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View Full Version : Appearances can be deceiving


Knomad
12-19-2012, 10:29 PM
It's sometimes tempting to fall into stereotyping... gun control folks do it, and probably we do too. But yesterday I was reminded that we shouldn't assume that just because someone dresses or acts a certain way, that they automatically are anti or pro gun. We need to listen first, before drawing conclusions.

Here's what happened: On the fringes of Berkeley, I ran into a casual acquaintance, a friend of a friend. She's a singer in an alternative band, an intellectual, mid-20s, was wearing a short black skirt, torn stockings, knee-high black boots with six-inch stiletto heels, some sort of a black mesh top, and tons of makeup (yes, I have some interesting acquaintances). Within minutes, she went off on a gun-murder related rant... which turned out not to be at all what I expected.

Turns out that a few days ago, one of her close childhood friends was killed by a boyfriend, who then killed himself. With a gun. The rant went from there to helpless kids in CT, as one might expect.

Then the twist: She didn't blame the guns. She didn't ask for tougher gun laws. Instead, she said, in essence, that the blame lies with the individuals who made those decisions to harm others. She called them "uncivilized" and talked about personal responsibility.

Turns out she's pro-gun. She shoots sometimes, would own a gun if she could afford one. Losing a friend to gun violence didn't change that. She's still pro-gun. It's logical, really; if a friend dies in a car accident, most of us wouldn't suggest banning cars, we'd be more likely to blame the driver.

She's off at the funeral now, dealing with her acknowledged anger at the shooter, and has promised to talk to me some more about it once she's returned to California and had time to sort out her thoughts. She's posted some of this on a blog, the only reason I'm not linking is that the writing actually has much less clarity than what she told me in person, apparently the intervening 12 hours were enough for her to begin to pull her thoughts together. Should be interesting to see what a few more days will bring.

So... sometimes we find friends in unexpected places. She has a fairly large following, lots of people read what she writes, lots of people hear what she says. The fact that she's strongly pro-gun in the face of personal pain will not be lost on those who admire her; and she can reach an audience that most gun owners cannot.

It's made me wonder who else among my acquaintances might not fit whatever stereotype many would assume based on looks or dress or the circles they move within.

nicki
12-20-2012, 12:19 AM
The Calguns community is in fact diverse, we have a core of people here who definitely don't fit the typical "gun owner" mode.;)

Nicki

IVC
12-20-2012, 12:46 AM
Nicki, the OP is new and might not get your hint and the wink.

bigcalidave
12-20-2012, 1:30 AM
I think one of the wonders of Calguns is the diversity that we see in members here.

nicki
12-20-2012, 2:05 AM
Nicki, the OP is new and might not get your hint and the wink.

The poster may not have made many posts, but they have been here since Feb 2012.

Just having some fun, what can I say, I'm just bad.:43:
Besides, we have thick skins here, now our opponents are the other hand.

Nicki

daveblandston6
12-20-2012, 3:41 AM
Maybe not so surprising. I wouldn't expect anyone who thinks for himself to be too involved in pop culture, which is specifically designed to appeal to those who wish to be told what to think. Interesting observation.

* * * Please ignore the Charlie's Angels picture above * * *

Mulay El Raisuli
12-20-2012, 6:17 AM
Maybe not so surprising. I wouldn't expect anyone who thinks for himself to be too involved in pop culture, which is specifically designed to appeal to those who wish to be told what to think. Interesting observation.

* * * Please ignore the Charlie's Angels picture above * * *


I guess this answers the question: Some of us here DO stereotype!


The Raisuli

voiceofreason
12-20-2012, 6:23 AM
The Calguns community is in fact diverse, we have a core of people here who definitely don't fit the typical "gun owner" mode.;)

Nicki

You mean we're not all old, fat, bald white guys with beards wearing camouflage pants and a crusty old NRA cap all the time?

The majority of Calgunners I've met have been young asian males in their 20s who just started as gun owners only a few years ago.

What do we need to do to get more women to support guns and Calguns?

(I am not a woman)

Curley Red
12-20-2012, 6:57 AM
It's sometimes tempting to fall into stereotyping... gun control folks do it, and probably we do too.

Probably? Try every freaking day. There is not a single day that goes by that someone on here generalizes or stereotypes. Try making a post about gay rights and see all the stupid comments that get posted. Or how all liberals are anti gun folk. Or how all republicans are pro gun. This is one of the worst places for stereotyping.

jwkincal
12-20-2012, 8:49 AM
There is not a single day that goes by that someone on here generalizes or stereotypes.

Today it was Curley's turn.

ibanezfoo
12-20-2012, 10:12 AM
he's a singer in an alternative band, an intellectual, mid-20s, was wearing a short black skirt, torn stockings, knee-high black boots with six-inch stiletto heels, some sort of a black mesh top, and tons of makeup (yes, I have some interesting acquaintances).

