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View Full Version : NPR poll = Should teachers be allowed to carry guns in the classroom?


BBJohnnyT
12-20-2012, 8:16 AM
NPR just posted this new poll...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/12/19/167622812/let-teachers-carry-guns-some-state-lawmakers-say-yes

Right now, it's running 32% Yes and 68% No. But I'm sure all of you gentlemen know what to do.

P.Charm
12-20-2012, 8:18 AM
I much rather have a school marshel than teachers carrying.

redhead
12-20-2012, 8:19 AM
And ladies. I just voted. I think it's nuts that people think it's fine not to have children protected in shools. And yet, when someone pscho comes in and starts a rampage, who do they call for help? People with guns.

Steve1968LS2
12-20-2012, 8:19 AM
I don't think teachers should be able to..

BUT.. I think the Principal, Vice Principal, and maybe the lead teacher should be able to..

The individual teachers have enough to deal with.. and what if a crazed kid tries to take thier weapon? Besides, the "higher ups" like the Pricipal have more experience typically and thus are more mature.

BBJohnnyT
12-20-2012, 8:24 AM
I much rather have a school marshel than teachers carrying.
Just to clarify, the poll specifically asks "Should teachers who have "concealed weapons" permits be allowed to have guns in schools?", if that makes any difference in your opinion.

I respectfully disagree with your view. Much too simple for a madman to ambush and neutralize a single armed LEO, and then commence his rampage. The more responsible, law abiding adults carrying, the better.

atc4usmc
12-20-2012, 8:29 AM
Just voted. 32 yes, 67 no.... just saying!

Don the savage
12-20-2012, 8:30 AM
It should be an option. As a teacher i would be more than willing to go to training to carry. Many would not. Thats fine. It puts an element of surprise into a psychopaths mind- who's carrying who is not. So maybe they find a different target. Those of you that hate schools and teachers because they made you learn things will be against any liberty affirming ideas but i ask you this- why are admin better off armed than teachers? Why are they going to retain their weapons better than a teacher? Most admin i've had can barely retain a twinkee. There will have to be training involved and that will weed out those who can and cannot.

lavey29
12-20-2012, 8:39 AM
Personally, I think it should be mandatory to have some kind of armed security presence at schools. Whether it is school police, private security, etc... There are a lot of unemployed veterans who I am quite sure could defend our children after defending our Country.

The visible deterrent alone would keep the psychos away in my opinion.

It is sad that we have reached this point but copy cat psychos are still out there planning so 2 armed guards minimum with more needed depending on the size of the the campus and number of students.

That should be the new federal law instead of AWB. O and the cast of clowns have taken 100's of millions of dollars away from schools over the last 4 years some of which used to pay for school security guards.

Hoooper
12-20-2012, 9:06 AM
I personally think it is irresponsible of us as a society to send hundreds of children to a single concentrated location and only provide them the protection of hiding under a desk and hoping for the best should anything happen.

knerona
12-20-2012, 9:22 AM
Let's not decide for them, just give the teachers and administration the option for it.

Coded-Dude
12-20-2012, 9:34 AM
33% Yes, 66% No, 5,600+ Votes

scarville
12-20-2012, 9:38 AM
Do teachers check their civil rights at the door? That's nonsense. Of course they should be "allowed" to carry on the job.

artoaster
12-20-2012, 9:43 AM
Is the 2nd Amend. Related Legal & Political Discussion forum turning into Off Topic, or what? Now polls and general stuff?

:)

jrock
12-20-2012, 9:48 AM
Still at 33/66.

M. D. Van Norman
12-20-2012, 9:50 AM
If we canít even get so-called RKBA supporters behind allowing qualified teachers to be armed Ö

five.five-six
12-20-2012, 9:57 AM
I don't think teachers should be able to..

BUT.. I think the Principal, Vice Principal, and maybe the lead teacher should be able to..

The individual teachers have enough to deal with.. and what if a crazed kid tries to take thier weapon? Besides, the "higher ups" like the Pricipal have more experience typically and thus are more mature.

Yes, like a fire extinguisher. It won't stop a fire from starting but it can be used to put a fire out. It would be silly to not have fire extinguishers in a school because the fire department can be the in 7 minutes.

morfeeis
12-20-2012, 10:10 AM
We need more people to vote yes. We are getting our asses handed to us in this PR war.

five.five-six
12-20-2012, 10:14 AM
It's NPR, might as well be a poll on DU or HP.

morrcarr67
12-20-2012, 10:19 AM
Yes

34% to 65%

MOA1
12-20-2012, 10:32 AM
It should be an option. As a teacher i would be more than willing to go to training to carry. Many would not. Thats fine. It puts an element of surprise into a psychopaths mind- who's carrying who is not. So maybe they find a different target. Those of you that hate schools and teachers because they made you learn things will be against any liberty affirming ideas but i ask you this- why are admin better off armed than teachers? Why are they going to retain their weapons better than a teacher? Most admin i've had can barely retain a twinkee. There will have to be training involved and that will weed out those who can and cannot.

I agree 100%. IF it is possible that a teacher can carry it makes a bad guy realize that he must treat every teacher or staff as if they are armed. Game changer it is.

Who's idea was it to put children in such a vulnerable position?

As for metal detectors and security: Do away with them, IF a child/student is caught with a "known" weapon of any kind, they are expelled until age 21 and becomes the responsibility of the parent. Which in turn will make the parent more responsible in the first place. The age 21 is IF the child has turned their life around they will not be prohibited from college. At that point they will have proven themselves to be trustworthy and have learned their lesson or it will be a moot point because they will be incarcerated.

Is the 2nd Amend. Related Legal & Political Discussion forum turning into Off Topic, or what? Now polls and general stuff?

:)

I think in this case it is a 2A topic. I do believe that the more we stand up for the RTKBA and insist on it in as many places as possible, the better off we are going to be.

MOA1
12-20-2012, 10:34 AM
I think these democratic polls are very misleading because we are a Republic and don't practice the "what's for dinner, two wolves and a sheep".

MoeSizslak
12-20-2012, 10:35 AM
I'm a teacher and I REALLY wish I could defend myself and my students at my school. I've often thought about how utterly and ridiculously unsecured my school is. I also believe I have the courage and the skill to stop an active shooter, but not the equipment since I obey the law.

If it weren't for my wife's family connections, I'd have moved out of this F'd up state years ago.

FastFinger
12-20-2012, 10:39 AM
A common denominator with many of these mass murders is that the killer folds at first sign of armed resistance, they are the ultimate coward and usually kill themselves. So any armed school staff who can get there would probably end the rampage.

formula502
12-20-2012, 10:40 AM
Love me some NPR during long commutes, but given their demographics this is a PUSH POLL.

"Can you believe what those gun nuts are proposing? Teachers with GUNS!?!?!?!"

SuperSet
12-20-2012, 10:42 AM
I think the general public probably isn't ready for arming teachers yet but is more likely to view armed security guards more favorably.

HowardW56
12-20-2012, 10:44 AM
This is tough, considering the people that follow NPR....

Mullins
12-20-2012, 10:59 AM
This is not a good poll, It keeps track of how many (clicks) and lets people vote more than once if they refresh the page.

(I may or may not have voted more than once)

VAReact
12-20-2012, 11:05 AM
Voted. 35.43% Yes, 64.57% No.

Renaissance Redneck
12-20-2012, 11:16 AM
Love me some NPR during long commutes, but given their demographics this is a PUSH POLL.

Ditto.

003
12-20-2012, 11:27 AM
Bump top the top

donny douchebag
12-20-2012, 11:53 AM
NPR demographics ensure we'll never win that poll.

ShootinMedic
12-20-2012, 12:01 PM
NPR demographics ensure we'll never win that poll.

Unless we completely swamp the poll with CalGunners! But, it looks like we aren't all on the same page even here.

Voted: 38% Yes 62% No

sholling
12-20-2012, 12:05 PM
Anyone with a permit should be allowed to carry in school - especially teacher. Frankly I think it should become a requirement to teach.

AeroEngi
12-20-2012, 12:08 PM
I just noticed that you can refresh the page and keep voting.

003
12-20-2012, 12:24 PM
This is important - take a moment and vote.

heyjerr
12-20-2012, 12:52 PM
Just voted
Yes = 40.78% (2816 clicks)
No = 59.22% (4090 clicks)

(and that changed to add 25 more positive clicks by the time it took me to refresh)

kaligaran
12-20-2012, 1:03 PM
41.97% yes

I don't think it should be mandatory but it should be optional.

calif 15-22
12-20-2012, 1:12 PM
Just to clarify, the poll specifically asks "Should teachers who have "concealed weapons" permits be allowed to have guns in schools?", if that makes any difference in your opinion.

I agree IF the teacher has a CCW then yes they should be allowed to carry. But arming ALL teachers is a different matter for me.

Teachers became teachers to teach and especially in Calif the laws would have to dramically change to allow them to get CCWs.

How about other options for security?? State Nation Guards?? County Sheriffs?? I think just a presence of security might be enough. You never hear of shootings at airports or sports arenas where there are way more people but way more security.

Schlyme
12-20-2012, 1:20 PM
I say, let the teachers have their choice. If they choose to be armed, train them and give them LEO credentials just like pilots in cockpits now have. But on top of this, other armed trained security professionals that specially trained(off duty or retired LEOs come to mind) in uniform and/or plain clothed.

mag360
12-20-2012, 1:25 PM
keep it going. we are closing the gap! 45 No /55 yes now or so

heyjerr
12-20-2012, 1:31 PM
I agree that this should be an option for teachers, just like it is for airline pilots. If a teacher doesn't want to be responsible for using/having a firearm, they shouldn't have to. But don't take away that option for those who have the courage to do everything they can to save a child's life.

Stonewalker
12-20-2012, 1:45 PM
It's funny, my high school had an armed campus cop and it was no big thing. Everybody loved him and he always had his gun on his hip. Mind you, this is 2001-2005 and in the tiny town of Arcata, CA.

jamulAK
12-20-2012, 1:56 PM
I just voted, 45 yes-54 No. I think for everyones safety, whoever carries on campus it should be covert until needed. Principal and other carriers if any may know, but absolutely not the students or parents.

Blind
12-20-2012, 2:00 PM
Having done IT support for a high school district for a few years (not my current job) I don't want the average teacher armed with anything more dangerous than a stapler, personally.

I think the front office administration is generally even less capable of knowing which end of a knife is pointy.

All the high school campuses I worked at had one on site police officer every day. I think that's enough, I don't want to live in a 'police state' society.

However, for the more capable teachers that do have a CCW I see no reason they shouldn't have it available to them as an option, however some high school kids are bastards and that teacher would need to take damn good care of that weapon!

kcstott
12-20-2012, 2:06 PM
Not without a boat load of training.
One we don't need a teacher loosing a gun to a pissed off student
two we don't need a teacher having a meltdown and going on a rampage.
I think they should have the option but not with out training.
Same goes for CCW's I don't think it should be Shall issue until you have completed a given level of training and proved your skill.

randian
12-20-2012, 2:08 PM
Why are people not OK with armed teachers, but are OK with people other than teachers being armed? That's totally irrational. A gun is a gun, and emits cooties no matter who carries it. The cootie-phobic should beware.

A guard can be attacked just as easily as a teacher, and they're a lot more visible to bad guys than a teacher concealed carrying. If you know the principal's office has the only gun, guess who gets hit first? Identifying who and what to neutralize is half the battle in an attack on anything.

randian
12-20-2012, 2:11 PM
I just voted, 45 yes-54 No. I think for everyones safety, whoever carries on campus it should be covert until needed. Principal and other carriers if any may know, but absolutely not the students or parents.
Why not parents? Adults with kids can't carry in school, but adults without can? What makes them different?

SkyMag68
12-20-2012, 2:14 PM
Your choice, Psycho with guns or Teachers with gun.I'll pick teacher any day.
Joyce foundation not going to be very happy about the result,lol.:43:

tcd511
12-20-2012, 2:14 PM
47.66 yes / 52.34 no...Gives me hope people aren't as dumb as we think.

SkyMag68
12-20-2012, 2:17 PM
Your choice, Psycho with guns or Teachers with gun.I'll pick teacher any day.
Joyce foundation not going to be very happy about the result,lol.

morfeeis
12-20-2012, 2:32 PM
This is not a good poll, It keeps track of how many (clicks) and lets people vote more than once if they refresh the page.

(I may or may not have voted more than once)
Thanks for the tip.

morfeeis
12-20-2012, 2:42 PM
Having done IT support for a high school district for a few years (not my current job) I don't want the average teacher armed with anything more dangerous than a stapler, personally.

I think the front office administration is generally even less capable of knowing which end of a knife is pointy.

All the high school campuses I worked at had one on site police officer every day. I think that's enough, I don't want to live in a 'police state' society.

However, for the more capable teachers that do have a CCW I see no reason they shouldn't have it available to them as an option, however some high school kids are bastards and that teacher would need to take damn good care of that weapon!

Not without a boat load of training.
One we don't need a teacher loosing a gun to a pissed off student
two we don't need a teacher having a meltdown and going on a rampage.
I think they should have the option but not with out training.
Same goes for CCW's I don't think it should be Shall issue until you have completed a given level of training and proved your skill.

I just don't get this kind of thinking.

hawk1
12-20-2012, 2:42 PM
Yes 49.52% (4,031 Clicks)


No 50.48% (4,109 Clicks)



Total: 8,140

Brianguy
12-20-2012, 2:42 PM
Everyone should carry.

Guntech
12-20-2012, 2:46 PM
Everyone should carry.

this. Everyone. It should be thought of as not only a inalienable right, but also a responsibility.

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. – William S. Burroughs

Mullins
12-20-2012, 2:51 PM
We are in the lead!

(and it will stay that way) :sorcerer:

mt4design
12-20-2012, 2:52 PM
Everyone should carry.

Agreed. I think everyone who wants to should be able to.

We can't discriminate on who should or shouldn't be able to exercise their right.

The problem with schools is they are "gun free zones".

If a teacher wants to carry, they should be trained properly and provided a special permit that allows them to carry on campus.

Mike

SlobRay
12-20-2012, 2:54 PM
What a difference 12 minutes makes

Yes 50.34% (4,168 Clicks)

No 49.66% (4,111 Clicks)

Total: 8,279

Mullins
12-20-2012, 2:58 PM
We have more than 100 lead and growing ;)

Does anyone have any other polls they would like "us" to vote in?

ca1903
12-20-2012, 3:00 PM
Yes 50.62% (4,215 Clicks)

No 49.38% (4,111 Clicks)

just voted and checked.

two, three years back, I talked to a young female teacher of 3rd grade at gun show. she said the school just went through a lock down from police notification. the policy was to lay low. she locked the door, then looked at the windows on the other side; she asked herself what I can use to defend when a bad guy shows up at the window? I may die today protecting the kids, how I wish my gun is in my hand.....

Yes, the teacher in Conneticut is a heroin. But we don't want to make the school teacher a high risk job. They deserve a chance of self-defense.

KarLorian
12-20-2012, 5:14 PM
There has been a big push about ensuring employment for our returning vets over the last few years.

I have also seen multiple times in the last week mentions of a School Marshal program.



I propose a combination of the two.

Create a federal school marshal program which anyone who qualifies can be employed by but one which considers previous military service and experience as prequalifiers for the training that would have to occur before a school marshal could serve.

Since this would be a Federal LEO position, the same screenings and testing/training would be required. To implement the program quickly they could hire vets who performed patrols/check point duties when on tour, the vets would still need to be screened etc but they already have the skill set in place.

School marshals would be plain clothes and carry concealed, and while they are at the school they would be aiding teachers and helping students like this program rotating classrooms each day:
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nightly-news/49011139

If the school marshal also has a teaching cert then they could teach a gun safety class/lesson

They would not be there to actively enforce laws or arrest juvenile delinquents. They would be there to help our teachers and to provide armed resistance in the event of an active shooter/school lock-down. Full time work at the same salary of the teachers. I envision 1 marshal for every couple hundred students with patrol/classroom aid routes that spread them evenly across the school.

Teachers could become reservist marshals after training/qualification and carry at schools and they would get a raise for doing so (to encourage them, besides we don't pay them enough as it is.)

Estimated cost of program:
50,000,000 school age children in the US (http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop1.asp?popup=true)
Ave teacher starting salary $34,772 per year (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All_K-12_Teachers/Salary/by_Job)

50,000,000 / 250 = 200,000 marshals
200,000 x $34772 = $6,954,400,000 per year
While that seems like a lot it only represents about 1.9% of the 2012 $3.54 trillion annual budget. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#Major_expenditure_cat egories)

I know this is a pipe dream but its better than an AWB that only stops new manufacture and sale, or some pie in the sky ban and confiscation. The former would be effect-less and the later is just plain impossible to implement and if implemented it would create a black market of full-autos leading to worse crime.

Rough back of the envelope calc for the cost of confiscation:
roughly 3,000,000 own an AR-15 (see Gene's CBS appearance http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=659436)
super lowball gov market value of $500 each
3,000,000 (without accounting for people owning multiple rifles) x $500 = $1,500,000,000
And that's just for the AR-15, throw in all the other semi-auto "Assault Weapons" and the cost gets closer and closer to cost of the marshal program. Now imagine if they tried to confiscate ALL semi-autos something I've seen lately from the wack-adoos.

VegasND
12-20-2012, 5:17 PM
i just logged in and saw this. Happy to see it's turned around to 'yes' being in the lead.

I hate having to be disarmed and defenseless.

Quiet
12-20-2012, 5:21 PM
Yes = 54.84% (5017)
No = 45.16% (4132)

Kevin S
12-20-2012, 5:24 PM
Just put mine in :)

Best sale
12-20-2012, 5:33 PM
Optional as some already said. If you as a teacher, administrator or what have you think you are capable to carry a concealed weapon and can demonstrate you are capable and vow to be responsible and face maximum penalty incase of an accidental discharge or unconsciously placing it where kids can have access to it within school premises then am all for it.

MOA1
12-20-2012, 5:34 PM
Having security guards or marshals or police in schools is the wrong avenue.

Leave the damn doors open, but know, every teacher has the right to carry a gun if they want to. Provided they have a permit. No special training required but is suggested.

Just that alone will prevent these things from happening, principal will not sacrifice themselves in vain. IF people know that a teacher "may" be armed, that means every teacher is armed regardless if it is true or not.

We will not give an inch, matter of fact it is NOW that we want the anti gun people to give an inch. Make gun free zones illegal, unconstitutional. Exceptions far and few between.

We must not give in at all. Make no concessions, it is they that screwed this thing up and it is they that needs to make concessions.

randian
12-20-2012, 5:38 PM
I have also seen multiple times in the last week mentions of a School Marshal program.

Wrong answer.

1) It concedes that civilian carry in schools shouldn't be allowed
2) It spends more money we don't have
3) It further entrenches Federal control over local matters (schools)

triggatronic
12-20-2012, 5:46 PM
Just put mine in. Funny I use to work for LAUSD and when I would travel to different schools I would often walk right on campus no resistance at all. I always found that a bit strange.


Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X

Maestro Pistolero
12-20-2012, 5:53 PM
I noticed those who support arming teachers give valid reasons. Those against it assert the others are crazy. I say any teacher willing to take POST training gets a big raise if they agree to be a firs responder.

Police officers, brave and true as most are, do not possess magical super-hero powers. If a teacher submits to the same training and vetting as police officers, how is the risk to students any greater than if there was a cop in the classroom?

scarville
12-20-2012, 5:56 PM
Yes 55.41% (5,145 Clicks)

No 44.59% (4,140 Clicks)

Another poll that will be allowed to fade into obscurity...

randian
12-20-2012, 6:00 PM
If a teacher submits to the same training and vetting as police officers, how is the risk to students any greater than if there was a cop in the classroom?
It's not, but by suggesting this you concede that armed civilians who aren't cops are a risk to the students. I'm not willing to concede that.

call-in
12-20-2012, 6:19 PM
Guys, don't forget to vote up what you thinks are the best comments.

miztic
12-20-2012, 6:27 PM
It's so strange how so many people completely lose their objectivity when it comes to 'teh children'.
There should be no gun free zones and carry should be like alaska/vt etc, that's what the 2A says and that's how it should work.

DirtyLaundry
12-20-2012, 6:47 PM
I voted yes.

However, call me a pessimist but I can see the headlines now:

An underpaid, overworked, undertrained...
Teacher pulls gun on class of unruly 8th graders today sparking a new discussion who should have guns and where they should be allowed"

Boy won't that be a fun fight to fight.:)

003
12-20-2012, 6:51 PM
Good to see the vote shows we do have a voice.

huntercf
12-20-2012, 7:10 PM
It should be an option. As a teacher i would be more than willing to go to training to carry. Many would not. Thats fine. It puts an element of surprise into a psychopaths mind- who's carrying who is not. So maybe they find a different target. Those of you that hate schools and teachers because they made you learn things will be against any liberty affirming ideas but i ask you this- why are admin better off armed than teachers? Why are they going to retain their weapons better than a teacher? Most admin i've had can barely retain a twinkee. There will have to be training involved and that will weed out those who can and cannot.

Agreed, I'm also a teacher and to lock my door I have to go outside in the hallway in the path of any shooter. I don't understand why people think it is ok for police to carry on school campuses but teachers shouldn't because there is no way that teachers are capable of using a firearm properly. Administrators are the same as teachers, some of them have less experience and some well you get the picture. The fact is look at it this way: Should adults that are responsible for the safety of children be allowed to carry a firearm to help ensure that safety? The answer should be yes if you think that a police officer is ok to carry on a school campus. Do police and teachers come from the same species...yes they do!

mag360
12-20-2012, 7:10 PM
We win. Iiiiiis niiiiice. :)

IrishPirate
12-20-2012, 7:19 PM
No one is going to read an NRA poll except NRA members....

besides, do you REALLY want teachers with guns??? You can't just hand them a gun and expect them to be able to defend an entire classroom. They will need (and i sure as hell would DEMAND) top of the line training, they would have to qualify on a regular basis, they would need to practice much more than just target shots at the range....and when exactly is this supposed to happen? not all schools take summer break (though i could see break times being ok) and even if you could find the time, how exactly are the schools supposed to pay for the equipment, training, etc when they can't even afford basic school supplies??? A gun in every classroom would be a nice peace of mind, but our schools have many more issues they need to figure out first. While tragic, it's not like shootings happen all the time...many more students drop-out/fail-out every day and turn to a life of crime. Maybe fixing that would decrease the necessity to protect our schools in the first place.

joev2340
12-20-2012, 7:29 PM
56+% yes and 43+% no

DirtyLaundry
12-20-2012, 7:36 PM
A gun in every classroom would be a nice peace of mind, but our schools have many more issues they need to figure out first. While tragic, it's not like shootings happen all the time...many more students drop-out/fail-out every day and turn to a life of crime. Maybe fixing that would decrease the necessity to protect our schools in the first place.

Swish... :)

MOA1
12-20-2012, 7:41 PM
No one is going to read an NRA poll except NRA members....

.

Ya, I think you're right. Where is the NRA poll?

The one I saw is an NPR poll, ya know, National Public Radio. ;)

CBruce
12-20-2012, 7:42 PM
I don't think teachers should be able to..

BUT.. I think the Principal, Vice Principal, and maybe the lead teacher should be able to..

The individual teachers have enough to deal with.. and what if a crazed kid tries to take thier weapon? Besides, the "higher ups" like the Pricipal have more experience typically and thus are more mature.

No one in constant, direct contact with classrooms full of children. Classrooms are distracting enough and I'd rather have our teachers focused on teaching.

Someone with a firearm on school grounds is pretty clearly warranted, but I think dedicated security and/or adminstration is more suited for the task.

skyscraper
12-20-2012, 7:45 PM
yes 57%

randian
12-20-2012, 7:50 PM
besides, do you REALLY want teachers with guns???

Yes. Why not?

You can't just hand them a gun and expect them to be able to defend an entire classroom.

Classrooms aren't exactly dynamic moving environments. Usually only one ingress. Unless the bad guys are shooting through the walls blindly, defense is obvious if you have 10 seconds or so to set up.

If you have no setup time (you're the first classroom to be hit, most likely), I don't see how tactical training matters. As the adult you know they're shooting you first. Draw and pray, everything else is secondary.

I am not suggesting teachers hunt down and engage attackers in other parts of the school. Not only does that leave your charges undefended, but you lose the advantage of your defensive position. Trust that the other armed teachers are taking care of their defensive zone.

They will need (and i sure as hell would DEMAND) top of the line training, they would have to qualify on a regular basis, they would need to practice much more than just target shots at the range
So you don't actually want armed teachers at all? I assure you, while all that sounds nice in theory, in practice conceding any of it means it will be used to prevent any teacher from getting their cert, which is precisely what the anti-gun crowd wanted in the first place.

MOA1
12-20-2012, 7:54 PM
No one in constant, direct contact with classrooms full of children. Classrooms are distracting enough and I'd rather have our teachers focused on teaching.

Someone with a firearm on school grounds is pretty clearly warranted, but I think dedicated security and/or adminstration is more suited for the task.


I think you're wrong. Way wrong.

"pounds on keyboard" :mad:

Argh: Let any teacher that wants to arm themselves do so. Maybe only 5% may chose to do so. From the bad guys standpoint that is 100%, he does not know who might be carrying.

As I beat the **** outta my keyboard..................

Just stop with the special crap, I'll say this sloowwwwllllyyy Lettttt the teachersssss carrryyyyyy iffffffff theyyyyyyyy wannttttttttt tooooooooooo.

Concealed carry, do not let the students know whom is carrying. Just teach, ignore the gun until needed. (hint, it will likely never be needed), just like the fire extinguishers, but they'll be damn glad to have it when they do need it.

And to answer piers morgans BS: No, guns don't just fall out and children don't just grab them and accidentally shoot themselves........... in a fraction of a second.
Cops walk around with guns at schools all the time and they don't fall out and randomly kill children. They must have magnets in their butt cheeks.



Why is this stuff so hard to grasp........... :facepalm:

randian
12-20-2012, 8:01 PM
Classrooms are distracting enough and I'd rather have our teachers focused on teaching.

I find that claim to be quite bizarre. Classrooms are not a distraction, they're the focus of the teacher's attention. A distraction would be something that interrupts that attention, like gunfire. In that case I sure as hell want that teacher distracted from teaching.

Humans are not insects, and are therefore capable of learning new things without losing their ability to teach.

craneman
12-20-2012, 8:04 PM
No one in constant, direct contact with classrooms full of children. Classrooms are distracting enough and I'd rather have our teachers focused on teaching.

Someone with a firearm on school grounds is pretty clearly warranted, but I think dedicated security and/or adminstration is more suited for the task.

The teachers in Israel are armed. The students there seem to test above ours on average, so evidently they must not be that distracted. If you don't draw the students attention to it, they won't be distracted. Teachers are responsible for the safety of our children when they are at school. If that means being armed against someone that would do what this sick piece of trash did in Conneticut, so be it. As stated above, not ALL teachers need to be armed, but I would hope a few in each school would have the ability and mind set to be.

Meplat
12-20-2012, 8:05 PM
I much rather have a school marshel than teachers carrying.

Make sure he wears a uniform and makes regular rounds also.:rolleyes: Personally I would like to see teachers able to carry if they want, but I would rather see classified employees (cooks, bus drivers, janitors, etc.) carry. You never know where they may be and they donít have a responsibility for the supervision and well being of a specific set of students virtually all day long. A teacher cannot leave his students to run to the sound of the guns so to speak.

donny douchebag
12-20-2012, 8:10 PM
The teachers in Israel are armed.

They are not. In fact the prevalence of firearms in Israeli society outside the IDF is nowhere near what most here seem to think. Not even close.

Meplat
12-20-2012, 8:15 PM
It should be an option. As a teacher i would be more than willing to go to training to carry. Many would not. Thats fine. It puts an element of surprise into a psychopaths mind- who's carrying who is not. So maybe they find a different target. Those of you that hate schools and teachers because they made you learn things will be against any liberty affirming ideas but i ask you this- why are admin better off armed than teachers? Why are they going to retain their weapons better than a teacher? Most admin i've had can barely retain a twinkee. There will have to be training involved and that will weed out those who can and cannot.

That has been my experience as well.
Only those employees who actually want, with a positive spirit, to do it should be enlisted. I donít care if they be teacher or janitor.

A school cop is just a target.

rla_2000
12-20-2012, 8:20 PM
Cast my vote. Also heard the bit on NPR on my way home around 5:15pm tonight. They followed it with a letter written by a girl in Oakland who is for Gun Control. Her letter basically admitted all the people she knows have a criminal record and they have their family members get the guns for them and grind off the serial numbers.

Meplat
12-20-2012, 8:23 PM
Is the 2nd Amend. Related Legal & Political Discussion forum turning into Off Topic, or what? Now polls and general stuff?

:)

Get over yourself already.:rolleyes:

This goes to affermativly supporting 2A politically in the wider community.

hoozaru
12-20-2012, 8:25 PM
It doesn't matter what the poll is really like, the media will always tell you "Most Americans favor gun control measures"

SideWinder11
12-20-2012, 8:29 PM
57 yes 42 no :)

Meplat
12-20-2012, 8:32 PM
NPR demographics ensure we'll never win that poll.

We are ahead right now!:43:

Meplat
12-20-2012, 8:42 PM
Not without a boat load of training.
One we don't need a teacher loosing a gun to a pissed off student
two we don't need a teacher having a meltdown and going on a rampage.
I think they should have the option but not with out training.
Same goes for CCW's I don't think it should be Shall issue until you have completed a given level of training and proved your skill.

What is stopping you from losing your gun to a high school student or having a meltdown? I never could figure out people who think everyone but themselves is irresponsible.:rolleyes:

Meplat
12-20-2012, 8:46 PM
Not without a boat load of training.
One we don't need a teacher loosing a gun to a pissed off student
two we don't need a teacher having a meltdown and going on a rampage.
I think they should have the option but not with out training.
Same goes for CCW's I don't think it should be Shall issue until you have completed a given level of training and proved your skill.

What is stopping you from losing your gun to a high school student or having a meltdown? I never could figure out people who think everyone but themselves is irresponsible.

Meplat
12-20-2012, 9:03 PM
Agreed, I'm also a teacher and to lock my door I have to go outside in the hallway in the path of any shooter. I don't understand why people think it is ok for police to carry on school campuses but teachers shouldn't because there is no way that teachers are capable of using a firearm properly. Administrators are the same as teachers, some of them have less experience and some well you get the picture. The fact is look at it this way: Should adults that are responsible for the safety of children be allowed to carry a firearm to help ensure that safety? The answer should be yes if you think that a police officer is ok to carry on a school campus. Do police and teachers come from the same species...yes they do!

I submit that in light of modern trends in training and attitudes of LE the teacher is going to be more focused on child safety and the cop more focused on officer safety.

cranemech
12-20-2012, 9:23 PM
No one is going to read an NRA poll except NRA members....

besides, do you REALLY want teachers with guns??? You can't just hand them a gun and expect them to be able to defend an entire classroom. They will need (and i sure as hell would DEMAND) top of the line training, they would have to qualify on a regular basis, they would need to practice much more than just target shots at the range....and when exactly is this supposed to happen? not all schools take summer break (though i could see break times being ok) and even if you could find the time, how exactly are the schools supposed to pay for the equipment, training, etc when they can't even afford basic school supplies??? A gun in every classroom would be a nice peace of mind, but our schools have many more issues they need to figure out first. While tragic, it's not like shootings happen all the time...many more students drop-out/fail-out every day and turn to a life of crime. Maybe fixing that would decrease the necessity to protect our schools in the first place.



http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/signaturepics/sigpic38062_1.gif <<<<<<<<< THIS

It's a NPR poll, not a NRA poll.

The poll is asking if teachers with a CCW should be allowed to carry, it's not like they want to issue every teacher a gun.

If a person takes on the responsibility of a LTC I would hope they seek out training, take the time to practice, etc. whether they are a teacher or not.

BTW we are still ahead in the poll. :)

Malamute
12-20-2012, 9:23 PM
No one is going to read an NRA poll except NRA members....

besides, do you REALLY want teachers with guns??? You can't just hand them a gun and expect them to be able to defend an entire classroom. They will need (and i sure as hell would DEMAND) top of the line training, they would have to qualify on a regular basis, they would need to practice much more than just target shots at the range....and when exactly is this supposed to happen? not all schools take summer break (though i could see break times being ok) and even if you could find the time, how exactly are the schools supposed to pay for the equipment, training, etc when they can't even afford basic school supplies??? A gun in every classroom would be a nice peace of mind, but our schools have many more issues they need to figure out first. While tragic, it's not like shootings happen all the time...many more students drop-out/fail-out every day and turn to a life of crime. Maybe fixing that would decrease the necessity to protect our schools in the first place.

So, there isn't any possible good that could come of it?

Nobody said "just hand them a gun".

Nobody said "A gun in every classroom".

Nobdoy said the school was buying guns.

It's not the schools financial responsibilty to buy an individual teacher a gun, when that teacher has a carry permit. Most individuals that have permits and carry buy their own.

Some of your comments sound like rationalization " it's not like shootings happen all the time...". No, I suppose not, so should we just pretend theres no reason to take better security precautions?

"Top of the line training"? Like police have? That's not that great in many places. Many citizens have better training than police, and sadly, a great many police officers are not very good shooters. Getting decent training isn't that tough. Perhaps teachers should be encouraged to have some higher level of training than the average person on the street with a permit. The school district could help defray that cost to motivated teachers. I think pay bonuses for teachers that have the aptitude and abilty isn't a bad idea either.

Meplat
12-20-2012, 9:24 PM
The polls were closed at 57.74 YES V 42.26 NO!:D

Malamute
12-20-2012, 9:28 PM
The polls were closed at 57.74 YES V 42.26 NO!:D

Interesting. Wonder if we'll hear about it on the radio?

Their programs have had an awful lot of anti nonsense this past week. There's been some real bad mis- and dis-information.

DirtyLaundry
12-20-2012, 9:48 PM
Interesting. Wonder if we'll hear about it on the radio?

Their programs have had an awful lot of anti nonsense this past week. There's been some real bad mis- and dis-information.

NPR has actually been pretty generous to the pro-2A crowd through all of this from what I've heard. They have knowledgeable pro-2A guests and give them time to speak and address accusations/problems/etc.

It's just that there is a constant barrage of 'soccer moms' and 'think of the children calls/emails/texts in that they take or read.

I ws listening to a program the other day and they were talking about teachers carrying in the classroom. All the callers were up in arms about "sending their kids to a warzone/shootout/call of duty match" when they send them to school.

I couldn't help but place my palm on my face and shake my head.:facepalm:

Also, I like your name. :)

Meplat
12-20-2012, 9:48 PM
Interesting. Wonder if we'll hear about it on the radio?

Their programs have had an awful lot of anti nonsense this past week. There's been some real bad mis- and dis-information.

I doubt that it will be released to the great unwashed. But then it deprives them of the opportunity to release what it would have been had CGN not shown up to register our opinions!

Most importantly it demonstrates to the statists that we are alive, awake, and ready to ride to the sound of the guns. That could well quell some of their more far reaching ambitions.

donny douchebag
12-20-2012, 9:55 PM
Lmfao. All it demonstrates is we know how manipulate a worthless poll by refreshing the page or clearing a cookie.

bluewrx
12-20-2012, 10:20 PM
I am a high school math teacher. I will take any bullet or bullets for any of my students, 174 of them to be exact. If giving me a choice to protect my students, I would carry my Glock 20 any day of the week. Just imagine yourself as one of the six adults at Sandy Hook, would you rather have a gun or your body to protect those children. Yes I agree that not all teachers are willing or capable of carrying guns, but some of us are, with proper training. It is not any different than having LE on our campus, except we are already there, 8 to 12 hours, Monday to Friday and some Saturdays.

If we can live in a gun free society, please sign me up. Realistically that is not possible. There is a saying that states "if you can not beat, it joint it". There is only one mean to stop any bed guy who is willing commit suicide to murder our children, and you all know what that is.

As yourself this equation, are you willing to protect your own children with guns, if a bed guy comes in your house and about to kill them. If your answer is "yes" now you know how I feel. The only different is I have 174 of them in a very small room with only one entrance/exit.

Meplat
12-20-2012, 10:22 PM
Lmfao. All it demonstrates is we know how manipulate a worthless poll by refreshing the page or clearing a cookie.

I manipulated nothing and only voted once.

Meplat
12-20-2012, 10:35 PM
Funny I thought the same thing when people started talking about requiring POST and such. I have been the first line of defense for my family for decades and never felt I needed POST. I would rather have an average level headed person with basic safety training and a gun in my kidís classroom than an unarmed person who has passed the POST!


I am a high school math teacher. I will take any bullet or bullets for any of my students, 174 of them to be exact. If giving me a choice to protect my students, I would carry my Glock 20 any day of the week. Just imagine yourself as one of the six adults at Sandy Hook, would you rather have a gun or your body to protect those children. Yes I agree that not all teachers are willing or capable of carrying guns, but some of us are, with proper training. It is not any different than having LE on our campus, except we are already there, 8 to 12 hours, Monday to Friday and some Saturdays.

If we can live in a gun free society, please sign me up. Realistically that is not possible. There is a saying that states "if you can not beat, it joint it". There is only one mean to stop any bed guy who is willing commit suicide to murder our children, and you all know what that is.

As yourself this equation, are you willing to protect your own children with guns, if a bed guy comes in your house and about to kill them. If your answer is "yes" now you know how I feel. The only different is I have 174 of them in a very small room with only one entrance/exit.

five.five-six
12-20-2012, 10:42 PM
Wow, the yea have it

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2

Nessal
12-20-2012, 10:45 PM
Commies at NPR closed the poll when we were about to sweep it. Figures.

pratchett
12-20-2012, 11:29 PM
I much rather have a school marshel than teachers carrying.

We haven't had new textbooks in a decade.

TEN. YEARS.

Are you really saying we should piss away money to implement a TSA at my elementary school so the kids in my class are 'safe' while they read the exciting news of how we just this year invaded Afghanistan and arrested John Walker Lindh? Maybe this new "Marshel" Service you're envisioning could have the 1st graders take off their shoes before going through the body scanners. I'm going to throw a clot.

No. The answer is not a new federal or state agency with inflated egos and a fatal case of mission creep. The answer is simple:

If a teacher has a CCW, lift the restriction so that teacher can carry on campus.

Malamute
12-21-2012, 6:52 AM
NPR has actually been pretty generous to the pro-2A crowd through all of this from what I've heard. They have knowledgeable pro-2A guests and give them time to speak and address accusations/problems/etc.

It's just that there is a constant barrage of 'soccer moms' and 'think of the children calls/emails/texts in that they take or read.

I ws listening to a program the other day and they were talking about teachers carrying in the classroom. All the callers were up in arms about "sending their kids to a warzone/shootout/call of duty match" when they send them to school.

I couldn't help but place my palm on my face and shake my head.:facepalm:

Also, I like your name. :)


I agree they are much better in providing a balance than most give them credit for, but most of the opinion, or feeling of the presenters or program hosts I've heard this past week, and the majority of the reports have tended towards the anti side. Not 100%, but more than a real balance.

In my area, NPR is the best general news and statewide weather, and mix of music and programming, not to menton just not having obnoxious commercials. The local news often covers gun issues and hunting when they come up, from a more local type aspect (meaning not as far left) than NPR stations I've heard in other areas. This past week has seen some pretty heavy anti leaning though from the national network.

...and thanks, I like my namesakes,

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/dog16.jpg

FF/EMT Nick
12-21-2012, 7:48 AM
^^^^^^^^^that is one happy looking pup^^^^^^^^^

i love how this debate always brings up that only LEO should be carrying guns. Every LEO that I know marvels at how much of a better shot i am than them. even on tactical courses. BTW iv'e never seen the inside of a POST classroom.

If a teacher has the will, the liscense, and the weapon....they should carry. period.

pHredd9mm
12-21-2012, 8:31 AM
Back in the 1960's when I was in Jr. High and High School I knew of several men teachers who carried firearms in my school in Washington state. Some in briefcases, some open carry, a couple concealed carry. They were all math teachers and/or sports coaches. They also knew how to deal with students, including using a paddle on their behinds if necessary. And yes, our high school had an NRA shooting team and a shooting range under the gym. No one EVER got hurt with firearms. I used to carry a .22 target rifle on the school bus and just checked it into the school office when I arrived at school -- not for safety, but for convenience so I didn't have to carry it around school all day. How did I know the men carried concealed? They came down to the on campus shooting range (under the gym) to practice and let us try out their gear. Heck, we even had rifles and shotguns in the back of our cars and trucks parked on the school campus during hunting season.

WHAT IN THE HE11 HAS HAPPENED TO OUR SOCIETY IN THE LAST 40-50 YEARS?? The courts took God and the paddle out of the classroom and they were replaced by left wing feel-good unions in our schools instead. :oji:

KON5T
12-21-2012, 8:40 AM
The problem with armed guards is that it will quickly descend into a situation similar to the TSA, where complete retards get a job and start abusing their authority. Some of the cops they hire these days are bad enough, and there is some vetting that goes on there. Private security guards are often much much worse (not knocking all cops, only the Aholes)

Giving teachers the choice to ccw is a much better option. Those who are up to it will, those who do not want to be involved wont.

Hopalong
12-21-2012, 8:54 AM
I didn't read all the threads

But it's silly to think that someone with a teaching credential

Couldn't learn and train with a firearm, if they are willing

Secondly, no one needs to know who is armed

There was a principal of a Texas school on tv this morning who said that some of his teachers were armed

When asked by the interviewer if he was armed

He said, "we don't give out that information"

Nobody sees any guns, nobody knows anything

This principal said that the parents of these children were happy that their kids were being protected

That is the mindset of rural Texas

El Toro
12-21-2012, 9:17 AM
Interesting. Wonder if we'll hear about it on the radio?

Their programs have had an awful lot of anti nonsense this past week. There's been some real bad mis- and dis-information.

I predict that the poll and web page will mysteriously disapear. And I strongly disagree with the posts above declaring NPR to be pro-gun or favorable or even-handed. The vast majority such as Insley, Olney, the guy that does Left,Right,and Center are huge LibTards. Programming and Reporting are left-leaning and most are bleeding heart "human interest" tripe that often celebrate the progressive dream.

