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MetalDoc
12-19-2012, 6:32 PM
Didn't want to hijack the other silver thread, but as I am soon to be debt free I am looking at more ways of saving and it would seem that a small amount of precious metals wouldn't be a terrible idea.

My question is what form would be best? Assuming you were to resell at a later date (non-SHTF) then all forms should be generally equal (aside from purity). Is this correct?

In a SHTF situation, I would imagine coinage is probably the easiest way to barter?

Thoughts?

scootergmc
12-19-2012, 6:40 PM
PMs are usually worthless in SHTF.

johnny1290
12-19-2012, 6:41 PM
I buy silver dimes. cheapish verifiable not faked easily convertible well known

fat chance I'd take a new prod silver coin or bullion. they're faked by the million

PassTheAmmo
12-19-2012, 6:45 PM
My question is what form would be best? Assuming you were to resell at a later date (non-SHTF) then all forms should be generally equal (aside from purity). Is this correct?

Thoughts?

Personally I like 1 oz silver round (.999 purity) trade units or liberdads. They are in a size and value that I can buy regularly and trade in small denominations. One of those rounds is a little north of 30 bucks, whereas an equivalent in gold is north of 1500. I buy a lot more 30 items than 1500 items so it is the right size for me.

It's really about what you have room to store and how you'll use it that should help drive your decision.

I'm on my phone (doubletap-a-talk) and I didn't look at your profile before posting so I don't know where you are. If you're in the inland empire area I can point you at the shop I like.

Hope it helps. If not, I'll issue a full refund post haste. :)

MetalDoc
12-19-2012, 6:48 PM
PMs are usually worthless in SHTF.

Valid point.

Although with a good supply of mercury around, one could make amalgam fillings... :oji:

PassTheAmmo
12-19-2012, 6:52 PM
I buy silver dimes.

I like the 90% coins for value but they can be harder to float because the guy you're trading it to has to understand the melt value and their first inclination is that a dime is worth 10 cents. It's hard to use it to sweeten a deal if you have to explain how metals work to the guy first.

scootergmc
12-19-2012, 6:53 PM
Valid point.

Although with a good supply of mercury around, one could make amalgam fillings... :oji:

Touche! However SHTF would dictate the use of a readily available pair of pliers. :pinch:

NoHeavyHitter
12-19-2012, 7:01 PM
I used to buy 4 or 5 1oz silver "bullion rounds" a week back when they were ~$4 - $6 a pop. I really don't think the margin is sufficient to sink a bunch of money into silver or gold at present.

If you want to invest in metals, I suggest looking for bargain on ammunition and components as I've seen a lot of increases in the prices of lead, brass, and copper. If you don't have a semi-auto rifle chambered in 7.62x54R - then you might want to consider such a purchase because this is about the only caliber left where you can buy ammunition for far less that it can be made.

32blownhemi
02-14-2013, 12:07 PM
PMs are usually worthless in SHTF.

Of course in a SHTF situation the main things would be food, water, guns, ammo, etc. But wouldn't PM's be a good idea in case you wanted to leave the US? Like if you wanted to flee to Canada? I would think PM's would spike in value & you could initially get by in Canada on your stash?

ElvenSoul
02-14-2013, 4:35 PM
Lead & copper are precious metals have you seen ammo prices :)

Coctailer
02-14-2013, 4:48 PM
PMs will be good for after SHTF during the rebuild.

Eventually it always goes back to barter in every culture, and Federal Reserve Notes won't be useful.

Pre 64 coins, and 1oz rounds are good to have.

winnre
02-14-2013, 4:50 PM
One ounce rounds. call your local coin shop and get their buy price for 500 ounces of rounds, and then for a 500 oz bar, and see the difference.

ElvenSoul
02-14-2013, 5:13 PM
Just FYI some Calguners are organizing a Gold Mining Weekend or something. Can't remember where I saw the thread.

five.five-six
02-14-2013, 5:14 PM
IBOHOD

mudbud
02-14-2013, 6:34 PM
On lighter note your probally are better off investing in the NEW precious metals LEAD, COPPER AND BRASS.

THE prices have trippled since december

IVth Horseman
02-14-2013, 6:49 PM
I prefer 90% "junk" coins, easily recognizable, small denominations, and seldom counterfeited. Second favorite would be the US silver eagle. And 1/10th oz gold coins would be a good choice as well.

Whatever you do I'd recommend diversification, easily recognized, and clearly marked (stamped) items. Last but not least, get yourself a small quality digital scale for detecting counterfeits and weighing silver for your SHTF scenario.

geeknow
02-14-2013, 6:57 PM
I like generic silver rounds and 10oz silver bars. The bars store easier, but I like to keep smaller denominations too.

That is purely for storing value.

I also collect numismatic silver, primarily lady liberty. I believe those to be the most beautiful coin minted.

kaligaran
02-14-2013, 8:00 PM
I just started paying attention to my coins I get daily pretty recently.

I looked it up and found this, hope it helps for any coin noobs like me.

If anyone knows more or finds this inaccurate please post:

(all dates inclusive)
Quarters 1932-1964 - 90% silver, 10% copper
Dimes 1837-1964 - 90% silver, 10% copper
Nickels 1922-1981 - 99% nickel
Nickels 1982-2012 - 75% copper, 25% nickel
Pennies 1982 and older - 95% copper

winnre
02-15-2013, 9:26 AM
Just FYI some Calguners are organizing a Gold Mining Weekend or something. Can't remember where I saw the thread.

I know a guy who panned for gold, he'd fine dust, but he panned every weekend for about a year and some change, then he had the gold made into an engagement ring for his fiance. I can't top that!

Vacaville
02-15-2013, 9:29 AM
PMs are usually worthless in SHTF.

Correct. PMs are useful when currency becomes devalued (inflation or hyperinflation).

I mostly have silver, since you can't split up a $2000 gold coin easily in a transaction.

For SHTF you want food, medical supplies, ammo, clean water, etc.

speedrrracer
02-15-2013, 1:41 PM
Didn't want to hijack the other silver thread, but as I am soon to be debt free I am looking at more ways of saving and it would seem that a small amount of precious metals wouldn't be a terrible idea.

My question is what form would be best? Assuming you were to resell at a later date (non-SHTF) then all forms should be generally equal (aside from purity). Is this correct?

In a SHTF situation, I would imagine coinage is probably the easiest way to barter?

Thoughts?


If you're thinking about saving for your future, a balanced portfolio will generally include a position in precious metals. There are some basics, but how much / which flavor is a question for your financial advisor, not a gun forum!

In terms of a financial collapse / massive SHTF / WROL, then, as was said, you're better off making sure you're covered in the water / food / ammo / security / first aid / sanitation / etc depts.

During the worst of a theoretical WROL event, nobody is going to believe you when you say your shiny bar is real gold or silver. Like every business involving pms today, they're going to want to weigh it and at least conduct some physical / chemical / etc test on your metal to prove it's legitimacy and perhaps it's purity. Old school coins will probably be believable to the broadest likely audience, but they still won't have universal applicability, and as you know, they're noisy, heavy and depending on how they're valued, you might need a lot of them.

After WROL / financial collapse / etc subsides, and civilization returns, pms will be very useful, because there'll probably be no accepted paper money yet, but gems / pms will probably have good value.

So, it kinda depends on what you're looking to do, and for which scenarios you want to prep. Eventually, you'll hopefully be prepped for pretty much everything, so you'll eventually want to have some position in all the above areas, but the important thing is to do it wisely.

problemchild
02-15-2013, 3:27 PM
PMs are usually worthless in SHTF.

Right, unless you want to eat, buy bullets and save your life.

problemchild
02-15-2013, 3:31 PM
On lighter note your probally are better off investing in the NEW precious metals LEAD, COPPER AND BRASS.

THE prices have trippled since december
.:eek:

scootergmc
02-15-2013, 11:03 PM
Right, unless you want to eat, buy bullets and save your life.

I'm sure you have an example where PMs provided value in a true SHTF situation. I have yet to see one. PMs have value with economic structure.

32blownhemi
02-16-2013, 2:38 PM
Of course in a SHTF situation the main things would be food, water, guns, ammo, etc. But wouldn't PM's be a good idea in case you wanted to leave the US? Like if you wanted to flee to Canada? I would think PM's would spike in value & you could initially get by in Canada on your stash?

Any feed back on this??? Thanks! Bill ; )

problemchild
02-16-2013, 8:06 PM
I'm sure you have an example where PMs provided value in a true SHTF situation. I have yet to see one. PMs have value with economic structure.

Read history........... Im not going to spoon feed anyone anything.

Geared Hub
02-16-2013, 10:25 PM
I started out with rolls of Silver Eagles and Maples in tubes. Then added fractional gold [1/10 1/20 and 1/4] of either eagles or maples, whatever has the best deal on the price premium over spot at the time.

I found that starting out with coins first since they are easier to compare to existing stock and are a known quantity for buyers and sellers.

After that moving onto well known generic bars and rounds to build up a stack after the coins.

Counterfeits aren't a big problem unless you are buying from ebay where you can't check it out in hand before buying. Fake silver/gold will have different density than the real thing.

A weigh scale, calipers and a known good sample of the coin/bar you are buying will protect you from 99% of counterfeits. Usually fakes will mess around with the dimensions of the coin [too thick, too wide] to get the weight to match the real thing. Details and fonts/text are usually screwed up on fakes, and the obverse/reverse usually have messed up alignments on fake coins.

Buy from known resellers and dealers and you dodge that issue.

scootergmc
02-17-2013, 10:33 AM
Read history........... Im not going to spoon feed anyone anything.

I've probably read more history than most on this forum. So you made the claim, let's hear your example (edit: and I'll do my own reading to save you from typing :rolleyes:).

Stormfeather
02-17-2013, 6:34 PM
I've probably read more history than most on this forum. So you made the claim, let's hear your example (edit: and I'll do my own reading to save you from typing :rolleyes:).

i lol'ed


Anyways OP, just get yourself some pre64 silver and call it good. Maybe invest in small amounts of gold. Large amounts would be too hard to divide if SHTF and you was using it for barter. Just my opinion.

Oliver_Charles
02-17-2013, 9:33 PM
***

problemchild
02-18-2013, 8:53 PM
I've probably read more history than most on this forum. So you made the claim, let's hear your example (edit: and I'll do my own reading to save you from typing :rolleyes:).

If you actually could read, which I doubt, then you would know what the heck I was talking about, but you dont, because you cant. Just another drive-by thread flamer. Exactly why I left and stopped posting. Do you work for the TSA by chance?

scootergmc
02-18-2013, 9:19 PM
If you actually could read, which I doubt, then you would know what the heck I was talking about, but you dont, because you cant. Just another drive-by thread flamer. Exactly why I left and stopped posting. Do you work for the TSA by chance?

I ask for a simple example and this is what you give me :facepalm:? Pity. Another fine example of taking your ball and going home. You could just go away again if you can't handle it.

I stand by my argument. In a true SHTF situation, PMs are worthless without economic structure to lend value to the PMs.

bigmike82
02-18-2013, 10:24 PM
For a SHTF situation, you'd really want stuff in smaller denominations than 1Oz. If I have stuff you need, and all you have are 1 Oz rounds...do you really think I'm going to give you change? Hah.

I would also think that lead and black powder would be easy to trade.

For long term value...really, anything that you can for a good price is the way to go. Morgans, Liberties, Eagles...whatever.

OHOD
02-19-2013, 6:59 AM
PMs are usually worthless in SHTF.

Consider this, in the absence of Fiat Currency, something must take the place of a barter item not in possession...hence, the purpose of PM's in TEOTWAWKI or SHTF.

Example...

Of course, the S has Hit the Fan.
You have in your possession an abundance of silver. :thumbsup:
Your well and pump has blown a seal. (Yes, you have a generator to run the pump).
You do not have a seal.

On the other side of the mountain, there is an old rancher with the seal you need.
So, you try to barter with him for said seal.
He has all the food, bullets, guns, supplies and etc... that he needs. There is nothing you have that he needs.
Of course you can't kill the guy for the seal, as some buttheads would say. You are a civilized guy.

In the absence of Fiat, you can use the PM's to buy the seal from him. He will then use the PM's to get something he needs from someone else.

There you go.
A legitimate reason for PM's in SHTF.

JackRackham
02-19-2013, 8:03 AM
Sam Sheridan wrote a good book called, "The Disaster Diaries: How I learned to stop worrying and love the apocalypse." He argues that saving precious metals is worthless. "You can't eat or drink silver." You are better off preparing for a barter system. Water, Food, Medicine, batteries will be the currency of SHTF.
That being said, there are a million reasons why you shouldn't stockpile precious metals. But you probably SHOULD save them for all the reasons we can't think of.

scootergmc
02-19-2013, 9:52 AM
Consider this, in the absence of Fiat Currency, something must take the place of a barter item not in possession...hence, the purpose of PM's in TEOTWAWKI or SHTF.

Example...

Of course, the S has Hit the Fan.
You have in your possession an abundance of silver. :thumbsup:
Your well and pump has blown a seal. (Yes, you have a generator to run the pump).
You do not have a seal.

On the other side of the mountain, there is an old rancher with the seal you need.
So, you try to barter with him for said seal.
He has all the food, bullets, guns, supplies and etc... that he needs. There is nothing you have that he needs.
Of course you can't kill the guy for the seal, as some buttheads would say. You are a civilized guy.

In the absence of Fiat, you can use the PM's to buy the seal from him. He will then use the PM's to get something he needs from someone else.

There you go.
A legitimate reason for PM's in SHTF.

I understand bartering. However, you've assigned value to the PM. How does the silver get its value? Think Macro. There's economic structure in your scenario somewhere.

scootergmc
02-19-2013, 9:57 AM
That being said, there are a million reasons why you shouldn't stockpile precious metals. But you probably SHOULD save them for all the reasons we can't think of.

This could be sound advice.

wpage
02-19-2013, 12:01 PM
Silver dollars...

Decoligny
02-19-2013, 12:08 PM
I'm sure you have an example where PMs provided value in a true SHTF situation. I have yet to see one. PMs have value with economic structure.

A SHTF situation is not necessarily a world wide event. Even a TEOTWAWKI situation is not necessarily a destruction of all economic structure.

I would consider the Holocaust as a true SHTF situation for the Jews.

PMs allowed many of them to get out of Nazi controlled territory before it was too late.

scootergmc
02-19-2013, 2:24 PM
A SHTF situation is not necessarily a world wide event. Even a TEOTWAWKI situation is not necessarily a destruction of all economic structure.

I would consider the Holocaust as a true SHTF situation for the Jews.

PMs allowed many of them to get out of Nazi controlled territory before it was too late.

I agree, it doesn't have to be a worldwide event. However, an economy still existed for the Jews. They were able to use PMs as they had value, much like the cash or other items transacted by the majority of Jews who fled the Nazis.

I'm not saying PMs don't have value following a SHTF situation. But the bug-in fortified bunker food and bullet hoarding scenarios so often presented by the preppers and the requirement of using PMs as bartering instruments is a farce. You simply can't do it without economic structure.

problemchild
02-19-2013, 5:30 PM
I agree, it doesn't have to be a worldwide event. However, an economy still existed for the Jews. They were able to use PMs as they had value, much like the cash or other items transacted by the majority of Jews who fled the Nazis.

I'm not saying PMs don't have value following a SHTF situation. But the bug-in fortified bunker food and bullet hoarding scenarios so often presented by the preppers and the requirement of using PMs as bartering instruments is a farce. You simply can't do it without economic structure.

Bwahahaha

The great knowledgeable reader of all books missed that one. Hahaha

Many more like it....no spoon feeding......back-peddle quickly

Velvetmonkey
02-20-2013, 2:22 AM
How about collecting silver and/or gold numismatic coins? If the S doesn't hit the fan, you will have a collection that retains value/appreciates regardless of the price of PMs. If it does hit the fan, the coins have known amounts of gold or silver.

I know three families that left Vietnam after the North took over. They all had gold that must of been useful to re-establish their life in the US. My friend described his father in-law as jingling as he got off the plane from a belt lined with gold as he fled Iran after the fall of the Shaw.

scootergmc
02-20-2013, 9:10 AM
Bwahahaha

The great knowledgeable reader of all books missed that one. Hahaha

Many more like it....no spoon feeding......back-peddle quickly


:facepalm:

Really? How do you figure? Some Jews used PMs, most didn't. And in fact, it made more Jews targets than anything else. Were PMs the only mechanism required for survival? Because in the example given, they clearly were not. Even today, PMs are used to get out of *bad* situations.

The fact remains, if you're prepping for SHTF, your total economic collapse scenario absolutely negates the requirements of PMs as they become worthless. Any other SHTF situation with economic structure and there are much better mechanisms for survival/barter. Even many of the not so loony SHTF blogs say the same.

So tell me why PMs are needed for SHTF. Give me just one example where survival was only possible with PMs. Just one. I beg you. Please spoon feed me PC. I look forward to your first intelligent response.

Otherwise, I stand by my statement that PMs are worthless in SHTF.

scootergmc
02-20-2013, 9:30 AM
How about collecting silver and/or gold numismatic coins? If the S doesn't hit the fan, you will have a collection that retains value/appreciates regardless of the price of PMs. If it does hit the fan, the coins have known amounts of gold or silver.

I know three families that left Vietnam after the North took over. They all had gold that must of been useful to re-establish their life in the US. My friend described his father in-law as jingling as he got off the plane from a belt lined with gold as he fled Iran after the fall of the Shaw.

In your example, it was used as currency replacement and was a wise choice. However, strength in value is directly related to the strength of the currency upon which it is based. Talk to those who stocked up on gold in 1980 and hung on only to watch it plummet and stabilize the following 15 years. Don't be fooled by today's dollar and gold prices. I can't predict what the economy will do, but history shows that against the dollar now would be a good time to get out, if you made that investment prior 2008-09. It does not always retain value/appreciate regardless.

problemchild
02-20-2013, 9:44 AM
How about collecting silver and/or gold numismatic coins? If the S doesn't hit the fan, you will have a collection that retains value/appreciates regardless of the price of PMs. If it does hit the fan, the coins have known amounts of gold or silver.

I know three families that left Vietnam after the North took over. They all had gold that must of been useful to re-establish their life in the US. My friend described his father in-law as jingling as he got off the plane from a belt lined with gold as he fled Iran after the fall of the Shaw.

WOW.... Yet another story of shtf and PM's having value. Amazing! The naysayers are rolling in their wrong opinions.

scootergmc
02-20-2013, 11:22 AM
WOW.... Yet another story of shtf and PM's having value. Amazing! The naysayers are rolling in their wrong opinions.

:rolleyes:

It has the same value of the cash that would've otherwise been fine in his situation. He just happened to have it in the form of PMs.

Do you care to actually address my opinion, or should I just assume you're incapable of supporting yours? By reviewing your posts (at least in this thread), I should just choose the latter. I'm willing to listen your side. I want to know why you're keeping PMs for SHTF, and why you espouse it at a necessity. Why would you ever stock up on PMs to barter for "food, bullets, save your life" as you presented, when there are much better methods to accomplish the same?

Should you choose to intellectually engage, I welcome it. If you're no more capable than narcissistic quips, well then I've apparently been stymied, and you're no more the genius than a group of us have grown to know and love.

DTOM CA!
02-20-2013, 11:49 AM
If there is a true SHTF there will be people (warlords, militia, religious factions or a new govt.) that have a surplus of supplies and looking for other ways to store wealth. PM's seem to fit perfect. Water and supplies are heavy and take up a lot of room. They go bad after a while. Fiat dollars may only be good for toilet paper. Along with other supplies IMO PM's have a place during STHF.

Baconator
02-20-2013, 11:49 AM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/13/article-2202763-14FAA577000005DC-313_634x415.jpg

Ripon83
02-20-2013, 12:27 PM
As silver fell under $28 today and I sold my SUV I can't help but think about picking up another 25 coin roll (Canadian $5 Maple Leafs).

scootergmc
02-20-2013, 12:49 PM
If there is a true SHTF there will be people (warlords, militia, religious factions or a new govt.) that have a surplus of supplies and looking for other ways to store wealth. PM's seem to fit perfect. Water and supplies are heavy and take up a lot of room. They go bad after a while. Fiat dollars may only be good for toilet paper. Along with other supplies IMO PM's have a place during STHF.

If the warlord/militia/faction is storing PMs there has to be an economic structure to support the PMs, otherwise they have no value. In your scenario, you've made it though SHTF and you're living in some sort of market structure.

I think you make a valid argument for storing PMs during (not for) SHTF. A restructuring economy following [insert SHTF situation here] would lend value.

scootergmc
02-20-2013, 12:56 PM
As silver fell under $28 today and I sold my SUV I can't help but think about picking up another 25 coin roll (Canadian $5 Maple Leafs).

Ripon- are you saving PMs as a method of hedging against a weakening dollar?

Onetyme
02-20-2013, 4:37 PM
Ripon- are you saving PMs as a method of hedging against a weakening dollar?

That is the only reason I keep PM's. They may also be usefull in the early days of a collapse but if things get really bad, other supplies will weigh more heavily than PM's. IMO

yelohamr
02-20-2013, 4:59 PM
I keep a few rolls of $1 coins,25 to a roll. In an emergency, trying to get the proper value of gold or silver coins will be a good trick.

If you try to buy something with silver or gold, have a gun in your hand, if you don't know who you are dealing with.

A dollar is a dollar and most people will know that.

repomanNWP
02-20-2013, 5:54 PM
I bought 50 silver eagles today on the down swing in silver prices. I personally like silver anywhere south of $29/oz.... and will pick up more if it keeps dropping. At my local shop, they charge $3 over spot for eagles, and then buy it back for $1 over spot. Bars and junk silver have a much lower premium, but I strongly prefer eagles and gladly pay the premium.

yelohamr
02-20-2013, 8:37 PM
In the late 70's I was paid in Krugerrand's. I still have most of them, so I don't buy silver or gold.

Bakersfield_Grizzly
02-20-2013, 11:48 PM
A SHTF situation is not necessarily a world wide event. Even a TEOTWAWKI situation is not necessarily a destruction of all economic structure.

I would consider the Holocaust as a true SHTF situation for the Jews.

PMs allowed many of them to get out of Nazi controlled territory before it was too late.

Hats off to you. That is an excellent example. Other examples are Argentina during the years of hyperinflation, the dirty thirty's here in America where only those who had collateral thrived.

If you think those are not realistic, think back to the crop failures of last year both here and Russia. (Russia did not export any grains last year) Food supplies have been drastically reduced in the last year. Stock up whilst you can.

SMOKEYMOUNTAIN
02-21-2013, 10:44 AM
90% is the best form of silver for a SHTF situation. My 90% is mainly comprised of dimes and 1/2 dollars. I like to balance my stack around the silver to gold ratio, right now close to 55:1. For gold, I stay away from the fractionals due to the higher premiums and mainly stack ounces. After a while, your silver stack becomes weighty and cumbersome. If you ever had to make a quick getaway or leave the country, I'd much rather flee with 62.5 ounces of gold rather than 3,333 ounces of silver (both roughly equivalent to 100k). I'd rather have an anonymous, nondescript small bag of gold that would be easy to hide, stash, bury, or hand off then have to cart around a wheelbarrow full of silver which would instantly turn you into a prime target and greatly hinder mobility.

In a barter economy, silver and copper coins can be used for small daily transactions while gold can be used for larger purchases like real estate, heavy machinery, horses, etc.

Outside of the SHTF scenario, I also stack PMs for the following reasons:

(1) Dollar inflation hedge (an ounce of silver will always be an ounce of silver and is a historically and globally recognized store of monetary wealth).
(2) One slice of the pie in my investment portfolio with possible explosive returns.
(3) As a physical savings account that is harder to spend, because it's harder to liquidate.
(4) I get to swim and roll around in it like I'm Uncle Scrooge.
(5) I get to play pirate.
(6) It's sure pretty to look at and fondle. :D

kaligaran
02-21-2013, 1:14 PM
So I've seen a lot of silver clad coins and bars. Which are marked as if they are the real deal.

Do any of you PM experts know if there's an easy way to tell if it's clad or not by looking at a coin? Or is the only way to cut into it (I assume even then it could be hard to tell)?

SMOKEYMOUNTAIN
02-21-2013, 1:25 PM
So I've seen a lot of silver clad coins and bars. Which are marked as if they are the real deal.

Do any of you PM experts know if there's an easy way to tell if it's clad or not by looking at a coin? Or is the only way to cut into it (I assume even then it could be hard to tell)?

Magnet test. Caliper thickness/diameter test. Acid test. Weight test.

Without the aforementioned tools, you can do the "cling" sound test. Pure or 90% silver has a distinct and pleasant high pitched cling when dropped on a hard surface. Clad coins made a dull thud. In addition, on many silver clad copper coins, you can usually see trace copper colors when looking directly into the sides of the coin (the thickness) where the reeding is located.

kaligaran
02-21-2013, 1:44 PM
Magnet test. Caliper thickness/diameter test. Acid test. Weight test.

Without the aforementioned tools, you can do the "cling" sound test. Pure or 90% silver has a distinct and pleasant high pitched cling when dropped on a hard surface. Clad coins made a dull thud. In addition, on many silver clad copper coins, you can usually see trace copper colors when looking directly into the sides of the coin (the thickness) where the reeding is located.

Thanks! The magnet test and cling test I'll go look up now! :)

BruceR
02-21-2013, 4:14 PM
So I've seen a lot of silver clad coins and bars. Which are marked as if they are the real deal.

Do any of you PM experts know if there's an easy way to tell if it's clad or not by looking at a coin? Or is the only way to cut into it (I assume even then it could be hard to tell)?

I would think it worthwhile to take bolt cutters to a coin for a definitive look-see. For just a small loss in value (coin value minus salvage value), you would know what's in the coin. Relatively cheap insurance.

And, yes, I'm talking about just cutting one sample coin, not the whole bunch.

winnre
02-21-2013, 4:16 PM
The sides of coins have reeded edges so you can tell if the coin was drilled into and emptied of the gold or silver from the inside.

IVth Horseman
02-21-2013, 5:50 PM
Good lord! Don't cut or drill anything! Buy a digital scale (a decent quality one) and weigh/measure the damn thing, it's very hard to match silvers weight with the same dimensions.

Sunday
02-21-2013, 6:54 PM
What scares me about buying PM now is that the price is so high. The prices may skyrocket but then maybe not. They were $855? in the early 1980's and dropped quickly to $290 ish almost overnight. People said the stock market would never fall or the house prices would nover stop going up. You pay your money and take your chances. PM is manipulated as is any other commodity.

kaligaran
02-21-2013, 7:57 PM
Good lord! Don't cut or drill anything! Buy a digital scale (a decent quality one) and weigh/measure the damn thing, it's very hard to match silvers weight with the same dimensions.

I imagine it wouldn't be hard to make a near 1oz copper bar that is silver clad.

It doesn't seem weight would be a good indicator. Am I wrong on this?

SVRider
02-21-2013, 8:32 PM
Silver normally follows gold, but with larger swings both up and down. Many agree silver prices are heavily manipulated by the central banks.

At least for the near term, anyone see a trend worthy of storing PM's?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3EkDrzL-MpI/TjXsDOQ5kAI/AAAAAAAARaY/7fozpb6Okmc/s1600/debtgold.png

....and inflation is reported at a measly 1.6%. That number should be clearly obvious to anyone that buys food or gas.

This thread discusses SHTF and PM's, however legitimate thought should be placed into storing part of your wealth in PM's based on the current direction of the local and global economies.

Just my $0.02....

SVRider
02-21-2013, 8:36 PM
I imagine it wouldn't be hard to make a near 1oz copper bar that is silver clad.

It doesn't seem weight would be a good indicator. Am I wrong on this?

Copper is listed at 8,940kg/m3

Silver at 10,490kg/m3

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/metal-alloys-densities-d_50.html

Copper is about 15% less dense than silver. As others have mentioned, a pair of calipers and a decent scale are your friends. It should not be too hard to determine when something is not right.

11HE9
02-21-2013, 9:09 PM
Most of my PMs are in the form of some type of firearm. I also have lead, brass, and some silver to round things out.;)

SMOKEYMOUNTAIN
02-21-2013, 9:24 PM
Most of my PMs are in the form of some type of firearm. I also have lead, brass, and some silver to round things out.;)

These are base metals, not precious metals. But still precious, base metals. :D

kaligaran
02-21-2013, 9:46 PM
Copper is listed at 8,940kg/m3

Silver at 10,490kg/m3

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/metal-alloys-densities-d_50.html

Copper is about 15% less dense than silver. As others have mentioned, a pair of calipers and a decent scale are your friends. It should not be too hard to determine when something is not right.

I think I'll just stick to the known coins. Seems easier from a PM noob's standpoint.

SVRider
02-21-2013, 10:14 PM
I think I'll just stick to the known coins. Seems easier from a PM noob's standpoint.

Definitely easier, but don't be too discouraged. It's not as hard as it may sound. Just do some reading before you leap. You can get what you need for under $50, and a couple of hours of your time to research.

Aside from that, just buy from large, well known trustworthy companies and you'll be fine.

problemchild
02-22-2013, 4:02 PM
Definitely easier, but don't be too discouraged. It's not as hard as it may sound. Just do some reading before you leap. You can get what you need for under $50, and a couple of hours of your time to research.

Aside from that, just buy from large, well known trustworthy companies and you'll be fine.

Or there is a way to get silver 1/2's for free but its time consuming.

SVRider
02-24-2013, 9:54 AM
Or there is a way to get silver 1/2's for free but its time consuming.

Free....but you have to find a good source...

Geared Hub
02-24-2013, 8:06 PM
I think I'll just stick to the known coins. Seems easier from a PM noob's standpoint.

Thats what I tell lots of folks, stick to known coins at first until you get a feel for looking at generics and recognizing differences.

An easy way is to pick up something like the Fisch:

http://www.thefisch.com/

It'll catch the majority of counterfeits and the test is very simple. Metals have different density and fakes are always off on weight or dimensions.

If you are dealing in large values of precious metals an ultrasound detector may work well. I've seen demos of a GE Phaser XS scanning gold bars that can detect fakes and tungsten in seconds.

SMOKEYMOUNTAIN
02-25-2013, 1:12 PM
A risk free way for a novice PM stacker to get into stacking is to coin roll search for 90% silver aka junk silver aka constitutional silver.

Go to the bank and change a couple hundred dollars or more for a mix of halves, quarters, dimes, nickels, and pennies. Volume is key.

Silver Play:

Keep all the pre-1965 (1964 is silver) halves, quarters, and dimes. Exception: 1965-1970 Kennedy halves are 40% silver.

Copper Play:

Keep the pre-1982 pennies (some 1982 pennies are copper but you have to weigh them so I just toss them out). Keep ALL nickels (I like to buy the $100 nickel bricks from the bank for easy stacking). Exception: 1942-1945 nickels are 40% silver (aka 'war nickels').

Warning: Pre-1965 silver is VERY hard to come by via coin roll searching. Pre-1982 pennies and obviously nickels are still in circulation but copper pennies are getting snatched out of circulation very quickly.

Your BEST bet is to go through an old hoard of change. Say maybe your aunt or grandma has a 5 gallon bucket full of old change that she has been collecting for 20-30 years. You are much more likely to find 90% silver in those types of scenarios. Let me give you a recent example. My mom had about $600 dollars worth of quarters from about 10 years ago that needed to be sorted, rolled, and cashed in. Of course, and being the good son that I am, I volunteered to sort, roll, and cash them in contingent on me keeping any 90% found. Of course, she agreed. :D Out of all that, I found only 2 silver quarters (both 1964). But its a good way to get your feet wet risk free and to familiarize yourself with PMs.

It is a very addicting hobby and one where I feel like I'm not actually wasting my hard earned money. :)

ogarcia_02
02-26-2013, 5:57 PM
What is a good price if you are buying 90% coins. As close as to 90% of spot price?

repomanNWP
02-26-2013, 6:11 PM
my local coin shop charges something like $0.50 per ounce for junk silver... maybe a bit less, I don't recall exactly but it is definitely one of the most efficient ways to buy silver. My advice would be to find two or three local coin shops in your area, check yelp or whatever just in case of horror stories, then call them up or go in and ask what they charge to buy junk silver, and what they pay to sell it back to them.

binthere55
03-05-2013, 2:02 AM
Cash is King....period. You got plenty of cash, all good brother. Why PM's in a bad situation?.....people will want cash not metal they know nothing about?
PM's seem to be a good way to realize some growth in investment, but for trading when the **** goes down, you need cash....

Horta
03-06-2013, 11:47 PM
Precious metals would be most useful in the case of hyperinflation, such as what would occur with a collapsed US economy.

In a barter type environment resulting from a none economic disaster, not so much. You’d be better off with food, bullets and booze.

DTOM CA!
03-07-2013, 8:22 AM
Cash is King....period. You got plenty of cash, all good brother. Why PM's in a bad situation?.....people will want cash not metal they know nothing about?
PM's seem to be a good way to realize some growth in investment, but for trading when the **** goes down, you need cash....

As long as the dollar has value you might be right. I am sure they said that in Zimbabwe at one time as well. I bought a 10 trillion dollar bill (Zimbabwe) to show my kids what hyperinflation looks like. I think it cost 3-4 dollars.

CHIEFone
03-07-2013, 8:31 AM
I like the 90% coins for value but they can be harder to float because the guy you're trading it to has to understand the melt value and their first inclination is that a dime is worth 10 cents. It's hard to use it to sweeten a deal if you have to explain how metals work to the guy first.

this here is what makes buying silver and trading\bartering hard, because you would only be able to deal with people who are aware of metal content vs the printed "face value". how many americans are aware? older ones, maybe... younger ones not even, most likely

cpatbay
03-07-2013, 9:22 AM
this here is what makes buying silver and trading\bartering hard, because you would only be able to deal with people who are aware of metal content vs the printed "face value". how many americans are aware? older ones, maybe... younger ones not even, most likely

The young ones who are not even able to barter well with precious metal are not likely to have the needed skills to survive in a shtf environment. They would still be looking to their "government" to provide for them!

cpatbay
03-07-2013, 9:26 AM
Cash is King....period. You got plenty of cash, all good brother. Why PM's in a bad situation?.....people will want cash not metal they know nothing about?
PM's seem to be a good way to realize some growth in investment, but for trading when the **** goes down, you need cash....

Well .... Asked my great grand father about that! During the Japanese occupation, he made a fortune selling booze. He kept all his wealth in Japanese currency. Guess what happened to his fortune when Japan surrendered? You know the rest of the story. Of course, precious metal is not foolproof, too. But it would at least be "precious" in most situations.