Pics or a more detailed description please.

:D

erik_26
12-20-2012, 10:16 AM
I am all for all walks of life that support and respect all rights and freedoms.

Curley Red
12-20-2012, 10:21 AM
Today it was Curley's turn.

Really, I can find a post every single day on this board where someone does that. But I know the truth is something you would rather ignore amongst your fellow gun folks.

biggestez
12-20-2012, 10:25 AM
Just to weigh in here. I know of at least six secular humanist/ atheists who are pro gun and believe in individual liberty. I was set for a full on debate with them and surprised to find their stance on the subject. However i know of two republican Protestant friends who have graduated from seminary that are staunchly apposed . You just never know.

jwkincal
12-20-2012, 10:32 AM
Really, I can find a post every single day on this board where someone does that.

Perhaps you could, but you didn't, in which case you are just as guilty as those you are unjustly lumping together with those remarks. If you are unable to see the irony in that then perhaps you need to be more careful in how you generalize when talking about those who don't share your views.

If you purport to hold the forensic high ground you have to be willing to be held to your own standard.

berg
12-20-2012, 10:36 AM
If we are talking about political stereotyping, most of the gun owners I know are registered Democrats. I also know some anti-gun Republicans.

biggestez
12-20-2012, 10:39 AM
Stereo typing comes in many forms. That is why we as gun owners when defending our rights need to stick with the facts and keep calm.

daveblandston6
12-20-2012, 3:22 PM
I guess this answers the question: Some of us here DO stereotype!


The Raisuli

OK, my sense of humor didn't work out in print and/or I didn't express myself well. I didn't mean any offense and I'm only here to try to do my part to help further the cause of gun rights.

For the younger folks in the audience who aren't familiar with Charlie's Angels, in its time it was total "pop culture." The joke's on me - I don't take myself too seriously. There are plenty of other things to worry about!

stix213
12-20-2012, 3:28 PM
I like to drive my Prius to the gun range and break out the AR/AK's. Occasionally gets some looks.

Yes stereotypes are rarely black and white true.

IVC
12-20-2012, 3:56 PM
I like to drive my Prius to the gun range and break out the AR/AK's. Occasionally gets some looks.

See, we welcome gay people too without any stereotyping. :)

Trenchfoot
12-20-2012, 4:02 PM
My former Army Ranger roommate and self proclaimed "gun nut" gets funny looks when he tells people he is a kindergarden teacher.

Guntech
12-20-2012, 4:06 PM
It's sometimes tempting to fall into stereotyping... gun control folks do it, and probably we do too. But yesterday I was reminded that we shouldn't assume that just because someone dresses or acts a certain way, that they automatically are anti or pro gun. We need to listen first, before drawing conclusions.

Here's what happened: On the fringes of Berkeley, I ran into a casual acquaintance, a friend of a friend. She's a singer in an alternative band, an intellectual, mid-20s, was wearing a short black skirt, torn stockings, knee-high black boots with six-inch stiletto heels, some sort of a black mesh top, and tons of makeup (yes, I have some interesting acquaintances). Within minutes, she went off on a gun-murder related rant... which turned out not to be at all what I expected.

Turns out that a few days ago, one of her close childhood friends was killed by a boyfriend, who then killed himself. With a gun. The rant went from there to helpless kids in CT, as one might expect.

Then the twist: She didn't blame the guns. She didn't ask for tougher gun laws. Instead, she said, in essence, that the blame lies with the individuals who made those decisions to harm others. She called them "uncivilized" and talked about personal responsibility.

Turns out she's pro-gun. She shoots sometimes, would own a gun if she could afford one. Losing a friend to gun violence didn't change that. She's still pro-gun. It's logical, really; if a friend dies in a car accident, most of us wouldn't suggest banning cars, we'd be more likely to blame the driver.

She's off at the funeral now, dealing with her acknowledged anger at the shooter, and has promised to talk to me some more about it once she's returned to California and had time to sort out her thoughts. She's posted some of this on a blog, the only reason I'm not linking is that the writing actually has much less clarity than what she told me in person, apparently the intervening 12 hours were enough for her to begin to pull her thoughts together. Should be interesting to see what a few more days will bring.

So... sometimes we find friends in unexpected places. She has a fairly large following, lots of people read what she writes, lots of people hear what she says. The fact that she's strongly pro-gun in the face of personal pain will not be lost on those who admire her; and she can reach an audience that most gun owners cannot.

It's made me wonder who else among my acquaintances might not fit whatever stereotype many would assume based on looks or dress or the circles they move within.


Sounds logical. The way I see it, you shouldn't be able to sue Ford if joe blow crashes into a school bus that bursts into flames. Same thing should apply to guns, but they have been villainized and made evil in the media who says we glorify them.

