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View Full Version : Barbara Boxer Suggests Operation SOS


glockman19
12-19-2012, 8:14 AM
Barbara Boxer Suggests using the national Guard to "augment" local LE in keeping schools safe.

NOW...Does our national Guard at elementary, secondary and high schools make us a Police State?

Skidmark
12-19-2012, 8:20 AM
Barbara Boxer Suggests using the national Guard to "augment" local LE in keeping schools safe.

NOW... Does our national Guard at elementary, secondary and high schools make us a Police State?

Certainly a better task for them, here at home, than to be sent to combat in the oil fields.

crob
12-19-2012, 8:23 AM
Well, if that is her plan, then why not just allow staff to carry?

redhead
12-19-2012, 8:25 AM
Well, if that is her plan, then why not just allow staff to carry?

Does this mean National Guard would carry at the schools, or would they carry unloaded firearms?

SilverTauron
12-19-2012, 8:27 AM
Czar Bloomberg might have a problem with that plan in NYC.

a1c
12-19-2012, 8:34 AM
I actually have no problems with it, even though I think this is demagoguery, and I doubt it will accomplish anything.

Might boost recruiting numbers for the National Guard though.

Maestro Pistolero
12-19-2012, 8:46 AM
How about making POST training and certification (full scale police training) an available component of the teacher training programs? Then pay THOSE teachers comparably to police officers. So they'd actually be fully trained and vetted LE, but whose primary purpose is teaching.

The corollary is that in CA, even police officers are sometimes expected to disarm on campus. :facepalm:

Barbara Boxer is, and always has been dumb as a box. Having children spend their entire youth in a militarized environment is probably a bad idea and in any event will never be implemented in CA, short of a full scale foreign invasion.

LMTluvr
12-19-2012, 8:54 AM
I don't think personally this is a good idea nor is it just a plan " for the children".

" Because anybody has access to assault weapons we've had to place soldiers at schoolhouses".

This would in theory help schools. But what about all the other " gun free zone" targets.
Until they admit that an armed person is a portion of the solution were just gonna continue making left turns lapping the track.
Which in retrospect she's loosely admitting by wanting to place armed soldiers at schoolhouses".. But because theyre military its acceptable.I know that's a mission I would put in for, anything to help the kids to feel reasonably assured they're safe.

YubaRiver
12-19-2012, 8:54 AM
So we will have 19 and 20 year olds guarding 18 years olds?

LMTluvr
12-19-2012, 8:58 AM
I actually have no problems with it, even though I think this is demagoguery, and I doubt it will accomplish anything.

Might boost recruiting numbers for the National Guard though.

Agreed. It won't stop a shooter just deter him her to go after another soft " gun free zone" target.

LMTluvr
12-19-2012, 9:05 AM
How about making POST training and certification (full scale police training) an available component of the teacher training programs? Then pay THOSE teachers comparably to police officers. So they'd actually be fully trained and vetted LE, but whose primary purpose is teaching.

The corollary is that in CA, even police officers are sometimes expected to disarm on campus. :facepalm:

Barbara Boxer is, and always has been dumb as a box. Having children spend their entire youth in a militarized environment is probably a bad idea and in any event will never be implemented in CA, short of a full scale foreign invasion.

Why not just advanced weapons training?
That only continues the stigma carried by some that only those with LE credentials have the right to defend themselves and/ or others if they so choose.
Not to mention that's a lot of unnecessary training for the issue being discussed. Weapons training,legalities of self defense with firearms and be done with it. Spending upwards of 6 months learning case law, penal codes and all that is post training is just a waste of time and money.

donw
12-19-2012, 9:10 AM
does "Martial law" ring a bell?

CessnaDriver
12-19-2012, 9:13 AM
How about ROTC instead and recruiting offices?

OH that would flip the liberals lids.

LCU1670
12-19-2012, 9:15 AM
Not a good use of the Guard. Also, just because you are in the Guard, doesn't mean you are good with your weapon or know the laws.

Get rid of gun free zones, allow teachers who have ccw's to carry.

I have read LEO's against this because the bad person may get the concealed weapon from the teacher, this is true. But, you don't think they would get it from a person who's weapon they could see, versus one that is supposed to be unknown.

Also, I spent some time in the Guard, my wife too. Met a few people in the Guard that probably should not be armed in the school.

Wiz-of-Awd
12-19-2012, 9:18 AM
Agreed. It won't stop a shooter just deter him her to go after another soft " gun free zone" target.

Personally, I feel there is no deterring of these types of people, as they all too often shoot themselves at the end of their spree.

These types want to die, and take out others with them as their last stance against what they feel has ruined their lives.

F 'em.

A.W.D.

Knife Edge
12-19-2012, 9:35 AM
There are enough good willed type LEO's who would volunteer a day a month to protect their local school, in fact PDs already have ample volunteers called reserves. This is similar to airline pilots who carry and protect cockpits from hijacking.

This would be lower profile than ACUs and M-4s and your typical LEO is better trained in civil disorder and appropriate use if force when all things are considered.

Clownpuncher
12-19-2012, 9:37 AM
Certainly a better task for them, here at home, than to be sent to combat in the oil fields.

How about starting at the boarder.

Untamed1972
12-19-2012, 9:39 AM
Why not just advanced weapons training?
That only continues the stigma carried by some that only those with LE credentials have the right to defend themselves and/ or others if they so choose.
Not to mention that's a lot of unnecessary training for the issue being discussed. Weapons training,legalities of self defense with firearms and be done with it. Spending upwards of 6 months learning case law, penal codes and all that is post training is just a waste of time and money.

I concur......I am against anything that perpetuates or advances the notions that ONLY agents of the state can be trusted with guns or should have the ability to defend themselves...and others if they choose to actually do so (remember they are under no legal obligation to actually provide the services and protections they're being paid for).

Respect and responsibility must be returned to the individual citizen.

Fyathyrio
12-19-2012, 10:36 AM
I think the NG at schools is a GREAT idea! Here they are in Arkansas...

http://www.americaslibrary.gov/assets/aa/eisenhower/aa_eisenhower_littlerock_1_e.jpg

That worked out nicely, students are learning a LOT in this calm environment!

Oh, how about this success story from Ohio?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tw3G6mwy9Sg/S-DUanyq6qI/AAAAAAAAAmI/IT0DsPyagfI/s1600/kent-state-u--may-4--1970--ohio--2795-20080924-110.jpg

Looks like a really safe place to learn!

krazz
12-19-2012, 10:37 AM
Another wacked out stupid plan from a stupid individual. Making schools prison won't solve dick. Who's to say that the next Lochner/Lanza won't sign up for the guard?

This is liberal thinking at its finest...let's put armed people in schools in order to keep armed people out. :facepalm:

safewaysecurity
12-19-2012, 10:52 AM
But guns at school are dangerous I thought...

CCWFacts
12-19-2012, 11:00 AM
Barbara Boxer Suggests using the national Guard to "augment" local LE in keeping schools safe.

That's only slightly more ridiculous than LEOs to prevent mass shootings. These mass shooting events are so extremely rare that if you deployed LEOs or NGs to stop them, at every school, you will end up spending billions and billions of dollars per life saved. Far more lives would be saved by spending that money on stuff like preventing smoking, drunk driving, or deporting criminal aliens, all mundane and politically troublesome proposals.

The real problems with violence in our schools are, unfortunately, related to gang members. If we wanted to make our schools safe we would arrest and vigorously prosecute students who brought weapons (real weapons, not nail clippers) to schools, or who got in fights. Unfortunately that would result in a situation which would violate students' rights by having the wrong impact on the wrong people (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/doe-school-suspensions-boys-blacks-disabled-may-violate-civil-rights-laws). Real school safety measures would have a disparate impact, and disparate impact is worse than any number of dead children of conservatives.

So it's better to deploy the national guard and pass an AWB because that would only violate the civil rights of conservatives, and no one cares about them.

That's what this whole thing is about.

stix213
12-19-2012, 11:33 AM
I'm fine with this as a temporary stop gap measure.

JackRydden224
12-19-2012, 11:37 AM
California spends $50,000 a year for each prisoner. How about we spend less on criminals to strengthen campus security?How about cutting illegal entitlement? Illegals cannot be more important than the children right? It's time to throw their rhetoric back in their faces.

phrogg111
12-19-2012, 11:42 AM
Certainly a better task for them, here at home, than to be sent to combat in the oil fields.

Oil fields? There wasn't much oil when I was in Iraq and Afghanistan. We sure as heck aren't making money over there, or saving our economy, that's for sure.

211275
12-19-2012, 11:43 AM
That is stupid, you dont need the national guard, policemen will do just fine. The middle and high schools I went to had a lot of problems with drugs and violence. They beefed up security who rode around in golf carts. They armed with pepper spray and handcuffs. They also had two fully armed policemen on campus every day. The squad car sat outside and they also had one or two who patrolled around on bikes. Everything died down real quick after that. Problem is, Sandy Hook had only had one homicide in 10 year, so who would think there would be a need for something like that there? Bottom line is you are not going to be able to prevent bad things happening everytime and everywhere.

nothinghere2c
12-19-2012, 11:44 AM
this is martial law, and people don't see it lol

jrock
12-19-2012, 12:09 PM
Armed private guards and metal detectors at entrances...plus ccw teachers if trained.
But, evil finds a way.
Maintenance worker, foodie, ...

sunborder
12-19-2012, 12:39 PM
I suppose if you told the teachers they could get a raise if they went through a training program and carried they'd be all over it.

I'd happily do so without the raise. So would at least 4 others at my work site, and dozens of other teachers I've worked with.

How about starting at the boarder.

Yes, because the National Guard should keep out those who don't know how to properly use the English language...or were you referring to stationing them at surf shops?

LMTluvr
12-19-2012, 1:17 PM
Not a good use of the Guard. Also, just because you are in the Guard, doesn't mean you are good with your weapon or know the laws.

Get rid of gun free zones, allow teachers who have ccw's to carry.

I have read LEO's against this because the bad person may get the concealed weapon from the teacher, this is true. But, you don't think they would get it from a person who's weapon they could see, versus one that is supposed to be unknown.

Also, I spent some time in the Guard, my wife too. Met a few people in the Guard that probably should not be armed in the school.

I wasn't brave enough to go there. Not to mention some of the gang members who were just never caught and documented as gang members before they enlisted. Just the kind of person we need guarding a school. :/

LMTluvr
12-19-2012, 1:20 PM
this is martial law, and people don't see it lol

Knee jerk feel good reactions. How's it go?
" Those who sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither" ?

It's gonna be an interesting day when all these chuckleheads running around talking about bans, restrictions and giving up freedoms realize there's no recourse when the politicians get to cutting a freedom they DO care about.

CessnaDriver
12-19-2012, 1:22 PM
It's going to be a huge amount of concentration on 1% of the problem of protecting children.

http://cdn.ammoland.com/files/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Firearms-Less-Accidental-Fatalities-Among-Children.jpg

srt4geezer
12-19-2012, 1:24 PM
If this was happening all over the place I could see taking measures to secure schools, but one dude does something & the entire country has to take immediate action? Complete lunacy.

CessnaDriver
12-19-2012, 1:27 PM
If this was happening all over the place I could see taking measures to secure schools, but one dude does something & the entire country has to take immediate action? Complete lunacy.

And some simple damn common sense that is cheap would cover it.
A few trained volunteers with access to the right tools (firearms) would be all that is needed. No different then preparing for fires or knowing CPR.

This is Obamerica though, idiocy abounds.

BroncoBob
12-19-2012, 1:37 PM
A lot of people are throwing all kinds of ideas out to see which stick on the wall and which don't. IMHO Boxer is a moron

Dr.Lou
12-19-2012, 3:19 PM
How about making POST training and certification (full scale police training) an available component of the teacher training programs? Then pay THOSE teachers comparably to police officers. So they'd actually be fully trained and vetted LE, but whose primary purpose is teaching.

The corollary is that in CA, even police officers are sometimes expected to disarm on campus. :facepalm:

Barbara Boxer is, and always has been dumb as a box. Having children spend their entire youth in a militarized environment is probably a bad idea and in any event will never be implemented in CA, short of a full scale foreign invasion.

Can you name one campus?

Aldemar
12-19-2012, 3:24 PM
How about making POST training and certification (full scale police training) an available component of the teacher training programs? Then pay THOSE teachers comparably to police officers. So they'd actually be fully trained and vetted LE, but whose primary purpose is teaching.

The corollary is that in CA, even police officers are sometimes expected to disarm on campus. :facepalm:

Barbara Boxer is, and always has been dumb as a box. Having children spend their entire youth in a militarized environment is probably a bad idea and in any event will never be implemented in CA, short of a full scale foreign invasion.

I like this idea.....if the schools were actually safer than their neighborhoods, perhaps the children would stick around and actually learn something.

winnre
12-19-2012, 3:26 PM
Didn't we learn from Kent State?

Aldemar
12-19-2012, 3:27 PM
A lot of people are throwing all kinds of ideas out to see which stick on the wall and which don't. IMHO Boxer is a moron

Yeah, this is one of those "things" where if a politician doesn't come forth with some kind of an idea, they are afraid they will be criticized at election time.

I'm sure there will be many more ideas tossed against the wall now that Uncle Joe is in charge of fixing this;)

theneko
12-19-2012, 4:03 PM
Screw Boxer, just do this-
http://www.modbee.com/2012/12/19/2502133/marine-stands-guard-in-front-of.html

MaHoTex
12-19-2012, 4:05 PM
California spends $50,000 a year for each prisoner. How about we spend less on criminals to strengthen campus security?How about cutting illegal entitlement? Illegals cannot be more important than the children right? It's time to throw their rhetoric back in their faces.

^ I LOVE IT!

CBruce
12-19-2012, 4:07 PM
Barbara Boxer Suggests using the national Guard to "augment" local LE in keeping schools safe.

NOW...Does our national Guard at elementary, secondary and high schools make us a Police State?

I thought the idea of a trained, competent, adult carrying a firearm at school was an abhorent notion. It's okay if they're police or national guard, but not a civilian teacher or administrator?

nick
12-19-2012, 4:14 PM
She does know that National Guard is part-time, right? nah, probably not.

CBruce
12-19-2012, 4:16 PM
Not a good use of the Guard. Also, just because you are in the Guard, doesn't mean you are good with your weapon or know the laws.

Get rid of gun free zones, allow teachers who have ccw's to carry.

I have read LEO's against this because the bad person may get the concealed weapon from the teacher, this is true. But, you don't think they would get it from a person who's weapon they could see, versus one that is supposed to be unknown.

Also, I spent some time in the Guard, my wife too. Met a few people in the Guard that probably should not be armed in the school.

I'm far more concerned about a curious child or emotional teen getting a hold of a teacher's CCW than any of the rare incedents where a killer brings guns onto school property. Both are unlikely, but the former is just more likely than the later. To be frank, this shouldn't be the job of a teacher. They have enough to worry about without needing the situational awareness, firearm discipline, and extra training needed to be able to safely carry and effectively use a firearm for the defense of their classroom.

I'm fine with dedicated, armed security outside of the classroom itself and/or firearms in an isolated an secure location out of immediate reach of the kids (ie, securely locked in adminstration offices). The mere precense of firearms on school property would be a significant deterrent for rampage killers in itself. I'm not convinced it's necessary for individual teachers. Exchanging one small risk for a slightly larger risk, imo.

winnre
12-19-2012, 4:19 PM
She does know that National Guard is part-time, right? nah, probably not.

So are schools when you think about it... 8am to 3pm most the year with plenty of holidays.

How about reservists do it for drill points?

gorenut
12-19-2012, 4:22 PM
It's going to be a huge amount of concentration on 1% of the problem of protecting children.

http://cdn.ammoland.com/files/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Firearms-Less-Accidental-Fatalities-Among-Children.jpg

Yea. It is definitely a tragedy when it happens, but I've had to debate with a lot of my friends who are either in the middle or anti-gun about these mass shootings. These shootings are but a very small blip in how people die, especially considering how many gun owners there are. Here is a look at the numbers:

The U.S. has the highest gun ownership rate in the world.

GUN OWNERSHIP PER 100 PEOPLE

1. United States - 89
2. Yemen - 55
3. Switzerland - 46
4. Finland - 45
5. Serbia - 38

--------------------------------------------

Despite the high number of guns, because of its large population, the U.S. does not have the worst firearms murder rate.

GUN MURDERS PER 100,000 PEOPLE

1. Honduras - 69
2. El Salvador - 40
3. Jamaica - 39
4 Venezuela - 39
5. Guatemala - 35

The United States ranks 28th, with a rate of 3 per 100,000 people


Much of the fault belongs to the damned vultures just trying to get a scoop and whipping everyone into a mania for ratings.

Looking at the numbers.. its also clear that it's indeed false when the media keeps reporting that "majority" of Americans want strict gun control. It most definitely does seem like more are against it because we're getting concentrated blasts through media and the internet.. but just think of all the people who don't frequent the internet or are heard through the media.

hakcenter
12-19-2012, 5:19 PM
How about we get rid of VICTIMS HERE sign and remove all the happy feel good gun free zones for starters.

How about some more liberty, and less tyranny ?

The answer to protecting those children is to understand that criminals commit crimes. They disregard the law, because they are criminals, and disarming law abiding citizens only makes more victims.



People waste so much energy and emotion on crap that doesn't matter nor will ever help. Save the children they all say, but their actions dictate that they would still rather have more victims.

Why is it that the majority of all mass shootings occur in gun free areas ? Did the gun free force fields not work ? :facepalm:

This all reminds me of that future cop movie, the only way to stop a criminal before they commit a crime is to know the future. Which no one I know does. So the next best thing we can do is stop them during the act and hope that we were in time.

nick
12-19-2012, 5:25 PM
So are schools when you think about it... 8am to 3pm most the year with plenty of holidays.

How about reservists do it for drill points?

That's better. Me, I wouldn't want to spend all this time away from my actually paying job (as opposed to what NG pays me) on spoiled princess Boxer's whim.