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bubbapug1
12-19-2012, 5:14 PM
Lets do something!!

AyatollahGondola
12-19-2012, 5:20 PM
If you want to march on the state capitol, you can get a permit through the CHP office inside the capitol. If you're serious, I can place all the info in a pm or even here. A permit will allow you use of certain areas as you designate on the capitol grounds, but not inside the capitol itself. You can go inside the capitol and visit offices, but not hold organized protests in there at the same time.

You won't be able to march with unlocked, unloaded or any rifle at all though, because by the time you obtain the permit, the new long gun ban will be law

Guys, posting on Calguns or sending $100.00 to Brandon isn't going to work this time.Uh-oh...

wildhawker
12-19-2012, 5:32 PM
Please don't march unless you actually want to make them pass much broader gun control bills easier.

I'm not suggesting that's always a bad thing.

-Brandon

javalos
12-19-2012, 5:34 PM
Marching is not a bad idea, everyone else does it too, why not us, its our right as well to voice our opinion, doubt that the news media will give us the time of day. Its obvious that Yee's legislation is harassment, yearly registration in order to keep firearms ownership? If that isn't harassment, what is?

We need to voice our displeasure that it is morally wrong that our rights and existing laws hinge not on our behavior, but on the behavior of a criminal few. So essentially what we can have or not have is based on them, wrong, plain wrong. Yee needs to know that.

navycorpsman
12-19-2012, 5:34 PM
Tell me where and when?

SMR510
12-19-2012, 5:37 PM
March with our rifles? Seriously? If you really think that is a good idea then we have a serious problem. The general population is afraid of our EBRs because everything they see on TV, on the internet, and in the news paper has told them they are dangerous. Why would we want to go up there and scare everyone?

If we get the general population on our side (or at least to understand that we and our guns are not the problem) then we are far better off in the long term.

whlgun
12-19-2012, 5:39 PM
Unfortunately the news would spin this into a bunch of crazy gun owners.

That or they would show a guy with a beard and some camoflauge and say look they must all be big dumb rednecks.

I just don't think its a great idea to have our rifles with us. We need to look respectable and professional.

With that said I may be a redneck but I support my right to keep and bear arms and I am in.

Paladin
12-19-2012, 5:44 PM
Guys, posting on Calguns or sending $100.00 to Brandon isn't going to work this time.

We need to defend or take back our rights just like the Blacks, gays, illegal immigrants, farm workers, and unions did.

We need to protest. We need to march. We need a physical in your face demonstration to show we exist and are willing to mobilize to protect our rights given to us by the constitution.

What do we need to do?

Get a march permit?

Get a permit for assembly (another supposedly legal right outlawed in California)

Can we do a march with unlocked unloaded open carry of AR15's and AK47's?

We didn't let the crazy kid have access to our guns.

We didn't look the other way when one of our student patients threatened to shoot up a movie theater.

Lets do something!!

Lets not sit here like a bunch of Jews in nazi Germany when the government began to disarm and isolate them.

Any ideas?

Ill help organize a LA protest.
Um, let's not.

Barney Frank, who is very politically saavy, told the LGBT crowd what they need to do to win in politics is... skip the protests and marches and imitate the NRA!

From:
Rep. Barney Frank on ENDA, DADT and How LGBTs Should Lobby Like the NRA
by Karen Ocamb on April 12, 2010

http://lgbtpov.frontiersla.com/2010/04/12/rep-barney-frank-on-enda-dadt-and-how-lgbts-should-lobby-like-the-nra/

<snip>

Are petitions effective?

“It has less effect. It’s better than nothing. Sending in your own individual letter is the best or your own email or go in to see them. Sending the same copy of a letter – it’s better than nothing. Signing a petition is least important because it doesn’t indicate that much activity.”

I asked because it seems that some people think that just by signing a petition, they’ve completed their duty as an activist. Frank said:

“Or by marching on Washington. They tell me they were going to put pressure on Congress. All they put pressure on was the grass. Members of Congress didn’t know it [the National Equality March] happened because they didn’t call anybody. And I don’t understand why they think that works. By the way – you know who understands that? The National Rifle Association. They don’t have shoot-ins and rifle marches – they write and call. The NRA – person for person – they are extremely influential because they lobby that way.

So again – we’ve got the parliamentary ducks in order. Help us get the votes.”

<snip>

I explained that for those of us watching the healthcare debate who do not live inside the Beltway, we constantly heard analysts say that the public option or other measures were taken out of the bill to pass it – but they would be put in as “fixes” later. Hence my using the term “fix” to describe a way to get the bill passed. Frank then understood the framework I was using and said:

“Those are relatively non-controversial. Lobbying legislators is hard work and people want to do everything else but. They want to have marches. They want to think of strategies. And all what we need to know is to do that. They ought to think more like the NRA.”

Guntech
12-19-2012, 5:49 PM
Guys, posting on Calguns or sending $100.00 to Brandon isn't going to work this time.

We need to defend or take back our rights just like the Blacks, gays, illegal immigrants, farm workers, and unions did.

We need to protest. We need to march. We need a physical in your face demonstration to show we exist and are willing to mobilize to protect our rights given to us by the constitution.

What do we need to do?

Get a march permit?

Get a permit for assembly (another supposedly legal right outlawed in California)

Can we do a march with unlocked unloaded open carry of AR15's and AK47's?

We didn't let the crazy kid have access to our guns.

We didn't look the other way when one of our student patients threatened to shoot up a movie theater.

Lets do something!!

Lets not sit here like a bunch of Jews in nazi Germany when the government began to disarm and isolate them.

Any ideas?

Ill help organize a LA protest.


Thats an oxymoron, can't take back something you never had a right to. :facepalm:

GettoPhilosopher
12-19-2012, 5:54 PM
I've got a better idea....

www.calgunsfoundation.org/volunteer

If you signed up on a CGF volunteer list before SB249, you may not have made it to the general list. Sign up again, I'd rather delete duplicates than miss out on willing volunteers.

If you've got questions/concerns/ideas/suggestions, you can always hit me up at abailey@calgunsfoundation.org


Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

berto
12-19-2012, 6:00 PM
Let's not. The legislature has blanket power. Many are reflexively anti-gun. Do you really think an armed march will do anything but stiffen their resolve? Do you really think the reflexively anti-gun media will portray you as anything but dangerous and use an armed march as an example of why the legislature is not only correct but needs to pass even more restrictive laws? We need to pick our battles not horse charge machine gun nests.

javalos
12-19-2012, 6:03 PM
Marching is okay without arms, marching with arms just draws too much negative publicity for us. I suggest we mainly focus our energies on contributing to Calguns Foundation.

taperxz
12-19-2012, 6:15 PM
There is nothing in the bill yet. What are you protesting?

You can't protest until there is something to disagree about. Since nothing is in this bill, has no co sponsor, can be changed into any other kind of bill, you are wasting your time and the time of others who would blindly follow you.

This is just the reality of the situation.

Moonshine
12-19-2012, 6:17 PM
We shouldn't march, we need to follow the NRA lead and go about this quietly. We're not going to change anything by matching and the time and effort is MUCH better spent on donating to organizations that will help us in court and calling/writing our representatives... Which btw was EXTREMELY effective with SB 249 as I recall.

wildhawker
12-19-2012, 7:06 PM
The NRA wasn't lead on SB 249. STOP SB 249 was.

-Brandon

We shouldn't march, we need to follow the NRA lead and go about this quietly. We're not going to change anything by matching and the time and effort is MUCH better spent on donating to organizations that will help us in court and calling/writing our representatives... Which btw was EXTREMELY effective with SB 249 as I recall.

taperxz
12-19-2012, 7:13 PM
Would the OP please explain what part of the bill he is protesting? PLEEZ

Signed; a wife beater toting, tobacco chewing, gun toting, AR owning, rancher and construction worker.

taperxz
12-19-2012, 7:37 PM
Have you been asleep the last few days?????

NO! Can you post the bill and its content? Or are you asleep?

taperxz
12-19-2012, 7:44 PM
Let me help you a bit. Read this thread and tell me what parts of the bill you are protesting.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=659112

Moonshine
12-19-2012, 7:44 PM
Yes I stand corrected NRA wasn't lead on the effort to stop SB249 but my point is the same... This time around there's a much larger public outcry and I just think a march would play right into their hands... Especially if any open carry or gun cases are part of it. Imagine images of an unarmed Yee facing down a march just like an unarmed Boris Yelstin climbed on top of a tank. They can really turn this against us... That's all I'm saying is there's some serious spin potential and we shouldn't step into the bear trap.

sharxbyte
12-19-2012, 7:45 PM
I'd say march, but instead of real guns, cardboard cut outs, fliers etc.. Much less likely to get us A: shot, B: arrested, C:hosed, D: idiots bring loaded or illegal guns and we worsten the situation.

Gunlawyer
12-19-2012, 8:05 PM
Maybe bring plastic squirt guns, cardboard cutouts, empty gun cases, with t shirts and signs and banners saying that we cannot defend the innocent children without the right to carry and we support instant background checks and reasonable training to obtain CCW.

If we coud actually organize a large number then this could gain traction.

taperxz
12-19-2012, 8:13 PM
I will be marching to also voice my displeasure that somehow a lunatic's conduct makes me guilty of mas murder too. Its not just wrong, its criminal.

Its a blatant attempt to use Sandy hook, and the emotional trauma associated with it, to push an agenda they have been sitting one just waiting for such a crisis to exploit. Its sick that it happened, I agree, I have kids too, I had a fiance murdered, but its even sicker that some in our government and media are exploiting it to strip us of our rights and assets.

Never let a crisis go to waste.....remember that. Remember who said that and WAS proud to have said that.....The rush to judgement is on.

Yee told us he would introduce this bill after his last one was defeated. Well before the Sandy Hook incident. This was expected.

You still have not told us what part of the bill or the bill as a whole you wish to march on and protest.

CitaDeL
12-19-2012, 8:23 PM
Okay. Before I sign up for this march on the Capitol, someone has to explain to me two things;


1) If this is done with lots of participants, how do we manage those who insist on wearing BDUs, wife beaters, offensive t-shirts, and generally display behavior that is at best case humiliating to our cause (and at worst incredibly damaging).

2) And notwithstanding controlling our own people, how do we keep the Brady Campaign to Prevent Guns from infiltrating our homogenous demonstration of reasonable and rational gun owners to troll media response away from our intended message?

El Toro
12-19-2012, 8:25 PM
If it's not a Civil Rights march with ladies in pearls linked arm in arm with men in suits, it's just a wasted and potentially negative effort.

Give them nowhere to go. Make signs declaring "My 2nd amendment right is Inalienable", "I own guns for my Children", "I'm a Grandma who Carries", "If you Take the Guns You Might as well Take my Speech".

uxo2
12-19-2012, 8:27 PM
Please don't march unless you actually want to make them pass much broader gun control bills easier.

I'm not suggesting that's always a bad thing.

-Brandon
care to elaborate....


doing nothing and remaining quiet is not working.

AyatollahGondola
12-19-2012, 8:27 PM
Okay. Before I sign up for this march on the Capitol, someone has to explain to me two things;


1) If this is done with lots of participants, how do we manage those who insist on wearing BDUs, wife beaters, offensive t-shirts, and generally display behavior that is at best case humiliating to our cause (and at worst incredibly damaging).

2) And notwithstanding controlling our own people, how do we keep the Brady Campaign to Prevent Guns from infiltrating our homogenous demonstration of reasonable and rational gun owners to troll media response away from our intended message?Have you kept them from doing that without a march?

taperxz
12-19-2012, 8:30 PM
The NRA wasn't lead on SB 249. STOP SB 249 was.

-Brandon

care to elaborate....


doing nothing and remaining quiet is not working.

In other words let the pro's handle it just like last time.

Not to mention there is no text in this bill to fight yet. NONE,ZIP, ZILCH!

The contents of this bill have not been written yet.

CitaDeL
12-19-2012, 8:42 PM
Have you kept them from doing that without a march?

There is a time when you should open the door for the religious prosyletizers and a time to let them ring the bell and walk away.

Unless you are willing to go to the mat for your beliefs and rout your opponent in an embarassing public production, it is improper for you to open the door for your adversary.

A display like this immediately after a school shooting... is asking the antigunners to participate in your ritual suicide. Im sure they would enjoy helping you hold your Seppuku blade.

taperxz
12-19-2012, 8:46 PM
Hey, we are getting ahead of ourselves. First we need 500 men to march minimum.

Well if this isn't the understatement of the thread:facepalm:

Moonshine
12-19-2012, 8:46 PM
We haven't even see the text of Yee's bill and no fed ban has been introduced... This is a bit premature and will be the reaction the gun control wants.

OIFVet03
12-19-2012, 8:47 PM
We can do this but we have to do it right. We can't bring our guns and we have to look professional. We really have to win their"hearts and minds". Can't wear camo or anything like that. A nice suit would probably be better. Need to look professional.

sharxbyte
12-19-2012, 8:47 PM
If it's not a Civil Rights march with ladies in pearls linked arm in arm with men in suits, it's just a wasted and potentially negative effort.

Give them nowhere to go. Make signs declaring "My 2nd amendment right is Inalienable", "I own guns for my Children", "I'm a Grandma who Carries", "If you Take the Guns You Might as well Take my Speech".

+1... Part of me thinks that many of these mass shootings are a ruse by the liberal extremists to make guns and gun owners look bad. Sacrifice the few for the good of the many...

taperxz
12-19-2012, 8:51 PM
+1... Part of me thinks that many of these mass shootings are a ruse BY the liberal extremists to make guns and gun owners look bad. Sacrifice the few for the good of the many...

Ha ha ha he he he he buwahahaha REALLY?

Talking about making gun owners look.... different?

Only on the internet. What a well informed group we have tonight:facepalm:

AyatollahGondola
12-19-2012, 9:08 PM
There is a time when you should open the door for the religious prosyletizers and a time to let them ring the bell and walk away.

Unless you are willing to go to the mat for your beliefs and rout your opponent in an embarassing public production, it is improper for you to open the door for your adversary.

If you had a basement, I'd be checking it for pods.


I'm not going to get too involved in this thread...or any of them anymore, but for those so inclined, if and when the time comes, I'll say that I am willing to help out in any way I can if you decide to come to the capitol for an event.

sharxbyte
12-19-2012, 9:49 PM
Ha ha ha he he he he buwahahaha REALLY?

Talking about making gun owners look.... different?

Only on the internet. What a well informed group we have tonight:facepalm:

What? you dont think it's been done before with other issues, and/or its not possible/likely??

Lone_Gunman
12-19-2012, 10:07 PM
Listen guys, historically marching on capitols has not helped us with gun rights. We don't win when we march. We call attention to ourselves, which allows the media and the anti-gun lobby to use us as a backdrop for their anti-gun propaganda. If you march it WILL not be portrayed in a positive light NO MATTER how you conduct yourselves. Don't give the enemy ammunition to use against you. In California we don't win by marching in the streets. In California we win by overwhelming force applied during the legislative process, and we win in the courts. That is what we do, it's effective, and we do it well. Those of you who want to march are falling to the same "we've got to do something" mentality that is causing so many knee jerk anti-gun reactions right now. If you march on the Capitol it won't help, and very well might hurt. Now, if you read that, and your response is, "Well I don't care if it hurts our cause or not, I'm gonna be heard." Then there's nothing more I can say to you.

SickofSoCal
12-19-2012, 11:46 PM
Media wouldn't cover it in a million years, and if they did, it would be all negative with heavy spin.

pardou
12-20-2012, 12:13 AM
I would march alongside you, and support a peaceful organized protest. This is a great way to show a group who wants change to the california legislature. I will not support bring any sort of weapons to the march, it would be a very negitave thing for the 'anti' gun public to see.

BMartin1776
12-20-2012, 1:30 AM
need to do both frankly and it must be massive... something just organized here wont work. Going to need help from other org's and conserv radio personalities to get the word out. It has to be done right or be as viral as other marches

wolfwood
12-20-2012, 2:16 AM
Here is my one personal experience with how media will tell whatever story they want. I want to say this was 2006. What later was approximated at 40,000 people was marching on City Hall in San Diego to show their support for illegals or whatever. So there is this counter protest going on on the other side of City hall. All these guys with their minute men shirts and other tough guy cloths. I am just a humble jiu jitsu instructor that on occasion writes science fiction. No fancy t shirts for me. I assumed I could recruit some of these guys to form a line that could not be crossed. Between their go back where you came from rhetoric, defend the homeland with my HK etc. I assumed they would sign up in droves.

A retired Navy nurse was the only one to follow and this guy I went to college with that was trying to run for congress. So they came and all around were gang clothing, Mexican flags, the whole gambit of anti American take back the Southwest paraphernalia.

So with bullhorn and sign I began what was essentially a one man protest. And they stopped dead in their tracks the whole first row. Meaning by default the entire march. Then the sky darkened with primarily water bottles being thrown at me. The others having been far behind me departed and I was there representing the Campaign for Liberty on my own. This went on for a bit until the cops grabbed me as I recited Tom Tancredo's platform via bullhorn and the crowd turned more aggressive. Being a first generation Vietnamese (half blood if you know me and are wondering) I felt it appropriate to make this point.

Point being, I made all 4 local channels that night and through creative editing was made to be a part of the look at me I am wearing a gauche t shirt and am looking real tough. The crowd was never once shown with a wide angle. Always tight shots that would show the handful of American flags so it appeared the vast majority of flag wielders were waving American flags when in fact the opposite was true. The gang members from logan heights were not shown. The regular citizens on the other protest also were not shown just the obnoxious guys that probably never even served.

I have engaged in a number of other acts of civil disobedience and political protest over the years and it is clear to me that the media will figure out a way to present their narrative.

If you want to organize something, organize a firearms safety course. Teach people how to do function checks, the fundamentals of marksmanship, how to not flag a person, clear the weapon before you hand it off.

People in California are weird about guns because they did not grow up with them. Its like when City folk go out to the country for the first time and see a deer, expecting something magical to happen. No dude its just a deer. Same with guns. Trust me the magic goes away as a child after the first few thousands rounds and dozens of critiques of your stance. Most people in California view guns with a a certain mystique just because its alien to them.

Those people that march around with guns are just rude people. I got a right to wear a shirt that says I hate white people. That does not mean you should. Anybody that shows up with the express purpose of disturbing people just to show them you can deserves what they get. If its at City Hall that's fine but someplace where people are just trying to enjoy their day that ain't right.

AJAX22
12-20-2012, 2:49 AM
Lees home address is a matter of public record.

Not sure if it's wise or legal but it's out there. Might have more of a magnifing effect than marching on his office.

wolfwood
12-20-2012, 3:10 AM
Lees home address is a matter of public record.

Not sure if it's wise or legal but it's out there. Might have more of a magnifing effect than marching on his office.

Personal life

Leland Yee married his wife Maxine in 1972 and together they raised four children who attended San Francisco public schools. He currently lives in San Francisco's Sunset District

Would you want people at your house disturbing your family?

bubbapug1
12-20-2012, 6:07 AM
Just for the record, I never said march on his house.

You Nay Sayers go to court. I've been to court many times. The only winners in trials are the attorneys.

taperxz
12-20-2012, 6:40 AM
So what have we "won?"

Concealed carry in many more counties and forceful compliance not to mention AR's

Yee's comes out of the blue and comes within inches passing a bill to decimate bullet buttoned guns. He also adds constructive possession in to the picture.


Ignore me all you want but everyone here should ignore you for your lacking poltical science skills. Yee never came close to passing sb249

When were the protests that backfired??

OK so you dropped out of history class in high school? Google Black Panthers

How big were they?? How were they conducted??

Small, forceful and scary. Like you and your plan of suits:facepalm:

Overwhelming force applied during the legislative process?? We haven't overwhelmed anything by ANY stretch of even a child's imagination.

Still ignorant? McDonald, Heller, and now even Moore is not overwhelming? Why do you even post here:facepalm:

Why educate him on featureless build rifles?


What makes you think when consulting the AG Harris, staffers didn't explain to him what a feartureless build is. ITS NOT A SECRET


Everyone has their plan. I'm looking for protester marchers, not rioters or vigilantes.


NO you are wrong! The organizers and groups that are successful have a plan. You are just an individual stirring the post with a single agenda. YOU!

I'm positive you missed your calling as a cheerleader in high school didn't you?


Heck man....we are THE PUBLIC.

Who is we?

AyatollahGondola
12-20-2012, 6:42 AM
I had a permit issued for an event at the state capitol for a 2nd amendment theme in September, but I retracted and cancelled it because we already had another one coming up there for a different issue, and something else going on elsewhere too. It was just too much for me at once.
I am planning on ressurrecting that one now that I'm not under the gun so-to-speak. I'm not going to thrash it out here though. If you're really interested, and you don't find venue available here, you can email or pm me. We're always up for 1st amendment activities, weather, funding, and logisitics permitting

CitaDeL
12-20-2012, 6:47 AM
I am not proposing this weekend, I'd say mid to late march. But there has to be some counter to whats happening and the attack coming. The attempt to jam a federal bill through quickly will surprise all of us for an admin that has basically been stuck in the mud since obama care.

Please don't refer to me as a religious prosyletizer, that's an insult on many levels. My commitment to gun rights has been unwavering for 40 years.

The reference to religious prosyletizers was pointed at the Brady Campaign, and by having any major public display relating to firearms, you are inviting them to the doorstep where they will recieve equal time (Or worse, highjack your time) in the media. So, effectively, you will take a slow news day, wrap it up in tactical bacon and serve it on a silver platter for our opposition to argue that guns are evil and disparage the minority of gun owners who make their home in California.

Bear in mind, I am not questioning your commitment, just your methods in pursuing your goal. I have been to the Capitol. I know who works there. And aside from using the media as a platform to reach a broader audience with a stately backdrop, there is no purpose to be there other than self-gratification if you cannot control the content of the message the media carries to the onlookers.

I implore you to let those who are in public relations and sucessful interacting with media, do what they are good at, because the Brady's can't wait to react to what you are planning.

taperxz
12-20-2012, 6:48 AM
What? you dont think it's been done before with other issues, and/or its not possible/likely??

The government may and has done many things. Are you really going to insinuate that the government plotted to have 26 kids and teachers killed?

REALLY?? C'MON MAN!!!

The doctors and police are already saying this guy had been mentally ill for years and his mom wanted to put him in a place to get help...

Now you bring up government conspiracy?

Lone_Gunman
12-20-2012, 7:37 AM
Just for the record, I never said march on his house.

You Nay Sayers go to court. I've been to court many times. The only winners in trials are the attorneys.

I would have more respect for you if you did march on his house. If you're going to insist on marching, you may as well make the point that you're serious.

taperxz
12-20-2012, 7:44 AM
I would have more respect for you if you did march on his house. If you're going to insist on marching, you may as well make the point that you're serious.

This^^^ And if he was truly serious he would give his real name, and contact info so that a well organized event could be started with a serious nature to it since he wants to spearhead this activism.

bubbapug1
12-20-2012, 7:57 AM
Keep it up guys, maybe we can make the "threads that have gone full retard" listing in the contributors area. Its easy to see why the anti's have such an easy time picking us apart, there are many wack jobs just in this thread.

AyatollahGondola
12-20-2012, 8:16 AM
This^^^ And if he was truly serious he would give his real name, and contact info so that a well organized event could be started with a serious nature to it since he wants to spearhead this activism.

Well, if that's all you're after I'll give mine...again,
Davi@SaveOurState.info
Davi Rodrigues

I'll spearhead if you like, or just support and participate. Either way.

curtisfong
12-20-2012, 8:27 AM
Did you guys even READ this post?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=9963266&postcount=8
"They tell me they were going to put pressure on Congress. All they put pressure on was the grass."

I see absolutely no sign that anybody even *read* it. It is becoming a disturbing trend. People posting transmit-only without even bothering to read more than the OP.

What is up with that?

Hoologan
12-20-2012, 8:34 AM
There is a time when you should open the door for the religious prosyletizers and a time to let them ring the bell and walk away.

Unless you are willing to go to the mat for your beliefs and rout your opponent in an embarassing public production, it is improper for you to open the door for your adversary.

A display like this immediately after a school shooting... is asking the antigunners to participate in your ritual suicide. Im sure they would enjoy helping you hold your Seppuku blade.


Agreed. The whole point of the 2A is to preserve the ability to show force by marching on the capitol with your guns in hand, regardless of what the stinking law says about firearms in public. ...And you guys are suggesting cardboard cutouts? :facepalm: They're all going to laugh at you. Do it right, or don't do it at all, and the time has not come yet to do it right. ...and hopefully it'll never come to that.

bubbapug1
12-20-2012, 9:14 AM
Did you guys even READ this post?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=9963266&postcount=8
"They tell me they were going to put pressure on Congress. All they put pressure on was the grass."

I see absolutely no sign that anybody even *read* it. It is becoming a disturbing trend. People posting transmit-only without even bothering to read more than the OP.

What is up with that?

I read it. Did you follow the civil rights movement of the 60's? Blacks tried for over a century to use "the system" to gain civil rights. The "system was rigged against them. Eventually they took to marching, and now Obama is president. Now I cannot say he is a good or bad president yet, but he is black, and he is the president...and that is the equivilant to gun owners of getting "shall issue" in California.

So while Paladan has his points, he and Barney Frank are not the end all of knowledge in the political universe, but I do apprecaite his comments and well thought our opinions in the matter at hand.

Zimz
12-20-2012, 9:32 AM
Let me know when and where. I know a few people who will join. I agree we need to wait until the gun control proposals are submitted before we do this, but there is no harm in planning for the inevitable. What we know right know is there will be some sort of regulation proposed. Why not start planning our rebuttal early? An organized march with respectable gun owners (unarmed) will only help our cause. Count me in.

Wheelinarcher
12-20-2012, 11:59 AM
I agree that our voices need to be heard! By sitting and complaining on forums isn't going to help our cause. In the past we have sat by watched the liberals take our constitutional rights away and every time this happens, the price of sport shooting goes up exponentially. I have three children that shoot with me almost every weekend at the range and it is getting to the point where I cant afford it with the cost of ammo going up every month more than gas is!

We are very fragmented as a group and that is exactly what the legislators want. We cant depend on associations such as the NRA to fight our fight by themselves. What the legislators need to know is that we are voters that will decide at the polls, that is the only way we could take a stance. If they realize that their district has gun right advocates, they will listen, otherwise the very vocal uneducated liberals will continue to push their anti-gun agenda.

I for one would march on the capitol to show solidarity and let our state and local legislators know that we are going to organize and take a stance for the law abiding citizens that enjoy the shooting sports and would like to defend our family, friends and loved ones if need be.

Just my 2 cents :43:

stingray4540
12-20-2012, 12:35 PM
Put me on the invite list if this ever happens.
Although I would suggest no guns, or camouflage, vests, etc.

scarville
12-20-2012, 12:41 PM
Would you want people at your house disturbing your family?
In truth it wouldn't make any difference. He'll just call out the cops. Heck, if he gets lucky a few gun owners will be killed and he will have even more blood to dance in.

lilro
12-20-2012, 12:57 PM
Marching will only work if we have a large mass of people. How many people in CA own ARs? We'd need at least half of them to show up. And we'd have to show up with our ARs. Loaded, without a protest permit. As long as we do things "by the book", and have no control over what goes IN "the book", we will continue to lose. I think only when the anti's at home actually SEE how many ARs are on the street in comparison to the number of crimes committed with them, will they MAYBE change their tune. As long as it remains 2-5 people on CBS, things will only get worse.

taperxz
12-20-2012, 1:57 PM
HEY GUYS CHECK IT OUT! Bubbapug1 Sent me a PM telling me he was going to call the police for posting in his thread. NO JOKE! And you want to march up to Sac and protest with him?? The internet certain brings in all walks of life doesn't it.

Window_Seat
12-20-2012, 2:01 PM
Guys, gals...

All such a protest effort would do is make lawmakers sitting in their offices look out the window, laugh and call us radical toothless right winged pancake belly floppers.

What we need to do is put on our coats and ties, and be present in the Senate and Assembly galleries, as well as in the committee hearing rooms when our bills (anti or not) are being heard. We can pack those rooms just like we packed the CA9 Court in Peruta/Richards/Baker, and have an impact based on our proven civility.

No noise making like the occupy/union thugs do inside the state Capitols, and no holding up picket signs. I would suggest that we do that, but before walking in, we all wear CGF lapel pins.

I feel that we can make a better impact if we all show up quietly and testify politely with facts, numbers and data when it's appropriate to testify.

Shouldn't this be the way to go?

Spring is when committee hearings start to happen, so we have time to prepare.

Erik.

taperxz
12-20-2012, 2:06 PM
Guys, gals...

All such a protest effort would do is make lawmakers sitting in their offices look out the window, laugh and call us radical toothless right winged pancake belly floppers.

What we need to do is put on our coats and ties, and be present in the Senate and Assembly galleries, as well as in the committee hearing rooms when our bills (anti or not) are being heard. We can pack those rooms just like we packed the CA9 Court in Peruta/Richards/Baker, and have an impact based on our proven civility.

No noise making like the occupy/union thugs do inside the state Capitols, and no holding up picket signs. I would suggest that we do that, but before walking in, we all wear CGF lapel pins.

I feel that we can make a better impact if we all show up quietly and testify politely with facts, numbers and data when it's appropriate to testify.

Shouldn't this be the way to go?

Spring is when committee hearings start to happen, so we have time to prepare.

Erik.

This is the professional way to do it.

OlderThanDirt
12-20-2012, 2:25 PM
I recall a march on the Capital a long time ago...

http://www.iveknownrivers.org/stories/vol_002/panthermania-2006-04-13/beeheadline.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/889e3223ee1ee35922bc39dc376243d0/tumblr_mfalcw6DiC1qap9gno1_500.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj38/blackkos/BlackPantherParty.jpg

http://instruct.westvalley.edu/kelly/History20_on_campus/Online%20Readings/Images/Black_panthers.jpg

gunsmith
12-20-2012, 2:26 PM
o.p has a good idea.
I would like to add that we also protest any law firm representing the anti's, it will send a clear message their racism is unwelcome.

gunsmith
12-20-2012, 2:28 PM
Marching will only work if we have a large mass of people. How many people in CA own ARs? We'd need at least half of them to show up. And we'd have to show up with our ARs. Loaded, without a protest permit. As long as we do things "by the book", and have no control over what goes IN "the book", we will continue to lose. I think only when the anti's at home actually SEE how many ARs are on the street in comparison to the number of crimes committed with them, will they MAYBE change their tune. As long as it remains 2-5 people on CBS, things will only get worse.


ummm, NO!

bubbapug1
12-20-2012, 4:03 PM
That panther march looked intense. I am looking for something a bit less intense with speakers who will address the rights granted by the consitution and the background of the people who wrote the bill of rights. Jefferson definitly had an idea of what he meant in the 2A.

Also, I just think the solidarity gained from a gathering would be nice to develop in a common cause.

I do not want to form a militia, I just want to get our voice out to the lawmakers in a forum not dictated by the press or radicals. We are the people. Let's be realistic, the prss is lookinf for controversy, they will make up whatever story suits them to sell a paper or hold you eyeballs onto a TV.

The lawmakers will count how many people were at the ralley. They need to understand the intensity of our commitment to maintain our unalienable rights.

There are those in tis thread who ask, "What are you protesting?" Do they not precieve the huge groundswell that is headed our way due to Sandy Hook? The repurcussions of the shooting will be huge, and the damage must be contained.

taperxz
12-20-2012, 4:17 PM
That panther march looked intense. I am looking for something a bit less intense with speakers who will address the rights granted by the consitution and the background of the people who wrote the bill of rights. Jefferson definitly had an idea of what he meant in the 2A.

Also, I just think the solidarity gained from a gathering would be nice to develop in a common cause.

I do not want to form a militia, I just want to get our voice out to the lawmakers in a forum not dictated by the press or radicals. We are the people. Let's be realistic, the prss is lookinf for controversy, they will make up whatever story suits them to sell a paper or hold you eyeballs onto a TV.

The lawmakers will count how many people were at the ralley. They need to understand the intensity of our commitment to maintain our unalienable rights.

There are those in tis thread who ask, "What are you protesting?" Do they not precieve the huge groundswell that is headed our way due to Sandy Hook? The repurcussions of the shooting will be huge, and the damage must be contained.

No what we are saying is that Yee's bill is separate from the federal talk and since you want to march on SAC you will be protesting Yee's bill which has yet to be written. Much like the federal government has not come up with anything let alone be written. In other words you are all up in arms over something no one knows about yet.

For those that want to see what this person is like i share this little thing from the OP to me:


bubbapug1 I put you on ignore. Your a troll, a pest, and possibly a psychopath. If you try to contact me in anyway I will contact the police immediatly. I want nothing to do with you.

All this^^ because what i have posted in this thread.

bubbapug1
12-20-2012, 4:32 PM
No what we are saying is that Yee's bill is separate from the federal talk and since you want to march on SAC you will be protesting Yee's bill which has yet to be written. Much like the federal government has not come up with anything let alone be written. In other words you are all up in arms over something no one knows about yet.

For those that want to see what this person is like i share this little thing from the OP to me:



All this^^ because what i have posted in this thread.

Your a troll....

Look at your posts, they are nothing but attempts to start arguments. If that's your thing go for it, but I will not engage in a mud wrestling event with a pig.

Back on ignore...I sent you the PM as I knew you would post it, your attempts are purely ad hominem, and have nothing to do with the thread subject. They have been purely about attacking the messenger, not the message.

And yes, if you try to contact me, I will report you to the authorities...I think your a goof ball.

GREASY357
12-20-2012, 4:44 PM
gloccupy yee street

taperxz
12-20-2012, 5:12 PM
Your a troll....

Look at your posts, they are nothing but attempts to start arguments. If that's your thing go for it, but I will not engage in a mud wrestling event with a pig.

Back on ignore...I sent you the PM as I knew you would post it, your attempts are purely ad hominem, and have nothing to do with the thread subject. They have been purely about attacking the messenger, not the message.

And yes, if you try to contact me, I will report you to the authorities...I think your a goof ball.

How in gods green earth could i possibly contact you? You're an anonymous poster on a public forum.

What you are proposing is ridiculous! Let the NRA, CRPA lobbyists and CGF handle what needs to be handled.

You are just being a fly in the ointment and your proposal will do nothing but screw things up for people that are working hard to stop this.

Do you really want to make things harder? Do you really want to push YOUR agenda and ruin 2A rights for all of CA and the nation? THATS WHAT YOU ARE DOING UNTIL SUCH ACTION IS WARRANTED!

Why would anyone follow someone like you after threatening to call the police on an anonymous poster in a public forum when you are nothing but the same???

So who is the psychotic one now?

MOA1
12-20-2012, 5:35 PM
Wouldn't money be better spent hiring a silver tongue devil to do the talking?

A few slick talkers would be more effective than an angry mob. At least in the public eye.

CCWFacts
12-20-2012, 5:37 PM
A march is a really bad idea. This thread is a really bad idea. The idea of a march comes up here regularly and it's always a bad idea. A small number of people would show up and would be portrayed in the worst possible way by the media. They will interview the most extreme and inarticulate person they can find, and will edit the interview to show us in the worst possible way, and that's all it's going to be. Please let this idea die and be forgotten.

skyscraper
12-20-2012, 5:56 PM
this thread delivers

OleCuss
12-20-2012, 5:58 PM
The only time a march like this really helps the desired cause is when it comes with serious political clout.

In our case, marching would be the most obvious way to accelerate bad legislation in California. As was suggested early on, this is not always the worst thing possible, but I don't think it is desirable at this time.

lilro
12-20-2012, 6:00 PM
That panther march looked intense. I am looking for something a bit less intense with speakers who will address the rights granted by the consitution and the background of the people who wrote the bill of rights. Jefferson definitly had an idea of what he meant in the 2A.

Also, I just think the solidarity gained from a gathering would be nice to develop in a common cause.

I do not want to form a militia, I just want to get our voice out to the lawmakers in a forum not dictated by the press or radicals. We are the people. Let's be realistic, the prss is lookinf for controversy, they will make up whatever story suits them to sell a paper or hold you eyeballs onto a TV.

The lawmakers will count how many people were at the ralley. They need to understand the intensity of our commitment to maintain our unalienable rights.

There are those in tis thread who ask, "What are you protesting?" Do they not precieve the huge groundswell that is headed our way due to Sandy Hook? The repurcussions of the shooting will be huge, and the damage must be contained.

If marching is your planned method of acting, it will need to be MORE intense if you plan on actually achieving change. That's the biggest problem with marches. In a state of millions, a couple hundred people yelling loudly won't do anything but make it worse. Until we can get Million Man March,or Civil Rights march numbers, protest is a waste of time.

dragonboy221
12-20-2012, 6:06 PM
Guys, posting on Calguns or sending $100.00 to Brandon isn't going to work this time.

We need to defend or take back our rights just like the Blacks, gays, illegal immigrants, farm workers, and unions did.

We need to protest. We need to march. We need a physical in your face demonstration to show we exist and are willing to mobilize to protect our rights given to us by the constitution.

What do we need to do?

Get a march permit?

Get a permit for assembly (another supposedly legal right outlawed in California)

Can we do a march with unlocked unloaded open carry of AR15's and AK47's?

We didn't let the crazy kid have access to our guns.

We didn't look the other way when one of our student patients threatened to shoot up a movie theater.

Lets do something!!

Lets not sit here like a bunch of Jews in nazi Germany when the government began to disarm and isolate them.

Any ideas?

Ill help organize a LA protest.
lol...

"Let them march all they want, as long as they pay their taxes"

Alexander Haig


the only way to win back this country is to have another American Revolution. a pu$$y @ss peaceful protest isnt going to solve anything. all american gun owners should hit the streets FULLY ARMED TO THE TEETH and HANG all corrupt politicians, cops, and banksters. thats the ONLY way to win.

let me know when you organized a event like this, then you will have my attention.

till then, all this peaceful protest crap is futile.

bubbapug1
12-20-2012, 6:53 PM
lol...

"Let them march all they want, as long as they pay their taxes"

Alexander Haig


the only way to win back this country is to have another American Revolution. a pu$$y @ss peaceful protest isnt going to solve anything. all american gun owners should hit the streets FULLY ARMED TO THE TEETH and HANG all corrupt politicians, cops, and banksters. thats the ONLY way to win.

let me know when you organized a event like this, then you will have my attention.

till then, all this peaceful protest crap is futile.

You gotta start somewhere dragonboy. This thread is a bit out in front, but trust my instincts on this. In 2 months time gun owners will be outraged by the over reach of the antis....and they will march.

I also agree with the other poster who stated you need BIG numbers to have an effect. One marcher at a time. We are up to twenty. At least we could have a two table poker tournament if we all get arrested.

Trenchfoot
12-20-2012, 7:09 PM
all american gun owners should hit the streets FULLY ARMED TO THE TEETH and HANG all corrupt politicians, cops, and banksters. thats the ONLY way to win.

let me know when you organized a event like this, then you will have my attention.

till then, all this peaceful protest crap is futile.

Great, advocating lynching American citizens...

If the media ever asks you for an interview, please decline politely.

AyatollahGondola
12-20-2012, 7:48 PM
Guys, gals...

All such a protest effort would do is make lawmakers sitting in their offices look out the window, laugh and call us radical toothless right winged pancake belly floppers.

What we need to do is put on our coats and ties, and be present in the Senate and Assembly galleries, as well as in the committee hearing rooms when our bills (anti or not) are being heard. We can pack those rooms just like we packed the CA9 Court in Peruta/Richards/Baker, and have an impact based on our proven civility.

No noise making like the occupy/union thugs do inside the state Capitols, and no holding up picket signs. I would suggest that we do that, but before walking in, we all wear CGF lapel pins.

I feel that we can make a better impact if we all show up quietly and testify politely with facts, numbers and data when it's appropriate to testify.

Shouldn't this be the way to go?

Spring is when committee hearings start to happen, so we have time to prepare.

Erik.

Erik,
The committees do not have to let everyone speak. When Amminao chaired the committee on public safety during the first series of long gun ban mmetings, he hand picked the opposition to the bill, and told everyone else to pound sand. I got up there, but he shut me down in less than a minute. They're unlikely to entertain us like you say. The fact is, the legislature writes the rules. when they want a show for their own pet bills, they allow a hundred people; When it's something they don't like, they set maximums of two speakers limited to two minutes. It's rally angering if you've sat through an hour and a half of their dribble on other bills, only to get turned away when your bill comes up. I've been through plenty of them that way. And I live here; always have, so I don't have to drive for 2 or 7 hours only to be cast out like an annoying bum. I remember meeting Sam Paredes in the hallway after Ammiano had shut me down, and I told him I was done with the legislative remedy. I calmed down, and went back, but only because I have been keeping a bargain with myself that weighing in legislatively was not to be taken too seriously. I'm not trying to discourage anyone, because at Save Our State, we are always trying to get more people involved in their government. If people started showing up in the committees in droves, the bastards and *****es in there might start paying attention to people. But it would have to be all the committees, much of the time, A few contentious bills that draw a crowd once in a while has become common and is just another annoyance to them. In order for committee attendance to impress them, it would have to become the norm for a few hundred to a thousand show up every day.

If you organize an event, protest, or whatever you want to call it, in the very least, you control your speech and not some whiny *** politician with a penchant for controlling others. You can talk for an hour or ten minutes, and they can't say sheet. It's your state capitol too. The more you make use of it on your own terms, the better your chances are of making an impact.

taperxz
12-20-2012, 8:03 PM
You gotta start somewhere dragonboy. This thread is a bit out in front, but trust my instincts on this. In 2 months time gun owners will be outraged by the over reach of the antis....and they will march.

I also agree with the other poster who stated you need BIG numbers to have an effect. One marcher at a time. We are up to twenty. At least we could have a two table poker tournament if we all get arrested.

Your instincts? LMAO your instincts are to call the police on internet posters who disagree with your ideas.

You have no credible instincts.

taperxz
12-20-2012, 8:05 PM
BTW putting people on Ignore, is a fail of integrity and honesty. Everyone here knows you can still read comments of the ignored when you are not logged in.

SilverTauron
12-20-2012, 8:13 PM
To oppose a problem you must address the cause, not the symptom.

Think:Why would the common man and his woman support gun control? The answer is because everything they see on TV, at work, and in the news media is anti-gun. If Magpul Dynamics owned the media outlets in this country we wouldn't need this forum or the NRA's lobbying group. Channel 7 would be spreading the good cheer about the 2nd Amendment for us.

Thanks to the leftist ownership of nearly every mainstream media channel on the face of the Earth, our cause withers on the vine for lack of viewers. As long as the enemy controls the TV screen, our public protests will be for naught. So what if every gun owner in America marches on DC, all 90 million of us?

MSNBC would cover any pro-2nd Amendment story as a terrorist mob of racist white dudes marching on the White House, and they'd strategically omit footage of women and ethnic gun owners to ensure Joe and Jane America received the "proper" message. We'd be rotting in jail for nothing, because our message would never reach the eyes and ears of the people who needed to see it the most.

Forget protests. We all need to make a lot of money and buyout a controlling interest in NBC & CNN

Tnavres
12-20-2012, 8:13 PM
I agree that we need to be active. We cannot be silent during this time. An Idea I had was to put together groups to stand outside all the local gun stores that are loaded with people buying guns. We should be asking them to donate to the Calguns fund, NRA, NRA-ILA, etc.. If they want to own a gun they need to support the cause of freedom and upholding our 2A rights.

If you know of this already happening in the Inland Empire please PM me.

Mitch
12-21-2012, 5:36 AM
Bubba, before getting into marches, let me ask you something: how many n00bs have you taken to the range this year?

Getting people to the range is how you win hearts and minds. Forget marches.

SickofSoCal
12-21-2012, 8:52 AM
People in California are weird about guns because they did not grow up with them. Its like when City folk go out to the country for the first time and see a deer, expecting something magical to happen.

Add to this: 61% of California's population is located in the southland, which is extremely urban.

On that basis alone, it's a battle of demographics and the people would gladly vote themselves out of the 2A sooner or later. California can't be fixed.

bubbapug1
12-21-2012, 8:54 AM
Bubba, before getting into marches, let me ask you something: how many n00bs have you taken to the range this year?

Getting people to the range is how you win hearts and minds. Forget marches.

I've taken about 65 to 70 people to the range. That can be confirmed with On Target in Laguna Niguel. Many people I take have bought memberships.

I also have spend time teaching people I met on calguns how to reload, and have allowed some members to use my mill to build 80% lowers, but I have stopped doing so because not everyone who says they know how to use a mill really does know how to use a mill.

I also promote XTC, mid range, and long range matches on this and other boards - see my posts to that effect.

I rent private ranges at Burro and invite many of the neighbors with their kids to join me. I can say I have converted many non-shooters to shooters, with the exception of my offspring (female) and their respective moms. The local kids especially like shooting my Browning 50 bmg...semi auto of course.

I also recently just completed my RSO certification process for Camp Pendleton as one RSO is required to hold match events and I want a club I shoot with to have the resources to do so.

I am not in the training or gun business, but I do what I can. I also have converted most of my unarmed neighbors into armed neighbors through example, even though we have a huge variance of political views and economic classes.

Any you???

AyatollahGondola
12-21-2012, 9:06 AM
. California can't be fixed.

I see this alot here, and elsewhere too. It's not true. It's been proven too. The democrats/liberals "fixed" it their way. Back in the 80's and 90's, the state had a balancing mix of liberals/dems/conservatives/ republicans. The aerospace industry collapsed as did the military bases and other industries that employed a lot of people that filled the districts which provided more conservative republican affiliated voters. So to the dems, the state was "fixed" from it's earlier unfavorable political climate. To say it cannot be now is a self-fulfilling prophecy, although it might be "fixed" to a more favorable political climate by factors not linked to political efforts.

TF_CAM
12-21-2012, 10:01 AM
I'd say march, but instead of real guns, cardboard cut outs, fliers etc.. Much less likely to get us A: shot, B: arrested, C:hosed, D: idiots bring loaded or illegal guns and we worsten the situation.

I like this idea, and i would be down to march :D

Glock22Fan
12-21-2012, 10:22 AM
Listen guys, historically marching on capitols has not helped us with gun rights. We don't win when we march. We call attention to ourselves, which allows the media and the anti-gun lobby to use us as a backdrop for their anti-gun propaganda. If you march it WILL not be portrayed in a positive light NO MATTER how you conduct yourselves. Don't give the enemy ammunition to use against you. In California we don't win by marching in the streets. In California we win by overwhelming force applied during the legislative process, and we win in the courts. That is what we do, it's effective, and we do it well. Those of you who want to march are falling to the same "we've got to do something" mentality that is causing so many knee jerk anti-gun reactions right now. If you march on the Capitol it won't help, and very well might hurt. Now, if you read that, and your response is, "Well I don't care if it hurts our cause or not, I'm gonna be heard." Then there's nothing more I can say to you.


I agree 1000%

Mitch
12-21-2012, 11:36 AM
I've taken about 65 to 70 people to the range. That can be confirmed with On Target in Laguna Niguel. Many people I take have bought memberships.

Well, that's a heck of a lot more effective than any marching you can do. So you take n00bs to teh range and so do I (every month). What if instead of getting 100 Calgunners together for a march, 100 Calgunners instead resolved to take at least one n00b to the range every month? How about 500 Calgunners? How about targeting members of the press, politicians, other influential people?

That would make an impact, an unequivocally positive impact.

SilverTauron
12-21-2012, 7:50 PM
Now on to Mitch

You are missing the point.

The objective of a march would be to gather gun owners into a mix, to get them used to doing things in mass to protect themselves, and to show onlookers and the lawmakers that gun owners aren't all wearing hockey masks and camo and have one tooth (maybe why they call it a toothbrush possibly?).

The onlookers think guns are a clear and present danger to public safety which requires commensurate regulation. They elect lawmakers who have like minded views.

Neither party will be impressed with a mob of people marching in defense of the right to keep and bear arms. Phone calls will be made, police vehicles will arrive with SWAT backup, and the CA media will surely claim that the right-wing terrorist mob is proof gun PROHIBITION is needed, not just control. If the rest of America wants a conversation about gun rights, California's elected officials consider themselves well past the conversation stage.

Colt
12-22-2012, 1:02 PM
From civics class, three words in the State Constitution to remember:

Initiative

Referendum

Recall

AyatollahGondola
12-22-2012, 5:26 PM
From civics class, three words in the State Constitution to remember:

Initiative

Referendum

RecallUnfortunately it's plural though

Initiative$

Referendum$

Recall$

taperxz
12-22-2012, 5:50 PM
This idea is no different than the open carriers provoking LE to get the ban of UNLOADED open carry. Look what happened to open carry.

CGN don't follow amateurs! Let the system work. NRA CRPA SAF CGN