did stop somebody under those circumstances (which I find unlikely but you never know) what could be done by them legally before they cross the line into illegality? What could be done by the "criminal" carrying back the emty box?


I went to that place only a couple months ago. The guy who helped me was really nice and friendly. I told him from the start I was from CA. I needed ammo and he cut me a deal.

I also said I liked seeing all the nice stuff on the wall. He asked if I wanted to see anything; I played with a PTR-91. Also had him pull out a beautiful 3" unfluted Smith, wood grips...

Asked him where to shoot, he drew me a map to the closest place outside of town accesible without 4WD.

Maybe the guy you dealt with had a bad day?

Creeping Incrementalism
08-27-2007, 8:08 PM
That quote is exactly what Fjold is talking about. No specifics, just warnings. And I don't think the point is to encourage lawlessness, I think the point is more along the lines of "the sky is falling".

I think Chuck Michel is a reputable enough source for his word to be believed.

There is also the incident from last August where Bill Weise reported Iggy harassing vendors, telling them not to sell to Californians, as proof that the Cal-DOJ targets Nevada gun shows. The incidents C. Michel talk about happened after gun shows.

fast318
08-27-2007, 9:04 PM
It's interesting the different responses that people have been getting while going to out of state guns shops.

Earlier this year I went to the AZ gun show and bought plenty of ammo and accessories and paid with a CC, my ID was checked and I went on my way. I also took along my Winchester 75 from CA (looking for the original peep sight and scope) in a black soft case. After the show I loaded my new merchandise and Win75 into my vehicle with CA plate and had no problem on the drive back.

I also went to Vegas this year, while my wife was at a convention I explored the city. I went to three gun shops and purchased stuff at two with my CC. At one of the shops you could clearly see my CA vehicle in the parking lot and I even walked in with one other guy from the parking lot. Not one problem

milsurpshooter
08-28-2007, 9:47 PM
relic just sent you pm

hylander
08-28-2007, 10:00 PM
A few years ago I was in a gun store in Reno and asked to see a handgun,
The lady started to hand me the gun at the same time she asked
"where abouts you from", I say just about Sac, she snatches the gun back puts it in the case and walks away not saying a word. I try to talk to her and she ignores me, So I walk out :mad:
All the other stores have treated me great and I always tell them I'm from Calif.

schizrade2
08-29-2007, 12:59 PM
The name of the gun shop that I stopped at is Silver State Arms. Here is their brief and boring website http://www.silverstatearms.com/. If anybody is heading that way you should stop in to visit. If not then the phone # is on the website. I'd appreciate if you guys gave them a call to let them know how we feel about the way they conduct business. For that matter we could call all the places that give us grief or treat us like criminals just because we're from California.

It makes me wonder what would happen if I went to the Reno gun show and bought a box of large capacity magazines, dropped the magazines off at my uncle's house and drove the empty box in plain view back across into CA. Of course making it pretty obvious that I'm from California while doing it to attract attention from any super covert undercover authority clowns. If they did stop somebody under those circumstances (which I find unlikely but you never know) what could be done by them legally before they cross the line into illegality? What could be done by the "criminal" carrying back the emty box?

Hmmm, interesting. Nice to know BTW. Bizarre is better anyway. More selection, less Fudd. The guy running it can play a mean acoustic guitar too. my wife and him were jamming (well soft country jamming.. :p ) the other day.

Carson Armory and Bizarre are the best anyway. Both are run by Cali natives and are cool as crap. They also stay up on the laws out there. Same with MRE in Carson.

Eh, whatever. Next time you are all up, give me a PM. We can all pitch in for ammo and go shooting. (cause it is too damn expensive otherwise.) :mad: