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DaveN007
12-17-2012, 5:09 PM
This thread is for those patient types who enjoy answering the same question over and over again. ;) Someone who likes sharing his knowledge. :)

I have searched extensively but am a bit confused...

I have been "out of the loop" for the past decade or more, although I faithfully head out to Sac Valley Shooting Center once a year to shoot and pay my membership fee for the year. It is sort of the principle of the thing. :D My life has been dedicated to raising a brood of kids and getting them comfortable with airguns as a starter. I am hoping that one of the resident experts here can quickly help me understand the state of the rules that need to be considered.

First, my AR...

I have a Bushmaster I purchased in 1999 (post ban), and registered in 2000/2001. I have the letter from the DOJ confirming registration, a copy of my original application with certified mail receipt, etc. (Interesting tidbit...my certified receipt shows DEC 27,2000...and DOJ letter is dated March 26, 2001...deadline was supposed to be 1/23/2001...so the date on the letter does not equal registration date if things were not confusing enough.)

I also have a "supply" of 30 round magazines purchased in the late 90's. Oh, yes...I have receipts.

How might I be afoul with the law today?

Is a LEO in the forest going to freak out because my rifle uses detachable magazines...30 rounders, no less? I carry my docs in a zip lock bag to the range and have never had anyone say a word to me aside from "nice rifle".

I mounted a new bull barrel upper on the rifle at some point. Bare stainless. No "features".

Any issues?

Next: My Keltec SU-16

Same 30 round magazines from 1990s (with receipts), but used in my SU-16 that didn't exist when I bought the mags. Issues?


Finally: My Ruger Mini 14 ranch rifle from 1992 with a Ruger factory 20 round magazine. Any issues?

Oh yeah: Springfield M1A Scout rifle with a 20 round magazine purchased (receipt) before Scout was available....originally for earlier M1A.

My thoughts: Ironically my best bet for a day in the forest might be the AR with mags and documentation. Am I wrong? The SU16 might get me into a chicken and egg argument. Same with Ruger. Same with M1A.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts. :patriot:

stix213
12-17-2012, 5:15 PM
Sounds like you're all good unless you've got evil features such as a flash hider on the M1A, Mini, or SU16.

See the "CA Semiauto Ban" flowchart at the top of every page, under the Flowcharts & OLL drop down. Just follow the flowchart for each of your non-RAW rifles.

Your RAW the only thing I'd worry about is you have more restrictive transportation requirements.

DaveN007
12-17-2012, 6:12 PM
Sounds like you're all good unless you've got evil features such as a flash hider on the M1A, Mini, or SU16.

See the "CA Semiauto Ban" flowchart at the top of every page, under the Flowcharts & OLL drop down. Just follow the flowchart for each of your non-RAW rifles.

Your RAW the only thing I'd worry about is you have more restrictive transportation requirements.

That jogs my memory. I will look into the rule regarding locked containers and "specified locations".

The flow chart seems to kick me into the green zone right away. I agonized over registering at the time like a lot of folks.

pMcW
12-17-2012, 6:30 PM
...I also have a "supply" of 30 round magazines purchased in the late 90's. Oh, yes...I have receipts.

How might I be afoul with the law today?

...


Next: My Keltec SU-16

Same 30 round magazines from 1990s (with receipts), but used in my SU-16 that didn't exist when I bought the mags. Issues?


Finally: My Ruger Mini 14 ranch rifle from 1992 with a Ruger factory 20 round magazine. Any issues?

Oh yeah: Springfield M1A Scout rifle with a 20 round magazine purchased (receipt) before Scout was available....originally for earlier M1A.

...Am I wrong? The SU16 might get me into a chicken and egg argument. Same with Ruger. Same with M1A.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts. :patriot:

When the rifles were made has no bearing on whether you can use pre-existing standard capacity magazines with them. I cannot predict what the ranger in the forest will think or do, but it is perfectly legal to use standard capacity magazines that you already had before the ban in any featureless (see flow chart) rifle, no matter how new. You should be especially good to go if you have the receipts for the magazines.

If you had a newly designed rifle that used mags specifically designed for that rifle, that might be a different debate.

bwiese
12-17-2012, 6:51 PM
First, my AR...

I have a Bushmaster I purchased in 1999 (post ban), and registered in 2000/2001. I have the letter from the DOJ confirming registration, a copy of my original application with certified mail receipt, etc. (Interesting tidbit...my certified receipt shows DEC 27,2000...and DOJ letter is dated March 26, 2001...deadline was supposed to be 1/23/2001...so the date on the letter does not equal registration date if things were not confusing enough.)

You are fine. You FILED on time within the time window. That's all that was necessary, and you actually got your reg in a reasonable processign time.


I also have a "supply" of 30 round magazines purchased in the late 90's. Oh, yes...I have receipts.

Cool, but burden of proof is on prosecution to prove you ILLEGALLY acquired them, and there's no duty of yours to prove you LEGALLY acquired them. Calguns Foundation will support you if drama occurs - we've done this before and gotten legit folks' mags back.


How might I be afoul with the law today?


You're clean and fine. You have a reg'd AW, and you separately have hicap mags that can be used in the gun.

Transport your RAW locked and unloaded only between specific destinations (your house, the range, out-of-state). There are many legal places you could envision as your specific destination if you figure out where your nose is pointing. I have changes of clothes with me and I have been known to break out in a spontaneous Reno trip ;-)



Is a LEO in the forest going to freak out because my rifle uses detachable magazines...30 rounders, no less? I carry my docs in a zip lock bag to the range and have never had anyone say a word to me aside from "nice rifle".


You need express permission (i.e, from management not the local ranger or office clerkP) to use RAWs. Ordinary shooting ranges etc are fine - but state forests etc. may be problems. However, for most BLM land in A you already have publicly documented permission from the Director of Region 5 (summer 2003) to use RAWs. Magazine status irrelevant with RAWs as long as mags are legally possessed. You can shoot a RAW wherever you can shoot a gun on BLM land (i.e, if you can't shoot due to fire or other safety reasons, you can't shoot a RAW either - duh.)

I mounted a new bull barrel upper on the rifle at some point. Bare stainless. No "features".
Any issues?


Nope, enjoy it.


Next: My Keltec SU-16

Same 30 round magazines from 1990s (with receipts), but used in my SU-16 that didn't exist when I bought the mags. Issues?

None. You can use hicap mags in any firearm that legally accepts a detachable mag.

[i.e., if you have a 'BulletButton maglock', then you must use a 10rd or less magazine]


Finally: My Ruger Mini 14 ranch rifle from 1992 with a Ruger factory 20 round magazine. Any issues?


Dunno what you mean by 'ranch'. Some Mini14s came with factory folder stock and pistol grip, use a detachable magazine and are gonna be considered AWs and should have been registered, like your Bushmaster AR, in 2000. Mini14 GBs with regular stock are considered AWs since they have a flash hider; these also need to be reg'd as AWs unless and until the flash hider is removed and replaced with a muzzle brake, thread protector or left bare. If you have a FH on your Mini, REMOVE IT NOW.

Otherwise if you have a plain stocked Mini14 and no flash hider you should be OK. Please double check that the rifle is at least 30" min. overall length - if not, put a lengthening muzzle attachment and/or buttpad on fairly securely so they wouldn't accidentally fall off in the back of a patrol car ;-)

If the gun is legit and allows detachable mags, go ahead and use your hicaps.


Oh yeah: Springfield M1A Scout rifle with a 20 round magazine purchased (receipt) before Scout was available....originally for earlier M1A.


I'm confident this rifle is over 30" overall length. I believe it has a muzzle brake (or bare muzzle). If it has a flash hider, remove it providing the overall length doesn't go below 30". If it does take the barreled action out of the stock so it is a non-rifle first.

garand1945
12-17-2012, 7:51 PM
If you don't want to deal with all the regulations for transporting and using a RAW, you could always buy another lower and use it with your upper. Just don't use your mags unless you go featureless. Bullet button is 10 round ONLY.

Ron-Solo
12-17-2012, 8:40 PM
Regarding the "Ranch" rifle, Ruger used to market the Mini-14 with scope rings as the Ranch model. Other than that, it was the same as any other Mini-14.

Just don't put a pistol grip or folding stock, or a flash hider on it and you are fine with your 20 round magazines. Those features make your rifle "evil" and kick in assault weapon status.

Omega13device
12-17-2012, 9:22 PM
You may find this useful: FAQ on CA RAWs (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=197295)

GOEX FFF
12-18-2012, 1:21 AM
While you aren't required to prove anything with receipts...for the folks who don't have receipts for mags they bought over 12+ years go, it would be obvious if you have a RAW you most likely had the magazines to go with it back then too.

MANY folks in CA also bought TONS of magazines before SB23 took effect.
(we all know how a looming ban spikes sales) Even buying >10+ magazines for firearms they didn't even own then, saving them for the future, knowing that they won't ever be able to import, or manufacture them in the state again.

mrdd
12-18-2012, 3:43 AM
Oh yeah: Springfield M1A Scout rifle with a 20 round magazine purchased (receipt) before Scout was available....originally for earlier M1A.

I'm confident this rifle is over 30" overall length. I believe it has a muzzle brake (or bare muzzle). If it has a flash hider, remove it providing the overall length doesn't go below 30". If it does take the barreled action out of the stock so it is a non-rifle first.

The stock of the M1A is over 30" by itself, so yes, the rifle is going to be over the statutory minimum when assembled with or without any muzzle device.

DaveN007
12-19-2012, 4:18 PM
Thanks for all of your thoughtful replies. :cheers2: