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View Full Version : What happens to open orders if a ban is implemented?


L84CABO
12-19-2012, 5:59 PM
I realize there are lots of unknowns here. But let's say I go into a gun store today and place an order for an AR15 and pay for it in full. What would happen if a ban were to get implemented before the gun was ready? Let's assume it's a ban of the 1994 variety and not one that requires you to turn in all existing guns as well.

Would I still be allowed to take possession of the rifle when it's ready?

glock7
12-19-2012, 6:23 PM
I don't believe you anything to worry about. Purchase with confidence.

dieselpower
12-19-2012, 6:25 PM
the rifle isnt yours until the 10 day wait and DROS is over...so you get your money back - a restocking fee.

1911Operator
12-19-2012, 6:32 PM
i see on the news that Obama is going to be submitting a ban to congress for january, so we have a month to get what we want or until jan 1st?

Moonshine
12-19-2012, 6:33 PM
The soonest a ban could realistically be implemented is probably January 1, 2014 so this is really a question to ask a year from now. Even when SB-23 passed and there was an implementation date sales continued for a while. So if you purchased recently I wouldn't lose any sleep. Build any 80% AKs soon though!

1911Operator
12-19-2012, 6:39 PM
The soonest a ban could realistically be implemented is probably January 1, 2014 so this is really a question to ask a year from now. Even when SB-23 passed and there was an implementation date sales continued for a while. So if you purchased recently I wouldn't lose any sleep. Build any 80% AKs soon though!

ok, so if i bought some stuff in early jan, could it be confiscated if the ban did pass 2014?

ke6guj
12-19-2012, 6:45 PM
The soonest a ban could realistically be implemented is probably January 1, 2014 so this is really a question to ask a year from now. Even when SB-23 passed and there was an implementation date sales continued for a while. So if you purchased recently I wouldn't lose any sleep. Build any 80% AKs soon though!

doesn't work that way federally. laws usually go into effect the moment the President signs the bill.

the 1986 MG "ban" went into effect May 19, 1986
the 1994 AW ban went into effect September 13, 1994

ke6guj
12-19-2012, 6:47 PM
ok, so if i bought some stuff in early jan, could it be confiscated if the ban did pass 2014?

we don't have a crystal ball. we dont' know the words of a potential ban that hasn't even been introduced yet.

SilverTauron
12-19-2012, 6:49 PM
OPSEC.

Until Bidens panel releases their recommendations,we won't know a thing about how all this can turn out.The time frames on when legislation takes effect can vary.The other side is best advised to take their time,lest a hasty ban not hold up on appeal in court.

1911Operator
12-19-2012, 6:49 PM
doesn't work that way federally. laws usually go into effect the moment the President signs the bill.

the 1986 MG "ban" went into effect May 19, 1986
the 1994 AW ban went into effect September 13, 1994

If something where to happen, when do you think it would? Im just looking to buy some lowers as soon as Jan comes around the corner. you think its going to be too late by then??

SilverTauron
12-19-2012, 6:53 PM
If something where to happen, when do you think it would? Im just looking to buy some lowers as soon as Jan comes around the corner. you think its going to be too late by then??

I repeat , it is not prudent to discuss workarounds for gun control legislation which is still in the planning phase.

SKSer
12-19-2012, 6:55 PM
If something where to happen, when do you think it would? Im just looking to buy some lowers as soon as Jan comes around the corner. you think its going to be too late by then??

Nobody knows when, what, where brother, the government themselves don't even know yet. Im sure they have ideas on what they want to do, but it is impossible to know, and anyone that tells you different is full of BS.

If you want some lowers all you can do is buy them as soon as possible, expect price gouging though.

tiki
12-19-2012, 6:55 PM
We don't know what they are going to try to do, but is a confiscation even legally possible? Wouldn't they be on the hook for compensation? Even under eminent domain, they have to pay you what your land is worth.

ke6guj
12-19-2012, 6:57 PM
I repeat , it is not prudent to discuss workarounds for gun control legislation which is still in the planning phase.

I agree.

if you want something, spend your money and take your chances.

ke6guj
12-19-2012, 6:58 PM
We don't know what they are going to try to do, but is a confiscation even legally possible? Wouldn't they be on the hook for compensation? Even under eminent domain, they have to pay you what your land is worth.

but if you can't sell it to anybody, what is its value? scrap weight value?

1911Operator
12-19-2012, 6:58 PM
Nobody knows when, what, where brother, the government themselves don't even know yet. Im sure they have ideas on what they want to do, but it is impossible to know, and anyone that tells you different is full of BS.

If you want some lowers all you can do is buy them as soon as possible, expect price gouging though.

:facepalm: this sucks!! we get over one problem, prices drop and suddenly another huge issue. now price way up again!

Cobrafreak
12-19-2012, 7:13 PM
Look at it this way, you are going to get more hands-on experience with revolvers, pumps, black powder and lever actions soon.

tiki
12-19-2012, 7:13 PM
but if you can't sell it to anybody, what is its value? scrap weight value?

By that argument, they can make it illegal to own land next to a road and then take your land and pay you nothing for it, but I'm pretty sure that isn't how it works.

L84CABO
12-19-2012, 7:27 PM
the rifle isnt yours until the 10 day wait and DROS is over...so you get your money back - a restocking fee.

Crud. I'm really not concerned about the money. I was hoping that the payment in full was enough to secure the "ownership."

Trenchfoot
12-19-2012, 8:48 PM
Look at it this way, you are going to get more hands-on experience with revolvers, pumps, black powder and lever actions soon.

As long as it isn't one of these...
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/zoom_lg/170133_01_lg.jpg

I mean, nobody needs 8 rounds of .357 right?

degeezer
12-19-2012, 9:06 PM
I realize there are lots of unknowns here. But let's say I go into a gun store today and place an order for an AR15 and pay for it in full. What would happen if a ban were to get implemented before the gun was ready?

Whatever happens, you'll get wind of it more than ten days in advance. None of the legislature bodies are known for their efficiency of action.

dixieD
12-19-2012, 9:22 PM
ok, so if i bought some stuff in early jan, could it be confiscated if the ban did pass 2014?

I doubt there will be no-knocks, with flash banging, and killing of pets, but you never know. It happened before, and I really don't think people have changed all that much in the last 60 years.

Ric
12-19-2012, 9:23 PM
I picked up my Glock 19, and my colt ar15 today.
Happened to mention to the shop owner, that my next purchase will be a 1911.
He just smiled at me and pulled out an Ed Brown special forces......
Another 10 day wait....*sigh*

fdamods
12-19-2012, 9:26 PM
Really?

Moonshine
12-19-2012, 10:16 PM
I'm not even losing sleep over the Feds. They have to convince 18 GOP representatives to get a ban. Even in 1994 with democrats the best they could get was a 10 year ban and ARs and AKs weren't banned... They just had less features. Back then a bayonet lug was a big deal too for some odd reason.

What I AM more concerned about is an expansion of the state ban here... There's no way the Feds will ever be as strict as Cali. Fortunately California can't even pass a budget on time with enough democrat votes to ban guns so I would expect very SLOW movement and PLENTY of advance warning.

Dirty dirt
12-20-2012, 5:29 AM
Deleted

voiceofreason
12-20-2012, 5:51 AM
If SB249 is enforced AR 15's acquired in california during the last 12 years will be illegal to possess. No restitution.

They would run into serious problems with 4th amendment lawsuits.

Seizing the private property of citizens without compensation (there are 30 million black rifles in the US) would be a losing proposition for them.

More likely, they ban moving forward, or require registration.

Curley Red
12-20-2012, 7:05 AM
the 1986 MG "ban" went into effect May 19, 1986
the 1994 AW ban went into effect September 13, 1994

Two anti gun bills, one by a republican that is put up on a pedestal and worshiped, the other one by a democrat that the right use to think is the worst president until Obama got elected.

So why do so many people love Reagan?

ke6guj
12-20-2012, 7:10 AM
Two anti gun bills, one by a republican that is put up on a pedestal and worshiped, the other one by a democrat that the right use to think is the worst president until Obama got elected.

So why do so many people love Reagan?
the FOPA signed by Reagan was considered to be a net win for us. The antis inserted the MG ban as a poison pill to try to derail the bill. He asked if he should sign it and he was told that it was ok. The NRA filed suit to get the MG ban thrown out, but pre-Heller, got ruled against.

LMTluvr
12-20-2012, 7:11 AM
Two anti gun bills, one by a republican that is put up on a pedestal and worshiped, the other one by a democrat that the right use to think is the worst president until Obama got elected.

So why do so many people love Reagan?

Why do so many love to spin their own political fly into the web?
Gun ban politics. Not left right politics.
Some on the right have shown to be anti gun, some on the left have shown to be pro gun.
Screw party lines. We continue down the path of right revocation we've got bigger issues than red or blue.

-hanko
12-20-2012, 8:50 AM
If something where to happen, when do you think it would? Im just looking to buy some lowers as soon as Jan comes around the corner. you think its going to be too late by then??
I think it's too late now.

Surprised a lot of folks did not sense price increases prior to last month's election.:confused:

-hanko

Brandsayer
12-20-2012, 9:10 AM
There wouldn't be a ban until mid-late January at the earliest. Moderates will need to save face through exploration/committees/ so they can figure out what an "assault weapon" is and poll their constituents to see how they will react to the law in November of 2014/16/18 or in the case for Republicans how their vote will be seen in the primary.
If it is a majority republican district they will not be able to vote for the bill and win the next election (They are on the 2A side). If the district has a high ratio of dems to republicans, be worried if that politician thinks he can win the next primary without support from 2A republicans.

My hope is they do nothing on gun control wise. I wouldn't be surprised if new polling shows the majority of Americans are now in favor of gun control. And by majority I mean the 51% that voted for Obama and will now attempt to trample on our rights.

smogcity
12-20-2012, 9:20 AM
The ban will be retroactive. Everything you own has been deemed banned and your past ownership has been a crime. Please turn yourself into the brady detention center to serve your sentence.

:ban:

ibanezfoo
12-20-2012, 10:36 AM
I thought Federal laws were only related to interstate trade anyway... Anything you built yourself or was built in the same state was irrelevant to the bans and whatnot... ??

ke6guj
12-20-2012, 12:29 PM
I thought Federal laws were only related to interstate trade anyway... Anything you built yourself or was built in the same state was irrelevant to the bans and whatnot... ??

nope, anything that "affects" interstate commerce can be regulated by the feds.

grow your own pot in-state and it violates federal law, because by you not buying illegal pot from a dealer, you are depressing the interstate market.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich

myk
12-20-2012, 12:50 PM
Who knows what's gonna happen. Just buy what you want, get it out of jail ASAP and then rehearse your whole boating accident tirade when and if they come for it. Remember, long guns weren't scheduled to be registered 'till '14...

Brandsayer
12-20-2012, 1:05 PM
Anything you built yourself...was irrelevant to the bans and whatnot... ??

Good Question. Can anybody shed some light on this. During the 1994 10 year ban, was it legal for individuals to build their own private semi-automatic ar-15 lower receivers w/ out adding any of the banned features?

ke6guj
12-20-2012, 1:18 PM
Good Question. Can anybody shed some light on this. During the 1994 10 year ban, was it legal for individuals to build their own private semi-automatic ar-15 lower receivers w/ out adding any of the banned features?

yes, and you could even buy 100% lowers as well. you just couldn't build it up in a banned config. The terms "pre-ban" and "post-ban" referred to that.

Manolito
12-20-2012, 2:04 PM
Start with looking up executive order 6102. Overnight the value dropped 70%. Look at the administration that signed this executive order and what they wanted to do. Devalue the dollar and make it a federal reserve note so they could print as needed not tied to you must have gold orsilver to back the value.

I would think those that think executive order could not be used today should read a little. I am truly worried where this is going behind closed doors.

If I am missing the mark I am sure you will let me know.

Bill

Wherryj
12-20-2012, 5:11 PM
doesn't work that way federally. laws usually go into effect the moment the President signs the bill.

the 1986 MG "ban" went into effect May 19, 1986
the 1994 AW ban went into effect September 13, 1994

Although I suspect that this "gem" wouldn't go into effect immediately upon signing. I suspect that Mr. Gura might just have papers prepared for an injunction. That would at least stall things until a potential SCoTUS showdown.

Let's hope that judges like Scalia (who can still read) are still on the court.

jaymz
12-20-2012, 6:11 PM
It's business as usual until further notice. Buy what you want.

0nTarg3t
12-21-2012, 2:25 AM
i would think if there was another AW registration us in Cali would be screwed since there already banned here now. why have the majority of Americans turned into low information pussies, led around by there televisions,horrified by the mere sight of a gun?

myk
12-21-2012, 2:45 AM
^^^Cause it's easier to blame guns or other inanimate objects than to criticize and deal with the flaws in people, human beings...

Mister Demeanor
12-21-2012, 6:33 AM
:facepalm: this sucks!! we get over one problem, prices drop and suddenly another huge issue. now price way up again!Tell me about it! My family was just barely recovering from losing our home in 2009, and looking to pick up a couple of medium rifles, a WWII style carbine, and a Cal compliant AR15. Now, I can't even think about ammo for the few pistols and one hunting rifle we own. I say we because I take my son shooting on weekends. He is very concerned about all this, and I find myself lying, to assure him it will all work out.