TempleKnight
12-20-2012, 4:51 PM
Really, I can find a post every single day on this board where someone does that. But I know the truth is something you would rather ignore amongst your fellow gun folks.

I guess I'm guilty of stereotyping. I assumed all of your posts are Bush/republican bashing. Pls accept my apologies for misjudging.

Mulay El Raisuli
12-21-2012, 4:01 AM
OK, my sense of humor didn't work out in print and/or I didn't express myself well. I didn't mean any offense and I'm only here to try to do my part to help further the cause of gun rights.

For the younger folks in the audience who aren't familiar with Charlie's Angels, in its time it was total "pop culture." The joke's on me - I don't take myself too seriously. There are plenty of other things to worry about!


Humor over the 'net is always a bit dicey. No offense taken. I hope you don't take offense at my mis-reading.


The Raisuli

biggestez
12-21-2012, 5:10 AM
Just throw in a a few lol's here and there when joking. Or use the emoticons. Thats the new way of showing emotion. Lol. I think us older folks need internet etiquette. Im still learning what all these damn abbreviations are!

biggestez
12-21-2012, 5:10 AM
Etiquette classes i meant.

tcrpe
12-21-2012, 6:26 AM
I guess this answers the question: Some of us here DO stereotype!


The Raisuli


Stereotyping can be a very efficient tool.

Hoooper
12-21-2012, 7:27 AM
its not like stereotyping is anything owned by this forum, every single forum I have ever been on, from import cars, crotch rocket, hardcore 4x4, they all are full of stereotyping. Its just a function of people hidden behind keyboards. plus it provides for good laughs most of the time

Decoligny
12-21-2012, 8:57 AM
You mean we're not all old, fat, bald white guys with beards wearing camouflage pants and a crusty old NRA cap all the time?

The majority of Calgunners I've met have been young asian males in their 20s who just started as gun owners only a few years ago.

What do we need to do to get more women to support guns and Calguns?

(I am not a woman)

52 is not old!
It's thinning, I am not yet bald!
100% spot on with the beard.
I quit wearing camouflage pants when I retired from the Military and I didn't HAVE TO wear them any more.
No NRA cap either.

IVC
12-21-2012, 10:49 AM
^^^ How do you stand on the "fat" part, he, he...

sandman21
12-21-2012, 10:57 AM
Round is a shape ;)

gun toting monkeyboy
12-21-2012, 11:27 AM
Well, I can't grow a beard to save my life. I don't have an NRA cap. And I haven't worn camouflage since deer season...

As for the OP:

:useless:


-Mb


You mean we're not all old, fat, bald white guys with beards wearing camouflage pants and a crusty old NRA cap all the time?

The majority of Calgunners I've met have been young asian males in their 20s who just started as gun owners only a few years ago.

What do we need to do to get more women to support guns and Calguns?

(I am not a woman)

Decoligny
12-21-2012, 10:48 PM
^^^ How do you stand on the "fat" part, he, he...

Not too badly.
Weight while active duty was 215.
Weight now is 220.
Max a few years back just under 250.

sharxbyte
12-22-2012, 12:59 AM
sad story, but a glimmer of hope.

velmingrafter
12-22-2012, 7:38 AM
Not everyone from Berkeley is a liberal gun grabber! I was born and raised in Berkeley, even went to college with the Naked Guy. You would think that after all the indoctrination, I would be an anti gun socialist. Although I don't look it, I am a total gun nut!

Luieburger
12-22-2012, 7:40 AM
I've been surprised by my friends too. I've had left-leaning friends who became gun owners themselves after going to the range with me. I've also taken 100% pure evangelical conservatives to the range with me only to hear them say later that "assault weapons" should be banned.

a1c
12-22-2012, 8:27 AM
Yup, plenty of us pro-gun "progressives", including on this board.

We're probably some of the best allies the 2A has, because we expose a lot of anti-gun liberals to guns and gun rights, who can't just dismiss us because we're, "you know, right wing nutjobs". We're left-wing nutjobs. With guns. We speak the same language as those lefties. And that's how we turn a lot of them into gun owners.

curtisfong
12-22-2012, 11:55 PM
Yup, plenty of us pro-gun "progressives", including on this board.

We're probably some of the best allies the 2A has, because we expose a lot of anti-gun liberals to guns and gun rights, who can't just dismiss us because we're, "you know, right wing nutjobs". We're left-wing nutjobs. With guns. We speak the same language as those lefties. And that's how we turn a lot of them into gun owners.

Until the R's get their collective sh1t together in CA (or SCOTUS administers the final smackdown), this is the only chance the 2A has in this state.

safewaysecurity
12-23-2012, 12:24 AM
In shape, young, atheist, non-Caucasian, non-hunting, male here.