Listened to them for 15 years every mornng drive and every afternoon. Only USCs Marketwatch was non-partisan until probably 2008 after which I have listened only rarely.

jfreakofkorn
12-21-2012, 3:25 PM
They should have an armed individual at all school(s) and campus(s) not matter at who it is....

They shouldve done this a LONG TIME AGO ..... We had plenty of flag(s) for it ....

Tiberius
12-21-2012, 10:00 PM
there are some rays of hope out there. Scanning the Huffpost boards, lots of folks make the 2A case. And then an NPR poll goes against the antis . . . .

There is a very vocal group - apparently a minority - seeking to politicize the recent CT tragedy for their own political ends. Despite our collective fears, and the universal horror at the tragedy itself, it may not work.

Tiberius
12-21-2012, 10:00 PM
there are some rays of hope out there. Scanning the Huffpost boards, lots of folks make the 2A case. And then an NPR poll goes against the antis . . . .

There is a very vocal group - apparently a minority - seeking to politicize the recent CT tragedy for their own political ends. Despite our collective fears, and the universal horror at the tragedy itself, it may not work.

hellayella
12-21-2012, 10:24 PM
I vote NO, what if the teacher flips out and goes bananas...i'm for armed law enforcement though, haha..schools looking more like jails

wolfwood
12-22-2012, 12:01 AM
It really is a decision for local school boards to decide on. You check your civil rights at the door when you show up for work. That is for sure. I'd want some sort of mandatory training program for all teachers in how to deal with situations like this if I were a Superintendent. Then have a opt in for part of the class on tactical shooting if you wish to partcipate, in my case in San Diego's say armed teacher program. Every teacher armed or unarmed, should know how to control their students and bar the doors. Nothing fancy but we pay for these people to have a 3 month vacation. Maybe we could have a yearly 2 week AT that covers first aid, CPR, emergency drills etc. The teachers would go on strike where I live if you implemented that but that is a different issue.

Keith(CA)
12-22-2012, 12:07 AM
I vote NO, what if the teacher flips out and goes bananas...i'm for armed law enforcement though, haha..schools looking more like jails
What's to keep any legally armed citizen from flipping out and going bananas? You're basing your decision based on an imaginary extreme. The anti lobby is really good at putting out these extreme "what if" situations every time gun laws are about to be relaxed, predicting blood in the streets, but their fears never materialize.

Really, though, if an armed teacher is getting ready to snap and go postal they would do well to consider that there are several more of their peers similarly armed and willing to respond and put them down within seconds of starting a rampage. It's a deterrent to anyone from becoming an active shooter, including a teacher or staff. Maybe it could have even saved the life of that Placerville elementary school principal killed by a janitor early last year.

VegasND
12-22-2012, 5:14 AM
What if the 'armed law enforcement flips out and goes bananas'??????
I vote NO, what if the teacher flips out and goes bananas...i'm for armed law enforcement though, haha..schools looking more like jails

Another post with an assumption that LEO are somehow superior to all others.

VAReact
12-22-2012, 6:30 AM
Despite us winning the poll, it really is meaningless, as NPR states on their website: "Note: That's just a question, not a survey of public opinion." :rolleyes:

Malamute
12-22-2012, 7:45 AM
I predict that the poll and web page will mysteriously disapear. And I strongly disagree with the posts above declaring NPR to be pro-gun or favorable or even-handed. The vast majority such as Insley, Olney, the guy that does Left,Right,and Center are huge LibTards. Programming and Reporting are left-leaning and most are bleeding heart "human interest" tripe that often celebrate the progressive dream.

Listened to them for 15 years every mornng drive and every afternoon. Only USCs Marketwatch was non-partisan until probably 2008 after which I have listened only rarely.

Nobody said they were pro-gun, or even well balanced, just more so than most expect. They do have some good pro-gun people on at times, the guy that wrote the book "more guns, less crime" was on a couple days ago (he made some very good points also), but was counter balanced by two or three antis in the same program. I think they lean way more left of center, but not quite as bad as most seem to assume.

I'm not familiar with left-right-center program, it isn't aired on the two stations I can pick up (from Mont and Wyo). I agree there are some real left leaning weiners hosting their shows. One thats aired whre I am is called "on point". He doesn't even pretend to be balanced. He gives air to callers that dont agree with him (and doesnt cut them off and ridicule them like the extra-right radio guy), but his bias is evident and strong.

pratchett
12-22-2012, 12:59 PM
I vote NO, what if the teacher flips out and goes bananas...i'm for armed law enforcement though, haha..schools looking more like jails

I'm glad my civil rights aren't up to a vote, and I'm glad you're not voting on whether I get to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights. And you want an armed guard in every school, huh? In my average-sized district, that's $2 MILLION a year in paychecks alone.

And how does a teacher with a CCW make a school look like a jail? Are you equating a teacher carrying CONCEALED with a permit, to a uniformed guard twirling a baton or a guy with a shotgun in a guard tower?

:facepalm:

Bobio
12-22-2012, 1:03 PM
I don't support arming teachers or staff. I want 100% of their energy focused on teaching our kids. The relationship between teachers and kids is strained enough.

liberallyloaded
12-22-2012, 1:12 PM
As a teacher, this has been interesting to read. I teach in a diverse urban school district that has a lot of problems, and based on some of the teachers we have, I would not feel comfortable if all teachers were allowed to carry... At all. However, I will weigh in and say that it might work if staff members were nominated by their peers and administrators and the nominated folks were voted on by the staff.

randian
12-22-2012, 2:38 PM
I want 100% of their energy focused on teaching our kids.

I've read plenty of this kind of thinking, but I am at a loss as to what it actually means. Just how much "energy" do you think it takes to carry a sidearm? I don't see how it takes much more energy than wearing clothes.

The relationship between teachers and kids is strained enough.

What "relationship" is that? Why would it "strain" said relationship for the kids to know their teacher has their back?

call-in
12-22-2012, 4:42 PM
I don't support arming teachers or staff. I want 100% of their energy focused on teaching our kids. The relationship between teachers and kids is strained enough.

Thank you for your opinion but but it is a bit OT because the poll question was "Should teachers who have concealed weapons permits be allowed to have guns in schools?"

I am not in favor of forcing teachers to to carry a firearm if that person is not comfortable with the idea, but I would definitely support allowing teachers to carry if they want to.